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 Minister-turned-atheist Jerry DeWitt speaks at ReasonFest in Kansas earlier this year.
June 13th, 2012
10:47 AM ET
Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheistsBy Dan Merica, CNN (CNN) - Jerry DeWitt entered the ministry when he was 17, launching a 25-year career as a Pentecostal preacher. He traveled all around his home state of Louisiana, preaching and ministering wherever he could. All these years later, DeWitt, 42, is still on the road, and now takes his message all over the United States. But the nature of that message, along with his audience, has changed dramatically. DeWitt is now an avowed atheist, and his audiences are made up of religious “nones,” the growing number of Americans who are atheist, agnostic, humanist or just plain disinterested in identifying with a religion. Today, DeWitt preaches a gospel of disbelief. During his speeches, he talks about the process of leaving his preacher job. “If you don’t believe, then you will be like me - you’ll suddenly find yourself where you only have two choices,” DeWitt told a group in Johnson County, Kansas, earlier this year. “You can either be honest that you don’t believe ... or you can pretend that you do,” he said. “Which is what so many people are doing and that is called faith.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The transition from preacher to outspoken atheist has not been easy, and DeWitt is trying to smooth the way for other former believers. He is executive director of Recovering from Religion, an organization founded in 2009. Its slogan: “Thousands of organizations will help you get INTO religion, but we’re the only one helping you OUT.” But a relatively new effort goes a step further than his own group by focusing on helping clergy in particular. In March 2011, a coalition that includes national groups such as American Atheists, the Freedom From Religion Foundation and the Richard Dawkins Foundation helped launch the Clergy Project, which is aimed at giving doubting and atheist preachers a community in which they can talk about their disbelief. The program's ultimate goal: to help unbelieving preachers to “come out” in real life. A safe online community The Clergy Project’s key component is a private online community of active and former pastors discussing their conversions to lives of active disbelief. It lets congregational leaders come out anonymously, using an alias. “It is important to focus on any group of people who are in a lot of pain,” said Linda LaScola, a co-founder of the Clergy Project. “That is why the Clergy Project exists, and it wouldn’t be growing if there wasn’t a need for it.” When it launched last year, 52 clergy signed up for the online community, according to LaScola. A little more than a year later, 270 members are contributing to the message boards and connecting anonymously with one another. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter According to LaScola, the community includes some rabbis, imams and Catholic priests, but the majority are Protestants. Members are barred from disclosing what is discussed on the boards, but DeWitt said it’s a blend of humor, advice and encouragement. DeWitt, who left his congregation just over a year ago, is considered the group’s first graduate. “It gave me confidence to come out,” DeWitt said of the Clergy Project. “Knowing that I was not alone, that I was not a fluke, that I was not a freak of religious nature, but that this is a process; it most definitely gave me confidence and a purpose.”  Jerry DeWitt, far right, in his days as a minister. DeWitt said that after connecting with people on the message boards, he realized he faced fewer obstacles than some others who are trying to leave the ministry. For example, DeWitt's wife and son already knew about his disbelief, while other questioning preachers had not yet told their families. “I think it is important when you are struggling that you talk it out, that you write about it, that you find support,” said Teresa MacBain, acting executive director of the Clergy Project. “I still try to reach out to people who are questioning, who are doubting, clergy people and laypeople alike, and let them know they are not alone, that there are people who care.” How does he feed his family? For 44 years, MacBain was involved in some sort of ministry, from organizing worship music to being a senior pastor at a Methodist church in Florida. At a recent American Atheists convention in North Bethesda, Maryland, MacBain first publicly announced her atheism, inspiring a roaring round of applause. American Atheists President David Silverman walked onstage and hugged her as MacBain began to cry. "I was the one on the right track, and you were the ones that were going to burn in hell," MacBain told the crowd. "And I'm happy to say as I stand before you right now, I'm going to burn with you." She said she sees plenty of growth potential in the Clergy Project. In the near future, she said she hopes to incorporate it as a nonprofit and begin raising funds for clergy who have decided to leave ministry jobs. She also wants to compile a group of employment recruiters to help former clergy find new jobs. DeWitt, for his part, is struggling financially and said his house could be foreclosed on in the next few months. For former preachers in search of work, their old skills can be hard to translate into new fields. What references do former ministers