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June 11th, 2012
05:08 PM ET
Justices deny review over students' religious messages in classroomBy Bill Mears, CNN Washington (CNN) - In what have become known as the "Jesus pencil" and "candy cane" cases, the Supreme Court refused Monday to consider appeals from the families of elementary school students over distribution of religious-themed gifts on campus. At issue was whether school officials can be sued for violating the First Amendment rights of what the students claimed was their "private, non-curricular speech based solely upon its religious viewpoint." A federal appeals court had ruled in favor of school officials in Plano, Texas,on the liability question, and the justices without comment let that decision stand. The full 16-judge panel from the New Orleans-based court last September concluded while the constitutional rights of the students were violated, school administrators could not be sued under the "qualified immunity" legal standard. The litigation continues on other aspects of two separate incidents nine years ago, both involving schools at the Plano Independent School District in the Dallas suburb. FULL STORY |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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ehh i for one would have already taught my kid that Jesus is born in May,... and to through the pencil away and enjoy the candy cane,... then again i do feel for the parents because if there kid become a christian,.. Christ teaches to leave your non-believing family and hate them let the dead bury the dead,.. this is why Christ destroys nations and divides families,.. and for that reason alone Christ should be out laws in our school
Atheists wish to restrict the freedom from the religious while complaining that the religious are restricting theirs?
How stupid
Case closed!
Schools are a hate free zone. Prostalizing a religion that preeches restriction of rights, and da mn ation for those who do not believe is illegal. Case closed. Ps remember any form of beliefs, has a lie in it.
while Christians restrict my religion and push theirs into our government,.. a nation under god means my peoples death
yet MOST religions don't preach violence etc?
If kids were exposed to the popular and unpopular religions,ALL those sterotypes and misconceptions would die.
You think the opposite because you do not like just Christianity.
America was never a Christian nation..as most founding fathers were Deists.
You worry about brainwashing? We were all forced to believe evolution and the big bang are total facts but are still theories which means they have proof but is not totally proven.
Since its under science it can be taught yet most non believers have made it their own religion.
You care but won't listen to the minds of the students
How open minded oh wait..not
@Fails
Math does not give equal time to 2+2=5. Geology does not give equal time to flat earth theory. Astronomy does not give equal time to astrology. Chemistry does not give equal time to alchemy.
For the same reason; biology does not give equal time to creationism. You are right these theories have a great deal of evidence to support them. When creation "science" comes up with any evidence, at all, then it might be treated as a legitimate theory, but until then it will be dismissed out of hand.
Bring evidence for your position before you ask others to respect it.
YOU want the evidence,find it yourself if you want it this badly
I don't want the evidence. I'm very happy to continue casually dismissing your lame explanations for the origins of life.
However, if you manage to come up with evidence I will apologize, and begin to examine your theory once again.
would you like it if every muslim in your city comes "preaching" sharia law to you everywhere you go in the city? if you answer no, you just proved yourself a hypocrite
ok but you can't demand evidence
Total logic fail
Nothing,
I don't think you understand the difference between science and religion. The bible story, quran story, Harry Potter story, Santa story or fairytales are not forms of evidence. A believer in any of these stories simply has as s umption and wishful thinking to back them up. Christians fought science 100 of years ago...but we got past the flat Earth and the Sun orbiting the Earth. As science proves more and more the "wishful" thinking being incorrect...the Christians will resist. Science helps lift the shadow of superst i tion and better understand how the World works around us. One day, the Christians, Muslims, Jewse etc will not have a rock or shadow to hide their ignorance under.
Out of your ignorance, faith is required.
@Mickey "restriction of rights"? That term you're looking for is "self control". The concept is very old in churches, but has largely disappeared from secular society.
@Fails
Respect, in life and for a theory, is earned not demanded. To earn respect, or support, for a theory you must provide evidence. Like I said earlier; I don't give a fig one way or the other if you provide evidence, but until you do your explanations for tho origins of life remain nothing more than guesses and can be readily dismissed.
