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 A man pauses at a memorial of crosses near the movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, the scene of last week's mass shooting.
July 26th, 2012
02:49 PM ET
My Take: CNN readers' 7 answers to 'Where was God in Aurora?'
By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN Over the last few days, CNN’s Belief Blog has received more than 10,000 responses to its question, “Where was God in Aurora?” The underlying concern here has vexed theologians for centuries: How can evil happen in a world that is lorded over by a good and all-powerful God? As CNN's readers struggled to make sense of God's presence (or absence) in the Aurora, Colorado, massacre, I counted seven different answers to this question: 1. There is no God. Self-professed atheists may make up only 2% of the U.S. population, but they are extraordinarily active online, and on CNN's Belief Blog. A commenter who identified as Jason spoke for them when he wrote, “Where was God? He was where he has always been. Nowhere because God does not exist.” Bob Dobbs agreed: “God is imaginary. The question is moot.” Many in this camp also quoted the ancient Greek philosopher (and skeptic) Epicurus:
2. Don’t blame God, blame Satan. Many theists on the site described the world as a battleground between God, who is working for good, and Satan, who is working for evil. “As long as Satan is loose to promote evil, bad things will happen to good people,” wrote kat. 3. Don’t blame God, blame us. Probably the most common response from Christian commenters was that evil is a result of free will. Do we really want to be “puppets” or “robots"? Of course not. So God has given us the will to choose either evil or good. Watch: Survivor of massacre says he forgives gunman Believer summed up this position well:
Here Deborah also chimed in: “This act of violence was not God's will. I get so tried of people blaming God for evil acts. Humans of their own free will do evil things.” 4. God was behind the massacre, and it was just. Some believers saw God’s righteous hand in the Aurora massacre, inflicting a just punishment on a wayward nation now run by secular liberals rather than conservative Christians. Lenny wrote:
Read: The man who made Aurora’s iconic crosses Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, took a similar tack in an appearance on the Heritage Foundation's "Istook Live" radio show, laying the blame at the feet of a nation that has turned away from its God:
5. God was present at the massacre but with the victims, not the perpetrator One classic claim in the Abrahamic tradition of Jews, Christians and Muslims is that God is with those who suffer - the poor and the oppressed. Some commenters saw God’s miraculous hand in the midst of this suffering, not causing it to happen but bringing it to an end. “This may sound crazy,” wrote Diana, “but I believe God had a hand in that the gun jammed so that more people weren’t killed.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The most common claim in this category came from peacemaker, who wrote, “God is and was with the victims and s/he is weeping.” In a more explicitly Christian vein, Lauren wrote: “He was there in the theater, pierced by bullets with the victims. He was scarred by the shrapnel. His eyes were scorched with gas and then burned with tears as He mourned alongside the broken.” 6. Which God? Some commenters interrogated the question itself, arguing that the knots it twists us into are rooted in what commenter Ego_Death called “a false idea of what God is.” After all, the problem of evil in a world ruled by a sovereign and good God only presents itself if you posit one personal God who is both good and all-powerful. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Referring to "our idea of a human-like personal God" as "an ancient myth," Northstar56 wrote:
Evoking something more akin to the “watchmaker” God of the deists, who makes the world and its laws and then refuses to intervene in its operation, Norm wrote: “God is not involved in our everyday mundane activities. How arrogant of man to think he’s the center of the universe and has God’s constant attention and every action is ‘God’s will.’” Taking a different tack, "varun" invoked the teachings of the beloved Hindu scripture the Bhagavad Gita:
7. Who knows? It’s a mystery Agnosticism is a rare virtue in the United States nowadays, but there were a few commenters who admitted to something less than the absolute certainty exhibited by atheists and evangelicals alike. "The answer," wrote Terry, "is we don't know where he was." Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom saw this "God works in mysterious ways" move as “ultimate cop-out/rationalization,” but I am not so sure. In September 1862, in the midst of a much greater American tragedy, Abraham Lincoln wrote a private “Meditation on the Divine Will” in which he struggled to make sense of what God was doing in the Civil War. He later reworked those reflections into his second inaugural address, one of the greatest speeches in American history. Surveying the corpse-ridden landscape of North and South, Lincoln observed, “Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other.” Clearly there was little good in slavery, he reasoned, yet equally clearly God was not giving a swift and sure victory to the Union. So what was God up to? In the end, Lincoln had to admit he did not know. Or, as he put it, “The Almighty has His own purposes.” I suppose this is in a sense a “cop-out,” but it is a humble one, uninfected by the absolute certainties (either pro- or anti-God) that have shed more blood on earth than agnosticism ever will. It is also a classic example of answering a question with a question: What is God doing with this war? Who knows? “Josephpusateri” also answered our question with a question. His comment was in my view the best of the hundreds I read, so I will end with it here:
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero. soundoff (4,074 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of 
ONE CAN SAW ALOTS OF HUMAN WASTE AND SO DOES SAWING THE HUMAN URINE ARE ALL OVER THIS KARMA HELL AND HEAVENLY WORLD , AMEN
@Smurfette
Yes... How old are you? Because most six-year-olds can see the flaw in your 'logic'...