use if they have disappointed their congregants by leaving the pulpit? MacBain said that some “formers,” as she calls ex-clergy, have left their hometowns for new jobs in fields ranging from radio to counseling. To aid those transitions, Recovering from Religion has started the Clergy Professional Relief Fund, dedicated to “helping ex-ministers have a soft landing after coming out of the ministry.” Though little money has been collected so far, the hope is to help former ministers with job training and relocation expenses. “Even if you have a degree in divinity, that doesn’t really mean anything,” DeWitt said. “That is the biggest fear that a nonbelieving clergy member has. How does he feed his family?” Losing faith, losing friends As a young fresh-faced minister, DeWitt was first confronted with his disbelief when he “became the person who got the burden of preaching about hell,” he said. “I really loved the people I preached to, I loved them like family. So imagine preaching that if you don’t do this, you are going to burn in hell. That wasn’t easy for me.” After doubt about hell, DeWitt began to research other schools of thought about God and belief. He began to develop other doubts, about certain biblical translations and about healing. “The next big issue was the failure of prayer,” DeWitt said. “People are passing away, whenever we pray for them to live. People aren’t getting jobs, whenever we pray for them to have jobs. “The harder we tried to alleviate suffering within our church, it seemed like the worse things got,” he said. “It didn’t seem like prayer made any difference. It just continually crushed my heart.” When DeWitt decided to come out as an atheist, some in his congregation appeared shocked. “I was very heartbroken actually because his family means so much to me; they are actually like family,” said Natosha Davis, 30, who attended DeWitt’s church for four years. “I was very heartbroken for him that he had to go through that and struggle.” Many congregants were less charitable. “Some people where he lives just totally turned their backs on him,” Davis said. “He was ostracized, excommunicated. It is like he has a disease, but he doesn’t.” When DeWitt runs into people he used to preach to, he still averts his eyes. Going to the post office and to Walmart, he said, can be stressful because of the possibility of running into a former congregant. “It is because places in which you were once admired now you are suddenly scorned or pitied,” DeWitt said, who admits not having many friends anymore. “It makes for an extremely uncomfortable life.” And yet DeWitt said his atheist life mirrors his old religious one in some key respects. In some ways, he said, he’s still a minister. “The origin of the symmetry is me, is my personality, my love for people, my love for ministering,” DeWitt said. “What I have always tried to do is to minster from where I personally am at. “When I was 17, I preached what I believed was best for people at the time; when I was 20, it was a little different; at 25 it was different, too,” he said. “And now at 42, I am still the same guy preaching what I see is best for people.” soundoff (5,298 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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A few questions should help shed light on the relationship between religion and rational thought.
The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the field of:
(a) Children’s fairytales;
(b) Medieval mythology;
(c) New age pseudo science; or
(d) Christianity
You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are a:
(a) historian;
(b) geologist;
(c) NASA astronomer; or
(d) Christian
I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am
(a) a delusional schizophrenic;
(b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly
(c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or
(d) your average Christian
I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am
(a) A gifted psychologist
(b) A well respected geneticist
(c) A highly educated sociologist
(d) A Christian with the remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient facts.
Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:
(a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;
(b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;
(c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or
(d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.
I believe that an all powerful being, capable of creating the entire cosmos watches me have $ex to make sure I don’t do anything “naughty”. I am
(a) A victim of child molestation
(b) A r.ape victim trying to recover
(c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions
(d) A Christian
The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:
(a) Architecture;
(b) Philosophy;
(c) Archeology; or
(d) Religion
What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:
(a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they are morally obliged to believe on pain of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;
(b) Religion can make a statement, such as “there is a composite god comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;
(c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth; or
(d) All of the above.
If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:
(a) a deep psychiatric issue;
(b) an irrational fear or phobia;
(c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or
(d) my religious belief.
Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free and my own salary is also tax free, at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the right to tell others what to do. I am
(a) A sleazy Wall Street banker
(b) A mafia boss
(c) A drug pusher; or
(d) A Catholic Priest, Protestant Minister or Jewish Rabbi.
What do the following authors all have in common – Jean Paul Sartre, Voltaire, Denis Diderot, Victor Hugo, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant, David Hume, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, John Milton, John Locke, and Blaise Pascal:
(a) They are among the most gifted writers the World has known;
(b) They concentrated on opposing dogma and opening the human mind and spirit to the wonders of free thought and intellectual freedom;
(c) They were intimidated by the Catholic Church and put on the Church’s list of prohibited authors; or
(d) All of the above.
The AIDS epidemic will kill tens of millions in poor African and South American countries before we defeat it. Condoms are an effective way to curtail its spread. As the Pope still has significant influence over the less educated masses in these parts of the World, he has exercised this power by:
(a) Using some of the Vatican’s incomprehensible wealth to educate these vulnerable people on health family planning and condom use;
(b) Supporting government programs that distribute condoms to high risk groups;
(c) Using its myriad of churches in these regions to distribute condoms; or
(d) Scaring people into NOT using condoms, based upon his disdainful and aloof view that it is better that a person die than go against the Vatican’s position on contraceptive use.
Jesus---he was an IDIOT!!
I just watched a video on oyutube that says Jesus might have been studying Buddhism those first 30 years of his life. Would explain the 3 wise men. Interesting stuff.
There is also speculation that he spent time in Egypt, learning magic tricks from the experts (hekau) there... as Moses certainly did - Voila! Miracles!
The Blood of Christ repels you!!
Buddhism in first century Palestine? That's abou Jest as idiotic as historical Jesus deniers.
Only for new members of this blog:
The Atheists' Creed 2012: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
(references used are available upon request)
@reality
Do you put "only for new members of this blog" because anyone here fore even a short while knows your just reposting this same crap over and over and over......
opps, sorry Reality. thought you were one of those Bible thumpers. My bad.
stop spweing nonsenses ... mindless !!!!
Saving Christians like H. Dao from the Infamous Resurrection Con--
From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.
To wit;
From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:
"Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.
Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.
Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.
The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.
Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.
The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "
"In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM
The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.
With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:
An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,
p.4
"Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."
p.168. by Ted Peters:
Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "
So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.
I see so many religionists rant and rave about how Atheists are “not tolerant of believers and have no respect for their faith”. To non believers this claim is absurd. For intolerance of various religions is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, Muslim and many other orthodox communities. Matter of fact, the Bible and Pentateuch commands religious intolerance in MANY verses, even to the point of KILLING people for their beliefs. Here then, are a few choice verses that show just how intolerant these religionists are of other believers and nonbelievers. We shall start with the two verses that helped to inflict one of the biggest mass murders in history, the Inquisition.
Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18
Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
I know you mean well Edwardo, but please don't remind them that they are suppose to kill us.
@Vulpecula – they have their cross hairs on my forehead as I type this. They want to put me behind a 100 mile long fence, and fly over and drop food to me. Then, we I will die off because I can't reproduce... ummmm something to that effect.
"Atheists Get Out" is already trying to figure out how to kill us.
Actually, it is only the Old Testament that lists the god-approved atrocities:
To wit:
•Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.
•Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)
•Joshua: ◦Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.
◦Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."
◦Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
◦TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.
•Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.
•Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.
•Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon
•Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.
•1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.
•David: ◦2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.
◦2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.
◦2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.
•1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.
•2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.
•2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.
•2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans
•TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Old Testament/Torah.
The New Testament has only one major atrocity, that of god committing filicide assuming you believe in this Christian mumbo jumbo. Said atrocity should be enough to vitiate all of Christianity.
Of course after reading the following, one might conclude that all the killings listed in the OT, is mostly myth:
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
Baby, that's so old school and happened centuries upon centuries ago. Why do you have to dig so far in the past to make your statements seem relevant and make all those Christians and Jews out be evil and wanting to get your @$$? You have a lot of catching up to do. They aren't your enemies. Not really. But something else is and it's far more formidable than you'll ever be able to imagine, and it doesn't play nice, nor does it wish to and you're on the menu, spiritually speaking.
