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'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheists
Some atheists may ask questions on the Internet that they wouldn't have asked in church.
August 1st, 2012
12:03 PM ET

'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheists

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - The Internet has become the de facto global church for atheists, agnostics and other doubters of God, who of course don’t have bricks-and-mortar churches in which to congregate.

We see this phenomenon in motion every day on the CNN Belief Blog, where atheists/agnostics/humanists are among the most zealous commenters.

Recent string of posts around the question of “Where was God in Aurora?” (such as this and this) drew especially large waves of comments that show atheists are using the Internet to commune with one another and to confront religious believers in ways that they don’t usually do in church.

Atheists and other secularists have offline organizations that stage in-person meetings - the Secular Student Alliance has seen its number of campus chapters quadruple in the last five years, to 368 - but the Internet has probably played a bigger role in the rise of the so-called New Atheism. The movement’s adherents evangelize their godlessness, just as many religious folks evangelize their God, often taking to the Belief Blog to do so.

“A lot of millennials who are coming of age have found that the Internet is a fantastic place to talk about their doubt,” says Jesse Galef, communications director for the Secular Student Alliance. “Before the Internet, there was no place for young people to do that. The only place to go was really church, and that wasn’t always a welcoming place.

“But they can go online and discuss these ideas without being judged by friends and families,” Galef says.

For closeted atheists, the Internet’s anonymity is a big draw. A coalition of national atheist groups recently launched a program to transition doubting clergy to lives of open atheism by first having ministers come out anonymously in a closed online community.

Plenty of other atheists, though, are using the Internet to connect with real, named people through Facebook and other online social networks.

“It’s the ability to access a larger community, particularly for people growing up in religiously conservative areas,” Galef says. “There is nobody they can point to to discuss their atheism or their doubts about the Bible or their morality, and the Internet provides that.”

On Sunday, a guest piece from a Colorado pastor argued that it’s possible to reconcile the idea of a sovereign God with the existence of evil and tragedy. The post has drawn 4,239 comments as of Wednesday morning, largely from atheists.

One of those comments - a letter from God penned by an atheist commenter named Colin - caught fire online. Here’s how his letter opens:

"Dear Christians:

"God here. I thought I would take the time to personally explain my absence in the Aurora shootings. While I was at it, I thought I would also explain my absence during every murder, massacre and crime that has ever taken place in world history, and in every war, in every famine, drought and flood.

"You see, I do not exist. I never have. Did it really make sense to you that I would create an entire universe with billions of billions of planets and wait about 13,700,000,000 years just so I could focus on a few Jews from Palestine about 2,000 years ago while ignoring the rest of the 200,000,000 people on the planet at the time? Did I make those few Jews or did those few Jews make me?"

The letter has been posted on reddit, where it attracted another 1,000-plus comments. (Warning: The reddit comments includes foul language.)

The vast majority of comments come from sympathetic atheists and other secularists (the discussion is reddit's atheism thread), a striking example of such folks doing church without God online. Many of those comments are deeply personal, confessional and poignant.

Here are five of the best ones. Some respond to Colin’s letter from God, others to the Colorado pastor who wrote for the Belief Blog last weekend.

1. CarbonEmitter

"I grew up religious and decided to be agnostic (as an) undergraduate. Even though I am now in my late 20s, I still feel slightly guilty because my parents try to ram religion down my throat. My mom converted to my dad's religion (from Christianity to Islam) right before having a double lung transplant in 1995. They are now super-religious and attribute her miraculous recovery to her conversion.

"Reading posts like these remind me of how ridiculous religion is and help relieve my guilt. Thank you /r/athiesm."

2. tazadar

"I like what Carl Sagan said about reassuring fables.

" 'The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life's meaning. We long for a parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable.' "

3. RyGuy2012

"You know, it really irks me to no end to read the article from the pastor, as he claims to not have an answer for why God didn't prevent the Aurora shooting, but then claims to know for sure that God is there when people come to lend their support and sympathies for the shooting victims.

"I just can't wrap my mind around this logic. Like, the pastor must find some other explanation why people are good and do good things. It can't be that people can just be good on their own. Because, apparently (our) natural normal state is to be completely uncaring and disregarding? It's just such a very sad and low opinion to have of your fellow man.

4. funfetti_cookies

"Of course, he says that. You have to scare the people before giving them a reason to listen - "I held her hand as she died." What a great way to start your article. Also don't forget to mention Columbine so people remember that tragedy as well, but then go on to explain why God still exists and this is all part of his plan. Religion is nothing more but a scare tactic to control the masses.

5. ConstipatedNinja

"I don't share this much, but I was raped twice by my pastor when I was 6. And by I don't share this much, I mean that even my own parents don't know (as a side note, he's long since dead, so there's no sense in bringing it up). I had to sit in the same room (with) him for three hours every Sunday while he told everyone - including me - how a decent human being should act. I had to for four entire years before my family moved to a different state.

"When it first happened, I had no idea what was done. I was too young to understand. ... It's indescribable. You're told all this time about this ever-loving being that made you and has planned out your entire life. You're told that he'll protect you when you need it. You're told that if you're good, then he'll be good to you. So obviously, I wasn't good. I wasn't good enough. I was created and the creator of all things looked down upon me and decided that I was a bad egg. Do you know how rough that is for a 7-year-old? I still have problems with self-esteem. …"

That comment, which has been truncated above, provoked an outpouring of sympathy and support on reddit, including this comment:

rumpelstiltskin1

"This stuff is why I love Reddit. Yeah we are a room full of strangers but when it comes down to it we're a community. I love reading the stories of others and reading the heartfelt replies. I love that anyone can express themselves honestly and it will be well-received here (usually). And although this one is a little cheeky, I love that I can learn valuable life lessons of self-acceptance and being able to move on from a guy named ConstipatedNinja. Thank you for sharing your story, and I admire the willingness to share such a personal story; it's truly inspirational."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Atheism • Colorado • Violence

soundoff (4,699 Responses)
  1. Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer

    When you encounter someone who professes to be an Atheist, take the most personally advantageous action: eat him. Atheists are high in protein and a good source of B vitamins and amino acids. Do not allow yourself to be apprehended by the authorities until Atheists have been recgonized as game animals by the state. Remember, you have nothing to fear except law enforcement as long as you have braised, roasted or broiled the Atheist to an internal temperature of at least 180 degrees. They are also good in casseroles and fricassees.
    Atheists are a small and weak minority who should be exploited.
    Make no mistake...I am an Atheist myself...but I will never reveal that to the world. It serves my interests to call myself a Christian.
    Do not bore me with notions of how I should obey my "inner moral sense". My moral sense is nothing but a genetic construct, a primitive survival advantage I have outgrown...much like I have outgrown the need for God. I can discard them both easily...they are worthless to me...After all, God Is Dead and the only good is what is good for ME. I am the Superman. I am Beyond Good and Evil.

