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'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheists
Some atheists may ask questions on the Internet that they wouldn't have asked in church.
August 1st, 2012
12:03 PM ET

'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheists

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - The Internet has become the de facto global church for atheists, agnostics and other doubters of God, who of course don’t have bricks-and-mortar churches in which to congregate.

We see this phenomenon in motion every day on the CNN Belief Blog, where atheists/agnostics/humanists are among the most zealous commenters.

Recent string of posts around the question of “Where was God in Aurora?” (such as this and this) drew especially large waves of comments that show atheists are using the Internet to commune with one another and to confront religious believers in ways that they don’t usually do in church.

Atheists and other secularists have offline organizations that stage in-person meetings - the Secular Student Alliance has seen its number of campus chapters quadruple in the last five years, to 368 - but the Internet has probably played a bigger role in the rise of the so-called New Atheism. The movement’s adherents evangelize their godlessness, just as many religious folks evangelize their God, often taking to the Belief Blog to do so.

“A lot of millennials who are coming of age have found that the Internet is a fantastic place to talk about their doubt,” says Jesse Galef, communications director for the Secular Student Alliance. “Before the Internet, there was no place for young people to do that. The only place to go was really church, and that wasn’t always a welcoming place.

“But they can go online and discuss these ideas without being judged by friends and families,” Galef says.

For closeted atheists, the Internet’s anonymity is a big draw. A coalition of national atheist groups recently launched a program to transition doubting clergy to lives of open atheism by first having ministers come out anonymously in a closed online community.

Plenty of other atheists, though, are using the Internet to connect with real, named people through Facebook and other online social networks.

“It’s the ability to access a larger community, particularly for people growing up in religiously conservative areas,” Galef says. “There is nobody they can point to to discuss their atheism or their doubts about the Bible or their morality, and the Internet provides that.”

On Sunday, a guest piece from a Colorado pastor argued that it’s possible to reconcile the idea of a sovereign God with the existence of evil and tragedy. The post has drawn 4,239 comments as of Wednesday morning, largely from atheists.

One of those comments - a letter from God penned by an atheist commenter named Colin - caught fire online. Here’s how his letter opens:

"Dear Christians:

"God here. I thought I would take the time to personally explain my absence in the Aurora shootings. While I was at it, I thought I would also explain my absence during every murder, massacre and crime that has ever taken place in world history, and in every war, in every famine, drought and flood.

"You see, I do not exist. I never have. Did it really make sense to you that I would create an entire universe with billions of billions of planets and wait about 13,700,000,000 years just so I could focus on a few Jews from Palestine about 2,000 years ago while ignoring the rest of the 200,000,000 people on the planet at the time? Did I make those few Jews or did those few Jews make me?"

The letter has been posted on reddit, where it attracted another 1,000-plus comments. (Warning: The reddit comments includes foul language.)

The vast majority of comments come from sympathetic atheists and other secularists (the discussion is reddit's atheism thread), a striking example of such folks doing church without God online. Many of those comments are deeply personal, confessional and poignant.

Here are five of the best ones. Some respond to Colin’s letter from God, others to the Colorado pastor who wrote for the Belief Blog last weekend.

1. CarbonEmitter

"I grew up religious and decided to be agnostic (as an) undergraduate. Even though I am now in my late 20s, I still feel slightly guilty because my parents try to ram religion down my throat. My mom converted to my dad's religion (from Christianity to Islam) right before having a double lung transplant in 1995. They are now super-religious and attribute her miraculous recovery to her conversion.

"Reading posts like these remind me of how ridiculous religion is and help relieve my guilt. Thank you /r/athiesm."

2. tazadar

"I like what Carl Sagan said about reassuring fables.

" 'The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life's meaning. We long for a parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable.' "

3. RyGuy2012

"You know, it really irks me to no end to read the article from the pastor, as he claims to not have an answer for why God didn't prevent the Aurora shooting, but then claims to know for sure that God is there when people come to lend their support and sympathies for the shooting victims.

"I just can't wrap my mind around this logic. Like, the pastor must find some other explanation why people are good and do good things. It can't be that people can just be good on their own. Because, apparently (our) natural normal state is to be completely uncaring and disregarding? It's just such a very sad and low opinion to have of your fellow man.

4. funfetti_cookies

"Of course, he says that. You have to scare the people before giving them a reason to listen - "I held her hand as she died." What a great way to start your article. Also don't forget to mention Columbine so people remember that tragedy as well, but then go on to explain why God still exists and this is all part of his plan. Religion is nothing more but a scare tactic to control the masses.

5. ConstipatedNinja

"I don't share this much, but I was raped twice by my pastor when I was 6. And by I don't share this much, I mean that even my own parents don't know (as a side note, he's long since dead, so there's no sense in bringing it up). I had to sit in the same room (with) him for three hours every Sunday while he told everyone - including me - how a decent human being should act. I had to for four entire years before my family moved to a different state.