Oh, your one of these gay atheist. I read about that whole fenced in think. That guy is a nut case. I'm just an atheist myself, but more power to ya. Besides, Atheist girls are hard to find, so the more for me!! 😀
Atheism and religion is for angry and simpleton people.
It's ARE, higgy.
you don't know where you are going like you claim to know simple man–
I don't remember knowing of any Christian fearing hell. Why should we? We already know where our eternal distination is, well, at least for us who are followers if Christ.
Atheists are even less worried than christians about going to so imaginary hell.
Followers "if" Christ? Higgy...Come sit on my lap...
We know. "Distination"?
Oh your not the least bit scared of not getting it right and going to hell? Or did the pope scratch Hell, too? BULL I was raised RC and they pounded Hell into my head. God is a jealous God, so how are your so sure that you have 2 coins to give the ferryman?
Atheism is obviously for ignorant people who can't define the difference from Christians and Catholics.
"ignorant people who can't define the difference from Christians and Catholics."
Might just as well leave a bloody thumbprint.
Would the real Tom Tom please stand up?
Standing.
Nope. Sitting. And watching my little herbie-liscious post.
Edwardo, this witless wonder shows up around this time most nights. It must work the second shift at the diner.
Edward, you should know which one is the real one.....I am not as evil as the fake one.
@Tom Tom – the real one – I've heard emulation is flattery.
Oh, I agree, Edwardo. The poor thing is desperate for attention, too.
Come flatter me Higgy...I have something going, a cat couldn't scratch.
...He's to busy playing with Tom Thumb, again...Tom put him back. pull the zipper up, and join reality.
Bible Fun Fact:
Are you female? Have you ever engaged in premarital s.ex? Even if you're married now, did you have s.ex even once before you were married? Maybe when you were a teenager? 98% of American women have. Do you know what the bible says is the punishment for such wh.orish behavior? Let's check and see:
"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of v.irginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the wh.ore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)
Well, looks like we must drag the non-virgin woman to her father's doorstep and there, with help from the whole town, stone her to death. Sorry 98% of women, Yahweh says you have to die. I'm guessing you're going to Hell, too. (Please note this punishment does not apply to men who do the exact same thing.)
*** I’d wager that last 2% of women left after we stone the rest to death will be right popular with the fellas
Ahhh Lets continue a little...
The bible then says some women must be stoned.
However the bible says only those without sin may cast the first stone.
And the bible says that we are all sinners, so no one can throw stones.
But the bible says some women must be stoned.
On a side note, will someone tell DeWitt to ease up on the "just for men"?
If that's his natural hair color then I too will abandon my faith.
@Ticker
You said, "The bible then says some women must be stoned.
However the bible says only those without sin may cast the first stone.
And the bible says that we are all sinners, so no one can throw stones.
But the bible says some women must be stoned."
Yup, the bible is clearly a bunch of garbage.
Now, since I'm free of sin, I could cast the first stone. Since I don't wish to harm anyone, do I have to aim? Or can I just lob it in the general direction?
Unless you have a scripture to prove that a young lady was stone to death for having s ex before marriage, I will remain a believer. Don't you know that the O.T. were laws given to the JEWS????
We are NOW under the GRACE of GOD through CHRIST.....WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU GET?
EVERYBODY must get stoned! -Bob Dylan
The part where you got your GED off the back of a pack of tortillas.
.Wow your wisdom astounds me, your just a s exist pig. Exactly like the all loving, all forgiving God you pray to. You are a pathetic example of a man.
Atheists don't believe in original sin of adam and eve so could they through the first stone? Not that I would. My sense of morality is better than that.
Tom, Tom,
Higgy says that she has gone to college!!!
p.s. actually, I think she said, "I have went to collage" 🙂
sowwy imposter Tom.
the NT doesn't replace the NT. you should read your bible more closely. jesus himself says you cannot drop a single letter from the OT - do you know better than jesus? the NT adds to the OT - it doesn't replace it. still follow the ten commandments? why would you? that's OT? see my point?
