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July 10th, 2012
10:00 PM ET
Episcopal Church approves same-sex blessing serviceBy Michael Pearson, CNN (CNN) - Episcopal priests will be allowed to conduct services blessing same-sex relationships under a policy approved Tuesday at the church's national convention in Indianapolis. The convention's House of Bishops approved the provisional policy 111-41 with three abstentions Monday, clearing it for consideration by the House of Deputies, which approved it Tuesday evening. The policy was approved in the House of Deputies, following more than an hour of debate, by 78% of the voting lay members and by 76% of clergy. With the vote, the Episcopal Church will become the largest U.S. denomination to officially sanction same-sex relationships. The Episcopal Church has about 1.95 million members in the United States, down 16% over the last decade, according to the church. The service is not considered a marriage ceremony, media affairs representative Nancy Davidge said. FULL STORY
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"how can you bless a sin?"
Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.
Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.
There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.
Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.
Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?
Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).
That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.
Your post is too long and boring. I know palintwit wouldn't bother to read it.
Just ask Jerry Falwell or any other fundamentalist cult member. They know the path to salvation...
how can you bless a sin? its a contradiction. Next lets start blessing adulterers, Liars. Murderers.
Evangelical churches have a long tradition of blessing adulterers.
Man can bless anything and Satan approves...
Now ask what God thinks of that then that's another story lol.
Sin is a made up standard that no one can live up to . Everyone sins according to the defintion...the very idea of "sin" as if it has to do with morality is something against the morality of religion or society.
CHristianity itself is a sin if you get down to it.
S e x has nothing to do with morality, just religions think it does.
@Whoinvitedme???
"Sin is a made up standard that no one can live up to . Everyone sins according to the defintion...the very idea of "sin" as if it has to do with morality is something against the morality of religion or society.
CHristianity itself is a sin if you get down to it.
S e x has nothing to do with morality, just religions think it does."
Wrong... you are speaking from human's subjective minds not from God's objective Truth. Scientifically and biologically this can be shown that there is something wrong with this. If it were healthy, we'd be made to do this... we aren't. Sin is something we all deal with, like death. Doesn't mean you stop trying to fight against it. If that were the case, look at health... why try? We are all going to die anyway right? We can't beat death so let's all just die... it's illogical to a being with the will to live. Likewise, a Christian has a new nature given by Christ to live righteous. Doesn't mean we are perfect, means we will strive for it. No matter how many times we fall, we are going to get up and run again.
The same way you can bless a marriage while wearing mixed fiber clothing. Every religion can and does decide what is a sin. And every other religion will disagree. As it has always been and as it always will be....
Pardon me, but I think I just ran over your dogma with my karma.....
Being born gay is no more a sin, wrong, or immoral, than being born left-handed or black.
This is just one more thing, in a long list of things, that your god, er, your nomadic, scientifically ignorant, bronze-age shepherds, got completely wrong.
Knight of Nothing
Of course I am speaking as a human, not from the "Gods objective Truth"...since man made up god, and thats the truth, of course I am not going to speak of it.
There is nothing morally wrong with 2 people feeling the way they do....making them feel like they are dirty because of the way they feel is wrong ( and christian)
Christianity itself is the least moral of any of the religions, the very basis that you allow someone else to take your just punishment is a sin in and of itself.
@MarkinFL,
yet somehow they all still think they have a monopoly on truth!
It is patently absurd.
SOC: Apparently, your ethics are so messed up that you would equate what two CONSENTING adults do with murder.
@Primewonk
To say they are 'born' that way is taking the easy way out. I guess drunks, addicts, etc are born that way too. Ask any ex-g@y.
It can bechanged.
It is a choice.
"Wrong... you are speaking from human's subjective minds not from God's objective Truth"
You are also speaking from man's subjective mind. You will merely claim you don't.
Beware of those who capitalize "truth"
SoldierOfConscience
You are comparing being gay to being a drug addict?
When did you choose to be straight....if it is a choice, how do you know soomeone won't convince you to be gay?
Your thinking is moronic, and by the way
as a soldier I am offended that you have chosen a name that disgraces soldiers everywhere, and you are no ones conscience, each of us have our own. Change your name!!!
@SoldierOfConscience,
" I guess drunks, addicts, etc are born that way too."
1) There is a genetic predisposition to addiction, so yes, some of them are.
2) Other than "because the bible says it's bad", how is being gay in ANY way comparible to being an alcoholic or a drug addict?
"Ask any ex-gay". Yeah, they are all over the place. Hah. Most of those that publicly announce their newfound "straightness" seem to end up with the same old partners eventually.
