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July 19th, 2012
07:55 AM ET
Zimmerman: Shooting 'God's plan'By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - It was "God's plan" that brought together George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin in a fatal confrontation in February, Zimmerman told Fox News host Sean Hannity Wednesday in his first television interview. Zimmerman, 28, has been charged with second-degree murder for shooting Martin in what he says was self-defense. Martin was unarmed when he was killed while walking back to his father's girlfriend's house in a gated residential area of Sanford, Florida. Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty and has been free on $1 million bail since early July. Zimmerman, who said he routinely carried a gun except when he was at work, told Hannity he didn't regret deciding to follow Martin that night, after deciding the teen was acting suspiciously, and he didn't regret having a gun. "Do you feel you wouldn't be here for this interview if you didn't have that gun?" Hannity asked. "No, sir," Zimmerman responded. "You feel you would not be here?" Hannity pressed. "I feel it was all God's plan and for me to second guess it or judge it..." Zimmerman said, pursing his lips and shaking his head. The 17-year-old victim's father didn't agree with Zimmerman's claim. "We must worship a different God because there is no way that my God would have wanted George Zimmerman to kill my teenage son," Tracy Martin said in a statement after Zimmerman's interview was broadcast. CNN's Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the big stories There's an old joke about a Christian who falls down a flight of stairs and then says, "Thank God that's over." For some Christians, there is a belief that God is in control of everything in their lives, good and bad, from finding a parking space close to the grocery store to the death of a loved one.
“What's particularly striking to me in this instance,” Carr told CNN, was that “George Zimmerman is attributing something he did to God’s plan.” “It's one thing to attribute a natural disaster to God’s plan to try and make sense of the world,” he said. “It’s another thing to justify something you did as God’s plan. That’s taking it to another level.” “That lets you off the hook, but I think it can look to other people as a pretty transparent attempt at self-justification,” Carr added. Carr is an expert on the Hebrew Bible, which Christians call the Old Testament. “One thing that strikes me about many of the narratives in the Old Testament is there are so many places where characters think they know what God is up to, but we know because of the narrator in the story, they’re wrong.” “So the Bible speaks to the human misperception of what God is doing.” Zimmerman and his family were longtime members at the All Saints Catholic Church in Manassas, Virginia. "George grew up in Manassas and was active in the church during his youth as an altar server and evening receptionist in the office," Pastor Bob Cilinski of All Saints told CNN in March. "The Zimmerman family were known and respected in the community for their dedication and service." Despite his Catholic upbringing, some say that that on this point of theology, Zimmerman may be out of step with Catholic teaching. “God didn’t make us robots, he didn’t make us puppets,” said Father Tom Reese, a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University. “A key part of God’s plan is giving us freedom to make decisions. Sometimes those decisions are good and sometimes those decisions are bad," Reese said, explaining the Catholic teaching on the concept of free will. "Obviously, not everything we do is part of God’s plan. Because sometimes we sin and that certainly is not part of God’s plan. It’s contrary to what God wants." Reese said Zimmerman's sentiment is not an uncommon one among Christians. But the idea of a God who controls everything down to the last detail strikes Reese as an idea closer to Greek mythology than the God described in the Bible. "It’s based on this idea of an absolute powerful God who always gets what he wants. When we read the Scriptures, we find out God doesn’t always get what he wants. He’s disappointed and upset when things go wrong,” he said. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter “I think there’s an important insight that these people have, that is when things do go bad, when they go contrary to God’s plan, he can still make good things happen as a result," Reese said. “When these terrible things happen, God can inspire people to respond to them with courage and compassion so that something positive can come out of something very negative," he added. "But it wasn’t part of God’s plan that this guy got killed. We can’t excuse what we do by saying that’s God’s plan.” Both Carr and Reese were careful to say they were not commenting on the legal aspects of the case and noted that Zimmerman's guilt or innocence should be left up to the courts. One thing Reese said Zimmerman did get right in the interview was apologizing and praying for the Martin family. "I'm sorry they had to bury their child," Zimmerman told Hannity. "I pray for them daily." soundoff (1,528 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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When things go horribly awry, it's not uncommon for people to look to God as the one who drew up the plan, says David M. Carr, professor of Old Testament at Union Theological Seminary.
SIck sick to my soul. what does it matter, someones life means squat if you are born with the wrong skin color. This life is truely over for this kid. Many people who are making lite. of a child being shot in the heart. Will one day have to feel the pain and misery that his parents feel. I hope you get to feel the fear of knowing that your life is on the brink of ending and there is very little you can do, but to plead for someone, anyone to to please Help!!!