Nothing,
The burden of proof is on you as it is on the person who thinks Unicorns, Fairies, Baal, Zeus etc are real. The "bar" is established at ZERO. If you wish to move the "bar" then it is you that must make their case. Christians liek you think you are deflecting away from the obvious but the ball is still in your court and always has been. No matter how much you wish to ignore that burden on you.
I do not fear Muslims
Which religious freedom is being restricted?
The freedom to beat others over the head with your cross?
Nothing fails like atheism
I do not fear Muslims
.
And I don't fear angry kittens. Your point????
Kindness
For you.
A thought to consider without an ego response
Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
The world denounces truth....
Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.
Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.
The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.
Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.
We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Follow me".
It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .
Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
See the truth...
do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..
Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .
Trancsend the temporal world.
Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .
Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing (to change) The Holy spirit (within) will convict you beyond what you think you can do by yourself. Grace is given to those who renounce the world. That are" in" the world but not "of " the world.
Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.
Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....
Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.
You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.
Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.
I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .
Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?
Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.
once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it
You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
Its awsome and It's just between you and Jesus
my testimony
Romans 10:9
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
A personal testimony
Humans do not require a god to be moral.
Religion divides more than it unites.
Religion and science are incompatible.
The scientific method trumps primitive anonymous texts.
The scriptures are ridiculous, offensive and demonstrably false.
One does not require an afterlife to have a meaningful life.
Threats of eternal punishment betray a weak argument.
Schools should be filled with facts, not fanatics.
Your personal experience does not prove god.
An inability to disprove god does not prove god.
And if you believe in any gods the burden of proof is on you.
Kindness is the new prayer troll, so I wouldn't bother actually addressing the person.
HG,
I know, it is for the people who might read that drivel. Thanks though.
Yep, she's a drive-by in her rusty old 1950s pick-up truck, and she has breathed too many noxious fumes from it.
atheists with no control is a mad angry troll
I will believe in a god when all you believers cut out your tongues.
Since HeavenSent and others are busily dumping bible quotes on us, let's have a look at some of the nasty bits that the Christian book of horrors, AKA the bible, presents frequently as instructions from horrid Christian god:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/01/30/feedback-god-heal-amputees
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-heal-amputees.html
Be free and willing to understand the answers
"Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy."
Go learn what this means 'I desire mercy not sacrifice'
AIG? Seriously?
Gotquestions? Seriously?
Here's why AIG is a batshît crazy site filled with bullshît – "By definition, no apparent, percieved, or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the s criptural record".
And the gotquestions site dodges and weaves and never answers the fûcking question.
Prime, please explain to us how Gotquestions avoids the question?
Also reviewing the AIG page, I do not see what you were quoting from that page.
The crap from AIG is right on their statement of faith page.
The gotquestions crap is on their page about why god won't heal amputees. Shifting and dodging. Like god may have cured amputees in the past – we need pain and suffering – we can't know the mind of god...All standard fundiot lies.
You cretins have no problem claiming your god heals lots of things – but it's always stuff you can't see, and stuff for which there is no pre-existing evidence.
"no pre-existing evidence" except for the historical eyewitness accounts?
As for the statement of faith what AIG is stating is that inerrancy by definition.... is this. It is not saying that the fields are wrong 100% of the time, but if they contradict the historical record in the Bible then they are believed to be wrong. What is the issue with that? Are you saying that these fields have never been wrong?
As for GQ, they go through the 7 faith assumptions Bob has.
Why is breaking down these sites assumptions considered ok by you but if someone breaks down your assumptions then it is dodging the issue?
Another good resource is CSLewis Problem of Pain
"no pre-existing evidence" except for the historical eyewitness accounts?
Mike,
There are people ALIVE today that believe they were abducted by aliens, do you automatically believe them? Eyewitness accounts are terrible. The bible is anything but "eyewitness. Oral stories passed on for years, forgeries, copies of copies of copies of translations. If you believe that to be the word of god you are a fool.
"Are you saying that these fields have never been wrong?"
