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 Jesus depicted healing a sick child.
June 28th, 2012
08:45 AM ET
Would Jesus support health care reform?Editor’s note: This piece ran earlier this year, but we’re spotlighting it now because of Thursday’s health care decision from the Supreme Court. The story generated more than 3,000 comments, including these two:
What’s your take? By John Blake, CNN (CNN) - He was a healer, a provider of universal health care, a man of compassion who treated those with preexisting medical conditions. We don’t know what Jesus thought about the individual mandate or buying broccoli. But we do know how the New Testament describes him. The Gospels are filled with stories of Jesus physically healing the most vulnerable and despised people in his society. References to Jesus, of course, didn’t make into the recent U.S. Supreme Court’s hearings on the constitutionality of President Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act. Yet there is a moral dimension to this epic legal debate: How should the nation help its “least of these,” an estimated 50 million Americans who can’t afford health insurance, as well as those who could go broke or die because they can’t afford medical care? Christians are as divided about this question as others. Many cite Jesus, but come up with completely different conclusions. Trust God or government? Tom Prichard, a Lutheran and president of the Minnesota Family Council, said it’s ultimately about faith. Who do we trust – God or government? He opposes “Obamacare” because he has more faith in the market and people, than government. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories “Here Jesus’ words come to mind about not worrying and trusting God to meet our basic needs,” Prichard wrote in an online post warning about the dangers of “government run health care.” “Or if we believe it all depends on us, we’ll look to government.” When reached at his Minnesota office,Prichard elaborated: He said the nation should empower families and individuals to make health-care decisions. If families can’t afford health insurance, private and public entities like churches and nonprofits should step in, he said. “We all have the same goal,”Prichard said. “We want all people to have health care, even people who can’t afford it. I would argue that having the government be the primary vehicle for providing it is not going to get us to that goal. It’s going to make the situation worse.” Carl Raschke, a religious studies professor at the University of Denver, evoked Jesus’ words about Rome and taxation. Raschke cited the New Testament passage when Jesus, after being asked if Jews should pay taxes to Rome, said that people should "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." Jesus was against strictly political or economic solutions because he thought they were too easy when it comes to the real challenges of human life, Raschke said. “Writing checks won’t solve social problems,” Raschke said. “One has to get involved. If we see someone in need, we just don’t throw a dollar at him or her. You get to know them, you offer yourself, and ask what you can do for them.” Helping the Good Samaritans of our day There are some Christians, though, who say that charity isn’t enough to solve the nation’s health care problems. An estimated 32 million Americans could lose health insurance if “Obamacare” is struck down, including children who can stay on their parents’ insurance until they are 26 and seniors who get help paying for their drug prescriptions. Most observers say health care costs would continue to rise. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Some people believe the health care situation in America would be scandalous to Jesus because he was a prophet concerned about social justice. Steven Kraftchick, a religious scholar, said Jesus comes out of the tradition of Jewish prophets who preached that the health of a society could be measured by how well they took care of “its widows and orphans,” those who had the least power. Kraftchick said there’s a famous story in the Gospel of Mark in which Jesus heals such a person. He was the man who called himself Legion. He might have been called homeless and mentally ill. The man roamed a graveyard, so tormented that even chains could not hold him and everyone feared him, Mark wrote. Jesus healed the man not only physically, but socially as well, according to Mark. The man returned to his community with a sense of dignity, said Kraftchick, a professor at Emory University’s Candler School of Theology in Atlanta. “A move toward universal health care would be fitting with the prophetic traditions,” Kraftchick said. “When you read the New Testament and look at the signs of the in-breaking of the Kingdom of God, it’s always connected to being physically healed.” Yet Marcia Pally, an authority on evangelicals, said many evangelicals are wary of government doing the healing. Their reasons go back centuries. Many are the descendants of people who fled Europe because of religious persecution from countries and state churches. They fought a revolution against a government in England. And they settled a frontier, where the virtue of self-reliance was critical, said Pally, author of “The New Evangelicals: Expanding the Vision of the Common Good.” Suspicion of government is part of their historical and religious experience, said Pally, a professor at Fordham University and New York University. Those attitudes, though, may be changing. Pally said she spent six years traveling across America to interview evangelicals. She discovered that a new generation of