home
RSS
July 23rd, 2012
04:39 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Monday, July 23

By Laura Koran, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: Muslim Olympians wrestle with Ramadan dilemma
Olympic judo competitor Hemeed Al Drie plans to sin during the Games in London, he admits with a grin. "God is merciful and compassionate, even when our sins are many," said Al Drie, kneeling on a mat while martial artists hurled each other to the floor around him. Al Drie's sin isn't what you might expect. It's that he is planning to eat and drink while the sun is up during the Olympics, even thought the Games fall smack in the middle of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

CNN: Romney strikes rare notes of faith in Aurora speech
In a speech to a wounded nation, presidential hopeful Mitt Romney returned to his roots of faith in the face of a national tragedy. It was a rare public expression of faith for the candidate who has kept much of his faith private. Romney, who was the head of a Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints congregation in Boston, quoted heavily from the Bible and the Book of Mormon as he stood before a small crowd in New Hampshire.

A woman sits on her car near the Century Aurora 16 theater.

CNN: In Aurora, the agonized seek answers through faith
The news came in to Mitch Hamilton by phone just after midnight. Members of his church had been inside the theater when shots rang out. Hamilton is pastor of Mississippi Avenue Baptist Church, near the movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, where a gunman opened fire early Friday, killing 12 and wounding dozens more.

CNN: Obama, after shooting, tells supporters 'Such evil is senseless'
President Barack Obama, speaking Friday at a modified campaign event in Florida, urged a crowd of supporters to set aside politics on a day when the nation's attention was focused on a deadly shooting at a movie theater in Colorado. "Even as we learn how this happened and who's responsible, we may never understand what leads anybody to terrorize their fellow human beings like this," Obama said. "Such violence, such evil is senseless. It's beyond reason. But while we will never know fully what causes somebody to take the life of another, we do know what makes life worth living."

CNN: Romney calls for unity following Colorado shooting
A campaign rally for Mitt Romney was devoid of politics following a deadly shooting in Colorado Friday. "I stand before you today not as a man running for office, but as a father and a grandfather, a husband and an American," Romney said in New Hampshire. "This is a time for each of us to look into our hearts and remember how much we love one another."

Tweet of the Day:

[tweet https://twitter.com/HuffPostRelig/status/227256735268757504%5D

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

USA Today: Survey finds 19% without religious affiliation
Unbelief is on the uptick. People who check "None" for their religious affiliation are now nearly one in five Americans (19%), the highest ever documented, according to the Pew Center for the People and the Press. The rapid rise of Nones — including atheists, agnostics and those who say they believe "nothing in particular" — defies the usually glacial rate of change in spiritual identity.

The New York Times: ‘Purity Balls’ Get Attention, but Might Not Be All They Claim
In 1998, in Colorado Springs, Randy Wilson threw the first “purity ball,” a formal dinner and dance at which he and other fathers signed pledges to protect the virginity of their unmarried daughters. This October, Mr. Wilson will host his 13th purity ball (they have been almost annual). And from the first ball to now, the Wilson family has made an industry of purity.

The Washington Post: Can Romney reconcile his wealth and his faith?
As the calls for Mitt Romney to release his tax returns grow louder, and concerns about his undisclosed millions in offshore accounts increase, I wonder how the presumptive Republican nominee reconciles his great, secret stores of wealth with the principles of his Mormon faith. For Mormonism, as much as conventional Christianity, decries the hoarding of riches. ‘Wo unto the rich,” says the Book of Mormon. ‘Their hearts are upon their treasures.’

Quote of the Day:

Scripture says that ‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more. Neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.’ And when you have an opportunity to visit with families who have lost their loved ones - as I described to them, I come to them not so much as President as I do as a father and as a husband. And I think that the reason stories like this have such an impact on us is because we can all understand what it would be to have somebody that we love taken from us in this fashion - what it would be like and how it would impact us.

President Barack Obama in his remarks in Aurora, Colorado on Sunday.

Opinion of the Day:

CNN: My Take: The Batman killings and the evil that we do
Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "The American Bible: How Our Words Unite, Divide, and Define a Nation," responds to the tragic shooting at an Aurora, CO movie theater early Friday morning.

Join the conversation…

CNN: Zimmerman: Shooting 'God's plan'
It was "God's plan" that brought together George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin in a fatal confrontation in February, Zimmerman told Fox News host Sean Hannity Wednesday in his first television interview. Zimmerman, 28, has been charged with second-degree murder for shooting Martin in what he says was self-defense. Martin was unarmed when he was killed while walking back to his father's girlfriend's house in a gated residential area of Sanford, Florida. Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty and has been free on $1 million bail since early July.

- CNN's Laura Koran

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (218 Responses)
  1. nottolate

    @LinCa

    Not new to this at all.

    July 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you weren't "new to this", you'd know I'm not a 'he'.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
    • nottolate

      (BANG!) Stand back! (Ker-Thud!!!) I know what I am doing! (CRASH! BIFF!) I know my way around machines! (Smash! CRUNCH!) I've been doing this for centuries! (Ooof! Bop!)

      Can I borrow some band-aids please?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:08 am |
  2. nottolate

    Let Tom, Tom rant on and remain clueless. He has no idea I been doing this a long time and know just how to deal with and get around machines even if I chose to curse.

    July 23, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Obviously, you don't, or you wouldn't be whining about censorship, you moron.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
  3. nottolate

    @Oops, "It could be, just MAYBE, that the word filter catches words that aren't even bad, like va.gue or consti.tution or docu.ment because they have bad words within words."

    I responded to several times but was even censored on this. There's stuff I wrote they don't want you to know apparently. I've been doing this long enough to know how to get around any machine.

    July 23, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
    • LinCA

      @nottolate

      You said, "@Oops, "It could be, just MAYBE, that the word filter catches words that aren't even bad, like va.gue or consti.tution or docu.ment because they have bad words within words."

      I responded to several times but was even censored on this. There's stuff I wrote they don't want you to know apparently. I've been doing this long enough to know how to get around any machine."

      CNN uses WordPress blogs for their opinion pieces, and they use automated censoring that looks for words, or fragments of words, that are considered offensive. If your post doesn't show up, it most likely had a forbidden word in it.

      On the Belief Blog, repeat posts, even those that were previously censored and not displayed, will show a message stating that you posted it before.

      The following words or word fragments will get your post censored (list is incomplete):
            arse             as in Arsenal
            bastard
            bitch
            cock           as in cockatiel
            coon           as in cocoon
            cum             as in circumstance
            cunt
            douche
            effing
            fag
            ftw
            fuck
            homo         as in homosexual
            horny
            jackass
            jap
            jism
            kinky
            kooch
            nipple
            orgy
            pis
            porn
            poo           as in spooked
            prick
            rape         as in grape
            sex           as in homosexual
            shit
            slut
            smut
            snatch
            spic         as in despicable
            tit               as in constitution or title
            twat
            vag           as in vague
            whore
            wtf

      To circumvent the filters you can break up the words by putting an extra character in, like: consti.tution (breaking the oh so naughty "tit").

      July 23, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
    • Oops

      @Nottolate

      I'm pretty sure you're still missing the point that it take superhuman abilities to be able to catch your posts, read them for content and then chose to censor or not censor them in under a second. Like you even quoted, it comes down to finding bad words within words. It also includes Ho.mo.se.xual and or really any derogatory comment like sp.ic, or ki.ke or crac.ker.... you might not know what the word filter is catching, but I can guarantee you it has nothing to do with you being a christian, or a conservative or any other label you want to go by.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • nottolate

      "I'm pretty sure you're still missing the point that it take superhuman abilities to be able to catch your posts, read them for content and then chose to censor or not censor them in under a second."

      Not if you have the ability to single out and monitor real time as the person is typing.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:17 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Are you delusional? Do you REALLY think there's a little guy monitoring every post here in real time??

      I have this bridge I'd like to offer you at a great price...

      July 24, 2012 at 12:19 am |
    • I wonder

      nottolate,
      "Not if you have the ability to single out and monitor real time as the person is typing."

      You must think that you are real SPECIAL, Church Lady.

      There are NO REAL-TIME MODERATORS on these blogs.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:25 am |
  4. nottolate

    @Oops

    "Why is it you think you got censored for content?"

    You guys have no idea of the dirty tricks CNN plays on conservatives hear. Think about it, by this time y'all have figured out that I am a Christian and so there is nothing profane in my post. Been censor 4 times already though while Tom, Tom gets away with cursing.

    July 23, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Doofus, there have been a slew of posts showing the letter combinations that are automatically filtered. If you're too stupid to figure them out, it's nobody's fault but yours. Furthermore, there have been multiple posts that show how to get around the filters, and far less crudely than the way I do it.

