 |
|
|
|
 A billboard criticizing Christianity is going up in Charlotte, North Carolina, host city of the upcoming Democratic National Convention.
August 13th, 2012
10:03 AM ET
First on CNN: Atheist group targets presidential candidates' faith with billboardsBy Dan Merica, CNN Washington (CNN) - A prominent atheist group is using next month's Democratic National Convention to take aim at the presidential candidates' religion, putting up billboards targeting Mormonism and Christianity in Charlotte, North Carolina. “Our political system is rife with religion and it depends too much on religion and not enough on substance," said David Silverman, president of American Atheists, sponsor of the ads. "Religion is silly and religion has components that are inherently divisive. … There is no place for any of that in the political system,” he said. The billboards go up Monday in Charlotte and will stay up for a month at a cost of roughly $15,000. The Democratic convention runs September 3-6. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The billboard targeting Christianity features an image of Jesus Christ on toast and this description of the faith: "Sadistic God; Useless Savior, 30,000+ Versions of ‘Truth,’ Promotes Hates, Calls it ‘Love.’ ”
The billboard targeting Mormonism lambastes - and, Mormons would say, distorts - specific Mormon doctrines: "God is a Space Alien, Baptizes Dead People, Big Money, Big Bigotry.” The Mormon billboard features a man in white underwear, a reference to special Mormon garments. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Both billboards feature the line "Atheism: Simply Reasonable." American Atheists had wanted to put the anti-Mormon billboard in Tampa, Florida, to coincide with the Republican National Convention there later this month. Presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney is a Mormon. When no billboard company in the city would lease the group space for such a sign, Silverman said the organization decided to focus solely on the Democrats in Charlotte. “Presidential conventions are for ideas, not ideology - platforms, not platitudes," Silverman said. "If a person believes stupid things, we have every right to question his or her judgment, and that directly impacts how the nonreligious voter votes.” CNN Belief Blog: Atheist leader hopes to mobilize closeted nonbelievers Some religious leaders said the billboards showed a misunderstanding of how faith works. "That billboard makes the most common high-school error when it comes to atheism," wrote the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author, in an e-mail to CNN. "It's not arguing against the existence of God, but against religion. The American Atheists need to go back to school on this one." Martin also questioned the language used on the billboard: "And as for 'promoting hate' they're doing a bang-up job themselves with that billboard." Terryl Givens, a Mormon professor at the University of Richmond, called American Atheists "petty and vindictive." “If this example of adolescent silliness is what atheists mean by being reasonable, then neither Mormons nor other Christians have much to worry about," he said of the billboards. "When atheists organize to serve the poor and needy of the world, they will be taken more seriously." CNN Belief Blog: Unbelieving preachers 'come out' as atheists It's not the first time the American Atheists group has released in-your-face billboards. Earlier this year, the group put up two billboards in heavily Muslim and Jewish enclaves in New Jersey and New York bearing messages in Arabic and Hebrew. “You know it’s a myth … and you have a choice,” the billboards said. At the time, Silverman said the signs were intended to reach atheists in Muslim and Jewish areas who may feel isolated because they are surrounded by believers. In addition to the billboards, Silverman said his group plans to stage protests at both conventions. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
When I was younger I attend church, sang in chorus etc. but once out in the world and having lived overseas I gained a different view. It doesn't really matter what you believe in (dragons, fairies, etc) as long as you believe in it passionately. That's where the power is, not in that there is a God. I'm turned off by religion and the people that flaunt their beliefs as if that makes them better. If there was a deity that powerful we all know about it. There would no mistakes, and he wouldn't waste time sending his 'son' to save us,. And he certainly wouldn't had a bunch of people write a book for him. One so powerful would do it himself... geez!
It did come in handy when those nice German boys had to gas al those nasty Jews, didn't it?
Humans are capable of incredible things when they believe absoulutly.
Incredibly horrible things.
A few questions should help shed light on the relationship between religion and rational thought.
The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the field of:
(a) Astronomy;
(b) Medicine;
(c) Economics; or
(d) Christianity
You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are a:
(a) historian;
(b) geologist;
(c) NASA astronomer; or
(d) Christian
I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am
(a) A gifted psychologist
(b) A well respected geneticist
(c) A highly educated sociologist
(d) A Christian with the remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient facts.
I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am
(a) a delusional schizophrenic;
(b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly
(c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or
(d) your average Christian
Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:
(a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;
(b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;
(c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or
(d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.
