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June 21st, 2012
09:40 AM ET

Harsh anti-gay preaching alarms gay rights supporters and Christian conservatives alike

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

(CNN) - The little boy with a buzz cut shows no sign of nervousness as he sings in front of the church congregation.

Dressed in a pressed white shirt and blue sweater vest, he holds the microphone and sings that the Bible is right, then lets loose the line that brings whoops from the congregation: "Ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven."

Next to him, an adult beams as worshippers rise to their feet and cheer.

The scene was captured on video and anonymously posted online, receiving hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube since the end of May. It appears to show a service at the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle in Greensburg, Indiana.

The church quickly posted on its website that its pastor and members "do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason."

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

But the chubby boy with the buzz cut isn't the only one going viral with harshly worded anti-gay pronouncements in church.

In recent weeks, Pastor Charles Worley in North Carolina preached that lesbians and gay men should be fenced in and left to die out, while Pastor Curtis Knapp in Kansas said the government should kill homosexuals.

"They won't, but they should," Knapp said, according to a recording of his sermon posted online. Worley’s sermon was captured on video and also went viral.

The incidents drew outrage and condemnation from gay rights supporters.

But they also left many Christians uncomfortable - even those who call themselves conservative.

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One leading expert on American Protestantism has a simple explanation for why some pastors preach against homosexuality while others go further, encouraging violence against gay people.

"There is a significant percentage who think it's a sin," Ed Stetzer said of homosexuality. "And there are a small minority who are stupid."

Stetzer is president of LifeWay Research, which is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. Worley and Knapp both belong to Independent Baptist churches and are not part of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is the second largest Christian denomination in the United States.

Many conservative Christians would agree with pastors such as Worley and Knapp that homosexual behavior is fundamentally wrong, Stetzer said.

But that doesn't mean they support them or their sermons, he added.

"If you asked, they would say that's really unhelpful and stupid," he said.

But the Rev. Robin Lunn said these preachers are much worse than that. She calls such pastors "genocidal."

Opinion: Why some Christians focus on gays

"If someone is talking about rounding up me and all my kind in a pen, what is the difference between that and what is happening in Syria and Sudan and what happened in Germany and Poland during World War II?" asked Lunn, executive director of the Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists.

"We are talking about people who believe somehow that the Second Coming is connected to a Final Solution," said Lunn, a lesbian, using the Nazi term for the mass murder of Jews in the Holocaust.

"I think these men expressed something that many Baptist preachers think," Lunn said. "We need to stand up and denounce this powerfully."

Her group campaigns for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender inclusion across all Baptist churches. It has its origins in the American Baptist Churches movement but is not connected to any one Baptist group or denomination, she said.

"It seems to me that this is an opportunity to show some solidarity around the belief that all people are children of God regardless of what you think about someone's 'lifestyle,' " she said.

Opinion: The Christian case for gay marriage

One of the most respected voices in conservative Christianity agrees with Lunn, up to a point.

"The Gospel does not condemn homosexuals, it condemns homosexuality," said R. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. "The Bible makes clear that homosexuality is a sin, in the context of making clear that every person is a sinner."

What preachers such as Worley and Knapp are doing wrong, he said, is that they are "not merely rendering a moral judgment on homosexuality but extending it to the condemnation of people. They are speaking with a certain venom and hatred."

He called their sermons "reprehensible."

And, he said, "they are doing grave harm to the cause of conservative Christianity by speaking messages of hate that obscure the message of the church."

"What you're seeing here is a very dangerous fringe that does not represent conservative Christianity in America," he said.

About one-third of Protestant pastors talk to their congregations about homosexuality several times a year, while another third do so "rarely," data from LifeWay Research suggests.

The rest do so anywhere from never to several times a month, according to a 2008 telephone survey of 1,002 Protestant pastors across the country and a wide range of denominations.

Half of the pastors who preached about homosexuality several times a year identified themselves as "very conservative," while a quarter of those who did said they were liberal or very liberal.

LifeWay’s Stetzer argued that it was important to remember that many Americans - not just Christian pastors - think homosexuality is wrong.

A Gallup Poll last month found that 54% of Americans saw homosexuality as "morally acceptable," while 42% said it was "morally wrong."