Besides, there is one glaring issue in the argument. Bi-s.exual orientation is not that unusual and such a person CAN choose to swing one way or the other. Think how many people that have been married and had children because of repressing their true nature or because they had a dual nature eventually come out.
However, just as a straight person cannot suddenly choose be GLBT neither can anyone else choose not to be. Of course many could perform the physical acts under enough pressure, but it would not change who they are or who they love/like.
"Wrong... you are speaking from human's subjective minds not from God's objective Truth. "
LOL but the source from where you derive your "truth" from is directly from the subjective minds of humans. Your comments make no sense.
Heavensent--ready to stone and hate every day. Nice xian there.
Hypatia, take responsibility that it is you that chose to live an unrighteous life and embrace others that do as well as you hate and are bigoted towards Christians that chose to live righteously.
HS
Preaching from your high horse again. It is christians like you that make all christians look bad.
I think I can explain this, based off HS' comments, he is not speaking from a high horse. He is speaking biblical truth. The world would condone this behavior because they see the church conforming to their views. However, this is not the true Church because the True doesn't conform to sin. I, too, left the church for ten years before returning. I spent my time trying to reconcile my own doubts I had for a time. I had doubts due to Christians, not about God. So I studied the bible on my own, along with other religions at the time. I learned there is Truth the American churches are afraid to preach and so they become lukewarm. This issue for example is laid out black and white in the Word of God as a sin. A church condoning this is not a church of God but of Satan. No hate toward hom os exuals but this is my belief in God. What most people need to realize you can love a person but hate what they do.
It is the religious right that is trying to force others to live differently. They are the offenders. The hate comes from their attempts to restrict the civil rights of millions of our fellow citizens. I hold them in equal contempt with the racial bigots. The difference is immeasurable.
@MarkinFL,
I suspect you mean 'negligible' and not 'immeasurable'.
Knight of Nothing
It is impossible to speak biblical truth. Men made up the bible...that is the truth.
@Knight of God,
if this is your 'belief in God' you are welcome to it. Please keep it to yourself. Why do you seek to proselytize so?
Why is it so important that everyone also think like you? Live and let live.
Probably, but it was meant to imply the incredibly small difference, beyond possibility to measure as they are essentially identical as baseless bigotry = baseless bigotry.
KnotOfGod: Those words are of man, not god.
"Hypatia, take responsibility that it is you that chose to live an unrighteous life and embrace others that do as well as you hate and are bigoted towards Christians that chose to live righteously."
Gosh, HS, your persection complex is oveflowing today.
You have no idea of how we live.
As far as Christians living "righteously", I got no problem with them
I do however, have a problem with blowhard bigots like you using the bible to justify your bigotry.
This issue for example is laid out black and white in the Word of God as a sin
------
All this means is that the human beings who represent the ideals of christianity believe h0m0s@xuality to be a sin, it doesn't mean God does. God didn't write the bible, man did. If God truly believed that h0m0s@xuality was wrong, doesn't make any sense at all that he'd continue to make people that way!
@ Heaven sent
U R needed in Saudi Arabia or any Islamic nation ...
you are better sent where the Word of the Lord is not heard at all ....
no what I mean??? 🙂 🙂 🙂
The United Staters allows people to have different opinions which is so great ... but your opinions here are mostly ignored... where as for certain most all Saudi's and Muslims even for trying to be right still..... will be right there with all the people whom you have comdemed here... know what I mean?
so There is a vast field there in those nations and few takers.... Y don't U
Ge Ye therefore ! 🙂
Know what I mean ? 🙂
why Can't they, Christians know it's easy to chose the unrighteous path, that's why so many are headed for destruction. Don't worry about being lonely as you travel that same path.
I will make sure Jesus's truth is kept
Matthew 5:30 And if thy penis offends thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy member should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. .
HS, just because an ancient text says something does not mean it is true. What makes the other ancient writings false, and only yours is correct? Even the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has just as much proof as your ancient text. Do you have any original thoughts of your own, or just from your holy book?
Religion: Well, OF COURSE it is that HS's god is the "correct" one....
couldn't answer my question eh ?
Thats' alright...I just wonder why you spend so much time on Gays and such like... know what i mean?
I mean you're all over this thread like as if it's going to help somebody.. if that were the case shouldn't you spend more time on teh 1.4 billion Muslims in the world???? and no.... no way does my Penis offend me... 🙂
It still works ...
"It is not genetic."
All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.
The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.
On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"
The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.
Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).
There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.
Our family recently joined the Episcopal Church and found a wonderful community of people free of the judgements and harshness of Catholicism. I applaud this decision as yet another sign of the Episcopal Church's acceptance of people as they are.
