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July 19th, 2012
07:55 AM ET
Zimmerman: Shooting 'God's plan'By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - It was "God's plan" that brought together George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin in a fatal confrontation in February, Zimmerman told Fox News host Sean Hannity Wednesday in his first television interview. Zimmerman, 28, has been charged with second-degree murder for shooting Martin in what he says was self-defense. Martin was unarmed when he was killed while walking back to his father's girlfriend's house in a gated residential area of Sanford, Florida. Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty and has been free on $1 million bail since early July. Zimmerman, who said he routinely carried a gun except when he was at work, told Hannity he didn't regret deciding to follow Martin that night, after deciding the teen was acting suspiciously, and he didn't regret having a gun. "Do you feel you wouldn't be here for this interview if you didn't have that gun?" Hannity asked. "No, sir," Zimmerman responded. "You feel you would not be here?" Hannity pressed. "I feel it was all God's plan and for me to second guess it or judge it..." Zimmerman said, pursing his lips and shaking his head. The 17-year-old victim's father didn't agree with Zimmerman's claim. "We must worship a different God because there is no way that my God would have wanted George Zimmerman to kill my teenage son," Tracy Martin said in a statement after Zimmerman's interview was broadcast. CNN's Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the big stories There's an old joke about a Christian who falls down a flight of stairs and then says, "Thank God that's over." For some Christians, there is a belief that God is in control of everything in their lives, good and bad, from finding a parking space close to the grocery store to the death of a loved one.
“What's particularly striking to me in this instance,” Carr told CNN, was that “George Zimmerman is attributing something he did to God’s plan.” “It's one thing to attribute a natural disaster to God’s plan to try and make sense of the world,” he said. “It’s another thing to justify something you did as God’s plan. That’s taking it to another level.” “That lets you off the hook, but I think it can look to other people as a pretty transparent attempt at self-justification,” Carr added. Carr is an expert on the Hebrew Bible, which Christians call the Old Testament. “One thing that strikes me about many of the narratives in the Old Testament is there are so many places where characters think they know what God is up to, but we know because of the narrator in the story, they’re wrong.” “So the Bible speaks to the human misperception of what God is doing.” Zimmerman and his family were longtime members at the All Saints Catholic Church in Manassas, Virginia. "George grew up in Manassas and was active in the church during his youth as an altar server and evening receptionist in the office," Pastor Bob Cilinski of All Saints told CNN in March. "The Zimmerman family were known and respected in the community for their dedication and service." Despite his Catholic upbringing, some say that that on this point of theology, Zimmerman may be out of step with Catholic teaching. “God didn’t make us robots, he didn’t make us puppets,” said Father Tom Reese, a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University. “A key part of God’s plan is giving us freedom to make decisions. Sometimes those decisions are good and sometimes those decisions are bad," Reese said, explaining the Catholic teaching on the concept of free will. "Obviously, not everything we do is part of God’s plan. Because sometimes we sin and that certainly is not part of God’s plan. It’s contrary to what God wants." Reese said Zimmerman's sentiment is not an uncommon one among Christians. But the idea of a God who controls everything down to the last detail strikes Reese as an idea closer to Greek mythology than the God described in the Bible. "It’s based on this idea of an absolute powerful God who always gets what he wants. When we read the Scriptures, we find out God doesn’t always get what he wants. He’s disappointed and upset when things go wrong,” he said. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter “I think there’s an important insight that these people have, that is when things do go bad, when they go contrary to God’s plan, he can still make good things happen as a result," Reese said. “When these terrible things happen, God can inspire people to respond to them with courage and compassion so that something positive can come out of something very negative," he added. "But it wasn’t part of God’s plan that this guy got killed. We can’t excuse what we do by saying that’s God’s plan.” Both Carr and Reese were careful to say they were not commenting on the legal aspects of the case and noted that Zimmerman's guilt or innocence should be left up to the courts. One thing Reese said Zimmerman did get right in the interview was apologizing and praying for the Martin family. "I'm sorry they had to bury their child," Zimmerman told Hannity. "I pray for them daily." soundoff (1,528 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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When things go horribly awry, it's not uncommon for people to look to God as the one who drew up the plan, says David M. Carr, professor of Old Testament at Union Theological Seminary.
I feel like this right Is right & wrong Is wrong, Trayvon was a Child & He was walking down the Street, with A hoodie A bag of Skittles & A can Of Ice Tea, & I feel like Zimmerson, probably was on some kind of drugs are have some kind of problem, because that Child was walking & minding His own business, Zimmerson Is not no Police Office so therefore He should have not approached that Kid, He suppose to be a grown a** man & then He was armed, He probably had the gun out when He approached Trayvon & that Kid was probably so afraid, that's why He was heard screaming for help, & His evil self probably attack that child & that child was probably trying to fight him off & lost his life, it is so sad for that child life to be taking, Zimmerson was wrong & he know he was, don't try to say God told him to do such thing, his evil a** mind told him to do that, I feel he doesn't like blacks & Trayvon was black & walking in the Neighbor, which Zimmerson think he own's, He was wrong for taking that child life & that's all to it, plank blank & it should be eating him up, appoligizing for what he don't mean it, he just want the Family to feel like he sorry, he's not sorry for what he did, what if that was his Son are one of yall Son;s how would Yall feel!!!
