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 Some atheists may ask questions on the Internet that they wouldn't have asked in church.
August 1st, 2012
12:03 PM ET
'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheistsBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - The Internet has become the de facto global church for atheists, agnostics and other doubters of God, who of course don’t have bricks-and-mortar churches in which to congregate. We see this phenomenon in motion every day on the CNN Belief Blog, where atheists/agnostics/humanists are among the most zealous commenters. Recent string of posts around the question of “Where was God in Aurora?” (such as this and this) drew especially large waves of comments that show atheists are using the Internet to commune with one another and to confront religious believers in ways that they don’t usually do in church. Atheists and other secularists have offline organizations that stage in-person meetings - the Secular Student Alliance has seen its number of campus chapters quadruple in the last five years, to 368 - but the Internet has probably played a bigger role in the rise of the so-called New Atheism. The movement’s adherents evangelize their godlessness, just as many religious folks evangelize their God, often taking to the Belief Blog to do so. “A lot of millennials who are coming of age have found that the Internet is a fantastic place to talk about their doubt,” says Jesse Galef, communications director for the Secular Student Alliance. “Before the Internet, there was no place for young people to do that. The only place to go was really church, and that wasn’t always a welcoming place. “But they can go online and discuss these ideas without being judged by friends and families,” Galef says. For closeted atheists, the Internet’s anonymity is a big draw. A coalition of national atheist groups recently launched a program to transition doubting clergy to lives of open atheism by first having ministers come out anonymously in a closed online community. Plenty of other atheists, though, are using the Internet to connect with real, named people through Facebook and other online social networks. “It’s the ability to access a larger community, particularly for people growing up in religiously conservative areas,” Galef says. “There is nobody they can point to to discuss their atheism or their doubts about the Bible or their morality, and the Internet provides that.” On Sunday, a guest piece from a Colorado pastor argued that it’s possible to reconcile the idea of a sovereign God with the existence of evil and tragedy. The post has drawn 4,239 comments as of Wednesday morning, largely from atheists. One of those comments - a letter from God penned by an atheist commenter named Colin - caught fire online. Here’s how his letter opens:
The letter has been posted on reddit, where it attracted another 1,000-plus comments. (Warning: The reddit comments includes foul language.) The vast majority of comments come from sympathetic atheists and other secularists (the discussion is reddit's atheism thread), a striking example of such folks doing church without God online. Many of those comments are deeply personal, confessional and poignant. Here are five of the best ones. Some respond to Colin’s letter from God, others to the Colorado pastor who wrote for the Belief Blog last weekend.
That comment, which has been truncated above, provoked an outpouring of sympathy and support on reddit, including this comment:
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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My contempt for religionists is more deeply rooted in the fact that none of them seem to accept that they may be wrong. In essence, they insist that God is unfalsifiable; that he is what he is. When challenged to explain their viewpoint (and after realizing they are unable to do so in a logical, rational manner), they retreat to the safety of saying that God is all powerful, but unknowable to humans. They insist that God gives us all free will to believe or not to believe, but that's complete nonsense. How can free will be GIVEN to anyone? The entire concept of "free will" is that you choose on your own, free from interference or permission. It CANNOT be anything other than that. God CANNOT grant you free will...if you choose to believe that you are ACTUALLY free.
An unfalsifiable claim, such as the assertion that God IS real (despite a lack of evidence to support it), is a meaningless claim. Stating that you are a believer is useless information without backup...and ultimately such a viewpoint completely dissolves when exposed to reason. This is why religionists, in my opinion, are so defensive of their "faith". I honestly do believe they are afraid of what they will learn about themselves. It takes infinitely more courage to doubt something and hold a claim to account for itself than it does to simply use it as a safety blanket or a mode of comfort for yourself. If, after careful, meaningful consideration of all the angles you still choose to believe in God. Great. Have at it. But saying that you are a Christian...or Jew...or Muslim...or whatever else because you believe in the principles is an invalid viewpoint if you refuse to consider that those "morals" are wrong.
".....none of them seem to accept that they may be wrong" Actually, the spiritually inclined people I know are quite inquisitive and do a lot of pondering. "None" may not be the best word here.
Perhaps so. I was thinking about a specific type of religionist...I'm sure you know the people I'm talking about. You're correct, not all believers in God are dense and ignorant.
Fantastic post! I wish I could steal it and make it my own! Great job, Satan.
Did you know that one definition for the name Satan is "slanderer?"
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts
It is pretty simple. God gave mankind freewill. If God steps in, then freewill doesn't exist.