"This is not a small minority," Stetzer said. "Are all of those people going to be tarred by the comments of a few pastors?"

The sermons of Worley, Knapp and those like them do not have a great influence, Stetzer said, calling them "isolated."

"I've never heard of or seen a violent confrontation" that resulted from Christian preaching, he said.

But Ross Murray, director of religion, faith and values at the gay rights group Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, or GLAAD, said it's not that simple.

"When pastors preach they want people to listen to their words and pay attention to them," he said. "It's an exhortation to believe and think and act in accordance with the Gospel."

And he said he's not worried only about people who might act on violent preaching they hear in church. He said he's also concerned about young churchgoers grappling with being gay or lesbian themselves.

"You get brought to church; you have told nobody about this and you hear your pastor preaching or this child singing. What this tells you is that the church is not a safe place, not a place where you are going to experience love and grace," he said.

Pastors such as Worley and Knapp "give Christianity a bad name," he said.

And more than that, they are dangerous, he said. There were a record number of murders of members of sexual minorities in the United States last year, he said, citing a study out this month by the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs.

He conceded that no link has been proven between preaching and attacks on homosexuals, but he argued that preaching matters.

"To say that people shouldn't take you seriously when you say something violent is disingenuous. Our words have consequences," Murray said. "Our words have real meaning."

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Christianity • Homosexuality

soundoff (1,795 Responses)
  1. truth

    it is better to speak the truth that hurts, than to speak lies that kills.

    June 21, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
    • Ting

      How was the chicken kung pao?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • niknak

      So that is your argument for why these hateful people who call themselves christians are gay bashing?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Untruth, I see you're still wildly typing anything that comes to mind. Stream of consciousness they call it. You don't know what I'm talking about so never mind. Did you find that in a Chinese fortune cookie?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Truth,

      thank you for the entertainment value. Your posts have been the most fun today. Perhaps we could just start subst.tuting the word "truth" into advertising slogans:

      Truth, it's what's for breakfast
      Truth, 99.44% pure
      Truth, the 2012 Motor Trend Car of the Year

      These are all as meaninful as your pronouncements.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • al

      First u need to know what the truth is, preach by the book. I dont think God intended for us to preach hate.

      June 21, 2012 at 6:22 pm |
  2. truth

    listen...ALL truth is narrow minded, ALL lies are broad minded.

    June 21, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • AverageJoe76

      Are you a writer for fortune cookie phrases?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      i like fortune cookies too.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      damn you, Joe! you got it in first! lol.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • Huebert

      That is a very broad statement.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      All lies gets you beach front property in the Hamptons.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Untruth, where do you get this stuff? You're hilarious!

      June 21, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      I want to thank that little kid in the church video for helping me remember Scripture!
      The poem is the key: "Romans one and twenty-seven, aint no h o m o gonna make it to Heaven".
      See – it works!

      June 21, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      b4bigbang, you fry too for spreading lies about Jesus. You fall into the category of a false preacher and all the false preachers fry.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • ONE

      "listen...ALL truth is narrow minded, ALL lies are broad minded."
      @ truth ,.....NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

      June 21, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
  3. Piper

    God sets standards of living for a reason. He wants to protect his children from the consequences of their actions. This is why we call him our Father because he acts like one. The world often acts like teenagers and when their parents tell them something is wrong or they can't do something they want to rebel. It's very sad people should use common sense when debating these things and factual evidence to come up with reasonable conclusions.

    June 21, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • niknak

      No Piper, you and your fellow fundies act like teenages believing in your fairy tale.
      Get salvation and get yourself free of religion.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Piper's definition of "common sense": what Piper believes is right.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "It's very sad people should use common sense when debating these things and factual evidence to come up with reasonable conclusions."

