home
RSS
Where was God in Aurora massacre?
Twelve crosses comprise a makeshift memorial near the Aurora, Colorado, movie theater, scene of last week’s mass shooting
July 24th, 2012
02:13 PM ET

Where was God in Aurora massacre?

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - Where was God in Aurora?

It’s a fresh take on an age-old question: Why does God allow suffering, natural disasters or - if you believe in it - evil?

We put the question to Twitter on Tuesday and got some starkly different responses.

“In short, God was in complete control, exercising His will,” wrote @PastorRileyF, who leads a church in Bethune, Colorado.

That riled @TheTrivia Jockey, who tweeted, “If that was God's will, God is definitely not deserving of my worship.”

Watch: Survivor of massacre says he forgives gunman

@trentpayne also took issue with the Colorado pastor: "I'm going to respectfully disagree with you Pastor. God gives free will to man, but it wasn't his will that they die."

The back-and-forth provoked other believers to chime in on the theological issue of God’s sovereignty vs. human free will, with many Christians seeking to explain how a sovereign God could preside over seemingly senseless bloodshed.

“It is not God's will or want that people died in Aurora,” wrote @GospelBluesman 20m. "God allowed man's inhumanity to man, rather than intervene.”

The conversation and debate continued in the comments section of this post, with some insinuating that the massacre might be a kind of divine punishment, or at lease divine neglect:

Lenny
We as a country have been telling God to go away. We told him to get off our currency, get out of our schools, get out of our Pledge of Allegiance, take your Ten Commandments out of our courthouses, get those Bibles out of hotels and no graduation ceremonies in our churches. How can we expect God to give us his blessing and his protection if we demand that he leave us alone?

Jesse R
Liberals have made it impossible for God to be anywhere during the upbringing of a child. Can't have any religious connotations in schools, libraries, government offices, etc., etc. Young men (and women) are growing up with no real sense of right and wrong. ... We no longer have the right of religion, but rather the right from religion. Parents no longer have the ability to discipline their children. We are always looking for the excuses ... violent video games and movies, bad teachers and schools ... when we should be looking in the mirror. We as a society are the reasons these massacres happen. We have allowed our children to become social misfits that lead to the kind of carnage we have seen on several occasions since religion and God disappeared from what the Founding Fathers once said was a necessity of a successful democracy ... faith.

Lots of readers used religious takes on the shooting to challenge the whole idea of God:

Who invited me?
How do you know the people that were killed didn't go to hell?, and how exactly does any of this show there is a reason? Reason is obviously something that you have replaced with belief, and you threw out logic with it.

Kyle
"God doesn't exist, so he wasn't anywhere. Get over it. A man was evil, and he was evil because he was crazy.

Plenty of others said the shooting was the devil's work:

Harleyxx
Evil things like this happen because Satan is the god of this world ... for the time being. God will undo all the damage caused by Satan's rebellion and man's disobedience when the time is right. In the meantime we all experience trials and tribulation due to living in an ungodly world. That is why Jesus taught his followers the Lord's Prayer ... 'to pray for God's kingdom to come.'

What’s your take? Where was God in the Aurora massacre? Or do you feel that such tragedies are evidence for a godless universe?

Let us know in comments, and we’ll highlight the best ones.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: God • Violence

soundoff (10,690 Responses)
  1. Kat

    I so agree with the comment that too many want God out of their daily lives, but then blame Him when He is not taking care of them?? If God had not been there, so much more harm would have been done. God does allow free will and let's us see the destruction our sin causes, then He steps in an gives us the awareness that we do need Him and His protection from evil.
    Satan is alive and he appears to be in hearts and souls of many on this blog. I pray you have a change of heart before your time on earth is done. Jesus will come again and He will rule over all evil.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Who invited me?