evangelists now believes that certain issues are too big and complex to be addressed by charity alone. “Some note that charity is very good at the moment of emergency relief but it doesn’t change the underlying problem unless structures that keep people poor, sick or deny their access to health insurance are changed,” she said. No matter what the Supreme Court decides, the legal debate will continue. If more Americans go broke or die because they do not have health insurance, more Americans may ask, what would Jesus do? But don’t expect any easy answers from the Bible, said Raschke, the religious studies professor at the University of Denver. “People are always looking for support from the Bible for American political positions,” Rashke said. “Would Jesus be against abortion, or would he support a woman’s right to choose? It’s almost become a standard joke in the theological world that you quote Jesus in American politics to support your political views. “The teachings of Jesus do not fit into the views of any political party." soundoff (5,234 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 Next »
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one of the worst articles. ever. USA is supposed to be a model for other countries yet here we are 2,000 years late worrying about what a man and let me repeat a MAN in a fiction book supports? get out of here with this nonsense. i don't know if you people are so worried about death that you believe in this ridiculous fairy tale, but i'll tell you right now there is nothing to worry about when you are dead because guess what? YOU'RE DEAD. it's going to be like before you were born, absolutely nothing and complete blackness and the beauty of it? you won't even know you ever existed. would jesus support health care reform? HE WOULD SAY "WOW YOU AMERICANS ARE GREEDY AND IGNORANT – COMPLAINING ABOUT MORE TAXES IN ORDER TO SAVE LIVES? WOW YOU ARE TRULY A CHRISTIAN NATION"
: )
That is what YOU believe, there are millions of other people in this country and billion around the world who don't share your opinion.
Ah, the appeal to large numbers makes an argument correct. NOT!
Well billions of flys eat horse manure you should too. I know, I know this is an extreme example, but it does point out the fallacy that because a large number of people believe something does not make that belief correct.
As correctly flagged by 'ElmerGantry', post by 'Holly' is an instance of the ad populum fallacy.
http://fallacyfiles.org
Thanks for the link to the fallacies site.
Thanks Fallacy Spotting 101,
I checked out that site. It is very informative.
First thing Jesus would say is, "Hey, who's that white guy in the picture?"
First thing jeebus would REALLY say is: " Where's the girls and the beer?"
Jesus was into wine, not beer, and the miracle in Cana clearly shows that he wasn't against people getting drunk either.
Some mythohistorians have postulated that Christ's water to wine schtick was inserted into the Jesus mythos to demonstrate his superiority to Dionysus. Their biographies have many similarities.
what an ass hole Canadian thinks
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
Then what's he waiting for? Why not fix the problems?
--–
God gave man free will. We are fallen men but he gave us all the tools to get rid of the problems of the world. People just choose to ignore them. Don't blame God, he has done his part.
What about the free will of people who were murdered?
Oh, maybe it was the free will of the victim to be murdered.
Or god cares more about the free will of the murder than of the victim.
Do tell. So man can control tsunamis, earthquakes, and drought?
Notice how anyone opposing Chirstians don't actually have anything to say they just insult people.
So the mere asking for proof of the claim that prayer changes things is an insult.
Fascinating!
I rest my case.
Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
So we are to accept every thing you say because your interpretation of god is the correct one.
Got it. LOL
Are you reading the same material the rest of us are reading?
You mistake the comments. They are not insults, but mockery.
I have plenty to say. First of all the whole concept of religion was designed by government (leaders of tribes, etc) to control the masses. Religion came out of government and it was religion that blessed the authority of western leaders for centuries. Now as for the whole "what would jesus do" garbage if you follow the fairytales that non-existent person would be in favor of some type of universal healthcare. Decades ago it was local community churches that in most cases provided the safety net for the local community. Then came the "moral majority" which said poltics & money are more important than humanitarian missions in the community.
We are where we are in large part becaus religion has become a political tool rather than a social tool. Taking care of the fellow man has been dropped in favor of exercising political will to isolate the country and citizens if they don't fit into a certain mold that the WASP community defines.
When religion gets back to actually following what is in it's fairytalesto help mankind then we won't have these issues. I for one though don't need religion. I am able on my own to know that helping my fellow man will in turn help me. A healthy, educated society makes this a better country instead of the "all for more dollars" philosophy of modern religion. If you don't believe that to be a fact look at the size of local churches compared to 40 years ago. Look at the number of people online & on TV like creflo dollar who do nothing but preach about the $$.