This head line should read, "Psycho shoots unarmed teen. The devil made him do it".
In "Zimmerman's spirituality" he forgot the law: "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER"
! Justice for Trayvon Maritin !
Zimmerman is about as creepy as they come. I hope he's found guilty and rots in jail! PUKE.
B4, what do you want, word for word? Adam hid, "god" couldn't find him ... "god" is not all knowing then is he? As far as sheet music, it's sh!t music. Your "god" needs to find other players. Maybe on one of the other billion or so planets throughout this galaxy? If the music is played that bad, the audience leaves, the musicians are fired, and the conductor is disgraced. The composer's reputation is forever tarnished, and he'll never have the prestige he once had. Looks like your "god" is tarnished and his rep is shot, never to be held in high esteem again.
You're obviously not a dad. Fathers often ask a small child "what did you do?" and other rhetorical questions when they know perfectly well where the child is and what he's doing. This gives the child a chance to own up to his actions.
As to the rest of your diatribe, hey isn't it great that you have the freedom to rail against God?
FREEDOM ! Liberty! Smell it like a fresh rose!
Enough already with the musical references, b4. You don't know the meaning of most of the terms you're blurting. Knock it off.
Tum Tum the Pimpled Bum, will you be my friend? We can have a virtual tea party!
I don't need any retarded pals.
I have 3 children ages 19 18 and 17 .. sure they got into a little trouble as small wee ones, who doesn't? But that doesn't mean they'll be punished forever . As far as what you call "freedom" goes, it cannot exist, because true free will does not have reprisals. Your "god" says worship me or forever be in anguish. That is NOT free will, that's coersion.
My, my, you are the deep thinker Mirosal. All this deep theological stuff.
Problem is, you're not equipped with the tools to properly 'divide' (KJV lingo) the Bible.
Even PhD theologians argue this stuff.
In fact, your anti-God bias probably hurts your ability to "play the devil's", or in this case, God's advocate, which is a valuable tool for understanding issues.
Actually I'm quite good at playing the devil's advocate. I'm good at pro vs. con. I am able to see different sides of issues, but your side has been claiming the same thing for untold thousands of years. "There IS a god and he's real and we know it" .. All we want is your evidence. A book is not evidence. Surely in at least 3000 years, you have something, anything tangible to show for yourself. We've been waiting that long for you to show us, why not now? There is simply no reason to believe. No god has ever been shown to exist, yours is no different. The ancient Greeks, Romans, Norse, and Egyptians were as devout as you to their gods, yet anyone on this planet today will tell you those gods are not and never were real. Gods come and go, and in time yours will go also, and be given the same imaginary status as the ones of yesteryear.
@b4
The objective word – tool. Describes you and your kind.
When it comes to initial Bible faith, evidence is irrelevant mirosal – that's basic Bible doctrine.
As for the day coming when believing in God becomes obsolete – well, it hasn't happened yet; I'll hang on until then.....
"You are missing out on so much spiritual joy."
So funny! The retards with another spin on how happy is happy.
"Look you can't be happy til you are spiritually happy." – "What?"
"You mean I'm not happy? Like when I laugh and have fun with my family?" – "That's right Johnny – you aren't happy."
"You need to be happy like us d-i-p-s-h-i-t religious people who can tell you how happy is happy." – right.
There is NO SUCH THING as Free Will. NONE. IT DOESN'T EXIST.
& check "Bill Hicks – RELENTLESS – God's Will" on youtube for the rest of what I was TRYING to say, but my comment still hasn't appeared.?
If there is a God, then this clearly WAS part of his plan. So was Hitler. So was Stalin, & Mao, & Genghis, etc etc etc etc etc. That ant you just killed; part of God's plan. NOTHING CAN OPPOSE GODS WILL.
@Chigger
You said, "what I was TRYING to say, but my comment still hasn't appeared.?"
CNN uses WordPress blogs for their opinion pieces, and they use automated censoring that looks for words, or fragments of words, that are considered offensive. If your post doesn't show up, it most likely had a forbidden word in it.
On the Belief Blog, repeat posts, even those that were previously censored and not displayed, will show a message stating that you posted it before.
The following words or word fragments will get your post censored (list is incomplete):
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To circumvent the filters you can break up the words by putting an extra character in, like: consti.tution (breaking the oh so naughty "tit").