Why would I want a church that accepts me as I am and stops there? I aspire to be more than I am.
Reba, thats like a drug addict wanting a support group that encourages his habit. A good church corrects your failings, so that your soul will eventually get to heaven
The problem is that every church has a different opinion of what it takes to get to Heaven.
Bill and Soldier, that is what YOU expect and want from a church. We live in the U.S.A. where all beliefs can flourish. If some people do not believe in your hellfire and damnation system of belief then that is there choice and you are welcome to believe that they will be joining me in hell. Frankly, I'd rather share the pit with an Episcopal than a Catholic any day of the eternity.
Of course we will ALL be in hell since every single person on the planet acts in a way that millions upon millions of others believe will send them straight to hell. Which one is right? Just ask a believer and they can tell you the TRUTH.
I can't see many other churches doing this to be honest.
Maybe not immediately, but in order to remain relevent, some will. Others will fight it tooth and nail
I think most will just passively ignore it, some (few I imagine) will follow suit, and a fairly vocal large minority will, as you say, fight it tooth and nail.
It's their business though. They're private organizations and it's up to them. I don't really understand why a gay couple would want their marriage religiously blessed anyway.
Nor I
@Rational Libertarian,
I think it comes from people being unable to seperate their faith from their church. I know lots of Catholics (my wife for instance) who were raised Catholic and consider themselves Catholic, but dissagree with A LOT of what teh Church leadership is pushing. I ask why they stay Catholic, and the say because it's what I believe in. And it's not. They believe in Jesus, they believe in "God", and teh believe that in the end there is someone looking out for them, which is all fine, I don't disagree with people having faith, but that faith has NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church. I can walk them through the thought process, and they understand it, but for some reason the religion has been ingraned in them so much that they aren't able to identify it seperately from their faith. Could be pretty much the same thing for Gay coupels who were raised in a specific church.
BRC
That would be my understanding of the situation as well, but it still doesn't make much sense to me.
@Rational Libertarian,
Agreed, but if we start trying to list everything about following these religions that doesn't make sense Reality is going to tell us our posts are too long.
True.
My first reaction.......pi$$ off, we don't need your blessing!
I will make sure Jesus's truth is kept.
Matthew 5:30 And if thy penis offends thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy member should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.
marriage is a legal device, not a religious one.
get married in a church with church approval but without a gov't issued marriage license = not legally married
get married in a courthouse without church approval but with a gov't issued marriage license = legally married
you can add ritual and ceremony to a marriage, but it's not necessary. marriage is a legally binding contract between two people. religious groups need to stop shoving their belief system on a legal binding.
@Bootyfunk
*Like* !!!
Peace...
Yes! Good one, Bootyfunk!
@Peace2All
You should visit more often.
Episcopal's condoning sin there is a suprise!
Da fuq that mean, Mr holier than thou?
Do you support stoning disobedient children? If not, you're condoning sin, you hypocrite!
A self-righteous Christian claims they are better than someone else. There's a surprise!
Jim, you should be picketing your local Red Lobster restaurant. After all, eating shellfish is as much an abomination as being gay. Eating bacon is also an abomination.
All laws given to the jews in the old testament to set them apart from the heathen nations around them. Not Christian laws. You should all learn a little Christian doctrine before you open your ignorant mouths again.
I think Jim is an ignorant mouth with bad breath.
Jim: Sin? Didn't you just do that by judging? Hypocrite! We do understand christard doctrine and we will open our mouth's when we see bigotry and hate being spewed in the name of your belief. Btw: Be sure to check those pants you put on today...they best not be made of two different materials.
Wow you are retarded.
Judging Is Believing.
Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? (Luke 12:57)
What is right?
The statutes of the Lord are right (Psalm 19:8).
Amen.
Tallulah, eating shellfish is NOT a sin against the Lord. Shellfish, as other scavengers, were made by the Lord to clean the earth and/or seas. Eating a scavenger is detrimental (you could call this sin) against the flesh ... because it can or will make you sick.
Jim: What? I'm not the one justifying hate and bigotry using a 2000 year old book idiot. You're not a good christard. People like you are dangerous to society! I don't have an imaginary friend to justify hating anyone and if you think you have the right to hate based on a book that has never been updated and has stories that have been largely proven to be inaccurate, then it is you who is classified as having the mental health issue. Only children and schizophrenics have imaginary friends...given that you're not a child, you then fall in to the other category...I'm sure the local asylum has a nicely padded room they'd be willing to let you stay in.
"TruthPrevails", your handle is carrying wrong 'banner' ! You are a mockery to yourself!