"When it first happened, I had no idea what was done. I was too young to understand. ... It's indescribable. You're told all this time about this ever-loving being that made you and has planned out your entire life. You're told that he'll protect you when you need it. You're told that if you're good, then he'll be good to you. So obviously, I wasn't good. I wasn't good enough. I was created and the creator of all things looked down upon me and decided that I was a bad egg. Do you know how rough that is for a 7-year-old? I still have problems with self-esteem. …"

That comment, which has been truncated above, provoked an outpouring of sympathy and support on reddit, including this comment:

rumpelstiltskin1

"This stuff is why I love Reddit. Yeah we are a room full of strangers but when it comes down to it we're a community. I love reading the stories of others and reading the heartfelt replies. I love that anyone can express themselves honestly and it will be well-received here (usually). And although this one is a little cheeky, I love that I can learn valuable life lessons of self-acceptance and being able to move on from a guy named ConstipatedNinja. Thank you for sharing your story, and I admire the willingness to share such a personal story; it's truly inspirational."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Atheism • Colorado • Violence

soundoff (4,699 Responses)
  1. Foozah

    I dont understand why would God try to prevent these things when he himself did not partake in these horrible actions done by human beings. I believe that Atheists need to start giving more responsibility to humans thn dumping the imperfect nature of humans on the Divine. Its called free will for a reason and if God prevented us from acting on our own part thn we would be slaves to him. Thats what makes us different thn any other creature on this planet is the fact that we have FREE WILL and the opportunity to do good or evil with it. Just like a person has the choice to believe in God or to not do so. Atheists almost sound hypocritical in a sense and almost down right foolish when they spout things out like " Why wasnt the Holocaust prevented?" It was caused and run by a person called Hitler might I remind you and to blame God for the atrocities commited by this man and his followers is to take away HIS RESPONSIBILITY FOR DOING SUCH THINGS. Let people take responsibility for their actions, its childish to blame it on someone that had no involvement. Choose to believe or dont that is you personal choice, but dont you dare insult those who believe by calling them unintelligent, archaic and such. You want to be respected for not believing thn stop talking down to those who do. Plus it is no ones concern what
    I or any other fellow citizen believes in. Whether I worship the Spaghetti Monster, a statue, a man, a God or nothing is none of your concern. Atheists and Believers need to stop being the most judgmental groups of people if we are to live in a respectable manner.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • plaster city

      "I believe that Atheists need to start giving more responsibility to humans thn dumping the imperfect nature of humans on the Divine"

      Foozah... read this a few times. Try not to laugh.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Something that is divine can not create the imperfect.

      We are a reflection of God because we created him, in all of his deviant lying and twisted child killing glory.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • ChristardMingle.com

      Foozah, your second sentence renders the rest of your post irrelevant.

      "...dumping the imperfect nature of humans on the Divine"

      Athiests don't believe in the divine, therefore, athiests don't dump the imperfect nature of humans on it. Stupid.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • Foozah

      excuse me who are you to say that the Divine cannot create whatever the please?

      August 1, 2012 at 5:00 pm |
    • Foozah

      excuse me who are you to say that the Divine can and cannot create?

      August 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • Foozah

      also ChristalMId...whatever the hell your name is please refrain from calling me stupid because that reduces the conversation to mere insults, something not worth anyones time.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:02 pm |
    • HappilyAgnostic

      God cannot be omnipotent if we have free will. If we are part of 'God's plan,' and he knows what we will do before we do it, (His Omnipotence) then we cannot have free will. It's a paradox. So, if there is a divine creator, he is either NOT all-seeing / all knowing, or we are just his play-toys with no free will at all. (This, by the way, is what sent me down the path of Agnosticism. All my years in Catholic school, and as an altar boy, and not one grown-up, including priests and nuns, could answer why this was so.) "God works in mysterious ways" was the only 'answer' I ever received.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
    • Foozah

      and people dont ignore the major message im trying to send via my post. The fact that human beings need to start taking responsibility for all their actions not just the good ones but the EVIL ones. It seems to me that its almost human nature and a characteristic of my generation to not want to take responsibility, also i do believe that Atheist believe that we have free wiill correct?

      August 1, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
    • LOL@"WhereWasGod"

      "Choose to believe or dont that is you personal choice, but dont you dare insult those who believe by calling them unintelligent, archaic and such"

      Believing in a mythical sky fairy is just as unintelligent, archaic (and such) as believing in the Spaghetti Monster.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:06 pm |
    • Foozah

      @HappilyAgnostic

      I can see what you're saying cause your basing you answer of the Christian doctrines and religious book, but there are other books such as the Torah and the Quran. Also by your statement is it safe for me to assume that you dont believe in free will and if you dont what do you have to say about how we make people take responsibility for atrocities when they indeed by your post have no "free will" what must we do to these people since they have no control over their actions?

      August 1, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • Foozah

      once again we are going back to the insulting game which a five year old is capable of. Please if you want to remain in this convo and be taken seriously refrain from insults. Thank you.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      Foozah, we DO take responsibility for our actions. That's pretty much what Atheists are all about. You are responsible for yourself and your fate, though fate becomes a useless word at this point if we're choosing our own path.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • ChristardMingle.com Whatever my Name Is

      Sorry Foozah! You stupid A.s.s. dumb fuk piece of sh.i.t Christian tool.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • LOL@"WhereWasGod"

      There are older books thank those...
      Like the Iliad, by Homer...

      Age of a story does not make said story true, factual, or anything other than OLD.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • Foozah

      ChristardMingle.com.... You have just achieved being Reported. Congrats!
      Also just FYI, I happen to be Agnostic. An agnostic that believes in respecting peoples beliefs. Unfortunately that's whats dying out, not religious people.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      Foozah, I don't care what people believe, but one can't impose one's religious rules on someone who doesn't believe in that religion.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • Foozah

      Also by making statements such as " Where was God in Aurora" clearly doesnt show responsibility being given to the perpetrator....and other such statements like " why arent genocides, massacares, and murders prevented by God"

      August 1, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • LOL@"WhereWasGod"

      Read the (laughable) post below this, and go chew that guy out then.

