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June 7th, 2012
05:04 PM ET
Same-sex ceremony on Army post draws fireBy Alan Duke, CNN (CNN) - A same-sex ceremony between an enlisted woman and a civilian woman on a U.S. Army post last month drew protests from lawmakers Thursday. The "private religious ceremony" took place at Fort Polk in Louisiana in May, post spokesman Scott Stearns said, but he would confirm few other details. Rep. John Fleming, a Louisiana Republican whose congressional district includes the Army post, said the military confirmed to him that the same-sex ceremony was performed by an Army chaplain in the chapel. The incident was an inevitable consequence of the end of the don't ask, don't tell policy in September, which previously banned homosexuals from military service, Fleming said. FULL STORY
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I really believe that the issue of same s.e.x. marriage is more political than religious so I don't know why there is so much discussion about it on this blog site.
I've got a lot more reasons to disagree with the issue than religious reasons, not that there are no religious reasons, it is just that it is more of a political issue.
It is actually a legal issue and not political. Unfortunately the legal arguments for DOMA are silly and uninteresting.
I would gladly make common cause with anyone willing to put an end to the majority of government corruption we suffer from these days.
Realistically, however, I expect to die before seeing any meaningful reform of our government at all.
There are no indications that would lead me to think otherwise at this point.
I'm curious about the political argument because I've yet to hear a rational argument against gay marriage that doesn't rely on the teachings of an ancient books of questionable morals.
Just to play devil's advocate here (pun intended), there is a shallow argument to be made against gay marriage in terms of social dynamics and the reactionary nature of introducing a social construct into a society without a well-defined "place" for it beyond a sort of intemperate and disproportional intrusion into the mindsets of people not quite ready for "prime time" as it were along with the unstructured approval of others who are willing to accept it but have no large place in their world-view where it will fit very well.
That is to say there is some possibility that our society is not quite "ready" for gay marriage in all sectors of our multivariate culture here in the USA. (laughs) But that would only matter in terms of negative backlash and is not necessarily an argument against gay marriage per se, but in introducing new facets and dynamics to our already messed up sub-cultures.
Okay, I'm not so good at playing devil's advocate with this one. The only people unable to handle gay marriage are the ones who have no good reason to feel that way beyond their schizophrenic and phobic tendencies.
Okay, just shoot me. I tried.
A valiant effort, no doubt. But yeah, kind of akin to saying that we shouldn't introduce interracial marriage because it will upset the racists.
LittleHero wrote,
Entropy, Cosmology, Time, and Eternity – My argument against the existence of God
I'd first like to talk about the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the concept of time. The concept of entropy also give us the arrow of time. Because systems on a whole will always go from order to disorder and these changes cannot be undone, the arrow of time always points to the future. Because of this, nothing lasts forever. Every star will die, and all of the matter in the universe will eventually fall into the remaining black holes. At this point, the universe will be dark and after a incomprehensibly vast amount of time all of the black holes will evaporate into Hawkings radiation. Nothing will be left but pure chaos without change. At this point the arrow of time is no longer valid. Time will end. This assumes that the universe doesn't simply dissolve or "pop" before this happens. These are all inevitable conclusions based on our understanding of the universe and the laws of nature. When I was young there was still the steady universe theory, but even that was not immune to entropy.
A Serpent's Thought in rebuttal
Quantumn thermodynamics, celestial thermodynamics, Galactic thermodynamics. solar thermodynamics and stellar thermodynamics among other types of thermaldynamics are individually apart and separated by laws of thermal reactions dependent upon gravimetric weightiness and the consistencies of matter within quantun levels inductions and relative rates of generalized speeds on the atomic levels. The entropic rationalism wherewith the decay rates of inert matter will not likely become an absolute denigration. Quantumn systems on a whole will always go from disorder to order and sometimes back to disorder while hardly ever becoming a absolute entropic denigration. Your stating of the "arrow of time" is but a worthy attempt to rationalize timely progressives but time is only for unifying the observable movements and/or motions of physicalness. Time is only but a tool and in all honesty time has no force or physicalness. What Einstein and others view as being a singularity is made up of dark matter or as Einstein proclaimed it is "space time".
I'm not quite certain what you are trying to say, I have read your posts before and have always been stymied by your statements.
Are you refuting my arguments, my conclusions, or my philosophy? I never claimed "proof"
LittleHero,
I am making an attempt to remake/reissue and ratify your thoughtfulness as an ideological addendum.
I am actually more interested in the following sections of my post. My arguments are irrelevant to struggles that other atheists experience and I have no interest in proving god doesn't exist. It is an unsolvable problem after all isn't it.
This blog is really about the social justice issues surrounding religious belief. Leave the unsolvable on the table and address the issues that matter.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to point out (because I am one of those bothersome nitpickers) that the issue of whether some particular god exists is indeed solvable and that any god defined can be examined to that extent and the question of its existence can thus be resolved.
