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June 21st, 2012
09:40 AM ET
Harsh anti-gay preaching alarms gay rights supporters and Christian conservatives alikeBy Richard Allen Greene, CNN (CNN) - The little boy with a buzz cut shows no sign of nervousness as he sings in front of the church congregation. Dressed in a pressed white shirt and blue sweater vest, he holds the microphone and sings that the Bible is right, then lets loose the line that brings whoops from the congregation: "Ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven." Next to him, an adult beams as worshippers rise to their feet and cheer. The scene was captured on video and anonymously posted online, receiving hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube since the end of May. It appears to show a service at the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle in Greensburg, Indiana. The church quickly posted on its website that its pastor and members "do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason." CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories But the chubby boy with the buzz cut isn't the only one going viral with harshly worded anti-gay pronouncements in church. In recent weeks, Pastor Charles Worley in North Carolina preached that lesbians and gay men should be fenced in and left to die out, while Pastor Curtis Knapp in Kansas said the government should kill homosexuals. "They won't, but they should," Knapp said, according to a recording of his sermon posted online. Worley’s sermon was captured on video and also went viral. The incidents drew outrage and condemnation from gay rights supporters. But they also left many Christians uncomfortable - even those who call themselves conservative. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter One leading expert on American Protestantism has a simple explanation for why some pastors preach against homosexuality while others go further, encouraging violence against gay people. "There is a significant percentage who think it's a sin," Ed Stetzer said of homosexuality. "And there are a small minority who are stupid." Stetzer is president of LifeWay Research, which is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. Worley and Knapp both belong to Independent Baptist churches and are not part of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is the second largest Christian denomination in the United States. Many conservative Christians would agree with pastors such as Worley and Knapp that homosexual behavior is fundamentally wrong, Stetzer said. But that doesn't mean they support them or their sermons, he added. "If you asked, they would say that's really unhelpful and stupid," he said. But the Rev. Robin Lunn said these preachers are much worse than that. She calls such pastors "genocidal." Opinion: Why some Christians focus on gays "If someone is talking about rounding up me and all my kind in a pen, what is the difference between that and what is happening in Syria and Sudan and what happened in Germany and Poland during World War II?" asked Lunn, executive director of the Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists. "We are talking about people who believe somehow that the Second Coming is connected to a Final Solution," said Lunn, a lesbian, using the Nazi term for the mass murder of Jews in the Holocaust. "I think these men expressed something that many Baptist preachers think," Lunn said. "We need to stand up and denounce this powerfully." Her group campaigns for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender inclusion across all Baptist churches. It has its origins in the American Baptist Churches movement but is not connected to any one Baptist group or denomination, she said. "It seems to me that this is an opportunity to show some solidarity around the belief that all people are children of God regardless of what you think about someone's 'lifestyle,' " she said. Opinion: The Christian case for gay marriage One of the most respected voices in conservative Christianity agrees with Lunn, up to a point. "The Gospel does not condemn homosexuals, it condemns homosexuality," said R. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. "The Bible makes clear that homosexuality is a sin, in the context of making clear that every person is a sinner." What preachers such as Worley and Knapp are doing wrong, he said, is that they are "not merely rendering a moral judgment on homosexuality but extending it to the condemnation of people. They are speaking with a certain venom and hatred." He called their sermons "reprehensible." And, he said, "they are doing grave harm to the cause of conservative Christianity by speaking messages of hate that obscure the message of the church." "What you're seeing here is a very dangerous fringe that does not represent conservative Christianity in America," he said. About one-third of Protestant pastors talk to their congregations about homosexuality several times a year, while another third do so "rarely," data from LifeWay Research suggests. The rest do so anywhere from never to several times a month, according to a 2008 telephone survey of 1,002 Protestant pastors across the country and a wide range of denominations. Half of the pastors who preached about homosexuality several times a year identified themselves as "very conservative," while a quarter of those who did said they were liberal or very liberal. LifeWay’s Stetzer argued that it was important to remember that many Americans - not just Christian pastors - think homosexuality is wrong. A Gallup Poll last month found that 54% of Americans saw homosexuality as "morally acceptable," while 42% said it was "morally wrong." "This is not a small minority," Stetzer said. "Are all of those people going to be tarred by the comments of a few pastors?" The sermons of Worley, Knapp and those like them do not have a great influence, Stetzer said, calling them "isolated." "I've never heard of or seen a violent confrontation" that resulted from Christian preaching, he said. But Ross Murray, director of religion, faith and values at the gay rights group Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, or GLAAD, said it's not that simple. "When pastors preach they want people to listen to their words and pay attention to them," he said. "It's an exhortation to believe and think and act in accordance with the Gospel." And he said he's not worried only about people who might act on violent preaching they hear in church. He said he's also concerned about young churchgoers grappling with being gay or lesbian themselves. "You get brought to church; you have told nobody about this and you hear your pastor preaching or this child singing. What this tells you is that the church is not a safe place, not a place where you are going to experience love and grace," he said. Pastors such as Worley and Knapp "give Christianity a bad name," he said. And more than that, they are dangerous, he said. There were a record number of murders of members of sexual minorities in the United States last year, he said, citing a study out this month by the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs. He conceded that no link has been proven between preaching and attacks on homosexuals, but he argued that preaching matters. "To say that people shouldn't take you seriously when you say something violent is disingenuous. Our words have consequences," Murray said. "Our words have real meaning." |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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This is Nuts. These peoples are trash! HA!! Put them behind a fence to see if they reproduce! DUMB DUMB DUMB.