"I'm sorry they had to bury their child," Zimmerman told Hannity. "I pray for them daily." They wouldn't have to bury their child, if the monster didn't kill their child. I would not want this man to pray for me nor my family, because of how he believes. He may be praying to the wrong GOD. To let this man walk FREE, its just ABSURD and UNREALISTIC. If the court really believes that it was Gods plan for Zimmerman to kill this innocent child, their is something wrong with american people and this country as a nation. We all should pray for justice to be served, so Trayvon can rest in Peace.
I don't know what kind of God He serves it's just unbelievable for him to say such a thing, Zimmermen is was wrong & he know he was, how can he live with his self, knowing he killed that child for nothing, took that child away from hi Family, then the police told him not to follow that child & he did things on his own will, who he think he is!!!
Fred
Mat 7:6 "Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.
Yes, please, don't waste time on us pigs. I wish all fanatics would follow that advice. Thank You!
Second that. I'd love it if I never saw another post from fred or HS or just lyin.
..WE ARE NOT PERMITTED TO NEGLECT!
..What did you neglect?
ZIMMERMAN WILL BURN IN HELL!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dliYX-DHntg&feature=relmfu
The christians say "Look at the design of an eye, look how beautiful and perfect it is, so there must be a creator who made such a perfect thing". Well, that same "Creator" also created the Loa Loa worm. This worm targets the human eye and eats them from the inside out permanently blinding the victim. Your God is certainly a wonderful being.
Two questions will undo your religion. Answer these truthfully:
1) Can God see into the future?
2) Did God create Satan?
The answer to both is yes. So, God knowingly created evil and unleashed it on mankind, with full forethought and knowledge of what would happen because he was able to see into the future and knew that Satan would rebel and would lead man to sin.
Yes, your god is certainly a wonderful being.
His plan is way beyond our simple minds. He is allowing Satan to have his way with us TEMPORARILY only. This earthly life is but a relatively brief part of our journeys.
@Steve
And why would he need to allow satan to do anything? What's the point? If this life is so temporary, then it's a worthless ecistence, and an infentesimal blip.
So, Steve, basically you're saying God is a great big kitty and we are just his favorite toy. And you know what cats do to their catch, right?
hawaiiguest
You are starting to see the light! life is so short that relative to eternity that follows any pain, pleasure of this existence is a blip (less than blip because a blip is noticeable). That is the divine design and all your moaning about a bad wicked God who allows pain amounts to nothing. Like a nose freeze if you eat your pineapple sorbet to fast was as if it never happened a few minutes latter. This is why Gods perspective trumps mans perspective.
fred, you're incredibly dense. Did you not read the bit about the suffering of a child? What just and merciful being would visit such pain on an innocent kid?
If that's the sort of fairy you want to worship, go right ahead. I won't.
Tom Tom
Do you have a better plan that would allow those who actually prefer eternity with God to reveal their destiny? Do you have a better plan that would allow those who like Adam and Eve have desires other than eternal awe for God to reveal their eternal destiny?
@fred
I was hoping someone would take this tact. So tell me, in comparrison, this life being so insignificant, why would any system that is supposedly just determine your fate for eternity based on your thoughts from such an insignificant amount of time?
Tom Tom
If we are speaking about God then we should stick with what we know about God. God said I will wipe away every tear. God will wipe away the childs tear so, what’s your beef now?
I don't give a ripe sh!t what your god "said" since he didn't SAY it to this kid, or to anyone else I know who has suffered and died in terrible agony.
What "plan" do you pretend in your crazy head to think some fairy has? Are you daft? There's no friggin' 'plan'.
hawaiiguest
God is outside of time so time is not the issue for God but it is for you. You count the days perhaps moments because your time is limited. Whatever that span of time is will be more that sufficient for your true soul to be revealed. Not to God as God knows your soul and needs no revelations. Life was created for your benefit not God’s and you can do what you will with what God has given you.
@fred
What the hell kind of non-answer was that? If a soul has a specific nature, and your god knows it, then putting in a meat skin and giving it pain, suffering, age, and everything else is completely pointless.
Tom Tom
The plan is the creation of a place where beings in the image of God can bask in the eternal goodness of their creator. God is eternal goodness and in that image all are one. Just as Christ said “so that you can be one with the Father as I am one”.
Blah, blah y blah, yet more drivel from freddy. Not a word of that post made even the slightest sense.
hawaiiguest
You continue to assume that God operates in the same 4 dimensions we do. Scientists do not argue about causation being outside our known dimension (if there is causation). When God knows your soul he knew it before you were born because God is not limited to our known reality. Beginnings and ends are not relevant to God from a time perspective. You move in your time line and space say 120 years while eternal God sees all in a timeless instant.