Of course they have been wrong and when a scientist proves the others wrong they give him a prize. When someone tries to prove the bible wrong the answer was to burn them, though that isn't allowed by secular society anymore, SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
What you are saying your book is NEVER wrong, that is a well known lie.
couple of points... first Eyewitness accounts are still used today to put you behind bars,
history, not just biblical, is a valid form of knowledge that you would even pay a university to teach you.
"The bible is anything but "eyewitness. Oral stories passed on for years, forgeries, copies of copies of copies of translations. If you believe that to be the word of god you are a fool."
Re-read Luke chapter 1 and 1 Corinthians
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
You don't put Obama is gay in a news story if Obama is still alive and the story can be verified.
Just like
A certain man from Cyrene, Simon, the father of Alexander and Rufus, was passing by on his way in from the country, and they forced him to carry the cross.
Wouldn't pass while Alex and Rufus are still alive.
Now what faith system do you have that the bible are forgeries? Because a debunked author wrote a book 2000 years after the fact. So then you will believe a person 2000 years removed but not an eyewitness or even records 15 years after the fact. Question how can something that does not claim authorship be forgeries?
"When someone tries to prove the bible wrong the answer was to burn them, though that isn't allowed by secular society anymore, SEE THE DIFFERENCE?"
So the bible is not true because of someone else's extreme actions, which go contrary to the teachings of Jesus?
That is like saying your a lying pig because Bob is an idiot. See how that is so illogical?
"first Eyewitness accounts are still used today to put you behind bars,
history, not just biblical, is a valid form of knowledge that you would even pay a university to teach you."
Mike
Eyewitness accounts are not the only thing that is used to put people behind bars, other cooberating evidence is also required. And if a witness got on the stand and said he say someone walk on water or spontaniously change water to wine we would immediately question their sanity but you are more that willing to accept that because your belief system is invested in it.
My point about science and religion is that in religion questions are not encouraged if they try and prove the dogma wrong and AIG is proof of that. Science is fine until it proves something in your wacky iron age book wrong and then it is condemned. Can you imagine if we did that with some medical book written 2000 years ago? Only medicine that did not contradict the 2000 year old medical book was allowed? That is how nuts you are.
"religion questions are not encouraged"
This is just not true. Go through the Gospels again and see how many questions are asked of Jesus.
Now with every field there is fanaticism, yes and amen, but that does not represent the underlying life and teaching of Jesus.
Now when has science disproved the Bible?
@Mike
No evidence of a global flood, no evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews and their cattle being enslaved in Egypt, let alone being freed from there and traveling in the desert for 40 years. The earth is not a circle held up by four pillars and is not stationary in space.
This is merely a few, but a more important point is that it is not the obligation of the person denying the claim to disprove the assertion, it is up to the person making the assertion to prove it to be true.
"No evidence of a global flood,"
Cmon, luckly your generation has google and you can clearly find that information.
I would have thought you would have gone the other way with it and claim that story was stolen from other works... I guess everyone but you are wrong?
There is evidence of Jewish pottery found in Egypt, but again you have google, don't have time to do it for you.
The four pillars are clearly a metaphore if you read Samuel in context
The verse before
He raises the poor from the dust
And lifts the beggar from the ash heap,
To set them among princes
And make them inherit the throne of glory.
We still use this language today so I do not understand why people stuble on it. Peyton was a pillar for the colts for many years. Follow Robin Leach to the four corners of the globe as he searches for the rich and famous.
Now do you want to get back on track and talk about the Gospels?
from the last post *stumble (that is funny)
Now
" it is not the obligation of the person denying the claim to disprove the assertion, it is up to the person making the assertion to prove it to be true."
If that is true, then you would first have to prove the above before it could be true or its false and since you didn't then it must be false or false. Your own statements show your bias towards turning a blind eye.
@Mike
So all you can do is not actually provide the evidence but claim that it's out there, and give the magical word context to other things.
@Mike
It's called burden of proof you idiot. If you want to take that tact however, if I were to tell you that I have an invisible and completely silent dragon that flies over my house, you would need to prove me wrong or it is true.
