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FBI recovers rare first-edition of the Book of Mormon
The FBI recovered a stolen first-edition of the Book of Mormon.
June 14th, 2012
04:15 PM ET

FBI recovers rare first-edition of the Book of Mormon

By Carol Cratty, CNN

(CNN)–Law enforcement agents have recovered a rare first-edition copy of the Book of Mormon that was reported stolen from a Mesa, Arizona, bookstore in late May.

The FBI announced Thursday the religious book, first published in 1830 in New York, was located two days ago in Herndon, Virginia, and a suspect was arrested.

The Book of Mormon is considered scripture by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints, on par with the Bible.

Jay Michael Linford, 48, is awaiting extradition to Arizona, where he faces charges of theft and trafficking in stolen property.

CNN's Belief Blog: the faith angles behind the big stories

According to a court affidavit, the owner of the Arizona bookstore - identified only as Witness 1 - reported the theft to the Mesa Police Department on May 28.

The bookstore owner told police she had been in business with Linford, who brokered the sale of pages of the rare book on her behalf.

The woman said their business relationship had ended but Linford knew she kept the first-edition in a locked fireproof box in a file cabinet and had access to it around the time she believes it was stolen. According to the affidavit, Witness 1 said Linford had a key to the box and to the location where the book could be found.

The bookstore owner told police once she realized the book was missing - along with its fireproof box - she contacted Linford and he "denied having the book or having any knowledge of its location."

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The affidavit says the bookstore owner also reached out to people who buy and sell rare books to alert them that the book had been stolen.

A Texas man identified as Witness 2 replied that he recently had bought two pages of a Book of Mormon from Linford for $7,500 and that Linford said the book was owned by a family in North Carolina. The pages were shipped to the Texas man, who later determined they did come from the Arizona woman's first-edition.

The FBI's Art Theft unit and other agents investigated and found the book after locating the suspect staying with an acquaintance in Virginia, the affidavit said.

The FBI would not estimate how much this edition of the Book of Mormon might be worth. The Arizona bookstore owner placed the value at $100,000. However, the Mesa Police Department consulted experts who gave an estimate of $40,000 because pages had been taken out of the book and sold.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Books • Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints • Mormonism

soundoff (2,069 Responses)
  1. Peteyroo

    It astonishes me that people who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth can be so full of hate. How is that possible? I don't believe for even one minute that Jesus is/was real. The same goes for his magical dad. I am an atheist through and through, yet I believe that the so-called teachings of this mythical figure are pretty good. "Love thy neighbor" and "Thou shalt not bear false witness" and "Judge not lest ye be judged" are pretty good rules to live by. So why do the acolytes of God ignore them?

    June 15, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • midwest rail

      I'm not sure who first said it this way, but it goes something like " If your God hates the same people you do, you can be fairly certain that you have created Him in your own image. "

      June 15, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Are the rules set forth in the Bible optional? Did Jesus say, "Love thy neighbor, but only if you want to"? "Judge not unless you really don't like someone"? "Thou shalt not bear false witness unless the guy is really bad then lie your ass off about him?"

      June 15, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • love

      means being willing to tell a sinner what awaits them. If that seems judgmental of harsh , it isn't. It would be more cruel to let an atheist flounder in a wasted lifetime of stupidity than to point out the error of their thinking.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • JWT

      Well love thats your opimiom – and you know the old saying about opinions – at least in your care they are 1 and the same.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
    • careabouttheworld

      I think peteyrot, that you shouldn't be casting the first stone...hypocrite. I've read plenty of your posts on here and they are not filled with love and compassion.
      As Americans we have a right to say what we think. But right now, with the risk of a Cult member possibly becoming the President of the USA, we have to be vigilant and let people know how your mormon church really started. Everyone deserves to know the truth: not the fluffy, happy propaganda that you put on billboards, TV and young missionary faces.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      love, it seems particularly harsh. Such judgment is well above your paygrade.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • careabouttheworld

      and again peteyrot, your compassion shines through as a typical mormon with your snarcky remark. Thankfully people like you just can't shut up. You always have to get the last word and you get meaner and meaner. Everyone, keep in mind, that ROMNEY has already proven how little he cares for anyone....this little petey is trying to show us they are trained that way.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      careabouttheworld, my posts are filled with wonderment at the hatred and hypocrisy of Christians who pretend to follow the teachings of their savior. I am an atheist not bound by God's rules. I don't pretend to be something I'm not. I must sadly admit very little if any compassion for the hate-filled posts of mainstream Christians towards their Mormon brethern.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • careabouttheworld

