 |
|
|
|
 Some atheists may ask questions on the Internet that they wouldn't have asked in church.
August 1st, 2012
12:03 PM ET
'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheistsBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - The Internet has become the de facto global church for atheists, agnostics and other doubters of God, who of course don’t have bricks-and-mortar churches in which to congregate. We see this phenomenon in motion every day on the CNN Belief Blog, where atheists/agnostics/humanists are among the most zealous commenters. Recent string of posts around the question of “Where was God in Aurora?” (such as this and this) drew especially large waves of comments that show atheists are using the Internet to commune with one another and to confront religious believers in ways that they don’t usually do in church. Atheists and other secularists have offline organizations that stage in-person meetings - the Secular Student Alliance has seen its number of campus chapters quadruple in the last five years, to 368 - but the Internet has probably played a bigger role in the rise of the so-called New Atheism. The movement’s adherents evangelize their godlessness, just as many religious folks evangelize their God, often taking to the Belief Blog to do so. “A lot of millennials who are coming of age have found that the Internet is a fantastic place to talk about their doubt,” says Jesse Galef, communications director for the Secular Student Alliance. “Before the Internet, there was no place for young people to do that. The only place to go was really church, and that wasn’t always a welcoming place. “But they can go online and discuss these ideas without being judged by friends and families,” Galef says. For closeted atheists, the Internet’s anonymity is a big draw. A coalition of national atheist groups recently launched a program to transition doubting clergy to lives of open atheism by first having ministers come out anonymously in a closed online community. Plenty of other atheists, though, are using the Internet to connect with real, named people through Facebook and other online social networks. “It’s the ability to access a larger community, particularly for people growing up in religiously conservative areas,” Galef says. “There is nobody they can point to to discuss their atheism or their doubts about the Bible or their morality, and the Internet provides that.” On Sunday, a guest piece from a Colorado pastor argued that it’s possible to reconcile the idea of a sovereign God with the existence of evil and tragedy. The post has drawn 4,239 comments as of Wednesday morning, largely from atheists. One of those comments - a letter from God penned by an atheist commenter named Colin - caught fire online. Here’s how his letter opens:
The letter has been posted on reddit, where it attracted another 1,000-plus comments. (Warning: The reddit comments includes foul language.) The vast majority of comments come from sympathetic atheists and other secularists (the discussion is reddit's atheism thread), a striking example of such folks doing church without God online. Many of those comments are deeply personal, confessional and poignant. Here are five of the best ones. Some respond to Colin’s letter from God, others to the Colorado pastor who wrote for the Belief Blog last weekend.
That comment, which has been truncated above, provoked an outpouring of sympathy and support on reddit, including this comment:
soundoff (4,699 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 Next »
« Previous entry'Veiled TV' makes debut in Egypt
|
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
"Recent string of posts around the question of “Where was God in Aurora?” (such as this and this) drew especially large waves of comments that show atheists are using the Internet to commune with one another and to confront religious believers in ways that they don’t usually do in church."
Riiiight, because were Atheists, you see.. So we don't go to churches... So confronting you in churches wouldn't make much sense.
Yah, that part made made laugh.
The sad truth is that Atheists have replaced the worship of God with worship of themselves. In doing so , they relegate man – the noblest of God's creation – to animal status!
Science is wonderful, though it's not exact. The Universe is incredible; Nature is beautiful and they were all created by God – for man. Man thanks God by stealing the credit for himself!
Anything we do; everything we discover; All that we think we understand – are only possible because we have the brain that God gave us.But then again , it DOES take intelligence to analyze; reason and apply logic with an open mind. Atheists are like trams – following the tracks to the end of the line. No turns, no exploration, no adventure.
"it DOES take intelligence to analyze; reason and apply logic with an open mind."
Yes. That's why the Bible NEVER encourages that. It's all "follow exactly what I say or go to hell".
"Science is wonderful, though it's not exact. The Universe is incredible; Nature is beautiful and they were all created by God – for man. Man thanks God by stealing the credit for himself!"
eh? We take credit for creating the universe? Oh, that's NOT what you meant... Funny, I thought you were trying to say we were taking credit for something you believe a "god" did... which would pretty much be creating the universe.
Your a religious person and you call yourself chicagothug. Ok and you wonder why people think your nuts!
@Observer:
Actually it is more along the lines of "Do as I say, not as I do".
ArthurP,
Yes, but we can save killing, incest, and hypocrisy for later.
And on the 8th day God created the Internet. And he filled it with p0rn that man may enjoy its fruits.
And exactly how do we worship ourselves?
I have known people that have been clinically dead and brought back to life. They have the most incredible stories of peace from the other side. There is no question about it, just talk to someone who has experienced life in a clinically dead body.
Hey no problem, I run across people like that every day!