And it is not irrelevant. A comprehensive body of data surrounding the delusional nature of religion is essential to countering any damaging influence it may have. Dismissing things out of hand is not conducive to a comprehensive data set.
Your arguments are futile because they neglect the fact that they are based on faith in science. You argue ignorantly against faith that you cannot understand. You have chosen to be blind and you love your blindness. You would argue with your mind and faith fully in science that water cannot cover the Earth in a flood. I have seen people with broken legs no longer than two days be healed and rip off casts. A women in a wheel chair for 22 years, paralized from the waste down and stand and now walk perfectly with no evidence of any sickness. Woman bed ridden for three years in my church healed and a written explaination from the doctors saying there is "no medical explaination" for her recovery.
The best explanation for your blinded mind could only be that it didn't happen... You see there is no foolish scientific explanation for the supernatural. You have no faith and though you may conjure up valiant thought that you are a minority in your belief you are not. You are indeed no different than those who confess to believe in Christ but live as though He doesn't exist. The true minority are those who have actually been born again, changed by His supernatural love and love in the power of His Spirit.
You see, you can't argue against faith because you think it's all foolish. If you have obtained anything you at least discovered that you live godlessly and when you stand before Him you want even try to argue that you did. The truth is that you are a sinner and whether you believe it or not, you will die one day (it's scientific but that wouldn't matter if it wasn't biblical) and face God with your own righteousness in hand. You will be cast into hell unless you recognize your need for Christ death in payment for your sin. You're lack of belief doesn't make it not true. In fact, everything your saying is perfectly laid out in Romans 1... There is hope for you though, there are still some people who will love you enough to tell you the truth while you still have breath. Repent and believe. You are not God and your belief is not sufficient.
I've read and known what you believe. It's the same as everyone. You believe in science and what you can see. The truth is that you choose blindness because you'd be unwilling to admit deadness, think about life and eternity and reads Romans 1-3 and John 3. Again, what most Christians don't believe is that God is who He says He is so they'll argue silly thingsman.
Your arguments are futile because they neglect the fact that they are based on faith in science. You argue ignorantly against faith that you cannot understand. You have chosen to be blind and you love your blindness. You would argue with your mind and faith fully in science that water cannot cover the Earth in a flood. I have seen people with broken legs no longer than two days be healed and rip off casts. A women in a wheel chair for 22 years, paralized from the waste down and stand and now walk perfectly with no evidence of any sickness. Woman bed ridden for three years in my church healed and a written explaination from the doctors saying there is "no medical explaination" for her recovery.
The best explanation for your blinded mind could only be that it didn't happen... You see there is no foolish scientific explanation for the supernatural. You have no faith and though you may conjure up valiant thought that you are a minority in your belief you are not. You are indeed no different than those who confess to believe in Christ but live as though He doesn't exist. The true minority are those who have actually been born again, changed by His supernatural love and love in the power of His Spirit.
You see, you can't argue against faith because you think it's all foolish. If you have obtained anything you at least discovered that you live godlessly and when you stand before Him you want even try to argue that you did. The truth is that you are a sinner and whether you believe it or not, you will die one day (it's scientific but that wouldn't matter if it wasn't biblical) and face God with your own righteousness in hand. You will be cast into hell unless you recognize your need for Christ death in payment for your sin. You're lack of belief doesn't make it not true. In fact, everything your saying is perfectly laid out in Romans 1... There is hope for you though, there are still some people who will love you enough to tell you the truth while you still have breath. Repent and believe. You are not God and your belief is not sufficient.
I've read and known what you believe. It's the same as everyone. You believe in science and what you can see. The truth is that you choose blindness because you'd be unwilling to admit deadness, think about life and eternity and read Romans 1-3 and John 3. Again, what most Christians don't believe is that God is who He says He is. You can't argue faith. You either have it or you don't. You either have Christ or you don't. You either have life or you don't.
Fair enough. But maybe at that point God starts moving around blocks of molecules?
Prefer happy! happy! joy! joy! to
homo! homo! gay! gay!
CNN-Let us strive to promote the former.
You're an idiot!
There is really intriguing conversation in here, and you result to stupid petty rants!
you make it clear youre a Jesus freak!
This is the best discussion on here that I've seen in a long time!!
Kudos to Colin, and little hero!
LittleHero, I liked your post. I would like to share with you my thoughts. I have posted this before, but it captures my view of atheism and its liberating effects on the mind and human spirit.
Ten Ways You Know you are an Atheist.
1. You were likely brought up a theist (probably a Jew or Christian if you live in the USA) and had to do your own thinking to rise above the beliefs that still occupy the mind of the believer. This usually involved being smart and working hard at school and college so as to get a good, accurate view of the natural Universe and overcoming significant social pressure to dumb yourself down and conform. In short, you had the guts to ask the hard questions and the brains to spot the weak answers. The more you came to understand the Universe, the less reason there was to believe in a god and the more you came to understand human nature, the more you understood why billions of us still do.