This is not pointless because you could be like the criminal on the cross that said only with his dying breath “remember me” and Christ said today you will be with me in heaven. The other mocker next to Christ revealed his hateful soul yet Christ said nothing because that man will face judgment. God knew Christ would die and resurrect yet that certainly was not a meaningless event.
Tom Tom
Your reading comprehension is much greater than that as the post made sense you simply reject the truth.
Let me rephrase. God so loved the world He gave his only son that none should perish but all enjoy eternal life. Jn 3:16
Now, in the beginning God separated the light from the darkness. How about that plan? Goodness is separated from evil for eternity. Do you have a problem with that plan? Do you have a better plan? I suspect you take issue with the details of Gods plan such as how does Gods plan jive with my plan! Your plan is not Gods plan as common man cannot even figure out the origin of life yet alone creating origin.
@fred
It still wouldn't matter where your god is if it is all knowing and all powerful. If it knows beforehand, then it can take action whenever it wants to within time. At the most extreme, the god would be able to see everything that would happen from creation to the end, and be able to just set up everything as it would be at the end in the beginning, forgoing what intermediary. Afterall, why would something that doesn't take time as we do care whether or not time happened in the first place?
@fred
Wow, I didn't expect that from you fred. You conveniently forgot to mention in the light and darkness thing that immediately afterward that he supposedly named the light "day" and the darkness "night". It was not referring to good and evil, as you said it was. And then go off on a tangent with a completely wrong beginnning.
fred, don't even bother. I'm so far beyond you and your silly beliefs.
You are a simpleton.
Hawaiiguest
God did forgo the intermediary it is you and I who exist in the intermediary. If you need some help with that there are those who see the flood story as Gods overview of our existence. Noah who finds favor with God is with God while the rest of life is blotted out (Hebrew word actually used in Genesis. That existence was washed away as if it never was. Goodness separated from evil for eternity. Now, I am not saying this is all there is to the flood story just one aspect.
We are speaking of God not Christ, the Father or the Holy Spirit at the moment. God is apart from time so time to care or time happened in the first place would not compute. God simply is. Gods exact words were tell them “I AM” sent you. I AM is without time. The essesence of God is goodness and holiness. That goodness simply is and is timeless. That goodness flows and cannot be touched by evil or darkness (otherwise not pure anymore) but radiates and becomes part of all that is good. Goodness was not about to stop simply because evil came into the world or man touched evil. Goodness continues to radiate eventually redeeming all that is good. In terms of the Bible we are covered by the goodness of Christ and it is in Christ that we unite with God (goodness)
Fred, did your sky fairy plan for Trayvon Martin to be shot by Zimmerman?
@fred
Wow you said a whole lot of nothing in that second paragraph.
You know, I don't even know what you're trying to say or the point you're trying to make. You throw out a whole lot of assertions, and just keep going off n tangents that really lead nowhere, and just attempt to reassert your original premise.
Premise? Fred wouldn't know a 'premise' from his axx.
He's just spewing spaghetti and hoping some of it sticks to the wall.
Tom Tom
Here you go your new theme song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzntZLHcYy0
Thank you. I'm honored. It's a terrific and effective theme. Bravo!
What is sad is how little effort it requires to make people like you feel threatened.
Very funny Bob. There is truth in that.
TomTom
I would love to hear your plan of salvation. Oh, wait atheists do not think they need a plan because their view of life is simply organic. Nothing but organic matter and chemical reactions that will one day stop. Let me look at the science behind that one…………Oh my gold fish died and when I die we all sleep with the fishes. I see nothing before my goldfish came into the world and nothing after he went belly up so there must be nothing before or after. My goldfish had purpose and meaning in that little jar and so I have purpose and meaning in this big jar I live. Yep, my understanding of existence certainly has a leg up on those old sheephearders!
Tom how much did you pay him?? you know your husband to marry you of course or did you just pull a dominatrix routine on him I cant imagine it will last unless he is a wimp.
GOD also created Free Will. Zimmerman had a choice. The police specifically told Zimmerman not to follow Travon. Zimmerman didn't listen.He chose to follow and harass this innocent child and he killed him in cold blooded murder. Had Zimmerman listened to the police and went back home, Trayvon would still be alive today.
Pay whom, Boob?
freddy, you're a hoot. "Sheephearders"? Do you ever regret dropping out of high school?
Tom Tom
No God did not pull the trigger on Trayvon Martin. God is good and we can see that goodness radiate in Christ. The Glory of God is in the goodness and holiness that is God. You are correct in that the Bible is a simple story. It is the story of God redeeming a lost people.
Gods plan is very simple I am still waiting to hear your plan.
What is really amazing is how fixated Boob and his pals are. I'm apparently evil incarnate as far as they're concerned, the poor little pansies.
You guys are surely tough stuff. Satan must be quaking with fear at the thought of facing a couple of little old men who are afraid of a 50+-year-old woman who has osteoporosis.
Wow. I guess God Almighty better recruit some younger specimens.