      Get a friggin' clue, ding-dong. You're not special and no one at CNN is "censoring" you-what you write isn't that impressive, interesting, threatening, or even worthy of notice. Get over yourself.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
    • Helpful Hints (not from the Holy Spirit)

      notto - You REALLY are not TOO bright, are you?

      Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN automatic filter:
      Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
      You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters or some html tricks to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
      ---
      ar-se.....as in ar-senic.
      co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
      co-on.....as in racc-oon, coc-oon, etc.
      cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
      cu-nt.....as in Scu-nthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
      ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
      ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, drift-wood, etc.
      ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
      ho-oters…as in sho-oters
      ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
      hu-mp… as in th-ump, th-umper, th-umping
      jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
      ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
      koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
      nip-ple
      o-rgy….as in po-rgy, zo-rgy, etc.
      pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
      p-orn… as in p-ornography
      pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
      que-er
      ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
      se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
      sl-ut
      sm-ut…..as in transm-utation
      sn-atch
      sp-ank
      sp-ic.....as in desp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
      sp-oon
      sp-ook… as in sp-ooky, sp-ooked
      strip-per
      ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
      tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
      va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
      who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
      wt-f....also!!!!!!!
      There's another phrase that someone found, "wo-nderful us" (have no idea what sets that one off).

      July 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Helpful Hints (not from the Holy Spirit)

      It looks like I need to update my list. You've got quite a few more words than I do. 🙂

      July 24, 2012 at 12:15 am |
  5. nottolate

    "nottolate, what is the meaning of your moniker?"

    Nothing it was just available.

    July 23, 2012 at 10:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      As opposed to what other choice? Did you mean "Not too late"? Or something else?

      "It was just available". Yeah, so is muckaluck. Didja try that one?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:54 pm |
    • Oops

      Girl's got a point @not, considering everything is available, did you mean to misspell not too late or at this point are you just too lazy to change it?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • muckaluck

      See? No problem with that one.

      Know what I think? You fucked up. You thought you were using "not too late" and forgot that it's "too" not "to".

      And now you're embarrassed, and rightly so.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • nottolate

      See? Even your own moniker is "available".

      Why do you people feel compelled to lie?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:58 pm |
    • nottolate

      Not following anything going on up top here. You people can't be serious.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, please. You're following. You just can't admit you screwed up.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:21 pm |
    • I wonder

      nottolate,

      Do you really not know the difference between the words "to" and "too"?

      July 23, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And that IS the 64 million dollar question!

      July 23, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
    • LinCA

      @muckaluck

      You said, "You fucked up."
      Don't forget the closing tag (</b>).

      July 23, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yeah, I never remember it and can't be bothered to try. I'm just happy to post "fuck when I want to.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Crap! I even tried to do it right! I always fuck it up!

      July 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I did it! Thanks, Lin!

      Now, how will I remember this....

      July 23, 2012 at 11:44 pm |
    • Name That Film

      Now, write it out a hundred times. And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • LinCA

      @Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You said, "Now, how will I remember this...."
      You could do what I did. I use Notepad++ as my text editor (free download, just google it). It allows you to record a macro that you then can assign to a keystroke. You type it once and simply insert it wherever you place your cursor (Alt-C works for me).

      You can even get fancier and record keystrokes to insert phrases you often use, or to set text to bold or italics. Have fun.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:35 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Thanks, Lin, I'll try it.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:37 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, Name that film, I admit I had to look it up–Life of Brian, right?

      I also have to admit that when I first read the post, I sort of gulped-and then remembered I had no balls. 😉

      July 24, 2012 at 12:40 am |
    • Jethro Bob Gooberpyle

      You've never seen Life Of Brian?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Heathen! It's easily the funniest satire on the insanity of religion ever! Christians protested it and forced theaters not to show it . . . before anyone had seen it! Religious people raged about the insult to Jesus, which is hilarious because Jesus isn't ridiculed in any way in the film. But those people hadn't seen it either.

      Christians thought it was the most blasphemous movie they never saw.

      See it. Mandatory, or we have to pull your Secret Nefarious Atheist Cabal Union card.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:02 am |
  6. nottolate

    @Results, "So for the sake of the survey, no Christian would allow anyevidence whatsoever to change his views."

    That is also incorrect. Its not that we wouldn't allow it, its simply not possible to change our veiews.

    July 23, 2012 at 10:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Of course it isn't. You're morons.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
  7. nottolate

    @Oops,

    Provided you with an answer but CNN censored it and nothing profane was in it. Liberals habitually do this because they don't have a leg to stand on. When you have to censor that which is not profane, then you've lost the argument completely. You demonstrate your ideas and position are indefensible. You also demonstrate that you are corrupt.

    July 23, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Proof positive that you're a fuckin' idiot who can't figure out that there ARE no monitors 'censoring' anything.

      What a moron you are. Why would anyone take you for anything but a joke?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • Oops

      Why is it you think you got censored for content? Sorry, but I think you give liberals too much power to be able to monitor everything being written on the CNN blog, read through it and censor it all in under a second.

      It could be, just MAYBE, that the word filter catches words that aren't even bad, like va.gue or consti.tution or docu.ment because they have bad words within words.

      Try again, and this time post without blaming liberals for things that are out of the control of all humans. ok?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • I wonder

      notto, (btw, is it "notto late" or "not tolate" or what?)

      You mean the Holy Spirit didn't help you figure out the word fragment filter on this forum...?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oops, you're far too generous.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
    • Oops

      @Tom Tom

      You're making me blush.....

      July 23, 2012 at 10:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I wonder, I've asked him twice now about his (I'm just guessing at gender) moniker. Is it a playful misspelling of "not too late"? Or is it an order for a coffee at Starbucks: "notto late", whatever concoction that might be? Or did he just fuck up like most of the fundies and not realize that it's "not too late"?

      Of course, for him, it's far "too late" to come up with a good defense, so we'll probably never know....

      July 23, 2012 at 10:53 pm |
    • nottolate

      I wonder, I've asked him twice now about his (I'm just guessing at gender) moniker. Is it a playful misspelling of "not too late"? Or is it an order for a coffee at Starbucks: "notto late",

      Let's see, some really hard questions and doctrines are being discussed and this one is focused on monikers? And even has the audacity to refer to others as morons??? You have got to be kidding.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:27 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you can't answer honestly? Good to know. I will simply ignore anything you have to say on matters of more import, since you are obviously only interested in dissembling.

      Thanks for playing, Nottoobright.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:33 am |
  8. hawaiiguest

    Oh Oh I have a question for all my fellow atheists.

    If you could choose one god to be real and to worship, who would it be?

    July 23, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • Oops

      Fantastic question

      I have to say that if there was any god that was actually real I would hope it would be the greek pantheon. They had the most interesting stories and as far as I can tell, the most interaction with their subjects. I guess it's sort of a cop out to say a pantheon, so I guess specifically I think Posiedon would be neat.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Ah but be sure to think about the diferent afterlives and the ays you get there.
      I'll be giving my answer later.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Oops

      @Hawaiiguest

      i mean, it's going to be tough really "hoping" for a specific god considering all of them can be complete as/sholes, especially to the unbelievers. To get the most benefit for myself, I'd want it to be the jewish god, because he would like me the best because I got to be born a jew.

      I chose Posiedon however because he was a very entertaining character in all the myths.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Oh I'm not asking what you would "hope" for. Hmm, maybe I need to reword it.

      If you could pick one god/gods (complete with afterlife), which would it be.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      If you could pick one god/gods (complete with afterlife) to be real, which would it be?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • Oops

      @Hawaii

      Oh.... well I still might go with the greek gods. 1. Life did not include nearly as many sins as todays gods have. You could pretty much have as much se.x and stuff as you want and they would cheer you on. As for afterlife, Hades wasn't really that bad unless you got a specific punishment (See Sysiphus or Tantalus) but for the most part people went to the Elyssian Fields and kind of just lived the rest of eternity as they would topside, but without fear of death.

      Please correct me if I got Hades really mixed up, but as far as I can tell the greek and later the roman gods offered what sounds like much more enjoyable lives and afterlives than the present. you got to live like a nun/priest to try and be one of the few to enter heaven, which as far as we've decided is the most kicka.ss place, full of family, hot women/men, xbox's, chocolate fountains and joy but none of the fun like here on earth.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • Bippy, the Reincarnated Lesser Zombie-Squirrel God of Burnt PopTarts

      CHOOSE ME ! ! ! CHOOSE ME ! ! ! ! ! !