      ROFL! Oh WHATEVER peteyrot! You're one of those Borderline Personality disorder people that get on sites like this to split people because you get off on seeing people fight. LOL! I should have figured you out. Wow. Not wasting anymore time on you now that you've finally admitted what you are.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      can't care about the world, are you accusing me of being a Mormon or an atheist? I consider the Mormons silly and their beliefs absurd. I feel the same about you however. All Christians have foolish beliefs in the supernatural–magic. It is all nonsense. I simply don't understand how you profess to follow a pacifist who preached love to the world (that would be the mythical figure Jesus of Nazareth) while spewing hatred of others' beliefs.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
  2. GO MITT!!!

    Since the early 1800s people have tried every possible method to get rid of the mormon church. They have committed murder, theft, fraud, lawsuits, false publications and outright lies. Even the state of Missouri put out an extermination order on all mormons. The last I checked the mormon church is still around. I would say it is not working.

    June 15, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
    • vulpecula

      chicken pox is still around too. doesn't mean it's right

      June 15, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • Ben

      Vulp, I love you.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
    • peter

      i know you will always be around like the church of scientology–We put you in utah in the 1800s and you can't be happy with that–you just don't get the message–we don't want you around–as far as mitt i will be sitting out the gen election like many other republicans–go mitt–correct me if im wrong–though this doesn't matter as far as the truth to your religion or not–are not mormons in the us leaving the church in droves? google it "mormons leaving in droves" your own president talks about it and it's on mormon approved sites

      June 15, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
    • vulpecula

      There was an artical here on CNN within the last week talking about Americans leaving religion in droves. Maybe you were thinking of that one? I was mostly young people.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • Jonah

      And....."when you kick mormonism, you kick it upstairs!". Writing false, slanderous lies actually makes people curious about what these people are so afraid of and always brings more converts, so, Peter and unreality, I am sure we don't express our thanks nearly enough for your hard work! You are certainly doing your part!

      June 15, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • peter

      jonah–actually most people don't know that mormons have another book of God –gospel–if anything mitt running is not going to help your church. When people find out that mormons believe in another gospel and that it is the word of God they will shun it–

      June 15, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Jonah

      Peter, dear friend, you are a blasphemer and you cursed the living Christ right here in front of every one. I don't think you have anything we want to hear.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • vulpecula

      Love you too Ben, in that brotherly way. After all is said and done, we are all cousins to some degree, decendent from one woman. So says the scientists, and most of the major religions. Just a difference of opinion as to when. I have a hard time believing the 6000 years some people beleave.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • peter

      The book of mormon,another testament of jesus christ is not the word of God–it is blasphemy–cursed is your prophet and the christ which he wrote and preached about in his book–cursed is the anti-christ spirit from which he dictated the book of mormon.
      You sir are no christian and it would of been better for joeseph smith if he not of been born.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • vulpecula

      @jonah
      you said, "I don't think you have anything we want to hear."
      now, now. It's an open forum. play nice. And you shouldn't be speaking for others. I know I don't share your view about not hearing what he has to say. Please, I don't think you want to have to tell your friends that an atheist had to tell you to check your ill will toward another.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • vulpecula

      @peter
      You too! my my. Have you forgotten Jesus's words? One thing I can say about the LDS. If you somehow make the mistake of letting tem into your house, they won't go all psycho on you when they find out your not a LDS too.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Peter, smarten up my confused friend. There is no way you are the follower of Jesus of Nazareth. He preached love, not hate.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • love

      demands Truth, Truth can appear harsh to sinners but it is more loving to show sinners the errors of their way. Love warns atheists of the wrath to come, rather than just allowing them to perish in their stupidity.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • vulpecula

      @love
      study Jesus's teaching some more please. You not projecting his teachings. Learn to communicate without that ill will. LDS are great at it. I've had afew corner me before.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Jonah

      Vulpecula, Peter and I go way back, though he knows me by another name. He once defended me. I dislike the things he writes, but I actually like Peter and I intend to do my best to defend him at the judgement, though he is making it very difficult.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • vulpecula

      You two aren't that bad. But the Evangelical dude is harsh.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
    • GO MITT!!!

