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June 29th, 2012
04:35 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Friday, June 29

By Laura Koran, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: First lady implores black churchgoers to get political
First lady Michelle Obama made an impassioned pitch for black churchgoers to embrace political action on Thursday in a speech to the country’s oldest black religious denomination. “To anyone who says that church is no place to talk about these issues, you tell them there is no place better,” Obama said at a conference of the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Nashville, Tennessee.

CNN: Would Jesus support health care reform?
He was a healer, a provider of universal health care, a man of compassion who treated those with preexisting medical conditions. We don’t know what Jesus thought about the individual mandate or buying broccoli. But we do know how the New Testament describes him. The Gospels are filled with stories of Jesus physically healing the most vulnerable and despised people in his society.

Tweet of the Day:

[tweet https://twitter.com/mboorstein/status/218392834464677890%5D

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

The Washington Post: Supreme Court ruling promises religious fights for the forseeable future
The Supreme Court’s decision Thursday to uphold the core of President Obama’s health care law guaranteed that the law and its potential impact on abortions and contraception will remain a powerfully divisive issue for religious groups for the forseeable future. Attorneys already challenging the law on behalf of mostly Catholic institutions said the decision opened the door for more future litigation. The decision immediately electrified religious progressives, including many Mainline Protestant and Reform Jewish leaders, who believe expanding coverage meets a core priority of Scripture to heal the sick.

Christianity Today: Founder of Singapore's Largest Megachurch Arrested Over Wife's Pop Music Outreach
Singapore's charities commissioner has charged the founder of a 30,000-member megachurch with diverting US$18 million in church funds in order to support the ministry-related singing career of his wife. City Harvest Church founder Kong Hee, along with four other church leaders, was arrested and charged this week with "conspiracy to commit criminal breach of trust." This is the biggest case involving misconduct at a registered charity in Singapore, according to Singapore Press Holdings' AsiaOne website.

The Huffington Post: Orthodox Jewish Woman Gives Birth During Vow Of Silence, Hides Baby Under Dress From Paramedics
After giving birth alone in her home, a Jerusalem Haredi woman hid her baby under her dress with the umbilical cord still attached, hid the placenta in a bag, and refused to speak to anyone including paramedics. The reason? She had pledged not to speak until the end of Shabbat on Saturday night, reports Haaretz.

Religion News Service: Ahmadiyya Muslims get warm welcome in Congress
The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is persecuted around the world, but it has plenty of friends on Capitol Hill. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., joined more than 20 House colleagues and at least one senator Wednesday (June 27) at a reception to mark the first visit of the Ahmadiyya’s spiritual leader, Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, to Congress.

Quote of the Day:

Living out our eternal salvation is not a once a week kind of deal. And, in a more literal sense, neither is citizenship. Democracy is also an every day activity. […] To anyone who says that church is no place to talk about these issues, you tell them, there is no place better. No place better, because ultimately these are not just political issues. They are moral issues.

First Lady Michelle Obama said in her remarks at the African Methodist Episcopal Church’s conference in Nashville, Tennessee on Thursday. Read more here.

Join the conversation…

A clinic such as this, where countless uninsured line up at dawn for free medical care, convinced one man to quit his Cigna job.

CNN: A health care 'Judas' recounts his conversion
When Wendell Potter first saw them, he froze. “It felt like touching an electrical fence,” he says. “I remember tearing up and thinking, how could this be real.” Thousands of them had lined up under a cloudy sky in an open field. Many had camped out the night before. When their turns came, doctors treated them in animal stalls and on gurneys placed on rain-soaked sidewalks.

- CNN's Laura Koran

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (283 Responses)
  1. Hmmm

    i am atheist i am smart i know everything anyone who disagrees with me is moron. im awesome i oversimplify everything because it makes me feel smart and i am so smart. i am atheist and i am leaps above all others, i am so special.

    Hope I didn't misspell or use incorrect grammar. I'm trusting that my "grandiose" thoughts are too large for you to comprehend and if you critize my grammar then it only makes you seem dumb.

    LMAO!!!!

    June 29, 2012 at 1:55 pm |
    • sam

      If you're this bored, shouldn't you be working a little harder at whatever passes for employment for you? Unless of course you're some little snot out of school for the summer, in which case...go mow the lawn.

      June 29, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
  2. hippypoet

    when did belief take back its poistion as above the virtue of knowledge?

    truly a sad commentary on the average intelligence of this nation!

    June 29, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • truth be told

      Too bad you with your "knowledge" can't enter a post without misspelling something. Might that type of ignorance give the edge to belief?

      June 29, 2012 at 1:55 pm |
    • clown question bro

      And you can't even spell properly.

      Talk about lack of intelligence.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
    • Hmmm

      Hippypoet – you really need to lay off the drugs man.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • hippypoet

      lol....yeah, tripping out while typing is rather hard.

      aside from the errors, respond to the message. i already said i don't have any respect for spelling beyond what i need to convey.

      June 29, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • Hmmm

      hippy – Dude nobody knows what you're trying to say because your thoughts include;

      a) Logical inconsistencies/fallacies
      b) Atrocious grammar, it's quite hard to decipher your 'gradiose" message from the rantings of a 7 year old
      c) Clear lack of education

      LMAO!!!!

      June 29, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • hippypoet

      lol, no logic fail here....read it again only take you time. and i am extremely consistant.
      again, i may have taken one too many hbwr.... no worries. 🙂

      June 29, 2012 at 2:30 pm |
    • clown question bro

      Learn to spell man.I cannot understand you..

      June 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • Bugs!

      Yo hipster! You do recognize that all of your detractors are the same person. Formerly TheCapitalist, also Star Performer and others.

      It's a pure trolling game from a 18-year-old twirp with nothing better to do with his teeny-tiny life. No need to even respond to him.

      June 29, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
  3. HeavenSent

    My face smells like goat rectum.

    Amen

    June 29, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
    • Badda Bing

      Now, now, phony HeavenSent! You are really being horrible! Why would you insult goat rectums like that?

      June 29, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent, the devil, that you love and worship ... kills all you atheists after you usher him into the world. Why? Because he's a liar, better than any of you.

      1 John 2:21-23

      21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
      22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
      23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

      Amen.

      June 30, 2012 at 12:25 pm |
  4. Thinker22

    The 'Multiverse' theory was invented as a possible explanation to the fact that the probability of our Universe to develop into what it is today from the moment of Big Bang is practically zero does to a lot of different physical parameters that had to be precisely adjusted to certain levels. The 'Multiverse' theory tells us that we're as lucky to live in our existing Universe as a jackpot winner: the probability to win millions in a lottery is extremely low but someone wins and our Universe is that someone. In a lottery there are many millions of losers. In a 'Multiverse' there are millions of empty Universes.

