July 10th, 2012
10:00 PM ET
Episcopal Church approves same-sex blessing service
By Michael Pearson, CNN
(CNN) - Episcopal priests will be allowed to conduct services blessing same-sex relationships under a policy approved Tuesday at the church's national convention in Indianapolis.
The convention's House of Bishops approved the provisional policy 111-41 with three abstentions Monday, clearing it for consideration by the House of Deputies, which approved it Tuesday evening.
The policy was approved in the House of Deputies, following more than an hour of debate, by 78% of the voting lay members and by 76% of clergy.
With the vote, the Episcopal Church will become the largest U.S. denomination to officially sanction same-sex relationships. The Episcopal Church has about 1.95 million members in the United States, down 16% over the last decade, according to the church.
The service is not considered a marriage ceremony, media affairs representative Nancy Davidge said.FULL STORY
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
marriage is a legal device, not a religious one.
get married in a church with church approval but without a gov't issued marriage license = not legally married
get married in a courthouse without church approval but with a gov't issued marriage license = legally married
you can add ritual and ceremony to a marriage, but it's not necessary. marriage is a legally binding contract between two people. why should it matter if they are male and female, male and male or female and female?
God defined marriage. Not man.
Your delusional god is a loner. Til your god produces a wife then we can talk.
God defined marriage. Not man.
LOL!!! This comments section never disappoints, better than any sitcom on tv. Ah.....no. Marriage is an invention of the human mind, 100%. Just like religion.
Madtown, only folks who refuse to accept responsibility for their thoughts, words, actions respond the way you do. It doesn't take thought to live a careless life.
It doesn't take thought to live a careless life.
Since when you do concern yourself with thought? Next time you offer up something honestly thoughtful here, will be the first. That's the problem with empty-heads like you, the inability to think for yourself.
Madtown, just because you accept perversion in your life, doesn't mean others have or ever will. That's the difference between living a righteous life vs dying from an unrighteous one.
I will make sure Jesus's truth is kept
Matthew 5:30 And if thy penis offends thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy member should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Phony heavensent, that mouth sure needs the soap.
The Scriptures were written approximately 2000 or more years ago when there was no knowledge of constitutional homosexuality. The Scripture writers believed that all people were naturally heterosexual so that they viewed homosexuality activity as unnatural. Women today are pointing out that the inferiority of women expressed in the scriptures was a product of culture and the times in which the Bible was written; it should not be followed today, now that we are beginning to appreciate the natural and God-given equality of men and women.
Similarly, as we know that homosexuality is just as natural and God-given as heterosexuality, we realize that the Biblical injunctions against homosexuality were conditioned by the attitudes and beliefs about this form of sexual expression which were held by people without benefit of centuries of scientific knowledge and understanding.
It is unfair of us to expect or impose a twentieth century mentality and understanding about equality of genders, races and sexual orientations on the Biblical writers. We must be able to distinguish the eternal truths the Bible is meant to convey from the cultural forms and attitudes expressed there.
but the bible is the literal utterance of the almighty, don'tcha know?
We can't start interpreting it, or we'd end up with heresies like a 4.5 billion year old earth and humans evolving from pre-historic primates.
Atheists got no proof to back up their own beliefs.
"Atheists got no proof to back up their own beliefs."
wrong. that's all we go by - proof. show us evidence. religion offers none. zero.
Jeannine, God had the spiritually strongest souls come into this world, born of woman to live in female form. Do you understand that God knew the reason for this decision? That's why His truth tells women to be helpers of men. Oh, missed that one, did you? It is the women's job to raise the children. Not an easy task. It is the woman's responsibility to ensure her husband stay focused on Jesus' truth throughout his life. Again, not an easy task. I can go on and on how the difficult task were given to women, but, listen to all the women's libbers out there trampling over and on His truth that they misconstrued. All souls go back to God, who created all. All souls are no longer in physical form and that is why Jesus calls all of us, His sons.
disbelief requires no proof
go back to the dark ages and take your misogynistic views with you.
Bootyfunk, I'd ask you for your logic on that post, but, I know not to.
Based on the following should we really care:
Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals, gay "hangups" and atonement theology,
You're describing man blinded by the sins of the flesh. These human weaknesses own their own downfall. Jesus' truth stands for eternity.
JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?
It saddens me to hear that you and that professor are stuck in carnal mode. Wasted lives.
"It is not the order of things. There is no complementarity in a male entering another males orifice from which waste is discharged. That is a disordered attraction. This is not right. It doesn't bring about the promise of life. In fact it is not healthy."
Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.
Recent studies of children raised by same sx parents have differed otherwise, you can fall behind false advertising but at the end of the day you have to face the truth. It is not healthy. Love the sinner, don't celebrate the sin.
You talking about Mark Regnerus's "study"? If so I'm going to laugh so hard.
What's not healthy? Can you prove that gay s3x is injurious to anyone outside the consenting adults who engage in it?
"Face the truth" says junior. You and HS are big on that word. How is it you don't ever post any?
If you open your mind then maybe truth could enter.
Awww come on junior, don't ignore me. What study are you talking about?
It is not genetic. Using a more representative sample from the Australian Twin Registry,matching for hmsxl orientation between each pair of identical male twins fell to a mere 3 out of 27 pairs (11.1 percent). a fact that failed, of course, to capture any media attention and is often left out of the textbook treatments of the subject. In 2010, an impressive and much larger study utilizing the Swedish Twin Registry produced almost identical results: Among the 71 pairs of identical male twins of whom at least one twin was gy, in only seven cases (9.8 percent) was the second twin also gy, yet another statistically insignificant result.
that sounds about right. The consensus estimate is that 10% of the population is gay. What do you think that proves/disproves?
To me it gives credence to the idea that hom0s-xuality occurs naturally.
Genetics is not the end-all and be-all, junior. There is no 'gay gene'. But there are likely a number of combinations of biologic causes for hom0s3xuality.
What does that have to do with your original assertion about children raised my same-se.x couples?
Man made lies versus Jesus' truth. Man can't save your soul. That's Jesus' job. Follow these liars and appease man and God rejects you just the same. None of these professionals are going to be standing next to you on judgment day. You alone are accountable for your thoughts, words, actions.
Then it's none of your business, HS, what these couples do or what these churches do. Don't approve? Don't attend. Don't like gay marriage? Don't be gay. After all, you think you can choose.
"If you open your mind then maybe truth could enter"
Jesus Christ said it's the matter of HEART! When darkness is in one's heart, they refuse to see the truth. Then God turns them over to reprobate mind and they actually BELIEVE a lie!
Tommie Tom, people choose to live a gay life. It took years to admit they are gay. We can now wait years for admitting it is a choice.
It is not the order of things. There is no complementarity in a male entering another males orifice from which waste is discharged. That is a disordered attraction. This is not right. It doesn't bring about the promise of life. In fact it is not healthy.
Most an.al s3x is between hetero couples; therefore, the "eww yucky" argument is stupid.
Not healthy for whom? For those that engage in it? So what? What harm does it do to anyone who willingly engages in it?
The "promise of life"? So couples who don't want children or who can't have them are somehow causing harm by having s3x? Is it wrong for them to have s3x? How about those who are older, past child-bearing age?
"It is not the order of things." Apparently, it is. It occurs in many species and I doubt very much they're being influenced by the evil media empire and temptation.
"It is not right." How do you know that? What's so wrong about it? Why is it such a huge deal to you? Why do you care so much more about this than you do about genocide, starvation, poverty?
Simply put: these religious dolts do not have any partners.
They are denied the pleasures because of their insecurity. Wanting it for themselves and are rejected because they're fvcking idiots.
Sister taught her about "complimentarity". That's all she's got.
no one is asking you to enlist in the gay brotherhood.
Live and let live, ... much as you would like people to stop attacking the Catholic faith.
Your rants still do not make it right. So if you want to behave like a stray or naughty bunny, then you do not understand humanity and what is essential for life.
Oh and by the way, I did intend to spell complementarity. A new word probably to you.
Your rants don't make it wrong. And you didn't answer. Why are you so bent out of shape about gay s3x? What's so terrible about it? What does it harm? And why are you spending more time braying your opinions about it as you are concerning yourself with the poor, the hungry, the homeless, and the sick?
