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June 21st, 2012
10:56 PM ET
2 communities linked to polygamous sect sued for alleged religious discriminationBy Terry Frieden, CNN Justice Producer Washington (CNN) - Two communities dominated by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its jailed leader Warren Jeffs have been sued by the federal government for alleged religious discrimination against citizens who don't belong to the polygamous sect. The Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department filed suit against Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, and their local utility companies for taking actions including denying or delaying water to nonmembers of the FLDS faith. The government says over time some actions have been taken by the communities under state pressure to end the discrimination but that federal authorities are seeking a court order to prevent future discrimination by the defendants. The government also is demanding monetary damages be repaid to those harmed by the discrimination. The government stressed the fundamentalist offshoot has no relationship to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which ended polygamy more than a century ago. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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FLDS, mormon.... same thing
You fundamental wack jobs will never take this country! I'm overseas fighting psychos like you called the Taliban. I'll be damned if it happens right here in my own back yard and NO you can't have it in your small hick town either.
What happened to 'Freedom of Religion"?? No, I don't agree with them (LDS), but I don't agree with Catholics either, yet, I don't think the goverment should have the right to SUE them. Remember, if the government can successfully sue just one religious sect, no matter what sect it is, it can set a precedent and sue ANY religious sect - for any reason. The government is systematically stealing our rights - in this case, our right to freedom of religion (which, incidentially, is WHY this country was founded to begin with) while we pal around on our social media or bury our heads in the newest reality show. And - dear Crusader - thank you for fighting for your country – you have my utmost respect for that, but I think you have been brainwashed by the military into losing sight of why you are fighting. It's supposed to be to defend our rights, and that includes freedom of religion whether it is the religion you agree with or not.
Kindness
This is my experience... Thank you.
MY personal testimony.
A thought to consider without an ego response
Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
The world denounces truth....
Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.
Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.
The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.
Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.
We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Follow me".
It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .
Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
See the truth...
do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..
Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .
Trancsend the temporal world.
Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .
Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing (to change) The Holy spirit (within) will convict you beyond what you think you can do by yourself. Grace is given to those who renounce the world. That are" in" the world but not "of " the world.
Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.
Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....
Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.
You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.
Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.
I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .
Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?
Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.
once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it
You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
Its awsome and It's just between you and Jesus
my testimony
Romans 10:9
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved
I Follow Christ . I never wanted proof. I just had faith.
HE WHO follows Me, walks not in darkness,” says the Lord (John 8:12). By these words
of Christ we are advised to imitate His life and habits, if we wish to be truly enlightened and
free from all blindness of heart. Let our chief effort, therefore, be to study the life of Jesus
Christ.
The teaching of Christ is more excellent than all the advice of the saints, and he who
has His spirit will find in it a hidden manna. Now, there are many who hear the Gospel often
but care little for it because they have not the spirit of Christ. Yet whoever wishes to understand
fully the words of Christ must try to pattern his whole life on that of Christ.
What good does it do to speak learnedly about the Trinity if, lacking humility, you
displease the Trinity? Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous
life makes him pleasing to God. I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it.
For what would it profit us to know the whole Bible by heart and the principles of all the
philosophers if we live without grace and the love of God? Vanity of vanities and all is vanity,
except to love God and serve Him alone.
This is the greatest wisdom—to seek the kingdom of heaven through contempt of the
world. It is vanity, therefore, to seek and trust in riches that perish. It is vanity also to court
honor and to be puffed up with pride. It is vanity to follow the lusts of the body and to desire
things for which severe punishment later must come. It is vanity to wish for long life and
to care little about a well-spent life. It is vanity to be concerned with the present only and
not to make provision for things to come. It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not
to look ahead where eternal joy abides.
Often recall the proverb: “The eye is not satisfied with seeing nor the ear filled with
hearing.”1 Try, moreover, to turn your heart from the love of things visible and bring
yourself to things invisible. For they who follow their own evil passions stain their consciences
and lose the grace of God.
See for yourself.
all though i love going against the church,... marriage is a sacred union between two ore more persons,... let them get married to who they want,... [winks] to the churches hatred of h0m0s3x4@al marriage
I had hoped at first, that the government was finally taking action against these towns for the fraud they have been committing for years. They take millions in money from you and I, based on false pretenses, and brag about it. They call it bleeding the beast. You see only the first marriage is considered legal. The ones after that, and there can be many more, are not.So the subsequent wives are considered 'single mom's. And you and I pay for their kids. So the father can have 60 or more children, but not pay their support. YOU do. Since polygamy has been illegal for over one hundred years, I cannot understand why UT and AZ do not do something about this. Also, the girls are forced into marriages at very young ages. With men who are sometimes 60 years old. They have no say (the girls). The are also denied education after about age 14. THAT also is illegal, but Utah and Arizona will not put a stop to it. Why not? Read the book When Men Become Gods and see how they do all this. Then write your Senators and Reps. Tell them you are tired of supporting these kids and their parents. If they want to have 60-100 kids, fine, but support them yourselves. Don't ask me to.