      If god had not been there, exactly what more harm would have been done?
      Be specific please

      July 25, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • independentlyowned

      Yup, it's all Satan. Nothing we can do about it, it's just all supernatural evil. Don't even bother with things like security or police or gun control, heck even don't lock your door at night, if Satan wants in, he'll find a way.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Rich

      wow, as woody once said something like, "that's very nice, but I'm due back on planet earth"

      July 25, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • Gabriel

      Jesus will not come again. Jesus suffered greatly in his attempts ot bring love and kindness to the world, which was not ready for Jesus, and had his mortal form murdered. Jesus now sits in peace and harmony at the left hand of the Father.

      YES – Satan is alive and active on Earth. However Gabriel, the right hand of the Father, is now on Earth and working furiously to abolish all evil and spread the loving truth to all of mankind. Gabriel WILL defeat Satan. That is a promise.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • myweightinwords

      So what you're saying is, god saved everyone who wasn't shot, sort of helped those who were injured and figured the 12 who died deserved it (or were just done with this life)? Or is it that he was incapable of saving them all?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:27 am |
  2. Will

    If praying to god can help cure cancer then why doesn't praying to god help heal amputees? God must not hear the prayers of amputees because as far as I know, no one has ever regenerated a limb. So you may say, well that's a silly thing to compare! But is it? To believe in god as an intelligent person you have to make a never ending series of justifications and false rationales in complete contrast to everything you know to be scientific and logical. The earth is not 6000 years old. Jonah did not live in a big fish for 3 days. God can't cure cancer because god does not exist. For this same reason god cannot regenerate amputees' limbs.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • KatB

      You can sit and say all day that GOD doesn't exist but the thing is your not gonna change the minds of people who certainly believe and I happen to be one of them. So give up already, your foolish words only make you seem even more foolish. You don't have to believe and no one on this page would dare even try to make you believe.

      July 25, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
  3. GBR

    Michael - learn how to spell altar, and maybe that will alter how your posts are viewed.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
  4. Pawn Artist

    God figures since we voluntarily murder 3287 babies everyday 1.2 million per year and don’t even flinch that a dozen or so adults is nothing in comparison, we must want this, after all, it is all mans decision (free will) not God! God probably doesn’t even want you to go to or support such violent garbage as “the dark night” but leaves that decision to you and your free will, just ask and he will give you strength to turn from the garbage of this filthy violent hollyworld.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • SW

      Wow, hollyworld. That's a great term, and a proper definition of America at the moment. Sad.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Is that what god figures? Oh how wonderful that we have someone like you that is in gods head to tell us what he is thinkiing.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • ArthurP

      Only God is allowed to kill babies. He does not like the competi.tion.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • James

      Knight*

      July 25, 2012 at 11:19 am |
  5. independentlyowned

    Whenever something good happens, we praise and thank God. Whenever something bad happens, we say it's just all part of God's plan. So instead of constantly making excuses for why things happen and why God did or didn't let something go a certain way, why not just say sh** happens? We like to be comforted in times of hardship by saying "Well God is looking out for us, even thought this terrible thing happened, it's part of his plan and I'm too inferior to understand it." Sure it's comforting to know He's got your back, and it's terrifying to think that bad things just happen for no good reason. But just because it's scary doesn't mean it's not true.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • really......

      We always curse and yell cause God wasnt there in a bad situation. How often do we praise him in good? Never we tend to be like man the guy was good or look at those amazing doctors. But if it went bad man there is NO god?! Really?!!?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • independentlyowned

      Where do you live? Just because people aren't prostrating in the street every day for being able to wake up and enjoy life for one more day doesn't mean that people don't thank God. I hear it ALL the time, and I live in NYC, one of the biggest liberal, agnostic areas of the country. Even just a little "Thank God" in conversation thrown in here and there. Or if someone is sick, everyone prays for them. When they get better, they say God helped them. Just because we don't force people to say YOUR prayers to YOUR god in schools and in the government doesn't mean people are trying to get rid of god. Unfortunately.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:20 am |
  6. Nilza Casiano