Cute list.. Impressive.
I wrote the F-word, w/ a * in place of the U; apparently, that did it..
Basically, no such thing as free will.
God, if he does exist, is all powerful & if he does exist, everything is clearly part of his plan.
If he doesn't, there's no free will anyways, so still doesn't matter much.
Basically, as far as I can tell, you are a product of your past. Your past is a product of your upbringing. You can't have free will; your choice is predetermined.
If George's parent raised him correctly instead of allowing him to ATTACK OFFICERS, MOLEST FAMILY MEMBERS, BEAT UP WOMEN and chase down people then non of this would've happened. What a SICK ANIMAL! This guy is an ANIMALISTIC THUG who needs to be in a cage for life!
Cage yourself, you are foaming at the mouth.
Check the video, bannister, that is what he said.
God's plan is that we follow the 10 commandments, that's why he gave them to Moses. Fifth commandment: "Thou shalt not kill."
Meanwhile in Caanan
Caananite " Boy I do love worshipping my own gods, they're great"
God" KILL THEM ALL"
Israelite" What about thou shalt not kill?"
GOD" DON'T KILL OTHER ISRAELITE'S NUMBNUTS! Unless of course they kill someone you like, then you can kill them, eye for an eye and all that...... Never mind, go kill some heathens, I command it!!!"
Your god commands a whole lot of killing, according to the bible. Here's but one example, where he commands the slaughter of men, women, children and fetuses. Isaish 13:15 thru 13:18.
13:15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
13:18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
No, that is incorrect translation. It states ,"Ye shall not murder."
He admits he followed Trayvon when he told investigators he did not follow Trayvon and that Trayvon confronted him. I knew Zimmerman was going to contradict himself with this interview. The procecution can use this in court to help them convict him. Also one of the ten commandments states Thou shalt not kill. This is Gods Words not mine.
To kill another human being does not sound like Gods plan as Zimmerman states, this sounds more like the devil's plan. The Devil wants use to hate each other and kill each other If he wants to call the Devil his God thats fine. Thats what the devil wants. If Zimmerman said it was Gods plan then you can't argue that Sept, 1, 2001 was Gods plan You don't believe that and nor do I. Sept 1, 2001 was not Gods plan but the devils plan. I grew up going to church every Sunday and I went to Sunday school, took the communion and never once have I heard about God wanting us to kill someone else. I was taught that God was a loving, forgiving God and not to be tempted by the devil. When Zimmerman get convicted the procescution can tell him IT WAS GODS PLAN.
I think he said that he DID follow T. but stopped after the 911 operator SUGGESTED that it was no longer necessary.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
You can say its the OT so therefore it doesn't count but it's still the same god and this god commanded people to kill their family if they worship another god.
For god so loved the world that he said "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground; man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them."
John 3:16, Gen 6:7
"thou shalt not kill" Exodus 20:13
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death."
According to the bible, which Christians are not typically well versed in, it is your deity who created evil.
Isaiah 45:7 -> I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Christianity is just one, of many mythologies, created by man.
God did not create evil, just like light does not create darkness. The absense of something does not mean that the something condones the absense.
God is not real. God is based off blind faith, which in turn has no logic. Thus one can conclude that something based on faulty logic is in error and must be discarded as unreasonable and useless. I'm sorry if I offend, however your logic is futile and must be seen as little more than self pontification in a unreasonable ideology. Logic and reason are the only truths. Everything else is secondary and should be judged as so.
Can you prove love exists by science? Your mother could have been faking it. But those of us who feel love know it exists even if we cannot prove it to others. Just like we know God is real. It seems to me the most important parts of our lives are not touched by the "science" of man.
I suppose that Aristotle's concept of the Unmoved Mover–the First Cause–was derived outside of his own reason and logic? I suppose that the Catholic notion of God–based heavily on the works of Aristotle–is all derived from some ignorant bliss of an uncaused universe void of any reason and structure? I would urge you to take a freshman-level philosophy course, John.
How come people always say it is not in god's plan when some nutcase does something like this? For one, god seems fully capable of such terrible things (just read the bible). How do you know enough of god's plan to know that this is not the actual plan? Oh yea, its only god's plan when something nice happens or when it happened in the bible (in which case it can be bad and people don't seem to mind).
geez...talk about drinking the kool-aid of modern thought. Plenty of non-Christian philosophers have blown your "faith" in reason and logic away a long time ago...
acutabove:
Seriously? That is the extent of your argument? You are aware that feelings of love can be repeatably measured in a lab setting, right? There is an initial surge of dopamine, followed by a flood through the brain's neurotransmitters of two key hormones - oxytocin and vasopressin that cause feelings of strong, emotional bond.
