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 Some atheists may ask questions on the Internet that they wouldn't have asked in church.
August 1st, 2012
12:03 PM ET
'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheistsBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - The Internet has become the de facto global church for atheists, agnostics and other doubters of God, who of course don’t have bricks-and-mortar churches in which to congregate. We see this phenomenon in motion every day on the CNN Belief Blog, where atheists/agnostics/humanists are among the most zealous commenters. Recent string of posts around the question of “Where was God in Aurora?” (such as this and this) drew especially large waves of comments that show atheists are using the Internet to commune with one another and to confront religious believers in ways that they don’t usually do in church. Atheists and other secularists have offline organizations that stage in-person meetings - the Secular Student Alliance has seen its number of campus chapters quadruple in the last five years, to 368 - but the Internet has probably played a bigger role in the rise of the so-called New Atheism. The movement’s adherents evangelize their godlessness, just as many religious folks evangelize their God, often taking to the Belief Blog to do so. “A lot of millennials who are coming of age have found that the Internet is a fantastic place to talk about their doubt,” says Jesse Galef, communications director for the Secular Student Alliance. “Before the Internet, there was no place for young people to do that. The only place to go was really church, and that wasn’t always a welcoming place. “But they can go online and discuss these ideas without being judged by friends and families,” Galef says. For closeted atheists, the Internet’s anonymity is a big draw. A coalition of national atheist groups recently launched a program to transition doubting clergy to lives of open atheism by first having ministers come out anonymously in a closed online community. Plenty of other atheists, though, are using the Internet to connect with real, named people through Facebook and other online social networks. “It’s the ability to access a larger community, particularly for people growing up in religiously conservative areas,” Galef says. “There is nobody they can point to to discuss their atheism or their doubts about the Bible or their morality, and the Internet provides that.” On Sunday, a guest piece from a Colorado pastor argued that it’s possible to reconcile the idea of a sovereign God with the existence of evil and tragedy. The post has drawn 4,239 comments as of Wednesday morning, largely from atheists. One of those comments - a letter from God penned by an atheist commenter named Colin - caught fire online. Here’s how his letter opens:
The letter has been posted on reddit, where it attracted another 1,000-plus comments. (Warning: The reddit comments includes foul language.) The vast majority of comments come from sympathetic atheists and other secularists (the discussion is reddit's atheism thread), a striking example of such folks doing church without God online. Many of those comments are deeply personal, confessional and poignant. Here are five of the best ones. Some respond to Colin’s letter from God, others to the Colorado pastor who wrote for the Belief Blog last weekend.
That comment, which has been truncated above, provoked an outpouring of sympathy and support on reddit, including this comment:
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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It's called NOT GETTING MURDERED. Of course atheists have taken to "practicing their faith" (which is to say using logic to communicate, that's the only faith) on the internet. Many centuries of christians murdering those who do not share their divine vision makes the internet a new safe haven for atheists.
Atheists place our trust in logic and reason because those things have a proven track record of working. The kind of faith that believers rely on is nothing like this in measured practice.
Our logic and reason are not as iron clad as you think. Just some basic questions would be. Where and how did protine molecules form? How about the cell? The universe why did it start? We have theroies that discribe these from the point after they exist. IE big bang, nothing prior to that. Or evolution Really look at the cell how it works how did it come to being. These questions have not and will most likely never get answered (proven)by science. this is where faith comes in. I can believe what some human scientist thinks. Or I can believe in GOD the creator of everything.
I do believe the previously mentioned theories are sound in many areas and those area may be correct. This does not mean GOD did not lay down all the laws of nature.
But I guess for some it is easier to believe a person. Me I believe in GOD. Therories are just that, not fact.
Eric
Why do you think the universe needed a reason to start? Does a rock need a reason to tumble down a hill other than gravity? In nature, things do happen because of natural causes.