    June 29, 2012 at 1:31 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      One of the great divides between the theist and the atheist
      The theist says that the entire universe is adapted to fit us.
      The atheist says that we have adapted to fit the universe.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • Thinker22

      'Doc Vestibule'... Somehow I disagree with your claim about the theists. Do you have anything at all to support it? Hint: Most religious people I know say that the world was created to fit the God's will.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The world created to fit God's will.
      We have dominion over the entire world – everything that exists is for us to use.
      The Christian God is presented as anthropocentric and anthropomorphic.
      According to the Bible, mankind is the predilect object of Creation. We are the only creatures created in God's own image.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • I'm The Best

      @ Thinker,
      You talk of probability of something that we know nothing about. You say "the probability of our Universe to develop into what it is today from the moment of Big Bang is practically zero [do] to a lot of different physical parameters that had to be precisely adjusted to certain levels." The thing is, we don't know if these had to be precisely adjusted or not. We don't know of any other universe and therfore don't know if different physical parameters would yield a completely different universe. Yes, it would be different, but who's to say that life could still not evolve. We aren't even certain life couldn't evolve on a planet such as Jupiter or Saturn, much less a completely different universe. If gravity was slightly stronger or slightly weaker, would it make a difference? yes. Would it cause life to not develop? We don't know. So you saying the probability that this universe is the only one and that it just happends to be able to support life is not accurate. As far as we know, as long as the universe has the ability to form clumps of matter, then life could evolve.

      Also, with the big bang theory, it's set up in such a way that the original ball of energy that transformed into all the mass in the universe was (in theory) a perfect sphere with the only exception being due to heisenberg's uncertainty principle. This would show that the big bang didn't need any special creating. The probability of energy forming into anything other than a sphere without any forces acting on it is actually lower than forming into a sphere. So the probability of our universe coming into existance in the exact way that it did may actually be pretty likely. But as I stated before, we can't be sure. So to use the line "there must be a god, because there is something rather than nothing" ( which I know you didn't but people do) is rather silly givin the fact that we just can't know. The begining of the universe could have been anything, but that doesn't prove a god.

      June 29, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
  5. Jack

    CQB,

    Do you believe in unicorns?
    Do you believe in vampires?
    Do you believe in werewolves?
    Do you believe in aliens?

    How is the question "Do you belive in God?" any different? None of these things can be proven NOT to exist. But if you asked me any of those questions I would say no. I personally would never claim, "there is no God.", but I have never seen enough evidence to convince me of the existance of any of the beings listed above.

    June 29, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • clown question bro

      Yes vampires exist.
      Yes werewolves exist.
      Yes Santa Clause exists.

      I swear atheists have an actual fairy-tale fetish...what mommy and daddy ruin it for you?

      June 29, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Thinker22

      Most of us agree that the Universe exist and that it had a beginning known as the Big Bang. This brings us to two possibilities:either the Universe was CREATED by someone having the knowledge and power to create Universes or, alternatively, the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing. Which one of these two possiblitilies seems more plausible to you?

      June 29, 2012 at 1:22 pm |
    • Jack

      Actually the 2 possibilites are:

      1. stuff has always existed
      2. God has always existed and created stuff.

      Both statements assert some "thing" has always existed, whether God or stuff.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • Thinker22

      Jack... The Big Bang turns BOTH your possibilities into IMpossibilities.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Thinker: Science can accurately (within 0.004% range) when the big bang occurred. What they have yet to determine, if it is ever determined in our life times, is what caused the Big Bang. That said, it does not mean you get to plug a 'god' in to the equation. In order to do that you'd have to provide scientifically peer-reviewed facts showing 'god' existed. Most people I know are content to saying they don't know.

      clown: You're either just a troll or a 10 year old child cause no-one can be that stupid.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:38 pm |
    • OTOH

      Jack,

      "Always" is a time-based concept. What if there is more going on outside of our present knowledge of things? Chad has a point with his "outside of time and space" argument for "God"... problem is that Chad takes it as a huge leap to being proof of the "God" of the Judeo-Christian Bible, which is in no way proven.

      We don't know what we don't know.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
    • Thinker22

      TruthPrevails... As I've said there are two possibilities: either the Universe was created by someone knowing how to do it or, alternatively, it came into existence all by itself from nothing... and I'm afraid that your claim about 0.0004% accuracy of the age of the Universe estimation is a bit optimistic.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Thinker22

      You said, "This brings us to two possibilities:either the Universe was CREATED by someone having the knowledge and power to create Universes or, alternatively, the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing. Which one of these two possiblitilies seems more plausible to you?"
      Of course, logically the latter makes much more sense. That doesn't necessarily mean that that is absolutely the only option, just that it is far more likely than any creator.

      The reason is that the problem isn't solved with a creator. It merely shifts the problem from "what created the universe?" to "what created the creator?". The option where the universe formed from nothing is the more likely one as it makes fewer claims for which there is no evidence. It relies on fewer assumptions.

      You can, with equal merit as the "creator assertion", claim that there must be a Magical Blue Sock by the name of Bob from which all universes are born.

      June 29, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
  6. Chad

    He was a healer, a provider of universal health care, a man of compassion who treated those with preexisting medical conditions. We don’t know what Jesus thought about the individual mandate or buying broccoli. But we do know how the New Testament describes him. The Gospels are filled with stories of Jesus physically healing the most vulnerable and despised people in his society.

    Indeed
    It should be noted however that Jesus didn't heal everyone, nor was healing His primary purpose in coming.

    June 29, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Provided you believe the fairy tale is not one.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Oh great one, please enlighten us as to how you came up with this outside of using the buybull. So he was a universal healer but yet that wasn't his primary job and he only chose to heal who he wanted to and thus let others die...right? What were his other jobs? Where is the set of peer reviewed evidence to back what you are claiming??

      June 29, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • hippypoet

      being vulnerable requires healing? since when?

      June 29, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
  7. Doc Vestibule

    For Clown Question
    We keep going around and around with this "you can't prove a negative" argument.
    The great difficulty with the God hypothesis is that there are no falfifiable statements in your assertion.
    There is no logical answer to an emotional argument – and faith is a powerful emotion indeed.
    Give some parameters about your God that can be tested – statements that are falsifiable are the very basis of rationality and the scientific method.

    I am, of course, expecting nothing short of a flat denial of this basic request, possibly with some ad hominems thrown in.

    June 29, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • clown question bro

      Want God proven?

      than you literally deny the very meaning and message of Christianity.

      Talk about denial...

      June 29, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • Thinker22

      As a matter of fact, there is a logical answer to this argument. Almost all of us agree that the world around us EXIST. Almost all of them agree that the world had a beginning commonly referred to as a Big Bang. Some of these people (usually referred to as 'religious') believe that this fact means that the Universe was CREATED by someone having the knowledge and technology to create Universes. Others (usually referred to as 'atheists') believe that the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing.

      Both of these theories are based on FAITH that can not be proven one way or another. It is up to each and every one of us to decide which of these two theories is more plausible.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:40 pm |
    • hippypoet

      its the same thing, one has fact until a certain point then its conjecture...where the other one is a story built around factual events in history – both are just what others have said until proof exists the argument of "in the begining" is pointless.

      this should be a well known and accecpted fact but all but being a believer over a thinker can put a stop to things!