*than you are
Hey, you 'cultured', 'intellectual' q'ueers sure do know how to sling those obscenities! And you think you should be allowed to have children to raise?! ....making them to be twice the children of hell then you are... If that's not crime, then what is?!!!
Believe it or not, hmsxlty was wrong long before I opined about it. In fact it did not have to wait for my existence, for the development of the internet, and for this particular little blog for me to finally adjudicate an abomination of disordered behavior. Put 50 men on an island, return in 50 years and let's see what the population will be. I love science because it complements the laws of God.
What does population ro procreation have to do with gay rights?
Which laws of God? What about the other examples of couples I described? Do they go against the "laws of God" because they can't or don't wish to procreate?
As HG said, procreation is not a requirement for other, straight marriage. Neither is the ability to procreate, nor the intention to procreate. Why should it be a requirement for any gay marriage?
Tommie Tom, what part of God's telling us that h-o-mo-s3x-uality is an abomination do you not comprehend? Man can shove His holy rules under the rug all they want. When we die, our spirits go back to God, who created ALL. He will judge us, not man.
Oh, shove HS. You lie about anything and everything. I don't believe you regardless of your holy roller quotes.
Heaven Sent: " what part of God's telling us that h-o-mo-s3x-uality is an abomination do you not comprehend?"
What part of ***there is not a shred of verified evidence that the Bible is the words of any god*** do you not comprehend?
What part of, this isn't a theocracy don't you understand? What part of, you don't have the right to impose your religion on anyone else don't you understand?
I don't believe that it's wrong for two people who love each other to commit themselves to a relationship within the church. Obviously, the Episcopal Church agrees. The fundies who are so sure they know everything the Bible says and what it means are expressing an opinion about it, nothing more. Why should their opinions hold sway? Their are Biblical scholars in the Episcopal Church, too. They're almost certainly better educated than HS or junior.
I'd far rather attend a church that accepts and loves people, regardless of their orientation, than one that rejects and despises them.
I really don't give a sh!t if some fundy bozo "knows" the Bible. They don't really "know" anything. They just believe.
HS never attends a church service. Why should you care what goes on in one?
*there are more...
Tommie Tom, OTOH and hawaiiguest, Jesus already told us that most folks are on the wide path to destruction (Matthew 7:13). Nothing new about that fact (Ecclesiastes 1:9). The Episcopal Church is not abiding in Jesus' truth. (2 Peter 3:1-4, 2 Timothy 3:5-7, Matthew 7:13-23, Matthew 24:24-25, Colossians 2:8, etc.)
Tommie, Tom, you own your refusal of accepting what Christians have taught you on this blog about Jesus' truth. Christians support our country of it's Christian foundation.
As for lying Tommie, Tom. You own the lies you spew, no one else. As for my handle being hijacked to write nonsense and perversion. Again, the thief that steals the handles owns their actions.
hawaiiguest, lack of church attendance never prevented me from learning, comprehending and applying Jesus' truth to my life (2 Thessalonians 2:13-17, 2 Timothy 2:15, etc.) Church is community, where like minded folks gather to learn and abide in Jesus' truth. If my church or any church that I attended taught Jesus' truth book by book, scripture by scripture then had a Q&A session after the sermons, I'd be in attendance. Since, this was never offered, I read, comprehend and abide in Jesus' truth daily through His teachings taught in the Bible. (2 Thessalonians 2:13-17, 2 Timothy 2:15, etc.)
Our country was founded on Jesus Christ's principals no matter how much you refuse to accept this fact and your lack of responsibility towards it's support.
OTOH, you would see proof of Jesus' truth in His written word, if you read, comprehended what you read, and applied it to your life. Since you refuse to read the Bible, you own your lack of understanding Jesus' truth.
It doesn't surprise me that you are trying to get the last word on a thread that is nearly 24 hours since last posted.
This country was not founded on jesus' principles. It was mainly founded on ancient greek principles...so you should worship Zeus
Most of the fore-fathers beliefs were so different from what you consider christian that there is nearly no resemblance to your current religion.
Go quote your 2000 year old blog elsewhere. or better yet, why don't youo read them so you can understand what they really say.
Who invited me? Ignorance, while lying about this countries foundation will never make your lies, truth.
Typed too fast, was suppose to be this country's.
