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First on CNN: Atheist group targets presidential candidates' faith with billboards
A billboard criticizing Christianity is going up in Charlotte, North Carolina, host city of the upcoming Democratic National Convention.
August 13th, 2012
10:03 AM ET

First on CNN: Atheist group targets presidential candidates' faith with billboards

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) - A prominent atheist group is using next month's Democratic National Convention to take aim at the presidential candidates' religion, putting up billboards targeting Mormonism and Christianity in Charlotte, North Carolina.

“Our political system is rife with religion and it depends too much on religion and not enough on substance," said David Silverman, president of American Atheists, sponsor of the ads.

"Religion is silly and religion has components that are inherently divisive. … There is no place for any of that in the political system,” he said.

The billboards go up Monday in Charlotte and will stay up for a month at a cost of roughly $15,000. The Democratic convention runs September 3-6.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

The billboard targeting Christianity features an image of Jesus Christ on toast and this description of the faith: "Sadistic God; Useless Savior, 30,000+ Versions of ‘Truth,’ Promotes Hates, Calls it ‘Love.’ ”

The billboard targeting Mormonism lambastes - and, Mormons would say, distorts - specific Mormon doctrines: "God is a Space Alien, Baptizes Dead People, Big Money, Big Bigotry.”

The Mormon billboard features a man in white underwear, a reference to special Mormon garments.

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Both billboards feature the line "Atheism: Simply Reasonable."

American Atheists had wanted to put the anti-Mormon billboard in Tampa, Florida, to coincide with the Republican National Convention there later this month. Presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney is a Mormon. When no billboard company in the city would lease the group space for such a sign, Silverman said the organization decided to focus solely on the Democrats in Charlotte.

“Presidential conventions are for ideas, not ideology - platforms, not platitudes," Silverman said. "If a person believes stupid things, we have every right to question his or her judgment, and that directly impacts how the nonreligious voter votes.”

CNN Belief Blog: Atheist leader hopes to mobilize closeted nonbelievers

Some religious leaders said the billboards showed a misunderstanding of how faith works.

"That billboard makes the most common high-school error when it comes to atheism," wrote the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author, in an e-mail to CNN. "It's not arguing against the existence of God, but against religion. The American Atheists need to go back to school on this one."

Martin also questioned the language used on the billboard: "And as for 'promoting hate' they're doing a bang-up job themselves with that billboard."

Terryl Givens, a Mormon professor at the University of Richmond, called American Atheists "petty and vindictive."

“If this example of adolescent silliness is what atheists mean by being reasonable, then neither Mormons nor other Christians have much to worry about," he said of the billboards. "When atheists organize to serve the poor and needy of the world, they will be taken more seriously."

CNN Belief Blog: Unbelieving preachers 'come out' as atheists

It's not the first time the American Atheists group has released in-your-face billboards. Earlier this year, the group put up two billboards in heavily Muslim and Jewish enclaves in New Jersey and New York bearing messages in Arabic and Hebrew.

“You know it’s a myth … and you have a choice,” the billboards said. At the time, Silverman said the signs were intended to reach atheists in Muslim and Jewish areas who may feel isolated because they are surrounded by believers.

In addition to the billboards, Silverman said his group plans to stage protests at both conventions.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: 2012 Election • Atheism • Barack Obama • Christianity • Mitt Romney • Mormonism • Politics

soundoff (7,477 Responses)
  1. Anton

    I worship Satan, the only true lover of mankind. He defied the jealous demon who ruled over the garden in order to help humanity.

    August 13, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • mizo boy

      But God is Stronger and powerful than Stan in everywhere ... look at the african where/who people worship the spirit..but christian ministries are went to them, now they knew God is more powerful than evil spirits. Jesus is God.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      mizo....repeating a story don't make it true.

      August 14, 2012 at 5:12 am |
  2. mizo boy

    Atheism is sick. trust me that God guided the people who came from europe to discovered the America. they all were christians. look at now the Bible says the truth Satan is trying to make people crazy before Jesus' second coming.

