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Unpacking report that Katie Holmes has rejoined Catholic Church
Actress Katie Holmes recently filed for divorce from actor Tom Cruise.
July 11th, 2012
06:27 PM ET

Unpacking report that Katie Holmes has rejoined Catholic Church

By Eric Marrapodi, Co-Editor, CNN's Belief Blog

(CNN) - In the blizzard of reports surrounding Tom Cruise's recent split with Katie Holmes, this one stands out: After her years married to Scientologist Cruise, Holmes is said to be rejoining the Roman Catholic Church of her youth.

A report from the Huffington Post with the decisive headline "Katie Holmes Returns to Catholic Church" has been rattling around the Internet since Monday. But the Internet newspaper cites a lone unnamed member of the church choir, who claims Holmes has registered as a parishioner of the Church of St. Francis Xavier in New York.

“Everyone is thrilled to have Katie join us,” the church member told Huffington Post reporter Naughty But Nice Rob. “She has not yet attended a service, but when she does she will be welcomed with open arms.”

“We have no comment regarding Katie Holmes in the context of reports of her becoming a parishioner of the Church St. Francis Xavier,” said Patrick Brewis, the church’s director of stewardship.

Brewis said the church has been flooded with calls and e-mails about the prospect of Holmes’ possible registration. He noted that regardless of who a parishioner or potential parishioner might be, the church doesn’t disclose that information.

“If Jane Smith or John Doe or Katie Holmes was a parishioner, we would not be sharing that information,” he said.

Holmes has likewise been mum since the recent news of her divorce, save a joint statement issued by representatives of the star couple.

"We want to keep matters affecting our family private and express our respect for each other's commitment to each of our respective beliefs and support each other's roles as parents," the statement read. It's unclear whether Holmes ever formally joined the Church of Scientology.

CNN's Belief Blog: the faith angles behind the big stories

The pastor of Church of St. Francis Xavier, Father Joe Costantino, told the Daily Beast he was caught off-guard when reporters started calling about Holmes' alleged membership.

“I didn’t even know who she was,” Costantino told the site. He added that if she had registered or taken Communion there recently, “It’s news to me.”

Joseph Zwilling, the spokesman for the Catholic Archdiocese of New York, couldn't confirm or deny that Holmes had joined the Church of St. Francis Xavier or any other Catholic church, saying that "if a person joined the parish, it’s done on the parish level.” Zwilling said he had not heard one way or the other from St. Francis Xavier's administrative offices.

Celebrities have bemoaned their lack of privacy when it comes to matters religious. "Next time I'm in church, please no photos," raps Kanye West in "Run this Town," a hit song he recorded with Rihanna and Jay-Z.

The Archdiocese of New York is no stranger to celebrity guests at its services, particularly at the famed St. Patrick's Cathedral, Zwilling said, but "we have not had any incidents with paparazzi or other people approaching (celebrities) at Mass. If they did they’d be asked to leave."

"Anyone who comes to Mass would be expected to follow the proper protocols," he said. "I think people understand and respect when you're in church, you don’t disturb them when they’re in a house of worship.”

Tod Tamberg, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, was born in Hollywood and grew up going to St. Charles Catholic Church in North Hollywood. He remembered going to services with "Farrah Fawcett on one side of me, John Wayne's family on the other side of me and the Bob Hope family behind me."

Tamberg said he has had few, if any, incidents surrounding celebrities attending worship services.

"When they come through the doors of the church, people know who people are, but people are doing their own thing," he said. “I’ve never seen anyone ask for autographs over the years ... and I’ve been in position to see it a lot.”

Should Holmes decide to return to the Catholic Church, she could follow a similar script as Nicole Kidman, who was also once married to Cruise and was also raised Catholic.

Tamberg said Kidman has returned to the church since her divorce.

“Usually, what happens is, there’s still some ties to the church through your family,” he said. "My understanding with the Kidman story is, she was close to a priest her family had known their whole lives. That was helpful to her in picking up the pieces after the divorce."

Should Holmes decide to return to Catholicism, Tamberg said, it's a fairly easy process.

“You basically can pick it up where you left off,” he said, pointing to Jesus talking often in the Bible of rejoicing over wandering adherents returning to the fold.

"There’s no test you have to take. Once you’ve received the sacraments, those are a permanent mark," he said, citing the sacraments of Communion, baptism and confirmation.