      If you don't choose me, I'm going to be like th Christian and Islamic God and torture forever by, uh, give me a minute, okay, I'll do something really really, uh, well, it will involve acorns bonking eternally on your head and giving me foot massages and watching endless reruns of the same episode of Teletubbies.

      But if you choose me, I will magically rapture you to, uh, hold on, I'm working on it, uh, My Super Cool Tahiti Heaven Of Cloathing-Optional Drunken Starlets ! ! ! ! There will be chocolate-covered bacon and deepfried snickers bars for everybody ! ! ! And Mojitos served by sex-starved Antonio Banderases fo the ladies ! ! !

      I will deliver all this and more right after you die, really. Really. After you die. Take my word for it. But only ifyou choose me . . . and tithe me, oh say 50% of your gross income.

      Act now! Operators are standing by to save your soul! Shipping and handling extra!

      July 23, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Oops

      Well, souls who did morally repugnant acts (murder, theft, etc.) and never repented or attoned in life to themselves and the rest of ociety were sent to tartarus, a subset of Hades (the place and god have the same name), and the souls who lived generally good lives went to Elysium.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:40 pm |
    • Oops

      @Hawaii

      I thought Tartus was reserved speci.fically for the ti.tans and that was it. Bad people who didn't atone suffered but still within regular hades. .... I'm pretty sure.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Oops

      In order from best to worst afterlife in greek mythology is:
      Elysium (The pure lives)
      Asphodel Fields (people who lived equally good and bad lives)
      Fields of Punishment (people who lived bad, but no very bad, lives)
      Tartarus (reserved specifically for the worst of the gods non-mortal enemies, and for sould who lived lives blaspheming against the gods, or exceedingly and consciously evil lives)

      July 23, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • Bob Loblaw

      Going off the top of my head here, but in the Odyssey the afterlife is a pretty miserable place where all humans go regardless of merit, and it is dark, you have no memory, and you are in a mournful blank ethereal state.

      I also seem to recall that anytime humans interacted with the gods in Greek myth, it always turned out very badly for the humans. The gods were petty, bickering, and they used humans as playtoys in their jealous interactions. I could be wrong, been a long time since I read it, but I think the Greeks gave sacrifices not out of worship but out of a desire that they take the bribe and leave them alone.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • Chad

      Well, here's a thought.

      Do some investigation and you'll find that there is actually one real God.
      Now, you can pray to a stick of wood, but it's not going to do you much good.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Prove that praying to your imaginary fairy will be more effective, CHARD.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
    • Oops

      Interesting, thanks for the info.

      I'm still for sure going with that then. I mean, think about it. All you really had to do in greek mythology was be pretty average. As long as you weren't too beautiful, or good at a certain skill or boast about being better than a specific god AND sacrificed a goat every once in a while you were pretty much in the clear. There was non of this "touching yourself is bad" business, or keeping kosher or any of that other sh.it.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why do people like you have to lie about your faith, Chard? If your faith is so strong, why do you feel compelled to pretend that there is "proof" for its tenets? Why can't you simply acknowledge that you don't have proof but that you have faith?

      At least it would be honest. Instead, you lie.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • Oops

      @Chad

      You're a) no fun and b) wrong

      @Bob Loblaw

      Stop lobbing law bombs on your law blog. The hades you're thinking of only really exists in Hercules the animated movie, but the official myths had stories of really nice places to go in the greek afterlife. As for the whole the greek gods being as.sh.ole thing, yeah they were, but only if you pis.sed them off. I have a much better chance of not pis.sing off the greek gods than the god of abraham.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oops, you're cracking me up!

      July 23, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
    • Oops

      @Tom Tom

      You could even say I'm making you......Chuckle?

      July 23, 2012 at 11:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, you clever boy!

      July 23, 2012 at 11:32 pm |
    • Bob Loblaw

      @Ooops I was wondering if anyone would notice that if you say my name, it comes out Bah Blah Bla. Score one for you.

      Never saw the Hercules animated movie. What I thought I remembered was from the Oddysey and the Aeneid, but in doing a quick bit of online research, I find that the divisions you said were there and for some reason in the too-many years since I read them, I only remembered the morbid parts.

      Definitely need to reread Homer. I really loved those books. Much much better than the Bible. Then again," Green Eggs and Ham, Sam I Am" is much much better than the Bible.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:02 am |
    • I wonder

      Bob Loblaw,

      Yes, Bob Loblaw's Law Blog is absolutely inspired!

      July 24, 2012 at 12:16 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Love it.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:17 am |
    • Bob Loblaw

      Bob Lolaw's Law Blog? Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh, yeah! That's me! What do I do on that blog? Is it good, or do I have to tell the truth and say I never heard of it and am a bit shocked that someone else thought up this name? Do I somehow get fame and money if I say I am him, uh, me?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:44 am |
  9. nottolate

    "Scripture says that ‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more. Neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.’

    -Quoted by Barack Obama

    This hypocrites quotes scripture when it suits him but ignores Gods laws on morality in the scriptures when it suits him as well. Furthermore, he don't have a clue as to what the verse really means. Hey Barack, the verse is not talking about you or even America. Its talking about the saints of the Most High God. That would be authentic Christian which you're not. Nor is it referring to right here and now. It's referring to when my Lord comes back to wage war and slaughter your all your ilk. He will wipe away our tears by erasing our memory of you and what happened to you for you as a result of your hypocrisy and evil.

    July 23, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • Oops

      Tsk Tsk

      Can you please elaborate on this "evil" that Obama as apparently committed? Is he more or less evil than George Bush (the christian who started two wars, bankrupted the country and was generally a grade A moron)

      July 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Translation of nottolate's post:

      "WAHHH, WAHHH, Obama doesn't do what I want him to, WAHHH, WAHHH, No True Scotsman fallacy, WAHHH".

      July 23, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Oops,

      "Can you please elaborate on this "evil" that Obama as apparently committed? Is he more or less evil than George Bush"

      Bush and Obama are cut from the same cloth. Neither is born again and neither is authentic Christian as a result. Both are of their father the devil.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Translation of nottolate:

      "I got nothing, so I'll be completely nondescript.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • Oops

      @Not

      Nice try, but you didn't answer my question, what has Obama done that is so completely evil?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Results of MyPhilosophical Question

      I'm not sue I really understand you. When you say " None of us had a say in. It is who chooses according to his will and the rest get justice," is us us choosing or God choosing? Because before you said that we have no free will and God chooses. If it is he? How can he possibly punish us except as the ugliest and most perverted sadism, because if we cannot choose, then we cannot be responsible.

      You see, if there is no free will, then God is the most horrific monster ever, torturing people eternally just because he wanted to.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:17 pm |
    • Results of MyPhilosophical Question

      I'm not sure I really understand you. When you say " None of us had a say in. It is who chooses according to his will and the rest get justice," is us us choosing or God choosing? Because before you said that we have no free will and God chooses. If it is he? How can he possibly punish us except as the ugliest and most perverted sadism, because if we cannot choose, then we cannot be responsible.

      You see, if there is no free will, then God is the most horrific monster ever, torturing billions of people eternally just because he wanted to.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:18 pm |
  10. Results of MyPhilosophical Question

    So in a nutshell, if faced with evidence that proved a god existed, all atheistss responding said they would reconsider their understanding and readjust, and most felt they wanted to understand that being before they committed to any worship or obedience.

    The one and only Christian brave enough to respond (thanks Robert Brown for having the courage of your convictions) stated that he would disbelieve it and continue his previous belief system unchanged.

    So when given strong evidence, atheists are willing to alter their understanding, whereas our one Christian will not let anything change his belief, basically no matter what.

    I wish more Christians had the courage to respond. A sample of one is not helpful. My guess is that quite a few share Robert's response. I am really curious if any Christian would change?

    July 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Results of MyPhilosophical Question

      You said, "I am really curious if any Christian would change?"
      Don't bet on it. I suspect that most christians wouldn't believe Jesus if he made his reappearance.

      July 23, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Oops

      IMO I think it would depend on what god the evidence pointed to. For instance if the "fool proof evidence" resulted in proving islam the be the correct religion, the cognitive dissonance might be too great for a jew or a christian to get over. The irony being of course that it would validate their god as well but pretty much condemn them all the hell (can we say, IRONY!).

      If the evidence pointed towards say, an ancient pantheon of gods like Zeus, Ra or Odin, who knows how any of us would react. That would be ridiculous and I don't know if anyone would be able to embrace any of those gods after their absence for so long.

      If the evidence pointed towards more of a deistic god, a cold, uncaring god akin to say how I feel about a specific atom somewhere in the andromeda galaxy, I think there would be a solid amount of believers in general who could get on board with the idea thinking "I might have been wrong but the atheists weren't right either"

      That's just my two cents

      July 23, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Results of MyPhilosophical Question,

      "I wish more Christians had the courage to respond. A sample of one is not helpful. My guess is that quite a few share Robert's response. I am really curious if any Christian would change?"