Live and let Live.
I LOVE ANDERSON!!! LOVE!
So should we prohibit the elderly from getting married because they could not reproduce behind your fence?
To quote the genius in the car,"Iyit's Ayadam ayand uhEve, nowat Ayadam ayand Stuheve!
I think God made Adam, Eve, Steve, Bob, Tiffany, Michelle, John, Candy, and Mitch. I think he made ALL of us.
We are ALL sinners. The problem with some gay folks is that they arrogantly refuse to acknowledge that they are sinners. If they would admit that their behavior is wrong, they might actually find grace and some peace.
Excuse me, but sin is in the eye of the beholder. If you eat pork, are you sinning? Some would say yes. Would then you be wrong for not admitting you are sinning when you eat pork? Of course not, since you do not see it as a sin.
Judge not. Leave judgement to God. You are not worthy to judge what is or is not a sin. Worry about your own sins and leave other people's sins between them and God.
To admit I'm a sinner, is to say I believe in your murderous god. I'm just gay, and to lie about it would make me wrong.
As opposed to those who arrogantly claim to know the mind of god?
The feeble of mind continue in their wanton ways.
You are recommending self abasement and self loathing and contempt for the individual freedom. Christianity has no use for someone who is happy with who and what they are-they must convince the person that he/she is deformed, "sinful", born defective and deserving of death. Only then, after much guilt and fear, does the "sinner" repent of perceived mistakes and immorality. I think this belief system is immoral and a curse to humanity; I applaud those who fight this disease of the mind with reason, compassion, and vigilance. By all means-believe what you want. But it IS necessary to protect innocent children from the corruption of their critical faculties. Peace.
What is "wanton' about wanting to marry the person you love?
not everyone subscribes to the whole "sinner" thing. those outside of your religion would prefer to live unaccosted.
You boobs are beyond laughable. Don't use birth control!!! It's a sin! But don't get pregnant out of wedlock! It's a sin!! And if you DO get pregnant, don't even THINK about abortion! It's a sin! And if you are attracted to someone of the same gender and love him/her and want to marry, don't even THINK about it! It's a sin! But don't have any s3x with him or her outside of marriage! It's a sin!
Tom Tom – I'm referring to the religious zealots... Love who you want. I know I do.
I dont view it as a sin just because some book written by man says it is. Just the same as I dont think eatting shellfish or wearing blended fabric is. That is ridiculous. If anything we were placed upon this earth as God's way of controlling overpopulation so we arent having to kill children like they are in China. Which is worse? The problem is we are so suppressed that we can actively do our part in controlling that because in many places we have to fear for our very own safety. Live and let live people. Mind your own business and let us mind ours. The only thing we want is our equal rights under the law to love, marry, and protect the person we choose to commit ourselves to. What harm does that cause you. None. Thats what.
Rob, my apologies. I misread your intent.
Why would they admit to being wrong if they don't think they're wrong? What gives you the power to decide between right and wrong? And answering "because God said so" is irrelevent since his existence is purely based on your faith, that I don't agree with.
So, as long they accept your religion, you'll stop hating them? That sounds like threat.
The last desperate gasp for breath in dying stupid argument. Good riddance.
Organized religion is the oldest and biggest scam on earth. Organized religion is the cause of much of the world's strife.
I'll second that statement.
I have no problem with gay marriage, polygamy, monogamy, bigamy, incest or whatever you can think of. As long as two people love each other and you are at the age of reason, who cares!
incest is frowned upon for the well known genetic problems, not to mention the entire "persons abusing authoratative control" in incestuous relationships.
What's wrong with two brothers loving each other? Sounds like you are a bigot! Equal rights for all!
Sounds like you are the intolerant one.
Sounds like you're the stupid one, LE. Look up the reasons for the prohibition of incestuous relationships. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Religion perpetuating hate. This is a surprise??