    August 7, 2012 at 1:30 am |
    • Pagan72

      "Oh! It's you!" Finally.. thought I'd die before you arrived.. in all seriousness? I think you're Taliban and need to be shot in the head. Then again, maybe you're just American and crying on the inside.

      August 7, 2012 at 1:53 am |
    • Thus Spoke a Modest Proposer

      Oh, well, actually there would be nothing morally "wrong" about shooting me in the head, obviously. As there would be nothing "wrong" about me eating you. You seem disturbed somehow. Why?

      August 7, 2012 at 2:01 am |
  2. Erik B

    'Church' is a meaningless exercise from the view of an atheist. Its a non issue because atheism is not a 'belief'. It simply means the lack of belief in god. You dont need a church of any kind to not have a belief. I guess believers feel that you HAVE to 'believe' in something, so its the internet, or something else. Thats ridiculous. Contrary to believers illusory conceptions, humans dont have a NEED to believe. Its a childhood evolutionary tick that we discard when we grow up and advance beyond our childhood ways of thinking.

    August 6, 2012 at 10:55 pm |
    • samstubbs

      I think actually the article is trying to point out the irony of the situation... You should be right: Atheists by definition do not adhere to any religious organization... and yet, I find many of these "New Atheists" behaving very much like a religion here on the internet:

      —They have a creed.

      —They proselytize their position.

      —Many have claimed to have an "awakening" experience.

      —They gather together (electronically in this case) to express their feelings, support each other, and proselytize to the "uninitiated."

      —They belief they have the "true path," and seek earnestly to prove they do.

      THAT's the point of the article: Their anti-religiousness seems ironically very "religious."

      August 7, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • Phil

      Well put !!!

      August 7, 2012 at 12:03 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What "creed"?

      August 7, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well? Still waiting to hear about that "creed" atheists have.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Tom
      The only "creed" I have is the band, and I will guiltily say I play one of their songs. Not a big fan, but the crowd asks for it, so I play it.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:17 am |
    • tallulah13

      It's amazing how christians love to make up "facts" about things they no nothing about. Where I come from, we call that lying.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:18 am |
    • Phil

      I was waiting for the OP to answer, but since he is not, I will just give one definition of creed from websters:

      any system or codification of belief or of opinion

      Need anything more be said?

      August 7, 2012 at 12:18 am |
    • tallulah13

      @Who:

      Sounds painful. An artist's life is not an easy one.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:19 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yes, Phil. Please elaborate. I am not aware of any 'creed' that atheists follow. If you are, then you should be able to quote it.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:20 am |
    • tallulah13

      But Phil, the single thing that unifies atheists is that they don't believe in any god. By your standards, people who don't believe in unicorns have a creed. Is is possible that you are reading too much into atheism?

      August 7, 2012 at 12:22 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Tally and Who, thanks for making me laugh.

      Although I must admit I'm laughing at Phil and his pal, too.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:22 am |
    • tallulah13

      It's cool, Tom. They are pretty funny.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:27 am |
    • Who invited me?

      doesn't every horrible speech start with a definition from websters?

      As far as my "creed"...one does what one must to please the crowd

      look that up in your Funk & Wagnels

      August 7, 2012 at 12:27 am |
    • Phil

      Is it really that difficult? : a creed is any system of opinion or belief

      Atheists lack an opinion? They have no system from which they derive at that opinion?

      Fake laughter does not make you right...now start raving about unicorns and tooth fairies....

      August 7, 2012 at 12:27 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, it's not fake.

      I think it's hilarious that you have a need to put everything and everyone into some neat little box.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:30 am |
    • Who invited me?

      The laughter is real Phil

      And we are not laughing WITH you

      August 7, 2012 at 12:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you think all atheists have a 'system of opinion or belief', Phil, then you ought to be able to describe exactly what it is. I notice you haven't done that. What would be the atheists "system" of opinion?

      August 7, 2012 at 12:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And what about sam's assertion that: "They belief they have the "true path," and seek earnestly to prove they do."

      That would be quite a generalization. What would be that "true path"? Do all atheists agree on it?

      August 7, 2012 at 12:36 am |
    • tallulah13

      Phil, the operative word here is "system". Atheism has no system. Atheists can be liberal, conservative, football fans, opera fans, drag queens, soldiers, blue collar, white collar, rich, poor, punk rockers, sh!t kickers.. We don't even have to like each other. The SINGLE unifying thread is that we don't believe in any god. That's it.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:37 am |
    • Phil

      I am simply getting too tired to respond. It is not necessary, either, as you already know the answers to the questions. I am not coping out really, I just have to go to work tomorrow and it is getting late. You are asking me to explain a lot that is obvious-but which you do not want to admit. Keeping laughing, it is good to be young and mirthful. You can laugh at me all you wish.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:47 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You can run off, Phil, but when you make a statement, you should be prepared to back it up. You can't. Or won't.

      There's no "creed". There's no "system".

      You are projecting your own need for belief onto others.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:52 am |
    • tallulah13

      Phil, we do indeed know who we are. You are the one who is making up answers to please yourself.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:58 am |
    • samstubbs

      Well I was going to answer your questions, but for some reason it's not letting me post. Sorry...

      August 7, 2012 at 1:14 am |
    • LinCA

      @samstubbs

      You said, "Well I was going to answer your questions, but for some reason it's not letting me post. Sorry..."