      You mean like heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 21, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Mother Nature gave atheists all the brains leaving table scraps for the religious folks. It's not your fauly you have a single-digit IQ. Don't take it so hard. Call it God's plan if you want. Mother Nature believes in tough love. She doesn't like you or your loser friends. There is no Magic Dad and Wayward Son. Sorry. No leprechauns or unicorns either. Sorry. You need to prostrate yourself before that tough old hide Mother Nature and kiss her calloused feet. Only then will you understand the way of the world.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
  4. PRISM 1234

    I can't say how many times I hear the atheists and God -haters saying the the Christians need to be killed, so thaey could have the country to themselves and "have their unrestrained "freedoms".......and that's not just on the blogs... it's time to weep and cry out to God for seeing evil that surrounds us in our days, yet it is the evil that's defended, and no one takes to heart that the righteous ar perishing! But God does not repay every day, be sure of that, you who mock His holy Name!

    June 21, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I've only rarely ever seen anything like that, and usually those people, at least on this blog, are told to stfu by a lot of people. Just like the religious nuts that call for the execution of gays, or atheists, or any number of people they don't like are told to stfu by everyone. Don't try to sell your bias as normal.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • niknak

      fu@k god.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      Dont' try to cover up what's in your own heart, HG...... we're no strangers!

      June 21, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yes, we are. You're just stranger than most of the others, Prissy.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What are you smoking, by the way? Care to share?

      Where have you seen anyone threatening believers with harm? You should be able to show your evidence. Find those posts and give the dates and the names of the posters, Prissy.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • niknak

      And for the record, I have never heard one atheist ever say that religious people should be killed.
      Give me one proven example of that ever being said, anywhere.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      Prism 1234, atheists don't want to kill you. We want you to suffer, not die. Horrible sufferings, not an escape through death. I hope you live forever in excrucitating pain. Have a nice day.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @PRISM

      Hmm, so instead of actually addressing any point, you post incoherent babble.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
  5. truth

    It is better to be divided by truth than to be united by error.

    June 21, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Snow

      I am glad to see that you understand why christianity should be disbanded

      June 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • AverageJoe76

      Ooooooh. I'm gonna steal that one.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      if christians cared about finding the truth, they wouldn't ignore "evidence" and "facts".

      June 21, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Ting

      Had lunch at the Chinese buffet today?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
  6. truth

    It doesnt matter what you think you are right about, if you are wrong about Jesus.

    June 21, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      AMEN!

      June 21, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • niknak

      fu@k jesus too.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
    • Peteyroo

      I am absolutely right about Jesus. He doesn't exist and neither does Magic Dad. There are also no unicorns or leprechauns.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
  7. truth

    It doesnt matter what you think are right about, if you are wrong about Jesus.

    June 21, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Snow

      It doesnt matter what you think are right about, if you are wrong about Zeus – where Hades will burn you for eternity for accepting this charlatan named jesus.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • AverageJoe76

      Meaning what......? 'Wrong about Jesus like; 'He's not relevant" or "I love Geeeeezus"? Which is it?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Snow

      Actually I think the Greeks believed in deeds rather than what you believed in. The whole scales thing.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      well said. too bad it's christians that are wrong about jesus. if jesus existed, and there's no good evidence that the did, but if he did, he was just another cult leader, like david koresh.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Snow

      whoops... my bad, Hawaii.. well then let me pull a christian card on you.. Do you think you know my god (for today) better than me? My religion, so whatever I say is the truth! woe be to you and burn in hell for letting Hades talk to me through you!

      June 21, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      LOL

      June 21, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • ingune joe

      Bootyfunk you need to learn your history a little better. It can be proven that Jesus existed, the problem comes with who do you believe he was? The Son of God as he claimed, or just a crazy preacher. There has never really been any doubt that he existed, just about who he was. You don't find it a litte strange that scientists and arachelogists continue to find things that confirm what the bible says. As far as being a fairy tale, I find it alot easier to believe in Devine Creation. than the Big Bang theory. Nothing begets Nothing. And of course lets not forget Darwins therory that we evolved from the apes, then why are there still apes? Most animals who evolve over time, the original species is gone. Just saying a Devine Creator is alot more believable than we came from monkeys and all the order and complexity of the universe came from a random Big Bang. Just sayin

      June 21, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
  8. wcb2009

    Southern Baptists are like Nazis.

    June 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • truth

      Gays are like hello kittyes

      June 21, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      like nazis but without the snappy uniforms to make them easily recognizable as d.ouche bags.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      Yes, because Southern Baptists have set up camps to systematically commit genocide.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • echamberlain

      It was called the plantation.