2. While rejecting the supernatural elements of the Bible, you nevertheless retain a large amount of the morality taught today by mainstream Christianity. To the extent you reject Christian morality, it is where it is mean spirited – such as in the way it seeks to curtail freedoms or oppose the rights of $exual minorities. In most other respects, your basic moral outlook is indistinguishable from that of the liberal Christian – you just don’t need the mother of all carrots and sticks hanging over your head in order to act in a manner that you consider moral.
3. You know a great deal more about the Bible than most believers. This is because you took the time to read it yourself and did not rely on the primary-color simple stories you learned in Sunday school. You have also probably done some research into the historical Jesus and have a good handle on where he REALLY fit in to the broader picture of the Middle East at the time. Needless to say, his miracles and other magic powers soon started to look pretty unlikely.
4. Your knowledge of basic science and history is much stronger than that of your average believer. You likely have a basic working knowledge of physics, astronomy, evolutionary biology and cosmology and a good idea of the history of life on this planet. This acc.umulated knowledge puts you in a position to judge the claims of the Bible in a critical light and they are almost always found wanting. To the theist, this makes you “elitist” and ‘arrogant”.
5. You relish your role as a religious minority in the USA, as this gives you an impetus to fight and you understand how others with unpopular, but doubtlessly correct views have felt throughout history. There is something altogether satisfying to you about having a deep conviction you are right and being viewed with disdain for your views by the errant majority. You feel a quiet confidence that future generations will look back on you as a member of a class of trailblazers, as religious supersti.tions go into inevitable decline in popularity.
6. You are likely more environmentally aware than your theist friends and colleagues and unlikely to fall for claims of industry and wind-bag politicians concerning the impact of man’s activities on the environment. You could no more act in an environmentally irresponsible manner because “god will keep us safe” than you could jump off a ship, believing King Neptune will keep you safe.
7. You generally have a live and let live atti.tude, but will fiercely defend any attempts by theists to thrust their views on you or your children, directly or through control of school boards, the legislature or the executive. While you are prepared to debate and argue passionately with the theist on an intellectual level, you would never wish them harm or ill will. You know you are likely to be smugly told you will “burn in hell for all eternity” for your healthy skepticism. This highlights what you despise about religion, as you would not wish a bad sunburn on another, simply because they have a different religious view to you. You have never heard of an evolutionary biologist strapping a bomb to himself and running into a church yelling “Darwin-u akbar, Darwin-u akbar”.
8. You likely know more about other religions than your average theist. This makes you less fearful of them and enables you to see parallels. You realize that, if you were born in India, you would have been brought up with a totally different religion. You realize that every culture that has ever existed has had its own god(s) and they always favor that particular culture, its hopes, dreams and prejudices. They cannot all exist and you see the error all faiths make of thinking only theirs exist(s). This “rising above” the regional nature of all religions was probably instrumental in your achieving atheism.
9. You likely have a deep, genuine appreciation of the fathomless beauty and unbelievable complexity of our Universe, from the 4 nucleotides that orchestrate every aspect of you, through to the distant quasars, without having to think it was all made for you. You likely get more out of being the irrelevant ant staring up at the cosmos than you do in having to pretend that it was all made to turn in majestic black-and-white pirouette about you.
10. While you have a survival instinct, you cannot fear death in the way the theist does. You know that the whole final judgment story, where you may be sent to hell if you fail, is Dark Ages nonsense meant to keep the Church’s authority. You also know that you were dead for 13,720,000,000 years before you were born. It is impossible for you to fear death, for the simple reason that you know the capacity to fell pain, or to regret or fear itself dies. You will not even know you are dead. Fear of death is as meaningless to you as is the fear of a vacuum, the fear of not being born. You feel a lot more secure, and indeed a deep comfort, in this knowledge, than you would in trying to yoke yourself to some quasi-hope from Bronze Age Palestine that every part of your intellect tells you is untenable.
Thank you –
I have been lurking here for months, and I have read your post before.
This was actually the very first post that I have made to any blogs (with the exception of some technical forums related to my career). I do fit the list quite well – with the exception of #5.
I have felt the need to hide my atheistic leanings my entire life. Maybe it was because I came to my conclusions at a very young age. I attended church summer camps and always went through the motions, but I always felt like I need to pretend. Even to this day I will take communion at my hometown church – in a small town religious participation is a social and community commitment more than anything else. I am comfortable discussing my views with friends, but realistically we are subject to the same violence and abuse that gays and blacks experience.
littlehero is an idiot. Don't waste your time trying to get his attention through the web of mystical claptrap he has used to fill his mind with insane nonsense. He is unable to see anything but his own self-generated pompous gibberish.