The only reason the LDS abandoned polygamy in the first place was so that Utah could gain statehood.
TIMELINE:
1847 – Mormon settlers arrive in Utah (including Brigham Young)
1850 – Utah application for statehood declined
1856 – 2nd application for statehood declined due to the LDS admitting to practicing "twin relics of barbarism," slavery and polygamy
1857 – President Madison sends troops to quell the rebellion in Utah amidst accusations of polygamy and other immorality. Mountain Meadow Massacre
1858 – Young deposed as governor
1862 – 3rd appliation for statehood denied. US Congress in the process of prohibiting plural marriage by federal statute.
1871 – Young tried for polygamy
1877 – Young tried for his part in the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Dies the same year.
1879 – US congress upholds Morill law that bans polygamy
1882 – Application for statehood denied as Utah failed to meet requirement of "a republican form of government"
1880-89 – Various federal laws passed imposing penalties for polygamy. Ban of Polygamy an official requirement for entry into the Union.
1890 – "Divine Revelation" comes to Mormon prophet Willford Woodruff in which he states that "my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriages forbidden by the law of the land."
1896 – Application for statehood accepted
It's so amazing, how timely a divine revelation can be.
best words i can give. "love is built off of four things: communication,trust, understanding and comprimise." nowhere in there are those values restricted to one gender or the other.
I know, I know, this sounds stupid, but I wonder, perhaps it would be a good idea to have communities where the citizens of the community share the same values of life – whatever it may be, after all, don't we have ghettos now, and there doesn’t seem to be anybody being “jailed” for it.? The problem here is that some people were being almost “officially” discriminated against, but again, I have been in communities where there was a lot of discrimination – it just wasn't “almost official”.
It's like this, I'm white, I use to live in the Los Angeles area, I was very nervous if I had to drive through the City of Watts, or any other African-American community, I felt that if by some chance I would have a car accident I would have been mobbed, perhaps injured because I didn't “belong” there.
I was once in a “Chinese community at noon time, I didn't think anything about it, I stopped and went into a small ethnic restaurant, there was very noticeable conversations going on—I could hear it, but the moment I stepped in and the people saw me all conversations stopped. I felt very unwelcome, but nonetheless I ordered and ate my meal—in silence.
Another time, for the week-end, I was in a community for the that I wasn't familiar with; I looked up the address for a church of my denomination, I went there, it happened to be a “black church” I was treated very friendly, but someone handed me the address of another church and said I would be more “comfortable” there. I took the hint.
But the common denominator that brings them all together? Bake sakes!
Cool story, bro.
Not a cool story, bro. It has no aliens in it.
@Betty Crocker: You come along a spoil things. Well maybe we could make exceptions, I just couldn't do without those “bake sales”.
@God told me:O' yeah, I forgot to mention that they are all aliens, they are going to try to convert all of us and then transport us out of this world in spaceships and make us slaves in their own world.
So a follower of jesus (god is love, love everybody like yourself, blah, blah, blah) is advocating the partitioning or segregation of the USA? Interesting development in the country that claims to be the land of the brave and the home of the free...
Prayer changes things
People have prayed for months that you stop posting, yet here you are. Prayer doesn't work .... proven
great intellect my ass
Ah look Mirosal, the troll that follows all Atheists around is out of the asylum for the weekend.
Nah, he's not out, his mommy is still in bed with the new "uncle" she brought home last night from the bar.
Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!
Prayer changes things
Proven
Topher, as much as your opinion can't be trusted based on the fact that you have made it clear that you believe the buybull is 100% true, there are some facts based in reality that state very clearly that children can benefit from being the child of a same gender couple...even further making your belief and opinion unworthy of trust.
The following is updated information within the last decade:
(http://livinglifewithoutanet.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/what-does-science-say-about-gay-relationships/)
"The belief that hom.os.exuality is abnormal and unhealthy is prevalent in the Christian community, and is the foundation of a great deal of Christian bigotry. For the time being, however, bigotry is not enough justification to subvert the consti.tution. Throughout the ongoing debate over the definition of marriage, Right Wing bigots have cited the damage caused by hom.ose.xuality and hom.os.exual relationships in an attempt to justify legal discrimination against gays.The scientific evidence on the matter is out there. (It has been for many years.) Had we simply trusted evidence years ago, there would be no more debate — at least no debate worth taking seriously. Sadly, very few people are aware of the evidence, and wouldn’t know where to find it if they wanted to look. This article presents some of the most compelling conclusions from recent scientific studies.