      CNN uses WordPress blogs for their opinion pieces, and they use automated censoring that looks for words, or fragments of words, that are considered offensive. If your post doesn't show up, it most likely had a forbidden word in it.

      On the Belief Blog, repeat posts, even those that were previously censored and not displayed, will show a message stating that you posted it before.

      The following words or word fragments will get your post censored (list is incomplete):
            arse             as in Arsenal
            bastard
            bitch
            cock           as in cockatiel
            coon           as in cocoon
            cum             as in circumstance
            cunt
            douche
            effing
            fag
            ftw
            fuck
            homo         as in homosexual
            hooters
            horny
            hump
            jackass
            jap
            jism
            kinky
            kooch
            nipple
            orgy
            pis
            porn
            poo           as in spooked
            prick
            queer
            rape         as in grape
            sex           as in homosexual
            shit
            slut
            smut
            snatch
            spic         as in despicable
            tit               as in constitution or title
            twat
            vag           as in vague
            whore
            wonderful us
            wtf

      To circumvent the filters you can break up the words by putting an extra character in, like: consti.tution (breaking the oh so naughty "tit").

      August 7, 2012 at 1:17 am |
    • samstubbs

      Wow, sorry to keep you guys waiting. A creed huh?:

      How about these: "There is no God, deal with it."
      "Religions are evil."
      "The Bible is a myth"
      "Prayer is a waste of time."

      These are the statements I keep hearing... I could swear they're all quoting from the same docu-ment somewhere... 😉

      August 7, 2012 at 1:19 am |
    • samstubbs

      @LinCA Thanks! That did the trick.

      August 7, 2012 at 1:21 am |
    • LinCA

      @samstubbs

      You said, "Thanks! That did the trick."
      You're welcome. Anything to keep the discussion going. 😉

      August 7, 2012 at 1:25 am |
    • Cq

      samstubbs
      We don't proselytize as much as clarify our beliefs for believers. For example, many Christians actually argue that we atheists are just rejecting God, as though we really do believe that he exists, but are just choosing not to worship him. Usually, it is more than just implied that we are doing this out of some hedonistic impulse to be completely selfish and immoral. Surely you can understand the need to counter such ridiculous notions?

      The rest of what we do here is discuss religion, a subject that many of us find highly interesting. Unfortunately, many believers do not appreciate an honest discussion about topics and figures they consider sacrosanct, which adds to their reasoning that we're "bad" people for identifying the problems associated with their faiths. Many see what we do as being mean, like telling a little kid that Santa isn't real. We, however, do not view you as children innocent to the fact that not everyone believes as you do.

      August 8, 2012 at 12:32 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You could "swear" it, stubby? Sorry, but I don't recall saying those things at all.

      So much for your "creed". It doesn't exist.

      August 8, 2012 at 10:59 am |
  3. Arvoasitis

    I recently read a book, "The Christian Atheist: Believing in God But Living as If He Doesn't Exist," by Craig Groeschel. Its argument seemed plausible. Perhaps the difference between typical Christians and atheists is a lot smaller than many people assume.

    August 6, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
    • Phil

      I think you are very right. The liberal and moderate believers and the liberal and moderate "folks who do not have belief" are fine with each other. It is the conservative fundamentalists on both sides who create all the confusion. I will have to check out that book...sounds interesting.

      August 6, 2012 at 10:52 pm |
    • Reason122

      @Arvoasitis

      I suspect there are also a lot of Atheist Christians. These people do not believe in God but say they do because of cultural or family pressures or because they what the social benefits of belonging to a church.

      August 7, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
  4. samstubbs

    Ironically, no matter your position, either argument seems circular. If you are a theist, any "evidence," so-to-speak, of Deity requires the presupposition that their is a God. Likewise, when you really examine Atheistic argument, any LACK of evidence, so-to-speak, of a Deity existing, also requires the presupposition that their is NO Deity.

    August 6, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • Phil

      Get ready to be abused by a lot of folks who have much more than just "absence of belief".

      August 6, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
    • Adam C

      @samstubbs

      Sam, if someone believes that god will heal their sick child, and you apply the same standard that you're applying, then there is no way to prove that they are wrong. Doctors suggest medicine or surgery, the parent suggests prayer. Child gets no medicine or surgery, only prayer, and dies.

      Do we know for sure that the prayer didn't work? Maybe it was just the child's time to die and no medicine or surgery would have helped either.

      So, while non-believers cannot KNOW that medicine or surgery would have been the better way, we feel comfortable resting on the mountains of evidences and peer research that shows that medicine or surgery are better than prayer. I.E., both choices are not equally likely to be correct choices. Just because we cannot get prayer to a 0% chance of helping (its probably 0.00000000001% or so), doesn't mean we have to pretend it is a good choice.

      August 7, 2012 at 11:38 am |
  5. tony

    A meeting place, maybe. A church is not the right term for any discussion between two or more who have no religious beliefs.

    August 6, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • Phil

      That is the whole point: many Atheists do not just have an absence of belief. They have a need to inflict that belief upon others. They become preachers themselves. Please don't tell me I am a fool because I choose to believe in a divinity like that of Thoreau or Voltaire or Einstein. And don't try to convert me to the absence of belief, either. in return for that, you can disbelieve whatever you want. Deal?

      August 6, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • zometimer

      Phil, your missing the point. Dont impose your religious beliefs on anyone. That is religious freedom. Against abortion-dont have one and dont forget if you are pro life no killing in self defense, no war and no death penalty. While we are at it no prison, just turn the other cheek like your imaginary jesus. Grow up.

      August 6, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Phil

      Someone's positions on political questions is not necessarily related to their religious beliefs. There are plenty of believers, Christians even, that are against the death penality and pro choice. You are simply showing your closed mindedness and intolerance...and reveling in your imaginary intellectual and moral superiority.

      August 6, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • TurtleChurch

      By referencing Thoreau, Einstein and Voltaire as your spiritual models you seem to be espousing a deistic or pantheistic belief that has far more in common with the naturalism that is frequently seen as a foundation of modern atheism than anything found in the "personal relationship with god' that is central to most mainstream religions of today.