I believe that an all powerful being, capable of creating the entire cosmos watches me have $ex to make sure I don't do anything "naughty". I am
(a) A victim of child molestation
(b) A r.ape victim trying to recover
(c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions
(d) A Christian
The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:
(a) Architecture;
(b) Philosophy;
(c) Archeology; or
(d) Religion
What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:
(a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they are morally obliged to believe on pain of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;
(b) Religion can make a statement, such as “there is a composite god comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;
(c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth; or
(d) All of the above.
If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:
(a) a deep psychiatric issue;
(b) an irrational fear or phobia;
(c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or
(d) my religious belief.
Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free and my own salary is also tax free, at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the right to tell others what to do. I am
(a) A sleazy Wall Street banker
(b) A mafia boss
(c) A drug pusher; or
(d) A Catholic Priest, Protestant Minister or Jewish Rabbi.
What do the following authors all have in common – Jean Paul Sartre, Voltaire, Denis Diderot, Victor Hugo, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant, David Hume, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, John Milton, John Locke, and Blaise Pascal:
(a) They are among the most gifted writers the World has known;
(b) They concentrated on opposing dogma and opening the human mind and spirit to the wonders of free thought and intellectual freedom;
(c) They were intimidated by the Catholic Church and put on the Church’s list of prohibited authors; or
(d) All of the above.
The AIDS epidemic will kill tens of millions in poor African and South American countries before we defeat it. Condoms are an effective way to curtail its spread. As the Pope still has significant influence over the less educated masses in these parts of the World, he has exercised this power by:
(a) Using some of the Vatican’s incomprehensible wealth to educate these vulnerable people on health family planning and condom use;
(b) Supporting government programs that distribute condoms to high risk groups;
(c) Using its myriad of churches in these regions to distribute condoms; or
(d) Scaring people into NOT using condoms, based upon his disdainful and aloof view that it is better that a person die than go against the Vatican’s position on contraceptive use.
ReplyReply AllMove...mls
Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free and my own salary is also tax free, at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the right to tell others what to do. I am
(a) A sleazy Wall Street banker
(b) A mafia boss
(c) A drug pusher; or
(d) A Catholic Priest, Protestant Minister or Jewish Rabbi.
might want to do some research on that one. The church does not pay taxes, but the people on the church payroll certainly do.
Now that was an interesting read. It was been copied to my hard drive with great glee1
Good one. Copy and paste to PC with your persmission.
Who am I?
I spend over an hour creating a worthless post trying to convince others that only my belief is correct. I desperately try to use science to prove my belief, but to no avail. I constantly berate others and put up billboard signs showing my belief while at the same time accusing other religious people that they are the one that are intrusive. When I have no valid response to an argument, I resort to either name-calling or pick on someone's grammar.
a) Atheist
b) Atheist
c) Atheist
d) All of the above
wow that billboard looks like another sign of hatred and bigotry. ironic.
True,.. I thought religious are above such silly bitterness, and it is the religious nuts' forte to do those.. I am disappointed in them today
Disagreeing or even mocking a belief is neither hatred nor bigotry...
Don't tell that to the Democrats, Dissagree with anything that Obama said and you are a biggot, racist, or filled with hate/hate speak.
It's neither hatred or bigotry. It's well-deserved ridicule.
I have yet to see a single Atheist on these boards ever be simply reasonable.
reasonable
.
1. Capable of reasoning; rational: a reasonable person.
2. Governed by or being in accordance with reason or sound thinking:
3. Being within the bounds of common sense:
4. Not excessive or extreme; fair:
sadly, your average religious person does not meet any one of the above definitions.. whadayaknow!
So my rejection of your fabricated Bronze Age Super Hero as the ruler of time space and dimension is somehow unreasonable?
Then you're not actualy reading what people post. There are a few reasonable atheists here open to rational debate adn discourse, just as there are a few theists who do the same.
Leo – be honest. What you mean is "if you don't agree with me, you're irrational."
Maybe not all atheists are reasonable, but if you haven't seen any that are, then you just aren't looking or refuse to see it.
I should have said "I haven't seen very many atheist that fall under the definition of "simply reasonable".
Leo,
Since you call, I appear. Okay, humor aside (the other posts here are affecting my language as well, I apologize).
So what is it that you want ot reason out? Please ask?
Will take time to reply though, going to sleep now. Got to take care of patients tommorrow.
I so enjoy the irony.
So many are forced to fear the Theist.
