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June 4th, 2012
05:43 PM ET
We don't teach hate, says church where anti-homosexual song filmedBy Ismael Estrada, CNN Greensburg, Indiana (CNN) - About 20 protesters gathered on Sunday outside the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle here to voice opposition to a viral online video that was taped in the church and shows a young child singing song with lyrics that offer a harsh message for homosexuals. The video, which surfaced on YouTube last week, shows a child in front of the congregation, singing "I know that God is right, and somebody's wrong... ain't no homo going to make it to heaven." The congregation erupts in applause at those lines, which the unidentified boy repeats as the pastor looks on. At another point in the video a voice is heard shouting,"That’s my boy." CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories In the first Sunday service since the video surfaced, congregants arrived to the church as protesters jeered them over the video. A church leader, who would not give his name, told CNN that journalists were not allowed inside the church and declined to offer anyone from church leadership to comment on the video. The leader said that he needed to be cautious about letting outsiders into the church because it had received threats over the video and asked CNN to leave the premises. Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral online The local sheriff's office said the church had not reported any verifiable threats. No one answered the door at the home of Jeff Sangl, the church's pastor. The video of the singing boy was the latest in a string of viral anti-gay videos that have surfaced from independent churches. Those videos have been resoundingly condemned by religious leaders, even by conservatives who believe homosexual sex is a sin. The Apostolic Truth Tabernacle posted a statement on its website that says in part: "The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason.” The pastor's son, Josh Sangl, told CNN his father was away on vacation and that there was much more to the video than we were being told, though he wouldn’t elaborate. The majority of the church members wouldn’t comment about the controversy or respond to questions about the parents of the young boy. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter "I think it's blown out of proportion, you know," said Robert Kirby, who is not a church member but was attending Sunday's church service in support of his daughter, who teaches Sunday School there. "They love everybody. "They don't love sin though," he said. "It's all in the Bible." soundoff (3,151 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Evangelical – Where does the Bible condemn h o m o s e x u a l i t y? We are all children of God, gay and straight.
You can start by Leviticus and carry it through the NT. Read Paul's Letter to the Romans.
leviticus 20:13.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
sound like christians are supposed to love g.ays to you?
Bootyfunk – You quoted Leviticus as condemning h o m o s e x u a l i t y because the Scripture says, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is an abomination." As a gay man, I do not have s e x with women, I have s e x with men. Thus, I do not lie with mankind as with womankind. This Scripture was not intended to condemn h o m o s e x u a l i t y.
By the way, Leviticus also forbids wearing clothes made of two fabrics and says we should stone children who disrespect their parents. You had better check your closet and supply of stones.
Evangelical – Paul's letter to the Romans needs to be read in context in order to understand what it is really saying. In Romans 1:21-28, Paul talks about people who refused to acknowledge and glorify God (v. 21), the worshipping of idols (v23), people who were more interested in earthly pursuits than spiritual pursuits (v.25), people who gave up their natural, innate passion for the opposite s e x in search of pleasure (v. 26-27), and people who live lives full of covetousness, malice, envy, and hatred of God (v. 29-31).
H o m o s e x u a l i t y is a natural part of human s e x u a l i t y (for verification, check out the APA website). This reference is talking about h e t e r o s e x u a l people who gave up their natural orientation to have s e x with people of the same gender in what Paul calls, "Their search for pleasure." It is not talking about gay people who naturally are attracted to people of the same gender.
*** leviticus 20:13.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:
-----------------------------------------------
Interesting text. If read correctly it actually says man with man is an abomination
man with woman is an abomination.
Both of them have commited an abomination.
But again, pick and choose, and interpret what you want to believe.
Do you also know that Leviticus was written for Jews by Jews, and the rest of us
do not have to follow it ?
I didnt think so.
I still have the Bible I was given on the occasion of my confirmation in the Presbyterian Church, and it still says, ". . . judge not, lest ye be judged", and there is also something in there about not making a public spectacle of your faith.
Does it still have the marks on it from where they beat all of the sense out of you with it?
Having a Bible does not mean a thing unless you read it. Sounds like you are casting stones. You don't judge His Church... the LORD does that! By the way, He will judge you and everyone who was, is, and will be. You can't claim ignorance when you stand before Him if you have that Bible. Read it! Repent!
@John
Prove your assertions or stop appealing to fear to try and validate something that you cannot give a real reason for believing.
America is a Christian country and therefore everyone should be required to be Christian or not allowed U.S. citizen.
Our founding fathers were Christians so respect it.
Absolute nonsense!
Obviously you dropped out of school before your junior high civics class. The US is not a christian country. It's a secular country.
your ignorance is endless
i don't believe he ever made it to school
Amen, brother!
here's some quotes from the founding fathers you might enjoy:
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved–the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Thomas Paine
gr33k you need help
Thanks Bootyfunk for setting Gk33 "straight" on his "American History". Some people just love to display their ignorance by unrestrained "foaming at the mouth" and making up things as they go.