      August 6, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • Phil

      Yup. Very well said, I might add.

      August 6, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
  6. Phil

    Anyone who would deny out of hand that any sort of Divinity could possibly exist is either closed minded or immature or both. As famous a skeptic as Bertrand Russell would not do this.

    It is OK to have absence of belief. When you start to call all believers fools, you have become a preacher yourself. Every open minded person already realizes that god cannot be logically proven to exist, but that does not mean that divinity of any sort is impossible.

    August 6, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • zometimer

      Its OK for you to believe in santa as well just keep your silly fairy tales away from my kids and family.

      August 6, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • Phil

      You self important windbags can't drop using pejoratives and wearing the mantle of superiority for an instant, can you.

      August 6, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Phil

      You said, "Anyone who would deny out of hand that any sort of Divinity could possibly exist is either closed minded or immature or both. As famous a skeptic as Bertrand Russell would not do this."
      Most atheists on this comment board, and all that I know, will readily admit that there is a possibility, however remote, that there are gods.

      You said, "It is OK to have absence of belief."
      Of course it is. It's the default position in absence of evidence, or even a rational narrative in support of a belief.

      You said, "When you start to call all believers fools, you have become a preacher yourself."
      How would you call adults that in all seriousness claim an unwavering belief in the Tooth Fairy? Leprechauns? Santa Claus? The only way that beliefs in those creatures differ from beliefs in gods, is that they are not reinforced after children start to doubt them.

      August 6, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • Phil

      So you are saying believing in the god of Spinoza or Kant or Newton or Planck is the same as believing in the tooth fairy? That is so incredibly ignorant it defies belief.

      August 6, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Phil

      You said, "So you are saying believing in the god of Spinoza or Kant or Newton or Planck is the same as believing in the tooth fairy?"
      They, just like billions of others, believed in fairy tales. If you wish to elevate these gods above the other mythical creatures you will have to provide evidence for the existence of them. Until you do, they will firmly remain in the realm of fantasy.

      You said, "That is so incredibly ignorant it defies belief."
      I don't expect you to accept it as you've clearly swallowed the bullshit, hook, line and sinker, but your imaginary friend is very likely just that, imaginary.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You are free to remain blissfully ignorant. You have that right. Just don't expect anyone who has the ability and willingness to apply rational thought to the matter, to be equally gullible.

      August 6, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • Phil

      @lin:
      you said: "Just don't expect anyone who has the ability and willingness to apply rational thought to the matter, to be equally gullible."

      Have you every read or even heard of Kant's Critique of Pure Reason? Your statement means that you believe Kant did not have the ability or willingness to apply rational tought to the matter. Your post proves beyound the shadow of a doubt that fools can be Atheists, too.

      August 6, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Phil

      You said, "Have you every read or even heard of Kant's Critique of Pure Reason? Your statement means that you believe Kant did not have the ability or willingness to apply rational tought to the matter."
      I think you misunderstand what Kant was saying.

      From: John Watson. The philosophy of Kant explained – 1908:
      "[Kant] demonstrated this with a thought experiment, showing that it is not possible to meaningfully conceive of an object that exists outside of time and has no spatial components and is not structured in accordance with the categories of the understanding, such as substance and causality. Although such an object cannot be conceived, Kant argues, there is no way of showing that such an object does not exist. Therefore, Kant says, the science of metaphysics must not attempt to reach beyond the limits of possible experience but must discuss only those limits, thus furthering the understanding of ourselves as thinking beings. The human mind is incapable of going beyond experience so as to obtain a knowledge of ultimate reality, because no direct advance can be made from pure ideas to objective existence."
      In other words, and applied to gods, while we can't exclude the possibility that they exist (as they are said to "exists outside of time and have no spatial components..."), it is meaningless to assert they exist ("must not attempt to reach beyond the limits of possible experience"). We must limit ourselves to the possible experience.

      The exact same applies to the Tooth Fairy. You can assert all you want, but to convince, you'll need evidence.

      You said, "Your post proves beyound the shadow of a doubt that fools can be Atheists, too."
      You seem to be asserting a lot of unsubstantiated bullshit. Are you a believer?

      August 6, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
    • tallulah13

      It is not impossible, but considering the utter lack of proof, it is improbable.

      August 6, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
    • Phil

      @lin:
      Continuing to compare any possible form of divinty to the tooth fairy just shows serious intellectual shallowness. Copying and pasting a synopsis of Kant is proof positive that you really are not as well read as you might be. Of course there is no logical proof for the existence of god. I have already stated that. It does not mean that no form of "god" can possibly exist. God might be something very strange and unexpected. By the way, until science proves conclusively the universe to have been created ex nihilo, the possibility is alive and well...get ready for a long wait, because right now, science is really just stacking up turtles- much like the Hindus.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
    • Phil

      @Lin:

      Sorry, I forgot to add in response to your question: Am I a believer? I believe something very strange is going on in the Cosmos...something timeless...I believe there is a creative force present...the one thing I have complete faith in is that the cosmos did not just spring into existence EX NIHILO. And nor did god.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Phil

      You said, "Continuing to compare any possible form of divinty to the tooth fairy just shows serious intellectual shallowness."
      Not accepting that there is no difference shows lack of critical thought.

      You said, "Copying and pasting a synopsis of Kant is proof positive that you really are not as well read as you might be."
      If it succinctly addresses the issue at hand, why would I not quote it? It shows you were trying to bullshit your way through the argument. Probably in the hope that I would give up.

      You said, "Of course there is no logical proof for the existence of god."
      And therefor absolutely no reason to believe there are any.

      You said, "I have already stated that."
      Yet you keep insisting, or at the very least insinuating, that a belief in them is somehow rational. Why the cognitive dissonance?

      You said, "It does not mean that no form of "god" can possibly exist."
      I never said gods were impossible. There just isn't any more evidence for them than for the Tooth Fairy. Even Santa Claus and Loch Ness Monster are for more likely to exist as there is a lot more evidence for them.