      June 21, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
  9. ejktexas

    Only one candidate truly supports equal rights and that is Gary Johnson.

    June 21, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • BG

      Gary Johnson is nothing more than 2012's vote-splitting Ralph Nader.

      Romney needs to get aggressive if he's going to win. Hey, Mitt ! Can you say "Executive Privilege?" How about "Obstruction of Justice?"

      Now go after 'em (and his little dog Eric, too.)

      June 21, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • DG

      "Romney needs to get aggressive if he's going to win. Hey, Mitt ! Can you say "Executive Privilege?" How about "Obstruction of Justice?" "

      Nope, everyone can see it's just a B S move by Republicans during an election year.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • BG

      The left would like to think it's just a "bullshlt move", the problem is that it isn't. Obama knew about Fast & Furious and had to sanction it, if he didn't outright conceive of it himself.

      There isn't much difference between this and Watergate. Nixon tried "executive privilege" and the court threw it back in his face. No matter how much the MSM might try to bury this, or all the little libby admirers might try to deny it ....

      ... this is a problem that's not going away until Obama does.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • BG

      On reconsideration, there is a difference between F & F and Watergate.

      Watergate didn't get any Americans killed.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      it is a b.s. move. the republicans don't care about justice or finding the truth - it's a way to attack an administration they despise.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • Oz in OK

      So now we're deflecting to 'Fast and Furious'? Really?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
    • BG

      ".. a way to attack an administration they despise."

      This has nothing to do with 'attacks.' Obama sanctioned an illegal operation similar to Iran-Contra or Watergate, but this one directly resulted in the killing of over 500 Mexicans and an American agent.

      This ain't no "deflection," libtards. What it is, is at best career-ending, and at worse, a few years in jail for perjury and/or obstruction. Maybe even accessory to murder or conspiracy. Who knows when this big shít-ball that Obama created will stop rolling downhill. Democrats won't recover from this for years.

      So prep your protest signs for the next occupy (lower case "o", because, truly, that waste of time you call a 'movement' really doesn't deserve anything more) rally.

      June 21, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Thinker

      Fast and furious started under Bush. Imagine that.

      June 21, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
  10. William Demuth

    Isn’t that the same as saying the Nazi Party does not condemn Jews, it only condemns Judaism?

    Just a way to decouple the deaths and suffering caused by the condemnation from those who are accountable for inflicting it

    June 21, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • Johnny

      No, it is more like saying that the law doesn't condemn people who are inclined to commit murder, only those that do (or try to).

      The Nazis hated the Jews as a people, not just as a practice - it didn't matter if you were observant.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • William Demuth

      So celibate gays aren't tormented by Christians?

      Hatred is hatred.

      I have it, we all do. But when it becomes part of the fabric of socities engines BAD things happen.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
  11. The Decline

    The biggest difference between the Nazi's and the preachers is, the Nazi's never really talked about it, they just did it. While I despise what is being preached we have to be careful because it is still their right to say such things even if most ppl are disgusted by it.

    June 21, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      The reason they are just talking about it, is because creeps like Worley are TESTING THE WATER. If the response Worley got from his sermon was a positive one and he felt that he had the necessary support, I am sure he would take the next step and actually start following through with his threats.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
  12. kindness

    This is my experience... Thank you.

    MY personal testimony.
    A thought to consider without an ego response

    Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
    The world denounces truth....

    Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.

    Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.

    The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.

    Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.

    We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Follow me".
    It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .

    Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
    See the truth...
    do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..

    Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .

    Trancsend the temporal world.

    Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .

    Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing (to change) The Holy spirit (within) will convict you beyond what you think you can do by yourself. Grace is given to those who renounce the world. That are" in" the world but not "of " the world.

    Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.

    Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....

    Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.

    You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.

    Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.

    I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .

    Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?

    Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.

    once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
    You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it

    You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
    I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
    Its awsome and It's just between you and Jesus

    my testimony

    Romans 10:9

    "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

    June 21, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • TROLL ALERT

      click the report abuse link to get rid of this TROLL and garbage.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @troll alert

      No one will read that post anyway. It's too long. Plus it's not abusive.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      tl, dr.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Got school?