      June 29, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
    • Huebert

      Thinker

      I wouldn't say that the universe came into existence "from nothing". It is more accurate to say that the big bang is the moment in which the universe underwent a transformation from something completely incomprehensible to it's present state. Their may have been something before the universe began but their is no possible way humans would ever be able to describe an pre-universal state of existence.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • derp

      "I am, of course, expecting nothing short of a flat denial of this basic request, possibly with some ad hominems thrown in"

      And you got....

      "Want God proven? than you literally deny the very meaning and message of Christianity"

      Good call my friend.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Thinker22
      Those are ideas about the origin of teh universe, not about God.
      If we postulate a Creator who simply sets up the game, pushes the GO button and walks away, that is a non-starter.
      Many Christians postulate a deity who is anthropocentric, who intervenes directly with the material world (IE: performs miracles) and who demands the obsequious submission of His creations. Some say He becomes downright petulant if He doesn't receive daily thanks and flattery.

      Ever hear of Bo.obquake? A muslim cleric said that earthquakes are divine retribution for women behaving immodestly.
      That is a testable, falsifiable statement. Thousands of women around the world behaved immodestly at a pre-arranged time and then global seismic activity was monitored.
      End result: God apparantly doesn't care much about nudity.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • no one gives a sh it

      what an ass hole Canadian thinks

      June 29, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
    • hippypoet

      consider what happens to a star when it dies...the same can be said of a galaxy and i would say the universe as well...and this then brings up the multiverse theory...and then one could argue that "god" is nothing more then an interstellar inter universal traveller who had to happenstance by some humans at one point.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      What about your god belief / religion is measurable and testable? If there's nothing to measure or test, then it's not something that can be proven. Since your god can't be proven, and his nature is presented as contradictory, there's nothing more to be said. You enjoy a particular philosophy because you were taught it was correct. There's no proof. No proof means the more logical position is disbelief. Atheism is the logical choice.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:49 pm |
    • hippypoet

      arrrgg, moby has it! thar she blows the truth.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:53 pm |
    • Chad

      @Moby Schtick "What about your god belief / religion is measurable and testable? If there's nothing to measure or test, then it's not something that can be proven"

      =>What about Aristotle is measurable and testable? Does he not exist because as a result? Same applies to Jesus.

      =>What about a Ford Mustang is measurable and testable to establish that the Ford Motor Car Company actually created it?
      Same thing goes for the universe.

      You are using tools that arent able (by definition) to detect the attributes in question.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      On Aristotle: Exactly, Chad. Untestable modes of thought are mere philosophy. That's all your christianity is: a philosophy that cannot be tested to determine if its god exists or its way is "correct truth."

      On the Mustang: Exactly, Chad. The existence of a thing does not prove a particular originator. Same deal with the universe. Its existence does not prove a particular originator.

      On disbelief: To determine the existence of a being/thing, the claimant must provide proof to the skeptic. The skeptic holds the more logical position until the claimant proves the existence of that which he claims. Those are the rules of logic. If you want to use feelings and faith for yourself, then that's fine, but you've got nothing to provide the skeptic who is more logical to disbelieve your claim.

      You claim I'm using tools that don't help me in determining the existence of your god. What tools should a skeptic use other than logical reasoning?

      And just so you know, I'm really not interested in your answer, Chad. You've prove time and again that you're not willing to investigate your own belief system honestly and so you just resort to defining your god and your faith outside the realm of human thought–at which point any believer of any idea can use your same tactics with equal effect.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • derp

      "What about a Ford Mustang is measurable and testable to establish that the Ford Motor Car Company actually created it?"

      The fact that you can visit the Ford Flat Rock MI plant and see them building Mustangs would be a fairly testable way of establishing that Ford actually builds Mustangs.

      Are you really that stupid?

      June 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • Chad

      @Moby Schtick "On Aristotle: Exactly, Chad. Untestable modes of thought are mere philosophy."
      @Chad "you miss my point, I wasnt referring to philosophy, but the person.
      Was Aristotle real?
      If you say yes, then what measurement tool did you use to establish that fact?

      =========
      @Moby Schtick "On the Mustang: Exactly, Chad. The existence of a thing does not prove a particular originator. Same deal with the universe. Its existence does not prove a particular originator."
      @Chad "So, you have no method to determine the originator?
      thanks for proving my point 😉

      What "measurable and testable" tool do you use to determine the originator of the Ford Mustang I have in my driveway?

      =========
      @Moby Schtick "You claim I'm using tools that don't help me in determining the existence of your god. What tools should a skeptic use other than logical reasoning?"
      @Chad "I think logical reasoning is an excellant tool to use, you wanted to use a different one, one that was "measurable and testable"
      I'm glad we agree on that.
      ======
      @derp "The fact that you can visit the Ford Flat Rock MI plant and see them building Mustangs would be a fairly testable way of establishing that Ford actually builds Mustangs."
      @Chad "Those are different mustangs than mine, mine is a '67 which is no longer made..
      How can I determine who made it?

      June 29, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @Chad

      There's no testable evidence for Aristotle or Jesus. I don't care if you or anyone believe that Aristotle existed. You care whether other people believe that Jesus existed. Therefore, it is your point to prove.

      Nope. I don't have a method to determine how the universe got here. Neither do you. Since neither of us can prove how the universe got here, it makes much more sense to be honest and say "I don't know how the universe got here." I say that. You don't.

      Logical reasoning says that you are more correct to be skeptical of unproven claims. Atheists are the skeptics to your unproven claims. The way you would prove your claim is to provide measurable, testable data. You can't, so the logic of the skeptic holds. You can't prove your claim in gods or unicorns, so I am using the correct logic to withhold belief in the gods and unicorns that you claim exist.

      You su ck at logic, btw.

      June 29, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @Chad

      You shouldn't need me to tell you that it is amazingly stupid to try to use Aristotle and Jesus as any sort of comparison. Nobody is claiming that what you believe about Aristotle's existence and thoughts has eternal consequence. Besides, even if Jesus was proven to exist, that doesn't make Christianity any more valid or the bible's god any more sensible. Your "tactics" of debate are pathetic, really.

      June 29, 2012 at 6:28 pm |
    • Chad

      @Moby Schtick “There's no testable evidence for Aristotle or Jesus. I don't care if you or anyone believe that Aristotle existed. You care whether other people believe that Jesus existed. Therefore, it is your point to prove.”
      @Chad “ah.. confused. You are saying that Aristotle wasn’t a historical figure then? He wasn’t real?
      What process are you recommending to determine if a person was a real historical figure?

      ===================
      @Moby Schtick “Nope. I don't have a method to determine how the universe got here. Neither do you. Since neither of us can prove how the universe got here, it makes much more sense to be honest and say "I don't know how the universe got here." I say that. You don't.”
      @Chad “actually, it makes much more sense to acknowledge what we do know(not hiding from it as you have done), that the universe had a beginning.
      Now, if we know the universe had a beginning, whatever triggered that beginning had to be definition be outside the universe, since it triggered the creation of the universe.