If you ask for God's help you will receive it. However, it is usually not the way you expected.
if you ask God to help you be calm, God will provide many oportunites for you to be calm under pressure. Which means stressful situations will increase.
If you have children, surely you have been in the situation where your child was failing but needed to stand on their own. So eventhough your entier person wanted to sweep in a rescue your child, you didn't do that so they could grow.
Same principle.
Why do bad things happen, Satan rules the Earth for now.
Rob,
Since you and god are such good pals that you know exactly how he works, can you ask him what's up with our current drought? Which group is he punishing with that? Gays? Adulterers? Fornicators?
I'm always calm under pressure. Don't need no Sky Fairy for that.
Rob, it's not free will if God gives it to you. Think.
It amazes me that when some thing terrible takes place everybody come out of the woodwork all asking, "Well, where was GOD when this happened?".
Well here is your answer. God is only as far as people want to push him away. Most people in this world want nothing to do with GOD. Until he fits their needs. He is not allowed in schools, government, social areas ect. You want to ask where he is? then you need to ask yourselves when was the last time you wanted him in your life, other than to solve some crisis within in. Then you will have your answer.
He is nowhere. He doesn't exist.
Actually, if it is the nasty Christian god you are talking about, no wonder people push him away, and good thing he doesn't exist.
I think he was at chick fil a eating some sandwich with his normal side of intolerance and a large drink of hate to wash it down.
I have never asked God for anything or to "fix" something with my life...well not since I was 9. Everything I have, or ever will have, is due 100% to my own abilities and effort. To say God blesses you if you are successful or well off or whatever, what does that mean about the overwhelming number of people who live in squalor, misery, and fear? Did God bless them too? Give me a break. Godliness is correlated to how many of your basic needs are met first. People who need to find food and shelter and heat and security just to wake up and see a new day DO NOT have time to worry about things such as how "blessed" or "loved" they are by God. Americans have nothing but time to babble about that because, despite how bad the economy is, we all still have all our needs met. Most of us have food to eat and a bed to sleep in. It's REAL EASY to talk about how much a God loves you when you have those things, isn't it?
Fact is, nobody, no human brain can ever explain why these bad things are happening if there really is a God. But think this way, if the earth was a perfect world, no killings, no crime, no sickness, everybody happy and rich, etc., would we humans still need a God? Most probably we would not. But God did not make it that way, its an imperfect world, and thats where faith comes in. Having faith in God for us to come to him in these trying times, times of need, times of joy is the whole point. He gave us the free will to make our own decisions in life, gave us freedom to believe in him or not. You just have to have faith in him. Despite all the bad things happening, look at also all the good things happening around us, all the miracles happening. For all the billions of planets and galaxies, etc out there in space, why is there only one living planet earth, isnt this a miracle? Faith, gotta have it.
Reason, don't have to use it.
it's called blind faith
What's with the phrase "choose to believe?". Anyone who CHOOSES to believe anything has lost my respect. If my dog dies, and I choose to believe he's alive, and I keep his carcass and feed it and take it for walks and play fetch with it, that doesn't make him alive. It makes me insane. I don't CHOOSE my beliefs, they occur to me via evidence. I seek evidence so that my beliefs are as true or as close to true as possible, considering the information available to me at the time. If there isn't enough evidence to make an informed decision, then I wait for further information before drawing a conclusion. I can't CHOOSE to believe in God because I can't ignore what I know about reality! The universe created itself naturally as per current scientific knowledge. CHOOSING to believe in God means purposefully remaining ignorant of reality. Dearest fellow atheists, next time you hear someone use the phrase "choose to believe', call them out on it, for when this is not just a figure of speech, it is a way of thinking that is detrimental to human progress.
Exactly, metch. I really hear you re "choose to believe" -what a joke. And I do call people out on that one.
Right on.
You do choose what to believe based on the evidence you see before you. You demenstrate that in your post.
Current science does not show that the universe was created naturally. Even Stephen Hawking believes that gravity had to have existed before the universe. That is not even looking at the multiverse.
Earth to CNN: Atheism is a religion (requiring a "church") like not-collecting-stamps is a hobby. Do non-stamp-collectors need albums?
The ONLY reason atheists love the net? Mainstream American media (print & TV) WON'T GIVE US A VOICE!
When was the last time (other than Bill Maher) you saw one interviewed? Or given a column? Or as a character (unridiculed) on TV or in film?
Atheists are the last persecuted minority. More numerous than gays, we're hated more. Understood less.
Give us air time. Web space. Be the first on your block to hug an atheist!
I believe it takes more faith to not believe in God, than it does to believe in Him.
faith is belief without reason. So explain your comment again?