Sure, God could have laid down the laws of nature, but so could any of the other creator gods. What we are learning from science, however, is that no intelligent designer was needed to lay down these laws. They could have came about naturally. Adding some creator to the process makes it far more complicated, and improbable because you have to explain where that being came from. Religious people like to just say that this creator must have always existed, but that's still more complicated than an unintelligent universe starting from the most simple form coming into being all by itself. That's why I reject the eternal creator story; it's just too complicated and improbable.
Everything that we know about God came from a person. The Bible was written by people, and the rest of what we know comes from people's "experiences" with God, so I don't understand your argument against the reliability of "people".
Science is based on observations of nature, is tested, and peer reviewed. There is evidence supporting scientific theories. They stand as the explanations that best fit the evidence. When ancient people created their creation stories they didn't really know how the universe was actually created; they were telling a story to convey some religious truth. In the Genesis story we are told how sin entered the world, why women must be subservient to men, why the Jews kept the Sabbath holy, and why men have dominion over the world. That's what the story is about, right?
I've yet to see an Atheistic Organization help others out simply from the goodness of their hearts. One did give food to the homeless once but only to out do Christians.
It's good to feed the hungry and heal the sick. What a pity your mythical god won't do it.
What atheist organizations do you know – I don't know of any at all.
Then you haven't searched enough. There are plenty of Atheist organizations that do charity work.
Atheists don't act charitably in the name of atheism. They support all sorts of charities, both secular and sometimes even religious ones (my town's only hospital is Catholic, and is supported by everyone here – religious or non).
Have you ever heard of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet?... atheist/agnostic and probably the largest donators ever.
Then there are oodles upon oodles of secular charities. Did you know that the Red Cross and St. Jude's Hospital are secular organizations?
Why do you see charity as some kind of compet.ition? Christians didn't invent the concept of charity, you know? Other religions have been doing charity since their very beginnings, some before Christianity was invented. Were they just trying to "out do" the churches?
Good news! Go to these websites and you won't have the excuse of now knowing about any atheist charities anymore!
http://www.squidoo.com/Atheist-Charities
http://techskeptic.blogspot.com/2007/12/atheist-charities.html
So many beliefs, so many theories, how to make sense of it all? Go back...start with basic reasoning...."Every house is constructed by someone..."
Child: Daddy, does god send people to hell to be tortured forever?
Father: Yes sweet heart.
Child: Why daddy?
Father: Because they don't believe in him
Child: But daddy, I have never seen god, I don't believe in him either
Father: Well, sweet heart, you are going to burn in hell.
Every house is built by human hands. The earth was not. It formed. Yes, by "itself", based upon gravitational tides with the material created by previous generations of dead stars. I guess, next you will expect us to "believe" that storms do not come about due to chaotic wind and moisture patterns that form in the atmosphere due to rising convection currents, cold air from the upper atmosphere and moisture from previous evaporation in the water cycle, but some invisible man who lives in the sky "makes it rain by opening the floodgates and allowing waters down from the firmament"?
When people were still ignorant, they believed thunder and lightning was coused by the gods. Now we know better.
Who is the bonehead that put this picture with this article? Showing a church when talking about atheists doesn't make sense. There's that great christian logic, just like cross burning before a lynching. I'm an atheist, this is how an atheist writes, SAFE behind a computer, so I'M NOT AFRAID OF BEING MURDERED BY A CHRISTIAN,MUSLIM, JEW, etc.
@ One one
You are twisting the truth. Godly father would never say to his child that God sends people to hell because they "don't believe in Him. He would say that people are sent to hell because they refused God's mercy and rejected His son whom He sent to save them.
@Nope!,
" He would say that people are sent to hell because they refused God's mercy and rejected His son whom He sent to save them."
You only get that "mercy" if you believe. What other reality can possibly work that way? You don't need to believe in gravity for it to work. You don't need to believe that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. Shall we stop believing in cancer so that we won't ever get it?
ThingsEvenChildrenKnow
"Every house is constructed by someone..."