Haveyou read the diaries and correspondance of the fore-fathers...I have
Have you read the histories of a hundreds countries origins...I have
Have you studied the cultures and understood the reasons they decided to take action, to grant religious freedoms...I have
To give religious freedom to the people is AGAINST the catholic and christian teachings of the day...they went against the rules that religion was forcing on them
Time for you to study some history and stop spreading your lies
"Your soul depends on the choice you make with the free will He gave to all of us."
Being gay is not a choice, science in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.
All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.
Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.
In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.
The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.
On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"
Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"
But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.
This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.
The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.
Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).
Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.
Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.
Is homosexuality a sin?
Self-indulgence is a sin. But the relationship of two people of the same sex may or may not be self-indulgent.
Abusing the neighbor is a sin. But the exploration of relationships among homosexuals as they search for partners, evaluate their existing formative relationships, and relate to each other may or may not be abusive.
Disobeying what God commands in the Bible is a sin. But, we have biblically-derived criteria for assessing and applying specific commands by reading them against larger themes.
Turning your back on God is a sin. Homosexuals are often among those who have turned their back on the church, and may be sinning because they also rejected the God they found in church. The church needs to be in mission to homosexuals with the message of Jesus and who God really is.
Yielding to your passions, even celebrating them is a sin. Homosexuals do include those who have done this. But it is not an inherent aspect of being gay.
Since we see people who have dedicated themselves to God, and for whom their gay sexual life is integrated into that decision and we see that their sexuality does not draw them away from church we must conclude that being and living gay is not a behavior in and of itself that produces pain to the neighbor and leads one away from God.
By the criteria the scripture sets for us for what is godly life, and by the reasoning scripture asks us to employ, homosexuality cannot be described as against God’s law.
If this seems like a rather quiet sort of justification for homosexuality, then perhaps it is because the grand clichés of this debate have been shouted at us for too long. But look at the Bible: it's demands and vision cut across all categories, not staying on the surface but penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart, rejecting all forms of self-justification, all forms of attack on the "other" and all forms of escape from God's assessment of our behavior. How on earth could we have ever thought that a series of flat rules was all God wanted to tell us on morality?
now to you evangelical,.. get in line or else
maybe there is hope for Christians yet
"don't tell! Keep you twisted s ex life to yourself and if you prance you're gone!"
The experts have proven you wrong. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
gay drama has no place on the battlefield! Don't ask, don't tell! Keep you twisted s ex life to yourself and if you prance you're gone!
Yeah right. Go say that in front of the hundreds of marines in the gay bars every night in Ocean Beach, you pu'ssy. What a frickin ignorant coward.
Yeah right. Go say that in front of the hundreds of marines in the g'ay bars every night in Ocean Beach, you pu'ssy. What a frickin ignorant coward.
Yeah right. Go try saying that in front of the hundreds of marines in the g'ay bars every night in Ocean Beach, you pu'ssy. What a frickin ignorant coward.
Look at pics of China's armed forces, Russia's arm forces, even Iran's terrorist armed forces, then think of what Obama is making our armed forces, fairies with the pants hiked up their crack, plucked eyebrows, and workin it instead of marching stern faced. Would you be scarred or laughing your guts out? Wake up people, Putin, Assad, Almadenijad, etc. think our military is a joke! Obama is making it a joke! This is who will be fighting for your atheist lives! Do you want barbie or rambo??? You scream for equal rights, but can a army of men in tights protect this country??? Worried that they man is looking at GI Joe instead of worrying about the emeny on the other end of the nuke??? Where are real men anymore!!!
Definitely not sitting in front of your keyboard.
And those fairies would kick the stuffing out of keyboard bigots like you
You are a retard.
"Scarred"? Houseplant/L/Clown, put forth a little effort.
I didn't post this "logical Tom".
Got a quarter? Call someone who cares.
"Houseplant"? You really do act like a child.
You aren't logical.You lied.
Nah.You can lie all you want but your screwed up fantasy won't be feed tho.
Stick stirer. I expect your prayers are all we need anyway... wont need an army... Prayer works so well ask the starving African child how happy he was to see Jesus .. You will not have to worry about a gay folks sounds like your head is up there anyway.
