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June 28th, 2012
04:36 PM ET
First lady implores black churchgoers to get politicalBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - First lady Michelle Obama made an impassioned pitch for black churchgoers to embrace political action on Thursday in a speech to the country’s oldest black religious denomination. “To anyone who says that church is no place to talk about these issues, you tell them there is no place better,” Obama said at a conference of the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Nashville, Tennessee. “Because ultimately, these are not just political issues,” she said. “They are moral issues.” With Election Day a little more than four months away, the first lady decried what she suggested was voter apathy in the black community. “How many of us have asked someone whether they’re going to vote, and (they) tell us, ‘No, I voted last time,’ or ‘Is there really an election going on?’ ” “After so many folks sacrificed so much so that we could make our voices heard, so many of us just can’t be bothered,” she said. Obama said that while some voters were “tuning out” and “staying home,” powerful interests are busy raising money to influence Washington. Barack Obama took 96% of the black vote in 2008, and strong turnout among African-Americans and other minorities will be crucial if he hopes to win a second term, analysts say. Surveys show that African-Americans attend church in higher numbers than white Americans do, and Democratic politicians have long made a habit of speaking from black pulpits in the leadup to Election Day. The AME Church has a general convention every four years. The first lady also spoke of her husband on Thursday, telling the story of a photo hanging in the Oval Office that shows the president meeting a 5-year-old African-American boy at the White House three years ago. White House photographers change the photos hanging in the West Wing ever couple of weeks, Michelle Obama said, except for that one. “If you ever wonder whether change is possible in this country, I want you to think about that little black boy in the Oval Office of the White House touching the head of the first black president.” She said blacks had to actively make good on their centuries-old legacy of political activism, mentioning names like Frederick Douglass and Rosa Parks. “Today, the connection between our laws and our lives isn’t always as clear as it was 50 years or 150 years ago,” she said. “And as a result, it’s sometimes easy to assume that the battles in our courts and legislatures have all been won.” In her speech, Obama promoted causes like investing in roads and schools, creating jobs and taking care of veterans. “Our faith journey isn’t just about showing up on Sunday for a good sermon and good music and a good meal,” she said. “It’s about what we do Monday through Saturday as well.”
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Michelle is driving the delusional for votes and using racism as fuel. Get these 2 trouble makers out of the whitehouse or we are headed for another civil war.
Wrong – racism is telling the masses of poor minorities that capitalism trickle down will help them out of poverty while the GOP destroys the education system to keep the working class poor and dependent.
Oh, i thought we were still fighting the last one...
No, racism is when the domestic terrorist elements of the tea party sabatoges and blows up the oil rid in the Gulf of Mexico to make the President's job more difficult! Racism is when they spread their bigotry and hatred and use their divisiveness and fear mongering to influence a lunatic to gun down Rep. Gabriella Giffors and others! It is when the rightwing elements drives around with bumper stickers calling for the assassination of our President or doing so in mewspaper articles. Racism is when you call the President of the United States of America a food stamp president for looking out for Americans. Racism is when you call our President a muslim and a socialist and ask him to show his birth certificate and so on! That is racism in its most extreme form!
Central park west. There are countries where capitalism is not allowed. You might go to one of those countries and get a dose of reality. There is no trickle down theory in capitalism. There is just opportunity for everyone, no matter your race.
Topher
No, Why do you think it is morally acceptable. Seems your religion is based on a fundamental immorality.
I am Sarah Palin. I am spawned of my mother's anus.
Michelle has evolved into the iconic First Lady of our generation. I must say that she is dynamic, her story compelling and the causes she supports were needed 3 decades ago – Go Military Families!
Keep your religion out of my Politics. And if you cant I say we strip all church's of their tax exemption. Let Joel Osteen & the gang help pay down this debt.
When the same government that legislates away our rights through indefinite detention, domestic use of propaganda, domestic use of drones, and extension of the patriot act claims to be doing something for moral reasons they are clearly just pandering to voters.
ONE MORE TIME !!
WHAT? Is it not the liberals who give the RCC so much grief when they "get political" during their sermons????
that's correct. let a preacher talk politics in the pulpit and the IRS will threaten to revoke tax exempt status
The Democrats need to play dirtier, like the Republicans already do. We should send out a chain email saying that Republicans have a secret plan to go back to the 3/5 rule for black voters. That will rile people up. Of course it's totally ridiculously false, but so is "Obama's coming for your guns" that they spew.