      You said, "God might be something very strange and unexpected."
      Agreed. But why keep believers insisting their version is the one and only? They have nothing to back it up.

      You said, "By the way, until science proves conclusively the universe to have been created ex nihilo, the possibility is alive and well."
      While science may not have conclusively answered that question, having some creature poof the universe in existence doesn't in any way answer any questions. It merely shifts it to where this creature came from.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • Phil

      The concept of god is a response to the mystery of universal causation. Do you deny there is a mystery? I never said belief was rational...because as currently understood the universe is irrational-a universe that lacks a cause and effect origin is irrational. I never said you had to believe in anything and I don't insist "my god" is the right one or the only one. When an egg 100 billion light years across falls into your lap...you can start comparing the concept of "god" to that of the Easter Bunny...until then it is just a silly, immature and totally invalid comparison.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • tallulah13

      Not knowing the cause of certain things is no reason to believe in an unsubstantiated supernatural being. It is, however, a reason to start looking for real answers.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:25 am |
    • LinCA

      @Phil

      You said, "The concept of god is a response to the mystery of universal causation. Do you deny there is a mystery?"
      No, but "answering" the mystery by claiming "goddidit!" is just plain silly.

      You said, "I never said you had to believe in anything and I don't insist "my god" is the right one or the only one."
      All I said was that if you want to convince anyone..... (please take care to note the use of "if")

      You said, "When an egg 100 billion light years across falls into your lap. you can start comparing the concept of "god" to that of the Easter Bunny...until then it is just a silly, immature and totally invalid comparison."
      Until there is any reason to expect they are different, it is silly to believe they aren't. Until there is any evidence for either, and I'm not prejudiced to either one, beliefs in either of them are rather infantile.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Phil, I have no problem with the exact cause of the origin of the universe being a mystery. I simply don't feel that mystery must be solved by inventing a god.

      I don't insist anyone else believe as I do, and I certainly don't have any sort of 'creed'. I just see no evidence for an invisible hand behind all that exists.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:29 am |
    • Phil

      I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I will stick with a rather impressive list of historical "believers" as proof positive that embracing the possiblity of divinty is not at all infantile. As to the problem of universal causation, I never said "he did it"...as if god was anthropomorpic or even manifest objectively in any sense commonly understood.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:36 am |
    • tallulah13

      You stick with your list, Phil. I'm not afraid to stand by myself.

      August 7, 2012 at 12:40 am |
    • LinCA

      @Phil

      You said, "I will stick with a rather impressive list of historical "believers" as proof positive that embracing the possiblity of divinty is not at all infantile."
      Argumentum ad populum fail.

      You said, "As to the problem of universal causation, I never said "he did it"...as if god was anthropomorpic or even manifest objectively in any sense commonly understood."
      You were the one that brought up the origin of the universe, and with it the implication of "goddidit", but whatever.

      August 7, 2012 at 1:00 am |
  7. johnmcpherson1

    God is Love.
    Without God, there is no Love.

    August 6, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Mister Jones

      Isn't that the same argument that Sandusky used?

      August 6, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      So basically you're saying atheists don't love their children or families? Genius.

      August 6, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Without proof, there is no god.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:00 pm |
    • redzoa

      ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS:
      (1) God is Love
      (2) Love is Blind
      (3) Stevie Wonder is Blind
      (4) Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God
      (5) Therefore, God exists.

      Simple logic people...

      August 6, 2012 at 11:05 pm |
    • derf

      Without proof there is no proof.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:07 pm |
    • Cq

      redzoa
      Love is blind.
      Believers love God.
      This is why they cannot see God's faults.

      August 8, 2012 at 12:35 am |
  8. Michael Sawyer

    Now this is not quite fair. Christians can be, and are, just as venomous and hateful on the internet as well.

    August 6, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • fsjunkie

      The Internet is church for athiests. That's not an unfair thing to say. It always struck me as odd that those who would claim to be so free from the shackles of religion were always to be found on articles talking incessantly about religion! Athiests fellowship with each other and spiritually lift each other up MORE than a lot of Christians. The Internet is their congregation...their therapy, where they recite their daily prayer. In most cases, nothing could be more obvious. Sorry you don't like the analogy.

      August 6, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • tallulah13

      For a long time, atheists feared to speak publicly about their lack of belief. We are a minority, and a hated minority at that. The internet provides us a save haven to be open about our thoughts. Ironically, this freedom has translated into my real life, and I find that when I speak out about being an atheist, others feel free to admit their own doubts, or lack of belief.

      As far as I'm concerned, the church comparison is wrong. It safety we find here. Safety, and a place to finally exercise our freedom of speech.

      August 7, 2012 at 1:23 am |
  9. Nietodarwin

    The crowd watching the NASA feed in Times Square cheered and began chanting, "Science! Science!" (When the Mars landing succeeded last night) THAT IS THE CHURCH OF ATHEISTS. It has been a good month for atheism.

    August 6, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • tallulah13

      Brilliant.

      August 6, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • Peter

      You act like the Catholic Church has been opposed to science it never has been. Nicolaus Copernicus, Gregor Mendel, Georges Lemaître, Albertus Magnus, Roger Bacon, Pierre Gassendi, Roger Joseph Boscovich, Marin Mersenne, Francesco Maria Grimaldi, Nicole Oresme, Jean Buridan, Robert Grosseteste, Christopher Clavius, Nicolas Steno, Athanasius Kircher, Giovanni Battista Riccioli, William of Ockham are just some of the more famous priests that were sciencetists this doesn't even include the Catholic laity this is only a super small list of Catholic priests that were scientists.

      August 6, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Nietodarwin

      Can't have a church without a religion.

      August 6, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • Bill

      Peter, you assume the scientists you name had a choice.

      August 6, 2012 at 3:09 pm |
    • fsjunkie

      As an athiest, you worship science; as a Christian, I study and embrace it to understand my world in physical terms, and to recognize the boundaries of my understanding. The more I study science, the more my faith in Christianity is strengthened. Big Bang, pool of slime...yeah, I'll play along just to communicate with mankind, but science says that it doesn't have to explain how it starts its book in the middle of the third chapter. Please define "nothing". You can't...so where did "something" originate? Science presumes that there never was "nothing".