Yeah, I mean, how could anyone not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Unless you prefer Zeus, or Thera, or Og, or Odum, or...
Oh, wait...
Sorry, it's not a faith thing. There is no evidence for the existence of a deity. What's to believe in? I don't believe in the tooth fairy or Santa Clause either.
What
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
oh i know. maybe millions of people spent years of their lives just devising different religions to control the people! THEY MADE IT ALL UP. Wasted their own lives and died in the name of their God. And they did this because they believed in a fable? I doubt it. Religions are not fairy tales. People spent time figuring these tings out for a reason, I dont see how an atheist can think the ancients were so dumb to waste their life faking a religion. Thier is no reason for it. It doesnt control people. It motivates people to live a certain way. Atheism is dumb. dont be scared to believe. or just show me all of the "knowlege and reason" science has given you to prove that God doesnt exist. Logic and reason are evidence of God and nothing more. They are a gift we should cherish. But logic and reason will never trump wisdom which begins with fear of the LORD
I like what Joseph Cambell said: "God is beyond all catagories of human thought."
Yes, great way to win a discussion. Just get everyone to agree that it's far to difficult for them to understand. Just ignore the fool behind the curtain...
Oh man, they didn't pick my posts 🙁
I think it would be very helpful if all religions in the U.S.A. lost their tax exempt status and had to earn their "livelihood" like everyone else. Neither churches or corporations are people–regardless of what the idiots in government think.
Atheists have the same level of Zealotry and stupidity that religious people have, and radical Atheists are just as dangerous as radical religious people.
Don't go ranting on your high horse that you are somehow a better person based on your belief structure.
And what horse are you on Todd?
The important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.
Tommie Tom / Scotty, do as the atheists do in this country to ensure the USA goes belly up. You are too blind to see His truth whether I write it in street language or scripture form. I lost my remote in my butt crack. Jesus told us to send r-apists and murderers back to Him but you atheists lie when you talk about freedom of speech. Scotty ran off all the Christians from the other site he oversaw.
Amen.
Welcome HeavenSent Thrill Seekers! Wow, what a great job you are doing. Thank YOU for making this HeavenSent event a huge success! Our HeavenSent engineers are working around the clock to make your HeavenSent experience the best ever.
Stay Carnal!
Keyword and phrases list. Updated 16.04 EST August 1, 2012
Hey-Zues
Personal worm that feeds off them, is never quenched, for eternity
Believing the lies of satan that they will be collectively mini-gods
Do as the atheists do in this country to ensure the USA goes belly up
Too blind to see His truth whether I write it in street language or scripture form
Jesus told us to send r-apists and murderers back to Him
Atheists lie when they talk about freedom of speech
He ran off all the Christians from the other site he oversaw
That will be the end of you
Itchy Ears
God doesn't have favorites
Carnal
You're a putz, cough fool
Liar against His truth
Abide in Jesus' truth
Prideful
Stay on the wrong side of the gulf until you are blotted out for eternity
Tommie Tom
Scotty
Minions of satan
Prayer changes things
Talmud
Man-made lies of the talmud
Jesus’ letter, the Bible
God’s truth
Jesus’ truth
The truth
Jesus Christ's truth are resurrected to eternity
I am flying with Evil
Boo hoo
I know from Moe Curly of the 3 stooges that nothing works
Truth
Those that believe in Him go with Him to eternity
Lies lies lies
Fat drippings
Personal worms
Horrors, earth quakes, floods, disasters are God's wrath against all of us
You fools doing evil
You atheists
Smug atheists
Prideful atheists
Amen
Throw away that users manual
Prayer really works
No eyes to see or hear His truth
Blotted out for eternity
Burn burn burn for all eternity
Writing your filth
True Christians
The liar satan
Snakes in your Belly
Athiests at CNN
They are blocking my posts again
Dead bones
Logic?? I don't require a single shred to define my beliefs
You must like worms
Pay no attention to the small minded fools that got their brain fried
Read back through the previous articles for over a year dummy
I know you atheists to be fools
Notice who is most quoted in the Golden rule. Jesus Christ's wisdom
You believing something doesn't make it true
I'm not holding my breath
You own those labels
Humble yourself and ask Jesus for forgiveness
Reprobate minds
Jesus told us he would give you reprobate minds
After their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears
Satan's lies causes confusion
Atheists write this garbage
Satan is death
You are fooling yourself if you don't tell gays they suffer for eternity
Tortured for eternity
Pathetic
Blame it on the Christians for having the guts to tell idiots God's truth
Your father Satan
End of days taught in Jesus' truth is nothing new to Christians
Another rock. Nothing new under the sun
You insist on your lies having wings to fly
You are still a pigeon
The entire MO behind the atheist is to throw out as many lies and see what sticks
Debating is the atheists game
Satan impregnated Eve with Cain
I know you atheists to be fools
Christians are on these articles to ensure Jesus Christ's truth is posted
Start your walk with Jesus
Blinded by satan's lies
Test from God. Do you have what it takes to pass?