Well there you have it...small fragments of pottery were found...the bible is correct and 100,000 plus Jews were slaves and then freed. They have found large bones of ancient reptiles....thus puff the magic dragon is real. If you cannot prove me wrong Puffy is real.
@Pope
Actually the bible estimates about 600,000 men which you would need to add the wives of many and the children, and then you add in the herds (Exodus 12: 37-38). One would think that there would be a massive amount of evidence for such a huge group wandering around for 40 years.
Perhaps God doesn't want to reveal the evidence at thsi time? My faith does not require evidence or science, only the Word of God.
Amen.
@HeavenSent
Then it is your gods fault if you end up being right and I go to hell for not believing.
Mike,
There is absolutely no reason to think the bible is true. Just because New York is a real place doesn't then mean Spider Man is real. Just because we can Google something and find people who believ it does not make it real. If you can do the work and prove there was a global flood you could win a Nobel Prize, but you can't and you won't because it didn't happen though I encourage you to try. Science will change its conclusions if the evidence supports it, you won't change yours no matter what is in front of you and that is dangerous.
HeavenSplooge,
If your god is such a trickster and hides evidence and then punishes people for not believing that just makes him a bigger immoral pri.ck. Good thing that god is just a made up lie.
" if I were to tell you that I have an invisible and completely silent dragon that flies over my house" it would need investigation, but no I would not take you, just like people don't take the bible, at their word without counting the cost first.
As for burden of proof, a very western idea. So is every other civilization wrong?
Christianity should be the backbone of our school system.
Amen.
Bullshyte. Christanity is nothing but a criminal religion that you azzholes want to cram down everyones throat. Keep your sick religion out of politics and peoples bedrooms. Ramen
Wack O Sent strikes again
HS, you need to get l.aid.
HeavenSent is such a loser that no one would ever do the deed with her – yet she thinks she can speak on behalf of other parents.
HeavenSent, go back to your pathetic lonely solitary life, and let those of us happily married parents of beautiful children comment on these things that have nothing to do with you and never will.
Why? We aren't a theocracy. Your sick, twisted, psychotic, schizophrenic, putz of a god has no standing in our secular country.
Everyone who disagrees with HeavenSpunk should support the Freedom From Religion Foundation at
http://www.ffrf.org
to fight their theocracy.
The first question that comes to mind is which Christianity? There are many, many versions.
Secondly, there is the fact that Christianity itself does not lend itself to many forms of educational pursuit, which could impede (and in many ways already does) the growth and progress of our educational system.
This does not even begin to address the many, many issues with your idea, including the individual rights of those children who are not Christian within the system.
Amazing, schools can hand out con-doms, teach alternative lifestyles are okay, teach students to hate religions, don't accept your parents discipline (call 911 report abuse), disrepect the flag, can't sing GOD bless America or the pledge of alligence "under GOD", and the list goes on....
But hand out a harmless candy cane.... And tell the story behind the staff looking object.... Oh my.... World is coming to an end... Arrest those children and their parents.
Shame on us.... Shame on this school.... Shame on this court...
Where is Rev. Wright when you need him or Rev Jessie, or Al Sharpton?
Derp.
Herp derp...hate religion..derp...candy cane Jesus...herp...shame...derp...stupid...
Jesus wrote about the non-believers in the following scriptures:
Fool (66)
Foolish (52)
Foolishly (12)
Foolishness (20)
Fools (42)
Fool's (7)
I'll post one of my favorites about the non-believers of the world.
The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1
Amen.
The fool hath said in his heart that there IS a God, especially one who enjoys genocide and infanticide. DERP!
Matthew 12:38-45
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
Amen.
Why do fundamentalist idiots like vulture hate the constîtution?
Jesus didn't have an original thought....
HeavenSent,
Do you see the Emperor's new clothes too? Only a fool cannot.
Wack O Sent is unable to think on her own due to a serious mental trauma in her life.