    August 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • Bob

      Why should we trust you, miso soup kitchen boy? You can't provide any proof.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • David

      Make people crazy? Looks like he already got to you.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So, boy, how did god feel about the indigenous people who were slaughtered by the Spaniards?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:44 pm |
    • ArthurP

      The Bible is the work of the Devil.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
    • Ting

      'God guided the people who came from europe to discovered the America. they all were christians.'

      Killing Native Americans was actually very Christian of them.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      Who is this Satan you mentioned? Oh...right...another of your made up characters. Atter all you can't have an all good supernatural being without an all evil nemesis. Yin and Yang...very old concept.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • mizo boy

      Read the Bible people .. if you want to know the truth. and read American History about how they believe the bible and how they trust God..so God blessed the land. but now so many people of atheists are involed in politic. God stops his blessing on the land.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
    • sam stone

      atheism is sick? you are a simpleton little fvck, aren't you.....boy?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      OK, no point in picking on the mentally challenged.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • sam stone

      boy, the god you describe is a petty little punk.

      why should we read the bible when it appears that it (if you actually have it) turns you into a blathering moron?

      August 13, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • mizo boy

      i think so that atheism is sick..they are like a child to me. and bad people to me. telling dirty words all time. but i dont hate them. im just saying how i feel on them. because they dont care about how God had showed his miracles on earth in history. they think that religion is a burden for life.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • kindless

      Oh mizo boy, you just misled and educated incorrectly, that's all, hon. the christians that came over from europe were trying to get away from a lot of things. And they were too primitive to free themselves from religion, but they knew the country needed to be founded on freedom and not religion, so they got that part right. but don't feel bad, because you are not alone. there are a lot of people who can't reason yet with the full potential of their minds, so they still need these make-believe characters from eons ago. You'll get there. Just sit back, have some tea, and read a lot. And don't read the bible so much, unless you're trying to become a lawyer. Cause if you really knew what went into it, you'd realize that bible is like the biggest, most ear-marked congressional bill there ever was.

      heavenSnot RIF

      August 13, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • Mizo Boy

      Kindless,
      You are right somehow. but the reason why they left the europe is religions problem. they are all christian, not Catholic. in that time the Roman Catholics rules the europe both of political and religion. thats why they wanted the freedom. and you can read the history about how they hated catholics 1600s to 1920s. American people hated catholics till 1900s. i'll give you to read how they did on a catholic priest when they found in America.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • Mizo boy

      Read this articles. the truth is America was a protestant country for the first time. but when Darwin's theory came up more of the atheists were born.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States

      August 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • kindless

      Well true the protestants hated the catholics, mizo boy. But, the problem is, they still accepted way too much of the basics of the early church – not all the same weird things that catholicism still has, but a lot of the junk that is just unfounded. You could say they didn't have a political hand, like a lobbyist, in putting together the bible and making claims to support it like the early catholic church did. For instance, we don't any more reason to believe in things that self-proclaimed "apostle" Paul wrote, which was a good chunk of the NT, as we do of things Joseph Smith wrote, yet look how much of a cult many people view Mormonism is.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
  3. Sorangel Garcia

    I used to not believe in any God, but I decided to give him a chance for a better life. He has given joy that I have never felt before and the character that i needed to confront any situation. No one is forced to believe on something they don't want. God can't be forced into anyones life he has given us the free will to choose him or not. All I know is that God feed me from my troubles through Jesus Christ. 🙂

    August 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • Science

      Ever hear of the inquisition. Too bad your people don't all have the same mindset

      August 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • sam stone

      good for you, sorangel. i am an athiest leaning agnostic, but i feel whatever gives you relief is good.