Logic? Logic has nothing to do with it. Don't know why at this late date y'all don't know these things.
"Logic? Logic has nothing to do with it. Don't know why at this late date y'all don't know these things."
You know who says that?? Person with no logic...
Now, are you just a troll? Or are you trying to prove Godwin's Law??
Glutton for punishment I see
You still have really poor logic
Old enough to know a bit of grammar
@Atheist=Thinker,
"You know who says that?? Person with no logic..."
The problem is you folks don't know God. You don't know his word or how he thinks. You don't know your standing in his eyes even though he has told you. You think it is logical he should save you when in fact at one time he destroyed everybody in the world except for Noah and his family. How is it logical he should save you then? Just look at you own screen name. Atheist...for real? Why should he step in and save you since you declare boldly you're atheist anyway? See, you don't belong to him.
"The problem is you folks don't know God. You don't know his word or how he thinks"
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do,
because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
- Susan B. Anthony 1896
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do,
because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
There's a guy who didn't know God either. It is written,
1When I first came to you, dear brothers and sisters,a I didn’t use lofty words and impressive wisdom to tell you God’s secret plan.b 2For I decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Jesus Christ, the one who was crucified. 3I came to you in weakness—timid and trembling. 4And my message and my preaching were very plain. Rather than using clever and persuasive speeches, I relied only on the power of the Holy Spirit. 5I did this so you would trust not in human wisdom but in the power of God. 6Yet when I am among mature believers, I do speak with words of wisdom, but not the kind of wisdom that belongs to this world or to the rulers of this world, who are soon forgotten. 7No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of Godc—his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began. 8But the rulers of this world have not understood it; if they had, they would not have crucified our glorious Lord. 9That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined
what God has prepared for those who love him.” 10Bute it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. 11No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. 12And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. 13When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.f 14But people who aren’t spiritualg can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. 15Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. 16For, “Who can know the Lord’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him? But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.
I thought everyone wanted God out of their lives these days. That seems to be the way of the world; not my world. I think the pessimists and atheists are awful people. They make the most rude and disrespectful comments about God and people who believe in him. It's fine to have your own beliefs but don't spew your vulgarity on others. Everyones beliefs should be respected. All I can say is enjoy your life now because there is a very hot place awaiting you. Have a nice day
Bullsh!t! Everyone's beliefs should be respected???? NO, NO, NO (sorry for the upper case, but that mindless drivel drives me nuts!) Everyone's RIGHT to believe should be respected – yes. Everyone's right to express their beliefs should be respected – yes. But the CONTENT of everyone's beliefs should be respected? Absolutely not! Here's one – my God tells me, in my holy book, that I should cut off the head of every 14th person that I meet, unless it's Monday, in which case it's the 16th person who gets it. That is what my God tells me. That is what my holy book tells me. Now, should THAT belief be respected?????
By "hot place" do you mean "sauna"? Because I could really use one.
And not everyone wants "God" out of our lives. This country is still highly religious, which is sad. As an atheist, I don't really care what you worship. Just don't use it to influence public policy.
How are we rude, again? We don't burn your kind at the stake for disagreement.
You act like bad things only just happened recently. "Back in the good ol' days" bad things happened too. things like wars, earthquakes, poverty, disease etc. etc. If find it funny people pray after terrible things happen. Why? Nothing changes. Bad things continue to happen. That is why atheists don't accept ANY religion.
@Jackie,
"They make the most rude and disrespectful comments about God and people who believe in him."
Yeah they do. I think the proper response is to just ignore that type and leave them at the mercy of their own flesh. An unenviable position to be in. Its uncalled for an says much about their upbringing.