The Sick. The Dying. The Dead. Spend more time around them and you will learn a few things that The Well, The Recovered, and The Living can't tell you.
@Roaster
Hi -Roaster...
" I have known people that have been clinically dead and brought back to life. They have the most incredible stories of peace from the other side. There is no question about it, just talk to someone who has experienced life in a clinically dead body."
Yep... I have had an NDE... however, the 'mistake' that some often make is 'a-s-s uming' *without question* that = continuation of existence...'indefinitely'.
Maybe... maybe not.
Peace...
Any of them come back and give a report on Hell?
Surely plenty of "non-believers" have been hit with the paddles, and brought back ....
i don't see the big deal in near death experiences. I have one everyday trying to cross a street in New York.
The more times I quote Jesus, the more real he becomes. He's kinda like the Tinkerbell of Gods. Clap your hands if you believe people!
There's no excuse for using someone else's name and especially when they do bad by themselves. Grow up.
And just like Tinkerbell he is not real. He is only a character in a book. Just like Tinkerbell.
Just a light joke Obs. Smile every once in a while.
I like the sound of my own voice.
That's nice, because you are the only one listening.
God was in Aurora because God sent the shooter to Aurora. Phony 'Christians' say that God didn't do that. Anyone who has actually read the Bible knows that He did.
Wrong.
It's amazing G-od has time to do anything after all he's watching 7 billion people.
It's funny how all gods behave like the people who created them.
Don't believe in God? Ok, but you better be right.
@BFW
Look up and 'learn'... Pascals Wager argument, and 'why' it is not a real valid argument.
Peace...
I can handle that.
BFW,
This is another tired repeti.tion of Pascal's Wager - thoroughly refuted since the 17th century
- What if the real "God" is Allah, or Vishnu, or Zeus, or Quetzalcoatl, or any of the other of thousands which have been dreamed up over the centuries? Some of them are very jealous and vengeful and will relegate you to nasty places for not worshiping them. You'd better cover your butt by believing in ALL of them and fulfill their wishes and demands.
- What if the real "God" prefers those who use logic and reason and punishes you as a silly sycophant?
- What if the real "God" detests those who believe something just to cover their butts in eternity?
There have been over 10,000 different gods since the dawn of humanity. You better be right about that particular one you're worshiping. Better be ... ahem... damned right.
Don't believe in Zeus , Ra, Odin, etc..ok, but YOU BETTER BE RIGHT...
If I'm wrong I'll come back and tell you.
Hell yeah I better be right, or I am going to owe a lot of people a lot of money on this bet.
A relatively decent and balanced article in a forum that generally caters to the followers of the Invisible Sky Friends club. I do appreciate this even if I snark a bit.
When a child is hurt or scared, a loving parent is right there, doing everything he or she can do to reassure and protect the child. There is no "Well, it was your free will that caused you to decide to pour boiling water on yourself", they just give unquestionable love and care that no one doubts is there or has to be explained by sophistry and elaborate philosophical arguments that few accept even after hundreds of years of debate.
If a fallible, sinful, totally depraved(Calvinisim) human can do this, then where indeed is this all loving all powerful being you say cares about even the least of us. This being whose love is supposedly as much greater than our own human love as a mother's love for her newborn child exceeds the love a stranger has for an insect on the far side of thew world.
I see no God in this event or in many other events of a terrible nature. I see no god in 9/11 lest I see the god of Islam since ten million prayed it not happen and 12 prayed that it might happen and it did happen and I will nor follow such a blood-soaked deity even if it was real.
A million priests of a thousand religions will each assure you he or she has the truth and the straight dope on the real god and what he or she wants. But then they always demand you make the checks out to them personally or even better: Cash and in unmarked bills. Non-denominational simply means they don't care if it's tens or twenties.
I see crazy religious psychos everywhere...
I am a former Catholic, turned agnostic, turned born again Christian. I came to Christ because of supernatural occurrences in my own life and am still a Christian after 30 years because of evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ and many other reasons too numerous to list here. It seems that many times it is because God does not fit into the mold of who we think He should be, that we believe He does not exist. There are probably many better explanations than what the pastor gave for the tragic deaths but the bottom line is that God allowed it to happen just like every other tragic death since the beginning with the most tragic death being that of Jesus Christ, God in the flesh so He understands first hand the pain. He wants us to run to Him personally for help but instead we run away or just deny His existence. That is the saddest thing of all.
Care to share some of that "evidence" on zombie Jesus?
But you must have had some reason for being agnostic for a time. Thinking that someone else has come to a different conclusion than you have is the saddest thing of all does not really make sense. Just be happy for you, maybe, and let others work on their life.
Until we can all see his long form birth certificate there is no real proof that he ever existed.
+1 for Aurthur
If I see a house burning, I will pull the fire alarm and try to save people whether or not they believe in me or love me or had just told me to go to hell. I think in that almost any human being is a better person than any god you care to posit.
