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Vatican intensifying crackdown on American nuns
The Vatican and the American Catholic Church have issued three reprimands of Catholic nuns since last year.
June 5th, 2012
02:34 PM ET

Vatican intensifying crackdown on American nuns

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - The Vatican denies there's a connection, but its reprimand of an influential American nun, at a moment when the Holy See is already engaged in an intense fight with most American nuns, sends a clear message: The Catholic Church’s leaders think America’s nuns have gone rogue and must be reined in.

The Vatican on Monday censured Sister Margaret A. Farley, who teaches at Yale Divinity School, over a 2006 book she wrote that the church said is out of step with official church teaching on human sexuality.

Just weeks before, the Vatican issued a major report condemning the groups that represent most American nuns, saying those organizations had promoted “radical feminism” while neglecting teachings against homosexuality and abortion.

“The Vatican believes that there is a climate of dissent in some quarters of the women’s religious life in America,” said John Allen, CNN’s Vatican analyst. “They are trying to deal with that, and both these developments speak to that.”

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In its reprimand of Farley, the church focused on her book “Just Love: A Framework for Christian Sexual Ethics,” which it said condones masturbation and homosexuality.

“Masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action,” the church said in a statement Monday that characterized “homosexual acts” as “acts of grave depravity.”

The reprimand warned church officials not to use Farley’s book, raising eyebrows in Catholic circles because she is one of the country’s most respected female Catholic theologians.

The Rev. Brian Linnane, a Jesuit priest and president of Loyola University Maryland, did his doctoral work in theology under Farley.  He said the notification could have a chilling effect on academic freedom at Catholic institutions.

“There’s a sense that the vocation of the theologian is diminished in this notification to where it’s just, ‘Keep repeating what we’ve already said and don’t question it, don’t critique it, don’t try to help us make it more adequate.’  And I think that’s troubling,” he said.

Linnane said people who read the book knew that Farley was departing from Catholic teaching in certain areas.  

“She did not write a book about sexual practices.  She wrote a new framework to think about sexual ethics, which looks at justice, instead of procreation or abstinence, which have been part of the tradition,” he said.

“I don’t think it’s a question of right or wrong so much as I think it is of the ability to raise critical questions, to try and develop new understandings of the theological tradition and in this case of the moral tradition.”

Linnane said the Vatican is right to be sure that public ministers such as priests and nuns be on the same page doctrinally as the church leaders, and he noted the rebuke was specifically against the book, not the author.

“There’s no silencing of Sister Farley in the notification, there’s no threat to her membership in her religious community; it’s just about the book, which everyone agrees probably shouldn’t be taught in Catholic seminaries, certainly shouldn’t be taught in religious education classes for young persons. Everyone agrees it’s theological speculation,” he said.

The censure came days after the leadership that represents most American nuns concluded a meeting in Washington to devise a response to an April Vatican assessment that accused the nuns of hosting speakers who preached “radical feminism” at an annual gathering of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious. The group represents about 80% of American nuns.

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The report also said the nuns were too focused on social justice and not enough on opposing abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage.

The recent reprimands come about a year after U.S. Catholic bishops rebuked another nun, Sister Elizabeth Johnson at Fordham University, for her writings.

The bishops said that Johnson falsely claims the Catholic Church’s names are “metaphors that do not apply to the reality of God within the traditional Catholic understanding.”

“In the last 12 months you’ve seen two of America’s leading Catholic nuns who are theologians in the cross hairs,” Allen said. “I’m not sure there’s anyone left of their stature to go after.”

Many parts of the American nuns’ community and the Catholic academic world have come out swinging against the Vatican critiques. In a statement, Farley defended her work, saying it was not meant as an official church teaching.

Farley said she feared the Vatican “misrepresents (perhaps unwittingly) the aims of my work and the nature of it as a proposal that might be in service of, not against, the church and its faithful people.”

On Friday, the leaders of the American nuns whom the Vatican had criticized said the Holy See’s report was “based on unsubstantiated accusations and (was) the result of a flawed process that lacked transparency” and that the report had “caused scandal and pain throughout the church community.”

Representatives of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious are flying to Rome this week to try to chart a course forward with Vatican officials. Church experts said that the nuns could accept the assessment, negotiate or resign en masse and form a new group outside the watchful eye of the Vatican.