Which is followed logically by "Every God is created by another God ..." See the problem?
Look, what if
you were given certain abilities from your Creator, by which you are able to recognize the truth from false f right from wrong, when presented to you. If by your own Self-will you rejected that ability, proclaiming yourself to be wiser than your Creator, then you are cut off from the Source! And without this Source, you are as good as dead, or better said, you're Walking Dead! And in this state of being you can not hear, can not see and can not think. You only function at your physical level, till you physically die, crossing over to another chapter of your existence. Then your Self will have no "rights" to claim!
When you encounter someone who professes to be an Atheist, take the most personally advantageous action: eat him. Atheists are high in protein and a good source of B vitamins and amino acids. Do not allow yourself to be apprehended by the authorities until the Atheist is recgonized as a game animal by the state. Remember, you have nothing to fear except law enforcement as long as you have braised, roasted or broiled the Atheist to an internal temperature of at least 180 degrees. They are also good in casseroles and fricassees.
Atheists are a small and weak minority who should be exploited.
Make no mistake...I am an Atheist myself...but I will never reveal that to the world. It serves my interests to call myself a Christian in order to further my purposes.
Do not bore me with notions of how I should obey my "inner moral sense". My moral sense is nothing but a biological construct, a primitive survival advantage I have outgrown...much like I have outgrown the need for God. I can discard them both easily...they are worthless to me now...After all, God Is Dead and the only good is what is good for ME. I am the Superman. I am beyond Good and Evil.
Is it not delightful that the three most influential Atheists in history are, in no particular order:
Lenin
Stalin
Nietzsche?
Nietzsche: the philosophical godfather of Fascism.
Lenin,: the creator of communism.
Stalin: arch 20th century proponent of “humanistic principles”.
The result of their “humanistic philosophies”?
At LEAST 100 million dead.
The time span:? 53 years between the death of Nietzsche and the death of Stalin.
None of them killed in the name of atheism. Your fake god and the armies of god have done more than their share of killing. What was their excuse?
Blah, blah, blah, trollcakes.
it’s possible the air in your room right now could spontaneously all move in the same direction at once, piling up in the other side of the room leaving you gasping for air. Possible, yes. But when calculated, the probability is so small as to be reasonably rounded off to zero (it’s not going to happen, so breathe easy).
A similar argument against evolution applies to the probability of events occurring which result in new species (mutations, natural selection and spontaneous generation). That probability is zero (when rounded off reasonably). It’s mathematically possible, but the expectation is so low we logically round it down to zero and state the event is never going to occur.
@Chad: I can't comprehend how natural selection works but I can cut and past meaningless analogies from the interweb....therefore....JESUS IS LORD!!!!! SEE THERE, I PROVED IT!!!!! HA HA YOU ALL LOOK SO FOOLISH!!!!!
@Chad, A very intelligent post.
🙂
Why do you assume that the probability of evolution is so low? Who calculated that figure?
Chad obviously knows nothing of Physics, or Genetics, yet went and received the latest H1N1 vaccine.
Therefore the probability of him making a relevant comment about Physics or Genetics is so small, we must round it to zero.
Atheists don't have "bricks & mortar because we don't get all the privileges of tax exemption that religions enjoy. Why should WE be paying for YOUR delusions? We shouldn't. If your falling numbers mean you get no churches remaining then that is what should happen.
If Atheists had a church, what would they get together to praise and worship? Their newest pair of khakis?
We would build Humanist centers (what atheists DO believe) to replace the good side of religion while not propagating the harmful delusions that religion expounds.
I would love to attend your first "Humanist Center" picnic. I enjoy eating outdoors.
What is this need to "praise and worship"? When we get together once a month, it's to organize benefit concerts, food drives, blood drives and charity events. We also have speakers and book signings, but service to humanity is the primary goal.
Prove to me that God does not exist.