Humans have and will continue to die to save other humans, even strangers, knowing there's no one around to wave a magic wand and make them come back to life afterwards. That is far greater love than a hoax death by a god who knew he'd come back to life since he set the entire scheme up long before the events, if they even occurred.
Your own conviction that is was real is of no more value than any other person's conviction that Allah or Krishna or Ahura Mazda is real.
"The invisible and the non-existent are very hard to tell apart."
Good one ArthurP 🙂
G-man, if god doesn't help in bad situations (clearly she/he didn't help in all the atrocities) then why does one need god? Why waste time in believing in her/him? Well, if it makes you feel better then it is a different story but that doesn't mean there is a real god.
G-man, if god doesn't help in bad situations (clearly she/he didn't help in all the atrocities) then why does one need god? Why waste time in believing in her/him? Well, if it makes you feel better to have an invisible crutch then it is a different story but that doesn't mean there is a real god.
"I grew up religious and decided to be agnostic (as an) undergraduate. Even though I am now in my late 20s, I still feel slightly guilty because my parents try to ram religion down my throat. My mom converted to my dad's religion (from Christianity to Islam) right before having a double lung transplant in 1995. They are now super-religious and attribute her miraculous recovery to her conversion.
"Reading posts like these remind me of how ridiculous religion is and help relieve my guilt. Thank you /r/athiesm."
–
Your mom converted to a pe.dophiles cult religion. She will burn in hell fire.
Are you interested in discussing the problems with your own religion?
@In,
So are you so incredibly IGNORANT to claim he is a pedophile? Answer before you go hide again.
Funny. That's exactly how 1.5 billion Muslims feel about you and your fellow Christians. Their god gave them a book too, you know.
"our mom converted to a pe.dophiles cult religion. She will burn in hell fire."
Only a religious person would make such a pronouncement. Very telling.
I thought you went to sleep. Are you posting in your sleep? That would explain a few things.
Open your heart and let His Noodly Appendage touch you. It is your only way to salvation. You are a retched, sinful soul who is unworthy of salvation otherwise. Accept the Great FSM.
At least nobody knows about it. We have our God in YOUR money 🙂
The men who created our country did not put "In God We Trust" on it.
Which is kind of ironic considering good Christians feel that money is the root of all evil. Then again maybe it isn't.
Gotta love pastafarianism. Makes as much sense as Christianity.
Not only that but after you have eaten of the Body the Great FSM you are fully nourished for real.
@ArthurP
LOL...unless you're a 'diabetic'... then probably...not so much 😀
Peace...
""I never know whether I should say "Agnostic" or whether I should say "Atheist". It is a very difficult question and I daresay that some of you have been troubled by it. As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God."
Bertrand Russell
...and there never will be.
Tony's,
He didn't believe but he did not know so he was an agnostic atheist. The terms are not mutually exclusive.
Agnostics are atheists. Atheism simply refers to the lack of belief in a god, not a belief that there is no god. The term agnostic is used a lot because it has less negative connotations–believers still think you might be open to their god even when you've logically ruled him/her out–but in many respects it's a much more defined stance than atheism. Agnosticism suggests that, not only do we not know if there's a god, we'll probably never know for sure. Atheism doesn't presuppose that.
Wow...you guys know more about semantics than Bertrand Russell...did you not read his quote?...it destroys your argument totally...the problem with the average athiest is that they are not quite as brilliant as they think they are.
Tonyn:
Huh? All I can figure based on your statement is that you think atheism means one believes there is no god. That simply ain't true. The quote you've provided doesn't even address our "argument," let alone "destroy" it.
Agnostic or atheist. It doesn't matter. Bottom line: Nobody is coming to save your A**
Please read Russell's quote again...slowly if you need to...He describes the difference between an Athiest and an Agnostic...they are mutually exclusive philosophical positions by definition.
Tonyn,
Look up the origins of the words.
Gnostic/agnostic goes to knowledge.
Theism/atheism goes to belief
Belief and knowledge are not the same nor are they opposite.
It is really not as hard as you are making it.
I am familiar with the etymology of the terms in question. Lord Russell quite clearly expalins in the quote why he can not call himself an Athiest...because he believes it impossible to disprove the existence of god. An Athiest, by definition, believes that there is no god. An Agnostic claims it is impossible to know one way or the other. They are mutually exclusive positions...it is really not that difficult...if this were not so, why does Russell make the distintction so clearly? Keep in mind that Russell is one of the greatest logicians in the history of modern Philosophy. You are not arguing with me. You are arguing with him. That takes some chutzpah...but then... so does calling oneself an Atheist...