HeavenSent
Jesus wrote about
----–
Stop you right there............he never did write ANYTHING. You are lying again Wack O Sent. You are making a mental leap via assumption an dbeing dishonest with yourself
Just remember that if the jesus pencils are allowed so are muslim, pagan, satanic, and atheistic messages. Whats the answer, just keep public classrooms secular.
So what is the problem with exposing our children to other ideas? My family identifies itself as Christian (don't worry – only a couple of "born agains" that we have to put up with). My daughter is exposed to all sorts of beliefs where she goes to school. The thing is here in the Northeast, we are not as moronic in our bearing Witness, or Evangelizing as in other parts of the country. We are more likely to recognize the Right of others to be free of our religious influence. Now if only we could shut up the Knights of Columbus, or at least force them to relocate to someplace like Dallas.
Comparative religion should definitely be an optional class for high school age kids, but when you're talking about young kids, religions of all kind should be kept as far away as possible. Kids are suggestible and gullible, and will just go for the simplistic option. Imagine telling kids about creationism as an alternative to evolution, even if you make it clear that it is unscientific. They will just accept "God did it", rather than attempt to understand the complex process that is evolution.
Definitely a repost is needed for these two ...
Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted.
Psalms 107:17
Amen.
@Joe from CT
It is your job as a Christian to witness and evangelize so that all may hear the glorious message of God!
"It is your job as a Christian to witness and evangelize so that all may hear the glorious message of God!"
Only if you are a dooshebag christian.
I just read a great study done by Duke U, which shows a correlation between people who are "born again" and increased brain atrophy. I know those wack-a-moles were insane in the membrane.
read the study again!!
The researchers found that Protestants who did not identify themselves as born-again had less atrophy in the hippocampus region than did born-again Protestants, Catholics, or those having no religious affiliation.
Thanks!!
Note: those having no religious affiliation
Leo, he did not say anything wrong.... born again have smaller brains
And smaller weiners.
@leo, i said born again. If you were indocttinated young, you are simply brain washed. If you come to the faith after you have read the books, it is likely your brain has shriveled and can no longer think clearly, like one gw bush, nucking futs
All this fooforah just because so many Christians have small pencils and small pencil complexes.
Elaine, you do have to wonder why christians think their super powerful god needs them to sell him to others. Guess he's too weak to do the selling himself.
They don't make gods these days like the Greeks did. Zeus would blow little Christian god to smithereens with one lightning bolt.
OH GREAT! COLLEGE IS OUT AND KIDS HAVE NOWHERE TO GO!
I guess u guys don't know that Zeus needed the Roman Govt to persecute Christians for 300 yrs that still did not prevent YHWH becoming the most worshipped deity in their world and now!
What does Zeus have to do with Rome?
Also, 5,000 years (particularly the last 2,000) of fear, murder, intimidation, coincidence and general idiocy make Yahweh, the Desert Storm God, the most worshipped delusion on the planet.
"I guess u guys don't know that Zeus needed the Roman Govt to persecute Christians for 300 yrs that still did not prevent YHWH becoming the most worshipped deity in their world and now!"
Zues was a greek God, not a Roman god. Zues predates christ by several hundred years. The Roman incarnation of Zeus is Jupiter.
Fundie ignorance knows no bounds.
DERP
Fundie ignorance? More like your own lack of comprehension. You said virtually all I did then turned round to ridicule me! You think I just got up and mentioned Zeus!!! Have u even read the Iliad or Herodotus or Aristotle before. Or u think I'm also in college with u!
@Nii
Pull back your self-righteous indignation. You're making less sense than usual now. Throwing out the names of books doesn't actually make any point, it just makes you look idiotic.
DERP
And to prove to u that I, even though I am a fundie ignoramus, I'm very much in the know- the name is spelled Z-E-U-S not Zues. Where an intelligent being like yourself learnt the spelling I'm hard-pressed to find!
Should read "books or people"
HAWAII
Thank u for reminding me that it is idiotic to prove u read! Next time u give me a reference I know what to tell u! Its just that u r not doing so good covering for DERP u see! Is he ur son? lol
NII = Taliban Type Fanatic
@Nii
Ok, so you think implying (because you didn't say you had read) the Iliad, Aristotle, Herodotus should carry any weight when it comes to the simple fact that Zeus is a Greek not a Roman god? Also, try not to use non-sequitors too much, it just makes you look even more stupid.