Tom Tom
You really need to read your Bible. Jesus said the sheep heard the Sheppard’s voice. The plural past tense of “sheep heard” would be sheep hearders!
Plan? There IS NO PLAN, you idiot. Where do you get the idea that one exists, freddy? There's no grand plan or map or anything else. This is it.
Prove otherwise. Don't bother using the Babble. Unless you can provide corroborating evidence, the Babble is insufficient in this court.
Freddy while I agree with you on this, you do realize that you are going about this the wrong way right? Tom doesn't care in the least and if she can wind you up all the better, I would rethink this.
You are too funny. It's "shepherd" you idiot. Not "shepheard." You're so stupid it sits on you like a second skin, fred.
@fred
You're forgetting a very important distinction. Gods plan, according to your interpretation, is good, but that conflicts with many other denominations of christians, and you have no more evidence than they do that you're correct.
You are wrong. GOD created Lucifer, an angel who was beautiful, then that angel chose to sin against his creator and he was cast to the earth, he and his followers. He chose to become satan. Just as zimmerman chose to stalk, hunt and kill a kid on his way home with skittles and a iced tea. Man, chose to eat from that proverbial apple tree, good and evil. But the scriptures says that man could eat from every tree but that one, there was also in the Garden, the tree of life. Man chose to sin against God and thus, we die daily, we toil, we ache during child birth. That is the truth!! Thus the scriptures says that man was cast out of the garden before he could still eat from the tree of life and live forever!!!. Lucifer and Zimmerman along with mankind choose daily to sin against GOD. The wages of sin is Death. God cannot go against his own word, cause he is his word as in, his word was made manifest and we call him Yeshua Hamashiach!!! He even died for our sins and transgressions and we have a chance to still inherit everlasting life. How wonderful is our GOD, our AWESOME GOD. The only person who the STAND Your GRound Law applies to in this case was Treyvon!!! Not Zimmerman, he was stalking that kid!!! he murdered him in cold blood as Treyvon defended himself from this stranger stalking him. If zimmerman had did what he was told and not pursue the child, that boy would be with his family and zimmerman with hsi not about to stand trial for murder.
I can't help it. I'm just so tickled that someone thinks I'm as powerful and intimidating as Darth Vader!
Perfect ending to the week!
@chantayc
All you had was rabid blathering. Grats, you are irrelevant.
Hawaiiguest
There is a major difference between the Bible and all other religions/gods and it begins with creation. The Bible is the only one that gets the cosmology right and evolution right. Consider that the Bible claims God created the universe out of nothing. Your other man made religions claim their gods created with matter and or energy that already existed. We now know that the represenation in the Bible hits it and even though Hawking for example does all he can to refute a personal God he himself now speculates about spontaneous creation. The Bible is the only creation source that recognized that God is not of this space and time which also was only recently proven (science does not say “God” rather first cause cannot consist of matter or energy within the known boundaries of science). Saul of Tarsus used the same arguments against the Greek gods with the exception he did not know the science that now backs it all up.
When it comes to science the atheists like Lawrence Krause will make a case for no god needed and this will always be. What they cannot argue against is that the more we know about our universe the greater the unknown power around us becomes. This is the opposite of what a reasonable man would expect. What we are discovering is that our scientific explanations for causation is beginning to resemble the biblical model of a creator.
My question to Tom Tom also applies to your rejection of Gods plan. If you have a better plan then the simple one Christ lays out that separates goodness from evil forever I would really be interested.
Fred said. "We are speaking of God not Christ, the Father or the Holy Spirit at the moment".
They claim to be a monotheistic religion then say something like that.
@fred
The bibles creation story is ridiculous. For one, you continue to cite Hawking, but there is no scientific consensus that says the universe came from nothing. Second, the bible does not get evolution correct, as it begins with plants propogating with no sunlight. If you take day in the bible to mean day, then that would not be compatible with science, and if you took day to mean age, as some apologists do, then you have plants surviving without the sun on the face of the earth for a long time.
Then you have birds created without any mention of their evolutionary anscestors, not to mention before any land animals were created.
Fred, you were so freaking dishonest with your last post it's sickening. If you want to lie, then don't try it on me.
Hawaiiguest
As to nothingness: the Hawking-Turok model suggests that there was a spontaneous creation of an open, inflationary bubble universe from nothingness
As to creation: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (the Hebrew had no word for universe, heavens and earth translated all physical known matter). “God formed that which could be seen from that which could not be seen.
As to evolution: Water covered the earth and God separated the waters into the sky above and water below. God made man out of the dirt. Notice that man was made from what was “created” previously on the earth. Specific Biblical order: Heavens and the earth (our physical universe and matter within), let there be light (day 1), sky and oceans (day2), dry land plants (day 3), Sun, moon and planets (day 4), explosion of life (day 5) and man (day 6).
no problems here
As to ancestors of birds etc why would Moses bother to record that or better yet why would God bother Moses with such things? We are speaking about a symbolic picture language carried down orally for many generations. These first two chapters contain everything we need to know to date.