Don't need to. People have worshipped thousands of gods over time, and stopped believing that most of them were actually real without having it "proven" to them. The case for God being real is about as strong as that for any other god, so it just isn't enough to convince us. If you want to convince us that he's more real than any of the others it's up to you to provide the additional evidence necessary.
The Atheist indicts god based solely on what happens in what is, cosmologically speaking, the blink of an eye. There is suffering by transient biological forms for an instant in time: therefore there can be no god. Atheists seem fond of contemplating the vastness of the universe, but incapable of admitting there is a lot of real estate to cover in the quest for the divine: spatially as well as temporally. If you were the creator of a universe 100 billion light years in diameter, that probably is also multi-dimensional as well as eternal, would you hang around trying to impress a group of arrogant primates who a milli-second ago were brachiating among the tress of Africa?
Answer: Logical fallacy. Prove that Zeus doesn't exist. Should we worship ALL the things that can't be proven not to exist?
So Modest is a Deist. He doesn't believe in the Bible (based on his description of the universe) but accepts only one of it's premises despite zero evidence...that a Creator exists.
Even worse for him...all evidence currently shows our Universe' beginnings were indeed natural.
Parable of the Celestial Teapot. Look it up.
Prove to me that dragons do not exist.
Justin, there is God, and you don't have to be afraid of dying. Whether you said this with touch of sarcasm or you meant it, the truth is, we all fear dying.....because we fear things we haven't experienced.
I for example, fear that dying is painful.
But if you know Lord Jesus Christ and put your faith in Him, you do not need to fear death, because those who die in Him, will pass from death into Life!
We will pass from death into life! And Hershey Kisses will rain down from the sky! And everyone gets a pony! And, and...what?...there's just as much evidence for my story as yours. We can all just make stuff up and say that's what happens, right?
Manda, pray that Christ would open your eyes that you may see!
Nope!
Did you just ask someone to prey to a god for the ability to believe in the god that you just asked them to prey to? Logic isn't exactly your strong suit, is it?
Manda, you left out the unicorns.
"Logic isn't exactly your strong suit, is it?"
Wisdom isn't yours, for sure....
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. But FOOL has said in HIS HEART that there is no God!
Why his heart? Because it is in heart that all rebellion and sin dwells , which causes him to be blind to the Truth.
@Nope!:
A quite old and sometimes effective tactic – declaring that those who do not believe your story are 'fools'. Nobody wants to be considered a fool. Nobody wants to be considered 'dumb' for not seeing the Emperor's new clothes, or a 'bas.tard' for not seeing the Sultan's new turban, or a 'cuckold' for not being able to see the Miller's gold thumb.
Even Joseph Smith used it when he gathered his 'witnesses' to his golden plates. He told them that only those with 'true faith' would be able to 'see' them, and they would be fools if they could not.
The ancient, primitive Hebrews who originated those Bible stories were quite adept at manipulative mind-games.
This is a forum where fools come to entertain themselves bashing Christians!
Making your father, the Devil happy, aren't you!
We don't believe in the devil, leprechauns, or the tooth fairy, making your point moot.
Rick, you don't know what you believe!
but whether you do believe or not it doesn't affect truth, but it does affects YOU, your life and your destiny.
God is who He is, and you and I are who and what He says we are.... Devil is God's enemy and deceiver of mankind. And no, here is no leprechauns!
How do you KNOW there are no leprechauns? Have YOU looked everywhere? PROVE to me that leprechauns do not exist! 🙂
Poor, silly Nope. Still thinks that there are things to BELIEVE in.
People need to stop blaming God for the bad things that happen in this world.
all good things as well as bad things that happen in our lives have meaning and purpose and our conscious minds don't fully understand that it's part of the masterplan – the destiny of our souls. One day when we depart this dimension the our own astroplane and arrive home, In the end everything will make sense. Karma on a grand level.
How do you know everything happens for a purpose? What access to knowledge do you have that has been denied me for you to make such an unsubstantiated claim? If everything didn't happen for a purpose, we would expect to see bad things happen to good people and bad people be rewarded for their bad deeds, and that's exactly what we do see.