Thats it exactly Gentry.
The mere questioning of a religious person is considered hate.
Just like when Bush said you are either with us or with the terrorists. Could not even bring up any middle ground or ask for proof of the WMDs or you were not a "patriot," whatever that means.
I found out long ago the one thing that infuriates a religious person is to question them on their "faith," or anything in their little book of secret spells.
So of course I question them even more.
None of you opposing Christians have offered anything to this conversation, why should anyone believe you have it all figured out.
@Holly
It is the Christians who make claims like prayer changes things. You are the claimant. The burden of proof is on the claimant not on the questioner.
You make the claim, you prove it. It is not up to any one else to prove or disprove your claim
the proof is in life. Prayer does indeed change things.
Sorry, platïtudes do not constïtute proof.
We now have exhibit B so graciously provided by nima,
See exhibit B added below.
ElmerGantry
Why ask such a question?
Perhaps part of CNN's attempt to outfox FAUX by luring the refugee FOX NEWS bloggers.
CNN trying to outfox FAUX NEWS appears to be a failed strategy, most of the FOX NEWS fans only want to hear what FOX NEWS tells them as they are willingly blind.
This strategy also has un-intended consequences.
The FAUX NEWS bloggers that post on CNN are stinking up CNN's blog
The presence of these refugee bloggers has the effect of driving away some of the regular CNN bloggers.
Is this effect a major or minor part of CNN's recent significant loss in viewership?
Maybe but I don't know, but one would think it would be in CNN's interest to ask its viewers some questions regarding the efficacy of its attempt to move to the right and outfox FAUX.
June 29, 2012 at 8:32 am | Report abuse | Reply
ElmerGantry
Exhibit A
SlinginPoo
Yea, you all have to go over and suck up to your Queen Chancellor Merkel!
June 29, 2012 at 8:22 am | Report abuse |
June 29, 2012 at 8:33 am | Report abuse |
ElmerGantry
Exhibit A redux
SlinginPoo
I expect to see an article on what would the prophet Mohammed do in this case? CNN only you would stoop so low! Your and your news agency is nothing but GARBAGE!
June 29, 2012 at 8:19 am | Report abuse | Reply
June 29, 2012 at 8:34 am | Report abuse |
ElmerGantry
Want to thank the aptly named SlinginPoo for providing evidence on such short notice.
June 29, 2012 at 8:36 am | Report abuse |
NOW WE HAVE
Exhibit B
nima
YES, Obama is a big lier. He lies to God!
He lies that that a true Christian should only care about the unborn not the poor!
He lies that we should be greedy and not allow other people to have the same privillege as we do!
He lies that we should do unfair business and use that money for charity to look good!
As you can read, Obama is the only lier.
June 29, 2012 at 11:06 am | Report abuse | Reply
The problem is that they do not like it when you use their book of fairytales against them. It is not the far left that created the whole "what would jesus do" mentality and marketing campaign. They have waived this nonsense in the public's face for years to push their agenda. However, when you turn the tables and discuss wwjd when it comes to social issues they cry "foul". They refuse to discuss the issue and start bashing the source of the question.
In other words what these people want is for the rest of us to blindly follow their book of fairytales the way they do. They do not like the light shed on religion by education, self awarness and open discussion. They never have and they never will becaus enlightenment is the death of religion.
@ironman,
Exactly right. They want us to be sheeple just like them. Willingly blind to the world. Yuck!
WWJD? Who knows? Not anyone living today. It's all speculative. For example, in my speculative mind Jesus was nothing more than an evengelical of his time. A free-loading bum living off the emotional void of others. But hey, that's just what I speculate.
Oh wow. I am so sorry you feel that way. Take care and I wish you well.
I too speculate the same thing.
The whole carpentry bizz was not working out, so he turned to store front preaching.
He is the first truely successful TV evangilists, he just didn't have TV and had to do it on the hoof.
But it worked out, until he infringed on the Roman evangilists and since they had more power, they did what all religious people do when confronted, they had him killed.
YES, Obama is a big lier. He lies to God!
He lies that that a true Christian should only care about the unborn not the poor!
He lies that we should be greedy and not allow other people to have the same privillege as we do!
He lies that we should do unfair business and use that money for charity to look good!
As you can read, Obama is the only lier.