The reprimands originate from the Vatican’s powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict XVI led for decades before his elevation to the papacy.

In interviews conducted while he held that earlier post, Benedict spoke often about growing the church by pruning - becoming smaller but more devout before expanding.

It is hard to know what the reaction to the fight between American nuns and the Vatican is within the American Catholic community, but there have been some pockets of protest against the Vatican’s actions.

“It’s one thing when the Vatican goes after a theologian, because most rank-and-file Catholics don’t know any theologians,” Allen said. “But so many have been educated by sisters in a school, taken care of by a sister at a hospital or know a nun in their parish that is running the office."

He added, “When there’s a perception that sisters are under fire, there’s a tendency to support them.”

There is evidence that the reprimand against Farley has raised her profile as a theologian. Her "Just Love" was the best-selling religious studies book Tuesday on Amazon.com.

- CNN's Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Sexuality

soundoff (2,186 Responses)
  1. You are all sheep

    A lot of you take your fairy tales entirely too seriously.

    June 7, 2012 at 8:30 am |
  2. Burning Whizzer

    Nuns are so gross.

    June 7, 2012 at 1:50 am |
  3. alex

    keep those catholics on a tigh leash ya bunch of pedo priest

    June 6, 2012 at 10:50 pm |
  4. JuanV

    The Priesthood and the Convent seem to be respective hideouts for gays and lesbians.

    June 6, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • lostboy

      You must be a cowardly ho*o phobe. You will receive the respect you dish out, so don't be upset when you get JERKED around.

      June 9, 2012 at 10:40 pm |
  5. JuanV

    How do you crack down on a nun? They seem to be drawn to the vocation to satisfy some deep-seated psychosis.

    June 6, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
  6. Dennis

    Vatican takes up arms on the war on women

    June 6, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      You do know that the Obama administration supports a law allowing abortion based on the gender preference of the parents right? So millions of girls who would otherwise be born can now be aborted simply because they are the wrong gender. Now tell me again, who is perpetrating a war on women?

      June 11, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
  7. why?

    "THE SATYR"

    A satyr, is a creature of Greek mythology. It is supposed to be a man with a goat's legs, ears and horns.

    In the Old Testament we find reference to these mythical creatures as if they were real. In Isaiah 13:21 we read, "But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there."

    It's probably for text like this that the Catholic Church had forbidden people from reading the Bible! The Church leaders knew if this garbage was generally known, no one would be a Christian!

    June 6, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • Nilkinggary

      The Church didn't forbid anything. No one could read anyway Neil the Reformation and the printing press.

      June 6, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • why?

      @nikki
      alongside the Inquisition
      archives was the infamous Index of Forbidden Books,
      which Roman Catholics were forbidden to read
      or possess on pain of excommunication. They showed
      that even "the Bible" was once on the blacklist.
      Translations of the holy book ended up on the bonfires!

      June 6, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • why?

      along with other "heretical" works...The Index
      of Forbidden Books and all excommunications relating
      to it were officially abolished in 1966. The Inquisition
      itself was established by Pope Gregory IX in 1233...."

      having said that. The focus of my comment however is that SATYRS only exist Mythology books (which your bible was derived from), and Hollywood movies. There has never been any SATYR dancing anywhere!

      June 6, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • Indexed

      The Index to which you refer was established in 1559 and did not ban reading the Bible per se. It restricted translations and interpretations produced outside the Church. in any vent, no one either in or out of the Church has paid much attention to ths for centuries. Your protestations are overheated and perhaps willful misunderstandings.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • why?

      Indexed
      . typical Christian. Oh we said that but meant this. And we did this but meant that.
      admit it dude, there are no convictions in your "MAN WRITTEN" bible!

      June 6, 2012 at 10:51 pm |
  8. why?

    Unicorns?? – now there's something you wouldn't expect to find in the word of God! But it is! And not just one time but three times!

    In Isaiah 34:7 it is written, "And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls, and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness." Like the overwhelming majority of the Bible this is pure nonsense! Trying to tie the Bible to God is an insult to our real Creator!