@HawaiiGuest,
If you do not get your morality from God and the Bible, where do you get your.s from? Tell me that, and I will prove you wrong.
If your morality has to come from outside of yourself then you are not a moral person.....you are just a pathetic person scared into being moral.
You acquire morality through common sense and good will towards others. If you acquire morality from the bible you might as well give up your ability to think and reason.
We get it from out experience as human beings and from the golden rule. We would like to help other people because we ourselves would liked to be helped. Even animals do it, and they can't read.
I got it all by myself, I didn't need a sky boogie man and a book of fairy tales. I don't need to be threatened with eternal damnation to know right from wrong.
Apparently you do though. Doesn't seem like you learned your lessons very well either.
funny you think christians are more moral than atheists.
how much of the US is christian: 75%
US prisoners that are christian: 80%
how much of the US is non-religious: 12%
US prisoners that are atheist: 0.2%
according to the facts, if you are an atheist, you commit less crimes.
If your morality comes from within then anything you deem as moral becomes your morality. As long as you can reasonably and rationally prove it, it's moral. Under the age of two – you're not a person; In order to protect the human race and the earth it's okay to euthanize large groups of people; Moral absolutes are fictional and most are okay to break if culture permits and it proves beneficial.
I'm waiting for the next five to ten years when those are call themselves atheist are more intellectually honest and drop the moral pretending.
Many here on this post get their morals from their emotions not realizing that they are being seduced and lead by evil and lying spirits. They believe their set of morals are right...that is until someone else's clash with theirs.Truth is absolute, and the Heavenly Father had to set standards and commandments for mankind to follow for we are sinful and wicked. Just like an earthly father sets rules for his children, so does the Heavenly Father sets rules for His children. Without those rules, standards, and commandments being in place, I believe His wrath would've come already.
Eva, your ignorance of human history would be astounding, except it's you, and I already know you're completely idiotic. Morality predates Christianity and the Bible. It's subjective and varies from one culture to another. It isn't the province of Christians or even of believers of any stripe. If you had even a limited understanding of history and culture, you'd know that. Furthermore, our laws are not based on morality but on ethics. If you don't know the difference, then look it up and stop wallowing in your ignorance.
Jesus is in the backyard playing with the unicorns.
possibly. unicorns are in the bible. along with dragons, satrys and c.cokatrice - oh my!
Bootyfunk...No unicorns, but there are demons like the ones that possess you. Repent!
Job 39:9-12
King James Version (KJV)
9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?
12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?
I pity the child for being in an environment where that's the only worldview he is taught.
Religion in and of itself is not to blame. It is peoples INTERPRETATION and DISTORTION of religion that is at fault.
Every holy book was written by humans. Humans are flawed creatures, therefore holy books can be wrong.
But the message comes through for those who look hard enough, and ignore what is obviously dated and hateful.
@HawaiiGuest,
If you do not get your morality from God and the Bible, where do you get yours from? Tell me that, and I will prove you wrong.
Ummm... duh! From common sense! If you have to read a book to know what hurts other people, or yourself, you haven't the brains of a gander. You don't think people had "morals" before your religion came along?
If you are relying on any externals to make you moral, then you are by definition not a moral person......just a scared one.
Ah, but you see, everyone has their own idea of what "common sense" is. Maybe it is common sense to cheat on your taxes?
I get my morality from the teachings of my parents as well as other good people i associate with, not from books with fictional stories for me to follow. Prove me wrong.
Humans know morality without the magic of God or Jesus or whomever. We atheists have no need to make up nonsense or hateful rules.
does the bible say anything about cheating on taxes?
No, Dorothy, making up your own morality is no morality at all.
Evangelical, the concept known as the Golden Rule is not the property of Christians. It is seen in societies and cultures world wide, through many ages. Ever here of the Greek Philosophers? The Golden Rule is enough to provide everyone in the community with smooth sailing. The fact that you imagine that it is solely a Christian Buy Bull concept only points to the sheltered life you have led, staring into the same pages, over and over again, reinforcing your indoctrination.
Of course it is. That's what you do, Eva.
@Evangelical – Your book has morals? Like killing people who work on Sundays? Taking slaves? Your book's morals, are what most people in America consider detestible.
@Evangelical
If it is an action that will marginalize, disparage, or in any way reduce the rights of another, then it is an immoral act.
@ jungleboo
I think it could be gman from the baptist minister bigot "here's what the bible says about hating gays" article of last week.
IF there were a God he/she would be horrified by any single one of you so called Christian. You are so hypocrite that you would all rot in hell, IF there were one. I have good news for you...there's no hell. The bad news? All your attempts to make my life miserable like yours are not working.