@shakes head
You are exactly why I am still in the closet in the real world – because although I can maintain social graces and respect your views, you are completely intolerant of mine.
You assume I'm completely intolerant when I am not.
I just don't like bullsh!t in any form and you've got a barrelfull of bs in your head thinking you "know" there is a god out there when we can show you that there is not a single god anywhere worth the mention or the name.
You think the universe is a god or what? Listen: anyone who throws up the "second law of thermodynamics" as if it were some sort of proof instead of a mere observation of what is supposed to happen in a closed system has been led astray into the realm of metaphysics where proof is scorned, facts are scorned, and where logic and reason are viewed as something inadequate to understanding this space-time continuum.
You are a mystical bullshter who says he's an atheist yet says he believes in a god. You failed the name of atheist when you proclaim belief in any sort of god, fool.
You are an agnostic theist, not an atheist of any stripe, so don't go saying you're an atheist. It's just pure bs.
No – in fact I am an atheist. My existence will end, there is no god, there is no creator.
You said, "But somehow there is an intelligence that is outside of the universe that is eternal and created the universe that we see."
Why don't you explain this little gaping hole in your protestations of atheism, your reasons for believing in this "intelligent creator" of yours and why this "creator" is not a god?
Go ahead. I'll try to keep up.
@shakes head
If you are sincere about joining the discussion – I will politely tell you that you missed the point of my separating that one sentence from the rest because it was meant in a different "voice" – it was a sarcastic rhetorical question. I should have actually put a question mark at the end of the sentence. The implied response to this rhetorical question was: "No, and here is why..."
I am arguing for the non-existence of god – it is right there in the heading.
If you are just trolling – go F yourself (no offense).
My apologies. I misunderstood the context of your floating rhetorical reference. I think what set me off was this thermodynamics fixation that I have seen being used by religious posters in the past. I assumed you were one of them without double-checking your post.
In the case of a closed system, I question the concepts of "chaos" and "order" as these appear to me to be arbitrary and subjective, so this 2nd law is suspect to me in addition to being used by some religious trolls in the past to bolster their non-arguments.
With that said, I have my own notions of apparent "time" which does not really lend itself much to being a non-reversible "arrow" and I view it against a background of higher dimensions as a possibility. There is no solid GUT to say one way or the other. The state of your [illusion of] self-awareness at any time is subject to physics, has an effect upon the continuum to some degree that may or may not be "retrievable" in any meaningful way, so while our biochemical processes are a part of how this continuum works, there is still the question why anyone would want their primate consciousness preserved with all it's shortcomings and uncontrolled actions/reactions.
I do not like being a human primate with a brain that is so uncontrolled and essentially automatic due to how our neurobiological processes work.
We have the illusion of self-will, the feedback loop of self-referential processing that gives us the illusion of self-awareness all wrapped up in a randomly-mutated bio-chem-electrical nervous system subject to massive distortion and other relatively negative effects.
There is no good reason I can think of to preserve any of this ridiculous primate "life experience" or whatever you might want to call a soul. We cannot do other than what we do. If, for some strange reason, our consciousness somehow "reincarnated" into another organism, there is nothing worth bringing along. Your memories are part of your current brain state. There is no reason why they would continue beyond death for any reason I can see. Without a body, any continuation of the brain's physiological processes past the point of brain-death has no support and no result in anything we can see.
That is not to say that there couldn't be something likely to be worthless from a rational point of view yet still occurs in some way – but without any reason to consider it further, it remains a thought experiment and nothing more.
There could be some dimensional creature that has some ability to do things like view your life as one whole continuous electro-chemical feedback loop, but there would be no reason for it to judge us for anything we do for our lives would appear as one huge data set controlled and locked within the larger data set of all quantum aspects of our existence and our physiological processes.
We see no indication of any outside influences in this continuum, so not only is there no gods, there are no indications of any hyperdimensional creatures interfering with this continuum. At all scales, I should add and even without a GUT to use these things appear fairly obvious to me, and thus these human ideas of a supernatural being are easily dismissed as sheer bs, yet religious people are mental slaves to their delusional belief systems and many are literally unable to face anything that opposes these indoctrinated lies they have been forced to believe.
You might say we need better priorities and fight only the things we are able to fight, but technology has changed that game.
If we can someday mutate into a more intelligent and rational primate, there would be better odds for humanity surviving with a rational society, but we are a long ways from that. Currently the odds are, hm, bad for humanity, not just in surviving but in probable social dynamics based on how I view such things.
And my life is very unlikely to be long enough to see any substantial changes in how humanity does things, so I am understandably (I hope) cynical, pessimistic, and somewhat angry at how large and damaging an influence "religion" and our concomitant vulnerabilities to indoctrination play a role in any extrapolation.