      I'm busy worshiping the Spaghetti Monster.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • Foozah

      MetalHeel,

      Explain to me how are they being imposed when in this country we vote on everything? You cannot control how people vote on things like gay marriage or abortion? If they choose to have their vote swayed by their religious beliefs thn so be it. By taking away their right to vote or make a decision based of their religious belief in a democratic system you are in essence undermining democracy. All you can do is educate the people and thats it.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • ChristianMingle.com

      Foozah you are a whiney bi.tch. Are your crying now?? Good lord man.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      Laws that affect everyone in society should not be made based on a particular religious creed. It's basically not fair to those who do not believe and is disenfranchising to them. I understand that people will vote for political offices based on religious beliefs, and that they have a right to, but laws are made separate from the voting process, and they are made, or should be at least, based on the rights of everyone and the ideals the country was founded upon. It's wrong to instate religious laws in a country that is supposed to be founded on a principle of freedom of (and from) religion.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      ChristianMingle.com, go away.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
  2. ChristardMingle.com

    By definition, a kingdom is immoral. That is one of the most ironic inconsistencies with mono-theistic belief systems. They abhor dictators, but then turn right around and worship one.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
  3. TX

    Few 100% true Reasons why Atheism is TERRIBLE and unhealthy for our children and living things:

    † Atheism is a religion that makes you angry, stupid, brainwashed, ignorant & blind.
    † Atheism is a disease that needs to be treated.
    † Atheism makes you post stupid things (90% of silly comments here on CNN blogs are posted by closet atheists)
    † Atheist are satanic and have gothic lifestyle.
    † Atheists are misguided and causes problem in our religious & public society.
    † Atheists are mentally ill, that's why they have no faith.
    † Atheism won't take you to kingdom of heaven and paradise.
    † Atheism making you agree with Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler (denied his faith later), Mao, Pol Pot & other terrible mass murder leaders who killed religious people because of their religious cult!
    † No traditional family lifestyle, no holidays, no culture, boring and feeling 'outsider'
    † Atheists are angry, drug additcted and committ the most crime.
    † Atheist try to convert people over internet because they feel "safer" behind closet.
    † Atheists do not really exist, they just pretend that they don't believe in God and argue with religious people.
    † Atheists have had terrible life experience, bad childhood and not being loved.
    † Most atheists are uneducated... No atheists could run for presidency.
    † Atheism brought upon the French Revolution, one of the most evil events of all of history.
    † Atheism cannot explain the origins of the universe, therefore God exists.
    † All atheists believe in evolution, which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.
    † The Bible says atheism is wrong, and the Bible is always right (see: Genesis 1:1, Psalms 14:1, Psalms 19:1, Romans 1:19-20)
    † Countries where Atheism is prevalent has the highest Suicide rate & Communist countries = Atheism!
    **Only 2-3% of the U.S. are atheists/agnostics VS. over 90% who believe in God (80% Christians) in the U.S.**

    † † Our Prayers goes to atheists to be mentally healthy and seek their creator † †

    PS! the USA is a † nation and will always be. You know it's true and stop being ignorant and arrogant!
    (Take a look at our federal/state holidays, 99% of our presidents, blue laws in parts of the nation, the majority of people, some laws, calendar, culture, etc.)
    http://rightremedy.org/tracts/7

    *****************************************
    Attention: American Christians (being 80% of the population) are stupid and brainwashed for supporting Israel and the Jews when they deny and made the Romans persecute, suffer and kill our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

    We give Israel billions of dollars of aid every year from our hardworking tax-payers' money when nearly 50 million Americans live under poverty in this nation, as well as having lots of problems in this nation, such as bad infrastructure, high unemployment rate, billions of dollars in debt, etc.

    >-->> WAKE UP AMERICA! WE NEED OUR $MONEY$ IN OUR COUNTRY! <<--

    American Jews and Israelis do not even like us, spit and make fun on us, as well as bashing our religion. They just want our money and support!! Google and watch Youtube to see what I'm talking about!

    Keep in mind that there are many Palestinians who are Christians....

    ^^ No, this is nowhere near of being Anti-Semitic or Anti-Atheist – I just tell the truth and opinion! ^^

    August 1, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @TX

      Holy Sh!t !!!!!!!!! 😯

      Peace...

      August 1, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      You need help.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @TX,

      are you still trying to tell us that a pagan calendar modified by Popes is "Christian" and that because "Christmas Day" is a Federal Holiday, the holidays are Christian and that because lying, stealing and killing are illegal, our laws are Christian?

      I don't like to call people names, it's rude, so I'll refrain from calling you the names you deserve and simply say your cut and paste nonsense is inaccurate.

      I'll post all in the individual refutations again if you like.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Stand Tall Athiests

      The above message is EXACTLY why religious zealots are on the way out. Ignorance on top of ignorance. Not even worthy of a real response.

      And people wonder why atheism is on the rise! No more need for stupid hatred and ignorance. I have never felt so liberated than the day I realized there is no god.

      Let logic prevail.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:02 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      If this is a joke then hats off friend, that's hilarious. If not then you need to read a little bit more.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Joe

      Remember kids just say no to drugs. Example seen above on what it does to the human brain.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:06 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      2 quick points:

      "† Atheist are satanic and have gothic lifestyle." The goths were actually a Christin group, might want to edit that before your next cut and paste.

      "† Atheists are mentally ill, that's why they have no faith." So God sends mentally ill people to hell?

      August 1, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • LOL@"WhereWasGod"

      I stopped reading at "Atheism is a Religion"....