If you're a mormon:
You believe in a man named Joseph Smith that declared himself a general against the American Government and then said he would create a Theocratic Monarchy with himself at its head.
You also believe in a man named Joseph Smith that married a 14 year old girl – even though he already had plural wives – because he told the child's family they would receive instant eternal salvation if they gave her to him (Smith).
You also believe in becoming a god after this life if you have committed to and followed all of your temple rituals sincerely and without deviance.
You also believe that anyone that is not a mormon will NOT be allow to be with Jesus Christ or God, no matter how good they are, if they do not accept your gospel (religion) to be the only true church. For example. Mother Teresa will not be in heaven if she does not accept a posthumous baptism in the after life.
You also believe that you must take on secret temple names, wear garments (underwear) that has secret symbols that are used in secret rituals in the temple as well as a blood oath that began in 1843, but ended in 1990 when there was a general uproar amongst non-mormons that found out about this particular ritual.
You also believe Blacks and Native Americans were marked with dark skin for being evil in the pre-life or because they just displeased god.
You believe that once you are a god of your own world, you with your heavenly wife will create spirit children that will then fill the earthly bodies of human on your own particular planet that you rule over...meaning that you are already (in certain terms) better than the God that created this planet.
You do believe that Lucifer and Jesus were and are brothers. Sign A TRUE Conservative Republican."
2 types exist... 1. a firm believer that gays are wrong by the bible and god, and they are to narrow-minded to understand the hugely complex but valid argument around gay rights; or 2. they are hiding in a closet and fighting this to the extent where others know they are gay themselves lol... oh and the church invented the word marriage, but the government has made it a legal thing so they cant deny freedoms... but your church is not forced into marrying gays... legally, yes... religiously, its up to the individual church...
As "legally" is all we have in the secular world (and therefore the only true and meaningful designation in the material world), "religious" doesn't really matter except to those who think it matters. If two men want to marry and their marriage isn't recognized by a specific church-who the hell cares? I don't mind if my marriage isn't recognized by Nazis or Stalinists, so why should gays care if their marriage is recognized by the RCC or any church for that matter? If hate mongering is what Christianity is all about (and I've lived long enough to believe that this IS what it really is) then to hell with the Christian churches who don't want to recognize them.
as a married straight male, i agree completely toby.
i mean toby that is.
To my Mormon, Muslim, Pentecostal and other teetotaling friends:
Please wait for me to run to the fridge for a cold brewski and we'll discuss the proper consumption of alcohol for a Christian.....
Ahhhh, I'm back with 12 cold delicious ounces of Bridgeport IPA.
Floral and hoppy, delightfully complex.
Smooth and satisfying (says so right on the bottle – i tested it – it's true).
i happen to drink wine at home, the doctor tells me it is better for me. given enough of it, i certainly feel no pain.
snow, it's what civilized people do.
Drinkin some now?
Whatcha got – Sav Blanc? (great in summer chilled).
Nope. Champagne.
No pain with Champagne......
That's why it's a necessity for posting here.
Need Chanpagne to post here?
In Palinese i say: "you betcha!"
b4bigbang – the sauvignon blancs are good as long as you don't go new zealand. the citrus kills me.
i'm an uncomplicated guy, any mild white table wine may fill my glass. some of the best wines i had were the house whites in north western italy.
Snow, you don't like "Cloudy Bay"?
And yes to the Italian whites. Hail, Alba.
Hey i wonder if Palin smo kes that kil ler a laskan Th un de r f ck.
Dry martini for me. Cheers!
nooooo. No martoonis for me, thanks!
Gotta try those Italian whites Alba type!
Best go to Alba and try them, with truffles.
tw, those NZ Sav Blancs will knock you over with the "cat's p e e on gooseberry" aroma/taste.
I got hooked on em when i was in NZ.
They got great weed too!
That'd be great to go to Italy, France, Greece, Germany, Czeck, Belgium, etc. and try the local wines/beers.
Oh and Amsterdam of course!
Hate filled Christian conservatives.
s e m e n-filled g a y liberals......
wad gobbling closet christian conservative "straight" glory hole neo nazi inbred jesus freaks...
Hey blondie, how's the disease-treatment goin?
What was it, AIDS, hep-C, herpes or all the above?
Btw, still using the needle?
Bottom line: if your religious leaders teach you to hate, condemn, and harm those who are different than you, then they are teaching you to worship a god who is evil.
If, however, they teach you to love, respect, and serve those who are different than you, then they are teaching you to worship a god who is holy.
God is Love. The path to heaven is through service, not by judging others.