I hope I have made my proper amends with my own rant for you to read. There isn't much else to do at this time of day except drone on with ragged postulations, hypothesis, and theory.
Ignore Serpent-poop, he's just trolling with nonsensical warpings of the language.
I used to do that in grade school. I got over it, thankfully.
LittleHero, I liked your post. I would like to share with you my thoughts. I have posted this before, but it captures my view of atheism and its liberating effects on the mind and human spirit.
* I am reposting a slightly edited version (I removed a couple lines that were poorly worded that someone found arrogant) *
DISCLAIMER – I do not claim my arguments are original or airtight, but they are good enough for me and I would suspect most other atheists would agree. It really is more about my philosophy of life and struggles.
Entropy, Cosmology, Time, and Eternity – My argument against the existence of God
I'd first like to talk about the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the concept of time. The concept of entropy also give us the arrow of time. Because systems on a whole will always go from order to disorder and these changes cannot be undone, the arrow of time always points to the future. Because of this, nothing lasts forever. Every star will die, and all of the matter in the universe will eventually fall into the remaining black holes. At this point, the universe will be dark and after a incomprehensibly vast amount of time all of the black holes will evaporate into Hawkings radiation. Nothing will be left but pure chaos without change. At this point the arrow of time is no longer valid. Time will end. This assumes that the universe doesn't simply dissolve or "pop" before this happens. These are all inevitable conclusions based on our understanding of the universe and the laws of nature. When I was young there was still the steady universe theory, but even that was not immune to entropy.
But somehow there is an intelligence that is outside of the universe that is eternal and created the universe that we see.
In order for this to be true, then this being must exist in a universe that does not obey the 2nd law of thermodynamics. In a universe like this we would have no way to even define time. I see no way that anything resembling a consciousness could exist in that universe and also had the ability to reach across universes and select a few special humans with which to share this existance.
I've "known in my heart" since I was a child that the laws of nature did not and could not allow for any religion that espoused an eternal afterlife to be true. Even concepts like reincarnation are not eternal as all life will be gone at some point. I spent decades attending church, and kept my athieism in the closet. I have never wasted my time digging through religious material, exploring "alternative" spirituality, or even reading the bible. I knew it was all bunk, I'll let others try to enlighten the ignorant. After years of terrifying comtemplation of the end of my existance and consciousness, I have finally accepted that literally everything comes to an end.
I do believe that we are special – I am aware of my existance and I have the ability to understand the true final death of the entire universe that we live in. Entropy and the arrow of time are what gives me a sense of immortality. My existance is real, and the conscious choices that I make in my life change the entire universe until the end of time. I can create differences between the past and the future that can never be undone. For all of time every action that I make changes the universe irrevocably.
I am keenly aware of this, and because of this I take my own personal morals and ethics very seriously. I know that every action that I take can never be undone. I can personally define a "sin" as breaking my own rules, and therefore none of my "sins" can ever be forgiven. You could say, then why have any morals or ethics at all and never feel guilt? Well, the answer is that I am not a sociopath and I would actually like to enjoy my life by getting along (loving) the other beings with whom I am sharing this tiny sliver of time on this tiny speck of a world. I also would like to die knowing that the entire universe is better because of the choices that I made in my tiny blink of existance.
Fact – Infinity is a mathematical concept only. Eternity is a false concept.
Why am I now coming clean? Well, last weekend my step-daughter was married in a beautiful park on a beautiful day and the pastor had the audacity to go on a hate filled tirade against gay marriage. If it weren't for the fact that I didn't want to create a scene, I would have got up and walked away calling the minister a bigot. Instead, I was taking a video of the ceremony for the couple. Now I have to present them with a video of their day of love with a huge swatch of hate mixed in. In ten years or so they will have to explain this hate to their children, and hopefully in another twenty years they will have to have the same conversation with their grandkids. This ignorant, hate-filled bigot left his footprints in "my" universe and I feel the need to counter his changes.
I've never felt the need to spread my personal philosophy or even come out publicly as an atheist, and I don't really care if I "convert" anyone. I do feel that I have to speak out now and hope that other closet atheist will at least speak out against what is happening in this country. I only hope that fellow like minded people will try to "sweep" the footprints that these idiots are leaving in "our" universe. They certainly have been stomping around lately.
Everything that needs energy to function will eventually burn out when the energy runs out.
That is all I have ever needed to define my conclusion to the question of no gods existing.
I would like to add for struggling atheists, that yes I do still feel fear – we all do, its part of being human. I try to remind myself that I should be grateful for the ability to even contemplate my non-existence, and that the universe is filled with other marvels as well, and I should just enjoy my life. For those religious fanatics that claim you will never feel the "power" – I would contend that the religious/spiritual experience in an evolutionary coping mechanism to counteract the fear of death. I am telling you that you can tap into that joy and oneness with relying on mumbo-jumbo.