This one goes out to all you fundamentalist Christians out there. Selah! I may be too narrow addressing this to just the fundamentalists. Many traditional Christians also fit the bill. Really, it’s anyone who believes that homosexuality is a sin, and that somehow God, infinite and eternal creator and sustainer of the very Universe, is ‘against’ a tiny human behavior that harms no one. So, in other words, uneducated and ridiculous people everywhere.
Officially, the majority of Christian churches say that homosexual behavior is a sin, thus proving that the theologians behind those churches don’t understand their own Bible. There are a whole bunch of goofball laws written down in the Old Testament that everyone ignores. Why is being bigoted toward homosexuals the one people latch onto?
The various Christian brands go through the Old Testament, picking and choosing the parts they consider cool. No one accepts the whole thing. No one. I mean, when was the last time a cheating spouse was actually put to death in keeping with the commandments of the Bible?
Using the Old Testament to determine if something is a sin is simply a matter of human and not godly opinion. It’s meaningless and certainly not ‘the word of God’. His teachings aren’t some basket of fruit for you to pick over. You either have to accept the old law in its entirety and start killing lots and lots of people or reject it in its entirety. Hand-picking the stuff you like is bogus, especially when you only pick the stuff that seems to legitimize your meanness to other people.
So the Old Testament is out.
Before we all start playing REM’s “Losing My Religion,” consider this denying someone the right to marry is not Christian, and certainly not American.
The people who are opposed to gay marriage, and by extension, gayness itself have no excuse. They are bigots and bigots alone. They can’t use their special book to justify their hate, even according to the special book itself. They have no one to thank but themselves. They take the Lord’s name in vain and feel righteous about it
Yes, they take the Lord’s name in vain. Most people believe incorrectly that this commandment is about cussing, but it’s not. It’s about using God for yourself, for your own vain (personal) ends. They hold the Bible in the air and use it like a bitch to bolster their own prejudices and bigotry and hate and that is vanity, all is vanity.
The teachings of Christ are plain enough: love and forgiveness, tolerance and healing, acceptance and rebellion. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing more needed. Add what you will to it, it still won’t be from the Christ. It will come from your own (black?) heart.
Jesus Christ is the origin of the word ‘Christian’. Perhaps we should pray about that a bit more.
Today’s Christians tend to be followers, accepting of the notion that religion is just a box built by someone else into which they must stuff their spirit. They are naive and willingly line up like lemmings wherever told. They have a casual ignorance that tells them the Beast will come in the obvious guise of science or secularism or liberality. They cannot conceive of the Father of Lies actually lying to them.
Sinclair Lewis said that when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying the cross. When the Beast comes to the world, you can bet your sweet ass he will be thumping the Bible and preaching a hate disguised as love..
The OT was the history of the Jews..Christians aren't Jews.
Your rhetoric does not make something that is morally and naturally wrong a right. Put 50 men on an island, come back in 50 yrs and see how the population grew. We all know what the result is. That is a fact.
What does procreation have to do with gay rights?
Wow. Did you get hoodwinked going after whatever degree you ended up with. First, the OT describes God and what He wants for His children and that He promises to send us a Messiah. The NT is the history of Jesus ... God sending Himself to earth, walking in the flesh (e.g. walking the walk, not just talking the talk) to die for our sins (sins = to defeat death which is satan). Both OT and NT are God's love story with us, so that we can read, comprehend and abide in what He wants from us. All those that refuse God/Jesus will not spend eternity with Him. Why would God want rebellious souls around Him? If you were conned into believing Jesus was just a fairy tale by sheep herders, think again and take His truth seriously. Your soul depends on the choice you make with the free will He gave to all of us.
L, Jews are Christians and that is the only truth that everyone that loves and follows him practice.
Until you can actually provide reason why the bible should be taken as an authority, it has no pull to anyone who already dosn't agree with you.
L, do you know how many tribes of Israel there are? Jews are only one tribe.
HawaiiGuest, don't be foolish to think I believe you don't know what's going on with God/Jesus today. Keep your circular arguments to yourself. Christians are not on this blog to debate with you. We have better things to do. We are on this site to ensure Jesus' truth is posted.
Your rhetoric does not make something that is morally and naturally wrong a right.