Children of Gays: One of the most common accusations is that children of gay parents are more likely to suffer developmentally, more likely to become gay, or more likely to have emotional problems. In 1996, Mike Allen and Nancy Burrell published a peer reviewed study on the subject. They found the following: ”The results demonstrate no differences on any measures between the heteros.exual and hom.ose.xual parents regarding parenting styles, emotional adjustment, and se.xual orientation of the child(ren). In other words, the data fail to support the continuation of a bias against hom.ose.xual parents by any court.” (The full text is available through PsychNet if you’d like to read it. There is a modest fee for membership.)In 2006, Gregory Herek replicated the conclusions: ”The data indicate that same-se.x and heter.ose.xual relationships do not differ in their essential psychosocial dimensions; that a parent’s se.xual orientation is unrelated to her or his ability to provide a healthy and nurturing family environment.” (Also available through PsychNet.) In 2001, Judith Stacey and Timothy Biblarz discovered something rather startling. While children of gay and lesbian parents don’t “become gay” any more than children of heterose.xuals, daughters of lesbian couples do display one very different behavior: They play better with male children and have more gender-neutral views of society. (Isn’t that what we want? For women to choose their own destinies sans gender impositions?) “53 percent (16 out of 30) of the daughters of lesbians aspired to careers such as doctor, lawyer, engineer, and astronaut, compared with only 21 percent (6 of 28) of the daughters of heterose.xual mothers.”Overall, Stacey and Biblarz found that “Lesbigay parents and their children in these studies display no differences from heteros.exual counterparts in psychological well-being or cognitive functioning.”
Adult Gay Relationships: Failing to prove that children are harmed by having gay parents, many Christian bigots will go on to claim that ho.mose.xual relationships are “inherently” less stable, less emotionally fulfilling, and psychologically damaging. This claim is also contradicted by the evidence.A 2003 empirical study by Gottman, et al, of the interaction between heter.os.exual and ho.mose.xual couples found that “same-s.ex couples actually demonstrated more positive (and fewer negative) behaviors during their interactions than did married couples.” The 2003 study had a small sample, so Roissman, et al, conducted a more thorough and broader series of studies in 2008. They found “individuals in committed same-se.x relationships were generally not distinguishable from their committed heterose.xual counterparts, with one exception–lesbians were especially effective at working together harmoniously in laboratory observations.”Empirical evidence for actual levels of infidelity in either hete.rose.xuals or ho.mose.xuals is very difficult to come by. Varying cultural and ethnic definitions, self-reporting bias, and social concerns have rendered the body of evidence difficult to interpret. At best. There is no data available for divorce rates among gays — since gay marriage has never been allowed in the U.S. However, it’s important to note that there are no reliable studies linking hom.ose.xuality with higher levels of relationship infidelity.Recent publications have questioned the reality of monogamy as a historical tradition. In The Myth of Monogamy, Barash and Lipton present a compelling (and cross-disciplinary) argument that heteros.exual couples have never been paragons of fidelity to begin with. In other words, it appears that lots of people — both gay and straight — cheat. The Roissman study backed up this conclusion with the observation that both gay and straight couples’ relationship satisfaction was based more on non-se.xual factors like parental support and modeling. Not se.xual orientation.In short, the arguments from the Christian bigots fail. They do not reflect reality, but rather a religious ideological agenda. There is no evidence whatsoever that gays are inherently less healthy, happy, or faithful than straights. There is no evidence that children of gays suffer any harm. In fact, there’s reasonable evidence that children of lesbians are more socially accepting and well adjusted — especially girls."
God keep our land – prayer provided by the Canadian national anthem. That all Canadians acknowledge God on a regular basis is a known fact. All opinion to the contrary is reserved for their judgmental, superior atti tude towards others.
IDIOT!!! Not all Canadian's sing the national anthem daily and therefore not all Canadian's pay homage to your imaginary friend. Our country, much like the USA, is based off of Secular values. We are in fact more secular than the USA, thus making that line pointless. You can have your childhood imaginary friend while we live in the adult world.
I never sing that bullsh!t line and routinely follow it with "There are no gods!" which gets interesting reactions from the people around me...