Atheists/Non-Christians will burn in hell anyway.... don't know why us beloved Christians care about them.
Linda/Toronto – There are many gay Christians. I am one of them.
Oh yes, God who is all about love for ALL his children, righteous and unrighteous, is going to suddenly torture you in death. You're doing the exact same thing Satan is doing. Calling into question God's integrity, which makes you no worse than he. Basically, you just said God tortures his own children in fiery burning worlds. That's totally against everything the Bible explains of him. Tsk tsk tsk.
if i don't go to Hell, i'll miss all my friends...
plus i want to talk to ghandi and john lennon.
Wow. Please tell me more about the love, tolerance, and forgiveness. Oh, wait; those are just silly ideas tossed around by that guy...what was his name? Oh, yeah; Jesus. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Christianity...
Linda, I hereby OUT you as a Troll. No one could possibly post what you have written and mean it..."Atheists/Non-Christians will burn in hell anyway.... don't know why us beloved Christians care about them."
And aren't you just the perfect example of your loving god.
that's the point...you don't care (even though you should...just by reading the bible)
I'd choose to burn in hell long before I'd become one of the bigotted christians.
Linda, God put gay people on earth as a test for christians.
You FAILED that test.
You have no right to judge Gods creatures.
Now who is going to hell ?
This country frightens me more every day, and I'm not even gay.
Yeh! Try being gay... Xtians have used their majority rule, their imaginary sky daddy, to rule with an iron fist. Their self righteous, hatred, has turned our country into a dreadful place to live.
I have an idea! If all of these churches feel they should say who should get married and who is going to heaven or hell. Why doesn't OUR government start making them pay taxes? Man if you mention money they would shut their mouths. They love cheerful givers, but they wouldn't feed or help someone if there wasn't something in it for them. They make me sick!!!
The child was singing and dancing to the words of a song he created? Hmmmmm......statistically I would say that he was singing about his future self.
Casey,
The Bible is quite clear. If you are looking to external sources, then you are guilty of heresy.
Evangelical – Where does the Bible condemn h o m o s e x u a l i t y?
You do understand what it means to reference the reference?
The Bible is the complete inspired Word of God. All external sources are uninspired hearsay.
Coocoo
Evangelical thinks it is god's personal assistant and public relations manager.
*** Evangelical
The Bible is the complete inspired Word of God. All external sources are uninspired hearsay.
--------------------------------------–
Wow, you got an autographed copy.
Religion has enough problems. Why do they insist on giving themselves a black eye every other day? Seems the congregations are bent on being even farther removed from any resemblance of sanity. The churches of today are creating their own negative image.
I don't think they're doing anything different than they ever did. Just that technology is exposing it.
Makes it tough to find converts, I would imagine....
atheists are mad because they know God exist but won't admit it until last minute before death!
"atheists are mad because they know God exist"
Did you recently receive a sharp blow to the head?
Have you perchance looked up the meaning of the word "atheist"?
Christard Fallacy #168........Atheists are made because a god exists.
That doesn't even make any sense.
Look up "atheist". Websters is your friend.
Seriously, folks...
Seeing as how tricky god can be in the bible, Job, Isaac's son sacrifice ,not returning to earth (Mathew 24:31-35) when he said Wouldn't it be a scream if he created g a ys just to test the righteous and sent the so called believers to h el l for persecuting h o m o s e x u a l s
Except that it is clearly written that ho-mos-exuality is an abomination.
Nope.
Religion is becoming a huge problem in this world. People are becoming so reliant on a book because of their lack of education and willingness to understand, and if they actually READ the bible from its true scrolls, they would realize that no one goes to Heaven, and that there is no Hell. Only the 144,000 chosen will go, and the rest of the "flock" will be spending an eternity on Earth. There is no Hell. It's called MAN'S COMMON GRAVE according to the true scrolls. Then you are either sent to Sheol or Gehenna. One is where if you are sent, you will never be resurrected, and the other is where you will. There is no fiery torture because God does not condone such things. It's prejudice to think God would torture his own children when he symbolizes love. Just remember, Satan has no place to call his own. Read Revelations carefully. Satan was cast out of heaven along with his demons (1/3rd of the heavens). He was not sent to Hell where he could set up some sort of "torture shop". He was sent to Earth as a wandering spirit, and knows his time is coming to an end, so he's just here willing to take as many people with him before he is sealed up for the 1000 years. In that time, peace will commence, and then, like Adam and Eve, God will issue a final test to the righteous and unrighteous. That is why Satan will be loosed from his Prison after 1000 years had ended. It will be God's Final Judgment to see if you are worthy of a perfect life. That is why Jesus sacrificed himself. Only a perfect person can undo a perfect's sin. Adam and Eve's sin was made when they were perfect, which means even though they were perfect, they could still be tempted. And that will be the final test after the 1000 years for us. If we are tempted, we are unworthy. Now you know. Go read the G.D. Encyclopedia Britannica and the true scrolls of the bible. Always remember, that these bibles that are mass produced have all been reworded and anything that may scare the general population was taken out of it. The bible is a book of many wrongdoings, but only 1/3rd of the truth was written in them because of fear. Now you know. Go nuts.