      Gibberish on toast. It al old time poster under a new name

      Probably that crazy Viet Cong chick, squatting in a mud hut in the Meekong Delta

      June 21, 2012 at 2:25 pm |
    • Fr33th1nk3r

      Can anybody translate this random pile of grammatical errors, rants, incomplete thoughts, run-ons, and misspellings into English? I read the entire thing twice and the only thing I took away from it is that we should all bow to his invisible man in the sky.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • Ting

      'Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.'

      I agree with you on this statement.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
  13. Bo

    There is no way that I'm am going to approve the gay/lesbian lifestyle, but to attack it in this sort of way is shameful.

    June 21, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • Yodelling Bob

      If you don't like the gay lifestyle then don't live the gay lifestyle. Otherwise, mind your own business. It doesn't hurt you, it doesn't affect you, so go tend to your own failings instead.

      Who cares if you don't approve. It's none of your business and you are just butting in and playing vigilante. Fuck off!

      June 21, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • TC

      Which lifestyle?

      June 21, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Bo, yes it is shameful. Thank you for sharing.

      @Yodelling Bob,
      why was it so important to attack someone with vulgar language for such a benign comment?

      To your own point whether or not he approves of any particular lifestyle is immaterial.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • The Decline

      @ Bob – Bo wasnt attacking you so why attack him? He doesnt agree with the lifestyle, he expressed his opinion then stated he didnt agree with the preachers either. Why are you so hateful? You dont want ppl to hate your lifestyle so why insult someone else's? Seems its ok for the gay community to trash the religious but its not ok for the religious to trash the gay community? The street goes both ways buddy. You aint special

      June 21, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • Peter

      "There is no way that I'm am going to approve the gay/lesbian lifestyle"

      Well Bo we don't approve of Christian bigots lifestyle, it only brings down our society morally.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • Madtown

      Bo
      There is no way that I'm am going to approve the gay/lesbian lifestyle
      -----
      That's cool, no one needs your approval for anything anyway. Except, maybe your young children.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • The Decline

      Wow, you ppl attacking Bo are pathetic. He just called this kind of behavior by the preachers shameful yet you keep wanting to insult him. Nice double standard......asinine.....

      June 21, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      That's because his comment does not decry actually atacking the lifestyle, he just wants it done in a more palatable way so that they can get away with it.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • Jakey

      @The Decline: Bo was attacking, even if he was nice enough to stop at the point of advocating violence. It doesn't matter how nicely one puts it, "disagreeing with the lifestyle" means he is telling every LGBT person who reads his words that he thinks they are being immoral for refusing to live in the closet—a state that causes depression, can lead to suicide and denies the person the kind of chance for happiness that Bo takes for granted, all so that he can feel better knowing there's no chance he'll have to be reminded gay people exist. It's a ridiculous and cruel standard to expect others to live up to, not just a neutral "opinion." Whether or not Bo has thought it through enough to realize this is what he's saying when he says this, it is. Responding with anger to such garbage is not an attack out of nowhere.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • huhb

      I'm gay. What do you imagine you know about my lifestyle?

      June 21, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • sam stone

      I don't think they seek your approval. They do, however, seek equal rights

      June 21, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Bo, To be fair, you do not have to "accept" the "gay lifestyle". I will assume, for the sake of this conversation, that you yourself are not gay, thus, if you are not gay, no one is going to expect you to engage in ho.mo.se.xual behaviors. It isn't for you. No one is asking you to accept anything of the sort.

      However, if I may point out, what you will and won't accept about your own life has absolutely no bearing upon my life. I do not require any approval or acceptance from you to date my girlfriend (or my boyfriend for that matter). I do not need you to approve or accept my right to be with the person I love.

      The only thing anyone is asking anyone to accept is simple equality. You and I are equal, according to the founding doc.uments of our nation. We have equal rights, we have equal standing. Thereby, those rights the government grants you, the government must also grant me. If you are given the right to marry the person you love, and with that right come benefits and privileges, then I also must be afforded this same right.