      ===================
      @Moby Schtick “Logical reasoning says that you are more correct to be skeptical of unproven claims. Atheists are the skeptics to your unproven claims. The way you would prove your claim is to provide measurable, testable data.”
      @Chad “but, you said, that there is no “measureable, testable” evidence for historical figures..
      So, again, what is your test for establishing the veracity of a claim to historical authenticity?”

      ===============
      @Moby Schtick “You shouldn't need me to tell you that it is amazingly stupid to try to use Aristotle and Jesus as any sort of comparison. Nobody is claiming that what you believe about Aristotle's existence and thoughts has eternal consequence.”
      @Chad “ obviously I’m not comparing their lives, I trying to get you to articulate a methodology for establishing the authenticity of a claim to historical reality.
      What you acknowledged is that there is no “measureable, testable”way to establish that Aristotle was a real person.. So, I’m asking, how do you determine if any historical person was real? What methodology are you suggesting?

      June 30, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
  8. Guffaw

    clown question bro
    "Notice how in atheism you think you are so special."

    Maybe the biggest laugh of the day!

    Who, tell me, who thinks that a super-duper, almighty, real smart and fancy Creator of the Universe loves YOU and desperately desires to spend a blissful eternity with YOU, because YOU are so SPECIAL!

    June 29, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
  9. Hmmm

    What are the atheists opinion on that popular atheist blogger who is now Christian? Lol.

    June 29, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • Huebert

      Even smart people can believe sill things.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • Huebert

      *silly

      June 29, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • derp

      She probably now believes in bigfoot, unicorns, and leprechauns too.

      I still don't believe in all four.

      So what?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • clown question bro

      lol!

      atheist leaves cult,cult atheist members not happy,cult atheist members make fun of ex-atheist cult member.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:54 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      clown: Cult? I'm guessing you don't know what a dictionary is or you wouldn't have used that word in description in atheism.
      Cult is defined as a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. Sounds more like theism to me. We don't have a set doctrine we follow-you do; we don't have special rituals that we attend-you do; we don't have special ceremonies specific to our disbelief-you do in regards to your belief.
      We're not mad at her...we're not so shallow. I don't care about what imaginary friend she believes in but I do not comprehend giving up logic and reason for faith. It takes a weak person to do that!

      June 29, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • clown question bro

      I stand corrected.You proved my point.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
    • hippypoet

      hey umm, mr clown – that statment is a contradiction....one is not corrected and proven right, one is correct or proven right.
      sry.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
  10. So Sad

    The comments on here are hilarious. The atheists consider themselves so smart and anyone who disagrees with them must believe in 'fairy tales' and has no commen sense. Quite comical really.

    I guess the psychology is somewhat understandable. You guys get angry because nobody in the real world takes you seriously. You all flock to a belief blog (which is ironic in its own right) in which you claim yourselves to be the only smart/intelligent humans. Oh the irony, too funny.

    The funniest is probably hippypoet who can barely formulate a coherent sentence, yet he considers himself smarter and better than all believers. He quotes himself as if a) his quotes make any sense, and b) anyone puts any significance into mindless drivel from an anonymous person in a comments section. Gotta laugh at the people who mask their ignorance and incompetence under the disguise of intelligence.

    June 29, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • hippypoet

      i care not to type with perfection as i care not for those whom read it....

      consider this – it is illogical to believe in god as the belief itself offers nothing. It goes against even the simpliest of physical laws to have a creature like that of god to existence. Any intelligent person with basic reasoning skills and logically thinking should be able to deduce that god does not exist, and even if it did the purpose of its existence is meaningless after creation unless it is god itself that will be upholding its laws – deduction – god is a pointless creature after creation if exists, but luckily enough for the smarter then you, it doesn't and so have no fear.

      oh god damn that just made perfect sense didn't it! fu-ck sh-it jesus, mother fu-cking mary mother of a lier...please get a mind of your own.

      🙂

      oh and so sry you can't understand my words.... i may have needed a comma and didn't add one – i don't care for proper grammer, it is a waste of time and my thoughts are too fast to take the time for that.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • translation of hippy poets words

      I am an ass hole don't bother me.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • clown question bro

      Lol! Hippy claims to be smart but cannot spell?!

      June 29, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • hippypoet

      i never said i can't spell... i chose not to. if it is truly that important to you, when do you spell check my work. 🙂

      June 29, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • clown question bro

      But you claim to be smart.

      Fail man.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:22 pm |
    • hippypoet

      so you are saying that making a conscience choice to not do something is a fail?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
    • clown question bro

      Smart people can spell properly.You can't so you can't claim to be smart.Contradiction on your part.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • Eats Shoots and Leaves

      hippypoet,

      Sometimes punctuation and proper grammar do matter.

      Is it:
      - He eats shoots and leaves? - He munches various greens?
      - He eats shoots, and leaves? - He munches green sprouts and then departs?
      - He eats, shoots, and leaves? - He dines, fires a gun, and then departs?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
    • Huebert

      "Smart people can spell properly.You can't so you can't claim to be smart.Contradiction on your part."

      Logic fail.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • hippypoet

      lol, perhaps i simply just don't take my time and type on the fly and i am also not the best on the keyboard...i prefer pencil and paper myself.

      but your right, i am not as smart as perhaps you think i think am...and how does that effect you, i mean if what you BELIEVE is true...or not?

      you do alot of believing and acting before thinking and rationalizing....that is not a good quality. might want to word on that.
      🙂 helpful advise from your nieghbor hippypoet.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • hippypoet

      lol sry, work on that. 🙂

      June 29, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • derp

      "The atheists consider themselves so smart and anyone who disagrees with them must believe in 'fairy tales' and has no commen sense"

      Well, if you look at it objectively, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the god myth and traditional fairy tales.

      God = Santa Claus

      God, lives in heaven, Santa in a magic compound on the north pole.

      God has talking snakes, Santa has flying reindeer.

      God sees you all the time, and if you are good you get to receive eternal life in heaven.

      Santa sees you all the time, and if you are good you get lots of great presents.

      When you are a kid, you learn about and believe in god.

      When you are a kid, you learn about and believe in Santa Claus.

      The only difference between the two fairy tales is that at some point somebody tells you that Santa isn't real.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • clown question bro

      its "sorry" not "sry" really man stop claiming to be smart.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @SoSad

      We're trying to help cure you of your brain virus that makes you think stupid things are smart and smart things are stupid. But, like the drug addict, all you guys can normally do is talk about how wonderful the god drug makes you feel, and so you refuse to consider how unreasonable your belief really is. See my comment above to Doc Vestibule to test how willing you are to follow proper logic over the stupid emotion of religious faith.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • Eats Shoots and Leaves

      hippypoet,

      In general, what one writes reflects one's thought processes. Sloppy, disorganized writing can be the result of and hints at sloppy, disorganized thinking.

      It's fairly casual on these forums, so there's a very wide lati'tude, but you really detract from your message with your carelessness.