      Christians haven't responded because Christians probably haven't seen it. There are a lot less of us than you think. Besides, you ask the wrong question anyway. Nevetheless, I will try and answer your question:

      The authentic Christian cannot be changed. The reason for this is because not one us became a Christian of our own. We were made so by a supernatural act of God. A part of what God did to us is he indwells us 24/7 and he is not about to go anywhere. Matter of fact, if we were to ask Him to quit inhabiting us he still would not leave. Why not? Because he is infinitely wiser than us and knows we would be asking Him to leave for some foolish reason. So as long as he remains inside of us we cannot be changed.

      As stated, we did not select him, he selected us first. He did this before the world was ever created. A covenant of redemption was established within the Godhead to govern all of this. This covenant was establish before the world was created as well. Part of the agreement laid out between the members of the Godhead was that God the Holy Spirit would indwell us 24/7 and teach us as part of his role in fulfilling the agreement. Jesus took the role of sacrificing himself as payment for our sin (Savior) debt in the agreement as well as our Lord. God the Father took on the role as Father to us in that agreement and head of Christ. All three members of the Godhead are equal however. The distinction is given and roles set for the effective and efficient working of the Godhead but all are co-equals. All this might sound fanciful to you. That is to be expected. But them are the facts. And there is nothing that can change them. We are sealed by God Almighty as a sort of "down payment" that we and none other are the sons of God and nothing can break that seal. We therefore cannot be changed.

      I think the real question you should be asking is, how come you've not been selected thus far? How come you are still passed over?

      July 23, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Oops

      @nottoolate

      What a load. I'm sorry, but that was the best you got? "I didn't chose god, god chose me" is the cutest way to try and rationalize what you believe, but you clearly don't understand the question. @Results was asking if there was empirical proof that, say, Vishnu was real would you still stick with the god of abraham? Your answer, like Roberts, is simply "yes, the god you know must exist even in the face contrary evidence" so I guess thanks for supporting his earlier conclusion that when it comes down to it, the Atheist is flexible and willing to adapt and the believer is rigid and willing to lie to themselves.

      July 23, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Oops,

      "What a load. I'm sorry, but that was the best you got? "I didn't chose god, god chose me" is the cutest way to try and rationalize what you believe, but you clearly don't understand the question."

      Don't believe me then go research it yourself. That is if you're not to lazy. Ya can't make this stuff up. As for the question, I never saw a clear-cut question. I inferred from his post that he was asking if absolute proof was provided that there was no God would we change? Am I correct in that is the question?

      July 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • Results of My Philosophical Question

      @Ooops – As most can guess, what I was really looking for was what level of open-mindedness either side has. The atheists all felt they would listen and adapt to some degree, whereas the two Christians who responded both stated that their minds are absolutely closed, that no evidence however compelling would ever change them.

      Which raises a problem for me: If one or both sides will not listen or change, then what is happening is not debate; it is only the illusion of debate.

      Why should atheists even bother talking to religious people when by their own admission they are absolutely closed-minded?

      I guess part of me hoped that there was at least one religious person here with even the slightest crack opened in their mind who might actually listen and consider instead of the usual "You're wrong, not what are you going to say?" nonsense.

      Because we have learned here that if a religious person could bring something solid to the table, the atheists would listen, but there is nothing the religious people will open their minds for at all.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Oops,

      "@Results was asking if there was empirical proof that, say, Vishnu was real would you still stick with the god of abraham? Your answer, like Roberts, is simply "yes, the god you know must exist even in the face contrary evidence" so I guess thanks for supporting his earlier conclusion that when it comes down to it, the Atheist is flexible and willing to adapt and the believer is rigid and willing to lie to themselves."

      Ok got ya now. My answer would still be same. The reason for that is we know with absolute certainty that no such empirical evidence will be found. Its like asking the Christian if proof can be shown that red is blue, will you call blue red then? We are very much aware of the presence of God in ourselves so there can be no answer but the answer I gave. And yes we are rigid and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Results, "Why should atheists even bother talking to religious people when by their own admission they are absolutely closed-minded?"

      That assessment is incorrect. When you can hear the voice of God you can give no answer but the answer given. If our minds were really closed we would dismiss the voice of God as something else would we not?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @nottolate

      LOL Oh wow that's the stupidest answer I've heard in a while!

      July 23, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Results of My Philosophical Question

      You said, "Why should atheists even bother talking to religious people when by their own admission they are absolutely closed-minded?"
      The discussion isn't really to "convert" the staunch believers. It is obvious most are beyond help. The indoctrination has set in to their core. Their beliefs are what they are.

      The benefit of the discussion is that the casual observer will be exposed to the rational and reasonable side, as well as the rabidly unreasonable side presented by the believers.

      You said, "I guess part of me hoped that there was at least one religious person here with even the slightest crack opened in their mind who might actually listen and consider instead of the usual "You're wrong, not what are you going to say?" nonsense."
      Some may actually be reasonable to some degree, although they may not be as easily tricked into admitting that. 😉

      July 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • Oops

      @Nottoolate

      You accuse me of being lazy and not doing the research and then show your own ignorance by not sculling a little down the page to read the actual question? That's an oopsy-daisy if I ever saw one.

      The question was, if there was irrefutable evidence of a god, any god, that isn't necessarily the one you worship, would you change? Does that make a difference?

      @Results

      Indeed, I understood the intent of the question. There was once a couple of very nice, open minded believers that would frequent the board and debate theologically but still contained sense and I could live with their belief because it was clear they had thought about it intelligently, weighed a lot of the "I don't know" answers and decided to fall on the side of god is real instead of nonexistent.

      Keep at it, there are believers out there who can actually articulate why they believe what they do without sounding like complete nutters.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • Results of MyPhilosophical Question

      Thanks for an additional perspective, nottoolate.

      So for the sake of the survey, no Christian would allow anyevidence whatsoever to change his views. Okay.

      As to your post, wow!

      "if we were to ask Him to quit inhabiting us he still would not leave" – that means Ted Bundy, John Waynee Gacy, and Andrea Yates did their killing with God right there in them.

      "we did not select him, he selected us first. He did this before the world was ever created." Do you realize that means the world is determined, that there is no free will, and those going to Hell cannot be responsible because God made them do it long before they were ever born? Do you realize how unjust that is? You can only be responsible if you can choose (which is which so many Christians insist that free will exists).

      So when you ask "how come you've not been selected thus far? How come you are still passed over?" the answer according to your theory is that we never had a say in the matter, and that God decided he would make us purely to torture us forever for things HE chose (not us). Nice guy.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Oops

      "The question was, if there was irrefutable evidence of a god, any god, that isn't necessarily the one you worship, would you change? Does that make a difference?"

      Doesn't make a difference because we know Satan has great power. So it would be a ploy by Satan. Read Job to get a glimpse of that power. You can't have God living on the inside of you and not know it.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Oops

      @Nottolate

      Yikes, well I was told I had god living in me, and at one point I thought I could even feel him, then I realized they're called organs and there's nothing divine about them. In any case, what about say, the proof that god does in fact exists, but he still backs say, the jews or the muslims. That "fulfills" the whole reason why you feel god inside, but what if god literally came out from the sky and told all the goyim "you gentiles got it all wrong, that jesus guy was a nut, you should have listened to my true prophet of that age, named Biff" would you change or still believe that it had to be Satan?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Oops

      I think I can speed this up.
      Anythng he doesn't agree with, gets relegated to "trick of Satan".

      July 23, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      nottolate, what is the meaning of your moniker?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Results, "that means Ted Bundy, John Waynee Gacy, and Andrea Yates did their killing with God right there in them."

      C'mon now. You were doing quite well and now ya got to go and spoil it by blaspheming and lying. None of the individuals were reported to be Christians while committing their crimes and only another authentic Christian would be able to ascertain whether or not they were authentic (converted) at the times of their deaths.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      LOL more No True Scotsman brought to you by nottolate.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Results, "Do you realize that means the world is determined, that there is no free will, and those going to Hell cannot be responsible because God made them do it long before they were ever born? "

      Of course there is no such thing as freewill. At least not absolute freewill. Who told you you had free will/ If you had free will then God would not be sovereign. God made them do nothing. You've chosen to sin on your won with a very limited freedom you have been given.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:51 pm |
    • Oops

      @Nottoolate

      Congratulations, you fall in a VERY small group of people that are willing to give up on the idea of freewill in order to reconcile your faith with the life you live. I commend you at least on that because most of your fellow believers think they have free will and that was gods gift to man. There's a lot of bad logic in there and many believers get tripped up, but you bypass that and go whole hog with no free will.

