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 A man pauses at a memorial of crosses near the movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, the scene of last week's mass shooting.
July 26th, 2012
02:49 PM ET
My Take: CNN readers' 7 answers to 'Where was God in Aurora?'
By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN Over the last few days, CNN’s Belief Blog has received more than 10,000 responses to its question, “Where was God in Aurora?” The underlying concern here has vexed theologians for centuries: How can evil happen in a world that is lorded over by a good and all-powerful God? As CNN's readers struggled to make sense of God's presence (or absence) in the Aurora, Colorado, massacre, I counted seven different answers to this question: 1. There is no God. Self-professed atheists may make up only 2% of the U.S. population, but they are extraordinarily active online, and on CNN's Belief Blog. A commenter who identified as Jason spoke for them when he wrote, “Where was God? He was where he has always been. Nowhere because God does not exist.” Bob Dobbs agreed: “God is imaginary. The question is moot.” Many in this camp also quoted the ancient Greek philosopher (and skeptic) Epicurus:
2. Don’t blame God, blame Satan. Many theists on the site described the world as a battleground between God, who is working for good, and Satan, who is working for evil. “As long as Satan is loose to promote evil, bad things will happen to good people,” wrote kat. 3. Don’t blame God, blame us. Probably the most common response from Christian commenters was that evil is a result of free will. Do we really want to be “puppets” or “robots"? Of course not. So God has given us the will to choose either evil or good. Watch: Survivor of massacre says he forgives gunman Believer summed up this position well:
Here Deborah also chimed in: “This act of violence was not God's will. I get so tried of people blaming God for evil acts. Humans of their own free will do evil things.” 4. God was behind the massacre, and it was just. Some believers saw God’s righteous hand in the Aurora massacre, inflicting a just punishment on a wayward nation now run by secular liberals rather than conservative Christians. Lenny wrote:
Read: The man who made Aurora’s iconic crosses Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, took a similar tack in an appearance on the Heritage Foundation's "Istook Live" radio show, laying the blame at the feet of a nation that has turned away from its God:
5. God was present at the massacre but with the victims, not the perpetrator One classic claim in the Abrahamic tradition of Jews, Christians and Muslims is that God is with those who suffer - the poor and the oppressed. Some commenters saw God’s miraculous hand in the midst of this suffering, not causing it to happen but bringing it to an end. “This may sound crazy,” wrote Diana, “but I believe God had a hand in that the gun jammed so that more people weren’t killed.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The most common claim in this category came from peacemaker, who wrote, “God is and was with the victims and s/he is weeping.” In a more explicitly Christian vein, Lauren wrote: “He was there in the theater, pierced by bullets with the victims. He was scarred by the shrapnel. His eyes were scorched with gas and then burned with tears as He mourned alongside the broken.” 6. Which God? Some commenters interrogated the question itself, arguing that the knots it twists us into are rooted in what commenter Ego_Death called “a false idea of what God is.” After all, the problem of evil in a world ruled by a sovereign and good God only presents itself if you posit one personal God who is both good and all-powerful. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Referring to "our idea of a human-like personal God" as "an ancient myth," Northstar56 wrote:
Evoking something more akin to the “watchmaker” God of the deists, who makes the world and its laws and then refuses to intervene in its operation, Norm wrote: “God is not involved in our everyday mundane activities. How arrogant of man to think he’s the center of the universe and has God’s constant attention and every action is ‘God’s will.’” Taking a different tack, "varun" invoked the teachings of the beloved Hindu scripture the Bhagavad Gita:
7. Who knows? It’s a mystery Agnosticism is a rare virtue in the United States nowadays, but there were a few commenters who admitted to something less than the absolute certainty exhibited by atheists and evangelicals alike. "The answer," wrote Terry, "is we don't know where he was." Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom saw this "God works in mysterious ways" move as “ultimate cop-out/rationalization,” but I am not so sure. In September 1862, in the midst of a much greater American tragedy, Abraham Lincoln wrote a private “Meditation on the Divine Will” in which he struggled to make sense of what God was doing in the Civil War. He later reworked those reflections into his second inaugural address, one of the greatest speeches in American history. Surveying the corpse-ridden landscape of North and South, Lincoln observed, “Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other.” Clearly there was little good in slavery, he reasoned, yet equally clearly God was not giving a swift and sure victory to the Union. So what was God up to? In the end, Lincoln had to admit he did not know. Or, as he put it, “The Almighty has His own purposes.” I suppose this is in a sense a “cop-out,” but it is a humble one, uninfected by the absolute certainties (either pro- or anti-God) that have shed more blood on earth than agnosticism ever will. It is also a classic example of answering a question with a question: What is God doing with this war? Who knows? “Josephpusateri” also answered our question with a question. His comment was in my view the best of the hundreds I read, so I will end with it here:
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of 
Let's not blame God here, how about blaming Satan for what happened.