She went to college? Where? Tijuana?
Religion does NOTHING...NADA.... for humanity, it only brings dispare.....get out of it and return to Christ. People are using relligion to twist the Word of God and many are falling away because of it.
HIggy, it's "DESPAIR".
You're really bad at this.
If you're going to spoof Tomette (or should it be Tomisina?), you can at least learn to spell. In any event, to give credit where it's due, she *does* seem pretty intelligent. I say this even though she just trolls and trolls and trolls. Tomasina: Why do you waste your time trolling like you do? Seems a such a waste.
@HeisGod,
Isn't it one of your "sins" to steal (another person's screen name) and to lie (impersonate another) and speak evil in their name?
Rudy, why do you read and read and read my posts? What does that say about how you spend your time?
But perhaps you are the cat that walks by his lone, and all things are the same to him.
Tom Tom, Do you have proof God said that, can ya e-mail it to me. Facts not biography, FACTS like a recording of God talking about this.
Nah. I just make up crap here.
HiggyIsaTroll: I don't read the majority of your posts, Tommie, but I do read more of them than a sane person would. In any event, maybe my interest in watching a mind wasting itself is akin to watching a train wreck. It's a shame, but somehow entertaining. Why not try writing some poetry? An baiting limerick shouldn't be beyond your capabilities.
Why? To entertain you? Why would I want to do that? I'm just entertaining myself here, and writing poetry would not be fun for me.
If you think I'm wasting my time, so what? It's my time to do with as I wish.
Of course your time is yours alone. I just can't help but wonder why you spend it as you do.
Just prayed for a bag of Krugerrands to appear in my arms. Bad news: nothing happened.
According to Bubba DeWitt this proves God does not exist.
Wow, thank God I don't belong to your ignorant and powerless atheism group.
Is this real Tom or fake Tom?
I'd LOVE a bag of funyuns
Just because you think that God is "fake" doesn't mean I am fake.
It's the troll.
Someone please make me a believer!
Do you believe you will wake up tomorrow?
No one can force you to believe in God, much less believe you will wake up tomorrow.
Hey, troll. Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
Figure it out.
Make me a chocolate sundae.
Edwardo – You are only posting partial of the scriptures, try reading the whole chapter, you are confusing yourself, buddy.
Ignore the troll, Edwardo. Obviously, it's losing the fight.
We got this, we will win. LOL
Even if that was the case, god does a terrible job of getting his "perfect word" across to his "imperfect creation". I've read those scriptures. My mother was a minister. If you think I haven't read the bible, think again. I grew up on a church pew. I am 52. I can honestly tell you, I have never, ever witnessed anything I would call a miracle... EVER.
@Tom
when someone jacks my handle, i find it complementary. feels like they have a crush. that we upset them enough that they take the time to do it is WIN. hahaha.
What are you, 15? LOL? Who even uses that crap anymore? Really, if your argument is so lame you're ashamed to post under your own name, maybe you should wake up and acknowledge that you're simply wrong.
Oh, I'm laughing at the little things, Booty. They must be desperate.
Edward – God clearly has made His Word clear to an imperfect creation...it's the creation who doesn't want to understand and live by His Word.
@Tom Tom (the fake one) – so god made an imperfect creation? Something perfect, cannot create imperfection. Your statement makes no sense.
Being an Athesists is a contradicting in itself, you have to believe that there is a GOD not to believe in! It's like saying "I know there's a God, but I don't belive in him!"
No, it isn't. Try this: I know there's an Easter Bunny, and I don't believe in him.
See how that works?
you could very well be the dumbest person on the planet.
David,
Shake the cobwebs a little.
It's simple.
We do not believe there is a god because there is no evidence of one.
Insert unicorn, Zeus, etc, etc for god and maybe you will understand?
I believe in Jesus Christ even though I never seen Him.
@David
You said, "Being an Athesists is a contradicting in itself, you have to believe that there is a GOD not to believe in! It's like saying "I know there's a God, but I don't belive in him!""
Is being this moronically stupid a requirement to be religious?