As to what is a day the bible says a day for God is not the same as day for us. It is very clear God is personal, made earth for man and man is to care for all of Gods creation until rest comes on the 7th day. Not sure what your issue is here. Seems you are doing what so many Christians do and that is make up stuff that is not in the Bible.
As to light for plants God said let there be light on the first day so again I don’t know what your issue is unless you assume our sun is a better light for plants than the light God was referring to . We do not know a lot about light source Moses referred to. Either way there was light if that is your question
@fred
Light and sunlight are two different things. The sun was not said to have been created until the next day, and that presents a problem. It also specifically says that sea animals and sky animals came about first, then land animals came about after that, which is not consistent with the evolutionary model.
And once again, why the fuck should I care what hypothesis Hawking is coming up with? Seriously, this is getting to the point of ad nauseum. Are you hoping that I just start ignoring it and you can continue using it to trick yourself into thinking I can't address a completely irrelevant fucking point?
hawaiiguest
The Hebrew for the light on day one was waves of light. Interesting that you would assume this light had some limitations you want to place on it but it is not the case. The Bible stands correct.
The Hebrew word for the light of the sun is a permanent light wave which is different. In addition the purpose of the sun was given as much more than just light. This light was our current sun.
The explosion of life on day 5 is not necessarily listed in order of creation that is your thought. There is great debate as some point to poetic form and many other things. There is no doubt the Bible got it right: plant, water life then everywhere else.
Gods plan is to create a place for any that want an eternity of goodness. I am not sure why you oppose that plan. You have not offered up a better plan that I can recall you just don’t like the plan that is in effect.
@fred
I'm going to say this just once, nicely. Do not inject the whole "plan" thing when it is no where near what we're actually talking about. It is useless, and merely shows your propensity for irrelevant tangents.
Back to what you said. So you're saying that sunlight existed before the sun did. Also, if it was meant to be an accurate account of creation, then poeticism, or anything else would not have been needed. You're merely just trying to explain away the problems with your assertion with illogical arguments.
hawaiiguest
I am not simply attempting to justify anything as to light waves vs. sun light. The Hebrew word used when God said let there be light is different than the Hebrew word for sun light. We also must take into consideration the exacting nature of the Hebrew which any reasonable person would conclude there is reason for such use of different words. As I mentioned the sun light was part of the detail description of the reason for the two bright lights.
The earth was dark and God said let there be light ….God called the light day ….and there was evening and morning the first day. There is your light before the sun in Genesis 1:2-5
Then we have the lights not only to light the earth but at night to again separate light from darkness on the 4th day in Genesis 1:14-19.
Sorry for the bad news but there is no light issue for plants in Genesis.
@fred
Well, you can say that, but you still have a problem with light being existent with no source for four "days" in the bible, until it states, quite clearly, that all the stars were created including the Sun, not to mention the Moon, which would mean some very strange things for the tides as well.
hawaiiguest
The first four days of Genesis have profound biblical relevance and deep meaning. It is a masterpiece of creation and redemption unmatched by any. Sorry you choose to reject the beauty and wonder of creation in favor of a harsh empty non belief that terminates in a void.
You are lost by seeing only the evil or skeptical reality of our world. Take your light issue which is really not about light required for photosynthesis rather light that illuminates God in Christ. Now, the Bible is Divine in that those that seek the truth find it and those that do not find what they are really looking for. The light source can be God or one of many other known forces 4 billion years ago. Those sources are not important to the story and are not included.
As to tides from the moon that was on the fourth day of creaton with water/ animal life beginning on the next day.
@fred
Go on tangents all you want, it doesn't make it any more logical. You are wrong, and all your rationalizations show is how willing you are to twist and turn to continue with beliefs that make no sense.
The whole "God has a plan and gave us free will" logic does nothing to explain the suffering of INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Imagine you had an ant farm, and you didn't feed 30% of the ants, and they starved to death, and the other ants fought mercilessly over the food in order to survive. This is the situation on Earth. Your "God" created a horribly inperfect situation in which humans run in circles around the planet, killing eachother and starving to death. Christians attempt to explain away the carnage by saying the "God has a plan and part of that is free will". BULL. What about the 5 year old girl who starves to death? What lesson did she need to learn? She lived for 5 short miserable years, and then died. Some divine plan you've got there. If your God exists, he's a sick one. Nothing can justify the suffering on innocent children. Your pathetic if you worship a God that allows such misery to continue when he has the supposed power to end all suffering. Are you trying to tell me that it's NECESARRY? That somehow we won't "value our existence or learn necesarry lessons" unless the world is screwed up and random?
"What about the 5 year old girl who starves to death? What lesson did she need to learn?"
Maybe God brought her out of this miserable earth realm out of His mercy??? Maybe He was/is trying to teach somebody else something through her??? Maybe the devil killed her??? You need to stop blaming somebody who you do not even believe exists.
@Steve
Hi Steve...