      August 14, 2012 at 5:17 am |
  4. Reason In Religion

    After reading this comment board, it's clear that all of these non-believers are missing something here: you don't understand what you're not believing. Half of the things put on here about Christianity, etc. are almost completely wrong. And for just one second, I'd like to be the one to hold everyone to a double-standard; religion is polarizing, yes; it was really bad a long time ago, yes. But isn't this the same thing? And this time, it's not the Catholics and Lutherans and Episcopalians starting anything–it's the atheists! I don't have a problem if you don't believe; frankly, I can't blame you for not believing. But hold yourself to the Reason that you claim to have, because right now, it's not there. These billboards are absolutely vindictive and counter-intuitive to what the atheist claims to be. ...

    God Bless You.

    August 13, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Observer

      If your religion is making your life better, then don't use it to make someone's life worse.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • truth be told

      Nothing is worse than eternal death.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Life with you certainly would be, TuBeTop.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • Prayer changed my oil. Alleluia, amen.

      If god want to bless someone, the creator of 600 se'xtillion stars needs no advice from the likes of you.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • AGuest9

      "Eternal death" – that would be like what you knew before you were born?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • truth be told

      Before you were born you only had the knowledge of your creator.You did not preexist you had a beginning.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • Bob

      RiR, re "Half of the things put on here about Christianity, etc. are almost completely wrong. ": Present some proof, or withdraw your (thus far unsupported) assertions, you coward.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • ArthurP

      truth be told

      Nothing is worse than eternal death.

      ================

      Except of course eternal life in heaven with a bunch of religious nut jobs.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      "After reading this comment board, it's clear that all of these non-believers are missing something here: you don't understand what you're not believing"

      There isn't any consensus among believers what they believe. It's almost like everyone has their own individual religion suited to them perfectly. It's not that we don't understand, it's that you can't get a clear message across. What finally does emerge out of the chaos is just a mishmash of contradictory, nonsensical baloney.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @RIR,

      You say: "These billboards are absolutely vindictive and counter-intuitive to what the atheist claims to be. ..."

      "Counter-intutive?" No, but I certainly agree they are unhelpful. They are provocative and consequently make people (like yourself) defensive.

      "Absoutely vindictive?": A mean-spirited cheap shot, yes, I would say so. "Absolutely vindictive?" No. I don't see them as vindictive of anything and I don't see them as being 'absolutely' anything.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Nothing is worse than eternal death."

      Except maybe eternal life

      August 14, 2012 at 5:19 am |
  5. ArthurP

    truth be told

    They unborn and the children would have become progressively worse than their evil parents. The guilt was several hundred years in the making. Plus it serves as a warning to future lawbreakers who would challenge the eternal judge.

    =================

    There is no way to know this unless it was all preordained by God's plan. In which case he set up this so he would have an excuse to kill all those people.

    August 13, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • truth be told

      spoken as one who does not have a clue as to who God is. The guilt is yours you weill pay for it now and forevermore ubnless you turn to Gods grace.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Booga, booga, booga!

      August 13, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
    • ArthurP

      truth be told

      'Gods grace'

      Based on your previous statement that is one really huge oxymoronic statement.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • truth be told

      Keep that thought in mind when you are tossed into the lake of fire. Remember to tell the judge how "unfair" it is.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You tell him. He's your demon. And it's your hell. You burn in it, you sack.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
    • Jen

      The funniest thing is that by tbt's own definition, he/she is going to h-ll. People that take pleasure out of thinking of others going to a pit of fire are definitely not going to heaven.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • truth be told

      Never happen Tom Tom, Jesus is my Savior. Sorry about you though.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Of course it will, TuBeTop. Jesus hates liars. He hates what you do here and in your life.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      When are you going to start volunteering at an abortion clinic, TuBeTop? You'll be doing god's chores for him.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm |
    • truth be told

      There is no pleasure in seeing the condemned. If that number can be reduced it is much better. Do not be deceived your sin will find you out, do not enter Gods Holy presence without the protection of the Savior He has provided.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      TuBe Top=Carrie's Mom.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • truth be told

      And who's mom would you be if you hadn't murdered ?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, so you're saying that you imagine I had an abortion? Ahahhhahhah!