Or, even more likely, man invented god, religion, heaven, etc in order to explain what was once inexplicable. Now religion is used as a tool to corrupt the minds of innocent children, fleece the fearful and unsuspecting, and to exert power over large groups of people with threats of eternal damnation. As Sigmund Freud once quipped, "The voice of reason is small, but very persistent."
Toby: you are wrong, but you point out an important reason why the publicity of hatemongering by Christians is bad for all Christians: it makes others think that all Christians agree with these radical elements. Just like many believe that all Muslims are jihadists because of the radical elements within Islam.
Most Christians do not preach hate, but rather love. However, they do not get the publicity, so the hatemongers is all you hear about.
the path to heaven is through Jesus Christ...you can't work your way to heaven.
any deity or religion which requires adoration under penalty of eternal torment is undeniably false.
love one another. if a preacher is preaching exclusivity...walk away
Oddly enough, there is no where in the New Testament where Jesus says a word about gay rights or gay behavior. Even when Paul talks about he it talks about relationships based on lust. Nowhere in the New Testament is there anything about gay marriage or long term gay relationships based on love and commitment.
That being said, Jesus is clear about hoarding wealth. In Matthew 19:24 he says "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." And on taxes he says render unto Caesar that which is Caesars.
Yet somehow the religious right gets this all turned around, invents anti gay theology out of nothing and contradicts Jesus on money and wealth. Truly amazing.
once again CNN focuses on gay rights to avoid talking about the jobs report today
If he was real – there would be.
So, there's no story on the ENTIRE CNN WEBSITE ABOUT THE JOBS REPORT?
It's a friggin' conspiracy!!!
Excuse me, but look at the friggin website you are on. It is religion. blogs. cnn. com. Make sense yet?
Why oh why is America so full of stupid people? Must be because only they are breeding.
Why don't you just pray for a job?
People should not rejoyce that those who practice a gay lifestyle would go to hell. We may not subscribe to that particular sin but we all have sin. Everyone Need Jesus-Christ and should repent from sinning
get a life – get a new hobby
Shucks, Rick, not everyone believes in that. So, preaching to them about it is only soooo effective
The fanooks and zionists will be dealt with during WW3
and everyone else too, if we have a WW3.
Oh and btw Daniel, may i reccomend for you to chill out with a big blunt full of kush?
You sound like you could use it bro.....
"What you're seeing here is a very dangerous fringe that does not represent conservative Christianity in America," he said. What bullsh1t! I live in the heart of the Bible belt. You can't throw a rock in my town without hitting an SBC affiliated church. I'm here to tell ya, hate mongering is what the SBC and it's congregates are all about! I don't care what their leadership says. At the grass roots level they look for and target PEOPLE to hate. It is a way of life in the south. It makes the mentally inferior feel superior in some perverse way. It's really that simple. And if you think racism is dead, just get a few of these jerks to talk when they feel "safe".
"What you're seeing here is a very dangerous fringe that does not represent conservative Christianity in America," he said. What bullsh1t! I live in the heart of the Bible belt. You can't throw a rock in my town without hitting an SBC affiliated church. I'm here to tell ya, hate mongering is what the SBC and it's congregates are all about! I don't care what their leadership says. At the grass roots level they look for and target PEOPLE to hate. It makes the mentally inferior feel superior in some perverse way. It's really that simple. And if you think racism is dead, just get a few of these jerks to talk when they feel "safe".
religion is a communal thinking that hates dissension. those who do not follow dogma are ostacized.
Record these "GOOD CHRISIANS" at their best and then post the videos on YouTube under the heading of MORE CHRISTIAN HYPOCRISY.
Flood YouTube with it and then whenever some yammering moron gets uppity, we can just refer them to a fellow christian misbehaving badly.
Where are the good Christians? What a joke...Where are the good gays, that will let straight people believe what they want to believe without being condemnd? If the Muslims take over...Watch out...
Did that little hissy fit make you feel better?
Straight people can velieve what they want to – as long as they are not using their thoughts to deny gays their civil rights.
the muslims take over? you are one brainwashed individual.
Complaining about a Muslim religious take-over while simultaneously promoting a religious take over of your own to subvert gays.
#Hypocrisy.
Oh wait, now you're going to accuse me of warring on Christmas, too, aren't you?
I thought your puny, pathetic, worthless god told you not to lie?
The issue isn't those straight people that believe that hom ose xuality is wrong. The issue is those straight people that preach, teach, and condone violence against gays, all in the name of Christ, as if Christ himself did not preach against that very thing.
What this has to do with Muslims, I have no clue. Many of their leaders condemn hom ose xuality as well.
the good gays are all around you. you simply are not perceptive enough to notice them.