This has been up since yesterday and you still haven't bothered to fix the grammar gaff in the paragraph: "White House photographers change the photos hanging in the West Wing ever couple of weeks, Michelle Obama said, except for that one."
“To anyone who says that church is no place to talk about these issues, you tell them there is no place better,” Obama said
Funny; every time I attend my all-White (Russian Orthodox) church, we worship God. That's all we do. I've always suspected the black "church" began as a covert way for slaves to assemble and discuss their situation in a way that appeared reasonable to "ol' Massa". The AME Zion "church" should be investigated as a political front.
Can you imagine the uproar if a Republican went to a Church and said "get involved"? MSNBC and CNN would be screaming about separation of church and state. No hypocrisy here folks.
Umm, Bachmann, Perry, Romney, Palin, Santorum....do you live under a rock?
My thoughts exactly. If Romeny did this in his Mormon tabernacle EVERYONE
Chubby is missing the point. When those you listed do talk about politics with church people, all you liberals DO cry out about seperation of church and state. But when one of the Dems does it, it's just good business. lol. .
You do realize that almost every church encourages their congregants to "get political." The Catholic Church does this with abortion, the Mormon Church did this with gay marriage in California. Furthermore Rick Santorum practically lived in churches during his primary run.
Eric, good job with the over-generalization. You obviously have an unbiased view...
Separation of church and state means no laws will me made preferentially to a religious group, no funds allocated based on religion. That clearly does not apply here. The problem "all you liberals" have is with an agenda that aims to use the government to impose religious dogma on nonbelievers and infringe upon their rights. The hypocrisy that you see is imagined.
But don't lie, or at least keep the lies and hypocrisy down to a minimum. And, most of all, respect and don't try to fool the American populace. And, remember, too, most of us have ALWAYS been proud of America.
Thank you, cliche republican...
She should listen to what her husband has to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdB1_KFOhnU
Prayer changes things .
Braind dead!
if I only had a braind
Brain with a "d" at the end signifies a dead brain. Everybody knows that! 🙂
Specific, repeatable examples or GTFO.
Religion is bad for mental health.
Then enlighten me as to why you are commenting on a religious website?
...and your pocket book.
Charitable attempt at trying to some sense in the brainwashed, sick minds.
And you do that by posting comments you know are going to be either ignored or reacted to?
None of the comments here really matter one way or another. It's not like anybody actually reads them.
At least we agree on that 🙂 Don't worry man, I'm not a hate-filled maniac like many Christians you meet... If we met in real life we would probably get along fine...
A/A voters came out in record numbers in 2008.....96% of A/A voters voted for Obama in 2008.....
What position was it that he took again that got him elected??? Looks like he didn't have to take one according to those numbers. Based on his track record in the White House, it seems he was fortunate not to have to take any stance...
ATTENTION ALL WHITE CHURCHES!!! We now have precedent and permission to openly campaign against Barack Obama and his policies, as well as any legislation or candidates with whom we disagree. Further, we now have precedent and permission to use our race as a rallying point, and a basis to motivate our congregants. Effectively immediately, please inform your WHITE congregants that they should support Mitt Romney. Because, it's not only the political thing to to, it's the MORAL THING TO DO. (PS. We should now ask our white brothers and sisters in Congress to form a Congressional WHITE Caucus.
Sorry Nancy, but your ignorant tea bagger candidates like Palin, Bachmann, Perry, Santorum, Gingrich, etc. were doing the same thing in your fundiot white churches.
Perhaps I missed it, but I went back over some of those stories, and didn't see your name in the comments expressing equal outrage.
Could you explain this dicotomy?
Some of us "white people" couldn't disagree with you more, Nancy. I know a lot of us "white people"
who have absolutely NO interest in Romney class and gender warfare. Stop trying to make this about
color-and "think" about what you and your right winged friends are doing to this country!
Um, I think Nancy was being sarcastic, @primewonk and @local business owner. Trying to point out how ridiculous it is to encourage someone to vote for a candidate based primarily on said candidate's race.
Sorry there Nancyy: It is already being done.
While Church is the right place to discuss moral issues – the forefathers went to great lengths to seperate church and state. This political fodder sounds like despiration on part of Obama and company. They pretty much PO'd a lot of people with the health care initiative – should be an interesting election. However, POLITICS AND CHURCH is a major no no!