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Even if a person has publicly renounced his or her faith, Tamberg said, returning would only be a matter of private counseling with a priest, though even that process is not formalized.

As the unnamed member of the Church of St. Francis Xavier and hordes of reporters wait for Holmes to attend a service in New York, they may want to consider that the parish has an online registration form that anyone can fill out.

In most parishes,  Zwilling noted, that's a form you have to fill out in person.

Brewis welcomed the attention paid to the Church of St. Francis Xavier, saying it is “striving to be a vibrant parishioner-driven community.” He added, “On the plus side, many people who hadn't heard about us and the extraordinary work we do have heard about us now.”

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church

soundoff (1,139 Responses)
  1. Reality

    Dear Katie H,

    Some information in your search for the truth:

    1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

    “New Torah For Modern Minds

    Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
    prob•a•bly
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

    2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

    Current problems:
    Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

    3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

    This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

    And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

    Current crises:

    The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

    4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

    The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

    Current problems:

    The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.

    5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

    "However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

    Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

    Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

    Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

    July 13, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
  2. Bill Deacon

    Where is the evidence of this gag order? Or are you guilty of unsubstantiated accusations?

    July 13, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
  3. monkigun

    Tom Cruise seems to be a great motivator to bring women back to the Holy Church. The Lord works in mysterious ways. Wondering if, indeed Holmes is back will she baptize the kids soon.

    July 13, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      If someone commits mass murder, do you call them mysterious? No, (hopefully) you would call them a horrible poop nose. If God exists, he/she/it is a horrible poop nose.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • Kristi G

      @ Rational Libertarian How very disappointing to see a fellow Libertarian calling names like a school yard bully and mocking other’s personal beliefs. What business is it of yours? Live your life with dignity and respect others please sir.

      July 13, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Kristi

      Calling God a poop nose has nothing to do with politics. If the Abrahamic God exists, he is a poop nose. Also, religion is very much my business. If you truly are a libertarian, you'll agree that religion is our enemy, as religions want to impose their warped morality on everyone.

      July 13, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Rational Libertarian

      Poop nose is waaaaaaaay to nice for the abrahamic god.

      July 13, 2012 at 4:32 pm |
    • bmcp4tr01

      Anyone who goes through the official RCIA program here in the UK usually lapses within 5 years. Cruise is doing a much better job as you rightly say.

      July 13, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
  4. the TRUTH - Atheist - Theist

    the TRUTH – Atheist – Theist
    By 2100 – when all of us in this forum die – we will know if God exists or not so take your side.

    in the mean time answer this:
    A moment after he died what Crhistoper Hitchens thought?
    a. Oooops God exists.
    b. Nothing – because he was just a talking monkey and there is no God.

    You will now in a few years from now – enjoy the ride.

    July 13, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Everybody who believes in God (and those who don't) is a talking monkey. That's indistuptable.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • BOOM

      Spell words correctly please. It shows respect for yourself and your thoughts.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      That was a typo.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Apes actually...monkeys are different

      July 13, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • BOOM

      That was more directed at the TRUTH, sorry. Typos happen.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      OK BOOM.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      How humorous. You took the time to reprimand TRUTH but give Ratlib a pass. Are his thoughts respectable whether they are spelled correctly or not?

      July 13, 2012 at 11:57 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      To fair, I only had a typo. Mr. Truth had semantic, grammatical and spelling mistakes.

      July 13, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • J.W

      The only word I see that TRUTH spelled incorrectly was Christopher

      July 13, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • J.W

      "To fair..." was also a grammatical error.

      July 13, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Dang it. That should be "to be fair". I'm becoming incredibly self conscious on this thread.

      July 13, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • J.W

      Lol I dont really care about it, but I do agree with Bill. If we are gonna criticize one person for spelling and grammar we should hold everyone to the same standard.

      July 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm |
    • Lux

      Of course the choices really were
      a. Oooops God exists.
      b. Nothing – because there is no God.
      No real need to mention talking monkeys especially as we're talking apes.

      July 13, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Not to mention

      There is a god
      There is no god
      is a false dichotomy.

      By the way, which god are you talking about?

      July 13, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Absolute truth is unknowable. Science does not claim this.

      Religionists claim this but when questioned about the nature of God and why he does what he does or permits what he permits the answer is always that God is mysterious and far above human comprehension.