      August 1, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • Jesus is the one

      I'm a Christian and I think your whole rant about athiests is what gives us a bad name. Athiests are free to believe what they believe, just as much as we are free to believe what we believe. Your post makes me ashamed to read the same book as you. Jesus loved EVERYONE, he didn't spread lies and hate about the people who chose not to follow him, no, he prayed for them anyway. Making up such lies and falsehoods and spreading such ignorant hate is just about as Un Christian as can be. Athiests simply don't believe, they aren't bad people. YOU on the other hand do believe and must hold yourself to the teachings of the Lord. YOU have no right to pass judgement on people you obviously know nothing about. You even offend your fellow Christians. You need to focus on your own relationship with God and not trouble yourself with the lives of others. Maybe you're just envious of them because deep down you have doubts yourself. You are jealouse because they have a freedom you don't share. My freedom comes from my faith, but you cling to yours with white knuckles. Let go, don't be scared. I pray that God will grant you the strength to see past your prejudice.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:23 pm |
    • Joe

      So if you don't believe in atheists they must be christians. So in your opionion you believe the following as Athesist don't "exist."
      Christianity is a religion that makes you angry, stupid, brainwashed, ignorant & blind.
      Christianity is a disease that needs to be treated.
      Christianity makes you post stupid things
      Christians are satanic and have gothic lifestyle.
      Christains are misguided and causes problem in our religious & public society.
      Christains are mentally ill.
      Christains are angry, drug additcted and committ the most crime.
      Christains try to convert people over internet because they feel "safer" behind closet.
      Christains have had terrible life experience, bad childhood and not being loved.
      Most Christains are uneducated.
      Christains cannot explain the origins of the universe, therefore God exists.
      Countries where Christianity is prevalent has the highest Suicide rate & Communist countries = Atheism!

      Hmmm although I still don't believe you I think you may have a point.

      August 2, 2012 at 7:59 am |
  4. Terri

    There's alot of really nice and really mean christians and there's alot of really nice and really mean atheists. Nobody holds the patent on human kindness. Discrimination and bullying is wrong no matter who does does it. The Golden rule isn't necessarily a christian concept. It's always good to treat others the way you'd want to be treated. When christians start treating anyone with hatred, it gives the whole religion a bad name (Thanks alot Westboro church). The same holds true for atheists (Thanks alot Bill Maher).

    August 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • adam l

      GREAT REPSONSE!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Metalhead Falconer

      Bravo!

      August 1, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • LinSea

      Excellent.

      August 1, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
  5. Bill Johnson

    As an Atheist, I view anyone who believes in religion as mentally handicapped. As an adult, to believe the things religious people take as truth is a sign of stunted mental ability, or in the least, an inability to understand and accept their place in the universe without nurturing fantasies of supernatural beings protecting them. My biggest regret is that Atheists routinely engage these dimwits in debate. The topic of religion is not debatable, and in doing so, gives these poor mildly retarded souls justification for their backwards idiotic belief system.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • adam l

      (Bill Maher's cousin) .

      August 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • Tonyn

      Whatever else you are, you are self-righteous and lacking in intellectual humility. Can you PROVE that god does not exist?..of couse not...your position as an athiest is one of "FAITH", not logic, not rationality, yet you lambast others who come to their conclusions based on "FAITH", as well. Too bad you are so closed minded, opinionated and dogmatic.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      How odd, I feel the same about atheist. They lack the ability to comprehend the essence of God which others readily acknowledge. No amount of discussion penetrates the fog of disbelief. It seems to me like a kind of mental block.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
  6. Mike S.

    Reading a lot of these comments from atheists make me realize how little any of them actually know about God and what the Bible says. God Himself never promised this life would be easy. In fact, the Bible all be assures us of trials and tribulations on this earth. What is promised is eternal life in a place without suffering, and that God is with us during our sufferings in this life. Read Hebrews ch 11 (especially the last half), Revelation 2:10, and many other examples. Hebrews 11 talks of believers being scourged and sawn in two. This world is suffering under the curse of sin, and the forces of evil know exactly how to use that to steer people from God. They perpetrate these tragedies, and those same forces will turn and whisper doubts towards God and questions of why he let it happen knowing full well that God never promised this.

    But then, the forces of evil understand the goal better than most people do. Most people want to believe God is there to make this life easy for them...sort of like Santa Claus. By doing so, you play right into evil's hands. People lose track of the fact that God would never do these things to them or others, and that these acts are being done by humans under evil influence or corrupted by the wrong choices. They lose track of the fact that no matter what happens in this life, Christ still died for them, loves them, and has a place reserved for them in heaven for all those who believe on Him. The very evil forces behind these tragedies haven't lost track, and are using events to their full advantage.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • plaster city

      Mike,
      There are many studies out there showing atheists generraly know more about religions that the people who claim to be of those religions.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Mike

      I know far more of your fantasies than most followers do.

      I study it (an other diseases of the mind) quite closely.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • asdf

      Revelations was written by a priest who was exiled to a tiny Mediterranean island alone. He took mushrooms or whatever for years and came back with FOUR versions of Revelations and they picked the least psychotic one. I would LOVE to know what DIDN"T make it into that book.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      The statistics are in on this one, atheists know more about the bible then the believers, proven.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • adam l

      @MIKE S. they're like Pirhannas eh.
      I understand .

      August 1, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • Bill

      Mike S:
      God is cruel and evil. Here is some scripture for you to ponder:
      Exodus 21:7-11 NLT
      Exodus 21:20-21 NAB
      Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
      Ephesians 6:5 NLT

      August 1, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
  7. Voltaire

    If God did not exist it would be necessary to invent him. But all nature cries aloud that he does exist; that there is a supreme intelligence, an immense power, an admirable order, and everything teaches us our own dependence on it.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      And...is that suppose to prove something?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      A little birdie told me god was real.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      "But all nature cries aloud that he does exist"

      Could you elaborate a little bit?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Voltaire

      My works are available in the public domain. I suggest starting with "Candide"

      August 1, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
  8. Michael

    God's existence is incompatible with the belief that he is omniscient–unless you throw out self-awareness as an attribute of God, because - and I should add emphasis

    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN OMNISCIENT BEING TO POSSESS SELF-AWARENESS.