      They have a vacine now for chickenpox. Pretty much all gone.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • careabouttheworld

      GOm...you're talking about the history of the mormon church. Anybody read about the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Want to find out the real history of what mormons did in every town they moved too? Want to find out why they were kicked out? LOOK IT UP! Don't trust mormon.org...that's only one-sided propaganda.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • yesiammormon

      careaboutheworld,

      Ouch! you and two other people are so convincing that I just can't stand it anymore and I have to leave the church. The meadow killings are just too much for me to handle. Again, I can't thank you great people enough for helping me to see the light. Lets see you all convinced me that the church does not give enough money for aid to other countries. $750 mil just isn't enough in 20 years, the meadow killings, and Brigham Young said some things that others don't like. Thanks again for the wonderful insight and helping me see the light of my bad ways!

      June 15, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
  3. Robert

    When someone can come up with the missing "Golden Tablets", then you may have me.

    June 15, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • vulpecula

      It's my understanding the golden tablets were teleported back up to space with the angels for safe keeping.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
    • Jonah

      38 ¶Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
      39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (New Testament, Matthew, Chapter 12)

      June 15, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • sam

      @Jonah – that's super convenient.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • TR6

      @Jonah:” there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (New Testament, Matthew, Chapter 12)”

      So your bible is saying that all the signs and miracles it says jesus performed didn’t happen?

      June 15, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
  4. Answer

    Hey fred,

    Don't try to validate your wish for an afterlife through me. It doesn't exist.

    You really want that.. glad for you. Fact is you'll just be dead and you can not accept that reality.

    June 15, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • fred

      You also require that delusion of the after life otherwise you would not have such a strong belief in it. Do you not find it interesting that your delusion of after-life also is consistent with your delusion of identical purpose of existence between a whale and human ? One must believe they are nothing more than animal if purpose is the same. The ability of an animal to have awareness of God is also identical to an atheist.

      June 16, 2012 at 1:17 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Fred, you have to be totally fucking stupid, as you have demonstrated on numerous occasions, to not recognize that we are animals. We apparently have greater cognitive ability than all other animals, but we are still animals, with many still working on shedding belief in stupid childish myths.

      June 16, 2012 at 1:23 am |
  5. peter

    jonah–it's not me or postmormon or reality–it's christendom that rejects your religion–book of mormon-But we don't hate the sinner we hate the sin

    June 15, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • midwest rail

      The Big Lie as practiced by the modern faux Christian – " love the sinner, hate the sin ". Then they go on their merry way spewing hatred, ignorance, and bigotry.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Peter, you are still full of dog poo. How can anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth be so full of hate? It makes no sense.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
  6. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    June 15, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • Robert

      Neither is organized, "Religion."

      June 15, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      Yes, believing that you are in telepathic communications with an invisible man in the sky definitely changes things, and none of those changes being good ones either....

      June 15, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • vulpecula

      um, I don't think he was communicating telepathicly. From what I've read, he found the gold plates using his seer stones, he was able to decifer them. They had what looked like eygyption hyroglyphs on them. I beleive too there was something about 4 or 6 angles guarding them.

      I'm an atheist, and I like being informed. Let's at least get the facts right.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • vulpecula

      dang, ran too post chains together there. Ingore my last post ^

      June 15, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • prayer is

      not a Mormon activity, prayer is communication with God . Mormonism is not a God centered religion, it is a false, anti- Christian group. Prayer change to a Mormon would be to accept the Lord as your Savior and abandon Mormonism.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Still praying for personal wealth and for your favorite sports team to win?

      June 15, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
  7. dudley

    Did they say, "On par with the Bible?"