      From that I can only logically conclude that absolute truth is unknowable.

      Anyone who claims to understand absolute truth is delusional.

      July 13, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Sorry, let me clarify my premise.

      Scientists do not claim absolute truth.
      Religionists claim that absolute truth is knowable but cannot defend this argument.

      July 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
  5. derp

    Jerry Sandusky and a Catholic priest walk into a bar.......

    July 13, 2012 at 9:24 am |
  6. liz48

    I ask the Katie and her family find G-d and His endless Love and Goodness; and His making us One with Him so that we can rule and reign like Him – not an organization or denomination dominated by man's agenda; basically man's pride.

    July 13, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • chefdugan

      So she goes from one evil organization to another that is even more evil. One pathetic creature!

      July 13, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Not evil, industrious. The Catholic Church is the wealthiest business organization on the planet. You have to give them some credit for that.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:34 am |
  7. scroou

    Such a sad state this world is in. This is a news article, and then everyone who disagrees with it has to jump on here, make their opinions known to hundreds of people who don't give a hoot, and then, they have to try to prove their opinions. Move on people. Go to work, raise your families, and quit bickering.

    July 13, 2012 at 8:27 am |
    • Crazy Larry

      I think your handle is the best response to your comment.

      July 13, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
  8. Reality

    Dear Katie H,

    JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")

    Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.

    Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

    Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.

    Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

    So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?

    July 12, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
    • liz48

      Instead of referring to the "experts," why don't you open your mouth and ask if there is G-d that He will reveal Himself to you. The "experts" at one time believed the earth was flat and so did religion. Today you would be considered insane if you said the earth was flat...or it is imagination that the earth is a sphere...:-)))???

      Talk to G-d with a SINCERE DESIRE to know the Truth, and He will reach out to you; in the way He knows how; and in the ways you are wired....and it may not be through a church, denomination or your manifold research, based on puny limited human knowledge...

      July 13, 2012 at 8:52 am |
    • Religion is the #1 problem in this world by far

      Liz, that other voice in your head? It's still your voice.

      July 13, 2012 at 8:56 am |
    • BOOM

      Religon, when you do it, you don't hear a 'voice' – you become open minded (maybe you can appreciate that) and you will see what needs to be said to you.

      It is fun to put others down to exhalt your own cunning sepremacy of logic, but honestly you cannot know what others have experieced or deny that your beliefs are a unique result of your experiences and your mind. Try showing respect when the religous person is being reasonable in a societal context; it can't hurt anything.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Well said BOOM

      July 13, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • Lux

      @Boom. Your implication is that only the religious are open-minded. I would argue that adherence to the "absolute truth" derived from interpretations of a book written over thousands of years, subject to translation errors, intentionally edited, based on very few verifiable facts is anything but open-minded.

      July 13, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
  9. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things says

    See prayer scientifically work with the power of god at saladandchips.com.

    July 12, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • liz48

      This is a p_o_r_n site and may G-d destroy the d-emons of the vileness of any person who put this link on, so that they will be set free as a human beings in their destruction, and reach out to G-d...

      July 13, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • El

      Liz48,

      That is Gods P.o.r.n site. It the the holiest of wholies.

      July 13, 2012 at 10:33 am |
  10. Mike

    Hey Back. Of course atheist do good works. But that's only because the law of God is written upon your heart whether you believe in him or not. There is only One and he is your God too.

    July 12, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • tiny bubbles

      Hey Mike,
      You got it all wrong, and you're not even giving yourself credit. Your morals are yours, not gods.

      July 12, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • שמיחזה

      now now
      there are many gods Monotheism is a lie

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?=MlnnWbkMlbg

      July 12, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • שמיחזה

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

      July 12, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • שמיחזה

      F4ck this Sh!t just copy and past

      July 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Nice video post – well worth the look and very interesting.

      Too bad about the embedding. https perhaps?

      July 12, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • k9zgirl

      Exactly!

      July 13, 2012 at 12:53 am |
    • *facepalm*

      Is that the same law of god that says we should stone rape victims? If that law was supposed to be written on my heart, then I think God made a typo. Or does he write different things on different hearts? But that would make him a moral relativist, which is bad – right? So ... your god is bad? Not that one could really draw any other conclusion from a thorough reading of the OT.