The Satan that was created by an all-powerful, all-knowing God? THAT Satan?
Because your god created your satan
But the bible state that god kill more people than Satan.
This God of yours really seems to like passing the buck, doesn't he? She? It? Whatever? How about your God taking a little responsibility?
Hmmm. Shift blame from one invisible, imaginary thing to another. Yeah, THAT'S productive. Thanks for the tip.
I suspect the fact that so many non-believers make their feelings known on these forums underlines the fact that there are way more Athiests out there than people realize, but who aren't comfortable accepting the social stigma that goes with the term 'Athiest'. It is time we take back the term as our own, and wear it loudly and proudly. I am an Athiest.
There's not as many fools out in the world as you want people to believe. We all know that you atheists use multiple handles to post and respond to yourselves on this site. In between your nonsense of the multiple handles, you hijack Christian handles to make it look as we are as foolish as you.
HeavenSent,
Believers not only use multiple names, they sometimes just post SPAM and are scared to have to answer any questions.
Observer, you need to look past yourself and realize that some Christians leave their posts and move forward through the article. They don't sit on the section where they posted to see if someone else posted or asked a question of them. If they are in a conversation with someone, yes, they'll review the posts after their post. If not, they simply moved on and never come back to the same location they posted because there are multiple articles to post their opinion. I've posted days or weeks after a question was posted to me because I never went back to look on the day I was posting on certain articles. I'm sure there are many questions I've never answered because I never went back to look due to what schedule I was adhering to on a certain day.
@SciGuy73,
I think you are right there. In our culture full of bigoted religionists, many atheists are reluctant to claim that label.
I don't believe in God either. I am an atheist.
I would have to say perhaps Richard Dawkins and other Atheists are right. There is no God, and God is imaginary like Batman, Superman, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed. The tragedy in Colorado shows that a PhD neuroscience evil genius can go on a killing spree against innocent people and fill his sick disgusting fantasy of the Joker. It is highly possible that God does not exist. We can always put a question mark on it, but overall from the evidence we see no real intervention from this God. The world has enough problem caused because of religious beliefs by both Christians, Muslims. I feel most sorry for the Jews, who carry a curse of being hated despite incredible accomplishments. I think our world would be better off with science, math, philosophy, study of evolution and new explanations. God is nothing more than a question mark.
God is less than a question mark. There is absolutely zero evidence supporting the existence of god. Not one single piece of reliable, proven, supportable evidence. There is exactly as much evidence for god as there is for the Flying Spaghetti Monster who created the universe. Is there also a question mark for FSM (May pasta be upon Him)?
Sociopaths are the most horrifying of individuals you ever could have the worst luck to encounter. They always have an ulterior motive pertaining to any situation they encounter. Something as simple as saying hello to them, is looked at as a challenge to them.
Bible study should be a requirment at public schools.
Yea, so people can realize religious hypocrisy.
So you don't believe in freedom of religion??
The Bible,the Talmud, the Koran, Gilgamesh, the Illiad, the Norse myths, etc, etc etc. Schools should offer World religion, belief, and non-belief courses – but taught from an academic point of view.
You start preaching your hocus pocus anywhere near my kid and you're going to have a big problem. And that's coming from an athiest, who at least doesn't believe you're leading him to eternal damnation. I suspect you'll have even bigger problems with many muslims and jews and even different sect christians.
Psychology seems a little steep for high school, but it would give the talented and gifted students something to toy with.
Smurfette, would you be okay with having public school classes on santa, the easter bunny, and leprauchans? Seems like the time could be better spent.
Because our math and science rank isn't low enough. (both need critical thinking.)