      You are stunningly stupid. Never had one. Never sought one.

      Wanna try again for a consolation prize, you brainless wart?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
    • Jen

      Oh please tbt, it's clear that picturing others in that pit of fire is the only thing that gets you through your miserable and pathetic life. You get off on it!

      August 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • psst's understudy

      Hint: "who's"= who is

      August 13, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You hit that on the head, Jen. TBT talks about the tortures that await everyone it hates.

      What do you bet the creep tears the wings off flies for fun?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
  6. Observer

    truth be told,

    The Bible NEVER mentions abortion. It actually is a better source to argue support for abortion than against it. Read it sometime.

    August 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It appears that TBT is actually quite in favor of abortion, regardless of the means.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • truth be told

      The filth of a Tom Tom is not to be reasoned with. Abortion is a crime against God.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How can that be when god committed mass abortion, TuBeTop?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Observer

      truth be told,

      "Abortion is a crime against God."

      That's not what the Bible says. You just MADE IT UP.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      God is the world's biggest abortionist.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • truth be told

      The judge has the right to pass sentence. Execution is not murder nor is it abortion.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So god does kill fetuses? That's abortion by any other name.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • Observer

      truth be told,

      INTENTIONALLY killing fetuses is not abortion?

      C'mon. Get serious. Get a dictionary. Get into the REAL world.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm |
    • ArthurP

      @truth be told:

      About making up things not in the Bible:

      I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. (Revelation 22:18)

      August 13, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Might does not make right.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
  7. CommonSense

    How about... Just hear me out here; I promise it won't take long... We all just agree to disagree? Eh?

    August 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      I don't have 'faith' that Christianity is capable of agreeing to disagree, their history shows otherwise.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
  8. Tired of Religion Perverting the World

    Well, it's official. Atheism is officially as corrupt as religion.

    August 13, 2012 at 8:06 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Not even close.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
  9. Xamsa squash

    They are doing exactly what annoys me about religious people; they only believe in (something or nothing)"God" but still need to inform me of the "absolute truth" which is their religion.

    August 13, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • David

      How is refusing to believe in something due to lack of evidence a religion?

      August 13, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Where do you see an admonishment to follow the atheist's version of "absolute truth?" I'm an atheist, and I have no idea what "absolute truth" we're supposed to believe and evangelize. lol

      August 13, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • Xamsa squash

      The fact that they need to tell people from a poster is kind of stuffing it down my throat equally (well almost) to those needing to preach me religion.
      And I don't even believe in Santa

      August 13, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
  10. Young Autistic Man

    Most Christian would find "Christians" who believed they see faces of Jesus on toast to be mentally insane. Anyway, as a Christian, I hate image of a white European "Jesus" with long hair. Jesus was a non-white Jew.

    August 13, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • Xamsa squash

      I respect that notion...

      August 13, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
  11. Prayer changed my oil. Alleluia, amen.

    I personally unbaptized every dead person on the planet. We had a ceremony last weekend at the lake. So never mind. If you wish baptism, you will have to have it done over. For now, it's undone.

    Carry on. 👿

    August 13, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
  12. Tony in SD

    I do not "believe" in god, but a Billboard like this is, IMHO, quite immature and counterproductive. It is condescending in the extreme, not just to the "believers" it attempts to mock, but to the audience it seeks to reach. It does not possess wit. I would be ashamed to be associated with the American Atheist organization, although as someone too busy to even give "god" a second thought in 99.99% of my life, I find organizations like this somewhat baffling to begin with.

    August 13, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • David

      Well, you did care enough to take the time to comment.

      I wonder, do you stop to express your feelings every time you see a "Repent or go to hell" sign?