Where was God? Apparently at Chick-fil-A
LOL
Great article. Lots of thought provoking content. Appreciated.
If someone ask is there a god, I say no. If someone ask if there are the have and have nots, I say yes.
LIFE FORM FROM THE BEGINING TO THE ENDING ARE ALL THE SAME THINGS AND KEEP ON REPEATING ITSELF AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN ISN"T IT THAT LIFE FORM ARE BORING IN THE FIRST PLACE , AMEN .
Well, theres really only one answer. He was standing the mile long popcorn line when he heard the gun shots. Unfortunately, he got angry that the small popcorn was 35 dollars and waited till everything cooled down.
I think He was grumpy because Bane was such a crappy antagonist
I'm glad someone finally figured it out... Now we can focus on fun things, like the presidential election.
CAN ONE SAW THE HEARING VOICES WITH ONE NAKE EYES , AMEN .
Why do people pray? Is it for this life or the after life? If you're praying for this life, obviously it's not working because nothing has changed, bad things continue to happen! On the other hand if you are praying for the after life, then what people do in this life doesn't matter because it's when you're dead that counts. Right.
CAN ONE SAW THE AIR PARTICAL WITH ONE NAKE EYES , AMEN .
Someone should frame this. God's precious little agrammatical moron speaks.
No, but we can prove it exist, clown.
The best thing about your "comment" is that it shows how utterly mindless followers of theist comic books, like the bible and the quran, are.
YEAH WE CAN PROVE UNTIL WHEN THIS LAST COUPLES YEARS AGO ? , AMEN
WITH THE HELP OF WHAT ? THE MAN MADE MACHINE , AMEN .
I JUST TOOK MY MED. DOG , WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT , AMEN LOL.
Shameful! The belief in God, especially the whacko Religious Right version of God, is an abysmal failure of logic and common sense. It's embarrassing to think of grown adults in the Modern world praying to the invisible sky god(s) and basing life on some nonsense "scriptures" created in and relevant to the Bronze Age mentality. It's the 21st Century, people.
If your God is real (be it the Hindu God, the Muslim God, the Christian God, etc), your God has had thousands of years to display some of his omnipotence and love to humans. Have you looked around the world? It is a mess, mainly due to the ignorance that religious belief perpetuates, like with regards to the policy of not promoting birth control, but even actively spewing rhetoric against the use of birth control. In Africa, hunger, disease, poverty, and famine result from the "teachings" of the Catholic Church. What a mess we are in! Your God is not very helpful. If anything, your God is incompetent and should cede power to someone who can get things done, for he sure cannot. God is incompetent and needs to be fired and walked out the door immediately. Anybody have a small empty box for God to empty his desk and move his holy butt on outta here?
Pull your head out of the magic books (those so called sacred religious texts) and put your face into some geology, or biology, or ecology, or something real and helpful to humanity. The beliefs and practices of the major religions devolve human thought and achievement.
The 20% of the Global population who do not have access to clean water and indoor plumbing want to know why God hates them so much. They want to know why God is providing clean water and plumbing for 80% of the world, but not the 20%. They want to know why your God is okay with the children in these dismal places growing up and living their entire lives in filth, disease, sickness, and death everywhere. God did make the Universe, right? Can he just snap his fingers once more, and drop down some toilets, plumbing, and clean water? If that is excessive for the Old Guy, perhaps he can just send some water filters to clean the filthy water that many children drink because it is the only thing available!
So you think God must make Earth another Heaven, where everything is just peachy? Kind of defeats the purpose of a Heave, don't you think?
And why do you not believe in Entropy or the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics? If you DO believe in those, how do you explain free will and conscience?
What about #8, which should have been the most obvious within Christianity?
The focus is not on maximizing one's mortal life or making the families and friends of those of who dies happy, but to attain eternal life with God. A shortened life on Earth is minuscule in importance or concern when compared to to eternity with God.
For the real answer, see this 8th option:
http://www.dawnbible.com/booklets/permits.htm
More mindless fairy tales... Do Christians have anything else???