      However, I got to ask, if you believe that no one has free will then that means god HAD to have created evil correct? Would't that disqualify him from being omnibenevolent then? Also, I just want to make sure, you believe that no matter what I do every second of every day, it was preordained by god?

      July 23, 2012 at 10:55 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Results, "So when you ask "how come you've not been selected thus far? How come you are still passed over?" the answer according to your theory is that we never had a say in the matter"

      You are correct. That is the cold hard facts. None of us had a say in. It is who chooses according to his will and the rest get justice. This is a hard doctrine and takes years of intense study to apprehend and come to grips with. Most pastors won't tell you that if they even know at all. You can graduate from seminary and not know some really hard doctrines. But it also demonstrate what a foolish thing it is to scoof because unbeknowst to you you are passed over and are doomed.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Scoof? Sounds like fun. I'd like to scoof with you on Saturday if you're free...

      July 23, 2012 at 11:05 pm |
    • nottolate

      @Oops, "Congratulations, you fall in a VERY small group of people that are willing to give up on the idea of freewill in order to reconcile your faith with the life you live. I commend you at least on that because most of your fellow believers think they have free will and that was gods gift to man"

      Its just a biblical fact. If they are in fact authentic fellow believers, then they ought to spend time studying the scriptures more excellently rather than running their mouths. I never speak on any doctrine that I know I don't know because that does absolutely no one any good for me to be guessing and misleading folk. If I don't know I keep my mouth shut.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:09 pm |
    • nottolate

      Should read SCOFF. I'm on this new laptop and my typing is terrible. I positively hate this keyboard.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:10 pm |
    • Oops

      @Nottolate

      Please take a second and write out what makes an authentic christian from a faker please. As far as I'm concerned, a person who professes to be a follower of jesus is a christian and the details make you a specific type of christian, but a christian nonetheless. Are you saying that if you are say, a methodist, that the evangelicals, catholics, lutherans, baptists, etc.. are all wrong and not christians at all?

      July 23, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
    • nottolate

      "Please take a second and write out what makes an authentic christian from a faker please."

      The authentic Christian is the person who claims to be Christian and is actually born again. That is, he is born from above by an act of God. His spirit is now mad alive where it was dead previosly and he/she knows it. He is also no longer a citizen of this world.

      The inauthentic or pseudo-Christian is the person who claims to be Christian but is not born again. God has not acted upon them. The have attained to mere intellectual assent. That is, there is enough in them where they might believe there is a heII and don't wanna go there so they claim to be Christian. Or they might learn and speak of Jesus because they want to appear before men to be pious. No inward transformation has taken place in such individuals however and it is just an act.

      The unbeliever cannot distinguish between the two. The authentic Christian can though.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:01 am |
    • nottolate

      @Oops

      "Please take a second and write out what makes an authentic christian from a faker please."

      The authentic Christian is the person who claims to be Christian and is actually born again. That is, he is born from above by an act of God. His spirit is now mad alive where it was dead previosly and he/she knows it. He is also no longer a citizen of this world.

      The inauthentic or pseudo-Christian is the person who claims to be Christian but is not born again. God has not acted upon them. The have attained to mere intellectual assent. That is, there is enough in them where they might believe there is a heII and don't wanna go there so they claim to be Christian. Or they might learn and speak of Jesus because they want to appear before men to be pious. No inward transformation has taken place in such individuals however and it is just an act.

      The unbeliever cannot distinguish between the two. The authentic Christian can though.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:01 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ooh, what? Is there a secret handshake they have to know?

      Please. What a crock.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:03 am |
    • nottolate

      So who's telling the truth? The one who answers every question, or the one who cannot not so much as control himself and have a respectful conversation? I mean, would you really call someone a moron you've never even met?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:12 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I would if he acted like you, dear. You can't even be honest about your errors.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:15 am |
    • I wonder

      nottolate,

      Fact of life here on the internet - you are what you write. You write moronic things.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:22 am |
    • nottolate

      @I Wonder,

      "Fact of life here on the internet – you are what you write. You write moronic things."

      Moronic, or is it you don't have the capacity to apprehend just what we are saying? For it is written,

      13When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. 14But people who aren’t spiritual (that's you) can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual (that's me) can understand what the Spirit means.

      We know full well you cannot understand what we are telling you and that it will sound moronic to you. We are tasked however with telling you anyway so that you are without excuse among other reasons. Nobody will be able to stand before God and claim they didn't know because we told it to them. This is also why when a an unbeliever boasts of having read a bible, we know he understands very little of what he has read and looks quite foolish trying to dispute with us the meaning of verses.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:40 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Precious little nottoobright writes:for only those who are spiritual (that's me) can understand what the Spirit means.

      -----

      Oooh. So you're special!? I guess that's why it's okay for you to lie about things you think are trivial.

      What an arrogant little boob you are. No wonder you're fast becoming a joke here.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:43 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, nottoobright, who's "we"? Got a gerbil up your ass?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:46 am |
    • Jethro Bob Gooberpyle

      Actually there is a special secret Christian handshake, TomTom. It's covered in the Gospel of Rosie Palmer.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:49 am |
    • nottolate

      There is a verse that says, Do not cast your pearls before swine, and do not give that which is holy to the dogs. Well rest easy cause you'll have absolutely no problem with that with this one. He did it again...LOL!

      July 24, 2012 at 12:51 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Thanks, Jethro!

      And to you nottoobright: Nighty-night, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite. If they do, take off your shoe and beat yourself till black and blue.

      The Gospel according to what you deserve.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:55 am |
    • nottolate

      "What an arrogant little boob you are."

      Well if you think that was arrogant you're gonna love this: You have met your judges.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "You have met your judges." What, is this America's Got Talent?

      Really, honey, thanks for the laughs. You really are a hoot. Nighty-night, Rumpelstiltskin. Try not to soil the sheets.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:59 am |
  11. ABC

    A
    Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Matthew 7:7
    B
    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31
    C
    Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and He shall sustain thee; Psalm 55:22
    D
    Delight thyself also in the Lord; and He shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Psalm 37:4
    E
    Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise;be thankful unto Him, and bless His name. Psalm 100:4
    F
    Fear not; for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art Mine. Isaiah 43:1
    G
    Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18
    H
    Hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;(for He is faithful that promised;) Hebrews 10:23
    I
    Incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Proverbs 2:2
    J
    Joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Romans 5:11
    K
    Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. Proverbs 4:23
    L
    Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Luke 6:27
    M
    Make a joyful noise unto the Lord Psalm 100:1
    N
    Neglect not the gift that is in thee, 1 Tim.4:14
    O
    Offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, Hebrews 13:15
    P
    Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee. Psalm 122:6
    Q
    Quicken me after thy loving-kindness; so shall I keep the testimony of Thy mouth. Psalm 119:88
    R
    Remember His marvelous works that He hath done Psalm 105:5
    S
    Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1
    T
    Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5
    U
    Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 1Peter 4:9
    V
    Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ 1 Cor.15:57
    W
    Walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto His kingdom and glory. 1 Thess. 2:12
    Y
    Yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead Romans 6:13
    Z
    Zeal for the Lord. 2 Kings 10:16
    A
    Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Matthew 7:7
    B
    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31
    C
    Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and He shall sustain thee; Psalm 55:22
    D
    Delight thyself also in the Lord; and He shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Psalm 37:4
    E
    Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise;be thankful unto Him, and bless His name. Psalm 100:4
    F
    Fear not; for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art Mine. Isaiah 43:1
    G
    Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18
    H
    Hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;(for He is faithful that promised;) Hebrews 10:23
    I
    Incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Proverbs 2:2
    J
    Joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Romans 5:11
    K
    Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. Proverbs 4:23
    L
    Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Luke 6:27
    M
    Make a joyful noise unto the Lord Psalm 100:1
    N
    Neglect not the gift that is in thee, 1 Tim.4:14
    O
    Offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, Hebrews 13:15
    P
    Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee. Psalm 122:6
    Q
    Quicken me after thy loving-kindness; so shall I keep the testimony of Thy mouth. Psalm 119:88
    R
    Remember His marvelous works that He hath done Psalm 105:5
    S
    Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1
    T
    Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5
    U
    Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 1Peter 4:9
    V
    Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ 1 Cor.15:57
    W
    Walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto His kingdom and glory. 1 Thess. 2:12
    Y
    Yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead Romans 6:13
    Z
    Zeal for the Lord. 2 Kings 10:16

    July 23, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • Waa Waa

      Oh darn that letter X! God should have made some good X-words for this sappy schmatlzy hallmark drivel. Here, I'll do it for you:

      X. Xanthous be the happy egg-yokey happy color of happy God's happy love for you. Happy.

      X. Xena, Warrior Princess, beat the crap out of David and Solomon and all those other wimps, then dated the also-butch also-kick-ass Judith, as lesbianism is okay in the Bible.