Or we will know nothing.
"Or we will know nothing."
Oh, you will know, be sure of that ..............There their worm(soul) never dies!
Nope, "Oh, you will know, be sure of that .."
Evidence for that?
"Evidence for that"
Seek and you shall find!
Nope!
"Seek and you shall find!"
In other words "Believe first, then invent evidence to support your faith."
@ Sim34 – Yep!
You believe YOU exist, don't you. Do you ever consider that it may be more to your existence than just your five senses and your physical body? Tat would be a start! But as long as you go to lame experts to give you answers, you'll remain lame just as they are!
"Nope", I am certain there are a lot of things in the universe that I am unaware of and that are greater than me. There are things on earth that fit that description. However, there is no evidence to support the existence of a supernatural supreme being. Nor is there evidence that supernatural being had anything to do with the creation of the universe, the creation of the Earth, or indeed, the relatively insignificant lives of the humans on this planet.
You chose to believe in something that gives you comfort, but that belief has zero basis in reality. I have never found comfort in lies, even pretty ones. You can believe whatever you want, by my belief goes where the facts lead.
If you are in a plane crash where only a couple of people survive, I would say who did depends more on where you are sitting and where the stress of impact occurred rather than some divine intervention. Why bad things happen to good people? (Well, bad things happen to bad people also.) This is a question which is difficult to answer for Christians who always want to find some grace in tragedy. There is no grace there and this was simply a horrible event. But I think it is wonderful that the Internet allows many doubters to express their views here as we become a more open society. In the past they didn't have the chance to meet or discuss their views and felt a bit isolated. Today there are organizations for non-believers such as http://www.secular.org that have meetings and interesting projects and just good conversation..
Personally, I don't think we can blame God for these killings anymore than we should give him credit for the survivors. He seems to stay out of almost every human event. He doesn't do much that I am aware of.
@georgex:
The Atheist indicts god based solely on what happens in what is, cosmologically speaking, the blink of an eye. There is suffering by transient biological forms for an instant in time: therfore there can be no god. They seem fond of contemplating the vastness of the universe, but incapable of admitting that there is a lot of real estate to cover in the quest for the divine: spatially as well as temporally. If you were the creator of a universe 100 billion light years in diameter, that probably is also multi-dimensional as well as eternal, would you hang around trying to impress a group of arrogant primates who a milli-second ago were brachiating among the tress of Africa?
@Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer
Since god, the creator is so unbelievably complicated and powerfual as to have created a universe 100 Billion light years across, imagine how incredible His creator was! I mean he couldn't have just come into existance, right?
Hey. Stop all your critical thinking now.
@happy jack:
The problem of first cause exists whether one is speaking of theology or physics.
Creation ex nihlo?
I cannot say. Either the universe or god is eternal or somehow self-generating...the problem of explanation in the sphere of mundane logic exists regardless.
@Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer
Ahhhh, but of the two of us, I say I don't know.
I don't know, either. Do you have a point?
Also, I tink infinite regress of a more and more complicated creator is less likely than a universe that came from nothing. You know many well know scientists are gravitating toward this hypothesis.
If you are not an atheist, then you do know, or did I come into this conversation late, like that guy on the Big Labowski?
Every advance in the field of physics only unearths more mysteries. Perhaps one day Pandora's ultimate box will be opened and there will be a tootsie-roll center...I cannot say.
I fudged a little...I am actually an Agnostic/ Atheist who is also, like Voltaire, a master Theist.
Gotcha. 🙂 I'll save it for a real theist.
Oh, make no mistake.. I am a real Thiest. I believe in an ultimate consciousness that is latent in the very fabric of the universe.
@Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer
OK. I'm not.
Later...
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails just call me Lucifer
I'm in need of some restraint
So if you meet me, have some courtesy
Have some sympathy and some taste
Use all your well learned politics
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, mmm yeah
Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer
If there is so much "real estate to cover in the quest for the divine" just think of how many places all the other gods could be hiding?