    GOD IS REAL. God has given us free will to choose how we live our lives. You can use this free will to choose to live righteously and serve him or we can choose to live against his will and out of his grace.
    And while God is real and in control he respects our will to choose how to live our lives. The gunman was a killer, he was evil, and the events that occurred were wrong. God cannot be evil and cannot perform an evil action. But since God is real the devil and evil are also real. The actions that occurred were the choice of a deranged man who planned to do this to others.
    Ultimately, God has a plan for our lives and in the deepest darkest events like this and other tragic events his will and grace will shine through.
    Hebrews 13:5-6 "Let your conduct be without covetousness, and be content with such things that you have, for he has said, 'I will never leave you, nor forsake you,' so that we may boldly say, 'The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do to me.'"
    2 Corinthians 4:7-11 "But we have this treasure (speaking of the truth of the Gospel and the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ-see 1 Cor. 4:6, preceding these verses) in earthen vessels (our bodies) , that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. Troubled on every side, yet not distressed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus might also be made manifest in our body. For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life of Jesus might also be made manifest in our mortal flesh."

    July 25, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • independentlyowned

      God cannot perform an act of evil? Well in the Old Testament, God performed genocide.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • Craboo

      Who has god given free will to? Why did he just choose north America and Europe? He left out 4 billion people who live in communism and dictatorships. USA might be you entire would but it is small if you look at the world population. If you look at the facts you are really arguing that he does not exist.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • myweightinwords

      GOD IS REAL. God has given us free will to choose how we live our lives.

      This is one of the big cop outs of the Christian religion. It ranks right up there with love the sinner, hate the sin. If your god is all that he is claimed to be, true free will does not exist. If true free will exists, your god is not what he is claimed to be.

      You can use this free will to choose to live righteously and serve him or we can choose to live against his will and out of his grace.

      Do it my way or I'll burn you in hell forever? What about if I chose to live righteously, and in so doing discover that in all good conscience I can not serve a god who would torment anyone? What then? Do I chose to do what is right, or bow to a killer?

      And while God is real and in control he respects our will to choose how to live our lives. The gunman was a killer, he was evil, and the events that occurred were wrong.

      I'm going to set aside your god statement for the moment and focus on the gunman. I'll agree, the man is a killer. Right now we don't really know what his motives were, we don't know how mentally disturbed he is, we know very little about him. Were his actions evil? Yes, the death of innocents is an evil act. But the line between evil and mentally ill is blurry at times.

      God cannot be evil and cannot perform an evil action.

      Are we still talking about the god described in the bible? The one who ordered his people to slaughter entire populations just to get their land? The one who killed children for making fun of a bald man? The one who "allowed" Job to suffer for his own amusement?

      Maybe we have different definitions of evil.

      But since God is real the devil and evil are also real. The actions that occurred were the choice of a deranged man who planned to do this to others.

      The existence of evil does not prove the existence of either god or devil. It merely proves the existence of evil. If god knew what was happening and did nothing to prevent the death and injury that occurred, he bears as much responsibility as any who knew it would happen and did nothing.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • TR6

      "The Lord has made all for Himself, yes even the wicked for the day of doom." Proverbs 16:4 (Romans 9:6-24, Psalms 92:5-7)

      "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

      GOD ON THE DISABLED –
      And the LORD said unto him, "Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the LORD?" Exodus 4:11 (KJV)

      July 25, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • Craboo

      You do understand those verses were written by man not god.

      July 25, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
  7. deannhorn

    God does not cause evil to happen, man does! This was a result of an evil person taking innocent lives! If we allow Him, God is with us at all times. It doesn't mean nothing bad will ever happen to us as a result of the sin of man. What it does mean is that whenever we do go we will enjoy eternal life with Him in heaven. I have had tragedies in my life, but those tragedies have drawn me closer to God and made me stronger. Have I enjoyed going through them... No! Was I angry at God at times...yes. We all go through the process of grieving when tragedy happens and all those feelings are normal. The tragedies I have suffered have also made it possible for me to help others who go through similar things.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • wHATDIDYOUSAY?

      Sorry to disagree. Read Isaiah 45:7

      I I (The Lord–start reading beginning verse 5) form the light and create darkness. I make peace AND CREATE EVIL. I the Lord do all these things.