    (Roll that around in your head for awhile and you will realize it is true)

    August 1, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Shiva

      The Godhead does not have self awareness...that is why I dance for him.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
  9. john

    i'm gonna make a bunch of people mad with this one...

    ""The Lord helps those that help themselves." remember that little phrase? the law-abiding citizens who were in a "gun-free zone" were following the law and couldn't "help themselves".

    So to answer the topic question "Where was God in Aurora?" He was shoved to the side by yet another rule handed down by men.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • William Demuth

      So the six year old with the bullet in her throat should have shot it out with Bozo the Clown from Hell?

      Really? Seriously?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • asdf

      yeah that 6 year old really had it coming. Her mother who miscarried from the trauma obviously had it coming too. Thanks, Jesus, for dishing out justice again!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      If there were more guns in that theater more people would have died.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
  10. WachetAuf

    Fantastic, very imaginative thinking happening here. What would really be interesting is if some really devoted Christian had the courage to engage teh discussion with an open mind for a while.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      What would that sound like to you?

      August 1, 2012 at 5:31 pm |
  11. Bill Thorp

    So... the concept of God being omnipresent comes from the Old Testament. Historically, the tribes of Judah and Israel were competing for political / religious power via the placement of temples. They happened to believe in the same God. Where God lived was a big deal, because people understood a gods' power as being localized to certain area of land. Things got even more complicated during the "Babylonian Captivity" or "Exile" when the Jewish high-castes were captives in Bablyon. Its widely believed that they literally took dirt with them to Babylon for their temples, because without the dirt of Judea there would be no Judean god in Babylon. This was certainly a problem! Almost directly because of this, stories such as Jonah and the Whale evolved – which attempt to show that, no, the Judean God's power was *not* localized to small patch of land in current day Israel. In fact, God can get fish to eat you off the coast of Tyre.

    So where was God in Aurora? Fishing off the coast of Tyre? Suppose for a moment that there is a God, but intercession is not his plan – that life is a test. Or suppose for a moment there is no God. The real question then has always been "Where were we?" Could we have prevented this? Could we have saved this young man's soul? ... For in the absence of God, we are responsible for our own Salvation.

    "Show me your faith without deeds and I will show you my faith by my deeds." – James 2:18

    August 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Just more rhetoric and speculation, absolutely no substance.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • Atheism is a religion

      voice of reason, nothing you have written has any substance whatsoever.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Atheism is a religion

      Alright then, I challenge you to make some sense, go!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
  12. cesarpla2003

    Atheists are talking about Christians being brainwashed, that the bible is not true, and that God does never exist, ok, fine!! But....What makes you think that you are not being brainwashed in what you believe? What makes you think that it is not a brainwash that God does not exist? Are you basing on some philosophy or scientific theory that may be in fact defective? What did you base on when you formed your beliefs, a text book? Your own intellect? Your friend? Girlfriend/Boyfriend? Your family member? a podcast? Atheist blog? Theory of others disproving God? Your lack of Faith? The secular student alliance? Darwin? Dawkins? Hitchens? Your neighbor? Your teacher? The person who you do not want to loose respect to? How do you know if these are all true? Perhaps a slick "belief" salesman pitch convinced you about what you call your belief?

    What about the Christian testimony of Billions? Why is this that God they claim exists is changing their lives? What about the bible being one of the most sold books in the world? Why does at least one person that you cross paths with believes in God, why are Christians fervent in their faith? Why haven't former atheist rulers failed to exterminate Christians? What about philosophies that promised that Christianity was going to disappear in less than 3 yrs or 30 yrs or 300 yrs or 1000 yrs or 1500 yrs? Why are Christian churches growing? If the bible is a "myth" why is it very known and it hasn't yet disappear? What about all the prophecies of the bible coming true? What about the 25000 + Archaeological evidences of the bible? Let me tell you this. I used to disregard God and did not want to know anything about Him. When I surrendered to Him, He changed my life 180 degrees. Give him a chance and you will get to know Him. If not, that's fine. Go ahead and ridicule me.. atheists, question your selves first whether you have been brainwashed instead of Judging a group of people that believe in God.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      You have a lot of "what's" in there sunny. Prove there is a god or clamp it!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • ChristardMingle.com

      Brainwashed NOT to believe in an imaginary friend? You are an idiot.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • LOL@"WhereWasGod"

      So, by your logic, just because someone says that they 'believe' in dragons, fairies, and werewolves, it 'magically' makes all of these things real?

      There are older texts than the bible..should we take what is written in them and accept them as 100% fact? (Which would give credence to all kinds of monsters that simply do not, nor have ever existed)

      Your logic is flawed by your blind 'belief'.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Tricked into not believing. Really.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @cesarpla2003

      Hi -cesarpla2003...

      You Said: " What about the Christian testimony of Billions? Why is this that God they claim exists is changing their lives? What about the bible being one of the most sold books in the world? Why does at least one person that you cross paths with believes in God, "

      All 'Argumentum Ad Populum... or, if you prefer... 'Ad Numerum'.

      Argument by the 'numbers' or the 'majority' doesn't necessarily *mean* anything.

      You Said: " why are Christians fervent in their faith?

      Circular logic or reasoning with a 'self-sealing' **belief** system, is often the case. Taking things on 'faith', requires no thinking, evidence or proof (in relationship) to Christianity or any other religion.

      You Said: " Why haven't former atheist rulers failed to exterminate Christians?"

      Pretty much all faulty premises and conclusions.

      As to the rest of your posting... I'm getting tired going thru each fallacy and 'belief'.