@HS: "
"Leviticus 11:9-12 ESV
These you may eat, of all that are in the waters. Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat. But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you. You shall regard them as detestable; you shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses. Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is detestable to you."
"Leviticus 11:1-47 ESV
And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, These are the living things that you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth. Whatever parts the hoof and is cloven-footed and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat. Nevertheless, among those that chew the cud or part the hoof, you shall not eat these: The camel, because it chews the cud but does not part the hoof, is unclean to you. And the rock badger, because it chews the cud but does not part the hoof, is unclean to you."
i would say both of these passages make eating shellfish a sin along with any animal that isn't hooved.
"All laws given to the jews in the old testament to set them apart from the heathen nations around them. Not Christian laws. You should all learn a little Christian doctrine before you open your ignorant mouths again."
Saying one part of the bible is false and the part you adhere to is true is extremely ignorant. Pot meet kettle.
Jim, your problem is that your very own Jesus said, several times in the NT, that all the rules and laws of the OT remain in play until heaven and earth pass away. Is the earth still here?
Nope!: Well your handle speaks volumes for you. What is the issue you seem to have with someone who believes that using belief to justify hate and bigotry makes the belief fail miserably? The fact you christards fail to comprehend or care about equal rights for all does not make me wrong. I'm not the one basing life off of outdated info. If you people stopped for two seconds, you might understand that it doesn't matter how much you continue to spread the hate and bigotry, you're not going to stop the course of progression for people who are gay, so you might as well shut the hell up and learn to deal with it.
Jim,
You should try reading the part of your bible where your savior says that he didn't come to replace the old laws. And the apostles still followed the laws after jesus died.
Retard. Try reading your bible sometime.
A xtian cherry-picking the bible to support his own bigotry. There's a surprise.
Judgment of people should be left to God but judgment of behavior is certainly common place even in a no-religious context. Our behaviors are legislated in every corner of the earth and punishment is rendered when deemed to be in violation of such ordinances.
Within organized religions, there are moral codes for expected behavior which was established to help believers live their life with dignity to the natural law as well as the Laws of their creator if that's what they believe. A violation of those expectations is certainly up for judgment. This vote appears to be in clear violation of both natural law and moral conduct as set forth in scripture and church traditions.
Judgement when used to condemn and criticize is not appropriate. But, when used to discern between quality and mediocrity or beauty and vulgarity is indispensable.
"Judgement when used to condemn and criticize is not appropriate. But, when used to discern between quality and mediocrity or beauty and vulgarity is indispensable."
I'm curious why not one of 'rational thinkers' here said "amen" to that one! It should have gotten an applaud!
Here is one deserved A-M-E-N
o "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
To wit:
1. The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "
2. "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
3. See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.
And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.
To wit:
From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.
Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.
As noted, there are basic biological differences in gay unions vs. heterose-xual marriage. Government benefits are the same in both but making the distinction is important for census data and for social responses with respect to potential issues with disease, divorce and family interactions.
The Lord didn't make gay folks seek same s3x partners. They do this all on their own. Just like any of us preferring one color over another. We chose that color, not the Lord.
It's called taking responsibility for your thoughts, words, and actions.
HS: Your bigotry shines through all the time. When you use your belief to justify hate and bigotry, your belief fails! Read some of the studies that are younger and more updated than your 2000 year old book of fairy tales before thinking you know what you speak of...no-one in the rational world gives a rats ass what your imaginary friend wanted...your imaginary friend doesn't exist except in your one celled brain.
HS: I agree. My thoughts, my choices, my actions are all of my own simply because there is no divinity that exists to influence any of it. God "exists" only when someone feels the need to attribute their good or bad fortune to a fictional being.
"The Lord didn't make gay folks seek same s3x partners. They do this all on their own. Just like any of us preferring one color over another. We chose that color, not the Lord.
It's called taking responsibility for your thoughts, words, and actions."
Well then i guess all the gay animals in the animal kingdom are making conscious choices about being gay.
Steven Nock of the University of Virginia, wrote in an affidavit in last year's Ontario Superior Court gay marriage case, "not a single one of those studies was conducted according to generally accepted standards of scientific research."
Heaven Sent: Taking responsibility for your own thoughts, feelings, and actions is pretty simple, when there is no real moral conflict with seeking a gay partner. I can't think of a single soul harmed by my relationship. Now, my question is, when are Christians going to take responsibility for lying about gay activity being a sin?
jacobsart, your post is typical of non-believers telling Jesus what He said (your lies), then reading what He said ( His truth).