You Said to @Jon: "You need to stop blaming somebody who you do not even believe exists"
So, -Jon, apparently having an opinion, as a non-believer about believers thinking, beliefs, logic, etc... does not ent-i-tle him to voice his opinion ?
Peace...
What about the 5 year old girl who starves to death? What lesson did she need to learn?
I don't believe that's what I said. It's certainly not what I intended. I didn't mean that he *HAD* to think any certain why. I menat that he *SHOULD* becuse there is a lot more to it than he is considering.
So you're saying your god tortures children to teach a lesson to someone else?
You can have him.
@Steve
Hi Steve...
You Said to @Jon: "You need to stop blaming somebody who you do not even believe exists"
You Said: "I don't believe that's what I said."
Yep... it's what you said. Just take a look. 😯
You Said: " I didn't mean that he *HAD* to think any certain why. I menat(sic) that he *SHOULD* becuse there is a lot more to it than he is considering."
Basically, there is not a lot of difference in whether you were telling him he 'had' to think in a certain way or he 'should'....right ?
Either way, you are stating his opinion doesn't really matter because A)He is a non-believer... so his opinion doesn't count as he doesn't really know what he's talking about like the believers (you) do. B) You prove my point by stating "there is a lot more to it than he is considering." Which *means*... you think your 'beliefs' about the intangible world of a God are actually 'facts.'
Point being, -Steve... you list a lot of 'maybe's' about why God would allow the death of a 5-year old without 'any' factual evidence to a-s-s-ert your 'maybe's' have any relevance as 'facts.'
Regards,
Peace...
Again, we have a choice, we see that the child is starving, nobody in their right mind wants to see a child starve. You are right, we do live in an imperfect world, full of greed, hate, starvation, jealousy. But their is also loving, caring, thoughtful people out their that wants to change things for the best. We use the knowledge, gifts, talents, and resources that God gave us to change things. We want to help. If their is a child starving and we see that, its our responsibility as human beings to do what ever possible to care for that child and love that child. Whether we send money thorough donations, visit the country, or do whatever it takes possible to make sure the child is no longer suffering. Even prayer can change things. This world would be a better place if we all stand together as one nation and realize that its the little things we do can make a huge difference.
If he uses "gods plan" as a defense, this case could go on for years, because he should first have to prove that there is a god, and that can't be done.
Just look around you at the sky, oceans, mountains, etc. That's proof that God exists. Zimmerman is correct. It was God's plan that Zimmerman follow Martin that day, and that God protected Zimmerman from Satan(Martinn.
He could have tried "the devil made me do it". But that wouldn't play as well as "it was gods plan".
Just look around, cancer, birth defects, mental illness, cholera, malaria, typhus, and in the end we all die. Is this proof of gods existence ?
Just look around, cancer, birth defects, mental illness, cholera, malaria, typhus, and in the end we all die. Is this proof of gods existence ?
These things are the result of mankind and Satan's actions. Not God's. God created the earth for mankind, and He gave them authority to rule over it. Mankind turned over that God-given authority to Satan. STop blaming God for the evil in the world. Educate yourself before falpping your lips, please. Thanks.
Well you still need to prove that there's a god before either one of you start flapping your lips. I just want to see the proof.
I remember sitting in Sunday School at age four thinking how rediculous these stories are, but with parents who worked in the church, I had no choice but to go. That's why when I turned sixteen and got my drivers licence, I drove away and never returned.
(Until,) Thirty-one years later, at my Dad's funneral, the pastor from the same church said to us, "We don't know where we are going to go when we die. All we can do is hope. All we've got is hope."
I'm sorry to hear that. Shame on your pastor.
"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away , and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase . And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed , neither shall they be lacking , saith the LORD. Behold, the days come , saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper , and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth."
Jeremiah 23:1-5
I'm sorry to hear that. Shame on your pastor.
"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth."
Jeremiah 23:1-5
No, um, rediculous stories like that drove me away.
....and he's not my pastor. I don't have a pastor.
jesusmyth54: Were you present when Trayvon was shot? You are completely ignorant to have made such a claim when there is only one side of the story being told here and that side is the side facing murder charges...of course Zimmerman wants the world to believe Trayvon started this. The reality is that had Zimmerman obeyed what the 9-1-1 operator told him that night and not followed Trayvon we would not be talking about this today. Trayvon was walking back to his fathers girlfriends home unarmed with a bottle of ice tea and a bag of skittles...these are facts that are known. What is not known because Trayvon is not alive to tell his side of the story is who started the scuffle.
Btw: looking around at the beauty of our planet does not mean your imaginary friend created anything. A little less buybull time and a lot more science study and you might actually understand how life on this great planet came to be. You seem to think that everything needs a creator, please tell us who created your god?
@steve. Oh yes, anything good that happens is because of god and anything bad is because of Satan. According to your myth god created Satan and knew he would cause trouble. Yet he let's him continue. ??? He also created hell to torture people who don't worship him. You believe this hocus pocus juju and say I need an education?