It seems to me that any one who actually claims to know enough of god's plan must be drinking alot of cool-aid. My point being why should a priest know anymore about god than say .. Zimmerman? Reading a book and talking to other like-minded people here on earth can not possibly get you any insight into a god who is supposedly outside of time and space (al creationists like to say).
Philosophy does indicate that there is no reason to believe in a god.
These neurotransmitters are secreted by our bodies true but they are transmitted by our perceptions and not necessarily by reality. Does darkness exist? It is only the absense of light. Does evil exist? It is only the absense of goodness.
"O ye of little faith." You're not offending anyone but yourself. You are missing out on so much spiritual joy.
Ah yes.... ignorance is bliss!
I never planned on going to Bible study in this Blog. Am I in the right forum?
You're in the religion section. Bible is part of religion, hence the Bible-talk.
Your God can see into the future. Your GOD also created Satan. So God saw into the future, knowing what Satan would become, but still created him. Now you want to absolve God of all responsibility. If I make shotgun, I load the shotgun, I point it out of a car window, and pull the trigger, can I claim "well each pellet had free will I created the shotgun with a conscience". Christians are horrible people.
Think of CNN as a library, this is the "fiction" section.
God did not create evil, but He does allow it as an alternative to Him. This is the nature of free-will. It is the sinful nature of mankind that denies God.
@acut. God lets bad people kill at will.
The devoted say it’s because of “free will”.
Then why do they pray, and pray, and pray?
For god to help them, day after day?
They pray to god to improve their fate
Their own free will they ask god to negate
“Free will” for us all…, from the god of peace!
Who sends us to hell for a wrong belief.
Free will is a literal impossibility with an all-knowing all-powerful deity. It cannot happen. The logic is just so obvious there.
I frequently know that my child will do something he is not supposed to BEFORE he even knows he has the option. But I let him go his own way. That is free will and Not a self contradiction.
@Acuta
First off, knowing that your child will do something bad is an as.sumption, you know that he/she will get in trouble because it's bound to happen. God *knowing* that someone was going to kill someone else that was completely unjustifiable is something else entirely. Furthermore, if you know what your kid is going to would you not try to stop him or her? What about punishment afterwards? Do you lock them away in their room and punish them for that act for the rest of their lives or do you use it as a teaching moment to help them grow because one day they'll be adults?
God does the whole punishment for eternity thing AND also precludes the entire idea of man ever "growing up" which is why your whole "parent/child" analogy to god/man doesn't really make sense or hold water.
Many parents know their kids, and can predict 2 minutes ahead, but you are not an all-powerful deity are you? Do you know what your kid will do in 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours and 21 minutes? No, you don't.
I might not stop my child from doing something wrong for many reasons. Experiense is a great teacher, if he sees that I was right this time he will believe me quicker next time, and I will be raised up in his appreciation. Even though I am not all-knowing, we are all somewhat similar to God having been made in His image.
@Acuta
Experience IS a great teacher, in moderation. If you see your kid go bike riding without kneepads even though he/she knows what could happen (scra.ped knees). Fine, they won't know until they experience that. However, your own wording betrays you. You MIGHT not stop a certain experience from happening BUT sometimes you will, am I right? So far god is pretty much 0 for 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 when it comes to stopping events hei.nous enough that they should probably be stopped instead of letting that person "experience" it.
Ya dig?
"It’s based on this idea of an absolute powerful God who always gets what he wants. When we read the Scriptures, we find out God doesn’t always get what he wants. He’s disappointed and upset when things go wrong,” he said. I find this quote to be fundamentally wrong. Nothing goes wrong for God, He isn't surprised or blindsided when things go "wrong". God always gets what He wants, He orchestrates everything, big or small, in our lives, and to say things go contrary to God's plan flies in everything the Bible states about Him. If things went contrary to what God set in motion, how could one deem Him omnipotent? Mr. Reese, you are incorrect in your definition of God. Yes, this whole event is a tragedy, for both parties, the Martin's and the Zimmerman's, but to say God is caught by surprise or doesn't always get what He wants flies in everything that Christianity states.