Jude 7
Romans 1:18-28
Jeremiah 6:15-16
Your salvation will be found in 1 Corinthians 10:13
Amen.
anybody who believes in G0d has an IQ of _zero_. Scratch that, negative. They should not be allowed to vote.
See... the war on christians!
Poor soldier. He is a little confused. Let me clear this up for you: One comment does not a war make. You are not a martyr. You are simply a member of a cult that no longer has the historical choke-hold on our population that it enjoyed for so long. Now the hatred incited by christians is more likely to be remarked upon, and returned in kind.
A negative IQ? Nice hyperbole there. I wonder how a negative IQ would work...oh, you mean Republicans!!! Now I understand! Yes, negative could almost be possible. Anti-Americans who hate government and want to see it torn down? Negative IQs there. Deliberately bad and incorrect results from almost any data. Republicans all the way.
Then again, if we could get actual representation for all citizens, then it almost wouldn't matter if anyone voted and things would be verrry different indeed. We have negative representation in Congress right now. Only money gets you freedom.
I told you Tommie, Tom, it takes courage to live life as a Christian. Most people refuse to take responsibility for their thoughts, words, actions to ensure a righteous outcome. It's easy to run away from responsibility. It's easy to do unrighteousness. That's why the Lord says that most people are on the wide path to destruction.
"I told you Tommie, Tom, it takes courage to live life as a Christian. Most people refuse to take responsibility for their thoughts, words, actions to ensure a righteous outcome. It's easy to run away from responsibility. It's easy to do unrighteousness."
Congrats, you just wrapped up christianity in a nutshell.
"I told you Tommie, Tom, it takes courage to live life as a Christian. Most people refuse to take responsibility for their thoughts, words, actions to ensure a righteous outcome. It's easy to run away from responsibility. It's easy to do unrighteousness."
It's easy to be a liar and promote a book full of lies.
jacobsart, selfish cowards refuse to live righteously.
HS
Your comment to jacobsart....condesendinig, name calliing, judgemental and holier than thou....
Yep thats the real HS...religious hypocrit
"Most people refuse to take responsibility for their thoughts, words, actions to ensure a righteous outcome. It's easy to run away from responsibility. It's easy to do unrighteousness."
You do not need a God in order to hold yourself responsible for your thoughts, words and actions, that is the biggest misconception spread by Christianity.
If we allow this, next we will have movement to legalize
1. b3st1ality
2. p3d0ph1lia
3. polygamy
3. inc3st
socety will go to hell in a hand basket
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
It's a slippery slope isn't it?
Your ignorant. Plain and simple.
your = belonging to you
you're = you are
it's already started.
1. There was a conference called B4U-ACT where p3d0 people tried to mainstream their act. do your research.
2. Kodee from TLC show sister wife has made noises about legalizing his situation saying 'g@ys have it, why not us'
be afraid, be afraid.
Trololololol
You are pretty happy about the beastiality, amirite?
soldierofpanic, I have two words for you: Consenting Adults. If you can't comprehend that simple concept, I recommend you stay away from other people and animals.
animals and children cannot consent. as far as marrying your sibling, or polygamy, go for it
We must immediately make kissing against the law!!! Because 100% of all prost1tutes started their downward decline by kissing. If we don’t stop this “socety will go to hell in a hand basket”
Soldier, good post. It takes courage to lead a Christian life. We take responsibility for our thoughts, words, actions to conduct righteous outcomes. (righteous means what is good for us as well as all concerned). Cowards take the easy way out in life. Refusing to take responsibility for their thoughts, words, actions because they have unrighteous outcomes. (unrighteous, good for the person only, who cares about any other). That's why the Lord said,
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:13
Amen.
"If we allow this, next we will have movement to legalize
1. b3st1ality
2. p3d0ph1lia
3. polygamy
3. inc3st
socety will go to hell in a hand basket"
All of which are illegal, being gay is not. You are so ignorant.
1) All around the world, right at this moment, there are gay men and lesbians who are in committed, loving relationships. This isn't about "allowing" it to happen, it already does. This is about recognizing it and giving them the same rights the rest of society enjoys.
2) Both bes.tiality and pe.do.philia involve those who can not give informed consent. They are not related to ho.mo.se.xuality at all.
3) Polygamy...or as some call it, polyamory (being that it should not be limited to a man and his wives, but equally apply to a woman with multiple husbands or a family unit of two or more of both), again with the proviso that all involved are consenting adults, should be allowed. The primary hold back is the legal issues and paperwork that would be required to protect all involved and ensure taxation happens fairly.
4) Incest, again, if we are talking about consenting adults and not a case of pe.do.philia is a social taboo, not a moral one. One need merely read the Bible to understand that there are times and places where even the Christian god condones it.