      July 13, 2012 at 1:10 am |
    • jwt

      So your version of your god is the right one? Not for me and there is no possible way in this universe that your god is my god.

      July 13, 2012 at 7:06 am |
  11. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    July 12, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs:!

      July 13, 2012 at 10:54 am |
  12. Van

    Enough of the attention to Katie Holmes and the sympathy she is receiving in the media! She was an unknown when she married him. Dawson's Creek, and part in Batman that was panned by the critics. Now everyone knows who she is because she married Tom Cruise. She married the guy when she was 27 years old, a grown woman. She knew he was a scientologist and knew he raised his children that way. If her judgement was so clouded that she could not see that he was a kook then, she certainly could have read the tabloids and understood the rest of the world thought so. She quit the marriage even though she knew his values when she married him... and the public/media thinks SHE Is the victim?? Give me a break!

    July 12, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
    • Lisa

      I totally agree with this! Katie Holmes knew exactly what Tom was when she married him. He hid nothing from her. She knew his lifestyle and that he was a Scientologist. She's not the victim, not by a long shot. I don't feel sorry for her one bit! She lied and pretended everything was okay in the marriage even as close as days before her departure. That's deceitful and very unfair to Tom. I may not agree with his crazy religion but I like Tom Cruise, always have and always will.

      July 12, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
  13. blinky

    If you really think most Catholics are brain-washed and trapped in a cult, maybe you should actually talk to some of them. And don't simply pick out the hot-tempered, accusatory few because then you will get a biased sample. I am not a Catholic, never have been or wanted to be, but I've known dozens of Catholics over the years and none of them are the creepy, brain-dead zombies that seem to be portrayed on this board. The "frightening" truth is that Catholics are average people with a lot of similarities to everyone else. You probably know some people you have normal routines with, who are Catholic and you just don't realize it.

    July 12, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • victim of clergy abuse, one abuser is a bishop in NY

      most catholics left the filth pit.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • victim of clergy abuse, one abuser is a bishop in NY

      Blinky is likely a catholic priests. They love to deceive. Some even have forum names as CatholicMom. They just never grew up.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • blinky

      Victim, I'm sorry to hear that you suffered abuse, but I stand by what I said based on the many Catholics I've met over decades. No, I'm not Catholic or a member of any other church, have never been a member of any church and am not interested in attending or joining any.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • derp

      The "frightening" truth is that scientologists are average people with a lot of similarities to everyone else. You probably know some people you have normal routines with, who are scientologists and you just don't realize it.

      No difference. All religions are cults.

      July 13, 2012 at 9:22 am |
  14. Moses

    Jumping ship from one cult to another.

    July 12, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Moses

      I am stupid

      July 13, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • Aaron

      Neither of you are Moses.

      Moses had a lisp - so he would say, "Motheth", "thip" and "thupid"!

      July 13, 2012 at 11:59 am |
  15. victim of clergy abuse, one abuser is a bishop in NY

    ... the RCC is a filthy lying organization. The bishops and pope, bunch of men who never grew up to live a responsible adult life. They care only about money and power. The catholic church could end child hunger world wide with their worth. Instead the pope sits in a gold chair, wearing gold lined wardrobes, while children are dying the worst deaths – starving. Disgusting liars is who they all are.

    July 12, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • victim of clergy abuse, one abuser is a bishop in NY

      and today, these bishops lobby to stop laws that would expose the truth. Yet the truth is the greatest healer, This religion is a lie, parishioners do nothing to demand laws change and the bishops promise their catholic votes to lawmakers to stop laws from passing. All victims lose now, no matter who abused.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Daniel S.

      Yea, the RCC and every other first-world country could end poverty, but their leaders and citizens choose to drive in SUVs and sports cars, live in huge houses, hold meetings in large domed buildings, and wear designer clothing.
      The U.S. gov't could end world hunger with just its supply of grain and Americans could still be as fat as they want to be. Same with milk, meat, chicken, and other food sources.
      People sure like to pick on the RCC for its shortcomings, but don't even criticize those who have the largest shortcomings in the same categories. If you want to generalize, do it properly.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • back

      however the catholic church claims to follow their jesus.. Guess you proved exactly what I stated – the RCC is a big lie.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • victim of clergy abuse, one abuser is a bishop in NY

      RCC = Evil

      July 12, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • junior

      Sounds like Judas Iscariot rebuking Martha, sister of Lazarus, for anointing Jesus with oils, oils that he said could have fed the poor.