      Hey, I'm on your side...

      June 29, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
    • hippypoet

      carelessness...thank you....at least someone sees it. i am detatched. my thougthts and how i choose to express them are built into a time schedule of nothing, no need to stress over spelling,grammer, word usage...or insults... they are all tools one has and so few truly use correctly. i hit at a grand scale of points and i find when i do this i get only misspellings and grammer corrections from others... no real respones. makes one wonder.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
  11. hippypoet

    for once in your pointless lives – think for yourselves!

    quote by, the hippypoet. 🙂

    June 29, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • truth be told

      you first

      June 29, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • clown question bro

      You first bro.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • hippypoet

      wow... how very whitty of you... i already do, and am a better person for it. i have no need of a shepard as i am no sheep.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • truth be told

      good because it would be a shepherd you would need. Moron.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • clown question bro

      woah! he/she boasts with it!

      contradiction to atheism because of what they claim religion says LOL!

      June 29, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • i hope

      dawkins isn't doing your spelling for you as well. If the spelling is yours you may want to rethink the thinking for yourself thingy.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • hippypoet

      so sry i missed spelled something....also i am happy at your ability to respond to the point of the post and not something meaningless comparably....shallow are the sheep, that reflects the shepHard.

      you may need a new one since this one is not a very good teacher.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • translation of hippy poets words

      I am still an ass hole but my mom loves me

      June 29, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • hippypoet

      lol. good one. i think i hit a nerve. was it the nail thru the left or right arm that did it?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:09 pm |
    • poet

      That can't spell !!!! Moron. You didn't hit any nerves except your own. What a phony joke.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • hippypoet

      nerves....lol, no....emotions are pointless. one should strive to grow beyond them... its rare that one gets to me.. one thing is nearly always true however, most believers are extremely emotional towards others claiming that god isn't real and you also feel its ok to claim your god is real....emotions...evil things.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:52 pm |
  12. junior

    "Our culture has filled our heads but emptied our hearts, stuffed our wallets but starved our wonder. It has fed our thirst for facts but not for meaning or mystery. It produces "nice" people, not heroes."
    — Peter Kreeft

    June 29, 2012 at 11:41 am |
  13. junior

    “Love follows knowledge.”
    St. Thomas Aquinas

    This is definitely the litmus test.

    June 29, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • hippypoet

      knowledge is not found in notions of grandeur.
      wisdom is not found in acting like another.
      be your own person and follow yourself.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • junior

      I do think for myself.
      Some people just have a better way of putting in words what I think. Take the Psalms for instance, I could never assemble the proper words to formulate King David's repentance in Psalm 51. It is beautiful, take the time to read if you like.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • BRC

      @Junior,
      I have read psalms, all of them. The vast majority are painfully insipit, and basically boild down to this-

      "Oh great mighty awesome wonderful super fantastic god,
      I, your humble quiet little very unworthy follower, ask a favor of you
      those mean icky bad false unbelieving people said/did mean things to me
      smite them please,
      then I shall sings songs and write stories, and make food, and kill animals, and have children to tell all how incredibly great you are"

      June 29, 2012 at 12:09 pm |
    • junior

      Then you didn't read the book of Psalms correctly.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:32 pm |
    • BRC

      @junior,
      I'll bite, what did I miss?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • junior

      That we desire more than what is on earth, We desire more than what we can register.

      St. Augustine said "You have made us for yourself, Lord, and
      our hearts are restless until they rest in you,"

      June 29, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • BRC

      @junior,
      perhaps some desire that, but it doesn't make it real, or believable.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:36 pm |
  14. junior

    The existence of a prime mover- nothing can move itself; there must be a first mover. The first mover is called God.”
    ― Thomas Aquinas

    June 29, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • Huebert

      What moved god?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • hippypoet

      that is an @ssertion and opinion based on nothing but someone elses warped mind.

      a first mover, sure... i can go with that idea, but not god – a god is a creature that never dies and rules over something....if this was its world of which it rules over, i think it is not a top notch god.....or perhaps not a god at all.

      maybe, just maybe it was a simple physics reaction – friction. just because a smart person says there was nothing at one point – does that make it so and that is afterall what your entire argument is based from...the idea of before things – there was nothing and then things and so there must be a god – prime mover – more @ssertions lacking proof...this is called conjecture and its idle. do something that matters. do it for mankind, not god....if god is god then god needs no glorification.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • junior

      What then pray tell is/was the FIRST MOVER?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • Huebert

      I don't know who the first mover was. That does not mean that it is god, that is the god of the gaps argument, also known as a plea to ignorance.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • junior

      The first mover is not a "who", it IS

      June 29, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • Huebert

      Do you realize that the prime mover argument leads to infinite regression? Unless you abandon the premise that "nothing can move itself".

      June 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
  15. junior

    “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
    St. Thomas Aquinas

    June 29, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Huebert

      "To one without faith, no explanation is possible."

      And that is how you know that the entire thing is bunk.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • hippypoet

      thats a grand quote – because it is a quote from a person from history do you think that makes it any less sad that people believe purely on an idea of somethings existence?

      here is a quote – prove it. the hippypoet 🙂

      according to the laws and stories in the book of pointless words – aka the bible – it clearly states the punishment for doing things against the will of "god".....i do these things all day everyday and yet i still stand, walk, and talk just fine.....something unheard of in the biblical days – but then again, since it was a story written by men one can see without any effort that to make a story seem real one needs to show an act from the creator as punishment that is so grand one would never wrong the creator after reading it...its all a form of control breed on the very real fact that people need leaders because the average person is a moron....hence why belief is the majority, because stupidity is the norm.....go read a different book.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • junior

      We reap what we sow. Also in the Holy Bible.

      We shall see when it is time for harvest.

      Text: Matthew 13:24-30 & 36-43

      24 He set another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while men were sleeping his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. 26 But when the stalks of wheat sprouted and produced grain, then the weeds also appeared. 27 Then after the slaves of the master of the house came, they said to him, “Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Then where have the weeds come from?” 28 So he said to them, “An enemy has done this.” Therefore the slaves said to him, “Then, do you wish that we go and pick them?” 29 But he said, “No, lest while you are picking the weeds, you uproot the wheat together with them. 30 Permit them both to grow together until the harvest; and when it is the time of harvest I will tell the harvesters, ‘First gather up the weeds and tie them into bundles to burn them up, and then gather the wheat into my barn.’

      June 29, 2012 at 11:29 am |
  16. clown question bro

    Ever notice how atheists quickly avoid to prove there is no God? They say it without backing it up with evidence yet its still a claim.They cowardly hide behind the "its a negative I cant" but we are only talking about one God here not any other religion.

    everything applies to just the "Theist" but never ever themselves.How sad.

    June 29, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • Huebert

      Go troll somewhere else bro.

      June 29, 2012 at 10:29 am |
    • clown question bro

      Afraid to confront the truth?

      June 29, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • BRC

      @clown,
      If you only want us to address your "one God" the god of the Christian religion, and disprove its existence, I'll be happy to try, is that what you're asking for?