But I bet he knows how to spell correctly 🙂
No, Jesus would not support Obamacare.
-First, He's Jesus the Son of God, also all-powerful and supremely righteous in the Godhead. Obamacare is filthyrags compared to Him.
-When He preached about caring for others, He put FIRST RESPONSIBILITY on each of us individually, second responsibility when to the body of Christ, after that (being a Jew),
-Whatever need the people and the church could not meet, the government could (this last part takes into account OT law – again, Jesus never talked about governmental responsibility in this area, though He didn't need to. When people that clinged to Moses' law asked Him about the law, His response was to follow the law).
-Being Identified at conception as the Christ he would not support any form of abortion. It is murder. And once again, He's Jesus. 'nuff said.
Taking this rhetorical question to generate conversation way too seriously.
@DCinAllen:” Obamacare is filthyrags compared to Him.”
According to the bible isn’t everything filthyrags before your god?
-When He preached about caring for others, He put FIRST RESPONSIBILITY on each of us”
Considering the millions of needy people in America, I’d say you Christians are failing miserably
“Whatever need the people and the church could not meet, the government could”
Exactly Christians and the church refuse to care for all the needy and so the government is trying to pick up your slack.
“Being Identified at conception as the Christ he would not support any form of abortion”
Christ never said anything against abortion, although he did make a big deal about taking care of the needy
“Being Identified at conception as the Christ he would not support any form of abortion”
Christ never said anything against abortion, although he did make a big deal about taking care of the needy
--
He didn't need to because it was already well indoctrinated in people that you cannot kill.
If murder is murder then why do Christians go to war, and why do some support the death penalty? You cannot use the "innocence" argument because some victims are not innocent people. We cannot go vigilante and kill someone who murdered a friend or family member, right?
His kingdom was not of this world.
stop taking the name of the Lord in vain already, you hypocrites.
@Bill O'Mare
You said, "stop taking the name of the Lord in vain already, you hypocrites."
Careful. Don't get too worked up about others not seeing your imaginary friend exactly the way you do. That kind of aggravation is only going to be detrimental to your health. High blood pressure and stress can severely reduce your life expectancy.
god invented lisinopril for situations like this.
In Jesus's own clear, simple and unequivocal promise about prayer from the new testament.
QUOTE
Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
END QUOTE
_______________________________________________________________________
[A true believer can ask a mountain to throw itself into the sea, and it will be done. LOL!]
_______________________________________________________________________
A true believer has maturity enough to follow the scriptures wisely, unlike nonbelievers here 😉
The cognitive dissonance in your brain caused by Jesus specifically, clearly, unequivocally stated you can ask a mountain to throw itself into the sea and it will happen; and you knowing your prayer to god for that to happen will fail, must be enormous.
EG-Your post is incoherent. May we suggest you follow this sequence
a) collect your thots
b)put them together in a sentence ,
c) read it first
d) and then you post it!
1was not an English major
2 collect your thots????? Look who's criticizing!
3 Using an imperfect sentence and not substance to counter comment is so effective, NOT
4 blogging from a small hand held device wit a small screen is problematic.
5 will use computer with much bigger screen later. BTW: not an excuse just an explanation.
All prayer is answered in Gods time.
Weasel words only the credulous could be proud of.
Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt,not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
_______________________________________________________________________
[A true believer can ask a mountain to throw itself into the sea, and it will be done. LOL!]
_______________________________________________________________________
There is a natural order in the way God does things. You do not get instant gratification from God, God is not McDonalds. Some prayers take centuries to be answered.
Or in the case of mountains being told to "throw themselves into the sea.", geologic processes of erosion operating over long periods of geologic time to transport eroded material eventually to the sea.
Aka science not a prayer to god.
“All prayer is answered in Gods time”
Prayers to my milk carton are answered just as often just as quickly and just as well as my prayers to god use to be.
God is the creator of science
@tr6
you need to know God to even communicate with Him. Without accepting your lost estate and turning your entire life over to Jesus your prayers would indeed have been unheard. You were never one of Gods.
truth be told
If God created science then creationists are sinners for the lies they spread about something God created, right?