Romans 1:24-28
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient (KJV)
Amen.
HS
The original post here had to deal with legalizing things...meaning that there is a law involved.
Posting from your 2000year old blog is inappropriate.
Keep your silly book away from our laws
@HeavenSent
God is angry at them for their apostacy.
That they joined a bi-se/xual or/gy is not the point.
Do you think God would've been OK if they'd instead had a straight or/gy?
Who invited me? You're showing your ignorance. Our laws come from God's truth and were written for those that refused to abide in His truth.
HS
There is no such thing as gods truth.
the truth is man made god
god made nothing
"Our laws come from God's truth and were written for those that refused to abide in His truth."
How many of the 10 commandments are codified into law?
How many of those that are distinct to Christianity?
answer TRUE or FALSE only
1. Harry Hay, one of the leaders of early g@y movement supported N*A*M*B*L*A the p3do organization
2. N*A*M*B*L*A participated in early g@y r1ghts parades
3. Mark Foley, the politician, fooled around with naughty messages to boys, and when caught, said "sorry I am g@y thats why I did this"
Answer TRUE or FALSE
SoldierOfConscience's points are all obvious and stupid red herrings.
@ hawaii guest: TRUE TRUE TRUE!!!! The guy really is a troll.
He has posted the same goofy crap on every thread possible. He used to spell his screen name wrong: it was"Solder of Conscience" until someone pointed it out to him.
I think I'm just going to make fun of all the fallacies whenever I see Soldiers posts.
@Soldier, proving Poe correct once again.
It's funny. With simple google search, I found several lists of clergymen and women who have been accused and/or convicted of se.xually abusing minors. I wonder if Ol' Soldier forgot that we're all on the internet here, and it only takes a few seconds to find evidence that the christians are just as bad as everybody else. Maybe soldier should worry about that beam in his own eye before worrying about the motes in the eyes of others.
Soldier, another good post. Selfish, self centered, self absorbed people don't like being discovered. They love to pretend that they care about others, when in reality, it's all about them.
"Selfish, self centered, self absorbed people don't like being discovered. They love to pretend that they care about others, when in reality, it's all about them."
Sound like religious folk to me
sam, it's easy to live a selfish, unrighteous life with no rules, no regulations, no responsibility. That's why so many are on the wide path to destruction. Cheer up, you've got plenty of company.
"sam, it's easy to live a selfish, unrighteous life with no rules, no regulations, no responsibility"
you have no idea of what kind of life i live, you arrogant twit
HS: Get back on your knees and open your mouth for the second coming of Jeebus. Relax, you have plenty of other savior sucking sycophants for company
Romans 1:24-28
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient (KJV)
Amen.
HS: Grease up your bible with some lube and insert it deep into whatever cavity is most convenient. Amen
It doesn't matter what Episcopal. church allows or doesn't allow. God's Standard never changes. The only thing they're proving is that they are part of the "harlot church" spoken of in the Word fo God. If there are any God's people who belong to Him in that "church", God will take them out. His sheep hears His voice, and does not follow an impostor.
Let them play church if they want, but their doors are burned, turned into ashes, their priests satan's workers in long religious robes. But they do not touch nor affect God's anointed ones!
Who are "God's people"? Every person, everywhere. Every country. Every ethnicity. Every nationality.
Amen Prism, tell them what they need to hear of Jesus' truth instead of all these phony preachers telling them man made lies of what they want to hear. Give them it with all that salt God gave you.
Prism, it would appear that god's standard does change frequently and has changed many times, basically every time his book gets re-translated or otherwise revised.
If you are now going to claim that to be man's fault, then you need to ask yourself why your deity couldn't come up with a more reliable means of presenting his "standards" even if they are the bad ones that you are suggesting.
Sophia, things are not the way they appear to you. God is always ahead of human understanding, therefore it is US who must SEEK Him, not attempting to figure Him out , as so many do, and consequently fall into error
(Isaiah55:8,9)
"Things are not the way they appear to you."
How would you know whether they are or not, you presumptuous prig?
Madtown, no we are not all God's people. We are all God's creation, but we become God's people by becoming His sons and daughters through humbling ourselves before Him and acknowledging who we are and who He is, and our need for Him and His righteousness, through Christ Jesus His Son. There is no other way . Everything else is false, lifeless hope that's amiss!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Heaven Sent, by the grace of God you and I both will !
"by the grace of delusions you and I both will be dead!"
There – it is corrected.
"god's standard" certainly does change, prissy
Answer, Jesus said, most are on the wide path to destruction. Therefore, you won't be alone.