Michelle ir right, get involved – it's mostly young black women that benefit from abortion laws. Get political, or get swamped with unwanted, soon-to-be-criminal children.
Or keep your fricken legs shut...
Sure, that's why there are 7 billion people, about 3 billion past Earth carrying capaciy.
I mean if you can't afford to risk getting pregnant, than don't sleep with every guy that buys you a chicken nugget biscuit dip it all in mashed potatoes.
These are mostly uneducated women that have no clue. Education is the key, without religion.
Education without religion is what public schools have become. Who, in turn, produce these loose women with no moral standards.
Believe me, I'm well aware that many private schools have their own set of problems, but rampant teen pregnancy is not one of them... (it is the exception, not the norm)
There's an easy solution – free abortion. Once or twice and even the lowest IQ woman gets it. And get her boyfriend in there, too. It's not a pleasant experience. Have you ever hear the scrubbing noise?
There is no "easy" solution. Americans just need to grow some "character balls"...
Today's generation of African-Americans are too complacent and ignorant of their heritage and their history and often seem to have forgotten or seem to be totally unaware of the plight and struggles of their forefathers for racial justice and equality in America! But at the same time, too many African-Americans who were young and around when the Civil Rights movement had taken effect seem to have forgotten how their parents and grandparents were discriminated against, beaten, segregated and rendered second class citizens and sometimes lynched by white supremacists in this country. I say the best way to remind our people what we went through for our freedoms is to show them films and literature about the 1954 Montgomey Bus Boycott, the 1957 desegregation campaign at Little Rock, the 1960 Sit-ins, the 1961 Freedom Rides, the 1963 Birmingham harch to Washington, the 1964 Freedom Summer. But don't stop there...tell them about the 1965 March from Selma to Montgomery and the story about "Bloody Sunday." Tell them about the story of LaFlore County, Miss, the poorest county in the nation where Missi govt cut off food aid to poor blacks and blockade the town to stifle it from outside help because people Like Medgar Evers and others were conducting voter registration classes to teach blacks how to vote! Tell them about the story of Medgar Evers who was gunned down by the KKK in from of his wife and kids for his efforts to educate blacks on how to vote or abot the three Civil Rights workers who were murdered in Mississippi for their efforts in the Freedom rides! Tell them about Farmer Herbert Lee who was shot in the head for attending voter registration classes or about Reverand George Lee who was taken outside and shot by the KKK in 1966 for refusing to remove his name from a voter registration list. Go on and tell them the countless stories of a people who struggled for racial justice and equality in American one hundred years after the emancipation proclamation! Then maybe then, our people will start to understand and grasp what their ancestors endured for our freedoms. And when all is said and done, try to remind them that our freedom in America came the old fashion way! We earned it!
If anyone has a question about Christianity, feel free to ask ...
Why is it so immoral?
When will it end? Soon, hopefully. Arrest the pope and Vatican for racketeering!
I didn't say Catholicism ...
Why do christians think that it acceptable for someone else to take punishment for things they have done wrong?
God-less America
Do you mean why is it OK for Jesus to take the punishment we deserve?
Why do we deserve punishment? Why is the christian faith any truer than any of the other religions people believe? Why does God give kids cancer? We'll start with those three.
chubby rain
"Why do we deserve punishment?"
Because we break the laws.
"Why is the christian faith any truer than any of the other religions people believe?"
Way too broad to completely answer on a message board. The question shouldn't be is it truer. It should be is it true? Because if Christianity is true, the others can't be.
"Why does God give kids cancer?"
He doesn't. Yes, people get cancer, but we live in a fallen world and death thus exists because of the curse.
If Jesus is god why did he give so much bad advice?
Topher
You said we deserve punishment because we brake the laws. Are the laws just?
Such as?
Huebert
"Are the laws just?" Absolutely.
Topher
Is it just to punish someone for a transgression they did not commit. Ex: The belief that everyone is born condemned to hell for the original sin of defying god in the garden.
'Take no thought for tomorrow'.....
Topher
No I mean why do you think is is morally acceptable? Seems to me your entire religion is based on fundamental immorality.
If I do something wrong I would not ALLOW someone else to take my punishmen
Huebert
"Is it just to punish someone for a transgression they did not commit. Ex: The belief that everyone is born condemned to hell for the original sin of defying god in the garden."