Done already Nii?
Man, we got an atheist problem in this country. It is only the atheists who want to take God out of the classroom. I hope Congress wisens up and begins to investigate atheist activities and uncover the hidden atheists.This is unAmerican.
Agreed, and the non-stamp collectors, too. And all the non bird watchers. And especially the non football fans.
Dude, what strain of weed you smoking? I gotta get some.
Moby,
difference is the non-stamp collectors are not suing people who stamp collect. atheists are like their brethern the commies
Snik – the problem is that the stamp collectors want to force everyone to be stamp collectors. And they want everyone to collect the same kind of stamps.
Not liking football us un-American. Blasphemy!
Amen, brother! Atheists have damaged our country, and I hope that it is not too late to bring her back to God.
Hey Snik, every time there is any teaching about evolution you can be sure it is an atheist message. Atheists are in control of the schools and nobody is doing a thing about it. But just let some religious message be brought on campus and BOY! do the atheists come out of the wood work. Of course they claim that it is science, like they are the only ones that know anythig about science. I bet there are more believers in God who are scientists than atheists, it's just that the atheists scream louder. Just examine this forum, there are more atheistic posts than religious posts. But don't let the numbers fool you, although the atheists on this board outnumber the belivers, it is only by a few, however the atheists post more often. I've done the count.
Post by Bo contains a variety of common fallacies and other logical flaws, including the Poisoning the Well fallacy, the ad hominem and circu-mstantial ad hominem fallacies, the ad populum fallacy, and a series of non sequitur statements.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
The post by Fallacy Spotting 101 includes the Suck my Dick fallacy, followed by the Annoying Ass Hole fallacy.
Good one, Tom! LOL
wisens????
So if a Muslim student was passing out copies of the Qur'an, or a Jewish student was passing out pencils that had menorahs and stars of David on them, that would be okay too? How about if a Wiccan child was passing out pentagrams in their birthday goody bag?
@snik, your commie comment provides you are a brainwashed boomer. Their has never been a communist threat in America. It was made up by or leaders to steal or rights. Just like there has never been a muslim threat in America, it is a hoax used to steal or rights.
Snik,
And the difference is stamp collectors are not trying to legislate the rules fro stamp collecting on non-stamp collectors. Stamp collectors do not tell non-stamp collectors they are stupid and will be punished forever for not collecting stamps...
do I really need to go on?
Hey snickers bar, keep your criminal fairytale religion out of the schools, bedrooms and politics. You don't get to cram your bullshyte down everyones throat.
" I've done the count"
So lets see the numbers. If you actually counted (which I find hard to believe because most fundies can't get past the number twenty) then you should have some data about the number of atheists who post.
But you really don't do you? You are just another dumb fundie talking out of your rectal mouth.
For you.
A thought to consider without an ego response
Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
The world denounces truth....
Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.
Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.
The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.
Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.
We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Follow me".
It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .
Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
See the truth...
do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..
Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .
Trancsend the temporal world.
Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .
Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing (to change) The Holy spirit (within) will convict you beyond what you think you can do by yourself. Grace is given to those who renounce the world. That are" in" the world but not "of " the world.
Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.
Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....
Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.
You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.
Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.
I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .
Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?
Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.
once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it
You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
Its awsome and It's just between you and Jesus
my testimony
Romans 10:9
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
Save yourself by blowing your brains out.
The oft-repeated post 'Kindness' begins with a form of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager, and continues with a series of fallacies including Appeals to Ignorance, the Willed Ignorance fallacy, and a series of Red Herring fallacies plus frequent vagueness.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Oh, what the hell are you, the fallacy police? For that matter, why limit yourself to "fallacies?" Why not start to cover the Ailensky tactics too?