      July 12, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @junior

      Do you have a point or do you just want to feel like you contributed something when you didn't?

      July 12, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      I think junior's point is spot on. Hawaii will attack it though because it is based on scritpure

      July 13, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • Steve

      You're an idiot. Do you know anything about the church or did you read all those lies in your KKK pamphlet. End world hunger by doing what exactly? Gold lined this and that? When's the last time you entered a church? Most priests live on nothing and bishops as well. Most things the pope has were donated or have been. In the church for centuries. He doesn't own them anymore than the president owns anything in the white house. If your sucha saint why don't you give up your Internet and donate the monthly bill to the poor. Don't judge or you too will be judged.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      And yet you can't even provide the point that he was trying to make. Good job.

      July 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      His point is clear to me. He is saying that any fool can point fingers and claim someone else ought to pay for the poor but that there is a time and place for ministering to the not so needy

      July 13, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @BIll

      So I guess that sometimes the poor just aren't important?

      July 13, 2012 at 5:06 pm |
  16. David Miscarriage

    Jesus...from one bunch of nutcases to another.

    July 12, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
  17. PAUL

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvSo2kdb4_0

    July 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
  18. whatever

    DID SHE POOP TODAY?

    July 12, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • PAUL

      WE NEED FRIENDS EVERYWHERE...:0)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiIzHTK1npQ

      July 12, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
  19. Ran

    From one wackjob religion to another.

    July 12, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
    • whatever

      seriously

      July 12, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • Haynes

      Ran,
      You cannot logically put Catholicism and Scientology on the same level, its ridiculous. Your ancestors probably held one of those "wackjob" religions close to the heart at one time. Ms. Holmes went back to Catholicism for personal reasons that she holds to be private. Respect that and people will respect you.

      July 12, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • back

      they are on the same level,, and also the same as muslim. All delusional and child abuse. I treat religion as p-o-r-n and keep it away from children. Sadly the religious don't care about brainwashing children. In the end, the cult fears make it difficult for them to use proper reasoning and leave as they mature, called mental blocking.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • hez316

      @back Our president is a professing Christian

      July 12, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • hez316

      Our vice president is a professing Catholic.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • back

      doesn't prove a thing.. In fact if they were't, the religious freaks wouldn't vote for them. It's delusional stuff anyways, why would the pres or vice care?? They wouldn't.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • Lewis Keseberg

      Haynes is right. You cannot put Catholicism and Scientology on the same level. Nothing that Scientology teaches, from my knowledge, even approaches the weekly ritualistic cannibalism that Catholics practice.

      July 13, 2012 at 1:12 am |
  20. Mike

    Why can't RCC bashers understand that the abuse scandal didn't because because Catholics were practicing their faith? It happened because Catholics were NOT practicing it.

    July 12, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • Steve

      Their father has their eyes blinded.

      July 12, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • midwest rail

      So if the faithful had been MORE faithful, then the church hierarchy would have seen the error of their ways ? Nope.

      July 12, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • victim of clergy abuse, one abuser is a bishop in NY

      The RCC is a filthy lying organization. The bishops and pope, bunch of men who never grew up to live a responsible adult life. They care only about money and power. The catholic church could end child hunger world wide with their worth. Instead the pope sits in a gold chair, wearing gold lined wardrobes, while children are dying the worst deaths – starving. Disgusting liars is who they all are.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Mike

      You guys are kind of agreeing with me without realizing it. My point is that if the priests who committed these crimes and the people who knew but did nothing would have followed their faith, the abuse would not have happened. The Catholic faith is a very beautiful thing. Too bad so few follow it. -and that is particularly true among many of the Bishops. They will have much to answer for.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • back

      hey Mike,, 'Good' comes from good people and that includes atheists. Religion has zero concept of good. Sadly, they steal the good works of others and claim it as their own.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Mike is right in my opinion. It astounds me that supposedly reasonable people are not able to differentiate between the criminal activities of a group that comprises somewhere around 2% of a billion plus member organization and the organization itself, all the while, minimizing the same behavior in other more politically acceptable groups. For instance Hollywood's film industry is reported to be rampant with pedophilia but you don't see anyone boycotting films or calling for the shutdown of the film industry. Amazing.