    June 6, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • KJVScholar

      Your use of translated terms to establish a linkage beween mythology and the Bible is incorrect. The original Jewish terms used in Isaiah cannot be interpreted in this manner.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • Addulterized

      You've got to be kidding. Outside of the fanciful language of the King James Version, no one uses the words unicorn or satyr. You're just contriving stuff so you can grind your axes and vent whatever beefs you seem to have about Christianity.

      June 6, 2012 at 10:41 pm |
    • why?

      Then you're not looking in an original King James Version of the Bible. IT'S IN THERE! And it's not my translation. Thats what the "good books says" Now more recent versions of "the word of God" have changed these ridiculous creatures to more reasonable creatures, such as oxen, etc. but only because they knew readers with today's knowledge would see this for the rubbish that it is!
      you seem to be missing some facts there scholar!

      June 6, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
    • why?

      I didnt write it dude! If you're gonna get upset with someone, I suggest you get upset with those who wrote it!!!

      June 6, 2012 at 11:00 pm |
    • ElmerGantry

      @why?. Well done.
      I like the we said this but meant that.

      It's related to the look over there (at what we falsely say they are doing) and not here at what we are actually doing.

      aka the false mirroring disinformation tactic.

      June 6, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
    • why?

      Absolutely Elmer!
      And thanks for the encouragement!

      June 6, 2012 at 11:50 pm |
  9. guest

    What was that sister? The church abandon you and you are no longer a nun? Thats too bad, let me "comfort" you.

    June 6, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Heretic

      I wouldn't worry. A man called Galileo had a similar issue back in 1616, in that case because he disagree with the Catholic Church that the earth was the center of the Universe. Who come up with this stuff??

      June 6, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
  10. why?

    There are two different "10 Commandments" in the bible

    The First Tablets (Exodus 20)

    The Second Tablets (Exodus 34)

    1. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.

    1. [Y]ou shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

    2. You shall not make for yourself
    a graven image. [Y]ou shall not bow down to them or serve them.

    2. You shall make for yourself no molten gods.

    3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

    3. The feast of unleavened bread you shall keep.

    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    4. All that opens the womb is mine.
    [Sacrifice firstborn male animals to Yahweh.]

    5. Honor your father and your mother.

    5. Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest..

    6. You shall not kill.

    6. [Y]ou shall observe the feast of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering.

    7. You shall not commit adultery.

    7. You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.

    8. You shall not steal.

    8. [N]either shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left until the morning.

    9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    9. The first of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the LORD your God.

    10. You shall not covet.

    10. You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

    ISNT IT ODD, THAT IN 2 VERY DIFFERENT "10 COMMANDMENT" THERE IS NOT 1 COMMANDMENT, NOT 1, THAT SAY YOU SHALL NOT MOLEST CHILDREN!!

    NO COMMANDMENT TO PROTECT CHILDREN, YET THERE ARE COMMANDMENTS THAT PROTECT MEN, AND THEIR "PROPERTY"!!!

    WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT TO GOD?
    MATERIALS? OR THE LIFE AND WELL BEING OF OUR CHILDREN???

    THIS IS CLEAR INDICATION THAT THE BIBLE AND THE 10 COMMANDMENTS WERE WRITTEN BY MEN, AND FOR MEN!!!

    MAN GAVE YOU RELIGION, GOD GAVE YOU REASON!!
    USE IT!!!

    PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THE IMPOSTERS POSING AS MEN OF GOD!!!

    June 6, 2012 at 6:48 pm |
    • ElmerGantry

      BRAVO

      June 6, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
    • Nucklehead

      Thy shalt not forget the 11th Commandment: Don't be a dick.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Possessor

      If one were too read the New Testament, Christ Jesus says if one were too corrupt these litte one's, it were better if they were never born. Christ Jesus also says we should love God with all our heart's, minds, soul and strenght, and love neighbor as our selves. Since Christ Jesus IS God in the Flesh, and if you are able to add, those are 3 Commandments He gave us, in addition to the 10, His Most Loving of Father's gave us.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • why?

      Leviticus 25:44-46 reads, "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession!!

      LET ME REITERATE!!!

      THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY MEN FOR MEN, AND THEIR POSSESSIONS!!