      August 13, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      I see your point, Tony, but I think you fail to see the point of the American Atheists. It's called "backlash." Millions of people were duped throughout their childhood and young adult years with christianity or mormonism or whatever. Try to understand their position a little more.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
  13. Leo

    Hawaii, Why can't you provide a specific verse where the bible has something that you feel is hate, yet the bible calls it love. Is Gods judgement on evil hate? Is our Judicial system performing hate when they sentence a murderer to death? or is it justice?

    August 13, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • sam

      What evil are we talking about, here? Sin? There's no way you want to start that conversation.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • David

      Condemning innocent people to hell because some ancient ancestor ate a fruit is justice?

      Get real.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • sam

      I say we outlaw apples. They're to blame.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      I don't want "love" from a being who builds and maintains a pit of eternal torture for intelligent beings he created. You christards can keep it.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • Leo

      I find it interesting that Atheist always read the Bible with blinders on, for the scriptures are clear that God provides salvation as a free gift to all who will believe in Jesus the Messiah promised and prophesied 400+ years before he came. He paid for the sins of the world, and he will judge all men according to their deeds. But man wants to do his own thing and in his arrogance against his creator he is the one that judges God and finds him unworthy, and then complains about God judging him.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • David

      Nope, I'm not worried about God judging me, anymore than I am concerned how Santa Claus feels about my actions.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Leo,

      It's not free if something is expected in return. I would not punish my worst enemy for eternity. Your god is immoral, and far from perfect.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Leo

      David, sure you are, that is why you claim innocence. You would not discuss Santa to anyone, but deep inside you all know there is a God, but you want to live your life the way you want.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • Leo

      No Truth, What is expected in return? There is nothing but faith that is required.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Leo,

      Faith is pretending to know something you don't know. I consider that a large price. If that god truly wants me to believe he should give verifiable proof. I don't just throw around blind faith, otherwise I would be prone to believe just about anything.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • Leo

      No Truth, You claim you would not send your worst enemy to hell, yet you work for your master satan who has blinded your eyes, and you are just doing his work dragging people down with yourself. It is your choice, it is your work, and you can't blaim anyone but yourself. You can turn around though while there is still time.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • Leo

      No Truth, the evidence of God is all around you yet your refuse to admit it. You have faith that life came form non life or Abiogenesis, yet that is blind faith. There is no proof of life coming from non-life, that is why man is so desparate to find life somewhere else.

      Do you really have faith that the Human eye and the most complex object in the known universe the human brain just happen without purpose? Conscience, reasoning, fealings, etc. by chance?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Leo,

      Your dogma is absurd, including your devil. You have no rational reason to refute what I said so your response is to claim I work for a devil that does not exist. You are bearing false witness and according to you beliefs you deserve to smoke a turd in hell.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      God wouldn't have to save me if he weren't condemning me. I don't want "salvation" from a god disgusting enough to build and maintain an eternal pit of torture. It has nothing to do with him "saving me," and it has everything to do with his desp.icable character.

      Do you look at it as "salvation" when the guy robbing your wallet tells you he's "save you" from his bullet if you just hand him your wallet?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Leo

      So the most you have is an argument from ignorance. How boring.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Leo,

      I don't have faith about any of that. The answer is "I don't know". I don't know doesn't me,an "god did it". And certainly not your immoral god.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • fred

      No Truth, Just Claims
      Sorry but you have no basis to call God immoral. If you are speaking about the God of Abraham you must stay within the context and understanding those who “knew” (or that made up myth etc. for non believers)and wrote about that God. They found God to be perfect goodness and you have no rational cause to say otherwise. At best, you should accept the visual of those who describe their vision as theirs. You do not know the language or custom of that day or the peoples.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Fred,

      I do have a basis for calling him immoral. First he is a myth, a real god would know that slavery is wrong and killing innocent people including children is wrong. Saying I have to think about biblical morality in terms of what people considered moral at the time just proves the god of Abraham is a myth.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @NTJC

      Don't forget, the god of the bible is unchanging, unless it helps with an argument, then he can change. And he's jealous and vengeful, unless he needs to be all loving in a certain argument. Isn't having a Big Book of Multiple Choice (AKA the bible) wonderful when it comes to debating?