No! HERE'S the REAL answer: Gozer the Traveler. He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
SUN , MOON , STAR , MOTHER KARMA PLANET EARTH ARE ALL HAVING CONNECTION TO ONE ANOTHER FOR BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF YEARS ALREADY , BUT THE HUMAN WASTE AND THE HUMAN URINE STILL NEVER GONNER LEARNING FROM THE BEGINING OF TIMING TO THE ENDING NEAR OF SPEED OF LIGHT TIMING NOW DAILY , AMEN .
Prothero the Dull strikes out again. If god was anywhere, he confirmed once again his absolute irrelevance to human affairs. Either there is no god, or whatever god there is has nothing to do with the god people want to believe in. There is no other rational conclusion.
@ Rational Libertarian:
You said, "There are no limits to what science can prove"
Really???? Can science prove math and logic?
Can science prove statements of value?
Can science prove itself?
Can science prove any moral value or moral value system?
Can science prove any metaphysical truths?
Answer to all of these ??? NO. Sorry there is a limit. Finally science cannot really PROVE anything. Science merely gives us a reason to believe something is true based on observation, but never ultimately any proof or truth of anything. Sorry, try again....You need to read a book on the philosophy of science or on philosophy in general.
"Really???? Can science prove math and logic?"
LOL.. Yes, it can. Most of us learned about mathematical proofs in 8th grade algebra class... Scientific proofs are accomplished in much the same way... Did you drop out or did you just decide not to pay attention??
Hilarious!!
No, metaphysical "truths" can't be proved by any method. The first problem is how to determine whether or not there are any "metaphysical truths" at all.
When you can prove that "metaphysical truths" exist, then we can start discussing how we might go about proving them.
arguing with a creationist is like playing chess with a pigeon, poops all over board, knocks the pieces down and flies back to his flock claiming victory.........................................the bible is a good story, thats all
Atheist = Thinker: Really? So even though Science presupposes math and logic, science can still prove math and logic?????
You do realize you are arguing in a circle right??
Science presupposes math and logic to come to reasonable conclusions about observable phenomena. Science CANNOT prove math and logic. Its a self defeating, circular argument. Get a clue. I thought you were a thinker?
A believer getting angry at an atheist for having circular reasoning....
Now I've seen everything
@Ignorant,
You say "Can science prove metaphysical truths?"
Too funny. If a tree falls in the forest and there is no microphone to record it, does it make a sound?
Your attempts at 'logic' are most amusing.
Oh sweet jay-sus he's a fvcking moron.
You need to read a book, any book, besides your fantasy comic book. It's quite obvious that are impervious to logic.
Does Unknown by any other name smell as stupid?
@ Moby: Do you even know the definition of a metaphysical truth? I'll give you an example....There are minds that exist other than my own. This cannot be scientifically proven. Science cannot prove anything outside of the immediate human sensory experience.
"Science CANNOT prove math and logic"
LOL... Ironically, you're PROVING your own ignorance... Most of us learned about proofs as 12-year-olds... You obviously don't have a mentality equal or greater than a 12-year-old.. I feel sorry for you...
You know its a funny thing when an atheist is confronted with something they cannot comprehend. Usually the immediate response is to ignore any opportunity for a rebuttal, then to say something about needing to read a book, or say "he's a fvcking moron. Its sad when people who claim to be "free thinkers" tend to be everything but.....
@Ignorant,
The 'science cannot prove metaphysical truths' comment was hilarious.
This one is either just pure ignorance or desparation: "Science cannot prove anything outside of the immediate human sensory experience."
Immediate human sensory experience? It's really not even worth responding to, but I can't help myself.
I guess we should just stop with all those x-ray and infared and UV telescopes we put on deep space exploratory vehicles. I don't know about you but I can't see outside the visible spectrum and I can't reach out and pick up Mars dirt like a Martian rover can.
@Atheist = thinker: Boy you're still not getting it are you. YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT WHICH YOU PRESUPPOSE ALREADY. Mathematical proofs are not the same as a scientific claim. You USE mathematical proofs to do produce scientific claims. To describe how gravity acts upon celestial bodies, you use a mathematical proof. Please describe how then you would mathematically prove the mathematical proof ? YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU PRESUPPOSE MATHEMATICS TO DESCRIBE THE PROPERTIES OF GRAVITY.
"You know its a funny thing when an atheist is confronted with something they cannot comprehend. Usually the immediate response is to ignore any opportunity for a rebuttal, then to say something about needing to read a book,"
LOL again... The only thing I can't comprehend is your ignorance... You think science and math are nothing but big guessing games?? Now THAT'S ignorant... All you're proving is that you have no understanding of what math and science really are... And your implication that reading books is a negative thing just reinforces my point...