For centuries you could lose your job, your kids, your place in the community and even sometimes your life by admitting you don't believe. Non believers or outsiders to the local dominant faith actually lived in fear of violence. Minority groups have been persecuted for centuries
We just want to return the favor, and drive these bigoted cult members back underground.
You can start your religious Holy War, but rest assured, WE can end it.
.. and the funny thing is, even the act of showing them "this is what you are doing" is sufficient for these mindless masses to pull the persecution card and yell out intolerance..
Really, people who LOOVE to dish out a certain treatment can not even take a sample whiff of it? oh the irony.. and hypocrisy..
We will take you seriously when your words become acts of kindness. The world is drowning with hate. No need to pollute the waters even further.
oh gee oh gee we got an opportunity to be taken seriously by this junior fella.. what an honor..
athiests help folks because they want to help folks and expect nothing in return.
christians help folks because after death they want a cushy place in heaven for doing that.. not to just help the needy. selfish buggers!
“Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook.” – Adolf Hitler
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” Adolf Hitler
Your point? Many criminals declare publicly their innocence.
So an organization that detests the promotion of organized systems of belief is asking people to join their own organized system of belief. Irony, hypocrisy, stupidity, take your pick.
Since atheism isn't a belief system, I'm going with stupity on your part.
I agree with atheists that religions are silly, and that all of them were conjured up by "man" for any number of reasons. I used to be more of a passive humanist, but I've watched relgious ideologies gain too much influence in government and politics. IMO you should believe what you want (so long as you are not victimizing anyone); BUT, recognize your beliefs as "yours", and not something that should be legislated for everyone to follow – that's where I, and many non-believers start to push back.
Agreed.
disagree. if those believes were completely private, i would agree. but they affect other people in public policy, and how people are treated in general.
j – he said flat out 'not to be legislated' for others to follow.
"When atheists organize to serve the poor and needy of the world, they will be taken more seriously." I am no t a atheist....nor do I believe in organized religion that man has created to rule the world......that said, you can serve the poor and the needy....but don't forget to keep molesting those children....."Go Catholic"
If atheists molest as many children as Catholic priests, I will continue to doubt their faith in God.
Until atheists molest as many children as Catholic priests, I will continue to doubt their faith in God.
I'm a Christian.. did you know catholic church is part of Christianity.. if you disagreed.. sadly you're wrong.. also Catholic Church shouldn't put Virgin Mary as idol which God doesn't like it.. Jesus called virgin mary, "woman" not mother.. also you shouldn't worship pope as well he is not a prophet or a light of the world.. only WE the christians are light of the world who helps and gospels others
what a stupid a$$ argument.. if the athiest organize themselves under ANY banner, they would become just another organized religion with their own beliefs and doctrines. To be an atheist is not to be flocked under such banner. Get your facts straight and TRYYY to learn something before you argue against it.
Come on, people. Religion needs to DIE!
Cosmic Tinkerbell and the talking snake is sooooooooooo 20th Century
my god is better than your god
sounds like American Atheist are desperately!!! wow what an Attention Wh.ore!
Desperately what?
to bash / to against Christianity.. its why they are desperately! and quit asking me what? you make yourself look like you know nothing... you're smart to figure it out!
@JoeyE,
Have you seen how many "Christian" billboards there are? If you want to talk about desperate...
You're barely making sense – are you having some kind of seizure?
I don't see any christianity billboards at my city.. nothing at all.. why would we do that? Billboard is useless, trust me
your comment, Sam, is really making no sense.. I only speak for my opinion of that billboard.. you just making yourself a fool.
Joey, there are ads for christianty and Jesus on the side of damn near every bus in (in, not at) the city I live in. It's all about who dishes out the most $ for advertising.
Attention whore.
"To desperately"? Are you sure you don't mean, too desperate? lol
Thanks JoeyE. With idiot christards like you, we atheists don't have to lift a finger to make religion look stupid.
Wow, they are just as angry as a lot of born-again Christians!
Dudes, this isn't convincing me to join your camp either. Too much anger.
Anger creates change.
Change is coming.
Shoe is on the other foot now. It's payback time
William, sure does seem that the tide is turning, and that would be great news. We can cause change by speaking out about the evils and falsehoods of religion. Please keep up the good work.