The Bible should be put in the fantasy section of Barnes and Noble. Right next to Game of Thrones, The Hobbit, and Dr. Seuss. Pure fantasy.
@ exlonghorn – I think that the more people are educated about the many belief systems and religions in our world, the less likely it would be that they would be brainwashed into a single religion. Of course, what I'm suggesting will not be happening anytime soon, because believers (I suspect) know intrinsically that if their specific belief system is exposed to the light, that it will fail, and they don't want that to happen. They don't want their children coming home from school asking them tough questions they can't answer about their religion.
Actually, it's ATHEIST = ENEMY TO ANY COUNTRY, INCLUDING THE USA
Rev. Jonathan,
It's likely that the 3 Top Issues for Christians are:
Gay Marriage (Old Testament)
Ten Commandments in Schools (Old Testament)
Abortion (never mentioned)
Obviously, the vast majority of Christians are nothing like what you fantasize them to be.
Why not be real?
True. Actually many Christians are for abortion... this is more culturally. Stop listening to the media bashing Christians all the time. Not all Christians live in the U.S only..
"True. Actually many Christians are for abortion... this is more culturally."
Then I question whether they are authentic Christians at all.
Observer, my post is being blocked because of course, Christians can't correct atheist's ignorance on a subejct.
Matthew 5:17-18
Amen..
Yes, they'll always take the typos.
The author thinks himself a scholar yet misses the obvious answer to the question: He's there as he is everywhere. But you people don't belong to him.
Or....god has never existed. No god.
You use the word "scholar ", but i don't think you know what it mean.
@Etalan
What's hard about it?
a : a person who has done advanced study in a special field b : a learned person
@nottolate
you are judging scholar base on the idea he, a male god is have mass or energy on all area of open space in the range set by your mind, and state that people are an item that have an owner. I would have attack you on your idea of god too, but that would be too easy.
@Etalan
It is written,
7I can never escape from your Spirit!
I can never get away from your presence!
8If I go up to heaven, you are there;
if I go down to the grave,a you are there.
9If I ride the wings of the morning,
if I dwell by the farthest oceans,
10even there your hand will guide me,
and your strength will support me.
11I could ask the darkness to hide me
and the light around me to become night—
12but even in darkness I cannot hide from you.
To you the night shines as bright as day.
Darkness and light are the same to you.
13You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
15You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion,
as I was woven together in the dark of the womb.
16You saw me before I was born.
You know what, I change my mind, there is a god. That capslock troll spazz TOMG appears to have been banned. Or the tranqs kicked in. Thank you jesus.
Thank you to the scientists, marketers, distributors, packagers, and salespeople who got the tranqs there.
All praise to Jeebus! Vanquisher of the evil TOMG!
Americans kicked God out of public life. Why ask?
Try and keep up Sam.
People are stupid
yup
Believing in a god is stupid
God was at a midnight showing in NYC.
Lol.
There is no God. Problem solved.
No kidding...how much more peaceful that I don't have to live this one live scared, paranoid, and prostrate to a higher power that demands I irritate and judge my fellow humans.
2% Athiests? I think you missed a few. You need to widen your definition a bit. Secularists are the fastest growing segment of the population. According to a Pew Trust survey in 2007, 22.4% of people in the U.S. self categorized themselves as Athiest, Agnostic, Unaffiliated or Secular. Secularists very nearly outnumbered Catholics at 23.9% I'd love to see the numbers now, after 5 more years of growth.
Not really. At most there are 3% atheists/agnostics/secularist in the U.S. – at least what every single poll shows all the time.
~15% are not members of any religion, but only 2% of those consider themselves as 'atheists/agnostics'.
I know plenty of those 15% who do not belong to any religion, but believe in God.
PLease use the word "evolution" instead. People seem to get a rise out of that word.
Isn't it great?!?!
@SciGuy73,
The current report published by the Pew Forum lists unafilliated as 16.1%. There is supposedly some very recent data at 19%, but I can't find it on the Pew websites.
http://religions.pewforum.org/
This number includes atheists (1.6%), agnostics (2.4%), religious unafilliated (5.8%) and secular unafilliated (6.3%).
This number includes believers who do not ascribe to a particular denomination (the religious unafilliated). I would accept the argument that the secular unafilliated are essentially non-believers who are unwilling to declare as atheists, but this is speculative.