@Cq
Exactly right. Who are these Christians to criticize and denounce the science that god created. LOL
ElmerGantry
Yes. Evolutionary science does not, for example, claim that humans evolved from monkeys, and it's been clarified enough times for creationists not to be innocently ignorant of this. So, all we can assume then is that, whenever a creationist says that evolution science states this, they know that they are lying. I assume that they do this thinking that they will be forgiven the breaking of a commandment for such a good cause as battling evolution, but it's still lying, and as they say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Their God probably wouldn't appreciate how they fight evolution, and they're condemning themselves by doing it. If I were one of them I'd almost wonder whose side the creationists are actually working for: God's, or the devil's?
jeebus would not support health care reforms. He will help those who help themselves. He made his requirements and process known with the laying on of his hands, the snake handling requirements, loaves and fishes thingy and the expectation that his father (him or his afterlife self ???) would take care of everything if given enough time to allow for his next visit. There you have it. It's been written down – just got to embrace it!
help those who help themselves?? Is that in the Bible??
@Victor
Even better than being in the bible, Ben Franklin was a devotee of the particular line of thinking. It probably had it origin in pre-jeebus Greece. If only the Greeks could get back to thinking like that!!!
Jesus is for one universal, catholic, holy and apostolic church. He is the prince of the one true Kingdom, the Lord of life. Under his rule there will be neither weeping, nor death, nor fear, nor pain. No more hunger, no more war, no more orphans and all men will live as brothers, infused with the love of their creator and each other. Then, of course, some will say "We can't stand for that! Tear it down! I demand my freedom from this tyranny!"
Then what's he waiting for? Why not fix the problems?
@Tom First ask yourself a question: "Am I part of the problem?"
Nice segue Prime. Not sure how we got here but here are my thoughts. We are all born to a sinful nature. Being "born that way" is exactly the point. The Christian life is about rising above our nature. Our orientation does not define the sin, our actions do. Ask yourself this, does being born arrogant, selfish, intolerant, lustful and greedy absolve anyone of the actions they take to satisfy their nature? The Catholic Church acknowledges that we all possess the nature to sin, we just hope to advance beyond our nature.
Hey, if Jesus needs me to fix problems, he's not omnipotent.
Most insightful comment by Tom ever
If God is omnipotent, then he's the one allowing people to be born gay. If he doesn't want them that way, he should stop making them that way.
I'd return the compliment, but you've never posted anything indicating insight.
Billy brays "Ask yourself this, does being born arrogant, selfish, intolerant, lustful and greedy absolve anyone of the actions they take to satisfy their nature?"
Hmm. "Intolerant", huh? How come you don't attempt to 'rise above' your nature, Billy?
A true incompetent, your jesus, if he is for all that BS you spouted and has been around for 2000 plus years and accomplished diddly squat. Meanwhile the vicar of christ on earth is doing just swell; got himself his own city, lots of fine buildings, fancy costumes, gold and jewels, a bunch of pointy hats, lots of art and manuscripts, a huge bank account, etc.
PS: The bank account would be a lot bigger if your guys didn't have to pay the settlements to all those boys your pedophile buddies abused.
Hello, everyone is invited to visit ... thestarofkaduri.com
Jesus would more than likely support socialism. Not to mention, have a drink with me and chat about the weather.
Apparently, HE can change water into a very palatable Pinot Noir, enloy, and you won't even have to pick up the tab.
Forgive ME for I have decided to post something so stupid you would think I am part of the Troll brigade.
I don't know why jesus just doesn't get in the business himself. He could round up all those who claim that they have the power of christ to heal, place them strategically around the coutry, in flower painted VW vans perhaps, and have them going around to the hospitals in their desginated areas and cure the sick. They would probably want to charge a small fee and the vicar of christ on earth would want to take his cut, but still it could be cheaper than paying all those doctors. I am not up on the later day saints, thingy, but if we could get Romney on board.
Funny
Your first sentence was correct.
But Bill, I asked for your forgiveness. Are you not willing to provide same, isn't it what you are required to do? Now don't be a bad christian, forgive me, c'mon you can do it.
Since stupidity is not a sin, there is no need for forgiveness. I do feel compassion for you however.
Bill wrote, "...stupidity is not a sin, there is no need for forgiveness".
So, PURPOSEFULLY CHOOSING to be stupid and ignorant is not a sin. But, NOT HAVING A CHOICE in being born gay is a sin?
And you wonder why we think you folks are nutters?