      August 6, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • tallulah13

      fsjunkie:

      The problem with believing in god is that there isn't a single shred of evidence to support the existence of god. Any god.

      Before you brag about your superiority, perhaps you should address that fact.

      August 7, 2012 at 1:05 am |
  10. jim

    @tallulah13: "Jim, to believe, I require of god..." Sounds like a genie in a bottle you're requiring something of, not God. All I can say to that, tallulah13, is seek and ye shall find.

    August 6, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • tallulah13

      Jim, why shouldn't your god stand up to the same scrutiny as we give anything else we are supposed to believe? If someone accused you of murder, would you not expect them to produce evidence to support that claim? There is just as much evidence to support the existence of every other god ever worshiped as there is for your god: None.

      Did you know that the Hindu pantheon is older that the judeo-christian tradition? Perhaps you should worship them. Are you a Mormon? There is just as much evidence to show that Joseph Smith received divine revelation as there is that Saul of Tarsus' revelation - no evidence whatsoever.

      If what religious believers say is true, my very "soul" is at stake here. Why should I not demand evidence, when there are so many equal choices?

      August 6, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • jim

      tallulah13: There is evidence, but not in the form you are demanding; evidence provided is on God's terms, not yours. Jesus told those who inquired about proof that, to them, no proof would be given except for the sign of the prophet Jonah, who was in the belly of the whale for 3 days. Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days and rose from the dead and you can read the eye-witness accounts of that and the accounts of those who followed on into Christianity after Jesus' death. It is not an easy road and most don't go very far down it, but if you genuinely want to find God, as I said, seek and ye shall find. Thanks for the info about the Hindu pantheon, but no thanks. No, I'm not a Mormon.

      August 6, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @jim, Why do you continue to assume that atheists have not "sought" god. You say things like "seek and ye shall find." People have stated multiple times that most atheists come from christian/religious backgrounds. I came from a very devout christian home and grew up in that world. Of course I sought... of course I believed I found. I trusted my leaders that what they told me was the truth. I studied and prayed fervently.

      The "god" experience, is only one of the early steps in finding the truth of reality. Some form of this experience may be necessary for the mind to evolve beyond the child state of seeking parental guidance. You probably think atheists got mad at god, or religion and therefore they choose to deny his existence. Rather through reasoning we have come to understand the immaturity of our own minds in accepting something for which we have no real evidence for. It is no different to us than accepting that Santa Clause is real and then one day realizing or being told that he is not real.

      The frustration or even anger that you hear from people is often based in our daily having to deal with people who insist that Santa Clause is real.

      August 6, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • tallulah13

      jim, proof being on "god's terms" is nothing more than a scam. Only a fool or a child believes in something for which there is no evidence. Why do you fear subjecting your god to the same scrutiny that you would give, say, the purchase of a new appliance? Do you believe everything a salesman tells you?

      August 6, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
    • jim

      GodFreeNow:@jim, Why do you continue to assume that atheists have not "sought" god. – Certainly, I believe you have 'sought'; don't misunderstand me. But there is seeking, and then there is seeking until you find; not accepting that you won't find. "The frustration or even anger that you hear from people is often based in our daily having to deal with people who insist that Santa Clause is real." I can get nasty myself for the same reason, just mirrored from my worldview, so I empathize with you there. I hope I haven't come off that way. Please accept my apologies if I have.

      August 7, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • jim

      tallulah13: If you won't budge on your requirement for evidence of the shape and size that fits the space you've built for it, I can only say that is not how I went about it but I found God for certain. Interesting, your comment about fools and children; would you reduce yourself in stature and power to that of a little child or become a fool in your search? I did. Have you ever loved someone so much, you were a fool for them? That's the kind of fool I'm talking about. You get a glimpse in your imagination of the two of you together, and, it's all over for you. It's all about tenacity and determination, (importunity) but, is it worth it to you? Oh, and I subjected my God to intense scrutiny in the process, but the proof is not transferrable to you. You have to do the searching yourself, but God, I assure you, will join you in it at some point.

      August 7, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
  11. JJ

    I highly encourage anyone who is athiest, agnostic, or of any faith to visit a service at your local Unitarian Universalist church – uua.org. Finding or following a spiritual path can be lonely by yourself, why not join with others on similar journies?

    Our teenage Coming of Age class recently stood in front of the congregation to make their statements of faith, which they had worked on through the year. I don't think there was one teen that didn't identify as agnostic or athiest but they were warmly welcomed and applauded. How many other churches can you find that at?

    I was sold when I attended Easter service and the message discussed the good things that Jesus did and taught, instead of bashing us all over the head with a crucifix. Other services have invited Buddhists to speak, discussed physics, and I love the idea of being able to learn about and discuss Jesus without being forced to agree on his divinity.

    August 6, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • tallulah13

      No thank you. I'm following a rational path. However, it's nice that there are some churches who are about acceptance, not division.

      August 6, 2012 at 1:28 pm |
    • Mister Jones

      Sorry, I'm busy for the rest of my life doing anything BUT that ...

      August 6, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • greylocks

      Churches are not just about beliefs. They are also about fellowship and community and family and helping other people. These are things that the anonymous and impersonal Internet cannot easily provide, whereas brick and mortar churches do offer these things. If you are an atheist and there is a Humanist congregation in your neighborhood, then that’s great. Otherwise, if you are looking for other people with whom you can share your journey, then you may find a UU congregation to be just as suitable. I think that’s JJ’s point. You will probably meet some theists, some agnostics and some atheists. You will not be asked to abandon the "rational path". On the contrary, Unitarian Universalists are encouraged to "heed the guidance of reason and the results of science".

      August 6, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I have friends and family for community and fellowship.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
  12. Peter

    Religion offers the wrong incentives and sooner or later the Christian leaders along with their political counter parts will realize it. In Christianity you can be the most evil person on earth. You can murder and lie and steal your neighbor's wife and property for 79 years. When, in your 80th year, just before you die, you accept jesus as your savior, you will inherit eternal life.
    ---–
    Not all Christians believe this this is more of a protestant belief. Catholics for instance believe if you are murder and you ask God's forgiveness right before you die, you have to go through a cleansing period because God is just. He loves us but the Bible makes it pretty clear that no filth will enter the kingdom of God. An apology would save you from hell but it doesn't gurantee you eternal life in heaven.