@Rev. J.
The Pew Forum has 4% atheists + agnostics, with an additional 6.3% secular unafilliated. Clearly this is >3%, but not by an order of magnitude.
@Rev Jonathan More than 3% identified as atheists/agnostics/secularist. I quoted the poll, so obviously it isn't "every single poll". You can check it out. But I understand if you have trouble with facts. 🙂
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports is the 2007 survey.
Okay, what does it matter whether or not 2% or 80% of the population believes one thing versus another? Either way, that neither invalidates nor strengthens either belief.
@ no GOPer The 5.8% religious unafilliated are not included in the 22.4%, as they are religious. The 6.3% secular unaffiliated are included.
Half the people I work with are atheist. All are educated to the Masters or Doctorate level too. The 2% figure probably came from a religious cult. Even that amount doesn't cover all the people faking a religion so that they don't lose friends and family. Most intelligent, LOGICAL, ANALYTICAL people don't believe in sky fairies. I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant and that I'm saying people are dumb, but it is what it is.
@SciGuy73,
where do you get 22.4%? The 2007 Pew data clearly states 16.1% unafilliated including the religious unafilliated number of 5.8%.
Other sources (from wikipedia – if you trust it)
2004 BBC poll 9%
2008 Gallup poll 6%
ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, 1.6% explicitly describes itself as atheist (0.7%) or agnostic (0.9%)
There is a difference between being secular/ non-religious and being an atheist.
@Please...
there is a clear correlation between education level and atheism.
It is not surprising.
SciGuy73: Actually it's 0% of the population are atheists. Some people call themselves atheists – but of course they really aren't. In fact, the only true atheists are people whose brains don't work properly – who are, in fact, insane. Here's why: Your brain, if it's healthy, is not equipped to do irrational thinking. If you're standing in your yard and a rotten apple hits you, there isn't one person in 12 million who would truthfully say "Oh, that rotten apple materialized out of nothingness and hit me!" No, in fact, what any sane person would immediately think, even if he/she is an atheist is "Hey! Who threw that apple?" It doesn't, even for a second, occur to the person that the rotten apple wasn't thrown by some one or some thing. Likewise, the human brain is not equipped to really believe that there is no "First Cause" from which the Universe sprang. The overwhelming majority of those who call themselves "atheists" (or agnostics, for that matter) are simply running from the realization that, if there is a God, we are answerable to him, and such a realization causes most people to have to re-think their behavior. And BOY, do they resist doing that!
if there is a god why would it care anymore than we do about an ant?
Where was God? He had nothing to do with this shooting. God gave us all free will. Or perhaps he was on the other side of the planet dealing with more important disasters. With the amount of psychos in our society these days, God is pretty busy. Toss in all the natural and man made catastrophes, God has his hands full. God probably believes it is high time we deal with all the sick freaks on our planet and he will deal with the rest in moderation. If we want salvation, then we had better start relying on ourselves and quit expecting God to do it all. My guess, God is done with us as a whole. Leaving it up to God is not an option in today's society.
Or.....god has never existed. God is man made.
Really? Your god is too busy to handle it? It's pretty pathetic for an omnipotent deity to be unable to handle his own supposed creation.
Really? An almighty, omnipotent, all-powerful deity who created the universe in a day and the earth in a week (go figure) "as his hands full"???? Are you kidding? I am curious exactly how far you're willing to stretch the limits of your own self-justification.
"God has his hands full."??? Really??? But, if he's God, why can't he give himself more hands? Sort of an Octo-God. Which reminds me of the one about the guy who was born with 3 p-enises. His pants fit him like a glove! Ba dum bum! Here til Thursday – try the veal!
His secretary quit, it's been a real pain in the you know what to find a replacement. Temps just don't cut it.
god is fake, period. you religious nutjobs need to get a clue. worship me or burn? really? you people are brainwashed fools
Rev. Jonathan,
"Christians focus on the teaching and loving life of Christ. That's why we call ourself CHRISTians."
So why are Christians so obsessed with the Ten Commandments, trashing gays, or pretending the Bible mentions abortion?
you are a brainwashed idiot so why listen to you?
There's nothing wrong with the 10 commandment. Everybody should follow them, both religious and non-religious. Something that non-religious people may ignore is the mention of "God" and "Sabbath".