There are no children issues. In the case of adoption and surrogacy, studies prove conclusively same-sex couples do an outstanding job of raising children, with no long-term consequences to the children. As to procreation, nobody cares if they don't procreate, just as nobody cares if heteros don't procreate.
No society endorses heterosexuality either, you fool. That is not a function of government. Show me anything in the American Constitution that in any way endorsess heterosexuality. Show me any founding document of any country that does.
You are just playing dishonest semantic games.
You faceplanted
I never said they can't be good parents. I've simply stated that it is more beneficial to the child to have a man and a woman in their life. Don't twist my words.
Are you kidding me? There's now 30 states with a const.itution that says marriage is between a man and a woman. The very fact we are even discussing this movement means there are people who want to change government and ENDORSE it.
Those are all very recent outbursts of religious bigotry that have not been tested in the Supreme Court, where they face a nasty challenge in the form of Equal Protections. The final curtain has not fallen, but it is VERY difficult to see that the Equal Protections Clause would not apply. That clause implicitly ENDORSES same-sex marriages, and if this Court has the courage to hear the case instead of avoiding the main issues, all those state laws will collapse.
You fave still refused to support your statement regarding societal harm.
1. you argue against gay raising kids, not gay marriage. 2. Support your point that gay homes are bad for kids.
first, that argues against gay adoption or other alternatives for gays having children, not marriage. Second, can you support your assertion that being brought up in a gay household is bad for kids?
Colin
I don't need to argue (at least not yet) that it's bad for children to be in a gay family. I'm saying any family missing a mom or dad is bad for kids. It is beneficial for the child to have both. There are things a son needs that only a dad can give him. Same for his mom. The relationship is complimentary.
Topher, have you an idea how many people in the US today are raising children alone? Or, for that matter, how many children have neither a father or a mother?
Are you saying that single parents are not fit to raise children? Or that their families are necessarily deprived of something?
Do you believe that children are better left to be raised by the government than by a family (whether it's one parent or two same gendered parents) that love them?
There is a massive difference between bad and not as good. Gay parents are in no way bad for kids.
One might consider a mom and dad as ideal but I doubt the difference between ideal and very good is great enough to make a difference.
Tropher, you are bumping into the same issue lawyers who argue against gay marriage do. Trying to articulate a non-religious argument as to why gay marriage is wrong. They struggle, just like you are. Be more specific, what is it about being brought up in a gay home is bad for kids?
I guess there's no one here anymore ...
Watch your language, please. There might be ladies present.
I'm wondering if a man brings something special and a woman brings something special, would you agree that those aspects would be complimentary to each other. And if so, wouldn't that mean removing one of those, say the man, and add another woman, would that mean a lesser relationship?
Don't be such a sexist prude. The women here don't need your condescending patriarchal bullshit.
Okay, I'll talk with you.
I'm wondering if a man brings something special and a woman brings something special, would you agree that those aspects would be complimentary to each other.
I would posit that all individuals entering a relationship bring with them unique and special aspects of not only themselves, but that which they can contribute to the relationship. Male or female, romantic or platonic.
And if so, wouldn't that mean removing one of those, say the man, and add another woman, would that mean a lesser relationship?
Seeing that I don't believe that the physical traits of either partner necessarily matter much with regard to what they bring to a relationship, I would have to say no. It would not mean that a partnership made up off two women or two men would be a lesser relationship.
You base your premise on our societal understanding of gender...but gender is a construct of the society, something we learn as we grow up.
Professor Jaime Berdal Jr – In behalf of The Villabrille-Largusa Kali Association of America. Our healrfett condolences to the family and friendsof Grand Master Cristopher Rickeets. A great loss to the filipino martial arts community. Peace be with youProfessor Jaime Berdal jr.
I guess what I'm asking is whether a man brings something different to a relationship that a woman does and vice versa.
Well, he brings his incredible swelling python of love, whereas the woman brings hooters and her tunnel of love.
But more seriously, there is nothing in love that requires it to come from the opposite sex. The "special" that you are trying to force to prove your point is easily available in someone of the same sex. The same thing happens in good friendships.
Ok, I'll play along...
There are many things that men and women can do equally well. There are many things that men do better than women and vice versa. There are some things that only men can do and some things that only women can do. So what? What's your point? You're not going to get all hung up on the sexual aspects are you?
Sorry – should have a reply below.
Marissa, Alexis liked Goldie Locks alot, it was very good. Guess you take after your mother. love Nana and Alexis and Bumpa and Uncle Nicholas
Marriage will always be as intended by God. Marriage will always be defined as between one Man and one Woman.