You're quoting words from a book written by men, subjected to a political editing process, then translated many time over centuries. It's mythology and you, like so many people since the dawn of civilization, seek answers to unanswered questions and fears in the blind faith of this mythology. Remember, your story-line is similar to that of a hundred other religions, and the depth of your faith is not really unusual. I've seen Monks light themselves on fire to protest attacks on their religion. Millions have died in wars to defend their particular religion. Brainwashing is effective and even more effective when the person willingly participates in the process. You're wasting your life on fairy tales about "eternal life" because you fear your own mortality and need simple answers to complex questions. Let it go and live.
Larry L, you're quoting other spiritually dead heads who taught you that mantra, so your soul fries. It is the reason that Curly Howard (3 stooges) kept telling the fools of the world "tried to think, but, nothing worked" woo-woo! Sadly, you and the rest of your non-believing cronies, prove how many will be in that lake of fire for walking that wide path in life.
Love you too HS. 😉
And HeavenSent, you are like Winnie-the-Pooh:
"“When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.”
-and-
"“Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?”
Hey kindness, do us a favor, be kind, go see your jesus, in person. You are one sick and brainwased person. No original thoughts of your own, eh?
Yes, @Kindness and HeavenSent are "Bears of Very Little Brains" - can you imagine what they would come up with if they were to think for themselves?!
*Sigh* - maybe we are better off letting them stay with their magic book - at least we'll know what we're dealing with. Just let's not let them rule the country with it.
I think kindness needs to screw heavenspooge. They are are both from the same 'cloth."
If the religious activity is sponsored in some way by the school or government, then it is a violation of the First Amendment.
Kids swapping pencils is protected speech...unless it was some form of hate speech or a disruption to a class or something where they would have a good reason to ban the swapping of these pencils.
To those who think lawsuits should be fought regardless of the reason for the lawsuit: Get a clue. If there is damage done there is a basis for a lawsuit. Just because you personally don't like lawsuits, don't want money being handed out to victims, and don't like any opposition to your particular panty-twisting ideology doesn't mean a thing to a judge.
You file a case and you can argue it out. That's what a lawsuit is. It doesn't have to be for money. It can be to strike down a bad law, to seek injunctive relief against someone or something, to put a stop to something, or to ask for justice when you have been wronged.
If you have some redneck idea that all lawsuits are just about the money you should go back to drinking alone with your mongrel dogs and get off the internet.
I believe you're correct, but couldn't the teacher allowing the handing out of the pens be construed as somehow a violation of the Establishment Clause. It seems like this was a damned if you do, damned if you don't for the school.
I'm sorry to say I didn't read the whole article the first time. The article says it much better than I could.
The schools are the legal guardians of the children when at school.
That means they can teach or ban anything they want within reason as long as it does not violate anyone's rights.
These cases are where one student or a group of students want their "freedom" of religion to violate the rights of everyone around them. Those other children have the right to a secular education environment free of religious bias, indoctrination, etc.
When that girl wanted to give these pens out (probably put up to it by her parents for just this reason), the fact remains that her religious views do not trump the rights of the other students, the legal responsibilities of the school, or anything else.
In short, they don't really have a case against the school. If they want to turn their child into a religious zombie that is useless to society and can't hardly think straight or do any useful employment, they'll have to do that without any support from the government.
Frankly, that sort of thing is clearly child abuse, but we are still in the religious dark ages here.
Kindness
For you.
A thought to consider without an ego response
Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
The world denounces truth....
Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.
Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.
The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.
Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.
We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Follow me".
It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .
Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
See the truth...
do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..
Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .
Trancsend the temporal world.
Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .
Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing (to change) The Holy spirit (within) will convict you beyond what you think you can do by yourself. Grace is given to those who renounce the world. That are" in" the world but not "of " the world.
Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.
Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....
Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.
You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.
Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.
I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .
Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?
Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.
once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it
You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
Its awsome and It's just between you and Jesus
my testimony
Romans 10:9
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
The fool hath said in his heart that there IS a God, especially one who enjoys genocide and infanticide.