      I think you get the picture.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      August 1, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      I'm a non-believer but I don't think brainwashing is a correct term to use for most thiests, as per the definition:

      brainwash (ˈbreɪnˌwɒʃ)

      — vb
      ( tr ) to effect a radical change in the ideas and beliefs of (a person), esp by methods based on isolation, sleeplessness, hunger, extreme discomfort, pain, and the alternation of kindness and cruelty.

      I'm sure there are extreme cases where it does happen, but i think most people just decide for themselves. I do think being raised a certain religion makes you much more likely to continue to be that. Some poeple never really choose, they were just raised that way, but I wouldn't call it brainwashing.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • zloggins

      Because Science, dammit.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • Joe

      It maybe the best selling book but it is also the worst written book ever. Try reading it as like 99.99% of believers insist that they did but don't because its boaring. What is your evidence that it isn't just made up? Check the Library of Congress and you will see it is in the fiction section. While you are at it look up the term brainwash. A good number of atheists were raised under a religion and decided that they did not believe in it or any other religion. The opposite of brainwash.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • WachetAuf

      Most of us are "Christian" by accident of birth. Had we dropped from our mother's womb while she lived in Yemen, we would be Muslim. There is where the brainwashing began and continued until we escaped the bonds of those relationships. For most of us we are too comfortable to even wish to escape. Because of the repressive forces in our society which force compliance withteh group ethic, the more difficult road is the one which the athiest takes. It is therefore easier for me to believe that an athiest is athiest by virtue of objective reason than it is for me to believe that you are "Christian" by virtue of objective reason. The implied repressive forces and entanglements in your life also make it impossible for you to ever acknowledge your dillemma and the error of your belief system.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • Bill

      God is cruel and evil:
      http://www.evilbible.com/
      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

      August 1, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
  13. Jeff

    Look people it is your choice what you want to believe in no one elses. So if you believe in Jesus, good for you, me too. Those that have other religions or that don't have religious beliefs, that is your oppinion keep it too yourself. No body is making that decision for you. God is giving you a chance to make your own decision, so make your own decision.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • plaster city

      One correction...
      God is not giving atheists the ability to make their decisions. OK?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Jeff, until you can prove there is a god what you say is meaningless. Get it?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • asdf

      Somehow half this country walks around with "I heart Jesus" t-shirts and nobody says a word, but people start discussing atheists and suddenly they are disrespecting everyone and everything. News flash: By sayign you are christian, you are saying that muslims, jews, hindus, buddhists, taoists, atheists, and everybody else is wrong. There is no difference.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Atheism is a religion

      voice of reason, you need to reverse everything you write on here, it all applies to you too , dick

      August 1, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      @Atheism is a Religion You can't prove a negative. I claim there are invisible, unfeelable, unsensable jellyfish all around us at all moments in time. Prove they don't exist.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Atheism is a religion

      I challenge you to make some sense, go.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • Joe

      Love this religious arguement. If you don't believe in God than it is because of God lets you. Or you must believe in Satan.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Bill

      Please read the bible skeptically:
      http://www.evilbible.com/
      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

      August 1, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
  14. Comparative Mythology 101

    Horus: Egyptian, 6000 BC
    Dionysus: Greek, 1500 BC
    Attis: Greek, 1200 BC
    Mithra: Zoroastrian, 600 BC
    Krishna: Hindu, 400 BC
    Jesus: Christian, 30 AD
    A) Born on Dec. 25 – Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus (by way of plagiarizing a Pagan holiday
    B) Virgin Birth – Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus
    C) Sign of Star in the East – Horus, Krishna, Jesus
    D) Adorned by 3 Kings – Horus, Jesus
    E) Teacher at age 12 – Horus, Mithra, Jesus
    F) Ministry started at 30 – Horus, Jesus
    G) 12 Disciples – Horus, Mithra, Jesus
    H) Traveled with Disciples Performing Miracles – Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus
    I) AKA The Truth, the Light, God’s Shepherd – Horus, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus
    J) Betrayed – Horus, Mithra, Jesus
    K) Crucified – Horus, Attis, Mithra, Jesus
    L) Buried 3 days – Horus, Attis, Mithra, Jesus
    M) Resurrected – Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, Jesus

    August 1, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • asdf

      Since there are around 2,700 deities in recorded human history, I'm only 1/2,700th more of an atheist than a Christian.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • ChristardMingle.com

      Christards, read CM 101's post carefully. If you can't understand this, you are a complete moron.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • NickZadick

      BRILLIANT! I wanted to make that...glad you did!!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • cavediver

      the Jews were hella impressed with Horus and Mithra:))

      August 1, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • joseph campbell

      Maybe they were all the same person just wearing different masks.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • EasyTiger

      In every society that has ever existed, since the dawn of time, there has been a 'God' myth. Your post verifies that. What you have described is the logical result of cultural interaction. What's really interesting is that even unconnected cultures have similar God myths. Creation, flood, deity come to earth, resurrection, life after death in some form, souls, eternity. While these are not always centering around the same figure in their mythology, the concepts often hold. You mention eastern religious deities, but you'll find very similar mythology in early Scandinavian, Native American, Mayan, Celtic, etc. It's actually exactly your point which has led me to believe that this very demonstrated need for a God and the relative global consistency of this need despite a lack of cultural exchange or geographical location perhaps indicates that the need to believe is innate and that God is a real thing. Maybe society didn't invent the need for God. Maybe the need to believe already exists within us and we are born looking for something to believe in. My thoughts – dumb as they are.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
    • Tonyn

      The beauty of myth is that it is timeless...and timelessly valid...

      August 1, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
  15. who is your god?