Serpent is just one of the multiple names of Lucifer aka satan
The big bang and evolution are lies against Jesus’ truth to cause doubt, creating confusion
Satan's lies are built on quick sand foundation
What part of Jesus' truth is clarity and satan's lies are confusion do you not comprehend?
There are no flaws in His word
Jesus' truth stands for eternity
Get over your obsession with me
Lions and tigers and bears, oh my
Rocks, everywhere on this site, rocks
Seeds of Jesus falling on rock.
Stepping over His seeds that get blown by the wind to find their way to fertile grounds
Typical of swines trampling
It's obsessive compulsion to grab at any straw to give a reason not to learn or understand
Go back to posting under my handle and answering yourself
Scott
Get a life and try to grow
Singular swine using multiple handles.
You still continue to refuse to learn your heritage
I've posted the answer numerous times
I'm glad the line from the movie Secretariat sticks in your mind
Statistics prove that the more devout someone is, the higher IQ they have
Read the Bible. It is 100 percent accurate in every facet
It makes me smile to know that people will be tortured in hell for eternity
He steals their handles to write his evil
You atheists steal my handle to post your evil will
Reap the sword of the Lord Jesus when He returns
Stealing our handles
Why are you lying?
Get an education to His truth
What's your point small god savior?
I expect foolish thinking from an atheist
Jesus’ wisdom is roaring it's ugly head throughout the world
The atheist that hijacks my handle to spew their lies
Hhmmm, confused?
Yep... gonna set you and your whole family on fire for all eternity. Its gods will to treat the sanctimonious like swine, and you sir are nothing but a heaping helping of bacon.
Oh, HeavenSent, better to be blind to "His truth" than to believe in some assinine story dreamed up by people 2000 years ago. "Faith" is merely the abdication of reason, the one quality that separates humans from animals. Most religions have become calcified into dogma and idiotic rituals. I'm not arrogant enough to say that God doesn't exist, but I'm not willing to put my faith in something that can't be proven, and which to my mind is utterly preposterous.
Blessed are the cheese makers.......
Perfect! Sense at last 😀
You're taking that out of context.
Obviously it is not meant to be taken literallly, rather he means the manufacturer of any dairy product.
You couldn't be more wrong. You're leaving out all the other manufacturers of dairy products........
once again, i like cheese.
I'm an a-atheist....meaning I don't believe in Atheists. I do believe in people who are hurt and angry at God, so they console themselves by reasoning that God couldn't exist, or they try to "get back at" God by turning their backs on Him. They even go so far as trying to convince others to jump on board with them. The sad reality, however, is that ultimately this position is a lose-lose. The a-atheists lose, and God's kingdom loses. It's God's will that everyone has a relationship with Him through Jesus Christ, His Son, but He won't force Himself on you. Seek Him and you WILL find Him. That is His promise....and God cannot lie. Let Him begin to heal you. And do not hold God responsible for what man has done "in His name."
Wow, what a load of crap.
Do you get angry at Santa if you don't get what you want for Christmas? Do you get angry at Vishnu when things don't go your way?
You already don't believe in lots of mythological things that others do. Try opening up your mind a little.
FOUND HIM! He was under the couch cushions the whole time. Now if I could only get the stink out of the cushions.
I'd say my mind is quite open. I am a Jew who was raised by atheist parents, yet I sought the truth and I found it. His name is Jesus Christ, and I know Him. If you knew how much He loved you, you would want a to get to know Him too.
P.S. I am also a college-educated professional (degrees in science and business), in case you want to write me off as an uneducated fool.
How can you not believe in me. Cogito ergo sum. I can prove that I exist. Let's talk to your God and get him to prove he exists. Oh... but that would show a lack of faith. What a great con game religion is, you can't question the leaders or you are a heretic. Now we see why Christians and Republicans fit together so well.
ih pains and frightens me that an allegedly educated person can actually believe this crap. And yes, I am a scientist too, and don't know any of my colleagues who would agree with you.
Actually, Chris. I do talk to Him and He has proven to me time and time again that He exists.