Warning Warning Atheist united on this post!!! dont worry about anything they Post. They will tell you God kills is a slave driver is merciless and yet He lets these pimples on the butt of society live NOW THATS MERCY, thats the best example I can give of Gods loving nature.
Mat 13:14 "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
Mat 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
Mat 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Mat 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
What a positive message of love, peace, and mercy !!!
Well it looks like Jesus plans to kill everyone on the planet except for a chosen few, just like he did with the great flood. That includes unborn fetuses.
God seems to have anger management problems and can't decide to love us, torture us, or just kill us.
For god so loved the world that he said "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground; man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them."
John 3:16, Gen 6:7
"thou shalt not kill" Exodus 20:13
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death."
I think Zimmerman is innocent, but man, it's just too bad both of them weren't killed in the fight! Geesh...he is a real pieace of work!
This s the perfect example of people not taking responsibility for their own actions. Zimmerman pulled the trigger, god had nothing to do with it. Now if god did tell Zimmerman to get out of the car and shoot. What kind of god are you people worshiping ? This statement implies that god advocates killing un-armed people. I thought god was suppose to be kind and merciful ? Isn't the whole god excuse the reason the Taliban commit all of these acts of terror ? Only difference is the Taliban have a different interpretation of god. It is just way to easy and socially accepted to blame god, or the devil. The real crime is that most people cant see how these types of beliefs emotionally and mentally remove the responsibility from the individual. Talk about video games desensitizing people what about religion ? With religion you always have a way out.
The person who needed to take responsibility for their actions actually did. When he died! It was trayvons fault! No one elses! His parents might want to take a little responsibilty for raising a thug.
CaravanB2: How do you figure it was Trayvon's fault or are you just being a rac.ist ass? A few facts for you: Trayvon was doing nothing wrong when Zimmerman started following him. Trayvon was unarmed. Trayvon was carrying a bag of skittles and a bottle of ice tea. Zimmerman called 9-1-1 due to the fact that Trayvon looked suspi.cious all over the fact that the kid was wearing a hoodie. Zimmerman was told NOT to follow Trayvon...he disobeyed the order.
Trayvon is dead because Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Trayvon can't give his side of the story and naturally the man accused of murder wants the world to think the kid started the scuffle.
Oh and before using the whole pot thing...that only means Trayvon was like a great many other teens in the world...it doesn't make him a bad kid and it doesn't make his parents bad people. I hope your own kid uses drugs some day so you can eat your words.
Have you heard the one about the Canadian that minded its own business?
You won't. The ass hole can't help itself from butting into everyone else business as if it was needed. If it ain't needed in Canada it sure as sh it ain't needed in Florida.
Good grief, you're boring.
CNN's headline and writing is patently false. Complete yellow journalism.
George Zimmerman was answering Hannity's question of whether he thought he would "be here," if he wasn't armed. Hannity himself even said he was asking in regard to whether Zimmerman felt he would still be alive.
Zimmerman's answer, "it was God's will," had NOTHING to do with killing Travyon/encountering Trayvon or anything of the like. His answer was that it was God's will that he survived.
That's it.
To suggest otherwise shows CNN's incredible lack of journalistic integrity.
Your reply is 100% BS
@ who invited me ?
No No dont get me wrong ,i'm not against anyone.I'm not interfering in the matter of court, i have no relationship with martin,the martyr.All i have some inkling that the killer may be exonerated due to the racism that exists there.
Ok if you are satisfied americas judiaciary system is equal for "all" ,i take your word.
Bye
Prayer changes things.
Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!'
Zimmerman said he prays for the Martin family daily. What do you think it changes ?
One One, I don't think the praying is going to change the martin family too much. I think his gunshot changed the way the feel about raisng kids though. Well, at least how they SHOULD have raised a kid instead of a thug!
Whack JOB
Threatening a child with being on fire for all of eternaty is not healthy, it's child abuse, and should not be tollerated.
"God's Plan"....? It seems I have heard similiar justifications coming from the KKK to Al-Qeada. That God sure works in mysterious ways and obviously ignoring the teachings of his only begotten son.
Zimmerman's "God" reminds me of my mother's "God" – whatever they did, it's OK because it was "God's plan." That was BS when my mother spouted it, and it is BS from Zimmerman. Zimmerman acted on his own – period. He was nothing but a big bully with a gun, and I hope he pays for it with the loss of his freedom for the rest of his life. That will never bring the young man back, but it will get an egotistical killer off the streets.
Sherrie, I don't get your post. It is a true a thug was taken off of the streets, he is dead! But as far as the bully having a gun, he didn't, he tried to take it from Zimmerman, but that backfired and the bully was killed!
ITS REAL SIMPLE!!!!!...... you claim he "attack" you....WITH HIS HANDS!!........So the GUN was NOT NECESSARY!!! ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS FIGHT HIM LIKE A MAN WITH YOUR HANDS!!!! HE DID NOT PRESENT A WEAPON...so you did not use the MINIMUM AMOUNT of FORCE NECESSARY!!!! personally I don't think it probably wouldn't had to even get physical if you didn't approach him like a CREEP and just told him who you were and ask him politely who he was etc...