Sue
You still haven't told me if you're single !! 🙂
opinions about religions, both for and against, are unprovable . Believe what you will and allow the same courtesy to all others
Lolita, that is false. For example, we actually can disprove (and have disproven) the claims of Christianity for the characteristics of its deity. They are contradictory, and therefore cannot be true. There are also many other sound reasons for dismissing Christianity and other religions as bunkum.
Well, of course. Right up until a particular faith decides the entire country must live by their 'moral' compass, and starts trying to pass legislation.
Oops.
Sue what you say is still just an opinion Sam, when an ideology is being forced on any other, it is not allowing the courtesy that I mentioned. I don't claim that what I opine is happening, only that it should.
Uh no. Modern molecular biology, chemistry, physics, and geology have proven christianity to be wrong about any number of claims.
Science will ultimately end religion.
No, Lolita, what I said is not "just an opinion". Either present a countering argument, or your statement holds no weight.
And stuff your request for "courtesy" you know where, when you rudely dismiss my post that way, you ignorant beotch.
I still like this quote.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts
One of the great quotes.
That is awesome! Had not seen that quote before, but it resonates perfectly with me.
I'm an atheist and I'd agree that the people who did the billboards are petty and vindictive.
Agreed. They are so self-righteous and intolerant, you'd think they were Christians. That's the ultimate victory for Christians, they have caused those they hate to return the favor and by doing so, they are now no better than the most bigoted Christian.
I'm sorry but you are dead wrong. Christians don't hate. We don't put up billboards like that one. We are taught to love people but hate sin,all kinds of sin, just as Jesus did. Sin in ourselves as well.
"We're taught to love people and hate sin! And that means putting up legislation that means those sinners can't marry!"
The Big Lie as practiced by the contemporary faux Christian – "Love the sinner, hate the sin". Interesting that it's a concept that they first stole from Gandhi, and then corrupted it by spreading hatred, ignorance, and bigotry.
Christians are human, all humans have hate so don't lie.
I am an outsider looking in and it is both sad and humorous. I am a Pagan Priest, and for those of you that don't know Paganism, it is a religion that embraces science but knows that our existence goes way beyond the realities that we can see, touch, smell and hear. Most of the Atheist that I know are not so much that they don't believe in a "God" as much as they call themselves Atheist when in fact they are really "Not Christian, Not Muslim, Not Jewish, etc..
Like a said if you are an outsider looking in, it is obvious that this is all fear driven. Christianity promotes love, but also has that BIG "if you don't agree then the worst that can happen will happen to you". And some self-proclaimed Atheist are afraid of people doing something in the name of "God" against them. Let's face it Christianity doesn't have be best track record for tolerance of different beliefs for the past 1500 years.
Atheist have gone on the offensive here, so I will address that. By demonizing (pun intended) Christianity, Islam etc. you are doing exactly what you are accusing them of doing. Lack of tolerance on both sides are showing what lack of tolerance always show, fear.
And those of you that would say "I don't realize what the Christian, Islam, etc.. has done to you free thinkers". I would say are you KIDDING? There was active genocide against us for 1000 years. Just ask the natives of North, Central & South Americains (all Pagan) the witch hunts, the inquisition. And if I may speak for Pagans here, just because let's say SOME Christians have done some bad things that does not mean Christianity is at fault. You know what you are saying the other side is doing. The question is rather you believe there is a "God" or you don't, do you want your actions to be defined by fear?
And me just saying this to the Atheist that are now mad at me. If you think "this is all there is". Read a Quantum Physics book, Quantum Mechanics (the math that has NEVER been wrong) states without question that "this is all there is", is impossible. It is in fact that not only can there be forces, reality, "God", a greater consciousness that exists. It states that there HAS to be one. What do you think "String Theory" is all about?
Oynaq, I think you are just spewing with no understanding. Try explaining "String Theory" to us; I have some expertise in it, and I think you haven't got a clue about it.
The type of Athesit who posts on these threads is a narrow minded dogmatist with an agenda.
Personally I'm happy the atheists of this particular organization have put up these billboards.
They have demonstrated ignorance, arrogance (which normally grows from ignorance), a stupendous lack of connection to humans in general all while attempting to call themselves reasonable.
This is the perfect picture of irrational hatred and the pot searching for the kettle.
Jim, Bob, etc: every movement, philosophy and religion has its extremists. The next time a good christian goes on a shooting rampage, are you going to be in here yelling about how all chrisitians are like that? Of course not.