    June 15, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
  8. Jonah

    1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (New Testament, 2 Timothy, Chapter 3)

    There is no doubt that Paul forsaw people like Reality, Peter, Pastmorm, and others who regularly post mean and vile slander about a humble, meek, and unpretentious people like the Mormons, who did absolutely nothing to deserve such treatment at their hands. I would like to ask them, what did these people do to deserve all of this? They did nothing and Paul's advice to you and me is "from such, turn away!"

    June 15, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • Answer

      Another end times..

      Please specify a date.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • peter

      jonah–cursed is your prophet joeseph smith and the false christ he wrote about in the book of mormon,another gospel of jesus christ–You sir believe the claims of a false antichrist-repent and reject the christ of joeseph smith--jonah and if you do always remember to reject claims of other gospels–like the book of seedon,another testament of jesus christ writen in the 1970s

      June 15, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • vulpecula

      Another end times you say? Hey! Is that you Harold Camping? Give me a date when you figure it out. I need enough time to schedule my rapture party again.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • sam

      Sweet, let's get this party started.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
  9. vulpecula

    I love evangelicals. I had a great time watching one last night on youtube. Andone familiar with the farting preacher?

    June 15, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Instead of watching a farce on the internet, why not actually go to an Evangelical service? Or turn on some good old fashioned Evangelical radio? Afraid your spirit might be awakened?

      June 15, 2012 at 6:07 pm |
    • vulpecula

      Not afraid in the least. If one of my friends chose to invite me, I might go. It's not like I'm going to turn into a piler of salt. Hey! It's good to know your familiar with the farting preacher though, even if it seems like you don't have a sense of humor.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • Answer

      Comedy gold.

      Afraid – spirit – awakened.. lol

      Utterly absurd .. you want others to be as insipid as yourself Evangelical?

      June 15, 2012 at 6:12 pm |
    • sam

      Evangelical may well be the farting preacher.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Evangelical, I'm afraid I'd throw up.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
  10. Ben

    Dude, PastMorm is epic. I'd never even hear of the Journal before...need to look that up for the next time they come for a visit. (Am I the only one that invites them in for a cup of coffee ;)?)

    June 15, 2012 at 5:51 pm |
    • peter

      why are you not a mormon yet? why did you not accept that the book of mormon,another testament of jesus christ is the word of God–what are you waiting for when you keep inviting them in

      June 15, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • vulpecula

      I don't have coffee in my house. I did buy some beer just now though. first time I've had it in the house in yers. really.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:56 pm |
    • peter

      vulp–no more a.a meetings for you–lol

      June 15, 2012 at 5:59 pm |
    • vulpecula

      Got to have a beer with the hot salsa and chips. Hey! everyone heard about Obamas new plan that came out today? About young illegal immigrants?

      June 15, 2012 at 6:05 pm |
    • Ben

      Yeah, they're not so keen to share a beer with me...
      And I've already devoted enough of my time to one wacky belief system. I just don't have the energy to incorporate another.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
  11. peter

    petey–the more i read your posts the more i think the jury is is out on you being a "atheist"–you defend mormons of their claims but call yourself an atheist–i seen this tactic before–im an "baptist" or im a "catholic' but mormons ect ect

    June 15, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • peter

      mormons call it "lying for the lord"

      June 15, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Peter, I am an atheist through and through. I consider the Mormons just as ridiculous as the mainstream Christians. Since you are a mainstream Christian attacking a Mormon, I will defend the Mormon. Were you a Mormon attacking mainstream Christians, I would be defending mainstream Christians. But let me say clearly that I find all religion totally absurd. What you and you compadres are doing by attacking Mormons so viciously, I feel is the pot calling the kettle black. You feel that Mormon belief is completely absurd while clinging to your own equally ridiculous beliefs as natural and normal. It just seems like you hate everyone. Is it not enough to say that Mormons, while fellow Christians, have different practices? Why do you have to pour on the haterade? Jesus of Nazareth–were he real and not a mythical figure–would weep at such behavior.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:01 pm |
    • LinSea

      I've been LDS my whole life and never once did I hear anyone at church condone, encourage, or even discuss something as ridiculous as "lying for the Lord." I only see that phrase on comment boards like this as an accusation made by people who are NOT Mormon.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • follow stupid

      to its root and you'll find atheism

      June 15, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • peter

      linsea–i caught more than a few,alot of mormons claiming to be a "baptist" ,"catholic" or "evangelical" on the internet –that jonah guy doesn't make any bones about who he is or what he believes and i commend him for it–Because it all comes down to this–Either the book of mormon is the word of God or it is not-and thats how you flush out the mormons lying–claiming" to be christians online

      June 15, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
  12. Reality

    Only for the new Cylons:

    I come from a long line of Cylons!! But don't we all???