      August 13, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      HG,

      Absolutely and I think it's funny that the same people who claim objective morals turn around and push for moral relativism where their bible is concerned.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Ahhh double standards, the hallmark of religion.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • fred

      No Truth, Just Claims
      “I do have a basis for calling him immoral.”
      =>None, you can call your made up version immoral but not the God of Abraham.
      “First he is a myth”
      =>myth or real does not change who God is according to the Hebrew and their written accounting of their God.
      “ a real god would know that slavery is wrong “
      =>The Hebrew God according to their text warned them that they were slaves in Egypt and they should never mistreat another slave in such manner.
      “killing innocent people including children is wrong.”
      =>thou shalt not kill, lover your enemy etc. is the clear picture of God. As to the Amalekites, Moabites and perhaps the flood story there is specific cleansing of wicked. Translation is of issue in the Hebrew text however, the Creator will remove those who will not or have no place in the new heaven and earth. What you call killing in fact keeps the innocent ones from eternal torment to the extent they are not held accountable for what they did not know. Had the survived and learned of God then rejected God the consequence would be severe.
      “Saying I have to think about biblical morality in terms of what people considered moral at the time just proves the god of Abraham is a myth.”
      =>the God of Abraham always worked with people exactly where they were in their state of development. It is a real story a real accounting from the hands of people who were there. I am not saying slavery was moral or killing children was moral. When the creator (keeping in context) determines it is best that a child created would be better off never to have existed that is the creators right. According to these writings (and current scientific opinion) God (or causation) exists outside of this space and time. God would know what Stalin the atheist was going to do and could have blotted out his mother. Now we can argue the morality of that decision but not the morality of the God as expressed by the Hebrews 3,400 years ago.

      August 13, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Fred,

      I did not make up the bible or any of the r.a.p.e, incest, child killing, slavery that is in it.

      August 14, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • No Truth, Just Claims

      Fred you have rationalized away your morality.

      August 14, 2012 at 12:03 am |
    • fred

      No Truth, Just Claims
      You and I cannot resolve what is good if we cannot mutually agree upon an authority that we both agree has higher authority. This is the problem with establishing what is good. I see Gods plan (as revealed regardless if true or not) as good because it provides a way into the new heaven and the new earth where God will wipe away every tear (not just some but every tear for all of time). Now, you want to call that plan immoral? We must limit ourselves to the plan as revealed and there is no way you could call that plan immoral.
      What you have done is pull out of context 18 terrible acts out of over 31,000 verses and shout God is immoral. If you consider that logical and rational then there is little hope because the Bible content is not your issue it is something much bigger. To make your claim that God is immoral is to say your opinion (illogical as it is)is superior to that of God (if there is a God).
      The Hebrews 3,400 years ago recorded in scripture their God that was bringing them through to the Promised Land. Their God delivered them into the land, their God brought them out of brutal slavery in Egypt, carried Noah to dry land over the flood of wickedness and out of slavery again under the Babylonians. Their redeemer and savior is good as their story goes yet the chosen people were bad as their story goes. You cannot in 2012 say their savior was immoral and the people were good because that would be based on your plan. Your plan does not apply and remains irrelevant to their story.

      August 14, 2012 at 1:40 am |
  14. truth be told

    Atheists have murdered more people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries.

    August 13, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • sam

      Wrong. Old argument. Next?

      August 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • David

      Your God allows babies to be rap.ed, tortured an murdered. And you then justify it and give him a free pass, even though he is all-powerful and could protect them.

      A women who leaves her child in a car is a bad mother, but that sadistic, cruel monster that you worship is off-the-hook.

      Nice.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • just sayin

      Right and historically accurate. God bless

      August 13, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • just sayin

      That was in reply to David. God Bless

      August 13, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • Observer

      Biggest killer ever: God.