Ignorant is getting beaten like a punching bag in this thread. I need more popcorn.
@Ignorant
you really seem to be struggling with the scientific method.
1. Hypothesis
2. Prediction
3. Experiment
4. Analysis
5. Peer review
6 Acceptance that the hypothesis is 'proven'
You are using a computer and not banging rocks together. How did the computer get here? And on the eighth day God looked down and magicked semiconductors and binary arithmetic? No, the answer is science.
GOP: Can science prove that light is constant?? No. For example The theory of relativity hinges on the assumption that the speed of light is constant between two points (ex. A & B). However, that cannot possibly ever be concretely proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is only a rational belief, but cannot be scientifically proven. Its plain to see that no one on this board really understands philosophy or the philosophy of science. Its really sad however when people claim to, and masquerade around making themselves out to be educated in this area.
No actually I dont "struggle" with the idea of the scientific method. You seem to be struggling with the idea of circular reasoning. Please explain how the scientific method PROVES math. Please explain how the scientific method PROVES logic. I'll wait for your brilliant (and circular) reasoning.
I never said the scientific method proves mathematics.
Mathematics is based on axioms. They are evident truths that are more meaningful than any philosophical 'truth".
1 + 0 = 1.
1 + 1 = 2. and so on. These axioms are evidently true. All higher mathematics follows through rigorous logic from the axioms.
I am not confused about circular reasoning, and I agree that science is a branch of philosopy.
I am not the one making idiotic claims like "Science cannot prove anything outside of the immediate human sensory experience" or making nonsensical challenges like "Can science prove any metaphysical truths?"
You know metaphysical philosophy is not measurable in the physical world. It is purely conceptual. No one but a fool would even try to address this argument – which is of course your purpose – to trap someone in some kind of poinit-scoring game.
REMEMBERING MIND DOES OVER COME ALL MATTER , BECAUSE NO GUT NO GLORY , HAVE GUT HAVE TRAGIC ALSO , AMEN .
How many beers does it take before you can write so incoherently ... and in all caps – nice touch!
A good number of modern atheists I've met are some of the least rational, least intellectual people I've ever met. Their atheism isn't a "logical conclusion" based on "serious thought and reflection," it's frequently a childish grudge based on rationalizing away gods and religions because their parents forced them to participate in church services and they were bored. 15 pages and not a single well-thought-out argument from any self-labeled atheist, pretty much just "derp, religion is stupid and we so smart" and yeah, I've actually seen the "derp." Atheists? Nah... Bored trolls...
How many have you met?
Straw man
Really? I don't think you're reading very many atheist posts, then. Or perhaps you're biased. An unbiased, reasonable reader would conclude the opposite.
what's a "modern" atheist?
@Moby – Read them all, they're pretty much all "gods and religion are stupid and illogical" or "you're stupid."
@smurf – Tin Man
@john – Dozens. I've got several good friends who claim to be atheists (although after talking with them I'd say all but one of them are really agnostic atheists), but not from this new generation.
@Never Research
No, they aren't all as you say. You're either not reading or you're being biased in your analysis.
@ Never Research
Oh, and most atheists are also agnostic. Atheism claims not to believe in god and agnosticism claims not to know about god. I claim to not believe and I claim to not know, so I'm an agnostic atheist.
Get this loud and clear: Y'all don't even belong to God so why should he have come to your aid? All but a few of you belong to Satan. Them are the facts. Any questions?
"Them are the facts"? Hilarious. Where did you get those facts?
"Them are the facts. Any questions?"
Yes... How old are you? Because most six-year-olds can see the flaw in your 'logic'...
And i bet you dun did grad-e-ate 6th grade, 'long side a Jethro Bodine!
@Rick James
"Them are the facts"? Hilarious. Where did you get those facts?"
Right out of the bible. Read it some time.
Good grief, nottoobright. You wonder why people make fun of you on here.
"Right out of the bible. Read it some time."
1. I have read it, and it's depressing.
2. Facts out of the Bible? That's circular logic.
Depressing to those who don't belong to him perhaps. But not to them that do belong to him.
@Smurfette,
"And i bet you dun did grad-e-ate 6th grade, 'long side a Jethro Bodine!"
That will get you ignored and nothing else.