      June 29, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • clown question bro

      Yep since atheists demand no other evidence from any other religion.

      Kinda evident what that says about atheists.

      June 29, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • BRC

      @clown,
      Let's start with "I call troll". We ask for evidence from any religion, none of you have provided it. Since the majority of the people on this blog who are believers are Christian, that's who we argue with the most, but I am equally happy to ask a Hindu to prove that Shiva exists (which they also can't, even though their gods are a good deal older than yours).

      But, I'm all for discussion, even with a troll, so I will discuss the Christian "God". For starters, the book used to define him defines him as a contradiciton. Since a contradication can't exist, the "God" described in the book doesn't. Second, the book says that if you prey, earnestly, then "God" will answer it. It does not say that all of society has to belive before "God" will answer prayers, it says it's a one for one; and everyday people in desperate need of help, who are truly good and devout people (I don't need to give specific names, law of averages garuantees it), pray for things that just don't happen. So either the book is wrong, or he's not there. Either way, the Christian "God" does not exists.

      This post is getting long, want to respond to these before I give you more?

      June 29, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Huebert

      You have no truth to tell, nor do you have any intention to do anything other than try to insight my anger. You won't change your mind, you won't admit defeat, and you won't say anything you haven't said before. Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how well I play you will just cr@p all over the board and strut around looking victorious.

      June 29, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • BRC

      sorry, should have read pray, not prey.

      June 29, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • clown question bro

      We admit we have done.You do not accept.

      You on the other hand WON'T admit you can't prove your side at all.

      strike a nerve did I?

      June 29, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • LinCA

      @clown question bro

      You said, "Yep since atheists demand no other evidence from any other religion."
      All gods are pretty much equally unlikely. Your god is just as much a figment as Ra, or Mithra, or Thor, or Allah, or any of the thousands of others. The Tooth Fairy and Tinker Bell are just as likely to exist as your god. The Loch Ness Monster, Santa Claus and the Abominable Snowman, on the other hand are far more likely to be real than any god.

      Now, don't get me wrong, I couldn't fucking care less what you believe. You are free to believe in fairy tales. You are free to live your life according to your fairy tales. Go right ahead. Stupidity and gullibility aren't illegal. If, on the other hand you want to convince me that your god is real, you'll have to bring a little bit more. Without any evidence in support of the existence of your god, I relegate it's story to it's rightful place in the garbage can.

      So no, you are not required to prove that your god exists, just as I don't have to believe the complete and utterly ridiculous claim that it does.

      June 29, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • clown question bro

      You want the evidence correct? Than it is YOUR duty now to find it since you want it.That's how it works.You can't cry and whine to get others to do it.You want it you find it.

      Search for yourself or is an atheist to high above everyone to do that?

      June 29, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Huebert

      You couldn't strike a point, much less a nerve. I know and am very comfortable with the fact that I can't prove my side. Can you say the same?

      June 29, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • BRC

      @clown,
      Many of have looked for evidence, the lack of any to be found was rather telling, so we're asking for collaboration from those who claim to have found it. Or does Jesus not say you should share?

      Moreover, are you planning on adressing my points?

      June 29, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • clown question bro

      No I dont want to believe what I'm saying alone.No I want you to question everything and decide for yourself.

      its not that hard.Why do you get others to decide for yourself but you dont let your own self decide?

      Afterall its your life...If being an atheist is something you considered and know to be the correct life for you go ahead.

      Wanna talk about fairy-tales? You live in your own fairy-tale.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      OH, and one more thing while we wait. It is not our job to look for evidence. IF "God" wants to be worshipped, it is his job to provide the evidence, and prove that he is worth worshipping. I'd say in the last 2000 years he's done a pretty poor job.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • sam

      Why is anyone even bothering to try and argue with this douche? All he does is bait.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Huebert

      @sam

      Personally, It's because I get bored at work. I have a customer service job so I post in between customers.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • hippypoet

      everything applies to all but only matters to some and to those are whom we speak to when asking for proof...see, we atheists have no need to prove a lack of anything...besides, its not our lives that is based on a story its yours and i personally just find it rather sad to think one forms their life around a notion of grandeur that is completing lacking ANY evidence...now thats sad! if there was any evidence at all to even just make it look even a tad real then maybe i can see someone doing that but to just go on nothing but a story – not even a new one – its just a showing of the shallowness of man to need answers and not care where they came from nor to seek truth for themselves after being presented with the idea of its falseness.

      afterall, if i believed in anything with that much hold over me i think if asked to prove its existence and i couldn't i may have doubts....but thats an intelligent human speaking, not you. You, well, all you need is a story.....i have one for you, ever heard of the 7 dwarves? who is to say thats not true...got proof? need any? YES! and no, no proof and so with logic on my side i can successfully deduce that the STORY of the 7 dwarves is just that – a story.

      moron.

      🙂

      June 29, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • clown question bro

      Boast like a child all you want,still doesnt prove you are correct.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • LinCA

      @clown question bro

      You said, "No I want you to question everything and decide for yourself."
      Guess what? Most atheists on this comment board did. That's exactly why they are atheists. By asking a few simple questions, and answering them with an open mind, will do that for you (if you have the ability).

      You said, "its not that hard.Why do you get others to decide for yourself but you dont let your own self decide?"
      I know it isn't hard. I did it well before I was an adult. Nothing that I learned since has made me doubt that conclusion, and in fact, made it more obvious that it was correct.

      I realize that atheism isn't for everyone. It can be pretty scary to think that when you die, it's all over. It may be much easier on yourself by maintaining the lie. The one thing that religion does pretty well is keep the sheeple from getting stuck on questions that may never be answered. If you are someone for whom having an answer, any answer, is more important than having the correct answer, religion is the thing for you.

      You said, "Wanna talk about fairy-tales? You live in your own fairy-tale."
      Please elaborate (that means "please tell me more", or "please explain"). How is not believing in unsupported stories, "living in a fairy tale"?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      I haven't boasted at all, I've given you clear points and asked for your response, you haven't provided any.

      YOUR "God" is false, because he is built as a contradiction (which can't exist), and because the Bible's claim of the power of prayer has been proven false. DO you have any logical response to that?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Huebert

      @clown

      I know I cant prove that I'm correct. Now would you like to make a point, or are you afraid to define your position?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • clown question bro

      Prove to the entire world you are correct and everyone else is wrong.The floor is yours.You say its stupid and dumb to believe without evidence so lets see YOUR evidence?

      come on tough guys.You leave everything to somebody else.You arent kings and queens..

      why must you try and convince yourself if you dont wish to believe?

      its a sick childish game thats why,You have no control thus you become violent with anger and rage.If somebody says "prove there is no God" you try to rationalize it not face it.

      prove to the world with your evidence.Go ahead.