Religion is the main cause of evil in this world.
Just ask the two innocent people in the middle east that were put in a hole and stoned to death this week by religious freaks.
Where was your "loving" god then? Or their "loving god?"
Someone said we are going to burn in hell.....so I'm all for it as long as there aren't any religious nuts there. You have created hell on earth for the rest of us.
Dull atheist, could a giddy dance
Of atoms lawless hurl’d
Construct so wonderful, so wise,
So harmonised a world?
Charles Darwin
Yes
@Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer:
Organic life beneath the shoreless waves
Was born and nurs'd in ocean's pearly caves;
First forms minute, unseen by spheric glass,
Move on the mud, or pierce the watery mass;
These, as successive generations bloom,
New powers acquire and larger limbs assume;
Whence countless groups of vegetation spring,
And breathing realms of fin and feet and wing.
Erasmus Darwin; The Temple of Nature; 1804.
Belief in the process of evolution by natural selection is not incompatable with belief in diety.
@Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer
That statement is correct. Did you mean to follow that up with something else?
@happy jack:
No, but thanks for asking.
One of my sons, a devout Christian, once enumerated the views someone could have on evolution and still be considered a Christian. However, science never refers to a deity in its version of the story, which begins about 5 billion years ago, before our solar system existed, even before the materials for making it existed. It then tells how the materials came into being in the nuclear crucible of a collapsing star which eventually exploded, spewing its contents into a gigantic cloud of molecular hydrogen, then how our solar system was formed and began to take shape about 4.5-billion years ago. How the initially molten Earth cooled and crusted over, then was covered by water which came in the tails of the numerous comets and "space snowballs" that kept up a relentless bombardment of the primordial Earth, until a warm salt-free ocean covered all (or nearly all) of the earth, which as yet had no high mountains. Then, how 3.9-billion years ago the first life forms appeared, a simple bacterium, called a prokaryote, which had the unique feature that it did not need to die unless it was killed, It gradually evolved into something like the green slime you can still see on damp stones. The prokaryotes ruled for narly two billion years, then a new life form appeared (how is highly controversial). It was the cell wit a nucleus and an evolutionary explosion ensued.
When you encounter someone who professes to be an Atheist take the most expedient and most personally advantageous action: eat him. They are high in protein and a good source of B vitamins and amino acids.
Just do not allow yourself to be apprehended by the authorities until the eating of Atheists is fully regonized and sanctioned by the state. Remember, you have nothing to fear except law enforcement.... as long as you have braised, roasted or broiled the Atheist to an internal temperature of at least 180 degrees. They are also good in a casseroles and fricasses.
Atheists are a small and weak minority who should be exploited.
Make no mistake...I am an Atheist myself...but I will never reveal that to the world. It serves my interests best to call myself a Christian in order to further my purposes.
Do not bore me with ideas about how I should obey my "inner moral sense". My moral sense is nothing but a biological construct, a primitive survival advantge I have out grown...much like I have out grown the need for God. I can discard them both easily...they are wothless to me now...After all, God Is Dead and the only good is what is good for ME. I am the Superman. I am beyond Good and Evil.
You have to be a fool to look around at all the perfection before you and call it the work of a mythological sky-fairy.
Wow, Dan the Religion Editor sure is sensitive! How about "Is being an editor church for cowards?" Call me some more names, Mister Christian; I can feel the LUV.
Religion editor....comic book editor...fairy tale editor...
Same gig.
I like to challenge you to ask God (even if you think He doesn't exist)to show you the real truth to it all. That's it but how many of you a brave enough to do that?
@doihave2,
Do you really think people haven't tried that?
Already done it (several decades ago) still waiting....
I suppose this has happened to many, many others as well right? Anyone else?
Assumption Alert #1: Atheists were never religion.