      AND DISREGARDS CHILDREN!! THE BIBLE CAN'T SAY THAT ITS OKAY TO TAKE CHILDREN FROM THEIR FAMILIES, AND THEN RAISE THEM AS SLAVES. THEN CLAIM THE BIBLE CARES FOR CHILDREN!!

      THE BIBLE ONLY CARES FOR MEN, HENCE THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY MAN! NOT GOD!1

      June 7, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • yougottobekiddingme

      BRILLANT !! Great blog...

      June 8, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • lostboy

      Possessor....If it would be better if they were never born, why is god against abortion...Yep thats religion, have it both ways, weave a twisted story to confuse, and best of all, have faith, question nothing, and believe everything the church spews forth. with garbage like that, who needs a laxative !

      June 9, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
  11. Reality

    The bigger picture:

    Another crack in the foundation of the RCC as we march to the following:

    ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS OF THIS BLOG–

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity, the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" are converging these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    June 6, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • Deb Browell

      ....CLAP....CLAP.....CLAP.....CLAP....CLAP....CLAP....

      June 6, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
    • SpreadtheWord

      @Why

      How are you turning an article about nuns into something about pedophiles? You also have to read the NEW TESTAMENT to fully understand the old. At the time of the writing of the old testament, God's plan was to separate the Jews from the rest of the world so that they would not be corrupted by others. You also have to take into account at the time of the writing the taking of children as slaves as well as others was the way of the world like it or not. Now fast forward to the time of Jesus, where he started to clarify and at least in my opinion change some of the things because now times had changed. Suddenly, the gentiles were now to be ministered to, where before that was unheard of. Why did this happen? Because the people of the time of the New Testament were much different than the nomadic tribes of Judah in the Old Testament.
      Your arguments are nothing more than attacks of an angry man who only sees the Bible and the word as a bunch of words but truly doesn't understand them. As to the Church itself and the crimes it commits, that isn't God or Bible, that was committed by MEN who twisted the word to fit their aims. The inquisition and the crimes of the church of the time were committed by MEN and not God. I do feel sorry for you and I will pray that your anger abates and you quit seeing the Bible and the words printed within as words and look further into their meaning.

      June 7, 2012 at 4:27 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Spread

      So then god approves of situational and cultural ethics and morality?

      June 7, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • WHY?

      @spread the word!

      I mentioned nothing about "pedophiles"..
      what I mentioned was that the Bible is the word of "MEN" not "GOD". And its easy to see this because of the lack of regard for "CHILDREN", AND A VERY HIGH REGARD FOR MEN, AND THEIR PROPERTY!

      AND THE WORD OF "GOD" CANT BE CHANGED BY "OH THE TIMES WERE DIFFERENT THEN" ,ESPECIALLY IF YOU REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT TIMES AREN'T DIFFERENT NOW COMPARED TO 2000 YRS AGO.

      SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE MEANING OF YOUR BIBLE AGAIN TO FIT THE NEEDS OF THIS DAY AND AGE... OTHERWISE, YOU THEOLOGY, WILL BECOME MYTHOLOGY, LIKE ALL RELIGIONS OF THE PAST!!

      June 7, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • Reality

      Only for the those interested in a religious update:

      1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

      “New Torah For Modern Minds

      Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “

      prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

      2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

      The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

      earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

      For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

      Current RCC problems:

      Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

      2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

      Current problems:
      Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

      3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

      This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

      And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

      Current crises:

      The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

      4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

      The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

      Current problems:

      The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.

      5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

      "However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

      Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

      Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

      Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

      June 7, 2012 at 10:40 pm |
    • yougottobekiddingme

      Spreadtheword...If you are a man...you like that the bible is written only for the benefit of males. If your a woman, then your a pityful jerk, to believe in the words written by man to keep you in the shadows and in your place...

      June 8, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • lostboy

      Spreadtheword...this blog turned the story to one about peds because the pope is a hippocrite. Picking on the nuns when he does little to the molesting priests. He needs to get his ducks in a line.

      June 9, 2012 at 10:52 pm |
  12. why?

    GOD GAVE US "REASON"!!!
    MAN GAVE US RELIGION!!!

    WHO DO YOU TRUST?
    GOD?
    OR MAN?