@David – So, are you saying that you have to believe that there is giant, butt-loving 2 toed sloth having it's way with your backside right now – in order for you to believe that there is not one?
I know there's a boogyman in my bedroom closet. I don't believe in him.
It's the only reason I am still alive to read this incredibly dumbwitted post.
Not so. He is stating that your belief in God is something he won't believe unless you can prove it, not that he believes there is a God. Every oceanic scientist in the world believed that a certain species of pre-historic fish no longer existed, but then after one was caught in net, they realized they were wrong. Belief s not owned by religion. You can't twist everything as fact to save religion, only the men of who wrote the Bible were privy to that.
@ Tom Tom The only reason you believe in God is because when your mind was still mush, someone planted their own beliefs in you. It's really time now little man,to think on your own, You can do it, Your a big boy now.
inanutshell: what are you blabbering about? Are you a troll or did mine fool you?
"Being an Athesists is a contradicting in itself, you have to believe that there is a GOD not to believe in! It's like saying "I know there's a God, but I don't belive in him!"
And the award for the most moronic post of the day goes to....
I think "David" is really Chad. There can't be that many completely stupid believers...
Tom you jumped into the middle of a conversation where someone asserted that religion failed Andrea Yates...hence my remark. You need to follow the whole conversation. My point was that blaming religion for the failure of individuals who do not follow the tenets of that religion, is like blaming science for the failure of individuals who do not carry through with what is known through science.
Tom is a fool and will never get through her puny brain and heart.
Susie – There are countless examples of religion inflicting all kinds of horrors upon humanity. Your god has drowned babies in great floods. He even had a she bear kill 40 children for making fun of a disciples bald head. You worship in religion, what most people would despise in humanity.
Susie, I cut and pasted your own words. I read the whole conversation.
HIggy, if you haven't passed out yet....
it won't be long now.
Get a heart that will help your brain.
Higgy, really this is just pathetic. You should definitely not have another.
I know, we need to stop drinking heavily...we are talking to each other
I know what his problem was....he was in a RELIGION no wonder he is an atheist. Religion is man made, Christ never spoke about it. DeWitt overlooked what Christ really did and the purpose of salvation. He was never rooted up in Christ, he was rooted up in religion that brings a person down.
Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer. Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away. Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house. He could make a lot of converts that way. If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to kissing God’s ass. If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.
Edwardo – LOL, somebody missed Christ's message, but of course, how can you understand when you can't see the Light in darkness?
Tom you jumped into the middle of a conversation where someone asserted that religion failed Andrea Yates...hence my remark. You need to follow the whole conversation. My point was that blaming religion for the failure of individuals who do not follow the tenets of that religion, is like blaming science for the failure of individuals who do not carry through with what is known through science
That is only part of the answer. The other part is that he was born intelligent, curious and with the ability to reason. He probably was brainwashed (abused) as a child to believe in this religion crap and had his reasoning abilities squashed. When he started thinking with logic and reason he made the very tough decision to be honest with himself and his family.
Former clergy make very good atheists because they know all the BS tricks religion uses to manipulate people.
So do tell - bring me into the light. What is this "message", that I'm not getting?
Higgy the problem solver. I've got a problem that only you can fix. Come attach yourself to my...and tell pappy all about that evil ol' Satan.
Watch out! Make sure Higgy doesn't get "rooted up" in your.....
The bible is so full of contradictions. Here is a sample of just a few.
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
@Edwardo "Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer."
Not quite.. you are leaving a couple extremely important provisions.. If you read the entire verses, you'll see.
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. John 15
Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” Matthew 21
@Chad – not sure if I get your point. How many zillions of prayers go out per hour, and are never answered? When was the last time you saw a mountain moved? An amputee healed? Someone brought back from the dead? The scriptures make some mighty big promises, of which none have ever been delivered.
"if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done."
Are you able to do this mountain-tossing feat, Chad? How about even a mole hill? You must have doubt, then...
@Edwardo "How many zillions of prayers go out per hour, and are never answered? When was the last time you saw a mountain moved? An amputee healed? Someone brought back from the dead? The scriptures make some mighty big promises, of which none have ever been delivered."