So you're saying your god orchestrates the agonizing death by famine of 19 million children under the age of 5 around the world each year? Children who, also according to your god, are destined for eternal damnation because, through no fault of their own, they were born into a part of the world that does not embrace the correct religious philosophy? That is terrifying. Are you a crazy person?
I too took issue with that part of what he said, but what do you expect from a Catholic?
Julian
You fail to realize that God is the creator, we are the creation. What right does any of us have to question God? He answers to no one and to think we have the right to hold Him accountable is absurd. You are putting God into a box defined by yourself, when He exists out of our capability to reason and understand due to the fact He is God and we are finite beings created by a infinitely wise and all powerful God who owes us no reason for what He does or will do.
God "orchestrates" the universe. The problem is that ever since the fall, the orchestra has been missing some of its better musicians, who were replaced by a whole lot of lousy ones.
Julian.. you're getting it. See, logic isn't that hard to understand, is it? If everything is "god's will", then yes all those children dying ARE part of the plan, and so is their eternal damnation. And this is a role model for a billion people?
Julian
Also, you overlook the fact that not one of us is "innocent" before God. We fall infinitely short of His requirements, whether we are children or adults. You are looking at God from your view and you cannot do that because then you will make a god in your image who actually has to answer to you for his actions, and that is not the God of the universe and the God who exists.
God "orchestrates", i.e., conducts.
In this case, the conductor doesn't hire, or test beforehand the musicians.
God is perfect, never makes a mistake.
He tested mankind with a talking snake.
Things didn’t work out like he originally planned.
He decided to change his religious brand.
He killed his son to “save” mankind.
From the curse and wrath of his self centered mind.
Now we have hell for those who doubt.
To give fairy tale salesmen a lot more clout.
"God" proved his own incompetence as a supreme being in Genesis, when he told Adam "I called for you and could not find you". If "god" was truly all powerful and all knowing, he would have known Adam was hiding and where he was hiding. Since "god" did not know and had to ask, that speaks for itself doesn't it?
God lets bad people kill at will.
The devoted say it’s because of “free will”.
Then why do they pray, and pray, and pray?
For god to help them, day after day?
They pray to god to improve their fate
Their own free will they ask god to negate
“Free will” for us all…, from the god of peace!
Who sends us to hell for a wrong belief.
You either believe God is all powerful or not. He is, and no matter what you say contrary to that does not change the fact that He is.
Jimsole,
Your god doesn't exist. You're delusional. It is as simple as that. There is no point arguing with the circular logic of blind faith.
B4.. but your great "conductor" is supposed to know who is good and who isn't even before they are born. There should be no need to "test" beforehand, your god should already know. Your "god" has more than a few sour notes on his sheet music.
And what do you base your belief in that there is no God? You should sure hope you're right, because if not, you're in for one big surprise the moment you die.
Mirosal, I frequently ask questions of my children that I already know the answer to. and for lots of reasons. Such as to strike up a conversation or to see how they will answer. I am pretty sure I exist too!
@jimsole
You said, "You either believe God is all powerful or not. He is, and no matter what you say contrary to that does not change the fact that He is."
Do you have any evidence to back up your outrageous, even ludicrous, claims?
Without evidence, your imaginary friend isn't any more likely to exist than the Tooth Fairy. Even Santa Claus is far more likely to exist.
I don't need to prove God's existence. Creation speaks for itself, that God exists, it's human arrogance that believes otherwise.
jimsole,
Sorry to revert to cliche, but it seems to be necessary here navigating this circular logic you're throwing down.
Prove to me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist! Prove to me that Zeus doesn't exist! Prove to me that the monkey god Hanuman doesn't exist! See what I'm doing there?
@mirosal: Actually the sheet music is the best possible, but as i said, the musicians (us) are lousy.
Oh and btw, you misquoted Genesis while ago.
Jimsole ... yes, you do. You are the one making the claim, so show us empirical evidence that backs up your claim, using standard established rules of evidence. That's all we ask. That's it. Should be easy for you, right? just because we exist, this planet exists, the stars exist, does NOT mean there is a "god" of any kind. So what evidence do you have?
Until you show me undeniable proof that they don't exist, they obviously do. So, obviously, one day (hopefully a long time from now) you will die and the Flying Spaghetti Monster will force you into damnation and fire for all of eternity.
@jimsole
You said, "I don't need to prove God's existence."