    REASON?
    OR RELIGION?

    June 6, 2012 at 6:28 pm |
    • Reality

      A different view:

      The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (References used are available upon request.)

      June 6, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
    • yougottobekiddingme

      YOU REALLY need to look up 2 words...EXISTENTIAL NIHILISM....you and your god are nothing special !!

      June 8, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
  13. Kindness

    For you.
    A thought to consider without a typical ego response

    Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
    The world denounces truth....

    Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.

    Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.

    The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.

    Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.

    We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Let go and let god".
    It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .

    Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
    See the truth...
    do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..

    Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .

    Trancsend the temporal world.

    Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .

    Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing

    Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.

    Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....

    Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.

    You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.

    Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.

    I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .

    Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?

    Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.

    once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
    You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it

    You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
    I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
    Its awsome

    June 6, 2012 at 6:06 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      Kindness,

      Your words speak as volumes to my mind's eyes. A.A. has showed me the "Let Go- Let God" ideology. I am though not much for reading books. (Never was). God, to my thoughts, is the creator of all things manifested and all things evolved. He is the Creator of the Cosmos and its' ever evolving ways. He is the creator of all evolving life that finds its' maximum potential.

      We as a completed evolution of life's creativeness, are now held to and bonded into a sphere of gestation to either subdue our wants and pleasings in order to see survival of all life or its' total destructon by our deeds done and gone awry. I know not the answer but only its' questions for 'absolutism' to be the finality of mankind's empathies. As the tidal ambiances of the people's wills meander about in varigrated aimlessness, the waves of progressiveness rise higher and higher. Sooner then later will we know our ending days of which will come forth a unifying globalization for the beneficiaries' goodness' sakes.

      Religion will either become the riding force or it will become as a backseat driver. God must take the backseat if civilization is to learn on its' own regards.

      June 6, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • Deb Browell

      ...MAN, ENJOY YOUR FANTASY..or mushroom or whatever you take to create illusions...

      June 6, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • why?

      You're wrong!!
      . Evidence does not follow faith. Ignorance follows faith.
      Faith says the world is flat! ITS NOT!!
      Faith says the universe is 6000 yrs old!
      ITS NOT!! ITS 13.75 BILLION YRS OLD!!
      I COULD GO ON AND ON! BUT THERE IS NO CHANGING THE MINDS OF THE IGNORANT FEARING BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!! YOU WOULD RATHER BLINDLY, AND DANGEROUSLY DISREGARD FACTS, IN THE NAME OF YOUR OWN "FIRE-INSURANCE". THIS WILL COST YOU DEARLY!!
      DONT YOU THINK THIS HAS COST OUR CHILDREN ENOUGH SUFFERING???

      WAKE UP ZOMBIE!!

      June 6, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • yougottobekiddingme

      Your really getting quite pathetic with this blog over and over, did your mommy write it for you ?

      June 8, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
  14. A Serpent's Thought

    God is the Creator of the ever evolving Cosmos and God is the creator of all evolved life wherever it can be sustained within the Cosmos. I have no disputes with evolution as long as the creator is standing behind it!

    The Cosmos is made up of untold numbers of universes and our universe is but one in a proverbial haystack of universes. As you read this, there is most likely a universe being born amid the Cosmos and another nearing its' end. No one can say with certainty that our universe is all there is within the Cosmos. For one to say our universe is all there is within the Cosmos is saying so because of their closed mind. We will never see the ends of the Cosmos for it is so vast in size that light from the outermost reaches of the Cosmos will never reach our Earth's shores.

    Should creatively evolved life be led or should it lead? Maybe both? Or,,,,?

    June 6, 2012 at 6:01 pm |
    • uhh..

      There is no creator behind evolution. Unless your creator is death itself. For only does death and failed mutations shape what is alive today and what continues to thrive.

      June 7, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
    • sam stone

      How did a creator become a God?

      June 7, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • yougottobekiddingme

      How can you believe a creator is smashing planets, destroying stars, causing solar flares, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, etc. You think we are a little game for god, or perhaps a reality show for him. That logic is ridiculous. There is no supreme being playing, watching, destroying, and killing, for what purpose? you too need to look up EXISTENTIAL NIHILISM. TO BELIEVE IN A SINGLE CREATOR WHO OBVIOUSLY CATERS TO MEN. IS MIND-BOGGLING. Mankind has to be better than this !