      All that said, I'm genuinely curious as to what you think "the gay lifestyle" actually is?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • Primewonk

      There is no way that I'm am going to approve the black lifestyle, but to attack it in this sort of way is shameful. (religious îdiots © 1920)

      There is no way that I'm am going to approve of interracial marriage, but to attack it in this sort of way is shameful. (religious îdiots ©1968)

      There is no way that I'm am going to approve of equal rights for women, but to attack it in this sort of way is shameful. (religious îdiots © 1975)

      See how silly it is?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Bo

      I hope that when/if you have children, and one of them is gay, that you accept and love them.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
  14. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    The posts defending these hateful dolts do more harm to the cause of Christianity than the videos themselves. Keep right on, Topher and you other fundy cheerleaders. You're tolling the bell for yourselves.

    June 21, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
  15. WASP

    i imagine these wacos failed to research the definition of morality.......
    "The term “morality” can be used either
    descriptively to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or,
    some other group, such as a religion, or
    accepted by an individual for her own behavior or
    normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons."

    if 54% state something is moral, then by gandi it's moral. thus being gay is moral, except for these backwoods freaks.

    June 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • Nii

      WASP
      It is not a Christian virtue to sanction non-Christians for loose morals. If u want to use majority. Then the Genocide committed in Germany, Rwanda n Yugoslavia were right cos majority of the people in those coubtries felt it was right. Morality is not a democratic ethic. IT IS INTUITIVE!

      June 21, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Nii,

      you've hit the nail squarely. "Morality is intuitive." Precisely correct. It does not need to be handed down on graven tablets from a burning bush.

      We all know how to distiguish right from wrong. Where we disagree a consensus emerges – this is morality.

      June 21, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
    • Nii

      I don't approve gay se.x but I love gays as myself. It is spiritually Im.ma.tu.re to think yourself a better sinner than another. Hating a sinner is sin. If God loves them as himself then we should too!

      June 21, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
    • Nii

      NOT GOP
      It is intuitive. Where we disagree we have legalism. The knowledge the tree of knowledge of good and evil gave us.
      I am not saying that it is true beyond doubt that there was Adam n Eve.
      It is the concept I am talking of.
      Whatever be the case where spirituality is conscience bears fruit.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • WASP

      @nii: "Then the Genocide committed in Germany, Rwanda n Yugoslavia were right cos majority of the people in those coubtries felt it was right."

      seriously read your comment. yes by majority those actions were deemed immoral, due to the fact we fought WW2 to free those in those camps; we sent in the UN to squash the genocide in those other countries, america provided finacial and agricultural help to those areas. so YES majority still ruled in those situations. see how it works, majority saids being gay is moral and majority said killing innocent people was immoral.
      so what is your excuse for being immoral?

      June 21, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Nii,

      'legalism' is an ambiguous term. I assume you use it in the pejorative theological sense. But you implicitly agree that despite being intuitive, people disagree over a sense of what is right and wrong. Despite the disagreement, consensus not only emerges but changes with time.

      Slavery is condoned in the Bible. No Christian condones slavery today. What changed? Not the bible. Morality and the consensus of right and wrong changed. Do you believe this is "legalism"?

      June 21, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
    • echamberlain

      @WASP, your statement is not entirely correct, gays were left in the camps as criminals by the Allied forces.

      June 21, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • ingune joe

      Alot of folks on here talk about different things that are in the bible, without knowing the history behind it. you cannot read just one verse to understand, you need to read the whole book. As far as the bible condoning slavery, that was in the Old Testament, which is also known as the Law. When Jesus came in the New Testament, he released us from the Laws of the old Testament. Just sayin before all ya'll go crackin on something, you should learn a little more about what you are talking about. You don't have to believe in it, but you should read it before you go making claims about what it says. Just sayin

      June 21, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
  16. Hypatia

    is hate speech, no matter what the speaker uses as a 'justification'.

    June 21, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
  17. Bootyfunk

    sad that in 2012 there's still this kind of ignorance and fear of g.ays.

    June 21, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Cherries

      People overall have become more tolerant over the last few decades. Try to remember you're up against gererations and generations of folks believing that this is taboo.

      June 21, 2012 at 1:36 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Cherries – In a poll commissioned by Republicans down south in April 2011 – Almost half (46%) of Republicans in Misssissippi said that interracial marriage should be illegal. Additionally, 88% of Republicans said Obama was not a Christian, and 52% said Obama was a Muslim. Results in Alabama were similar.