Answer
Thank God somebody said "let there be light" ! Oh, wait and then that light seperated the darkness.
I need to practice better proof reading skills.
I meant to say "without relying on mumbo-jumbo", but you all knew that.
Little Hero
Nothing wrong with looking forward to a promised land. Answer looks forward to darkness that results from lack of energy. We all need to look beyond ourselves.
Sorry, that pastor or priest made a mess of things. I would have a talk with him or her and switch churches pronto.
I believe "energy" is just a state of life's being. Energy is exhausted, but theoretically it may never dissipate. It may simply mirror itself, as dark energy, therefore being of more energy than before it was exhausted.
look at it like this. If you have a bottle filled with lots of air, it creates pressure on the bottle, cap and you bottled kinetic energy. now if you invert the process remove every bit of air from the bottle and cap, you then have a Vacuum. But it's still an energy. Completely opposite of what it was, but still, its energy.
There are better ways to explain this, however I wanted to keep it as simple as I could.
And I could be wrong, but either way i would love to find out! Wouldn't you?
I actually have nothing against religious people, some of my closest friends and family members are very devout. I would not deny religion to anyone if they truly do find comfort and never have to truly examine their mortality. I have seen the look of fear on the face of dying people, and I has also seen the serene calm of "knowing". There are some of us along the human spectrum that cannot accept the claims of religion and have to confront the emotions that accompany the knowledge of our limited existence. I am trying to help these fellow travelers, I am very comfortable with your religious convictions and I respect them.
LittleHero,
Entropy, Cosmology, Time, and Eternity – My argument against the existence of God
I'd first like to talk about the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the concept of time. The concept of entropy also give us the arrow of time. Because systems on a whole will always go from order to disorder and these changes cannot be undone, the arrow of time always points to the future. Because of this, nothing lasts forever. Every star will die, and all of the matter in the universe will eventually fall into the remaining black holes. At this point, the universe will be dark and after a incomprehensibly vast amount of time all of the black holes will evaporate into Hawkings radiation. Nothing will be left but pure chaos without change. At this point the arrow of time is no longer valid. Time will end. This assumes that the universe doesn't simply dissolve or "pop" before this happens. These are all inevitable conclusions based on our understanding of the universe and the laws of nature. When I was young there was still the steady universe theory, but even that was not immune to entropy.
A Serpent's Thought in rebuttal
Quantumn thermodynamics, celestial thermodynamics, Galactic thermodynamics. solar thermodynamics and stellar thermodynamics among other types of thermaldynamics are individually apart and separated by laws of thermal reactions dependent upon gravimetric weightiness and the consistencies of matter within quantun levels inductions and relative rates of generalized speeds on the atomic levels. The entropic rationalism wherewith the decay rates of inert matter will not likely become an absolute denigration. Quantumn systems on a whole will always go from disorder to order and sometimes back to disorder while hardly ever becoming a absolute entropic denigration. Your stating of the "arrow of time" is but a worthy attempt to rationalize timely progressives but time is only for unifying the observable movements and/or motions of physicalness. Time is only but a tool and in all honesty time has no force or physicalness. What Einstein and others view as being a singularity is made up of dark matter or as Einstein proclaimed it is "space time".
Umm, HAWKING RADIATION was disproved.
By a plumber no less! Lol
Hawking believed that whatever fell into a black hole disappeared and was gone forever. this plumber guy, (sorry I can't recall his name) proved that it's not true. He proved that no matter how it was broken down, the information was still there. Like dropping a drop of red in into a bucket of water, the ink would eventually be spread throughout the water, and would no longer be in the consecrated state that it was initially in, however all of its parts would still be there, dispersed as that may be, but still there.
Even if my understanding of the cosmology of the end of time is off a bit. You have to admit that there will be an incomprehensible amount of time after all life is impossible, and if I had to endure that boredom, I prefer non-existence.
You said, "Fact – Infinity is a mathematical concept only. Eternity is a false concept."
I would have said, "Infinity is a concept of scalar proportions relative to whatever is being discussed. Eternity is also a concept of scalar proportions, but usually in terms of time." Although to be honest I never would bother saying anything like that anyway – it smacks too much of pontificating without proper grammar or even a need to define these terms when a dictionary could be used instead and argued from that point rather than tossing out "only" or "false concept" when you do not have any basis for what you say. That quote is basically an assertion of yours without proof, yet you say they are facts.
Not good. You did not qualify your statement of "fact" with anything logical and used terms that show your sentences to be incorrect. I hate to be so nitpicky but I am bored. I agree with much of what you say as you might expect.
Good luck, LittleHero. We must all do what we can. There are almost a billion atheists / agnostics yet I often feel like a lone voice in the wilderness for all that, but then someone like you or Colin comes along and I feel much better. Primitive instincts save the day!