What about the marriages that took place before your Book of Silliness was cobled together by charlatans and those that are not members of your cult? Shouldn't they be able to define marriage for themselves, without reference to imaginary beings and books of fiction?
Marriage is not solely a religious thing. People smart enough to know their is no god should be free to Mary any consenting adult (s) they wish. The government should but out of citizens private lives
So are men and women interchangeable?
Ok, still playing along...
There are many things that men and women can do equally well. There are many things that men can do better than women and vice versa. There are some things that only men can do and some things that only women can do. So what? What's your point? You're not going to get all hung up on the sexual aspects are you?
haha. Guess I did it this time. 🙂
I guess what I'm asking is whether a man brings something different to a relationship that a woman does and vice versa.
Each individual person brings something different to a relationship be they man or woman. Please quit fucking around and get to your point.
Watch your language, please. There might be ladies present.
I'm wondering if a man brings something special and a woman brings something special, would you agree that those aspects would be complimentary to each other. And if so, wouldn't that mean removing one of those, say the man, and add another woman, would that mean a lesser relationship?
What one considers special, another may not. Again, quit fucking around and get to your point.
Well, if that's a lesser relationship, what will it do for children? What will it mean to society? What will it mean to the definition of marriage? How will these things affect civilization? I think these are questions we need to look at.
You are clearly trying to build a strawman argument against gay marriage. Quit being a coward and make your case. And when you do, explain why your cult's rules and irrational thinking should apply to anyone not in your cult. You are free to believe whatever insanity to want, but you are not free to deny others their civil rights.
If you don't know what my point is how can you call it a strawman?
What does religion have to do with it? I'm pointedly NOT using a religion argument. I will if you want me to, though.
I'm saying these relationships are ultimately harmful to society.
You never said or implied gay relationships were harmful to society. You were definitely building a straw man, and Ace derailed it.
Now support what you just said. How can gay relationships be harmful to society? I cannot immagine any way that the relationship between two consenting adults can have any impact on society at all, since such things are private in nature.
You are on record as saying you do not support gay marriage because The Babble says so. I find it ludicrous that you now want to discard your magical ook...
You are arguing that any hetro marriage is better than any gay marriage, throwing up unsupported, non quantified fears. Do you really believe that married gays will always do worse than hetro fathers who kill their wives and blow up their children, or worse than hetero mothers that kill their children because their god told them to, or ignore their cult's leaders to the tune of 700,000+ abortions per year in the USA?
Please answer my question: what gives believers the right to impose their unfounded beliefs on anyone else, especially given their crappy record of controlling their own cult members?
I said it in my last statement, so I don't know what you are talking about.
If these relationships are so great, why has in at least 5000 years of human history no society has endorsed or embrased it?
Dude ... which side do you want me to argue with? Societal view or Christian view? Pick one so I know what to talk about.
So, we should revert to living as mankind did 5,000 years ago? What a fantastic argument! I give up, there's no way I can beat that!
Topher, you need to take a closer look and do a little research on the society of the ancient Greeks.
Yay! I win! Woo-hoo! (just kidding)
Allow me to repeat myself, as you are avoiding the question. How can gay relationships be harmful to society? You said it, now support it.
Mirosal
Why is that? I have no doubt the Greeks were performing the act, if that is what you mean.
Ok, shall we start with the children issues?
Homosexuality was an open and accepted practice in Ancient Greece as well as Ancient Rome. Ancient China had strong homosexual and bisexual traditions.
Your thesis fails. Those were all dominant cultures for centuries.
"open and accepted" does not mean endorsed by the government.
Topher is playing "peekaboo-troll" to your guys "I want to waste the same sort of time with this troll as I have done dozens of times before"
He knows he has no good arguments, no support for his position, no facts on his side – and still comes here to troll you using different names. The same clueless mongy troll that has slowly learned to dodge questions a little better but the same troll nonetheless.
blogcriticalpha
You are a liar. I have never posted anything on this site under another name.
Topher, if a gay couple move in right next door to you, just exactly how is YOUR life ruined, hurt, harmed, or otherwise reduced in value?
Depends on the situation, but it probably doesn't change anything. If 2 women want to live together and sleep together, they have every right to do that. It's none of my business.
Exactly right. It does not affect you at all, and it's none of your business. Exactly the same with marriage. Beyond yourself, you don't get a say in whether a hetero couple marries, and you should not have a say in whether a gay couple does either. That is exactly the point. So butt out and mind your own business, stop denying other people the same rights you have.
Topher ... and if it's 2 men ... then what?
Its not defined that way now. And it makes no difference how its defined. There are no reasons why gays should not be able to marry.