    And then there's this favorite quote by Stephen F Roberts:

    "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

    The god you believe in is a by-product of where you were born and how you were raised.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
  16. Poor Richard

    May the lot of you never find yourself in a foxhole...

    August 1, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • timing is everything

      yea, because you might find yourself next to some parying religious zealot.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • asdf

      ONLY atheists are in foxholes. If you had real faith you wouldn't hide from your "fate".

      August 1, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Or in a brainwashing church.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • rdeleys

      Contrary to popular belief, there are plenty of atheists in foxholes.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • derp

      Explain to me why they take wounded soldiers to be treated by scientists (doctors) instead of taking them to a church so that they can pray to get better.

      Maybe it's because when your foxhole praying fails, you are forced to rely on rationality and science instead of faith in supernatural superheroes.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
  17. Will

    How do atheists define good and evil? What is the standard?

    August 1, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Well, obviously it isn't the christian standard!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • Will

      I am posting this as a serious question, not as a retorical one.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • William Demuth

      The same standard used by all rational humans, moral relativisim, or situational ethics.

      Religious people usually just plagerize Zoroastrianisim, but screw it all up in translation.

      You fundies, evil to the core, bigoted and indoctrinated always try the same story and always lose.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • plaster city

      Except for the people that fly planes into buildings, I suspect the same way you define it.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Will, is this your first time here? We've been over this a zillion times. Do you read anything other than the bible?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • adam l

      mannn, that's the only answer I ever hear from Athiests! There is one question with human kind, and it is, WHAT IS ALL THIS FOR? and the only thing I ever hear from Athiest is " It all has nothing to do with your imaginary God" , I have yet to hear a solid hypothesis.... But now that I have posted this, the snarky and arrogant response of a typical athiest will enlighten me.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • Will

      But by that standard, as long as someone can rationalize something, it is not evil. (or am I missing your point?)

      August 1, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
    • Elizabeth

      I'm a lifelong atheist. "Evil" is a religious concept, but I define an act as "good" if it reduces harm or suffering of sentient beings.

      Fair enough?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
    • plaster city

      Adam,
      Sorry if that doesn't satisfy you, but that's just the way it is.
      Maybe now you can understand human nature and why man has the need to formulate religions to help satisfy that need.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Why don't you answer that? Really I'm serious.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Will,

      do you really think a burning bush and clay tablets are necessary to figure out that killing, stealing and lying are wrong?

      Morality is *not* defined by religion. It is the consensus of conscience for a community. Always was, always will be.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Ok here goes. Good: treating others how you would like to be treated. Evil: discriminating against gay people.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • plaster city

      Will,
      There are people that rationalize their evil. And many of them happen to be religious, by the way.
      But you are missing the point that your morals are not formed in a vaccuum. They are formed in a society with other people trying to eek out an existance together.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Adam

      Life is a meaningless coincidence that serves no higher purpose.

      Party on!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      If we look back to ancient social groups, the beginnings, way before any morality or the definition thereof existed.
      What we find are tribes where altruism won-out over bullies. For example; the tribe witnesses one of their own jump into the river to save another. The reaction is one of selflessness and in return the one jumping in to save the drowning receives something in return, a sense of doing the right thing. The remainder of the tribe gravitates towards this person and in the end, the bully of the tribe attempting to rule the tribe is eventually killed by the tribe. Interesting stuff.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      @Will Empathy. I would never do anything to someone that I knew would hurt them. And I know it will because I feel things myself and can relate. Do you really need a written down code to just be nice to other people and just strive to make the world a better place?

      @adam Life is what it is. An experience that lasts 70 or so years (your results may vary) in which you try to do as much as you can, be as good a person you can, and make yourself as happy as you can. That's it. There are plenty of beautiful and awesome things that can be experienced in life.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • asdf

      @Adam – you are starting with the assumption that there is a purpose for our existence. Considering we are one planet among literally COUNTLESS others, and one species amount COUNTLESS others on this planet, who have only been here for a FRACTION of the time – I would bet that humans are not an integral part of any purpose, if there is one.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Adam I

      Q: Where did we come from? (Lots of science applied to this question.)

      Q: Why are we here? (There are no answers in science. Check with the Philosophy department.)

      Q: Where are we going? aka What happens when we die?
      A: Does it matter? You're dead. You get one shot at it.

      Live well.
      Be thoughtful.
      Be generous.
      Be remembered well.
      Leave a legacy.

      If you do these things it doesn't matter if you believe in an after life or not.

      Q: Is this all there is?
      A: Yes.

      This is all there is. You live and then you die. Can you handle that?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • Noocrat

      "as long as someone can rationalize something, it is not evil."

      Nope, missed the point. As a previous poster mentioned, moral relativism. (aka the golden rule) Empathy exists outside of religion.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • czeh

      The golden rule works as a fine moral guide without the need for religion: Treat other people how you would want to be treated.

      Religious people believe they have to adhere to this sort of principle because how they act determines which way they go in the afterlife, up or down.

      Atheists understand there is no afterlife and therefore try to make the most of this life and not squander it by ending up in jail or worse.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • Will

      Thanks all for the replys!

      August 1, 2012 at 5:16 pm |
    • Cloudgazer

      Will: most athist have the same moral underpinnings as you do just with out the God fable. I refer to myself as a cultual christen. I was raised in the church so when I figured out I thought it was bull and left the church I did not create a whole new moral system out of thin air.