      July 23, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • Varney

      X
      Xmas – a pagan holiday coopted by the inventors of christianity

      July 23, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Pus.sy Galore's Flying Circus

      I'm all for turning Xmas into Xenamas!

      July 23, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Nice to see that you still have (and apparently use) your Little Golden Books bible.

      July 23, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
  12. Oops

    Honest question

    Why would a loving god full of infinite wisdom and grace create pigs and then order man not to eat it? This is the same god that created the orgasm and then made people feel bad for having it. Doesn't that seem strange?

    July 23, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Unknown

      Old Jewish laws(meaning the literal laws they followed) were outlawed for Christians when Jesus himself was the ransom(died,rose again).Jesus said he did not come to change the law but what he did was end the 600 laws that early Jews followed.

      Any informed believer atheist etc would already know this as its very clear towards the end of the OT.

      Do you know what sin is? Desire?

      July 23, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So Leviticus isn't part of law, now? Gee, guess you can't use it to pretend you have God's permission to hate gays, can you?

      July 23, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • Unknown

      Christians aren't Jews.Why would we ever follow a law when we weren't? We follow Christ and believe he's our savior.Jews don't.

      Educate yourself troll Tom tom.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • VanHagar

      @Oops...explain, first the reason for the pig's existence. (I couldn't tell you, but perhaps it was something other than just livestock for humans.) As for the orgasm, wrong again. He doesn't want us to feel guilty about it–He wants us to enjoy it–just in the proper marital context.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • To many morons that don't know God

      Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)

      July 23, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And in the next verse says:

      "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

      July 23, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • Oops

      @Unknown

      You missed the main point of the question, I wasn't asking for just christians, I was speaking in generalities. You also missed the idea that christ supposedly came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. It's still against the Law to eat pork, but now you have a jesus shield of a sort to take that sin for you instead of having to keep kosher.

      No one seemed to understand the question though so I'll rephrase it to help you slow learners better understand. First, god outlawed eating pork because it's "unclean" and yet we all know that bacon specifically and pork in general is amazingly delicious, not "unclean" and perfectly edible. It casts a light on a bigger question in general, at least in my mind, Why would god create poisonous plants that look edible? Casting my net as far as it can go, you might be able to understand the underlying part of the question, Of everything that is inedible on earth as is, why would god specifically create something that is perfectly fine to eat and won't kill you right away and then limit it?

      As for the orgasm, the question is similar. So god creates a thing like the orgasm that makes a person feel AWESOME, makes it fine to stimulate yourself without any outside help and yet mas.turbation is wrong, having se.x is wrong unless your in marriage. If marriage was so important, wouldn't god make it better to be married rather than the act of se.x itself?

      July 23, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      *Viewers, please be patient; we are experiencing a delay while Unknown goes off to experiment with this new concept called "mast ur bation". We will return to our regularly scheduled program in a..um.. a while...*

      July 23, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
  13. Unknown

    Atheists claim to know more about a faith than a believer does but they show,they don't know the meaning of faith.

    July 23, 2012 at 6:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you have faith, why do you care what atheists say?

      July 23, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Or should I address you as "Common Sense"?

      July 23, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Believers claim that faith carries power but fail to prove their claim.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:43 pm |
    • Unknown

      Never said I cared.Atheists tend to lie more when they are in the corner.Trapped and uses cheap cop-outs to escape facing the truth.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • Unknown

      Atheists claim people MUST prove God exists to just them.

      Atheism is a cheap way to live life and escape facing the answers on your own.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Whatever you say, honey.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Unknown

      You said, "Atheists claim people MUST prove God exists to just them."
      Nope. You are free to wallow in your ignorance. If you keep your nonsense out of the public sphere, nobody will question your delusion. If, on the other hand, you insist on spouting that obvious bullshit in a public place, you should expect to get questioned on it.

      You said, "Atheism is a cheap way to live life and escape facing the answers on your own."
      You are truly delusion aren't you? Don't you realize swallowing the religious garbage hook, line and sinker is the easy way out? For atheists there isn't an easily packaged answer for everything. We actually have to use our brains to get answers.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • Unknown

      You should follow your own advice.YOU also shoul keep your non-belief(atheism) out from the public and out of schools.

      Follow your own advice coward.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How are atheists imposing anything on the public, Unknown Common Sense?

      July 23, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I can hardly wait to see what sort of drivel will ensue from Unkown/Unschooled/Uneducated.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • Unknown

      That means if people can't speak about their beliefs in public, schools,etc atheists shouldn't also.You take away that freedom because you don't like it,it should also be done to you.

      Awww poor baby! I'm delusional? Ha! You are still an atheist! No laws permit you!

      July 23, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • Unknown

      Let's see how about Reason Rally where it wasn't so much about logic or reason,it literally was just to bash Christians.How about forcing "one nation under God" when only atheists desire to rid it? No other religious groups have complained,just atheists.How about "God bless America"? It has NOTHING to do with you,no one is forcing you to agree or say it.

      We are delusional? Pal YOU are delusional.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Unknown

      You said, "You should follow your own advice.YOU also shoul keep your non-belief(atheism) out from the public and out of schools."
      It's all on you. You won't hear from me if believers weren't so insistent to pollute society with their mental illness. Remember, you are free to believe that horseshit. The US constitution gives you the right to be as big of a moron as you wish to be. It doesn't give you the right to inject that abject nonsense on anyone else.

      By kicking religious indoctrination out of the public school system, your kids are free from having to pray to Allah 5 times a day. They are also not required to worship Vishnu. You are still free to brainwash them at home in whatever cult you please.

      You said, "Follow your own advice coward."
      Keep your poison out of society and you'll never hear from me again.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      The only thing atheists promote are logic, reason, critical thinking, the search for knowledge and evidence. How exactly is that a bad thing? Religion on the other hand is trying to promote superstition, faith without evidence and an active denial of knowledge and evidence.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • Unknown

      Awwww poor baby! I mean,if atheists don't like it why not create a school just for atheists? They have Christian schools,Catholic schools etc.Instead of acting in a calm manner,you want EVERYBODY to suffer the same even tho they did NOTHING to you,school etc.

      You are so delusional,you need some serious help.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You object to peaceful public protest? Why? If your religion is so powerful, what possible harm could a protest do? You think prayer in the public school is forbidden? It isn't. What is not permitted is the state sanction of any particular religion or any religion at all by the recitation of a prayer based on Christianity, No student is forbidden to pray. Never has been. If your god requires group prayer recited aloud, how omnipotent is he?

      Really, L/Unkown/Clown/Common Sense, get a clue. You're beyond silly.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Unknown

      You said, "How about forcing "one nation under God" when only atheists desire to rid it? No other religious groups have complained,just atheists.How about "God bless America"?"
      Try changing those to "one nation under Allah" and "Allah bless America", and see what shitstorm erupts.

      You said, "It has NOTHING to do with you,no one is forcing you to agree or say it."
      It specifically excludes everyone who isn't deluded into believing the bullshit. It is in violation of the first amendment of the US Constitution. It has everything to do with every American.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • Unknown

      I wouldn't care.With so many religions already its very clear one does not dominate all others.I may not believe in "Allah" but I respect Muslims.

      Atheists believe in nothing.Why on this planet do you care? See strong delusions

      July 23, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Unknown

      You said, "I mean,if atheists don't like it why not create a school just for atheists? They have Christian schools,Catholic schools etc.Instead of acting in a calm manner,you want EVERYBODY to suffer the same even tho they did NOTHING to you,school etc."
      You are free to send your kids to a religious school if you can't handle one where they aren't forced to pray. You are free to home-school your offspring. Public schools are for everyone, not just your kids. Your religion has no place in a public school.

      You said, "You are so delusional,you need some serious help."
      You may want to take a close look in the mirror. I'm not the adult still believing in the Tooth Fairy.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      Speak for yourself. I believe in a great many things. All of which are supported by facts and evidence. Not hocus pocus mumbo jumbo like you.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • Unknown

      You are allowed to be atheist.The law allows you.