    August 6, 2012 at 10:02 am |
    • Mohammed_Islam

      What if you do not get a chance for apology as we all are keeping ourselves bz with something that makes us feel good?

      Also I have been studying Bible with few of my Christian friends... the way i find it is... this entire faith is the faith of whoever wrote these gospels.... we have lots of contradictory information about the writer of these gospels... some Christian scholars found in their research that the name has been used but the actual writers were different... also the first book was written at least 60 years after Jesus (PBUH) left this earth... now some part the book says 'Pray to the Father I pray' and in the same gospel it says 'no one go to the Father without me' meaning making human to make Jesus as the media... in another place – Jesus is the Lord and so on.... the only begotten son… son of God… son of man… wasn’t it obvious that Jesus was the son of Marry? Then why is there so many confusion in the mankind about this prophet of The Almighty? Which also confirms too many times in Quran… actually his (Jesus) name has been mentioned 80+ times in the quran… why? And what is the difference between calling Jesus as Lord/God/Son of God and a guy in India claimed himself as God and Hindus worships him as God?

      I wish people will have this ability to understand the difference between The Creator and The Creatures… but most of us do not put a thought in this regards…. We just take it either from parents or by not using the intellectual that God blessed us all with…

      Peace!!!

      August 6, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
  13. farmerjeani

    Judging God by looking at 'Christians' is like judging a river by looking at a glass of water. Everyone of you knows there is a God. You may deny it, you may try to reason it away, but he dwells IN you and is always there. When you look around you and everything looks perfect and you are filled with an unreasonable sense of joy and happiness, that is God. God doesn't 'make' crippled children, he doesn't 'let' people do horrendous things, he gave us free will and that means free. He doesn't live in a book or a bible (or Quran, torah, or any other holy book) and he isn't waiting to burn you in Hell. He doesn't favor one group of God worshipers over another. In fact he doesn't favor any human over another He loves the homeless mentally ill street person as much as he loves mother Teresa. He loves Muslim as much as the Christian, the Sikh, the Jew, the Palestinian and the atheist. He loves everything he created and put on this earth. His word is found in the bible, but not all the words in the bible are his and all of his words are not in the bible (or Qoran, or torah etc). His word is where he put it, where Jesus told everyone to go and find it; in your own heart. Yes, I believe that we have life beyond this one and that ALL people will share in it. I think there will be great surprise when humans find out for far from the truth they all were! I believe that God answers prayers, but maybe not in the way you wished. I believe we create our own unhappiness by wanting and wishing for things that are not important to us and missing the things that truly are important that he has put in front of us. And then I think he sighs and then smiles, because he made us and put this stubborn questioning streak into all humans. He knows that each of us insists on learning the hard way. But if there isn't any life after this one, loving God has brought me so much genuine happiness, joy and peace that I would never want to have missed it.

    August 6, 2012 at 9:22 am |
    • Salero21's god

      what nonsense. How are crippled
      children or birth defects evidence of free will or a loving just god?

      They aren't. And god is a myth.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • MarkinFL

      OK

      August 6, 2012 at 11:53 am |
  14. kirska

    You can find freethinker organizations in many places. It offers the face to face community of the church without all the lies and fantasy. Last week I attended a womens dinner with our local freethought fellowship and it was a lot of fun. It's one of the few places you can really express yourself without fear of some religious nut throwing out the "I'm offended" card.

    August 6, 2012 at 8:45 am |
  15. dxg.trust

    I would rather live my life as if there is a God – and die to find out there isn't,
    then to live my life as if there is No God – and die to find out there IS.

    August 6, 2012 at 6:19 am |
    • AGuest9

      Taking Pascal up on his wager is a pathetic way to live.

      August 6, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • AGuest9

      This proves that your "faith" is fallacious..

      August 6, 2012 at 8:27 am |
    • sam stone

      which god?

      August 6, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Salero21's god

      The used-car salesman way to go.

      And that isn't belief. That is sucking up. Hedging your bets.

      Wouldn't the all-knowing god know your true feelings such that he knows your lie?

      Pathetic. There is no god. Deal with it.

      August 6, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • Illusive

      As AGuest said, that is called Pascal's Wager, what the wager does not take into account is different faiths/ practices, other gods. So by following your logic, I am more likely to go to a good place (Heaven, Paradise, Moksha, Elysian fields, Nirvana etc...) when I die if I live my life as a good, kind, agnostic, than to hedge my bets on one god/ faith and to find out that it is not only wrong, but deserving of the "Bad Place" (Hell, Irkalla, Helheim, Kasyrgan, Tartarus etc...). Better to follow none, and be good, than to follow one and be wrong.

      August 6, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Mister Jones

      I would rather know for a fact that there were no scary monsters under my bed than tell myself 2,000 year old ghost stories about snakes and apples.

      August 6, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
  16. GOD PARTICLE UK Dave

    VIDEO CAMERAS READY!

    IT'S THE LAST OF THE ARGUMENTS TODAY! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

    August 6, 2012 at 3:39 am |
    • Higgs-Boson Baby

      Only five smiley faces? Drum role next time, PLEASE!

      August 7, 2012 at 1:48 am |
  17. Higgs-Boson Baby

    Interesting battle between Chad and Colin. Hypotheses for the origin(s) of life on Earth are speculative and conjecture at best. My finely tuned guitar is just that, finely tuned. Your “finely tuned” universe explains nothing about the origin of life. Panspermia is an interesting idea, but it has its issues as well. Biologists, Chemists, and Physicists are generally clueless about the origins of life and the Universe. Darwin’s Origin of Species is interesting, but sheds no light on how life began.