      July 13, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • midwest rail

      " Reported to be " by whom ? Where ? Is there a link to a reputable news organization's story ? And are you saying that Hollywood is on the same moral footing as the Vatican ? Amazing.

      July 13, 2012 at 9:44 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      midwest Corey Haim (deceased) and Corey Feldman have both reported abuse. Others have as well though I don't follow Hollywood. I am merely pointing out what you surely cannot deny that pedophilia exist in other organizations. Witness Penn State. Are we suggesting now that Penn State be closed because of the actions of a few? My larger point is the refusal of people who have an anti-Catholic agenda to separate the actions of criminals in the Church from the doctrine of the Church. This is a willful conflation designed to bring down the Church to the point that many are not even camouflaging their motives.

      AS to Hollywood and the Vatican being on the same moral footing. Are you suggesting there be a double standard for morality? Surely, we are all judged by the same standard and truthful, we all fall short. A culture that celebrates sin is not hence licensed to practice it simply by acknowledging that it is in the nature. The error people make, and it is understandable is that we insist that some people achieve and maintain a higher moral standard when the truth is we are all equally sinful.

      July 13, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Martin Weiss, a 47-year-old Hollywood manager who represented child actors, was charged in Los Angeles on Dec. 1 with seexually abusing a former client. His accuser, who was under 12 years old during the time of the alleged abuse, reported to authorities that Weiss told him "what they were doing was common practice in the entertainment industry." Weiss has pleaded not guilty.

      On Nov. 21, Fernando Rivas, 59, an award-winning composer for “Sesame Street,” was arraigned on charges of coercing a child “to engage in seexually explicit conduct” in South Carolina. The Juilliard-trained composer was also charged with production and distribution of child por no graphy.

      Registered seex offender Jason James Murphy, 35, worked as a casting agent in Hollywood for years before his past kidnapping and seexual abuse of a boy was revealed by the Los Angeles Times on Nov. 17. Murphy’s credits include placing young actors in kid-friendly fare like "Bad News Bears," "The School of Rock," "Cheaper by the Dozen 2” and the forthcoming "Three Stooges.”

      Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/12/05/recent-charges-seexual-abuse-children-in-hollywood-just-tip-iceberg-experts-say/#ixzz20WHGgrB4

      July 13, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Bill – the biggest difference is that Hollywood does not purport to be a " moral compass " for anyone, whereas the Vatican certainly does. On that basis alone, of course they should be held to a higher standard. Your assertion that they should not be speaks volumes about how low the Vatican has sunk.

      July 13, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      You have inverted my position. I am saying that there is an absolute morality, not a subjective one. One's status in society, high or low, does not confer either exemption nor extra burden. Hence, priests who engage in crimes are as guilty as Hollywood producers, football coaches or others. However, the guilt of individuals does not a conspiracy make. This fact seems to escape regard by people who deliberately paint ALL Catholic clergy with the same brush in an overt attempt to denigrate the faith and spread a dialogue of hatred towards the faithful. These same folks, which seems to include you, want to give Hollywood a pass based on logic that sounds like you are willing to accept heinous acts from some parts of society but not others. I maintain a pedophile is a pedophile regardless of his profession and regardless of the nefarious path he chose to access his victims.

      July 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Again you are conflating the crimes of individuals with the values of the group, whether it is the Church while exempting other groups. No one, who lives in reality, advocates the Church to support pedophilia. It is dishonesty at its zenith to propose that it is otherwise. You are blocking attempts to deal productively with the real issues by slathering blame on the whole organization instead of the criminals. This kind of demonization only perpetuates the kind of coverups by people's misguided attempts to protect the group whether it be a church, University or industry compounding the original crimes .

      July 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      There's a difference your not addressing. The pedophiles in the church are having higher ups all the way to a global gag order from the pope so that they can completely avoid responsibility. Is the head of Hollywood, who is supposed to be infallible doing that? Oh that's right there isn't any.

      July 13, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      where is the evidence of this supposed gag order? Or are you guilty of an unsubstantiated accusation? If you cannot produce it, you only confirm my position.