      You are just control freaks who are very delusional.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Unknown

      You said, "I wouldn't care.With so many religions already its very clear one does not dominate all others.I may not believe in "Allah" but I respect Muslims."
      So why not keep religion out of the public sphere and keep it where it belongs? Let everyone freely make up their own mind, without forcing one or the other.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @LinCA and AtheistSteve

      Don't bother with Unknown. He's just a troll with no point here.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Unknown

      You said, "You are just control freaks who are very delusional."
      The only thing I wish to control is my own life. For me to be able to do that your religion, and that of everyone else, has to stay out of it.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      When you can explain how you're being "controlled" by atheists, Unknowing, do let me know. So far, I don't see that you've been prevented from expressing yourself, posting here, praying in public, going to church, or anything else. Can you show any specifics?

      July 23, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      @hawaiiguest

      Yes we know. It's just ironic to be called delusional by the pinacle of delusionalists. LinCA and I are just having fun ripping his illogic apart for others to see.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • LinCA

      @hawaiiguest

      It's a public service. I get brownie points from Bob the Magical Blue Sock.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Well, remember to continue with Meatitude, Sauceredness, Noodliness, and Piracy.
      So sayeth the word of The Saucy Master.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
  14. Elliot

    http://appellatesky.blogspot.com/2012/07/prying-my-insurance-card-from-my-cold.html

    July 23, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
  15. And a philosophical problem for everyone

    LAST CALL FOR CHRISTIANS! Only one answered. Is he speaking for all of you? We have enough atheists to form a general picture, but only one Christian has had the courage to speak hisbeliefs. Any more?

    July 23, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • And a philosophical problem for everyone

      Ooops! That is for the thread immediately below. Your insights would be appreciated.

      July 23, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
  16. And a philosophical problem for everyone

    For the religious people: If a lot of strong credible evidence turned up that there was a god but it is a different god than yours, would you continue to believe in your god? Or would you convert?

    How about if a lot of strong credible evidence emerged that there was no god (I know, you can't have evidence to prove that somethin doesn't exist, but humor me)? Would you abandon your religion or contiune on?

    Atheists, if only one piece of evidence emerged that strongly supported the existence of a god emerged, with no other explanation possible, would you rethink your position and adjust your ideas? Would you reject the evidence? Would you continue to be atheist?

    I'll share my two cents later, so as not to sway the results.

    July 23, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      simple answer to siimple question
      Only irrefutable evidence is proof positive.
      Anything else is suspect.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • BRC

      To the asker,
      If a religion found indesputable, scientifically repeatable evidence of the existence of their god, I would concede the point, admit that gods existence, and congratulate them. I would not, however, convert to that religion, or begin worshipping that god.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • K-switch

      For me personally the bit of info that tipped the scales away from Christianity was the fact that whales have leg bones.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      And a philosophical problem for everyone,
      If a lot of strong credible evidence turned up that there was a god but it was different than my god I would not convert I would assume it was a trick of the devil, same for the no god evidence.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • sam

      Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Robert Brown: perfect example of a stubborn refusal to reason.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • K-switch

      The Grand Deciever rears his ugly head.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • And a philosophical problem for everyone

      C'mon gusy! If you slam the Christians, no others will answer. How about you two give your answer instead?

      July 23, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • sam

      Oh, fine. If there was compelling evidence (not the bible, not a weeping statue, etc; actual evidence) I would have no problem saying "Holy crap, a god!" As for worshiping? I suppose it would depend on the god's intentions. The presence/existence alone of a god does not automatically require worship. I mean, I wouldn't worship a super-advanced alien being if they happened to stumble into our neck of the woods.

      July 23, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      K-switch,
      “For me personally the bit of info that tipped the scales away from Christianity was the fact that whales have leg bones.”
      Could you take this one step further? What do whale bones have to do with Christianity?

      July 23, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
    • Wobbly Bob

      Robert, it's obviously evidence of a transitional state of evolution, like the tail you had as a fetus and the tailbone you still have, and many other examples that some species were something else before they are what they are now.

      July 23, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • K-switch

      Pretty much what Bob said. Basically, before I learned that fact, I was in the group that did not believe evolution was possible, because I was taught the abreviated "fish crawling out of the ocean" version that makes evolution "sound" dumb, but doesn't present the actual science behind it. That was the first peice that made me think about it, and subsequently understand it to be the most plausible solution. Of course, turning from Christianity was due to other Christians saying I can't be a Christian and believe evolution.

      July 23, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      K-switch,
      I was afraid that was your reason. God gave us one verse, In the beginning God created…, and people have argued about it ever since. There are 2000 years plus of human religious history in the first 11 chapters of the first book of the bible. The rest of Genesis and the other 65 more books cover 2000 more years. I agree that origins are extremely interesting but obviously God didn’t dwell on it. It is not the purpose of the Bible. He didn’t tell us because he wants us to live by faith. I guess I don’t understand why science and God have to be at odds because I am not a scientist but I know there are some really bright scientists who are also Christians. You might look up some creation science and see what you think.

      July 23, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • Obviously

      That is the sleaziest cop-out I have ever seen, Robert. Your problem is that the Bible DOES tell you. Short or long, if it is God's word,it must be true. But it clearly isn't. And after all the decades of assaulting science, you think you can just turn around, ignore that the Bible is shown false by evidence, and say "Okay, but God still did it"?

      Cop out. Major cop out.

      July 23, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • K-switch

      Robert, I now realize there are "thiestic evolutionists" and evolution does not equal "no God". Personally, I think anyone using evolution in a theological debate is wasting thier time. But, overtime I've just become a skeptic. I'm open to the possibility of God, I just haven't found a reason to believe, again.

      July 23, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Obviously,
      Hold on, I haven’t assaulted anything. I have listened to highly respected pastors proclaim the same thing K-switch was referring to, but how do they know how God did it? They didn’t say God told them, they just said that is what they believe. How is it a cop out to say I don’t know how, maybe you misunderstand? I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. I believe God is the creator and we are his creation. Could it be he created in verse one, he threw satan to earth, life was destroyed, and he started again at verse2?

      July 23, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • Obviously

      Okay, fair enough Robert, but that creates two problems. One is that Christians (other religions do it too) keep shifting what that say they believe about science and the bible. How are we to discuss this when your side keeps shifting positions? Tha'ts very convenient for not getting cornered (hence the cop-out), but it speaks badly for your side.

      Also, if you all have different positions on what the Bible says, and you don't agree what is correct, then how do you think you have an absolute morality? Why would God create a system where even his devout followers can't agree on what is right?

      July 23, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • Answer

      To abandon their little bubble of security and face the facts about their reality..

      Don't expect the religious idiots to come to term with it. Their motto will always be "I will be saved."
      That little bubble – they won't abandon.

      July 23, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      K-switch,

      I have watched and read some of the theological evolution stuff. I don’t know if they are wasting their time, but like a lot of things there is some speculation involved. One scientist stated he had to connect the two to believe. I wouldn’t deny him that, whatever it takes. It is good to read that you are open to the possibility of God. To me that means you have some faith and it can grow. If you have any questions I will do my best to help. I am just a believer not a pastor or theologian, but I will help if I can.

      July 23, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Obviously,
      First let me say that I think science is great. The discoveries in recent years have been amazing. So, I don’t have any problems with science other than a lack of training.
      I know pastors whom I love and respect that believe and preach a literal 6 day creation 6000 years ago. That is what they believe and I certainly can’t tell them they are wrong because I don’t know. There are certainly other ideas like the one I posted earlier, but it is not a new one.
      I have read on here several debates between atheist and Christians who have scientific training. They are very interesting but a lot of it goes over my head. I understand what you are saying about shifting positions, but if you go read positions from either side 50 years ago, both had different positions. Yes, it is hard to win a debate when one side keeps changing positions, but I think both sides do it. As I said before, God didn’t give us much detail on creation. I think he wants us to know that he is the creator and maybe someday scientists will agree.
      Reasonable people who study the bible will admit that there are things we just don’t understand. Part of the reason you get argument against evolution from Christians is that some believe you destroy the authority of the bible if you interpret creation in anyway other than literally. So, yes I suppose it is a cop out to say I don’t know, but at least it is an honest one, because I really don’t know, and neither does anyone else.
      There is disagreement on interpretation of the bible, just look at all the denominations. Who is right? You have to read it for yourself and decide.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:27 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      As an atheist, if a piece of evidence emerged that implied a god then I would believe to the extent of the implication thereof. So it would depend on the evidence. Currently there are several factors that lead one to consider an outside source (one might say "god"), but those factors imply a deistic causation–not any sort of god with a continuing interest in the universe or any one tiny speck within it or any creatures on that tiny speck. The real issue is one of communication. Are any higher beings communicating with humans? It seems not. If there was a god who created the universe, and that god wished to communicate with humans, surely he would not have allowed as much confusion over his nature as we have on earth, and surely his/her/its truth would be emergent as are math and chemistry and physics that not only confirm themselves but also each other and the very logic which is used to discover the nature of reality as continual discovery within those disciplines expounds to the learner.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      If compelling evidence for the existence of God emerged then I would simply change my position and believe. I don't think I would stoop to worship however because just showing God was real doesn't mean the soul is too.