From Oxford Dictionaries:
"Definition of atheist
noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods:
he is a committed atheist"
To Mr. Gilgoff,
1. A place to meet and discuss something does not make it a "church" - de facto or otherwise.
2. As an agnostic, I do not doubt the existence of any of the thousands gods than man has ever invented - I know it. There is no proof or any tangible evidence that any of them exist, therefore to the *best of human knowledge* they don't.
3. Your hateful rant is very unchristian-like. However, the mythological being to which you choose to enslave yourself does not exist, so it won't be able to punish you.
4. If your god did exist and it was benevolent, it would not seek your worship and praise, or use fear - only a tyrant does.
Regards,
DJL
See quote above.
You cannot prove that something does not exist - Science 101. Therefore, the burden of proof to the existence of something rests with the one making the claim of existence. So until it is PROVEN to exist it is not KNOWN to exist.
I'm going to sleep now and not wasting my time here debating with idiots (atheists)
Yep. Can't take the heat.
An idiot is someone who blindly accepts something. Someone who questions everything - including absolute authority - is a wise person.
In God we Trust – I don't blame you.
Observer – As Jesus said – When discussing the one true Faith, if people won't listen, leave them; shake the dust of their house off your feet; and visit them no more!
Nobody's "giving in" – just obeying Jesus.
Atheists are idiots? Really? How do you manage to prove your beliefs in a supernatural deity that controls everything and yet controls nothing. I pity you for your ignorance.
Psst . . . You're not debating; you're trollololing.
Stay classy my god-less friends.Easy with the name calling.We got em' on the run!Peace!
Atheists could fool themselves as much as they want.... Life's short baby. Don't cry on your judgement day.
Does Judgement Day include telling lies and making up things?
Pascal's Wager? You'll need to do better than that. Look it up, it's a terribly flawed argument.
We aren't the ones that got "fooled"..
Sure, this all knowing, all powerful, LOVING god was there that night. And he WATCHED what happened, could have stopped it but did not. You know with a father this loving, it's a wonder we aren't all dead.
If a human father KNEW something was going to happen to his child, had the power to stop it and did not, watched it happen and did nothing, we'd have him up on charges in a NY minute. But because this is a sky fairy god, we say 'It was god's will'. Well what it is is a bunch of crap. If this is the kind of loving father we have, please, put me up for adoption. I don't WANT a father that HAS the power to stop horrible things, but CHOOSES not to.
You people talk but you are totally unaware of what christianity teaches. In the christian world view their would be a judgment day when God would do justice but on the atheist world view what hope do you have that justice will be served.
Excellent, Mike!
@Mike
Hi -Mike...
" In the christian world view their would be a judgment day when God would do justice but on the atheist world view what hope do you have that justice will be served. "
What is this 'justice' that you are speaking of ?
Peace...
@Mike – Have you ever heard of a run-on sentence? You're not very literate, are you? As for Lily – what do I say to Lily, who, along with Mike, can probably muster a few dozen higher functioning brain cells? Great minds think alike, and fools rarely (or never) differ. The BORG are here – they are you.
That's the trick bag in having creating man with a free will. As horrible as these tragedies are to us living through them , in the light of millions of years, it's a blip on the screen.
@Mike
Sooo what you are saying is that we shouldn't punish criminals because at some hazy undetermined point in the future some hazy undetermined deity is going to punish them?
Bravo! Sherri.
Mike,
In your Christian world view mass murders just have to confess their sins and believe and they get paradise....where as I can live a moral life but find Christianity absurd and I get eternal punishment.
Please explain how that is just?
@Mike You know why people ridicule religion. Because of people like you. People like you make G-od out to be paranoid, vengeful, hateful, self centered etc. In other words JUST LIKE PEOPLE. We see it every time a religious person speaks. They see G-od as they themselves are.
@Mike said "You people talk but you are totally unaware of what christianity teaches. In the christian world view their would be a judgment day when God would do justice but on the atheist world view what hope do you have that justice will be served."
I'm curious, Mike. Which is better, to stop a murderer from killing someone, or to convict and punish him after the fact? So if god is capable of performing either action and chooses to do the one that allows for evil, doesn't that make him complicit in the evil?
Christians need God because they do not have the strength of character to lead a good and decent life without the possibility of encoring His wrath should they not.
I think it takes more strength to accept that we are sinners and we need God
Arthur must agree with killing and stealing as well as cheating.
No that is a form of self abuse.
† In God We Trust †
Never killed anyone, saved a persons life once though, been married for 40+ years never cheated and never stole anything.
Although a quick search of Google shows any number of supposedly 'good' Christians who have done all three all down through the ages in fact I even know a couple personally.
@† In God We Trust †
" Arthur must agree with killing and stealing as well as cheating. " 😯
W – T – F ?!?!? Holy Non-Sequitur !
Peace...
Mike claims – "I think"
I say Mike does not think at all, but lets his comic book do his thinking for him.
Arthur, do you believe that there is no God ?
There could be a god....just not yours