As a former christian who grew up in an extremely religious home and went to a christian school for 13 years, I can assure you that I tried all of the tricks and really wanted to believe. In the end, no answer came to me that was outside of my own mind.
So now, I make a challenge to you. If you are not a mathematician or a chemist, ask god to give you the answer to a formula or a chemical bonding problem. Basically, you can ask for anything that is outside of your field of expertise. Christians go too easy on god. They ask for a bill to be paid, or that they will get better from their illness. Why not just pose a math problem to god and wait for him to reveal the answer to you?
Surely, the god responsible for the entire universe and all of the maths that govern it can provide a solution a simple formula. After all, he promised that if anything is asked in his name, he will provide it.
god please show me the truth. ..... what's that, what did you say, oh you don't exist. Thank for clearing that up. Some of these humans are confused.
doihave2
To honestly ask God anything means having to believe in him first, and if people ready believed in him why on earth would they ask for help from him to believe in him?
Many, if not most of us, once believed in God, but then we realized that the basis for believing in him was just smoke and mirrors. A lot of us prayed for the strength to keep on believing even though we now knew better, but when you realize that God probably isn't really there, and your prayers go unanswered as usual, you kinda take the hint.
You have to be a fool to look around at all the perfection before you and call it an accident. Why is it stupid to believe in God yet okay to believe that the universe that moves like clockwork around you is some happy accident. God didn't put that gunman in that theater the same way he didn't prevent it. That higher power is there, we just need to stop believing he's some comic book character that is going to fly in and save the day. How can you want free will yet always want someone to be watching your back? He leaves it to us to do the right thing and we fail miserably. That's not his fault, that's ours.
"...anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Mt 5:22)
Joe: " we just need to stop believing he's some comic book character that is going to fly in and save the day."
Then you won't be crediting him with "saving" folks from tornadoes and plane crashes and stuff either, ok?
Good point Joe, but if what you say is true then what is the point of prayer? As far as I'm concerned it has to be one of the most asinine ideas ever conceived.
I believe he is a comic book character who came from heaven to earth through a virgin birth, walked on water, cast out demons, etc., died then rose from the dead then appeared to his fans, has an evil partner (Satan), and created hell to torture people who don't worship him.
@Joe, Only religious people simplify the concept of existence as either "accidental" or "intentional." Life is neither. It just is. Intention is not something that can exist before something exists. Without intention, you cannot have accidents. At that level of occurrences things happen, or they do not happen. While that isn't very satisfying on an emotional level (nor should we cease looking for deeper answers), until we have evidence to the contrary, this is what is. Accept it or reject it... that's your choice. Just don't pretend like you have a real grounding or foundation for your belief. It's merely a faith claim., and faith is just pretending to know things you don't know.
Joe
Where do you see "perfection" in the universe? Our sun will die some day. Almost all of the universe is hostile to life. There are black holes that swallow stars. Astroids hit the earth and wipe out most of the life on it pretty regularly. There are ice ages that cover much of the land that happen pretty often, relatively speaking. Tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and other disasters kill thousands every year. Diseases kill millions. The human eye is built upside down and with a huge blind spot. We have back problems and trouble birthing due to our evolving an upright posture. If this is what God sees as "perfection", then he sure wasn't much of a designer.
I get such a kick out of religious quacks saying things like, "read the bible for proof of god"...."the bible tells us blahblah" etc.
I suppose If should read Homer, then I will find proof of Cyclops?
I also find it hilarious that NONE of the 'christians' believe in Thor, Zues, Jupiter, Kali, Mithra, Ra or any of the hundreds of 'gods' that have been worshiped over the times of human existence...
...yet they cannot comprehend why atheists discount their 'god' just as easily as they themselves dismiss those mentioned above as 'fairy tales' or 'mythology'.
The irony of it all is simply delicious...keep it coming!!!
I don't mined religion but its when they cram it down your throat its annoying just keep your make belive god to youself and thats also why I hate republicans.