@Chad : how do you know that "zillions of prayers" are never answered?
I have personally experienced dramatic answered prayer.
and, I have also presented requests that didnt get the result I wanted.
Is that unusual? Did your parents give you everything you asked for?
Let me ask you a question: what is Gods greatest desire?
@OTOH "Are you able to do this mountain-tossing feat, Chad? How about even a mole hill? You must have doubt, then..."
=>no.. and the reason is one of three things, which one I know not..
1. lack of faith
2. wrong motives, You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures James
3. It isnt Gods will.
@Chad it doesn't say "if your motives are right". It says just ask and I will do it. It doesn't express stipulations. If it's all God's will, why even ask? He's going to do what he wants to do anyways. Besides, I thought we had free will, and didn't have to adhere to "his will".
@Edwardo "it doesn't say "if your motives are right". It says just ask and I will do it. It doesn't express stipulations. If it's all God's will, why even ask?"
I dont think you read any of the quoted scriptures.. they all specify stipulations, and James calls out motives..
Prayer is Gods way of enlisting us in what He is doing Dont know who said that.. but it sure is true.
@Chad – A perfect being has no desires or wants. It also would not be jealous, vengeful, or require praise or worship.
@HappyMadison "A perfect being has no desires or wants. It also would not be jealous, vengeful."
=>says who?
God does not require praise or worship.
@Chad – having wants and desires means that you are incomplete. Incompleteness is incompatible with perfection. Jealousy and vengeance are products of a lack of control and insecurity – also incompatible with a perfect being. A perfect being would not ask to be worshiped either – because the being is perfect and not in need of worship. How do you feel that perfection is compatible with these qualities?
@HappyMadison "having wants and desires means that you are incomplete. Incompleteness is incompatible with perfection."
@ Chad "you have an odd view of "perfection", as it requires no relationships..
No, God is light, and truth and love, and wants a relationship with us.
=============
@HappyMadison "Jealousy and vengeance are products of a lack of control and insecurity
@Chad "not always.
Jealousy can also mean: "solicitous or vigilant in maintaining or guarding something:"
Vengeance is just repaying.
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I bet Christopher Hitchens is desperate to get out of hell to come preach God's living Word and that's what gonna happen to him if he doesn't return to God.
Post by 'HelsGod' is essentially a form of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Are you using Pascal's Wager again Higgy? Must be getting desperate.
Higgy, your beer goggles are getting thicker.
Life must be miserable living in fear all the time. Try atheism where we don't fear going to hel l and we are free to follow our evolution given morals. We are such a happy bunch that don't have to give in to artificial boundaries. There are many websites out there to help you if you are interested.
You sure do love to gloat about all the people you think are in heII or are going to heII. Not very christian of you, higlet.
i'm sick of atheists forcing their religion on my country if you don't want to believe fine but leave me and America alone
AGO, Iran will welcome you with open arms. It's a theocracy such as you seem to dream of.
Most of these Atheist used to Christians themselves.
There is no such thing as Atheism for these people, they are what Christ called them out to be BACKSLIDERS.
Post by 'HelsGod' is an instance of the ad hominem fallacy.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
It's tough to leave America alone when you are an American.
You sir, come off as being uneducated.
Atheism is no more of a religion, than anarchy is a type of government.
atheism is unAmerican
@Atheists get out
You said, "i'm sick of atheists forcing their religion on my country if you don't want to believe fine but leave me and America alone"
No atheist is forcing you to believe something you don't want. No atheist is asking you to shed your delusion. You are free to believe whatever bullshit you want. Last time I check, stupidity wasn't illegal, even if you are moronically so.
You are free to remain as ignorant as you please. You are free to believe in fairy tales. You are free to have an imaginary friend.
Only when you, and your ilk, try to force anyone else to conform to your mental illness, will you hear from us.
It's not your country, it's our country. An it was never a christian country. it was a secular country with a christain majority. Do yourself a favor and look up Deist, and American Enlightenment.
I leave America alone, when you leave Britney alone!!!
Shouldn't you be washing your white robes for tonight's cross burning?