A plumber disproved Hawking radiation? LOL NOT
I may have some problems with his pet theory but I do not expect to hash it out to any useful degree here.
That plumber bs has been thoroughly debunked. You should talk to a real physics professor if you want to understand physics.
The "human psyche" is translucently arboreal. We see as in our sights' eyes yet we dream without eyesight. Daydreamers are the ones who ascribe our civilization to venture forth into and upon the issues for and of lividness toward living. Ray Bradbury was such a daydreamer and I will miss his perceptions of life. May his psyche go ever on until God gives him a place to live deeply within the microcosm of spatialness where all celestial life goes after death beckons them to return to their atomic roots. God bless Mr Bradbury!
Is God plausibly real? I shall not speak about biblical terminologies and do not need to be reminded about manuscripted religious flaws. God is to me, beyond any mere human mortals' book-knowledge and God is found far away from "digitalized algebraic numeralities"! God creatively evolved us out of and from the very first single-celled creation thru His doing and slowly thru time did creatively evolve us into being what we now today are, which is human beings.
Is not this one Cosmos of which our universe is held in going thru its' own evolution of pre-determinations, yet viewed by most of us as randomized motion? That said then, could there honestly be a Creator of any Cosmological quagmire wherein;- a singular Cosmos is made up of many innumerable clusters of universes being randomly set in semi-intellectual motions each according to their own universally calculative vibrations?
Our universal breech in the vastness of just one universe in a singular Cosmos is said to be 13 or so billions of years old as science so reveals. Are we in this universe of ours living just upon the outermost fringes of a single Cosmos where our universe was born first, or was our universe born last in the creations regarding a simplified Cosmos of multi-universes? Maybe our universe was born in the middle of the grand Cosmos of all celestial universes. Your guess is as good as mine!
Could this universe we find ourselves being in and living upon a planet that is just at the right distances from a star for our inhabited planet to be biospherically sound for the harborage of sanctioned life? Ergo, was God not the designer/creator or author of our planet's creatively evolved life tree of biology eventually culminating with life forms called mankind?
Creations are always evolving. Sometimes slowly and sometimes even slower. Our Cosmos is creatively evolving and morphing itself but we will never know what the Cosmos will become even if we were here trillions of years from now. The rate of our Cosmos creatively evolving is so very slow when compared to our body's creatively comstrained, cellularized morphology from conception to birth and finally to adulthood.
God give us the ability to reason, and the need to inquire. Religion try's to stop us from inquiring, and has us blindly believing what Man, wants us to believe. "the Adam and Eve story", and so on... Using "REASON" we can clearly see that this is not plausible, and couldn't possibly be true.. God wants us to figure out all we can, about the universe perhaps multiverse and more.. If not he wouldn't have granted us with inquiry to seek, and "reason" to understand. I find it exciting, and comforting. To know that we are part of something so great!! We are not the reason for creation, we are not the center of the universe/multiverse. But we are however a part of it! I love it, and I love finding out new things, I search for new information daily, and want to learn all that I can.. Its why we are here.
I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written.
Way to go Einstein!!
The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the at.t.i.tude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.
I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.
A. Einstein
Einstein didnt believe in the dogmatic religions!!
. He believed that god was made up of things that powered the universe. And that gods laws weren't what was written in any bible. But that gods laws wasn't a matter of any opinion.. Gods laws consisted of gravity, velocity, math, and the like.. Because these laws are true, and unforgiving, they must be of the true god! And not the biblical god! "REASON" WAS HIS RELIGION, AS IT IS MINE!
a person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value. It seems to me that what is important is the force of this superpersonal content ... regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a Divine Being, for otherwise it would not be possible to count Buddha and Spinoza as religious personalities. Accordingly a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation ... In this sense religion is the age-old endeavor of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals and constantly to strengthen and extend their effect. If one conceives of religion and science according to these definitions then a conflict between them appears impossible. For science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be...
A Einstein
My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior "reasoning power", which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."
A. Einstein
One can die but what about love and let love!
"May it be to the world, what I believe it will be (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all), the signal of aro-using men to burst the chains under which monk-ish igno-rance and super-st-ition had persuaded them to bind themselves." (regarding the Amer-ican Revol-ution)
THOMAS JEFFERSON
OK – I'll be serious and this is everyone on both sides. What is the legal defense strategy/argument in the DOMA reviews?
sorry – this is 'for' everyone
Its a political tactic, to win votes from the extreme right wing Christian conservatives.
. Several conservatives after leaving politics come out in support of gay marriage. Ex. Colin Powell, Dick Cheney etc..
Its a little disheartening knowing that positions would gander with the freedoms of american people. But it's the sad truth!
Oops!
Positions = politicians
I'm serious – what is the argument in favor of DOMA? I would seriously like to know. I can't seem to find it in my internet searches and thought someone could present me with a fact.