LOL!!!!!!!!! If it's "naturally wrong", then how come it occurs naturally?! More comedy from the cognitively diluted.
I'm talking about the religion..
It is wrong because there is no complementarity. A male's member does not complement another male's rectm. The Lord did not create our bodies to join this way. A man and a woman, you get the idea, I hope, your parents had to so that you could be here reading this.
So what? Do you think intercourse is all this is about? Who cares? What's the big deal? Where's the harm?
"Your rhetoric does not make something that is morally and naturally wrong a right. Put 50 men on an island, come back in 50 yrs and see how the population grew. We all know what the result is. That is a fact"
Put 50 hetero couples on the same island. Come back fifty years later and there will be the exact same number of gays as has existed within a given population since the dawn of mankind.
You make being stupid look easy.
The Lord did not create our bodies to join this way.
How would you know? You know the intent of God? The thought process of God? Arrogant buffoon.
Oh there is harm all right.
"It is wrong because there is no complementarity. A male's member does not complement another male's rectm. The Lord did not create our bodies to join this way. "
The experts disagree with you and have proven being gay is totally normal. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
"Oh there is harm all right."
You understand straight couples have the same kind of sex right, you can't be that stupid.
Then, junior, explain what harm is done.
junior, why is procreation a factor in this discussion? Do you think that if you allow gay marriages that more people will somehow "become gay" and cause a decrease in population because you mistakenly believe that gays cannot have children?
junior, there's no harm if you use enough lube. Try more lube next time.
Alpa, you crack me up. I love your screen name.
In other words "dissenting opinions need to be quiet". Got it.
If you can spot a circular argument that I have, please, point it out, unless of course there isn't one and your just spouting out random assertions again.
Same se'x behaviors are seen in all of nature. You can't call it "unnatural" anymore.
hawaiiguest, if you were a newbie on this blog seriously asking me that question. I'd take the time to answer you. Since you are not a newbie and only want to be OB Noxious. Feel free.
Strange, I didn't even ask a question. I was merely summarizing your post, and pointing out your continued use of rfaulty assertions.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, I'll tell you His truth about the marital bed. You not believing His truth makes no difference. I will tell you anyway. God only sanctions the marital bed of a man and a woman that come together as one living a righteous life as He instructed. All others having s3xual relations outside of marriage ... is viewed by everyone in Heaven. Names are being thrown out of the Book of Life. That is why h-omo-s3x-ual relationships as well as free for all s3x by anyone without the sanctioned marital vows ... are sinful and their souls are in the gravest of danger. The only way for salvation is as usual, ask Jesus for forgiveness, ask that you get closer to Him (which means to read the Bible to know what is expected of you) ... then sin no more. God knows what is in everyone's heart ... so if someone lusting after the flesh keeps repeating what God asked them not to do ... all the praying and asking for forgiveness is most likely falling on deaf ears.
HS, you're the boy who cried "wolf". You've repeatedly lied about anything and everything. You're just lying some more. You don't have any idea what is true.
hawaiiguest, I've been posting on this site for over a year and 1/2 now. I do believe I've read every opposite side of the Christians truth that could be posted. I also am aware that atheists and other non-believers believe Jesus is a fairy tale, assuming they thought this up on their own. Needless to say, debating is all they want to do. I'm not on this site to debate. I'm on this site to ensure Jesus' truth is posted ... around the perverted post of the phony heavensent going nuts with my handle.
junior..you are a member of one of the most male orientated cults next to the Muslims.. your leaders run around in dresses, gowns, kiss hands and rings of each other, love gold. and big pointy phallic hats.. also dislike women and do not want them around.. . So you think this is normal adult behavior...?
Now that's not the Tommie Tom I've gotten to know over the years. She doesn't go off like a rocket any more. She's learned some patience phony tommie tom. NG phony.
You must be having memory problems. I haven't been here for "years".
Actually it is assumption and not truth HeavenSent. You assume and have faith in the writings of men. It is not truth, rather your perception of what you "believe" to be true. Otherwise, you are no different than someone who is confined in a straight jacket and has a different perception of the world around them. Only difference between an insane person locked up and a superst i t ious religo nuts is you guys are free to wlak around. Enjoy your perception but you lie when you claim something to be absolute truth...if you were being a true christian and not lying..you would start with it is my opinion or I believe this to be true. BUTTTTT you are a dishonest insane old lady with a broken mind
You can't expect anything but preaching to the choir and drawing ire like that. Coming just to post what you think and ignore the thoughts of others shows contempt to all those who don't think like you. It also flies in the face of 1 Peter 3:15.