True, you are not required to prove anything. You couldn't if you tried. Just don't expect anyone with an ounce of sense to believe it exists.
You said, "Creation speaks for itself, that God exists, it's human arrogance that believes otherwise."
Believing without any evidence in support, and even in spite of all evidence against, in a bullshit creation story is human ignorance.
What you consider "creation", in no way even suggests a creator.
B4, what do you want, word for word? Adam hid, "god" couldn't find him ... "god" is not all knowing then is he? As far as sheet music, it's sh!t music. Your "god" needs to find other players. Maybe on one of the other billion or so planets throughout this galaxy? If the music is played that bad, the audience leaves, the musicians are fired, and the conductor is disgraced. The composer's reputation is forever tarnished, and he'll never have the prestige he once had. Looks like your "god" is tarnished and his rep is shot, never to be held in high esteem again.
One crack in the existence of god. So you say god created the earth and heavens in 6 days. So that was 6000 years ago? (nothing in the bible says the earth is 6000 years old, just ignorant people's interpretation). So what is the speed of light and how far could something move at the speed of light? If you think the universe is around 6000 light years across, you will have to say maybe god did not create everything when you find something say ... 10 billion light years away? Nothing goes faster than the speed of light ..... even god!
LinCA, Christians do not need to prove God exists. But man's "proof" is not the end-all. Even our science is constantly being revised as old 'proofs' become disproven. But proving to the unbeliever would be like a naked man who steps back in time proving to anancient Greek that the world is round when that man would say only an idiot would say that because he can see it is flat. How does science say the universe was created when nothing can come from nothing nor change unless acted upon? How could life evolve beyound molecules when the mechanisms for evolution require cell, DNA, RNA, etc. And Why would 2 molecules 'evolve' when there can be no benefit to there being 2 molecules together than appart. Your science IS mostly faith but faith in man.
b4, take a college class in orchestration. It is not the same as conducting. A conductor is not the same as an orchestrator.
ACUT... just FYI, the ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round, they saw the shadows during solar and lunar eclipses. They just had no idea how bog around it is. And as far as molecules, you do know that molecules are combinations of atoms, right? always bonding, and forming new things.
No they don't ... or should I say they won't .. or more accurately ... they CAN'T. Proof would ACTUALLY be the end-all. Given proof, I would think most people would change their ways. Proof, not a blurry picture ... Science constantly revises things when more is learned. Christians, Jews, Islamic, continually ignore things if they contradict their preconceived ideas. Science is not faith. If it is unknown, we say UNKNOWN.
Tom Tom ... you're as'suming that B4 finished high school. That's up for debate lol
It's not much of a debate if the moron doesn't know the difference between orchestrating and conducting. 😉
probably wouldn't know a bass clef from a treble clef, a sharp from a flat, or a half note from a full rest.
I'd be shocked if he could even tell a flute from a bassoon unless one or the other was stuck up his fundament.
If you're going to go THAT route, go all out. I recommend either a tuba or a sousaphone 🙂
Are you a member of the SPANISH INQUISITION, Mirosal???
Maybe in a past life I was lol ... or maybe I was an SS officer, or in charge of a Soviet gulag. Hey, if you're going to make a point, MAKE A POINT lol 😉
NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
😉
I was sittin in chickens and looking through their picking when suddenly these guys break down my valls! I didn't even know them and they hurt me and they started playing ping pong with my balls! Oy the agony! OO the shame! To make my privates public in a game?!
(Name the movie!)
History of the World Part 1 ... the inquisition, here we go, the inquisition what a show
You win. I hadda look it up. 'History of the World", right?
Crap! Mirosal beat me to it!
DING DING DING! JOHNNY .... TELL EM WHAT THEY WON!
@acutabove
You said, "Christians do not need to prove God exists."
Keep telling yourself that. You couldn't if you tried. There is no evidence to be found. All you have is an ancient fairy tale on which you rest your entire conviction.
You said, "But man's "proof" is not the end-all. Even our science is constantly being revised as old 'proofs' become disproven."
You're not a scientist, I see.
You said, "How does science say the universe was created when nothing can come from nothing nor change unless acted upon?"
Where did you get your science education? In bible study? Aside from the fact that your premise is incorrect, matter and antimatter spontaneously generate from "nothing", just because you reject rational explanations doesn't mean that your fairy tale has any value.