      If you cant yes faith is something you have.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      Apparently you just didn't read my reasoning before, so I will repost- this is why I don't believe in the Christian "God"-

      For starters, the book used to define him defines him as a contradiciton. Since a contradication can't exist, the "God" described in the book doesn't. Second, the book says that if you prey, earnestly, then "God" will answer it. It does not say that all of society has to belive before "God" will answer prayers, it says it's a one for one; and everyday people in desperate need of help, who are truly good and devout people (I don't need to give specific names, law of averages garuantees it), pray for things that just don't happen. So either the book is wrong, or he's not there. Either way, the Christian "God" does not exists.

      And one new one Bible has, in many places, been scientifally proved to be innaccurate (at teh very least an extreme exageration). If the book describing "God's" rules for the universe (physics), doesn't accurately describe those rules (makes claims proven impossible), then it is wrong, and the Christian "God" does not exist.

      Intelligent critical reponse?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • clown question bro

      Its YOUR opinion and you may have it.But opnions isn't proof.Sorry pal.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • Huebert

      @Clown (Good name by the way)

      Since their is no evidence we don't believe. Produce evidence and we, well I at least, will believe you, and no I won't find your evidence for you.

      Now will you answer my question? Are you comfortable beveling a position that has no evidence?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • clown question bro

      I have my own reasons.I cant prove those reasons to anybody.Call it a delusion and whatever else but I don't care.

      Am I right? Am I wrong? I may not know fully but I'm still searching.Learning.Understanding.

      So no I do not care what some hateful atheist thinks.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      I didn't give you opinions, I give you logical deductions. There is a mountain of difference. An opinion is "the "god" of the bible is a jealous egocentric tyrannical child, who built an antfarm and demands the ants say thank you". That is an opinion, what I gave you are facts, the are the derivatives of the words in the bible compared to the exisiting condition of the observable world around us.

      So, either you PROVE that the book says something else, or PROVE that the world around us actually matches up to what the book says, or the evidence says I'm right, and there is no Christian "God". I recommend setting aside emotion for this exercise, it gets in the way of anlytical thought.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • clown question bro

      Notice how in atheism you think you are so special.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • Huebert

      If you don't care what "hateful atheist" think why do you come on to this board and try to incite an argument with atheist?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • hippypoet

      i come here to have intelligent conversations but find i am constantly let down....i have the power to discern truth from fiction and i do it often enough to be rather great at....some here should get practicing.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      Nice attempt at a diversion. I do not think I am special, I see several people responding to this post alone who have followed the same (or similar) simple thought process. It does not make us special. We are apparently in the minority of people who have taken the time to do this simple math,l but we are certainly not the only ones capable of it. That's what bothers me the most, knowing how many people are perfectly capable of seeing through all this but choose not to.

      No, since I've answered your spurious accusation, are you planning on addressing my points?

      June 29, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • clown question bro

      Why you ask? Why do you come to troll just Christians? In fact why do you come to religious articles? as shown its not to "debate" but its for an entire different reason.

      You want every non-atheist to be your personal slave doing everything you say without you lifting a finger.

      if its wrong to view humans as the center of everything...you contradict that.

      June 29, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Clown is just the latest in a long line of clowns that does not understand logic or the scientific method, and who when pushed hard for the evidence believers claim to have, never produces anything of substance, only to run off squealing "bad atheist, bad atheist,..." rather than concluding that their house of cards (paper gods!) is crumbling. I totally understand why Richard Dawkins now refuses to debate believers – it is impossible to do so given that they only keep repeating their delusions.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • Huebert

      Clown

      Why do I come to religious articles, right now it's because I'm having fun. And please remember it is you who started this thread with a trolling comment. I know that I should stop responding but I'm having to much fun. Though I'm curious where did I say I wanted slaves?

      Now that I have done you the courtesy of answering your questions will you answer mine. Why do you come to this blog and try to instigate an argument?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • clown question bro

      If questioning atheists is considered "trolling" you also have committed an act of "trolling".

      and I didnt resort to name calling.many atheists here have already done that.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • BRC

      @Clown or as I might start calling you, Smeagle,
      You should know, that I will always respond (if I see it and have time). I lack the willl power to supress my urge to provide an answer to someone with a quesiton, so if your hoping to get me to rage quit it's not going to happen.

      Now, as to your most recent reply-

      I asked because I want to know the facts of what you believe, and because YOU asked first. You asked for specific prrof, I gave it, refute it or I'm technically right. That is the essence of debate.

      Your point about slaves isn't worth adressing, but I will for its irony points. Religion makes you a slave, atheists would see everyone free of those bonds of faith. So you're wrong.

      "if its wrong to view humans as the center of everything...you contradict that." You're going to have to put this one in english before I can answer it.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:16 pm |
    • Huebert

      Clown

      Why do you refuse to answer questions asked of you?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:21 pm |
    • hippypoet

      to throw out name calling as a higher standing type poistion over the low atheist....well, what if i said that if its true then its not insult but rather a statment of ones character traits and perhaps in some cases acutally help the person as they didn't see this truth...call it a gift of truth when i call you believers of ancient stories as truth – as words of god – morons...some need to know what they are to first understand themselves and then and only then can they grow as human beings. at this point they would understand thru gained knowledge that god is one of two things as fact – either he exists and is pointless after creation or doesn't exist. in either case, there is no reason to believe but rather seek to know. knowledge is power..... now where did i hear that before? oh yeah, school house rock. lets see, that was when i was 6 and at that point i started on my journey...why haven't you. why do you do believe things over knowing if what you believe is true or not.

      test – you believe that your partner is cheating....what do you do...do you act as you believe purely on the belief and breakup or do you find out the truth?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:25 pm |
    • clown question bro

      I'm a slave? A slave to what exactly?

      You think since you are "smart" and follow science,it deems you more worthy to unlock the answers but nobody has it and since nobody can answer that,that's when the stage of "I'm right" for an atheist kicks in.

      Nobody has unlocked anything.So follow your own advice.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      In my opinion organized religion corrupts free and reasoned thought. Binding your life to a faith because a book says so feels opressive to me. If you associate with a religion, but break from it when you disagree with it, then you are a slave to nothing, don't worry abotu it. But if you allow a religion's dogma to control your life... got another name for it?

      Reality check, if you believed that you had a vision of Jesus that appeared and told you to do something you would NEVER do of your own accord, would you do it?

      June 29, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • clown question bro

      I said I have my own reasons and none follow what you stated.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • clown question bro

      If Jesus came to me in a vision? Depends.Because based on the bible God cannot tempt anyone to sin.that is why that answer depends on what is asked.

      Try harder.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      Try harder at what? You answered my question. You said it would depend on the task. THat shows taht you would be willing ot think for yourself, and if you didn't agree with what you were being asked, not do it. that shows and internal moral compass, and that you are not a slave to your faith. I'm good with that. Don't know how your religion would look at it, but it works for me.

      And of course "God" wouldn't lead you to sin, if "God" tells you to do it it can't be a sin, he's the one making up the rules. But that doesn't change teh fact that the bible says he's told people to kill, even those who most would not agree deserved death, so just because he wouldn't ask you to sin, doesn't mean he wouldn't ask you to do something that as a person you shouldn't be okay with.