      July 23, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • JWT

      Believe in a god with evidence ? Thats a tought question but I'd believe they were something, not sure about beliving in gods regardless.

      Worshipinga a god – that will never happen no matter what proof is presented.

      July 23, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
  17. Repeat of a question

    I posed this question last night, but I think it just got buried too far back.

    I would like a Christian to help me understand tis.

    John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

    Do Christians generally believe there are other conditions for heaven, or is that it?

    The reason I ask is that Jeffrey Dahmer becme a devout born-again Christian in prison. He had ra.ped, tortured and killed 17 men and boys, then had se.x with their corpses (often days later), and practiced cannibalism on some of them. But he repented and accepted Jesus as his savior.

    Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

    Same thing for Susan Atkins, the Manson clan girl who finished off the eight-and-a-half months pregnant Sharon Tate by stabbing her repeatedly, including her womb area. Repented, devout born-again Christian. Heaven?

    The Son of Sam is now theSon of Hope (no joke, that's what he calls himself), repented, found Jesus, very active in prison ministry. Is he going to Heaven?

    Are Buddha and Gahndi out, but Jeffrey Dahmer and the Son of Sam in?

    Can any Christian explain this to me? If it is not so, could you cite the relevant Biblical passages and tell how they nullify John 3:16?

    July 23, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Repeat of a question,
      Faith is it, not faith plus, just faith.
      I suppose you might have an opinion about someone’s faith if you knew them personally, but that is all it would be. Whether or not the killers are saved is between them and God but if they have repented and been saved, then yes, they will be in heaven. Same goes for Buddha and Ghandi.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • Repeat of a uestion

      No other Christians want to speak here either? I expected more courage of their convictions.

      Give it a shot.

      July 23, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • VanHagar

      @Repeat...yes, those vile people are, if they truly (and that is open to debate) sought forgiveness, saved. That does not mean they are held accountable to God–we all have to face judgment. There are many who are going to object to this–but I would suggest two things. First, who God decides to save is up to Him–worry about your own salvation. And second, and related, how much more confident can you be that you can be saved if these horrible people can also fall under God's grace.

      July 23, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Excuse my type "not" held accountable.

      July 23, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Excuse my typo: Meant to say "not held accountable" above.

      July 23, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • VanHagar

      @Repeat–The Christian position on this is found at 1 Corinthians 3:15: "But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames."

      July 23, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • Repeat of a question

      "Who God decides to save is up to Him" That contradicts John 3:16. What is your source for that, and how do you explain the contradiction?

      July 23, 2012 at 5:07 pm |
    • VanHagar

      @Repeat...no it doesn't contradict the verse, but I could have admittedly been more articulate. God does decide who gets in, and He loves us enough to tell who that will be–anyone who believes. If there is a contradiction there, I don't see it and if you want to explain that, I'd be happy to respond. As far as a verse that says "God decides," I can't readily remember a point blank verse (there might be one, just don't recall it), but if you take the context of the entire Bible, then that can be the only conclusion.

      July 23, 2012 at 5:16 pm |
    • Repeat of a question

      "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". That means if you believe, then you get everlasting life. John 3:16 does not allow God to alter that bargain. If God does, and he denies someone who has met the conditions of John 3:16, then John 3:16 is a false promise, a fraud, and a contradiction.

      July 23, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
  18. AGuest9

    Fasting to a Loss
    Romney lets his Mormon show
    President identifies evil as "senseless"
    People turn to the imaginary to explain the evil or insane in Aurora
    Only 19% per cent of Americans have a brain
    Teens celebrate Purity Ball by sneaking out of it to lose their virginity
    Is having undisclosed millions in offshore accounts the same as lying? Mormons ask.
    Prothero continues to blather
    Zimmerman should have just said "No" to interview

    July 23, 2012 at 10:03 am |
  19. Robert Brown

    Have you ever worshiped any other god or graven image, taken the lords name in vain, worked on the Sabbath, disrespected your mother or father, been angry with someone, looked at another besides your spouse with lust in your heart, stolen something, told a lie, wanted something that belonged to someone else? If so, according to God, you are guilty of breaking his law. The punishment is death not only of the body, but the spirit and soul also. This is the first step to becoming a Christian and a child of God. You have to realize how God sees you, regardless of how much good you do, regardless of how you compare to others, in his eyes you are a sinner and he cannot look on sin. There is no appeal, but you can be pardoned. Jesus the son of God came to earth, lived a sinless life, was crucified for your sin and mine, and rose again to reconcile us to God. It is a free gift, you cannot earn it by doing good. All you can do is ask, believing that he is, and he will forgive you, save you, and indwell you with his Holy Spirit. Is God dealing with your heart today?

    July 23, 2012 at 9:14 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Yeah...right...

      July 23, 2012 at 9:25 am |
    • BRC

      How do you feel about the fact taht Jesus technically broke the 5th commandment?

      "Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."

      IT has been widely taken that that commandment means, do as your parents say/will. And yet, Jesus directly told his deciples to do things that were outside of, or even against his father's, "God's" , rules. So, he broke the 5th commandment (big deal considering he was a Jew). Any thoughts?

      July 23, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • Robert Brown

      BRC,
      Don’t know the specific situation you are referring to, but I do remember stuff like he said he would cause division between mother father brother sister etc, the division being those who would believe the gospel and those who would not. Also, the situation where he was teaching in the temple as a boy and his parents were angry with him because they couldn’t find him. Of course, point of view has a lot to do with your question. If you believe in the trinity then you believe as he said that Jesus and the father are one and their wills are the same.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:29 am |
    • BRC

      Robert,
      "God" commanded that his followers not drink blood. Jesus had his disciples drink his blood. I'd say that's a pretty clear contradiction (it's the bible, it won't be hard to find more examples of contradictions). Is that not violating a commandment?

      IF your way around it is that Jesus actually is "God", then the sinless life and sacrifice don't mean much. He's an all powerful being who makes all teh rules and is outside of human concerns. He can twist the rules so that whatever he does is acceptable, adn he wouldn't care about the punishment and death of a mere bogy taht he just happen to be using at the time. IF that's the one that you want to go with, then so what if he was tortured, he's "God" he doesn't care, and now you have to adress the fact that god, after several hundred years of making and enforcing his laws with fire and death, just up adn changed his mind.

      July 23, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • BRC

      Alright, my typing was atrocious in that last one. Bogy = body, and apparently I suck at hitting h and n

      July 23, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • Robert Brown

      BRC,
      The drinking the blood and eating the body are symbolic, in taking the wine and bread we do as he commanded in remembrance of him.
      If you find someone who says that they fully understand and can fully explain the trinity then let me know. I have read the scripture references and some really good commentary on the subject and it is more than I can truly understand. We believe that when Jesus was here on earth he was completely man and completely God. So, it is easy to say the crucifixion was no big deal, but imagine if you knew that tomorrow you would be horribly tortured to death, even if you knew that you would be raised from the dead, you would still have to endure the physical pain. Not only that but God the father cannot look on sin, so he had to turn his back on his son for that one brief moment in time when he took all the sins of the world. I think that was more torturous for him that the physical death.
      God didn’t change his mind his chosen people did. God made the covenant with them and they broke it. He punished them severely for it, but his ultimate remedy was Jesus. The fire and death are still there for those who reject him.

      July 23, 2012 at 11:24 am |
    • Iknow

      Mr. Brown, remember ...

      Mark 4:3-7

      3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

      4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

      5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

      6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

      7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

      July 23, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • sam

      Crazy fear-mongering bastards like you make me grateful I woke up in my 20's and kicked all of that out of my life.

      July 23, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
  20. Tom G

    I would like to wish Muslims thrughout the world a peaceful and blessed Ramadon.

    July 23, 2012 at 5:35 am |
    • Mirosal

      If you're going to send your heartfelt wishes, at leat spell RAMADAN correctly!! 😉

      July 23, 2012 at 6:34 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Wishing the Muslims a Happy Ramadan but willfully neglecting the innocent loss of 12 lives with another 58 injured...no-one should be giving a rats ass about a cult and instead should be paying attention to the bigger issue.

      July 23, 2012 at 6:52 am |
    • Mirosal

      Tom, how many Muslims are going to wish you a Happy Easter (your fasting season) or a Merry X-mas .. my guess is ... not too many!!!

      July 23, 2012 at 7:15 am |
1 2
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.