To win votes! That's the bottom line!
Paraphrasing the best I can – their argument seems to be that denying marriage (rights) to gays strengthens their marriages (rights). Is this indeed the only thing they have?
I am only hoping that all of this is solved before the amendment is presented (withdrawn) to the voters in my state.
Pretty much.
. They claim DOMA protects the "san-ct-ity of marriage". They all fall short of explaining how gay marriage henders this "san-ct-ity". But thats their ar-gument. As weak, and pale as it may be, thats it!
DOMA violates the const.itution in so many ways – this really does seem to be a no-brainer. I am not sure if the lower courts can even rule on the states rights issues, but this will never go to the SCOTUS if it is overturned on all provisions. They will let the rulings stand and drop this like a hot potato.
The rights of the Amer-ican people should never be put to a vote. And SCOTUS know this. Even though chief executive judge Roberts, has hired the best attorneys he can find to keep it stalled for as long as he can, he knows that once it gets there, it is his obligation to uphold the cons-ti-tution. Thus it would be out of his hearts desire, and at the hands of his legal obligation. forcing him to do what he does not want.
it will happen sooner or later. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.
Why do these Belief Blogs draw so many mentally impaired weirdos? I suppose that's the prized product of Darwin's evolution! Huh! ...
Why? Easy, that's what organized religion produces.
LOL! You mean organized religion of Darwinism?!
Troll bridge is that way -->
Bored with my troll. Wish it had brains, or at least balls.
What I wonder is this: why are you so lame, troll?
You know being this angry and bitter is a slow form of suicide. lighten up man
Your sect (Judaism) by its sufferings has furnished a remarkable proof of the universal spirit of religious intolerance inherent in every sect, disclaimed by all while feeble, and practiced by all when in power. Our laws have applied the only antidote to this vice, protecting all on an equal footing. But more remains to be done, for although we are free by law, we are not so in practice; public opinion srects itself into an Inquisition, and exercises its offices with as much fanaticism as fans the flames of an Auto-da-Fe."
Of all those commenting in this room you seem to be most unhappy, yet content tell others they aren't happy either!!
. Someone else happiness can't be measured by your tilted views!
Put your god goggles down, and learn to see a clear view of reality!
As if I have to say this...
The comment above was for "standup"!
ahhhh Why? and How? (hm hm hm get it?)
Why are you a veterinarian? Then you know the dangers of hookworm. Costly, bad for morale and just too messy around the house. Why it takes much paper towels to absorb the "man" made artificial placenta.
Why is who a veterinarian?
What are you smoking, honey? The brown acid is bad.
he said brown, tee hee
"tee hee?" What are you, a teletubby?
I can't be a teletubby or a wiggle, I don't believe in tinky winkie
@standup
. You can't tell me that you've never played with your dog, or pet the kitty! Or mustard a weiner, or ate a kitkat! You may have even had the dog come through the back door!!
. My point is, there is no s-ex act, that gays commit, that isn't already being done by straight couples.
. Therefore to say gay people shouldnt be able to legally marry, is plain ol' discri-mination fueled by hatred! Stop it already. And stop hiding your prej-udices behind your bible
I doubt Can'tStandUp has ever had s3x unless it was with an inanimate object.
Unless one counts his image in the bathroom mirror as something other than inanimate.
Excellent point! But I bet he's done some pretty nasty things to Priscilla's plastic!
and what does that have to do with the Hooligans next door? They are a cheery lot I will give you that, but never truly happy. They are incapable of ever acheiving it. That is sad. But their flower garden is blooming with tulips, until L. Kentas flew over the patch.
So WHY?,,, jumping into the frying pan is a good thing? Following the lemmings to jump off a cliff is a good thing? Being gay is a good thing? For whom is gay a good thing? Does the gay crowds need to "act up" in order to be allowed their individualized nideness to be flaunted about? Tom Tom,,, Go do your mate a favor and be the subordinate for a change,, Okay? Let your "thang" be hung with gentle care, Okay?
Marriage is an insti-tu-tion ordained by God, anf it has been a thread that kept every civilization from disintegrating. When marriage and family disintegrates, there goes the society. If gays want to have a llive- in – partner contract to have certain rights, that's what they should go for. But marriage is a sacred insti- tu-tion, and no one has right to change that.
FedUP! .... you are dereanged. Marriage pre-dates ALL modern religions .. and before ANYONE believed in YOUR "god", people were taking spouses. Your babbling about marriage being "god'given" is a load of crap, and so is that squishy stuff between your ears.
amen brother
@Mirosal
How do YOU know when Marriage originated? You call my post "blabber" , but what is YOURS then?
I have a Source by which I am guided, but you have NOTHING! You are dead, while you're still living, man! YOU have NOTHING as your source! You are no more then a puff of hot air!