You obviously haven't ever read the Bible.
Actually I have, and just remember that they merged Pagan belief into christianity. What you interpret is nothing more than Pagan and Christian co-belief, which fills your mind full of lies. Do you even know God's real name? Or what his name even stands for? And it's not just in one particular religion where his name was revealed. Read the true bible, Encyclopedia Britannica, and the true scrolls. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
@ RealGirard
Yours is a typical response when you can't actually come up with an intelligent answer.
My ex husband was an atheist and thank God I left him. He was not tolerant of my faith that maniac.
And did your faith include attempting to convert him all the time? Normally, intolerance and disbelief do not go together, but sometimes it does. If you were in constant conversion mode though, that can breed resentment and intolerance toward you and not necessarily the religion.
You do realize, of course, that according to that god you're thanking you should be put to death as an unfaithful wife for leaving your husband? But then, his atheism was clearly unreasonable...
Yes, someone sane would have a difficult living with someone who was insane (him being the sane one of course).
Which has exactly what to do with this news item?
Your ex husbang is the lucky one.
I'm going to let you in on a secret. I wrote the Bible. I am what Christians mistake for God. I was Jesus.
Put the Garden of Eden in Iraq? Me, because God wouldn't let me have a nice place like Tahiti. Made man with lots of faults and negatives? Me. Set him up with the apple thing – yeah, something I would do. Cursed all of mankind for eating an apple, yeah, guilt-by-association is my gig.
Came up with a book that had lots of weird sick rules and punishments? C'mon, you had to have figured out that wasn't the nice God!
I demand that you suck up to me in absolute obedience in life and for the rest of eternity . . . a real god would not be that shallow and narcissistic. I mean, c'mon, I got you to believe that the being with most of the dealy sins is God? Angry god? Jealous god? Covetous of the obedience of all humans? Envious? Prideful? The "god" you follow is everything he said was a sin! That ain't God; that's Satan!
Slaughter at Sodom and Gomorrah? Drowning the entire human race except for a drunk and his family? Would a god of love do that, or does that sound like . . . me?
Came to earth as Jesus to sow confusion and divide religion even more. Made sure the new book was really hard to interpret in one way so that there would be many branches that all hated and fought each other. Created a church of power-obsessed repressive men in dresses who hate everything . . . really now, how did yo think THAT was the nice God? Came up with other factions for some great wars and inquisitions and witch burnings and intolerance.
Convincing my followers that hatred of gays was actually a form of love . . . oh really, how obvious can I be and still have you fall for it.
I can't believe you let me get away with this! I would have thought it was obvious that you were worshiping Satan and not a nice God, but that stupid gene I put in most of you sure worked well! I even put it in my book that there would be false messiahs and gods, and you still couldn't see it!
So there it is. Christianity is actually the worship of Satan. Thanks!
Oh, by the way . . . heaven isn't what you think it is either. Spending eternity sucking up to the boss might not be as much fun as you think!
Now it all makes sense.
Very clever. You have many good points and proofs. I suppose the joke is on us. But why did you wait so long to inform us? Surely you grew bored with our stupidity eons ago. If only I'd known, I might have returned to the religion of MY ancestors, the Druids. The parties are so much better! Those desert types like Jesus, the apostles, and Muhammed just didn't know how to relate to the ladies!
The child was singing what it says in the Bible. How is that hate?
If you can't see that, then you have given up your humanity and morality.
Because wrong has become the "new" right and black has become the "new" white!
HawaiiGuest,
There is no morality without God and the Bible.
Evangelical – The Bible does not condemn h o m o s e x u a l i t y when it is put in historical and cultural context and read using reason, as Jesus did.
@Evangelical
Prove it.
Tell you what, Evangelical, we need to make a Good Song out of the following Scripture! I bet it would go viral on YouTube!!
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." - 1 CORINTHIANS 7:1 (KJV)
@Tell You,
Yes, the NT does say that celibacy is the best, most holy state.
Evangelical says: "Yes, the NT does say that celibacy is the best, most holy state."
That explains why you sound like a constipated old nun with hemorrhoids.
I am thinking Evangelical is an alternate screen name for another poster. The voice and tone is the same, very drained of energy and flaccid. Can't seem to remember who it sounds like. Anybody? Anybody? I'll give you 20 points if you can identify it.