You are not going to be punished for what Adam did. You will be punished for lying, stealing, looking with lust ... It's your fault for breaking His laws.
God-less America
"If I do something wrong I would not ALLOW someone else to take my punishmen"
Then you will be eternally punished. If you don't have a savior to take your punishment, what are you going to do? You cannot do anything to make up for your sins.
"looking with lust ... "
Punished for a 'thought crime'. Like I said, why is your religion so full of immorality and bad advice.
@Topher,
"You are not going to be punished for what Adam did. You will be punished for lying, stealing, looking with lust ... It's your fault for breaking His laws."
If the world is cursed, or 'fallen', because of Adam's and Eve's actions then we are already being punished for their transgressions. Perhaps, lying and stealing would not happen if the world were not imperfect.
Topher
So, according to you, infinite punishment for a finite crime is just?
Then I either do the immoral thing of letting someone else take my punishment or I burn forever
So I do the immoral thing and allow it, which is a sin, so I then have too allow it again, which is a sin, so I have to allow it again..etc, etc, etc.
pretzel logic.
Just Claims, No Truth
"Punished for a 'thought crime'. Like I said, why is your religion so full of immorality and bad advice."
This isn't immoral. This just shows how high God's standard is. He even sees our thought life. He requires moral perfection and that includes your thoughts. What if we were able to record your thoughts for a month and then invite all your friends and family over to watch it. How much would you be embarrassed for your mother to see?
So let me get this straight. We are all sinners due to the stringency of the laws. The punishment is burning in hell for all eternity. Yet going to church once a week and saying you're sorry is enough to prevent that.
"All religions can't be true, but they can be false." My question was, why are my odds any better with the Christian religion (being generous here and not splitting it into denominations) that any of the other religions.
Yep, the omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent God doesn't give kids cancer – he just watches them die slowly and painfully. If this world is evil and impure, then God is either ignorant, evil and impure, or impotent and unable to change this world.
ME II
"If the world is cursed, or 'fallen', because of Adam's and Eve's actions then we are already being punished for their transgressions. Perhaps, lying and stealing would not happen if the world were not imperfect."
True. The world "groans" because of the curse. But despite our knowing what the results of sin are, people still commit them every day. Have no fear, though. God has promised a new heavens and a new Earth in which there will be only paradise.
Thought crimes are immoral. Would it be moral to put someone in prison for thinking about killing someone? Your religion is immoral.
Huebert
Yes. Because it is a rejection of God. He told you never to do something, but you do it and probably do it all the time. Your question makes it sound like you have only committed one sin in your entire life. But the reality is you've probably accu.mulated thousands. How many times in your life have you told a lie? Or stolen something? Or used blasphemy? Or looked at someone with a se.xual thought?
@Topher,
Thanks for the non-answer. If you can't even rationalize your belief, then why subject yourself to such questioning. Self-flagellation for the digital age?
"He told you never to do something,"
No he didn't, there is no evidence there is a god much less your immoral version of a god..
chubby rain
"So let me get this straight. We are all sinners due to the stringency of the laws. The punishment is burning in hell for all eternity. Yet going to church once a week and saying you're sorry is enough to prevent that."
NO! It's not. Going to church and saying you are sorry won't save you. You should say you are sorry because you did wrong. But you still must pay for your crime. You don't understand the Gospel. What you must do to be saved is repent (not just say you are sorry but also turn away from and stop doing those sins) and trust Jesus Christ to be able to pay for your sins. That is what He did on the cross. He took the punishment you deserve because He loves you and knows there's nothing you can do to earn Heaven.
"My question was, why are my odds any better with the Christian religion (being generous here and not splitting it into denominations) that any of the other religions."
You'll have to look into it yourself and decide whether it is true or not. But I'll tell you this: Only Christianity provides payment for your sins. ALL others says you can do something to maybe get there, but you also have to hope that god is in a good mood that day. Only Christianity says the work has already been done and can give you assurance about where you will go in eternity.
"Yep, the omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent God doesn't give kids cancer – he just watches them die slowly and painfully. If this world is evil and impure, then God is either ignorant, evil and impure, or impotent and unable to change this world."
He died taking your punishment so you don't have to. Sounds like He changed the world alot to me.