I am a creation (so to speak) of my parents, certainly not of some ficticious & vicious god.
Tommie Tom, don't be mad, just make like a tree.
PRISM 1234, great response to Sophia. It's true, so many folks want to make God into their image instead of seeking who He is.
jwt, it was a blessing from God that He allowed you to come into this world.
Amen.
PRISM 1234
Madtown, no we are not all God's people.
-----–
You are hopelessly and amusingly incorrect. You want to believe it's this, so you can maintain the notion that you are special relative to other human beings on the planet that think differently from you. The truth is.......you are not special. Very basic logic blows up your entire notion that you are one of "God's people" through following the christian way: not all human beings in this world will have a chance to know about Jesus Christ, and will ever learn of the christian way. You actually think God would create entire subsets of human beings, not allow them to know the "1 and only way", then punish for not following this 1 and only way? If you can't see the very basic illogical nature of that assumption, then no further conversation is necessary with you. Keep posting if you wish, but it will only be for our comedic entertainment benefit.
Madtown, here's you answer ...
Romans 1:24-28
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient (KJV)
Amen.
HeavenSent
Madtown, here's you answer ...
-----
The often-edited writings of human beings do not provide an answer. That's what is impossible to get through a thick head like yours...................there is no "answer"!!! Live, love, enjoy life. Do not judge according to an "answer" made up by people who happen to think the same way that you do.
Madtown, there is one thing you fail to understand, and it's that written Word of God you are attempting to discredit is made alive by the Spirit of God, who testifies of truth written in it. Even your own soul knows it, but because of Pride and the love of Self that's in your heart, you deny it. You will never find rest and peace in your soul, not in this life nor in next, unless you acknowledge your need of Christ's righteousness, and become desperate as a beggar, seeking Him more then anything else satan offers you to gratify your own Self!
As for your other post directed to me... i have no aim to discuss this with you again. I have discussed this very subject in the past with you, in lengthy, in depth post. You pretended you've not seen it... :You have the same chance as everyone else to know God . But what's keeping you from Him, that's the real issue!
Woooo more inane babble from one of the best at it. And yet, PRISM is simply unable to give any evidence of god, the accuracy of the bible, or any of the other assertions that he spews forth.
PRISM 1234
Madtown, there is one thing you fail to understand, and it's that written Word of God you are attempting to discredit is made alive by the Spirit of God, who testifies of truth written in it.
-------
You never answer any question directed towards you for one reason....you're unable to. Unable to without resorting to more illogical and unproven gibberish, that is. The "written word of God", again....there's no such thing. The bible you refer to was written by men. This is not an arguable fact. Sure, those men tell you that they were "inspired" to write the words they did, but why do you trust them? Human beings are fallible, imperfect, not to be trusted. They tell you there work is the inspired word of God so you'll accept it. You, being the incredibly gullible fool you are, accept it without questioning anything at all. If the bible was truly the work of God, why do men need to write it at all? Why does God not just beam it down from heaven, in its perfect form? If the spirit of God testifies to the truth in the word, why would a governing body of human beings need to select the specific works to be part of the bible? Wouldn't that be up to God, considering it's his word? And, why if it's the perfect word of God, which is the 1 truth, does God not make these words available to all the human beings he created? Why would he only allow a small subset of all humans on earth to learn about the bible, if it really is the 1 and true way? Why didn't God send another son or daughter to deliver the good news to the native Americans living in North American at the time of Christ? He created them, why did he deny them knowledge of their alleged savior, or his word? You'll be 100% completely unable to answer any of these questions, but I would be again fully entertained by your attempt.
@Madtown
The words you said here "You'll be 100% completely unable to answer any of these questions, but I would be again fully entertained by your attempt." pretty much reveal WHY you can't know God! Even the dead come to life wouldn't convince you! You have a deep problem within your soul, Madtown! Only Christ can deliver you! But you have allowed satan to build a fortress in you, by choosing to accepting his lies, instead of seeking God, which only comes through humbling oneself! And that's the 'heart' issue!
No need to say anything else. Go your way, and one day, soon enough, you'll know!
I will pray for you, and I do wish you well!
Prism1234
The brainwashing is complete in you isn't it...
Since you invited yourself...here is your answer.
Since the DEATH is completed in you, you are not able to see, think, nor understand beyond your fallen, corrupt nature. And because you rejected the knowledge of God that was given to you imprinted by God your conscience, He has given you the spirit of stupor, so that while still living in this body , you are dead man in your spirit. And since without the spirit being alive in you, you are lame and blind, being destined to stumble in darkness all the days of your life. If you call me brainwashed, and my posts seem to you as being foolish, it is of no wonder, considering from what kind of person it comes, and his condition....