Hay Bob: String Theory or "M Theory" was started to try to explain why gravity is such a work force compared to the other three forces. The relationship that gravity has in our space time does not make sense and that it has to come from or influenced by something out side our space time. That things such as gravity, dark matter, dark energy, quantum entanglement can't exist in our physical reality and has to come from other levels of existence. You know where God, our soul, are being could also exist, the fact is we don't know and who are we to say that we know other levels of reality exist, but there can be no God. And Bob if You knew what String Theory really meant you would be accepting the Nobel Prize and not here.
Thanks for proving Bob right: You don't know jack about String Theory. Witten would laugh in your face.
String Theory is trying to describe "the quantum theory of gravity" and it states that it has to come from beyond our own space time. Hence the multiple dimensions. Read a book and maybe your IQ will rise higher than a respectable earthquake.
The funny thing is, the Billboard looks like it was designed by Scientologists. LOL
I love the Atom as the Atheist religious symbol.
A true symbol of their faith and belief....
"A true symbol ..."
because it's real?
"Matter" is nothing more than vacuum fluctuations on the Quantum level with no more "reality" than the Tooth Fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
""Matter" is nothing more than vacuum fluctuations on the Quantum level with no more "reality" than the Tooth Fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster."
yet it is a solid as the earth under your feet.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” – M. Gandhi
Not all of them, just a few bad apples that get all the press.
A FEW bad apples? Wow. Just, wow
I am voting Atheist this year!!! Castro, Kim Jung Ill, the junta that runs China, Stalin, Mao...Atheists have such a wonderful track record when excercising control and implementing "humanism"
None of those people were humanists.
Nice try. Hitler was a baptized Roman Catholic. Stalin was a Jesuit who as a teenager was accepted by a seminary to begin training for the priesthood.
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." – Adolf Hitler
That would be Marxism, which is what Obama is gunning for!!!
Also, none of them are natural born citizens.
Atheism is a lack of belief, not a philosophy.
Humanism is a philosophy.
Most of those you listed were Communists, or variants thereof, and committed their acts in the name of state or themselves.
“The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, July 22, 1933
Take a little pride in one of your own.
Hitler was a creature of Nietzsche. He used Christianity as a tool. Nothing more. He was the Nietzschean Superman.
Post by 'BOB' is an instance of the No True Scotsmen fallacy.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
Lets stop all this bickering and burn some witches.
"He used Christianity as a tool."
Bob,
Why do you think he was able to do that so easily? Because the belief system has no varifiable foundation and so it is a perfect system for control and propaganda...
WOW!!
Hitler was baptized as a baby and therefore couldn't and wasn't an atheist? What stupendous leap of stupidity!
Stalin went to a Jesuit school so when he declared religion to be the enemy and tried to eliminate religion, he wasn't REALLY an atheist?
Is that what you so-called "rational" atheists think? That is a complete and utter lack of reason.
Please shut up until you become more than a small child with a keyboard. You're giving atheists a bad name.
@fallacy:
Therefore everyone who calls himself a Christian IS a Christian. You become a Christian simply by calling yourself one.
Ludicrious.
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” – Adolf Hitler in a letter to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941
Bob...you're just spouting nonsense to get attention. It's boring.
"Therefore everyone who calls himself a Christian IS a Christian. You become a Christian simply by calling yourself one.
Ludicrious." Of course not. You are a Christian if you ARE a Christian.
Being christian is completely arbitrary so yes, you are a christian if you clam to be one. There is no standard definition.
How should we tell a true christian? Do they float?
If I call myself a Catholic but practice Daoism, I am a Catholic?
If I proclaim to be a follower of Gandhi but practice genocide, I am really a follower of Gandhi right?
If I'm an atheist but plan my life around the rituals of say Shia Islam and say the prayers and kill the non-believers, am I still an atheist?
The answer to all three is no. The same is true with Hitler.
Common sense seems to be in short supply around the "rational" atheists on he board here.
Jim, he wasn't an atheist, either. So the same holds true for you.
True scotsman fallacy Jim-bo.. never worked for the last 20 centuries..
where do you draw the line?
So people calling themselves christian aren't christians then? So how do you get to be a christian, can't call yourself one, can't just be baptized one, can't attend a jesuit school just for christians. Is there a special committee that gets to vote if you are a christian or not?
The only thing ludicrous is people who would call themselves christian and not be a christian.
Jim, I see, so if you call yourself a christian but do "not-so-christian" like stuff(AKA SIN) then you are NOT a christian right?
Is that how it is, so do you call yourself a christian Jim, do you still SIN Jim?