      Most, not all, of the moral code of the bible can be reached by a more reason based approach. Either thourgh the idea of self sovernity( I naturaly own one thing: myself and no one has a right to it) or the idea that social order is in my self internst, Murder is wrong becuase it causes social striff and is the highest form of theft. I don't like have my stuff stolen so I will not steal from others, etc. There are other ways of getting to right and wrong that are very close to the new testement stuff but I think you get the point.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
  18. PrimeNumber

    I think I'll become a different kind of sheep. The atheists establish a conclusion ("God does not exist"), and then reason toward that conclusion using their logic (how reliable is their logic depends upon what kind of day they are having). If I conclude that God exists, the atheists tell me that no thinking person could come to such a conclusion. Since the atheists have done my thinking for me, I'll just follow them. Beside, they seem like such nice people.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Athiests don't herd sheep, so you are on your own.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Hey wiseguy! Prove there is a god or shut the f*uck-up!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • adam l

      They really are very friendly and inviting eh? ...

      August 1, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • asdf

      at least we aren't stealing your money while we're at it.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Jack

      So do nice people stereotype?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • MetalHeel

      Look, ya'll came to the conclusion a long time ago that the god your religion follows exists. Ya'll did that first. Atheism rejects that claim, and other similar ones, because it doesn't make sense to us. Calling our disbelief in your god a "conclusion" we came to doesn't really make sense to me because the followers of your religion made the original fantastic claim of an all powerful god. Does it not make sense for someone to be a bit skeptical of that? And we don't care what you believe, just leave everyone else outside of your religion alone. No one's telling you to stop believing in a god, but we do think (or I do at least) that you would be fine, and even better off, without a god.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • rdeleys

      Who says atheists reason the way you claim? Many atheists started out as Christians and threw their religion overboard after they realized what a sick crock of s–t it was. Read you bible carefully and then get back to us. See if you can believe that drivel without cherrypicking.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • adam l

      nice people are good at statistics.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @PrimeNumber,

      I'm delighted that you recognize that you are, in fact, a sheep.

      Just watch out for your shepherd!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • Bill

      Please read the skeptics bible:
      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

      August 1, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • visitor

      Years ago I would have thought people were just dinking around with a post like that. I have come to realize how shallow some people think and now believe sadly that you really think that everyone comes to conclusions before logic. You probably never broke bread with a scientist in your entire life.

      August 1, 2012 at 6:14 pm |
  19. Henry

    Great is the LORD and most worthy of praise; he is to be feared above all gods. For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens and the earth. Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and joy in his dwelling place. Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. Let the heavens rejoice, let the earth be glad; let them say among the nations, "The LORD reigns!" Let the sea resound, and all that is in it; let the fields be jubilant, and everything in them! Then the trees of the forest will sing, they will sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.

    God is Eternal without beginning or end. God is Perpetual, continuing without interruption. God is Omnipotent, all-powerful, with unlimited power. God is Absolute, perfect in completeness. God is unlimited, without restrictions or boundaries. God is Sovereign exercising full supremacy and full authority over the entire universe. God is Invincible or incapable of being defeated, unconquerable, and the list goes on. Some of God attributes haven’t been reveled yet, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"

    Therefore, it’s difficult to comprehend the attributes of God from our standpoint, it’s difficult to grasp the fact that such awesome and powerful being, and the creator of the universe would create man in his own image and likeness, by forming the man from the dust of the ground and breathing into his nostrils the breath of life becoming a living being, with the capacity to chose between right and wrong. Therefore the LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it, and in the middle of the garden God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in order to test him, and the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

    Sure enough, what God commanded the man not to do, he did, and he blamed the woman and the woman blamed the serpent. All they had to do was to say no to the serpent, but obviously they didn’t understood the cost attached to the forbidden fruit, therefore, sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and death came to all men because all sinned. Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man." Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. That’s how Cain became the first murderer by killing his brother Abel out of envy and jealousy, since by faith Abel offered a better sacrifice.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Henry

      Really? Who shoveled that snot into your head?

      Your parents must be WAYYYYY out there!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Sacrifice? Sin? Snakes?

      Dude, you need some SERIOUS meds!

      August 1, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Sounds like a fairytale to me.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
    • Be fair

      Not only are you a bit long in the tooth but you really believe that crap you spout. Amazing.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Thank you for posting
      a. your belief in polytheism, (paragraph #1),
      b. your belief that god(s) was not the creator of spacetime, (paragraph #2),
      c. and the fact that your god tricked Adam and Eve, (paragraph #4).

      That's really some system ya cooked up there, dude.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • derp

      "he is to be feared above all gods"

      I personally would prefer a god that is to be loved, more than feared.

      I guess fear is a better tool for controlling the unthinking masses.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Hank, do you know which Sumerian myth the "garden" myth in Genesis was taken from ?

      August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • Henry

      The fact that unbelievers do not acknowledge the authority of the God of Heaven that doesn’t mean that unbelievers are outside His dominion, since God is Lord, Master, Creator, and Judge of the Universe. If you are an unbelievers you will have more than enough proof after you die and you are quickly taken into the presence of the living God, then you will want to beg Him for His mercy for not believing in His beloved son Jesus Christ when you had the chance, but you will not be able to move your tongue, you will not be able to speak as your miserable soul is condemned to perpetual agony and torment in hell for all eternity, where their worm does not die, and the fire is never quenched.

      August 1, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • What IF

      Henry,

      We can tell so much about a person by how he says that his fantasy god behaves. With a huge array of possibilities, you pick this particular imaginary scenario - without a scintilla of evidence.

      Guess what we know about you?

      August 1, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
  20. ChristardMingle.com

    The fundies are in rare form today! Stupid argument after stupid argument. No facts, no common sense, no intelligence.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • adam l

      typical arrogance.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • derp

      "Stupid argument after stupid argument. No facts, no common sense, no intelligence"

      "typical arrogance"

      Yes, arguing from position of nothing more than blind faith is certainly arrogance.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.