Not much humour in you christian types, dour and judgemental in the main. Anyway, thanks for your compassion, I will pass it on to one of the trolls that really needs it. PS: I find it kind of unchristian like that you would not forgive the stupid, are they not worthy in your world? Peace and love to you and yours.
Oh I understand your trying to be funny. Just like people who tell racists jokes. If you truly sought forgiveness you would have a conviction that what you do is wrong. But you do not. So you remain in your stupidity. There's nothing there to forgive. Perhaps one day you will forgive yourself for being a bigot.
The vans with flowers bit has already been tried. In the '60s and '70's, a generation of kids rose up and proclaimed "We can think for ourselves !" , then stupified their brains on drugs. The same bunch sang about love and peace. Then they found out love and peace are hard work. After that, they had no option but more drugs and a few more rounds of Kumbaya.
🙂
Prayer changes things .
No
yes
atheism is a lack of belief in any god figure...people have fought wars over belief but i can't think of one war fought for the lack of one...so isn't it more true to say that belief of any sort is not healthy for anyone and often leads one to an early death on average more so then atheism due to the amount one holds to their belief as true even in the light of a lack of proof.....interesting thought pattern you send me down.
All communist aggression was inspired by atheism as well as the murder of over a billion innocent people.
I am still here. You are going to have to pray a lot harder to prove that prayer changes anything. Try again, pray that all of us that post you are a fool or insane would just go away, try again, pray really, really hard.
yeah, but why think when can be just simply believe....and besides, your "god" said not to question him and so with that one could say that to be a true believer one never questions the truth nor even puts forth an effort to seek any....sad really
"All communist aggression was inspired by atheism as well as the murder of over a billion innocent people"
being a communist has nothing to do with any belief of any god....where do u morons get such ideas?
@elmers pantry,
Since Atheism is not... is a failure at eliminating the scourge of international sëx trafficking thru the use of prayer, maybe you are up to the challenge. Jesus himself stated in clear, simple, and unequivocally what can be done with prayer.
To wit,
Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things stated once again and again and again Ad Nauseum,
"Prayer changes things"
Earlier I challenged you to do something positive for humanity by praying to stop the international forced sëx trafficking of an estimatated 800,000 people.
To wit,
I see your prayers to stop the estimated 800,000 people who are forced into sëx traficking across international borders have not worked.
Wait since prayer changes things that means you have not been praying to stop this scourge on humanity.
Why won't you pray to stop this repulsive human abuse?
Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt,not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
_______________________________________________________________________
[A true believer can ask a mountain to throw itself into the sea, and it will be done. LOL!]
_______________________________________________________________________
Mark 9:23
All things are possible to him who believes.
Luke 1:37:
For with God nothing will be impossible.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it.
Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible.
So there you have it, straight from Jesus in the New Testament in clear, simple, and unequivocal terms.
"elmers pantry", You are a sincere believer are you not? Well if you are than you can make a mountain throw itself into the sea if you want to. You can also end world wide sëx trafficking as well, if you want to.
Do you want to?
If you do want to then do it.
If you don't do it then either you don't want to or you can not because prayer does not change things.
I will be watching the news for an announcement of your success. P.S. I will not be holding my breath however.
Do it and prove your case. Think of millions of converts to christianity you could achieve for the glory of god.
@hippypoet,
hippypoet
"....where do u morons get such ideas?"
The credulous willingly blind get their ideas from FAUX NEWS, where else?
FYI: regarding FOX demographics
1) about 3,000,000 viewers out of over 300,000,000
2) Median age of 65
3) African-American viewers, wait for it, a simply astounding 29,000
Well that says a lot.
Waiting for the news flash: elmers pantry ends sëx trafficking human abuse world wide thru prayer. 😉
Prayer changes things
Proven and doc-umented by Elmer Gantry
~Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!.
@"Atheism is...."
LOL
More non sequiter one liners.
Nothing new here, move along
Waiting for the news flash: "Atheism is..." ends sëx trafficking human abuse world wide thru prayer.
work in progress
Hey, ElmerGantry, thanks for your challenge, presenting a very clear case that prayer does nothing. Thanks also to you, HippyPoet, John the Guy..., and others, for your patience in standing up to the spammer and bully "Atheism is not", who is an annoying liar and overly-frequent poster of the usual sickening Christian nonsense.
How long will you pray before you realize it does not work.
Set realistic goals 1 day, 1 week, 1 month?