Pastafarian (Iove the handle, by the way), God doesn't expect you to shut off your brain. "Come and let us reason together" He says....He also said we should love God with "all of our heart, MIND, soul and strength." Do I have unanswered questions? Absolutely. But the most important questions ("Where will I go when my heart beats it's last?" "Who is God and what does He expect of me?") have been answered. This is all a moot point if you aren't open to the fact that you could be wrong. As any good scientist knows, you should check your presuppositions at the door and be open to your findings. Let your next experiment be to seek the Truth....
I dont understand 1. why people blame God for every human sin and 2. why people who dont belive in God are so angry with him
Angry with something that doesn't exist? Why would I blame an imaginary thing that you use to explain things you don't understand. I could care less about your delusions.
@Osama
You said, "I dont understand [...] why people who dont belive in God are so angry with him"
To be angry at someone or something, you first have to believe it exists. Atheists don't believe your imaginary friend does. They aren't angry at it. Frustrated that so many adults still believe in fairy tales, maybe, but not angry at imaginary beings.
Good grief, I hear this so often from christians that I am beginning to believe that you really are brain damaged. One more time, we do not believe that god exists, therefore we can't be mad at it. Got it? I doubt it.
all i can do is sit here and shake my head in disappointment at this segment of the human race.
why do people waste their time arguing with atheists. they are firm and faithful in their non belief. they have chosen thier side. they have already chosen to recognize apes as the beginning of their lineage. they have chosen to accept all the gaps in both the origin of the universe as well as evolution. they are bitter and angry and pretending to feel fulfilled. they have conceded that when their lives come to an end than that is it and nothing else. all of their accomplishments and how they lived their life are totally irrelavant in the long run. their beliefs are sad and pitiful while we who have the truth can rest peacefully. people, stop wasting your time on these foolish men and women. they are only fulfilling what our Bible says about them. Scripture says that there will be a great falling away from the church in end times and also that the world will become increasingly more wicked, earthquakes in diverse places, fowls of the air, and beasts of the sea will be affected in these times. atheists are only confirming the authenticity of the Bible. also, we know that we will be persecuted for our beliefs, perfect example is chick fil a. all these things are expected so lest not waste time casting our pearls before swine. ever notice how angry, vulgar, and disrespectful atheists are? thats been my experience with the ones i have talked to and yet if you ask them they think they are enlightened. they are really in the dark, drawing a line in the sound and daring God to cross it. The Father moves according to his own time and rest assured that all of these railing accusations and unacceptable blasphemies will be judged righteously and those who have been faithful will have their reward. so atheists, keep hating and pretending that you are happy now. and if you are happy than i would suggest that you live your life to the absolute fullest because soon enough the situation will be extraordinarily different. God bless!
Actually, mr, it is your own bible that is a particularly horrid source of hate, including explicitly stated demands from your nasty deity like these from both OT and NT:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
"Casting pearls before swine." Is that like coming on a fat chick?
You have no clue how the world works so you accept the existence of a super being to make it all make sense for you. Your tiny intellect just can't handle the concept of eons of change resulting in all you see around you now. Everything you see was once in a star, it has been moving through the universe to arrive here for billions and billions of years. But you can't handle the scale so you short circuit it and just need an imaginary being to have created it all as a play land for her pets. Err... your lack of faith in the universe is disturbing. But ultimately you won't affect it in any significant way, so who cares?
mr me, your post is filled with flawed assumptions and erroneous statements.
-signed an atheist scientist with a clue
You know, this has made me think...all these responses. I realize that I'm a little man (in more ways than one) and that I need something in my life. Because I'm so "little" I think I will convert and become a follower of Jesus. As an Atheist I am on the terrorist list in America and I'd like to be taken off of that because I'm sure someone is going to report me for my nasty threats eventually. PRAISE JESUS!
Actually, you aren't little at all. If God doesn't exist, there's no intelligence higher that yours. You are a member of the most intelligent species discovered in the universe. Dawkins points out how little the universe cares about us. He didn't notice that a toddler can out-think all the constellations.
God was seen in Aurora when people cried out to him in anguish and grief and untold horror God was there when the community reached out and people from everywhere offered their prayers and condolences. God is no longer a matter of debate is the author of the universe he breathed a word and created a universe a man and in his omnipotence delighted so in humankind that he sacrificed his only son maybe you cant see the tears fall from heaven when these nightmares happen or feel the arms that hold the grieving or the ominous sound from heaven thats crying its almost time its almost time but that doesnt change the course we have always been headed for if your looking for him hes your next heartbeat and Im not worthy to say his name God is in everything we are he is our creator my prayer is for all that find him before he cannot be found love and peace to all
"God is an imaginary friend of the intelectually disabled". Read that quote once and totally agree!
somebody read it to you.
Good for you!
Next challenge: Learn to spell "intellectually."