Even if there is no scientific explanation for a particular phenomenon, that doesn't mean that an irrational god story suddenly has any value. Before your infantile creation story has any value, you will have to establish that there is a creature tat you claim is responsible. Your refusal, or inability, to rationally evaluate your own bullshit, doesn't make it true. Odds are, the Tooth Fairy also doesn't exist.
You said, "Your science IS mostly faith but faith in man."
Your ignorance is showing. You should really take a science class.
I suspect this will be a futile effort, but let me see if I can dumb it down enough for you to grasp the basics. Science relies on phenomena being repeatable. Science describes the phenomena as they are repeatedly observed. It tries to explain the mechanisms that cause the observed phenomena and make predictions based on that explanation. Science relies on repeated testing to build statistical confidence that the proposed theory describes the observed and predicted phenomena accurately. Science describes nature but it never claims to be the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Science will always adjust as new evidence becomes available. Just because the theory of relativity changed how science views gravity, time and space, doesn't means Newton's work is "wrong". It simply means that Newton's laws can't be infinitely scaled. They simply don't describe higher order effects. Within their bounds, Newton's laws very accurately describe how things work.
It never ceases to amaze me some believers rail against science as if it is somehow evil, yet mindlessly use the fruits of scientific progress. They live in air-conditioned homes where they watch TV. They drive their cars, or horse-drawn buggies, to church. Most will rely on modern medicine to heal them when they are sick or injured. They will rant and rave on the internet that they access from a computer or a smart-phone.
If they really despise science so much, they shouldn't use so much of it. Better go back to living in a cave.
Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr. , Trayvon Martin.. they all stood their ground. Get to the back of the bus, shut up about having a dream, and make sure you're not wearing a hoodie. Or we'll just declare open season on your black azz. This country makes me sick.
Rosa Parks and the King has nothing to do with Trayvon except they are all Black!
I think most murders by AfricanAmericans are done by other AfricanAmericans. They sure are racists. Also the median age at death in Africa is far lower than in the good ole USA. Minorities live longer here than anywhere else in the world. Perhaps if you are feeling really sick you should try living somewhere else!
Thank you Jonathan Adams.
Martin Luthor King would be ashamed of the Martin family. Trayvon stood his ground. Just like the thug playing the knock out game in Chicago who killed that disabled Hispanic father of 12 & posted it on facebook. Martin did not have any right to attempt murder by sucker punching, pinning & bashing someone's head. The Martins raised a violent criminal who chose the wrong victim.
God gives us choice. Trayvon made a lot of bad choices. He could have turned the other cheek, gone home, & lived, so Trayvon was not playing by the rules of the God his mother claims. He was daring the devil by being a thug & lost. The Martins want blood. They are determined to have it, not justice.
These people are nothing like the civil rights greats who would definitely not have pursued this witch hunt.
What, exactly, was Martin doing when Zimmerman confronted him? Was he in the midst of committing a crime? Trespassing?
Why carefully consider or judge your own actions when you can pawn them off on the invisible monster Yahweh? Religious people leave me so disheartened and confused...
Everyone is responsible or their own actions. Just because God knows something will happen does not mean He is not dissappointed when they do. We who are parents can understand this. Our evils=sins WILL be judged and punished unless covered up by the sacrifice of Jesus. But only IF you accept Him as Savoir and Lord. Does this clear things up for you any?
Absolutely not. In fact, it only leaves me more confused. If your god knows something terrible is going to happen and does not stop it, he is either impotent or evil.
Your list of possibilities is limmited to only 2? Let me suggest a third. God knows evil will happen and does nothing to stop it (I agree) but even though I cannot understand the entire mind of God, perhaps He values free-will and the comin of believers to faith above what the unbelievers can ever do. There are other options I can think of just out of hand but I don't really expect anyone to come to God who is not called first. Perhaps if you are eveer called then your confusion will disappear.
Pretty convenient if you ask me. God created me with pre-loaded sin ... and oh yea has the "answer" by giving us Jesus to forgive our sins? hmmm. And although I do believe that we all are responsible for our own actions, that is not the point here. Zimmerman said it was god's plan. Therefore he had no choice. Do you want to say that it could not possibly be god's plan. How do you know? Really ... how? Maybe Trevon was going to do something bad in the future, and god got rid of the bad apple through the martyr known as Zimmerman . Just saying .... we don't know what god has in plan for us.
I do not agree that Z should be saying things like that because it is impossible for any man to know the whole mind or plan of God.
Sure! Trayvon's dad do worship a different God because that god did not saved his son from death but George's god did.