    Even if random collisions between atoms/molecules could produce a double helix of nucleotides, the question would still remain – what or who produced the material/conditions necessary for this to occur in the first place? As artificial intelligence evolves and computers become more and more powerful, maybe some answers will be resolved on how life (coded, chemical information) came to be from the original Big Bang material (mostly hydrogen with some helium).

    The LHC (particle accelerator) is limited on how far it can resolve the conditions just after the Big Bang. The Higgs-Boson (carrier particle) may shed some light on how other particles achieve mass, but the very first particle(s) (if it even was a particle(s)) to come into existence could never be found (the energy requirements needed would be impossible to achieve).

    The Big Bang was not an explosion, but appears to have been a controlled, uniform release of energy, which begs the question, (What were the conditions prior to the Big Bang to produce this much energy)? The logical conclusion is that somewhere down the line there existed nothing (not vacuum space) from which something was produced. Perhaps it is in this nothingness that the Creator resides, the Alpha and Omega.

    August 6, 2012 at 2:55 am |
    • tallulah13

      Or perhaps you just made a bunch of stuff up to rationalize belief in god. "I don't know" does not indicate the existence of supernatural beings. It simply means that the facts are not yet known.

      August 6, 2012 at 3:02 am |
    • AGuest9

      "battle between Chad and Colin"? That's like a comparing a battle between Beetle Bailey and Patton.

      August 6, 2012 at 8:29 am |
  18. WachetAuf

    Religion offers the wrong incentives and sooner or later the Christian leaders along with their political counter parts will realize it. In Christianity you can be the most evil person on earth. You can murder and lie and steal your neighbor's wife and property for 79 years. When, in your 80th year, just before you die, you accept jesus as your savior, you will inherit eternal life. That is the theory about which Christians preach and take great pride. In reality, one interesting thing about practical Christian belief, if you beleive the polls, is that they hold to a belief which is borrowed from Hinduism. Polls show that "karma" drives their passions, not Jesus' message.of tolerance. So, here is what I see coming and what I propose they begin doing. Trash the tolerance crap in the New Testament and form a religion which truly reflects popular morality and ethics. The Old Testament might be a good start. The Taliban has some very interesting and effective approaches which are similar to Old Testament theology. They do not wait for "karma" to provide final justice. Theirs is much more immediate and direct. The Taliban may have borrowed their justice from the Crusades and the Inquisition. I actually expect a day in which Christians will finally realize the truth of their dilemma and commence a new Inquisition. It could begin as soon as that great Christian Mitt Romney himself is elected along with the Tea Party congressional and senate candidates, Surely it will be a sign from God.

    August 5, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
    • Cq

      Yes, Hitler himself could have accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior in the bunker, along with Eva Braun, and the two of them could be at this moment basking in God's glory with a clear view of Hitler's Jewish victims burning in hell according to Christian belief about redemption. No need to have made amends, or rest.itution to your victims before dying. Where is the justice in something like that?

      August 6, 2012 at 12:30 am |
    • jim

      Do you know for sure Mitt Romney converted from Mormonism, or is this post all about you blowing smoke?

      August 6, 2012 at 12:31 am |
    • Jon

      WatchetAuf is like many atheists, s/h/it has little idea what he is talking about. Such it is with "Jesus' message of tolerance". There is NO SUCH THING. Jesus' message was one of love, justice and obedience leading to division and demarcation. The light must be separated from the dark, belief from unbelief, good from evil, obedience from recalcitrance ... ALWAYS

      August 6, 2012 at 2:29 am |
    • tallulah13

      Gosh, if only there were proof that the christian god exists and that Jesus (if HE actually existed) was anything more than a radical rabbi. Then maybe christianity would have some authority other than the bully tactics of it's believers.

      August 6, 2012 at 3:04 am |
    • Higgs-Boson Baby

      Jesus wasn't about "popular" morality and ethics. Not sure about the Christians polls, but I agree most Christians are anything but Christian. If Romney is elected this will become more apparent then ever.

      August 6, 2012 at 3:21 am |
    • doG3

      um God dont like people You killed his son and bring false accusations.

      August 6, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • Higgs-Boson Baby

      The New (Christian) Inquisition already began in earnest with the military occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. Yes, soldiers are still dying there (26 year-old US soldier (his third deployment in Afghanistan) killed a few days ago from stepping on an IED). Never mind the poor, peasant farmers who had NOTHING to do with 911. Interesting how our military bases line up in a north/south direction in Afghanistan. The reason? T o build a pipeline to carry oil/natural gas from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea. This was supposed to begin in the 90’s, however, the Taliban would not cooperate with this plan as we originally thought they would. And the rest is history. Welcome to the New World Order, and the New Christian Inquisition.

      August 7, 2012 at 1:38 am |
    • Cq

      Jon
      "Obedience" and "Justice" do not always go together, especially when we are talking about undemocratic systems based upon absolute authority.

      August 8, 2012 at 12:38 am |
  19. WachetAuf

    So many assumptions, even presumptuous. Looks to me like Satan will get the Gold Medal in this Olympic event.

    August 5, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • Cq

      Assumptions, like God existing; and presumptions, like atheists being bad people?

      August 6, 2012 at 12:23 am |
    • AGuest9

      [Yawn] Two sides of the same coin. Your god/satan delusion is the replacement in Roman mythology for the god janus.

      August 6, 2012 at 8:32 am |
  20. crixus79

    God exists. He just chooses to stay out of our affairs and let us have free will. If he intervened at every twist and turn in life, we would have nothing to live and strive for and learn nothing, for living in a God dominated world would be a world complete perfection(which by the way is the dimension of the afterlife) and our souls would have no reason to incarnate into imperfect human bodies of existance.

    August 5, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Frank

      @crixus79
      "God exists", eh?

      Care to prove that claim, or do you admit that it's only an opinion?

      Also, you see a God-dominated world, where we would have nothing to live and strive for, as "perfection"? Meanwhile, critics of atheism accuse us of seeing no "meaning" in our lives. Are you arguing that our view of the world is also perfection?

      August 6, 2012 at 12:20 am |
    • GodFreeNow

      He sure is taking his sweet time to return... I personally can't wait for my magical unicorn...

      August 6, 2012 at 1:28 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.