      June 29, 2012 at 12:58 pm |
    • clown question bro

      If God is as evil as atheists claim than he wouldnt ever send warnings.With the flood didnt Noah warn others? The people mocked him.With the city that was destroyed how many times did God send warnings? With the followers of Moses how many times did God warn them? Most atheists ignore it and go after the violent act.

      if God is as murderous and unloving as atheists claim..There is no point to Jesus.Not even a single thing.

      Even the "innocent" have chosen to kill.You want God to be molded into what YOU see fit.Besides...That was a totally different time period which was for Jews.Since Christians aren't technically Jews we no longer need to follow the laws that they followed such as stonning a gay person or putting a child to death for disobeying their parents.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:07 pm |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      Obviously "God" didn't make particularly effective warnings, so you're saying he's not evil, he's impotent? And the fact that one religion says "God's" rules that their predecessor were founded on no longer applies to them is all good and well, but that would be making the argument that "God" changed his mind, all knowing eternal beings don't do that.

      Atheists don't think "god" is evil, we don't think gods are anything at all, we don't believe they exists. Many of us believe that the "God" described in the bible is cruel and vindictive. There are many passages that back us up. You can interpret them different ways if you like, but you can't make them suddenly not be there.

      June 29, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • clown question bro

      You only say that because that's what you are taught.This "all powerful God" MUST follow what we think those words mean.

      than again..you try and recreate a different version of God to fit your "moral" system just like thousands of religions have.Time and time again.The OT shows the history...Christianity is about what Christ has done.

      Life and death plays in a huge part in the history of living things.It is natural so don't try to pretend it doesn't happen.

      You can't change it now pal.You think with 21st century thinking..yet can't tell the difference between 2 time periods.

      Even towards the end of the OT God himself hints things which most atheists skip over..and yes its very important.

      What made God change his mind? I do not know.I am not God so I can never know.Maybe atheists skip love..I mean God loves us right? you view that as stupid and wrong but most atheists think they actually are special because of "logic".

      You also skip over many parts of the OT.

      June 29, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @clown question

      "Ever notice how atheists quickly avoid to prove there is no God?"

      Prove there are no ghosts, vampires, werewolves.
      You know what, prove that Odin isn't real, or Ra, Anubs, Isis, Thor, Hela, Zeus, Hermes, Hera, etc. etc

      You should really start striving to learn how the burden of proof works, because you quite obviousely have no idea at all.

      June 29, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      There was a lot of random in there. I'm not trying ot create a new "God", I don't believe in any "Gods", I'm saying our species has matured, and we know now that the behavior accepted in the Bible is unnacceptable, but "God" was not only okay with it, but at times encouraged it. That means he was at one point wrong, which is impossible if he is eternal and omniscient, and instead suggests that humans of the time made it all up.

      What parts of the OT am I skipping?

      June 29, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • clown question bro

      You are taught what is right and wrong from birth.

      Exactly how is that thinking for yourself?

      June 29, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • BRC

      @Clown,
      We are taught from birth what our parents believe to be right and wrong. We take that and create or own moral code. I do not believe exactly the same things my parents do.did about right and wrong. That is how it is thinking for myself.

      June 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
  17. Jack

    Hello, everyone is invited to visit ... thestarofkaduri.com

    June 29, 2012 at 10:15 am |
  18. hippypoet

    there were many so called messiahs at that time in history – in fact allthroughout history there have been messiah after messiah yet still the same mess and no grand exit with fire and brimstione! Little known fact (if you believe of course) the J man already rose and left...you that believe and are still here believing are wasting your time. You can find this to be true in your bibles. I believe it was on the third day after his death, a sunday if i'm not mistaken. According to the apocryphal gospel of nicodemus, he (jesus) went to the place where people went when they died and freed all who was worthy then brought them to the place of his "father" thereby creating by default a place where the worthy go, "heaven" , and where the not so worthy go, the other place , "hell"...the original underword which if you study the MYTHS of the time you come to an uncanny conclusion. All belief systems of this time period have a place where people go but not a good or bad place, just a place...some have a place where REALLY bad go but most just have the underworld type set-up as the afterlife myth. The early folks built their MYTH onto this – they rather piggy-backed it if you will. It is a form of appealing to the m@sses while telling them a different story and creating a new foundation for something else – in this case heaven and hell. It was only after "coming back" did people really start to believe in him – i mean other then the 12...and did you also know that it wasn't for a VERY long time after his death that people started believing....its called the time it takes for the "gullibility factor" to set in. For those who value truth over myths check out zoroastrianism for the first true good vs bad combo as equals in the struggle for control over the world. Everything else before was both good and bad all in one and then many of them – a pantheon of powers to go along with a pantheon of mythical creations of creation. But again, you who believe in the daddy-o of jesus as the only god call this belief pagan and mythical ...aka not real...here is a quote i'm sure has been on these blogs many times and will be again...

    “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
    stephen roberts

    food for thought.

    quote from me – Until you have tangible evidence for the existence of god, the notion of god remains in the realm of ideas.
    the hippypoet

    June 29, 2012 at 9:57 am |
  19. Jack

    Just a thought for thiests:

    You continue to use the classic "You can not prove God does NOT exist" argument. How many times has a scared child been told "there's no such thing as monsters."? It would be hypochritical of you to say so. Technically you should say "I've never seen a monster, but I can't prove they DON'T exist. Sweet dreams."

    June 29, 2012 at 9:01 am |
  20. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things,

    June 29, 2012 at 6:03 am |
    • Mirosal

      Your very existence proves you wrong.

      June 29, 2012 at 7:27 am |
    • great intellect my ass

      The very presence proves Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things to be right. Mensa my ass.

      June 29, 2012 at 7:38 am |
    • Mirosal

      "gods" are so easily defeated. Simply stop believing in them, and they fade into obscurity and mythology. Just ask Zeus, Odin, and Ra. In time your "god" will join them. Unlike you, I don't have a need to change my name for every post. I have nothing to hide. You claim to be a "christian", but you are so quick to throw out the insults. Is that what your "holy text" teaches you?
      From a simply logical point of view, prayer cannot work or change anything, and this is according to your own christian doctrine.

      June 29, 2012 at 7:48 am |
    • J.R.

      The conservative Christian voting block is against healthcare reform. How is that healthy for children?

      June 29, 2012 at 8:49 am |
    • Bo

      Mirosal, I'm always curious where statements like, “...,prayer cannot work or change things, and this is according to your own doctrine.”
      I can't get into a dialogue with you right now, because I don't have the time, but I would like to know the source of your statement: Book (name of the book in the Bible),chapter and verse(s) I always follow the rule: “line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little...” Isa 28:10 I believe every doctrine [teaching] should have two or more verses to support it.

      June 29, 2012 at 9:04 am |
    • truth be told

      @mirosal
      God is eternal and will never fade away, false gods disappear as will you but God remains forever without beginning or end.

      June 29, 2012 at 9:31 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      June 29, 2012 at 10:17 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.