You all say the same thing, but it is because you are blind beggars in this world, and are full of anger and envy because you KOW that your lives are empty and the fruits of them as chaff blown in the wind. You'll never admit it, for pride that's in you, but the void that God put in your heart, where He is supposed to dwell, is never filled, and if it is filled with something, it s always amiss! ......There is nothing in this world you can do or possess to compare to the knowledge of God in Christ Jesus our Lord who gives LIFE to those who come to Him, in humbleness of their hearts acknowledging their need for His righteousness. But even this is foolishness to you, because to those who are perishing all wisdom of God is foolishness. And that's just the way it is!
Here,now! Since you invited yourself, you've got it!
*****And because you rejected the knowledge of God that was given to you imprinted by God *ON* your conscience"
PRISM 1234,
The most likely scenario is that you have totally wasted this one and only life you will ever have, wallowing in your horror story (I suppose that makes you happy, though?)... but you have diminished and damaged the lives of those with whom you have come in contact - and that is desp'icable.
Well the Episcopal church can do so if they wish....they just can't call it Biblical.
U r gonna stop them? 🙂
they can call it whatever they want U gonna stop them? 🙂
It says "Episcopal priests would be allowed to conduct services blessing same-s e x relationships under a policy up for final approval Tuesday :,,,, This is going to cause confusion in the pews when it is preached that same-s e x relationships are wrong but yet later in the day, they offer a blessing for them. What a mess this is.
It's obvious they sold out.
Maybe they felt the love of christ and decided to bless the couple
sam, they felt the spirit of satan, not God.
HeavenSent
sam, they felt the spirit of satan, not God.
----–
You don't speak for God. The priests are practicing the teachings of Jesus, love, acceptance, and non-judgment. You, are not practicing the teachings of Jesus. You are a bigoted representative of the lower forms of the human race.
Madtown, the priests are perverting Jesus' truth. Jesus already wrote what would happen at end of days.
HeavenSent
Madtown, the priests are perverting Jesus' truth
-----
You don't speak for Jesus. You don't follow his teachings. It's highly unlikely that you'd ever be accepted by him as a disciple, were that even possible.
HS: You do not speak for god
HS: So, Jesus wrote this, eh?
End of days?
Now that someone has said THESE are the end of days, I guess that negates all the prior END OF DAYS prophets.
All you atheists will never feel the love of god deep inside your bowls like I have. Open all of yourself to Christ's pounding truths.
@fake L,
give it a rest. Handle spoofing is childish and tedious.
Its ok.Let whoever this person is troll.
Sounds more like semolina
Correction: salmonella
L, these folks who steal handles are on the wide path to destruction. Never taking responsibility for their thoughts, words, actions. Hence, unrighteous outcomes that they only care about themselves, caring less about all others.
@Tom,
alternatively, I'd ask, who is heaven sent?
particularly given all the childish and tedious handle spoofing going on. (And yes, there is an intentional pun in there.)
Ooops, forgot to hit reply!
So, how many times did Heaven Sent lie on here today?
@Tom, – reposted
alternatively, I'd ask, who is heaven sent?
particularly given all the childish and tedious handle spoofing going on. (And yes, there is an intentional pun in there.)
Tommie, go get spoiled with man made lies you got comfortable with with the phony preachers on TV. A true Christian isn't going to stroke your ego. Your soul is at stake.
I wouldn't watch a TV preacher if he were the only thing on TV and we had 4 feet of snow on the ground.
You are nuts, lady. The reason you don't go to a church is because you think you know more than any minister does. You won't listen to a sermon in which a priest might disagree with your idea of what the bible actually meant. That's why you sit and read your Bible all day. You can't accept that others might have different ideas that are just as valid as yours and that would mean you were....not always correct.
Guess what? You aren't.
Heavensent you are seriously starting to annoy me...
Tommie, Tom, the reason I stopped attending church is because I wanted to learn all of Jesus' truth (the Bible). The church kept repeating the same few scriptures over and over again. Year after year. I gave them 16 years to teach all of Jesus' truth. It never happened. The Bible can be taught from Genesis through Revelation in a little over 3 years, attending church once a week. This never happened, so I left the church and have been reading His truth, on my own.
Actually, Tommie Tom. The priests were I attended church were excellent in delivering sermons. They also excelled in leading Jesus' flock. However, they weren't head of the church and they couldn't change the agenda of never teaching the entire scriptures of our Lord.
Ahhhh...your soul is at stake....and HS show know, as she is god's personal representative