    BTW, the Book of Cylon is available at your local libraries in the Fiction section along with the Book of Mormon.

    Any sightings of Moroni yet ? He has no wings so travel is slow for this "pretty, horn-blowing thingie". But you can hear his horn for miles and miles so Be Ready!!!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    June 15, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • peter

      when talking with a mormon you are not talking with someone who believes like we christians do–They are exactly like scientologists–the mormons call it "lying for the lord"

      June 15, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      The traditional Bible is just as ridiculous as the Book of Mormon. This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • peter

      petey–go to an atheist article or a chatroom

      June 15, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Peter, as a good and decent atheist I feel compelled to stand up against your foolish, hateful rantings as a service to humankind. What better place than right here where the hatemongers are concentrated?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • ME II

      @peter,
      Who you calling "we"?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • Answer

      This is an atheist chatroom. We love giving you internet space to see your delusions. XD

      June 15, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • peter

      petey–tell me one thing i said that is foolish about mormons–i did not say anything what they don't believe–i don't hate the sinner ,i hate the sin

      June 15, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
    • Answer

      Everyone else who isn't religious hates the belief and not the believer. XD

      June 15, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      How is your delusion any better than a believer other than it is your delusion?
      Let me help you. You are godless so you cannot know the things of God. God is not part of your reality and remains an unknown. This is why atheists come up empty handed when asked about the origin of life or purpose of a first cause.
      Believers understand man is different among the animal kingdom. We understand our purpose is given by God whereas animals cannot know God. We understand what God means when God says I will wipe away every tear. We understand that regardless of happens on earth only that which is eternal continues.
      Tell me atheist how the purpose of a whale and human are the same.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
    • vulpecula

      @peter, what do you mean by "we christians" (I noticed you didn't capitalive christians). The christians are made up of many different beliefs. In fact a lot of christians I now each have their own beliefs.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:53 pm |
    • Answer

      @fred

      Calling me godless is a great compliment. Fools like yourself who want your god are just delusional.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:59 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Answer, you are right. It is the belief, not the believer.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:05 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      Godless? It means without God or god or gods. This is your belief and is every bit as delusional to a believer as Christ is to an atheist. That was not my question. My question is how is your delusion any better than a Christians?
      I believe there is an eternal place where my soul will find peace and you believe there is an eternal place where your soul will find peace. Your peace is non existence and my peace is unity with Christ. Regardless if God is real or imagined we have both made provision for the afterlife. How is yours any better?

      June 15, 2012 at 6:08 pm |
    • Answer

      Re-read your own loonie remark there fred...

      Godless- when you can't produce a god for yourself. Man are you that dense?

      June 15, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • Answer

      The very next thing you will remark is that your bible shows you your god. That is your next move.

      When that fails – it always fails – you'll be quoting scripture that you think will validate your empty hand.
      When does a book even telling you that someone who has lived in the past equate to anything showing as proof of divinity?

      Read you fool. Get that link associated!

      June 15, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      Again, how is your provision for the afterlife better than mine?

      June 15, 2012 at 6:22 pm |
    • Reality

      Getting down to the nitty-gritty:

      AS THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD

      Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney)

      "Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

      Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

      Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

      Jesus and his family (as does BO and his family) had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented.

      The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

      Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

      Some added references to "tink-erbells".

      newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm

      "The belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and As-syrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an As-syrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."

      Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallu-cinating:

      "TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."

      And tin-ker- bells go way, way back:

      "In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel called Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."