If Christians followed the 10 commandment – nobody would have every worked on a Sunday for example.
Yes, there are few Christian sects who keep the sabbath, but most don't.
Most Christians do not agree with same-s.ex marriage due to traditional reason. Not only most Christians do not agree, so do Jews and Muslims. What's next.. getting married to an animal?
Johnathan, you are an idiot. Gay marriage and beastility are completely unrelated, and you know it.
Rev. Jonathan,
Just like everyone else, you just pick and choose from the Bible. It's all HYPOCRISY.
Please try to stay on topic. Gay marriage and bestiality are two DIFFERENT topics.
No, I/We do NOT pick and choose from the holy Bible.
Jews follow Old Testament.
Christians follow New Testament.
New Testament started after Christ' birth.
Rev. Jonathan,
Jesus NEVER trashed gays.
The Bible NEVER mentioned abortion.
The Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament.
Now tell me again that Christians ONLY follow the New Testament.
Get serious.
Read the New Testament please. You will see nothing but love and great Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, not all Christians act like Christ
The true god must be Batman! With Batman, there's always one horrible crime, then there's (raspy batman voice) "JUSTICE." Just wait...
Seems to me the best thing you could say about God, if you believed He existed, would be to say that He is very clearly a hands-off sort of deity. The Holocaust ought to have made that very plain. He isn't intervening in our football games, beauty pageants, cancer treatments, wars, school examinations, college admissions or anything else on this earthly plane. He didn't come down out of the sky to stop Hitler from murdering 6 million Jews, or to stop Stalin from murdering who knows how many Russians, and He didn't come down to Aurora, CO to stop the shooting in the movie theater.
I'm not buying that only 2% of Americans are atheist.
There are probably less than that.
Cheers to the 2%!!!
@Dave,
that's what the most authoritative surveys say.
America is still not a safe place for atheism. So most of them are still in hiding.
Christians do not follow 'Old Testament' (Jewish law). We do not keep Kosher, we do not circúmcise our boys, etc.
Thank God for the New Testament!
New testament is just as bad. Jesus condones slavery. Its in your bible.
Yet so many of them believe the earth is 6,000 years old (Genesis) and that homosexuality is bad (Leviticus).
Why is this if you have left the old covenant behind?
Rev. Jonathan,
Good. We won't have to hear about how Christians are upset about the Ten Commandments anymore.
No more nonsense about gays. Great!
Interesting. You completely disavow the Old Testament? That makes teaching creationism kind of tough, doesn't it?
Christians focus on the teaching and loving life of Christ. That's why we call ourself CHRISTians.
Dave @
No, we do not completely disow the Old Testament, but we do not follow its law that Jews do. If we did, we would have still been a Jewish sect.
@Rev. J.
and so one would think. Why then do they quote chapter and verse from the OT so often?
In other words, rev, you pick and choose what to believe out of the bible? At least you admit it.
@yeahalright
and why shouldn't a "Christian" only follow the NT? With all the "I am the new covenant" talk that seems logical to me.
But wait! Explain this..."Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." MATTHEW 5:17-18 If an apostle can't blow off the Old Testament, how can you?
"Christians do not follow 'Old Testament' (Jewish law). We do not keep Kosher, we do not circúmcise our boys, etc." - rev Jonathan
That is a copout Rev. Jonathan. Jesus clearly told his followers in the New Testament to keep the Commandments. And, in In Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared, "Think NOT that I am come to destroy the Law . . ."
So can't use that.
Which means that, according to the Bilble –
– Slavery is fine.
– Selling your daughter is fine.
– Raping women and children of defeated enemies is fine.
– Women are to keep their mouths shut, pretty much.
– If you beat a slave and he lives for two days, then you did not beat him too hard (straight from God's mouth – really loving, nice guy, don't ya think?)
Why does there seem to be a deafening silence when someone points something out directly from the Bible that clearly and unequivocally contradicts the position of the believer? Why is that? Paging Rev Jonathan! Hellooo???????
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200611/article_02.htm
saladandchips.com
Only Satan would suggest a salad AND chips! True Christians would pick one or the other.
Well my name is Satan.
@ Satan – hey, didn't some English bloke – Mick Something Or Other – sing a song about you?