Or when the parents brain wash there children into beliving what they belive, they should what until the child is old enough and decide for themself what to belive in.
justin,
If you are going to represent non-believers, please learn how to spell and to construct proper sentences with correct grammar. Thanks.
p.s. It's informal here and without an "Edit" function, lots of flubs and typos happen - no problem - but your post is over-the- top, atrocious English.
@pssst,
You come across as a teacher of English, the kind who teaches students to hate reading and writing. It' the idea that counts, not the grammar.
I agree that it's the thought that counts, but it never hurts to improve oneself. Why should we hold atheists to a different standard than we hold christians. For my part, I expect more from atheists than I ever do christians.
If I find accepting god as the answer to everything is intellectually lazy, then by all means, not right clicking one red-underlined words certainly qualifies as well.
Ever notice how atheist always want to appear intelligent? LOL
Well, us ordinary folks don't mind little misspelling, whether it be from our friends, or from our oponenets. We look at the heart of the message someone its trying to convey. And notice also that us ordinary, God -honoring folks don't boast ourselves of our intelligence... remember in grammar school when the bully always showed off and pushed the little guy around, making fun of him?... By the way the little guy had all A's on his report card!
But there is much more to our lives what makes them worth- while and what makes our message of faith and hope in God of great importance... To get bogged down with trivial things like misspelled words is nothing but foolishness!
So, if you're smart, you'll learn something out of this message!
BTW – "atheist" (first line) was meant to be "atheists".....just to ease your mind and prevent you from having adrenaline rush....
@Nope!, I guess you have to be a pretty shallow and empty person to believe that the only point of striving for excellence and perfection is appearance. Some of us, don't need to worry about how we appear. We are confident in who we are. This is the confidence that comes from hard work and dedication to something that is bigger than our egos. If we were only concerned about appearance, we'd just follow the easy flow of religion and accept mediocrity. Take that how you will, but for people like this, it isn't about bullying or bragging about our report card, it's about self-improvement.
If you're content without feeling a need to improve yourself, that's entirely your right. I hope you will see one day that self-improvement is its own reward, and the only competi.tion is oneself.
Nope, you didn't guess.....All you can do is dabble in the dark, friend, ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of Truth! And you can't improve even one little iota of your own fallen nature.... you can dress it up with good works, but when you stand before your Maker, then you will see how much you've "improved"! You will stand on your own before holy God without an Advocate! Do you think you can ?
@Nope!,
"You will stand on your own before holy God without an Advocate!"
You (nor anyone else) has ever provided evidence that this actually occurs. Repeating it over and over, louder and louder, and with exclamation points, does not prove that it's true.
We know something you don't...... and just because YOU don't, it doesn't make US wrong!
Proof is given to everyone who SEEKS – at the Source!
No one else can give it to ya!
@Nope!, so you DO have proof, but you're just not going to share it huh? Convenient.
There's no god, but I wish there was, so that way I won't be afraid of dieing.
Justin, there is God, and you don't have to be afraid of dying. Whether you said this with touch of sarcasm or you meant it, the truth is, we all fear dying.....because we fear things we haven't experienced.
I for example, fear that dying is painful.
But if you know Lord Jesus Christ and put your faith in Him, you do not need to fear death, because those who die in Him, will pass from death into Life.
The only reason to fear dying is the fear of the unknown. Once you're dead, you won't care one way or the other, because you won't exist to care. Love your life, and hold on to it as long as you can, but there is no reason to fear the inevitable. Knowing that existence is finite makes life that much sweeter.
"Once you're dead, you won't care one way or the other, because you won't exist to care.'
Often on these blogs we, believers are told we are 'delusional" .
But reading comments like yours makes us realize how much you, people delude yourself into believing that you'll just die and that's the end.
But keep on believing what YOU want, .....when your time comes, you too will become a "believer".
Nope!
Why would you even suspect that you'll actually get to live on after you die? Do you see ghosts?