Whats that website where I can make a donation for Zimmerman?
I doubt anyone will accept Monopoly bucks or wooden nickels, bozo.
They both worship the same one. Mrs Martin is just deluded into thinking she speaks for him
And you think you do? What a fvckin' moron.
Trayvon stood his ground. If I was walking along minding my own business and some stranger followed me.. i went left.. so did the SUV.. i walked right.. so did the SUV.. i left the sidewalk, the guy in the SUV got out and followed me.. didn't identify himself.. yeah he's going to get popped in the mouth. George Zimmerman is a coward with a gun. Watch the interview he looks and sounds like a momma's boy. Procecute this man for killing a HERO.
Prosecute the man for killing a thug? ya right. One less robbery, thief, troublemaker off the street!
You're an ass hole.
Are you sure Martin was not playing the knock out game like those teenage kids in Chicago who killed their victim? The evidence is there for it. Aside from the shot that killed him, Martin had only OFFENSIVE abrasions & bruising on his knuckles. Zimmerman had numerous DEFENSIVE wounds. George even tried screaming for help when he was unable to get Trayvon off him. Pinned down with no other way to stop the attack what would you do? Allow a person bigger & heavier than you to continue an attempt to kill you?
Mr Martin Chose his own demise. He evaded Mr Zimmerman, but chose to track the man down. He also chose to attack Mr Zimmerman rather than converse in a civil fashion. He chose to pin Mr Zimmerman down & continue beating him rather than stop, even though his victim yelled for help. Mr Martin had avenues for retreat he CHOSE to ignore.
Don't attempt to impersonate an attorney, dumbfvck.
However, you do an excellent job of impersonating a houseplant.
The shooting of a man in his own home, because the Police got the wrong address should have more weight than this case.
I'm sorry If the young man was shot by some scared man, it's bad situation for everyone. Nobody should have to die by someone's judgment unless it is in a court of law, or by the Lord Himself.
I will look to the facts of this case and make an intelligent judgement as I'm sure you all will make for yourselves.
Look for Zimmerman to try and get a plea deal before this goes to trial. The evidence just isn't there to jusitfy self-defense with a deadly weapon. His head wasn't being smashed in, look at the injury report and he has no verscity now.
He had a fracture to the face that proves an assault capable of breaking bone. The prosecution's case has been further weakened by the death of that Hispanic man who was sucker punched in Chicago by a 16 year old for a "knock out" game popular among those of Trayvon's age. The defense will point out the similarities in the two cases to show an assault of that type has been proven deadly. It is powerful evidence to support George's claim that he was afraid of being killed.
If the attorney does any such thing he's a bigger moron than you are.
If Trayvon's parents had done a good job raising him, Trayvon would not have been suspended from school which would mean that he would not have been with his dad since his mom had to go work and didn't want to leave him alone at home to go out and hang in the streets and get more marijuana. Yes, it's a sad story, but it's all a chain reaction that should never have happened if the first domino would have stayed up.
What utter BS, bla bla bla...
You're saying that any kid who gets suspended is worthy of death, and that death is the fault of those raising the kid. That's some fvcked up logic you have, there.
Were you a perfect teenager Al? Trayvon got suspended from school over another heavily controversial issue. So freaking what if the typical teenager has an empty baggy with pot residue...it proves only that he is a kid, not a monster. His suspension has nothing to do with whether or not his parents were good people...plenty of good parents see their children smoke pot every day (as much as the two are not inclusive...look at the teenage pregnancy rate in the States and know that plenty of those kids come from extremely good homes...point being that you can not lay this on the parents...teenagers will always do their own thing).
The only fact that really matters here is whether or not Zimmerman was justified in killing an unarmed teenager who was very apparently minding his own business (as is evident from the 9-1-1 call). Had Zimmerman not started to follow Trayvon, none of this would have happened and we wouldn't be sitting here today discussing it.
Another idiot who thinks a parent can control all things by doing "a good job". You obviously either 1) have no children, or at least not any that have reached adulthood, or 2) have been incredibly lucky thus far. There are NO guarantees in parenting kids, dear. One can be an exemplary parent and raise a kid who becomes a criminal, a drop-out, a drug addict. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
If it was "god's will" as he stated, then why isn't "god" charged with being an accomplice or co-conspirator? If "god" was involved like Zimmerman says "he" is, then "god" needs to be charged as well, and suffer the same fate. Well, how 'bout it?