      Nationwide – one third of Republicans believe President Obama was borm in Kenya.

      How, exactly, are these folks getting more tolerant?

      June 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
  18. LeeCMH

    "I've never heard of or seen a violent confrontation" that resulted from Christian preaching, [Stetzer] said. What about the bombing and killing of people at abortion clinics? Those are violent expressions of Christian Hatred. Christians use their religion as a veneer of respectability covering their real hateful venom.

    June 21, 2012 at 1:22 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      You make a very good point there and I missed that in a first reading.

      It certainly was a very glib comment that I would say is in contrast to Jesus' message:

      Quoting the article: "The sermons of Worley, Knapp and those like them do not have a great influence, Stetzer said, calling them "isolated." "I've never heard of or seen a violent confrontation" that resulted from Christian preaching, he said."

      The notion that "preaching hate" doesn't really matter because few people hear it, flies in the face of the notion of failing to help 'the least of these my brothers'. Any harm caused is bad.

      June 21, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • Primewonk

      "The sermons of Worley, Knapp and those like them do not have a great influence, Stetzer said, calling them "isolated."

      In days of yore (whenever "yore" was), he would have been right. Shear physical distance from these isolated îdiots would make the spreading of hate more difficult. That isn't the case today. Thanks to the intertubz, we all can have access to this îdiocy at the speed of light.

      This is both good and bad. It allows like-minded cretins to find solace and support amongst others who hold these beliefs (the bad). But it also allows every one else to see how black-hearted they really are (the good).

      Remember, no child is born a hômophobe, or misogynistic, or racist, or xenophobic, or a bigot, or a theist. They learn these behaviors and beliefs from their parents, caregivers, family members, and religious groups. The young boy singing in the video was not born that way. He wasn't born hating gay folks. His church taught him that.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Primewonk,

      indeed so. These preachers present prima facie evidence that religion not only can be, but is frequently immoral. It is often 'wrong' in the deepest sense of the word and the religious PR movement can't do anything but try to rationalize and sheepishly look at their toes and squirm.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Primewonk

      @ Not a GOPer – believe it or not, my real problem / frustration is not with these îdiot fundamentalists. They are moral & ethical equivalent of pond scûm. My problem is with the "'mainstream" theists. Where the hell is their outrage? Why are they – for the most part – silent? Why are not tens and hundreds of thousands of rational theists descending on these pockets of hate and speaking out against it? Why aren't hundreds of thousands and millions of them flooding all these forums, boards, and websites showing their outrage?

      All too often a rational theist comments that we shouldn't lump aall of them together. And we shouldn't. And for the record – I'm one of the biggest offenders. But it's just not enough to say we shouldn't lump them together. Theists need to police themselves. They need to speak out and scream out against this îdiocy if they don't want folks like me to not lump them together.

      June 21, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • echamberlain

      Why would anyone give any credibility to a guy that is a member of a chruch founded upon slavery?

      June 21, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
  19. William Demuth

    Topher

    I hate to break it to you, but no you don't.

    You are apologetic for your beliefs, it’s the first sign of cognitive resonance.

    You hear things every day that make you doubt. The closer you listen the more repulsed you shall become.

    I am not the least bit surprised you are a fundy (it’s obvious) and you’re not the first who came here claiming to be one.

    Hopefully, as we have with the others, we can have the joy of watching you mature to break the mental chains you have been shackled with.

    June 21, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • Johnny

      I think you mean cognitive dissonance.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • William Demuth

      No. I meant resonance.

      It is the sound of doubt bouncing around in your brain.

      Sooner or later, you can no longer ignore it.

      Humans recognize more than we admit, and it adds up.

      June 21, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • Which God??

      Well said, Sir!

      June 21, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
  20. And the Christian Moron-A-Thon Continues

    I really loved hearing his parishoners. It's so clear that A: they are raging bigots also, B: they don't have the guts to say what they really believe, and C: they are total morons.

    Keep it up, y'all! You are doing some fine recruiting for secularism.

    June 21, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Are you for Secular Evangelizing??

      June 21, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.