@Topher
One sin or one billion sins, it's still a finite number. My life will only last so long, and in an eternal time line my life and a gnat's life are about equal in duration. My point is that infinite punishment can NEVER be just. We as humans just don't have the capacity, or time, to do anything that would require such extreme measures.
Sry about the delay in response CNN keeps posting my replies in the wrong place.
Just Claims, No Truth
"Thought crimes are immoral. Would it be moral to put someone in prison for thinking about killing someone? Your religion is immoral."
According to man's standard. You can't give man's attributes to God because He's higher than that. You complain you can't punish someone for thinking about murder, yet we allow murderers to walk free all the time. Not only that, but did you know there's about a 50 percent arrest rate for murders? In the 90s alone, something like 100,000 murders went unsolved. God requires perfection in word, mind and deed. And since you're like the rest of us, a sinner, what are you going to say to God on Judgment Day?
ME II
Sorry. What did I not answer? I admit I'm answering a lot of things from a lot of people so I might have missed something.
"Only Christianity says the work has already been done and can give you assurance about where you will go in eternity."
So basically christianity has a better tag line.
"Brand A can get out grass stains, Brand B can get out oil stains. Only TIDE can do it ALL"
Snake oil salesman at their best.
Huebert
"My point is that infinite punishment can NEVER be just."
So what you are saying WOULD be just is that despite our constant sinning against God, He should just forgive you and let you into Heaven? First of all, how would that work in a courtroom? If you are found guilty, are you just going to say "I'm really sorry your honor. Now you should just let me go." Would a good judge just let you walk? Of course not! A good judge will say you must pay your fine. And that's why a good and just God must sentence you for your punishment. Unless, of course, you have someone pay that fine for you.
"what are you going to say to God on Judgment Day?"
If he is anything like the immoral god you claim he is I am going to tell him he is a pri.ck and he should knock it off.
Topher
A judge would sentence you to an appropriate punishment he would not execute you for petty theft, or drug possession. Punishment must be in proportion to the crime. Your god only offers one punishment for all crimes, that is unjust.
Just Claims, No Truth
So you choose Hell?
"He should just forgive you and let you into Heaven?"
Oh but Topher that is exactly what your religion teaches, just ask for forgivness and believe in your god and you get off scott free. Jeffrey Dahmer converted to christianity so he gets off for his crimes, but I get to burn even though my crimes are petty in comparison I don't BELIEVE so I should be severly punished. Your god is nothing like a judge in a court of law. A court of law recognizes not all crimes are equal, your god says that lying and murder are the same which is more immorality.
Huebert
You keep ignoring the fact you can still go to Heaven.
Topher
Just Claims, No Truth
So you choose Hell?
-----
Where can I find this on mapquest?
No Topher, I don't choose hell. Luckly your religion and version of god is so flawed and immoral there is no chance it is true, but for the sake of argument I would not worship your god under any circ.umstance.
Question: Noah was sent two of every animal to fill the ark and save them from the great flood. What about the creatures that require three such as ants, bees and termites?
Just Claims, No Truth
"Oh but Topher that is exactly what your religion teaches, just ask for forgivness and believe in your god and you get off scott free."
You are forgetting repentence. Jesus said you must be born again. Just asking forgiveness isn't going to save you. See earlier post.
"Jeffrey Dahmer converted to christianity so he gets off for his crimes, but I get to burn even though my crimes are petty in comparison I don't BELIEVE so I should be severly punished. Your god is nothing like a judge in a court of law. A court of law recognizes not all crimes are equal, your god says that lying and murder are the same which is more immorality."
Again, you are trying to push man's morality and attributes onto God. He's perfect and holy and just and requires perfection from you. And since we aren't perfect, He provided a way for us.
God-less America
"Question: Noah was sent two of every animal to fill the ark and save them from the great flood. What about the creatures that require three such as ants, bees and termites?"
I don't know about these specific things, but not everything was "by two". Genesis 7: "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to the by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of the earth."
So which are the "clean beasts" and which are the "unclean"?
Also, were all of these creatures as they are now, or does evolution play a part?
"Again, you are trying to push man's morality and attributes onto God."
Man's morality is more moral. Your god is not perfect, a perfect god would not need ANYTHING in order to not punish his 'sons and daughters' for eternity. I would not treat my worst enemy the way you say god is going to treat me. I am more moral than your god, and so are you.
God-less America
"So which are the "clean beasts" and which are the "unclean"?"