HeavenSent lacks the Holy Spirit...just has accusations to spew in the name of her God
It doesn't take only a Christian to spot a false witness. HeavenSent is clearly a false witness and also a seriously disturbed women.
Judaism comes from the Sumerian Religion, I'm not sugar coating Jesus for you. It's because of itching ears for those that want to hear the feel good messages is why you deny the truth about Jesus that I posted. You can stay spoiled and pampered all you want by listening to the false preacher's teach you man's lies and never get into the real truth of Jesus. Your choice you want to waste.
HS – there were 12 tribes of Israel, based on the 12 sons of Jacob. Look it up.
Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Asher, Naftali, Reuben, Simeon, Gad, Joseph, Levi and Benjamin. (or, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Asher, Naftali, Reuben, Simeon, Gad, Benjamin, Ephraim and Mnasseh, the last two being the sons of Joseph, replacing Joseph and supplanting Levi).
And Jews are not Christians. I live in one of the jewish enclaves in NYC (I am not jewish) and if you spouted that anywhere in public outside my home you'd get an earful.
Its funny how atheists are so desperate to disprove something that they claim is not in their lives but hang around religious articles?
I see many names(screen names) posted under one atheist troll.
No logic here 🙂
The smiley face totally sells my point and makes me really, really right.
So logical of you.
you raise a fair point. I think it is largely a reaction to living in a culture dominated by religiousity. Many feel the need to justify their reasoning and a (mostly) 'free speech' forum is the opportunity to do so.
Einstein said: "The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer." and there is much truth in this observation. Everyone is free to follow their own beliefs.
That said, your bait and bite approach makes you indisguishable from those you mock.
L....well its because you are trying to prove some thing thats not in yours...
Murdering infants is moral so long as you're just trying to persuade your master to free your people.
really people have you even seen a more sad, rediculous, joke of a sight than a gay day parade? MEN in tutus, with pink hair and a priss marilyn monroe couldn't mimic, holding hand and prancing around like faries on meth? Have some self respect people, please!
"MEN in tutus, with pink hair and a priss marilyn monroe couldn't mimic, holding hand and prancing around like faries on meth? Have some self respect people, please!"
My favorite is a bunch of drunk people wearing wigs of color, painting their bodies, waving towels and finger puppets while screaming at a bunch of guys running around with a pig skin ball. Now that's ridiculous.
that's the GAME of football, not the ARMY that protects your freedom. I'll rather the football team face Iran than soldier with plucked eyebrows.
How many of these parades have you watched? Sounds like you are fascinated.
Sounds like the Kenites (who live among us) are doing a great job convincing folks to go against Jesus' truth.
HS, when are you going to get that information to gays? You claimed they were lied to for a reason. What's the reason?
Tom, I will not be the one posting the reason for their lies. Figure it out. If you were gay, wouldn't you want to hear what you want to hear instead of what you refuse to hear?
No. I want to hear what they lied about and why. If you're truthful, you'll post it. If not, every person reading your responses will see you for precisely what you are.
Siirer ...sounds like a catholic bishop convention.
Pi = 3
No, that would make it rational.
Old Testament rules are to be followed, unless they are inconvenient for a True Christian, in which case they must be read in context and summarily ignored.
Jesus told us He didn't come to destroy the laws, but, to enhance them.
Shellish are an abomination. Except when they're not. Never call anything god makes an abomination!
Shellfish are scavengers, like the other scavengers God lists that clean the earth. Eating scavengers is a sin against your body because it can/will eventually make you ill. It's not a sin against God. He made these scavengers for cleaning the earth and ocean wastes.
Read your bible, HS. Your god made shellfish ok to eat in Acts. He changed his mind. Peter had a 'vision'
Don't you xtians know your own book?
Fundie Xtian Logic, as I stated, it's not a sin against Jesus, it's a shame that we act foolishly going against His wisdom to do something that can or will make us sick as instructed.