      "The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hitti-tes and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "

      "The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "

      For added information see the review at:

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel

      June 16, 2012 at 12:03 am |
  13. peter

    pastmormon–must of been hard with those family ties to the cult to reject it–i salute you, wish we had more like you

    June 15, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
  14. LynnC

    The sun is shining today. Flowers are blooming. No rain until next week. Glad to share this info with you all.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • vulpecula

      It's also hot as hell out there. I just came back in a few minutes ago.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
  15. Jack

    Good afternoon everyone, you all are more than welcome to visit ... thestarofkaduri.com

    June 15, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
  16. pastmorm

    Mormons really do believe they will become gods after this life, if they live a wholesome, pure life while on earth. So that means they believe that GOD was once a man. Can you imagine the megalomania it takes to actually believe that?

    http://youtu.be/3HSlbuli7HM

    June 15, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • Jon-Boy

      Wow...that is scary...no wonder EVERYONE thinks they are dumb....THEY ARE!!!!
      Stupid Morons....What a cult!

      June 15, 2012 at 5:00 pm |
    • Ben

      I wonder: in Mormon theology, where did this Elohim come from? and if he had a human beginning, who was his father? and so on and so on. Like, where's it all start, and what causes man to ascend to godhood (a blessing from another god, Ancient Aliens, magic, science?)?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:56 pm |
    • vulpecula

      what do we do if an alien lands and it is a Mormon missionary?

      June 15, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
    • Jim

      This is hogwash.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • Ben

      Mormon missionary at your door? ALIENS!
      How great would that be if the aliens were like, "We come from the planet Kolob with a message from Joseph Smith"? lol

      June 15, 2012 at 6:14 pm |
    • Ben

      *knock knock.
      "Who is it?"
      "It's Elohim, baby. Let's get it on."
      *puts Marvin Gaye album on the player; slowly removes white robe.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
  17. Jon-Boy

    As a former LDS student and Utah native I can agree with all the hatred and complaints on here. Mormons are PSYCHO and not smart enough to see their religion was started by a liar and fool. Mormons are just sheep and you can't feel sorry for a sheep.
    You can only shave it down and make something useful out of it.

    June 15, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      The entirety of Christianity is ridiculous and absurd. Why single out the Mormons when you're all a bunch of crackpots?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • Answer

      It is simple fact that they can't get over their own. They have to believe that theirs is the one.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • Robert

      Well, Smith may have been a psycho, but he was certainly no fool. Look what he was able to convince people to believe.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • T

      I would rather be a sheep than a goat!

      June 15, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
  18. jimmy

    I wish joseph smith had never been born!
    Not a bad idea when they shot him...should have shot ol Bring'em Young too....then we would be done with these fools!

    June 15, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Another example of Christian charity and love.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
  19. pastmorm

    I posted this earlier and received so many hateful, cruel responses from mormons, that I wanted to respond to that and post it again. Mormons come across as sweet, angelic, family-oriented people UNTIL you question their beliefs. Then they go for your jugular. I know, I'm a 7the generation. My ancestor is actually in the D&C (a mormon book). Leaving the church (having my name withdrawn from the records, not excommunicated) was arduous and painful because of the hate that was shown to me from the people that should have been loving instead. Be warned Americans, mormonism is a cult. Everything in the post below is ACTUAL quotes from The Journal of Discourses: Papers written by one of their most important Prophets. Mormons believe that EVERYTHING a prophet says is the absolute truth of the law and cannot be disputed. Sounds like the Taliban huh?

    Before any of you consider a mormon president, consider what some of their beliefs are based on. Also keep in mind that they are taught to be the best propagandists from an early age. I should know. I was one of them.

    Troubling Quotes from the Second Prophet (leader) of the Mormon Church

    Brigham Young said your own blood must atone for some sins.

    "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 247; see also, vol. 4, p. 53-54, 219-220).

    Brigham Young said you must confess Joseph Smith as a prophet of God in order to be saved.

    "...and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312).

    Brigham Young said his discourses are as good as Scripture.

    "I say now, when they [his discourses] are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 264; see also p. 95).

    Brigham Young said he had never given any counsel that was wrong.

    "I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161).

    Brigham Young compared his sermons with scripture.

    "I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom...I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

    Brigham Young said you are damned if you deny polygamy.