      Now of course the cherrypickers will say that this verse isn't to be taken literally, and in fact in more PC texts the verse has been sanitized into "I create discord" or something similar. But sorry–"evil" is the best fir as you work your way back through both the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and the original Hebrew.

      i

      July 25, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • Craboo

      Why dont you both read Lord of the Rings, its is based on as much truth as the bible.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • deannhorn

      In response to WHATDIDYOUSAY...This is what is meant by Isaiah 45:7
      Peace means all the spiritual blessings that God gives those who trust Him; and by evil is meant, not moral evil, which comes from the sinful heart of man, but physical evil, which God sends as punishment for sin.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:22 am |
  8. Gabriel

    God is currently on Earth, and loves every single living being on the planet. God does indeed despise evil – and has marshalled every single resource available at his disposal to abolish both the wicked and unhealthy habits. God even attempted to directly and openly share the truth with mankind about the truly loving nature of the universe and reality.

    However, mankind was not yet ready to believe his representative form; who had laboriously attempted to educate, love, forgive, and heal all of humanity. This caused great pain to God to understand that his creations were simply too immature and self-centered to put their egos aside. God continues to suffer extreme pain and heartache while his watches many, but not all, of His children engage in negative, destructive, and hurtful actions and beliefs.

    However, despite a Suffering so severe that it can not even possibly be understood by the mortal mind, God is unwilling to concede defeat to the Devil and will continue his battle against the wicked and unjust until evil is INDEED abolished – at whatever personal price the Lord must pay along the way to doing so – even if it means making the ultimate sacrifice. One day, God will indeed be victorious and the truth will be revealed to all.

    This truth is that there is a little piece of God in all of us, and if we could simply realize that as a single collective consciousness, then indeed Earth itself will become Heaven and peace & justice will reign on for the rest of time.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:02 am |
  9. kar

    I have always thought of God more as an evaluator. People make their own choices in life and then pay the consequences. I have never thought that "someone's time is up" or "God chose to take him at this time." That's too easy. And if that's the case, why worry about health or taking medicine . . . because God will take you when your time is up. More Big Macs for everyone. I have a hard time thinking God says, "let's have this guy have an accident and be paralyzed for life" or in this case, "let's have someone enter a movie theater and . . . " I am of the free will argument. Man chooses his or her path, makes decisions for themselves, and sometimes even good or bad luck intervenes. But how we deal with those choices and decisions, or how deal with good or bad luck . . . will determine how God sees us in the end.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:01 am |
  10. Meleia Melton

    God does not exist.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      The burden of proof lies with the one making the extraordinary claim. Can you site your sources and provide peer reviewed corroborating evidence of your absolute assertion? Or do you just think if you say it forcefully enough that will make it so?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Gabriel

      God DOES exist. Read his comment posted at 11:02 AM.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • Who invited me?

      She is not making an extraordinary claim,it is an ordinary and common one.
      Secondly, she stated it in such a way that it is likely her opinion, since she never claimed it to be fact.
      One does not have to prove their opinion

      July 25, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bill Deacon

      If I were to claim "The Tooth Fairy doesn't exist", would you require evidence?

      While it will likely never be established, with absolute certainty, that there are no gods, the complete and utter lack of any evidence for any, makes the statement by Meleia Melton far more reasonable than one exclaiming that there are any.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:13 am |
  11. Sarah

    I'm amazed that this article can even ask where God is during this whole tragedy. He's where He always is, in the box that the world has put Him because it's not "correct" to talk about God anymore. This world is a seriously messed up place, and this latest horror in Colorado is just one more proof of that. Why do people ask where God is now, when no one wants anything to do with Him when things are going well?

    July 25, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • Curzen

      Gos is a sulking emo teenage boy who packed up his toys and went home? lol

      July 25, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Jeff

      VERY WELL SAID!

      July 25, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • Alex

      amazing post...you couldn't be more right.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
  12. Charlie

    Freewill........The blessing AND curse man was given.

    July 25, 2012 at 11:00 am |
  13. Curzen

    there is no god

    July 25, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Where have you looked?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:10 am |
  14. SW

    Our current culture takes active steps almost everyday to remove God from all parts of life, so why would he be there when we need him?
    And why do people expect God to only show up in the bad times, if they do not "show up" to him in the good times?