      July 13, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      check: huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/pope-se.xual-abuse-lawrence-murphy_n_512483.html
      bsalert.com/news/1418/Pope_Caught_Orchestrating_Church_Pedophile_Cover_Up.html
      vatican.va/resources/resources_crimen-sollicitationis-1962_en.html

      July 13, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Bill, you misunderstand my position. I have never painted all Catholics with the same brush, nor do intend to. The clergy, however, DID engage in a decades-long cover-up, not just in the United States, but world wide. All of them ? Certainly not. But it was surely more than a few, and goes to the highest levels.
      One last thing. When the best defense in any situation is " look over there, they're doing it too ", you know you have an indefensible position.

      July 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      midwest the only thing I am defending is mike's assertion that the people who committed these crimes did not do them because they were Catholic but that being Catholic is incidental to the crime. In the same way that Jerry Sandusky didn't commit his crimes because he was a football coach. The leap people make is that because crimes were committed by church members that the Church itself is to blame and that is simply not the case and is dishonest to promote. I am also not trying to divert attention to others as a defense of anyone's actions. Again, loud and clear NO ONE is defending pedophilia. I am only pointing out that the attacks against the Church are not only practicing guilt by association but that a double standard exist by which the Catholic Church is excoriated while other organizations and systems are given a pass. I just don't see how you can deny that.

      July 13, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Still waiting on evidence that indicts "the highest levels" that goes beyond mere accusation. If you have it step forward and claim your Pulitzer and go down in history as the man who had a pope jailed.

      July 13, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      You are right Bill Deacon
      We shouldn't condemn everyone for the actions of a few...like the KKK...i'm sure that under those robes their just a bunch of sweethearts, just a few of them were REALLY bad.
      Wake up Bill...the environment the church creates has is the reason this type of thing happens. It is the environment of the church that created the crusades where thousands were murdered iin gods name ( wait didn't he say thou shalt not kill, I didn't see the grey area where god explained that its ok to kill for him), the environment of the church that sent out the spanish inquisition ( where they tortured and killed their own followers) etc.etc.etc
      The entire organization is corrupt and your weak attempts to defend it won't wipe away centuries of corruption and crimes against humanity.

      July 13, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Bill,

      I would agree that "the highest levels" is an arbitrary and unsubstantiated claim.

      It is pretty well accepted that senior ordained disocesan 'administrators' were well aware of the criminal acts of priests under their jurisdiction and did not expose this to legal authorities. It is not a stretch of the imagination to think that given the length of this abuse many of those who hid these horrible crimes are now at least bishops.

      Your argument about others Universities, movie producers is relevant and we continue to discuss the culpability of Penn State administrators. But in the church with ordained ministers, surely there is a higher standard than the average laity to remember that we are our brothers' keeper. Simply to say that all men are sinners is a cop out given the magnitude of this sin.

      July 13, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      GOPer. You are correct in this sense; the Bible states that elders should be held to a higher standard. So priests, bishops and others should be. The situation mike and I are describing is not what consequences the individuals involved should face. They have ruined lives, besmirched the faith and violated trusts on many fronts. But I categorically reject the notion that the culture of the Church, the doctrine of the Church, the beliefs of the Church or the values of the Church support the criminal activity of those involved in the abuses or the coverups. This is mike's point. The criminal activity is not Catholic at it's root. Those who try to link the crimes with the faith are either ignorant to the teachings of the Church or deliberately conflating the two out of sport or bigotry.

      July 13, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Incidentally, there is no such thing as magnitude of sin. There are degrees of violating man's law but sin is sin whether it is the theft of a pencil from work or genocide of a people, theologically at least.

      July 13, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      "Incidentally, there is no such thing as magnitude of sin. There are degrees of violating man's law but sin is sin whether it is the theft of a pencil from work or genocide of a people, theologically at least."
      And that is probably one of the most unjust things that have just been passed off as just.

      July 13, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Bill,

      The behavior of senior church officials in covering up criminal acts is certainly not consistent with the beliefs of the Church. Yet those same people who covered up the crimes continue to be protected by the apparatus of the church. This is a gross form of hypocrisy and opens the inst-itution that you respect to ridicule for as long as the cycle of denial and protection of the guilty continues.

      Perhaps I am out of step with today's catechism, but the notion of mortal and venial sin is still (I suspect) deeply ingrained in Catholic tradition. This would indicate a 'magnitude' of sin. Clearly there is a difference between failing to give as generously as possible or skipping Mass on Sunday and raping little children under your care and protecting known rapists.

      July 13, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Lux

      @Bill. If all sin is equal in the eyes of the RC, why do the penances vary?

      July 13, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.