    "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).

    Brigham Young said you can't get to the highest heaven without Joseph Smith's consent.

    "...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

    Brigham Young boasted.

    "What man or woman on earth, what spirit in the spirit-world can say truthfully that I ever gave a wrong word of counsel, or a word of advice that could not be sanctioned by the heavens? The success which has attended me in my presidency is owing to the blessings and mercy of the Almighty . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 12, p. 127).

    Brigham Young said Jesus' birth was as natural as ours.

    "The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood–was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).

    Brigham Young said that God the Father and Mary 'do it.'

    "When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 218). "The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). Note: the late Bruce McConkie who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy stated "There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events..." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742).

    Brigham Young said that Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Spirit.

    "I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

    Brigham Young taught that Adam was God.

    "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken - He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50).

    Brigham Young made a false prophecy?

    "In the days of Joseph [Smith] it was considered a great privilege to be permitted to speak to a member of Congress, but twenty-six years will not pass away before the Elders of this Church will be as much thought of as the kings on their thrones," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 40).

    Brigham Young comments about blacks

    "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

    "In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

    "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

    Now if that last portion didn't strike you as unbelievably horrible, than imagine this....Mormons are taught to believe every word of their prophets as though they were the words of God: Unquestionable. And these are quotes from just one of their prophets.
    Now imagine the President of the USA being Mormon.....

    June 15, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • peter

      past–do mormons have to confess that jesus sent joeseph smith with the gospel and is his prophet? did you? and those who do not are of the anti-christ?

      June 15, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      All Christians–Mormon or not–are full of horse feathers.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • peter

      petey–mormons are not christians–they believe in a gospel written by joeseph smith–

      June 15, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Peter, you are full of dog poo. Mormons are Christians. They are different from most mainstream Christians perhaps, but they are indeed Christians. The name Christian tells you that a Christian follows the Christ–Jesus of Nazareth.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • yesiammormon

      pastmorm,

      Again wow!! you just about have me convinced to leave the church. You and Doc Vestibule together have me nearly in tears that I have spent 10% of my income on a mall in SLC Utah and that I admire a past prophet (Brigham Young) who had his own thoughts and opinions. This is the first I have heard of a mall, but I hope it makes a ton of money? I wonder if they will give me a 10% member discount in all the stores? Just for the record I don't have to believe everything that comes out of one of our prophet's mouth and I can question anything I feel like. I am a member of the church because I believe in it and I choose to affiliate with it. I need to go take a nap because all the brainwashing I have been through over the years has made me tired. If I decide to leave the church what kind of advise do you have for me? Please advise me on what to do next.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • pastmorm

      yesIam....with your strange tirade, I'm not sure if you're unstable or just angry that people are finding out the truth about the mormon church. And for the record, since someone else mentioned that they don't have to listen to their prophet...you know you just lost your temple recommend for saying that.
      If you can read what Brigham Young said and still be ok with being a mormon, you're a sad little creature and not adding, but taking away from this world.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
  20. Jarom

    Mormons are just stupid as are all religions.
    I wish we could take all you religious nuts and bury you!
    There is nothing wrong with anyone that a shotgun and shovel will not fix!

    June 15, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Atheists get out

      Bring it on atheist!!!!! this is why we Christians keep our guns locked and loaded

      June 15, 2012 at 5:23 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Folks, Jarom here is a fine example of atheist immorality.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      It is simply unfair that atheists are born with high IQs while you good Christians are born dumb and without imagination.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Ah, another fine example of atheist immorality weighs in. Arrogant much?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:34 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Evangelical, being an atheist does not mean being immoral. There are a good many immoral Christians and immoral atheists just as there are a lot of good and decent atheists and good and decent Christians. You've got your head up your backside, my friend. Time to lay off the haterade.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • Evangelical

      "Time to lay off the haterade"

      LMAO. You say this to me? Did you read the root post?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • vulpecula

      @Atheists get out
      Atheists have their guns too. don't think we we disagree with the right on all things. I'm all for gun rights and prior military. Your gun talk doesn't scare anyone.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • Answer

      No matter how much the religious spin their bile it will always be bile.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.