Even being a African American.. and also thinking that Zimmerman was wanna be glorified law enforcement officer and he lost support after he pursued Tavon.... if his story was true and this kid had him beaten and was bashing his head to concrete, then the hand to hand argument might not work as well and most of us would go for a gun, if we had it.
Just Sayin...did you not listen to the interview? He said Tmart was reaching for his gun and told him he was going to die! That is time to shoot or be shot! Did Tmart contradidct this?
In response to both comments...I'm black too. I don't know why you felt a need to tell me your race considering its irrelevant to facts. 2nd Zimmerman has already proven to be a liar before the court, so he lot his credibility. It's his word against a teen who cannot tell his side. So AGAIN based on what we know to be truth and not hearsay of someone who has already lied to the courts....FACT is he had the gun, and the teen did not. Zimmerman is not a police officer/law enforcement. He was only apart of the neighborhood watch which does not give you authorization to approach anyone with a loaded gun! It means If you observe any illegal activity take notes, and you call the police and let them handle the situation. The teen was not doing any illegal activity by walking by hisself. No life wouldve been lost if he had obeyed orders of the police dispatcher letting hr police handle the situation and not approaching someone with a loaded gun like he's the police.
This guy apologizes to the parents for murdering their unarmed teenage son, but then says he wouldn't do anything different and has no regrets! You say it was "GODS PLAN" for you to MURDER AN UNARMED teenager. Why? He was minding his own business walking to someone house, and because he look or was dress a certain way you thought it was your duty to approach him with a gun. YES!! Because we all know that violence always has a positive outcome. You claim the teen attacked you. Im sure he was submissive because your the one with the gun. Even if he did attack you...Maybe it was in self defense Because some guy approached him with a gun. Who wouldn't try to defend their self if someone approaches them with a gun.. I call BS but lets say the teen attack him you are a grown man you could've just fight him back. The gun wasn't necessary.
It's gods plan? He's going to burn in hell
Not if he is really sorry for it, and asks his god to forgive him...then everything will be Ok.
So go out and kill, rob, steal, r a p e. Its OK as long as when you are done,you ask to be forgiven and feel bad about it.
Are you sure? What if he asks for forgiveness while in jail and prays and does the hail mary thing and all that jazz? Isn't your religion all about forgiveness?
The bible says God knows the hearts and minds of men.So a person can "admit" their sins to God but he already knows if they are serious or lying.
Christianity is about forgiveness yes,j ust know God isn't a fool.
Silence!
Christianity is about letting someone else take your just punishment...a basic immorality of our society
How so? You admit it to God..who knows if you are serious about it or not.
Who invited me is correct. Jesus the innocent takes the punishment for the sinning of mankind. All mankind gets punished for the sins of adam and eve. The basic doctrine is all about the innocent being punished for the acts of the guilty. That why this doctrine is sick and evil.
It's so silly that people want to know or wish to know, or even think to know what their god wants of them. Now that Zimmerman claims it was "gods" plan, the religious come out against him, yet if he were in church the Sunday before the incident and said it was in "gods" plan for him to come to church that day, he would of heard a resounding "amen". If it's good then its god – if it's not good then the person is a little whacky....a tad hypocritical. I think the religious should stand behind people that do horrible things in the name of a god, and defend them, maybe only then will they take a closer look at what they believe. God talks to people all the time doesn't it? Also interestingly people claim they did something in the name of god, you will never hear someone claim I did this in the name of atheism....as its been said "atheism is no more a religion than not collecting stamps is a hobby.
>>>"I think the religious should stand behind people that do horrible things in the name of a god, and defend them, maybe only then will they take a closer look at what they believe. "
We, should defend all of the ones that do bad things? Now you sound like Al Sharpton and Rev Wright. Should White America defend the actions of the Neo-Nazis and the Klan. They declare they are doing such in the name of the White Race? Or, lets all get into the basket. Are you ready to defend every action of the United States and its insti'tutions and military forces.
A while back, many in the African American community came to the conclusion that just because a person is African American, does not mean we should "circle the wagons" every time one does something wrong. It was around the time after Rodney King when a few conservative African American leaders pointed out that while the beating was wrong if Rodney King had of hit a child or a old person while he was speeding through those neighborhoods, then the beating he would have received by the community would have been much worst than the beating at the hands of the police.
So, no I do not think that folks will take the blame or even stupidly defend of those doing wrong and should not take that much pride in the actions of those that do good in the name of God.
But, really. Think about it. Say you are a good White member of society. You have African American friends and maybe even married a African American. You have a earnest positive relationship with African Americans and other minorities. How would you expect this person to "switch gears" and defend the actions of a Neo-Nazis that beats up a minority?
If you are Gay and Christian or are straight and Christian and have no issues with the LGBT community..... you feel that we should defend the actions of those Christians that have negative views?
I do not think we will.
Since this has not yet gone to trial, how can he be doing these kind of interviews?