All of that is laid out in the OT. You should go read it.
"Also, were all of these creatures as they are now, or does evolution play a part?"
What do you mean by evolution? Micro or macro?
Just Claims, No Truth
Look, we can go around and around on this. Man is not moral, we are wretched sinners, of which I am the chief. It would be UNJUST and UNMORAL not to punish lawbreakers. Besides, you can complain about how you are going to be treated, but forgiveness is offered. It is your choice.
Why is there such diversity apparant in the human species if we all came from a 600 year old man, his three sons and their respective wives a few thousand years ago?
Doc Vestibule
Read about what happened at the Tower of Babel.
Topher.
I have read your bible, cover to cover, several times in my life
Since it is interpreted by each reader differently, I was looking for your take.
If all species of animal that could not swim were on the ark, and all plants, viruses,bacteria, insects AND the OT specifies that Noah was to provide food ( and several species only eat other animals), you are looking at around over 1 million species ,and the food required to maintain them,and the water as well, and the soil for the plants
The arks dimensions give us roughly 1.5 million cubic feet. Simple math would indicate you will need a small fleet of arcs just for the food alone.
Then take into account that the water level was 20 feet above the highest mountain. The oxygen level would not be sufficient for most species to survive and the temperature is below freezing.
Was the ark like the TARDIS from Doctor Who?
"Besides, you can complain about how you are going to be treated, but forgiveness is offered."
Topher,
I am not complaining about how I am going to be treated, I am criticizing what you and your religion teaches as moral and just. Sins are transgressions against your god, your god is illogical and immoral, ergo, your god is false and does not exist.
@Topher,
"What do you mean by evolution? Micro or macro?"
Micro and macro are just a matter of degree of acc,umulation of change, the mechanisms are the same. Why would that matter to your answer?
Topher
My question re: evolution was because if all species were not as they are now, then a much lower number of creatures could exist and then evolve into the species we know today, making the ark actually possible other than the atmospheric problems.
If this is the case, then the story of Noah ark is proof of evolution.
ME II
Micro and macro (I can never remember which is which) matter because we know one exists but there is zero proof of the other. On the ark you had animals "after their kind." Which means you only needed to have two dogs (likely wolves) not two chihuauas, two great danes and on and on. This solves your space problems on the ark. Animals can change over several generations, but only within a kind. So yes, there is one kind of evolution (also known as speciation.)
@Topher,
"we know one exists but there is zero proof of the other."
You are incorrect. There is plenty of evidence (science doesn't deal in "proof") for evolution, "micros" and "macro". The difference, if you choose to make a distinction between the two, is only in the amount of change acc.umulated, i.e. accu.mulate enough changes in one population and they will no longer breed with another poplulation descended from the same ancestor and you have a new species. The same mechanisms that cause "micro" evolution also cause "macro" evolution, so if you accept "micro" it is really difficult to justify not accepting "macro" evolution.
"...you only needed to have two dogs (likely wolves) not two chihuauas, two great danes and on and on. This solves your space problems on the ark. Animals can change over several generations, but only within a kind."
I don't know the numbers off-hand, but I don't think there has been enough time since the ficti.tious global flood, ~10,000 years ago, to account for all species, even if starting with "kinds," whatever that is. "Although mDNA testing suggests a split between dogs and wolves around 100,000 years ago..." (Wikipedia, but a citation is provided there, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog)
You don't know the difference between the terms "micro" and "macro" but you are positive there is no evidence for ONE of them. Let me help. The one you say has zero eveidence for and the one that virtually all the credible biologists, geneticists, geologists, ect., ect., ect. in the enire world who have spent their lives studying, say is true, against all your accu.mulated 'knowledge', is "Macro".
Topher
"You keep ignoring the fact you can still go to Heaven"
The people who go to heaven have no bearing on my argument. I am saying that gods punishments are unjust, and therefor god is unjust.
@JCNT
Micro and macro evolution are not scientifically accepted terms. It's merely an attempt by opponents of evolution to try and discredit a good explanation for diversity of life.
HG,
Yes I am aware of that. I was just trying to help Topher know which is the one he doesn't believe in.
I did not state the scientific position very well.
Topher?
Sorry, boys. I thought you all left the conversation, so I did, too. I got in some PS3, but now I'm off to work. We'll have to continue this conversation next week. Have a great weekend and God bless!