    July 25, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • johnnybravo

      Exactly! Why should he be any different than Superman, Iron-Man, Spider-man, and all of the rest of the fictional super heroes who exist only in people's imagination? I guess he gets bitter too, maybe he was off in a drunken stupor somewhere wondering where he went wrong, and why no one wants him around anymore.

      Seriously, do you all not see how silly these arguments sound? Replace the word God with any fictional super hero and you will have the makings of any number of movies that have come out in the past 50 years.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • HeavenSent

      johnny,

      And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

      Matthew 10:28

      Amen.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • johnnybravo

      heavensent,

      “In my world, everyone's a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies!”
      – Dr. Seuss

      See? I can quote ridiculous nonsensical fiction just as easily as you can!!

      JB

      July 25, 2012 at 11:19 am |
  15. Jason P

    God created man perfect, but humanity–in the freedom given it–sinned. Adam did not fulfill the one law given to him. The result is a world full of hurt, tragedy, pain, and suffering. This was all caused by man–our representative in Adam–and the world in which we now live is not "normal." It is not the world that was created for us. Frankly, God's justice could have been fulfilled by wiping out the entire earth the moment Adam sinned, but God didn't do that: he is in the business of restoring.

    So God in his sovereignty is redeeming what we have polluted. The pain and suffering is all a result of our sin, not of God's disdain for humanity. However, God uses our sin in various ways, including judgment. While we cannot know the hidden workings of God, we can know he is (1) sovereign, even over the sin that we commit 100% on our own; (2) just, and we deserve to be put to death for even one sin we commit; and (3) loving because God allows us to live–even in a broken world–as he sustains us. He draws His people to him through painful situations. We don't minimize the hurt and seriousness of those situations, but we recognize it's the earth crying out, "Lord, things are not as they should be! Restore us back to the original created order." God has promised to do just that.

    July 25, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Madtown

      Jason P
      God created man perfect, but humanity–in the freedom given it–sinned.
      ----–
      Absurd "logic". A perfect being is incapable of sin, incapable of making a mistake. If God created mankind perfect, wouldn't that make man equal to God?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • Jason P

      Madtown:

      Perfection isn't what makes God who He is. It's a part of it. The Truine God is completely self-sustaining, needing nothing else. Created man needed (and needs) God for existence. It could not sustain without Him. So, although being created sinless–and even, as the Bible describes, in the "image" of God–man was never considered God.

      Besides, the angels are sinless, but yet far from being "God."

      July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • sscott615

      Well said, my brother. Well said.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • HeroOfTime

      Ok so quick question then. You claim that we have sin because adam ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge. And from your post I can summize that you believe that free will existed before he ate the fruit. Ok. So based off of those beliefs perhaps you can clarify something for me. The book of Genesis, Chapter 2 Versus 16-17, God said after creating Adam and Eve "16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

      (Let's by the way, disregard the fact that most of the translations have huge inaccuracies, due to the difficulty of translating ancient hebrew, and the fact that it has been translated through the ages through so many languages) So that is, according to most translations, the first thing that the god of Abrahamic lore, spoke to man. So Jason P, please answer me whether or not you find it disturbing that the first thing that your god ever spoke to man, was a lie. God said don't eat that, or you'll die. But according to your beliefs, Adam did eat it. And he lived. So therefore God lied. Right? And I'm sure that the argument of "well Adam couldn't have known it was a lie" will come out, but then that would suggest that Adam truly didn't have free will. If this fruit is what gave him knowledge, the ability to conclude right from wrong, then he couldn't possibly have been said to have free will because he had no concept of free will. If you told me that I spoke spanish, and I believed you because I didn't know what I lie was, I couldn't possibly be expected to pass a spanish test with no actual learning. correct?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • Madtown

      The Truine God is completely self-sustaining
      -----
      The trinity and the concept of the triune-God is a creation of the human mind. It's not needed to believe in God. You didn't answer the question(not that you have an answer), how does a "perfect" being sin? If a being sins, makes a mistake, they are not perfect. So, which is it with you? I say "with you", because this is just your opinion anyway. The only correct answer to any of these questions is, "I don't know".