Post 'Kindness' begins with a form of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager, and continues with a series of fallacies including Appeals to Ignorance, the Willed Ignorance fallacy, and a series of Red Herring fallacies plus frequent vagueness.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
I bet Fallacy Spotting 101 got beat up a lot in 8th grade for being a continual smart-ass.
TROLL
Good Morning, Tom Tom
I'm curious what you have against Fallacy Spotting today? I thought you were all about pointing out the fallacies and falsehoods posted on this board by religious fundies. FS101 doesn't strike me as any more obnoxious than wikipedia, but perhaps I'm in a generous mood today.
Cheers,
Shadowflash
Limitations on government involvement have been clearly altered in regards to Religious Expression: “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” and “abridging the freedom of speech.” Government's power is, and probably always be undefined, but why do people think they have more rights to freedom of expression when it comes to religion in the first place. I would think an attorney wouldn't have touched this case at all. Just sayin....
Why don't these religious idiot kids go to religious idiot school instead of public school? Problem solved. Or why don't these religious idiot kids exchange religious idiot jebus toys at Sunday School?
This really makes no sense.
It is possible they do not have the income to pay for parochial education
How nice, parochial schools discriminating on the basis of money. Again, why can't the religious idiots exchange the jebus toys at Sunday School?
Christians know it's a shame that some kids have the spiritually dead heads for parent(s).
Would you send your kids to a school run by priests?
That's like sending them swimming in Australia in a pool of chum.
This seems to me to be a no win scenario. If the kids are stopped from handing out the Jesus pencils, they and their parents sue the school. On the other hand if they are allowed to hand them out, someone gets royally offended (there's always one) and sues the school. Either way someone ends up p!ssed and the school gets sued.
Unfortunately, you are correct. There are some cases where there are clear violations of the first amendment, but this really is one of those cases where the parents are either trying to cash in or are just trying to claim religious preference.
I don't see why the religiots insist on sending that garbage to school. What, you can't just give out pencils? You have to give out Jeebus pencils?
That is the problem. These bibletards insist on forcing their beliefs everywhere. If they did not insist on trying to force their way into the public schools, none of these lawsuits would ever happen.
Separately, religions should be sued for false advertising.
This is a tough one. On one hand, the deluded kids have a right to their delusions, and no school should be able to dictate otherwise. However, on the other hand, if the teacher allows the deluded children to hand out the party bags with the Jebus stuff they could be seen to be condoning proselityzing, which is a tricky area in a (supposedly) secular education system. I suppose allowing the kid to hand out the party bags in the school library would have been a fair compromise. I don't think the girl should have been stooped from handing out Passion Play tickets though, or maybe I'm just biased 'cos it's my favorite Jethro Tull album.
Pencils with a quote by Friedrich Nietzsche, Sigmeund Freud, Christopher Hitchens and the lot is perfectly acceptable though.
Yep. Do you know why?
Because philosophy doesn't demand conversion, or the threat of he ll fire to those whom don't obey, unlike the hate filed book of the bible. Anything funded by the public cannot allow prostalitizing.
Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted.
Psalms 107:17
Amen.
Wow, HeavenSent, you are a hateful person. I'm a pagan, and no, I don't really care what your views are on that (blah blah blah, bible verse, going to hell, blah blah, another bible verse). However, your Jesus, I like, always have, to an extent. I do not believe he is the, "Son of God," as it were, as we're all children of the divine, but his philosophies on how to treat others, even others we do not agree with, I can respect. But, for someone who (supposedly) follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, you really ought to think about how you talk to other people. It's my understanding that you cannot get to your heaven just by accepting Jesus, but emulating the way he lived. You, if your posts are any indication, do not try to emulate your Jesus.
"It's my understanding that you cannot get to your heaven just by accepting Jesus, but emulating the way he lived"
Actually, you can be the biggest d ick on earth and still go to heaven. You do not need to emulate jeebus at all.
All you have to do is accept jeebus as the savior, confess your sins, and repent. It's all good. Christianity does not expect any moral behavior whatsoever. You can act any way you want for as long as you like.
As long as you accept, confess, repent before you croak, it's all fine with christians.