Let's know how long it will be before you have success.
FYI: any estimate approaching the age of the universe does not count.
How long will it be before success. No open ended guesses allowed.
All prayer requests are answered in Gods perfect time.
Wow,
"... In perfect time"
Weasel words to be proud of.
it is no shame to be proud of a God who has given so much to us. If there be anything weasel here it would be you .
"it is no shame to be proud of a God who has given so much to us. If there be anything weasel here it would be you ."
You don't have any proof and you're just making crap up.
@In Other Words
The burdon of proof is on the claimant.
It is you who claims that prayer changes things. It is up to you, the claimant, to provide proof of your claims, not me. I merely ask you to provide the proof.
Proof is evidence that could stand up in a court of law or reproducible evidence in a scientific investigation.
Proof is not constïtuted by generalized statements of you belief system.
If you can not back up your claim with solid, verifiable, reproducible evidence, then you claim is not worth very much.
OK claimant, make your case for prayer changes things with real reproducible and verifiable evidence.
He would not support helping the least by condition; with Christ it must always and only be unselfish, with no slightest spot of selfishness, and nothing wavering.
DELUSIONAL!!! GET BACK TO THE SANDBOX OR THE ASYLUM...EITHER WAY ONLY CHILDREN AND SCHIZOPHRENICS HAVE IMAGINARY FRIENDS!
Quit shouting at US you fooking Canadian.
elmers pantry: Hey loser, was I shouting at you? Canadian's at least have it together...we stand proud...can you say the same?
Canadians stand proud when praying the national anthem God keep our land
@elmers pantry,
WOW.
Now that was a logical, well thought out, well reasoned response. Chuckle chuckle.
Yep, using the disinformation tools of name calling, innuendo, and redirection of the conversation work so well to advance your point. Yeaaaaah Riiiiight.
Prayer aka Captain America aka elmers pantry aka Atheism Is Not... aka HeavenSent aka Herbie aka No-one care: You're an idiot!! We do not sing our anthem every day, nor do we agree with the word 'god' being it and some day that will change. You know nothing about Canada...you are a religitard and thus your opinion can't be trusted. Back to the asylum now you delusional schizophrenic!
@elmers pantry,
I did not know that the use of "sentence enhancers" was a Christian Family Value!
For thos who are unfamiliar with the term "sentence enhancer"; Sponge Bob episode tïtled "Sailor Mouth" LOL
When self righteous Canadians fail to influence Americans they tend to get hostile and vulgar. liar prevails is irrelevant to US and its own country as well. Lashing out and blaming others, the second danger sign.
Why ask such a question?
Perhaps part of CNN's attempt to outfox FAUX by luring the refugee FOX NEWS bloggers.
CNN trying to outfox FAUX NEWS appears to be a failed strategy, most of the FOX NEWS fans only want to hear what FOX NEWS tells them as they are willingly blind.
This strategy also has un-intended consequences.
The FAUX NEWS bloggers that post on CNN are stinking up CNN's blog
The presence of these refugee bloggers has the effect of driving away some of the regular CNN bloggers.
Is this effect a major or minor part of CNN's recent significant loss in viewership?
Maybe but I don't know, but one would think it would be in CNN's interest to ask its viewers some questions regarding the efficacy of its attempt to move to the right and outfox FAUX.
Exhibit A
SlinginPoo
Yea, you all have to go over and suck up to your Queen Chancellor Merkel!
June 29, 2012 at 8:22 am | Report abuse |
Exhibit A redux
SlinginPoo
I expect to see an article on what would the prophet Mohammed do in this case? CNN only you would stoop so low! Your and your news agency is nothing but GARBAGE!
June 29, 2012 at 8:19 am | Report abuse | Reply
Want to thank the aptly named SlinginPoo for providing evidence on such short notice.
I expect to see an article on what would the prophet Mohammed do in this case? CNN only you would stoop so low! Your and your news agency is nothing but GARBAGE!
It was a pretty valid question, actually.
This is someone else's priority.
America fails to approach my list of priorities.
Germany heads my list of priorities.
Us Believers get about a bit.
Maybe one day America will approach my list of priorities.
Yea, you all have to go over and suck up to your Queen Chancellor Merkel!
Whether you like it or not, America's economy/policies do have an impact on the rest of the world.
Correct Jacques