      June 8, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
  15. Sherri

    I think the church in general should be a place to network, to donate for the causes of humanity, and to agree that we all just want to get along. It is not unlike society with the ills that come along with society. Keeping it in perspective or lack thereof leads to all this discussion that we will never agree on. The Ten Commandments should be posted in schools. Maybe children would not kill each other like we see so often now. We need a moral base but not a religion written by man that condemns you to hell. I am a good person and wish no harm to others and hope/pray for the same treatment. Respect... a little bit goes a long ways. The more the better... I just had to put my two cents in....

    June 6, 2012 at 5:51 pm |
    • yougottobekiddingme

      WRONG !! Religion has to be separate from all government, period. I am a Atheist and not a single penny of my tax dollars should be used for religion. I have the same right as you do, and you can't force religion on anyone. Why should the commandments be posted and not Islam or any other religion based material. You are way off on that comment honey, hang them in your house if you need them !

      June 8, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
  16. G

    Destroy the gays, destroy the feminists, destroy the marxists and march on to ZION.

    June 6, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • Deb Browell

      ...Why don't you march on to the nearest collage and get an education...your a sad example of a human...

      June 6, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
  17. John

    This is insane and the Vatican is pure evil! Religion is outdated and its followers are sheepple! Wake up people, stop following the insanity of religion and start believing in yourself, unless you like being controlled like puppets on a string!

    June 6, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • G

      Yes, let's all be Marxists and vote for gay rights! who's the sheeple??

      June 6, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • John

      G, you are the sheeple! K. Marx was a great man!

      June 6, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • G

      Aw gosh, the history books tell something else! My happy go-lucky friend!

      June 6, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I call troll on G. I don't know if anyone can be that stupid.

      June 6, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • G

      You can call warfare on a nickname in cyberspace my friend, if that's where your life is at...

      June 6, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • John

      What history books? The ones praising capitalism? Dude, you are a Troll!

      June 6, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Warfare? I'm merely pointing out my opinion that you are a troll.

      June 6, 2012 at 5:31 pm |
    • G

      'Troll'. Dude, Internet slang can kiss my @

      June 6, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • Deb Browell

      ....."BRAVO...FU*KING BRAVO".....

      June 6, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • why?

      @G

      Your stupidity breeds more stupidity. Im sure youre happy living in your trailer that has a flat tire, and wind chimes made of beer cans, and fishing string hanging from your front porch.. But while you sit in your living room filled with patio furniture, making snide remarks on your computer, and spewing your ignorance, without the slightest idea, of how ignorant you sound. I ask yo to remember this... these men who wrote the bible, did it with the intention of keeping you idle. All you do is what they taught you: hope and pray. If you would actually do something to achieve your goals, you might get somewhere. But I can honestly tell you that while sitting on your bum, with a prayer in one hand, and hope in the other, you will never achieve anything!

      Let go of your fairytales, and try to actually do something for yourself, your country, your planet!!!

      June 7, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
  18. Deb Browell

    ...STANDFORTHETRUTH....Please go back to your little room and play doctor with your little wienie. Your comments are degrading and sickening to say the least. You act like your so almighty above everyone else. You sit there judging everyone else, and I think your beliefs preach against that..

    June 6, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • G

      If you do not believe in God then all you have left is addiction to PENETRATION. That's why feminists like yourself want us to vote on gay rights. PENETRATION is DHARMA for fallen ones.

      June 6, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • Deb Browell

      OH YOUR SO WRONG....I have so much more than you.. I am "FREE" !to make my own choices, love whoever I want, being kind, respectful, loyal, etc, because I want to, not because I have to. You are stuck in a worthless mind controlled by fairy tales and nonsense. You are stuck in an old mind told who to love, who to hate, and what to do....So egotistical that you want to believe you can beat death by living forever, all based on a male inspired, male driven, male written book.of fiction...you have no idea how good it fels not to be held down by those worthless words....

      June 6, 2012 at 5:53 pm |
    • G

      ROTFL. You have nothing. Stop it.