      July 25, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • HeavenSent

      What happened at the beginning of this earth age (2nd earth age, see 2 Peter 3) in the Garden of Eden, Eve, then Adam being deceived by satan's lies is happening today, this end generation. Satan deceives the entire world while he blinds them of Jesus Christ's truth.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • Jason P

      HeroOfTime:

      Please let me know if I don't answer your question. But I think there are two prongs to the answer to your question. First, Adam did die. He was presumably an eternal being (somewhat like angles) before the fall. Afterward, he died eventually. But that doesn't completely answer it, because God, being the holy and just God he is, requires perfection. When perfection isn't achieved, his justice requires it to be put to death. "The wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23) is God's command to Adam revisited in the New Testament. So when sin enters, God should cut it off immediately. And I think a literal, honest reading of God's command (like your reading and interpretation, and even the ESV says, "in the day that you eat of it . . .") indicate that death should be imminent. God's justice must be fulfilled.

      This brings us two the second point. After Adam sins, God reveals that he has something even greater in the works. He says to the snake (satan) (Gen 3:15, ESV): "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” This little verse is packed with the goodness, graciousness, and justice of God. He says that he has someone coming who will fulfill the justice God requires. At the moment of sin, Adam did suffer tremendous consequences. He died spiritually. He no longer lived in communion with God. From that moment on, Adam was "dead in his sin" (Eph 2:5), polluted with the sin that is the demise of humanity. But through the atonement and propitiation made by Christ (and the promise God gave Adam and Eve on the day of their sin, see Rom 3:25)–God's perfect sacrifice who took both physical and spiritual death for Adam and the rest of God's children–Adam was made alive again, but waiting for the savior.

      I don't know if that answer satisfies you or not, but there is so much there–I wish I could continue to go on about it!

      Madtown:

      I don't think the idea of the trinity could be human-created. It must be divinely revealed because nobody would "make up" a God like that!

      I think your question is a very good one–and if any Christian is being honest, a difficult one. The Bible speaks of Adam's sinlessness before the fall, but that God still permitted the possibility of him sinning. Just because we have the ability to sin–or even temptation itself–doesn't mean we actually commit the act of sin. So while Adam was created "perfect" in the sense that he was sinless, he wasn't "perfect" in another sense because he needed the God that created him. He could not live independently from Him, but desperately needed His grace for sustenance, as we all do even today. So we've established that he wasn't God or a "god." But Scripture demonstrates how God made man without sin, yet with the possibility of sin. God doing that certainly was not sin itself.

      I'm sorry I didn't answer your question the first time–I wasn't trying to skirt the issue. Does that begin to answer your question?

      July 25, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
  16. Bob

    There is no god. Need anymore proof?

    July 25, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Layman

      yeah, actually. i do.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Yes actually any proof at all would win you enormous acclaim from intelligent atheist who can only honestly assert "They do not know"

      July 25, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Babble, babble, babble Bob. The question you need to ask: Why are you so lazy, not to seek Jesus' truth?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:23 am |
  17. History Bear

    god doesn't care. we are part of a galactic science experiement in which god absorbs all lessons, but he doesn't intervene. Man is on his own.

    July 25, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Bill Deacon

      Not on our own. We have the example set by Jesus and the help and comfort of the Holy Spirit.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:14 am |
  18. Jason

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

    -Epicurus

    This quote says it all. That evil exists tells us one of three things: 1) God exists but is not able or doesn't care to stop evil (He is malevolent). 2) God exists but cannot stop evil deeds even though he would desire to (he is not all powerful) or 3) God does not exist.

    An evil god does not deserve worship. A god which is not all powerful, defies the very definition of god. Therefore any reasonable person must conclude that god does not exist or is evil. Either way he is undeserving of worth or praise.