      June 6, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • G

      PS. This world would be A LOT freer if men would not marry B-tches like you. INFECTION FOR THE HUMAN RACE.

      June 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
    • areyoukiddingme

      G...you're a woman hater. A real woman must have put you in your place sometime. And most likely you needed it. Come on big boy take the truth like a man !

      June 9, 2012 at 10:13 am |
  19. Deb Browell

    ..You religious nuts crack me up...Believing in a book compiled,edited, and masterminded by man...You have an excuse for everything.. If someone is dying and you pray and they live. "IT'S A MIRACLE" but if he dies, "IT'S THE WILL OF GOD" Yhe bible was cleverly written to deceive and backtrack on logic. All the while giving glory, power, wealth, and stature to the men.. Where is this God equal representation of women? Gee maybe he's a se*ist just like the men who created him...Wake up people..quit using that crap as a crutch and take responsibility for your own actions, instead of blaming your imaginary friend ! .Woman above all should be furious that the bible degrades them so much..Men love the Bible because it tends to their every desire at the expense of women. Only when men admit this will this planet move on to a greater sense of reality and begin to really prosper.

    June 6, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • Nilkinggary

      Sister Clare Millea spearheaded the Vatican's investigation of the nuns, so it's not quite as simple as you suggest.

      June 6, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • G

      pfff.. we'll see your Christian conversion story in a couple of years on Jewtube. Run of the mill frustrated white man.

      June 6, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • No cino

      Wow Deb, the force of your argument is so compelling, and your demeaner so inviting, I'm ripping my bible up now and looking for a membership in your happy club! No more "imaginary friend" for me! Who in their right mind would ever strive for peace love and joy when they can trade it for what YOU have. I'M SOLD!!!

      June 6, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • John

      Well said Deb!

      June 6, 2012 at 5:31 pm |
    • G

      John, stop being a symphatizer and rationaliser for evil. It doesn't pay very well in the afterlife.

      June 6, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • Possessor

      The Bible is full of fairy tales???
      The Bible says we should love your neighbor as yourself, since this is a fairly tale, you don't have too??? Bible says thou shalt not kill, since this is a fairy tale, then it is okay to do it then??? Bible says you should honor your mother and father, but according to you, it is a fairy tale, thus you don't have too, thus commit TREASON against them. Like it or not if you ar3e willing to commit treason against your parent's, YOU WILL be willing to commit treason against your Country. Deb, YOU are a stupid man, you read it correctly. Your male self is very stupid.

      June 7, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
    • why?

      @possessor

      Jesus said, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren,and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
      This sets people up to be victims of cults in addition to the cult of Christianity by belittling their gift from God "life itself" including their own life! It sets up a mindset of hating your own life in order to please the religious guru. That is sick and very unnatural and ungodly.

      June 7, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • why?

      @possessor
      To put it in the simplest terms for you.. Jesus, was considered "treasonous"...

      So your point is redundant!!

      June 7, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • yougottobekiddingme

      no Cino...she's right..You are obviously a man, hooked so easily because the god and the book make you feel so important..my advice...buy a big truck with big rims and big wheels and quit playing with your little friend so much.

      June 8, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • Deb

      Thanks John, you obviously are not intimidated by the facts, we need more men thinking like you

      June 10, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • whatthefu*k

      @G...you are intimated easily,

      June 11, 2012 at 9:23 am |
  20. Patric a

    Coming from the same filth who slaughtered the Indians and stole their treasures and forcing them to convert at gun point,Vatican along with your popes go P-h-u-c-k yourselves bunch of crooks.

    June 6, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
    • Bill

      “M** turb*tion is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action,” the church said

      Leave it to the church to make people feel guilty about a natural behavior that's as common as breathing. Every pope, every priest, every cardinal, every nun has m** turb*ted, without any doubt whatsoever. Keep in mind this is the same organization that arrested Galileo for believing everything didn't revolve around the earth, that brought the terror of the Inquisitions to mankind, and that failed to act appropriately to protect children from their own people.

      They also condemn hom ose* uals, yet as President Nixon said, "You know what happened to the Popes? It’s all right that Popes were laying the nuns, that’s been going on for centuries, but when the Catholic Church went to he** three or four centuries ago, it was h omose* ual."

      June 6, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.