    If you need biblical evidence of his evilness, according to his own book he drowned the entire world every man, woman, child, and animal other than the ones Noah got on his boat. Even the worst perpetuators of genocide have wanted to keep around more people than just one family. But Noah's family dutifully repopulated the earth through inbreeding. Its no wonder Noah was several hundred years old yet we had trouble making it past 50 until a few hundred years ago, we are all a bunch if inbreds, its amazing we can tie our own shoes!

    In his own book god kills more people by several orders of magnitude than even the devil. He sure must love us so much. He certainly loves children II Kings 2:23-24 tells that when a group of children called Elisha bald, he called on God to summon bears to kill them and who delivers? Just like Karl Malone, God delivers 2 bears to maul 42 of the children. Is it just me or does anyone else think that perhaps this verse was written by someone who just got made fun of being bald by a group of kids and wanted to find a way to scare kids into being more well behaved?

    If you need evidence God is evil, its right there in the bible. Further more if you need evidence the whole concept of god is absurd and created by man, again look no further than the bible. If he does exist, and thats the book he chose as his divine word, no one should even consider worshiping him.

    July 25, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Layman

      you're not as well read as you'd like to believe.

      a Google or, heaven forbid, a Wiki search just won't cut it. people LOVE bringing up Noah and other OT accounts (I say accounts because they are not made up stories or fairytales). i'm surprised you didn't try and bring up Abraham or the hundreds of laws and consequences for breaking those laws in the OT.

      read it for yourself. go and see how Jesus lived and what he said and what his priorities are.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • Kelly

      Perfectly stated.....

      July 25, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Layman
      You believe the Old Testament to be literally true?
      I can understand and appreciate those who take lessons from the stories in that book, but to believe them to be anything but allegory is nothing short of stupidity.
      So you think that 4,000 years ago, a 600 year old man, his three sons and their respective wives repopulated the entire human race?

      July 25, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • Kelly

      Well stated Jason.......unfortunately those that have been brainwashed since birth have a very difficult time absorbing the thought of THINKING about these things in any way other than what they have been taught.

      There is no God people. He disappeared with the Easter Bunny, Santa, and the Tooth-fairy. Let this one go too.....you're old enough now.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Jason, God destroyed the first earth age (2 Peter 3) due to Lucifer deceiving 1/3 of God's angels to follow his lies to overthrow God. Satan wants to be God. God then created the world again and allowed all our souls to come to earth, being born of woman to experience life. All He asks of us is to love and follow Jesus Christ (God in the flesh, to walk the walk. die for our sins to defeat death, which is satan, which is sin) truth so that we live spiritually on earth as it is in Heaven, dwell with Him for eternity.

      Evil is done by those that reject Jesus Christ's truth and are blinded by the lies of satan.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • wHATDIDYOUSAY?

      also read Isaiah 45:7

      July 25, 2012 at 11:35 am |
  19. Eric

    Study the bible, the theme is paradise lost to paradise gained. You'll learn WHY God's hand is not touching the world at this time, the question of his right to rule is being answered by every bad thing that happens on earth. For man it is not given even to direct his own step.

    Seek the truth while it may still be found, there is a reason and a very clean answer out there. Ask to find the truth, pary for it and people that come to you to help you learn about the bible are God's people, his messengers. Listen to them.

    July 25, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Who invited me?

      You might as well study the Silmarillion too

      July 25, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • History Bear

      god exist, but your bible hasn't a clue. revealed religion is a maker of excuses and an inventer of causes. god is wandering the galaxy learning. it cannot violate the laws of the universe it created without dire consequences. solve problems by understanding man alone is responsible for all those not caused by natural acts.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Madtown

      Eric
      Study the bible
      ----
      Is the bible the only way to forge a spiritual connection with God? If so, why do so many of God's creations not have access to it, if it's the one and only right way? I believe it's not the only way. You don't need religion, you don't need the bible, to believe in God and be spiritual.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • ArthurP

      The Bible is the work of the Devil and there is no proof that it wasn't.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:17 am |
  20. Michael

    He is too busy with alter boys to deal with moviegoers.

    July 25, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • HeavenSent

      And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

      Matthew 10:28

      Amen.

      July 25, 2012 at 11:02 am |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.