      The Bible says that at one time God torturously murdered every pregnant woman, child, baby and fetus on the face of the earth.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • BS

      beeheeeh.... BS!

      August 13, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • One one

      "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately." Numbers 31:17

      "utterly destroy all that they have, and don't spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant and nursing baby, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'" 1sam15:3

      Ooops, I forgot, it's ok when god does it, he has his reasons. Therefore, the morality of killing people is relative bc sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's not ok.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • truth be told

      Judgement and execution are not murder. The guilty pay for their crimes.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • just sayin

      Right and historically accurate truth be told. God bless

      August 13, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • Observer

      truth be told

      "Judgement and execution are not murder. The guilty pay for their crimes."

      Please get serious. What did children, babies, and fetuses do to be "executed"? Nonsense. It was cold-blooded murder.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • truth be told

      Nope it was judgement and deserved punishment for the sins and crimes of the entire society than spanned several hundred years of rejecting Gods grace. Grace being unmerited favor allowing for the possibility of divine pardon. Make no mistake about it, justice was served.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • Observer

      truth be told,

      What did the fetuses and babies do? Still NO ANSWER. Are you claiming that the "God of love" murdered them because of crimes commited by someone else?

      Get serious.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • ArthurP

      Unlike God, the worlds civilized countries do not have nor support the death penalty. Civilized Man considers it barbaric.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, then TBT, how do you know that your blood-thirsty god isn't using abortion to 'punish' all of society now?

      Why not? How is it any different?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • LtMacGowan

      What atheists? I know you don't mean Hitler seeing how he was a choir boy for years and gave serious contemplation to becoming a priest. I know you don't mean Stalin. The man actually was at the Georgian Orthodox seminary for some time. What his truth beliefs are are ambiguous at best. I mean during the Nazi invasion (btw who all had "Gott mit uns" on the back side of their buckles which means God is with us) he reopened the churches and encouraged the people to pray but lets give you that one and the 20 million he killed. That still doesnt come close to what Christians, Muslims, and so on have killed in the last 2,000 or so odd years or if you count god he supposedly tried to commit genocide and murdered the first born son of everyone in Egypt.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • truth be told

      They unborn and the children would have become progressively worse than their evil parents. The guilt was several hundred years in the making. Plus it serves as a warning to future lawbreakers who would challenge the eternal judge.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, then, TBT, you should be completely in favor of abortion on demand without any restrictions whatsoever. After all, you god is.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • truth be told

      Abortion like baal worship is an invention of man not of God. Rejecting the most precious gift of God.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Observer

      truth be told,

      "They unborn and the children would have become progressively worse than their evil parents"

      So the lives of children are already set before they are born. No freedom of choice there.

      You really haven't thought this through at all.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How do you know god isn't working through abortion doctors? After all, what would be the difference, TBT?

      Why shouldn't your god employ humans to carry out the killing of all children and fetuses? Did you think he was going to dirty his hands? When was the last time you saw him do a damn thing, you moronic twerp?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Jen

      'the most precious gift' yet all of those aborted babies are evil???? Well that makes sense.....

      August 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • truth be told

      We are all under a death penalty. If you think you will avoid the penalty for sin then let those children of the wicked generations be a warning to you, if those were not spared you do not stand a chance. God has provided a way to be pardoned from eternal death, God is the eternal judge, not you whether you like it or not or whether you understand it or not.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So then you agree that god is the biggest abortionist of all, TBT?

      So you approve of abortion, right? As long as your god gets to choose who to abort?

      Good to know.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Jen

      Me and my unborn baby are shaking in our boots tbt....really...we are....thanks for the warning....now go put your tinfoil hat back on....

      August 13, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Reason In Religion

      Old Testament! Old! Christianity focusses on what Christ said, and Christ said that the New Testament is the way to go; only reason that the Old Testament is in the BIble is because it's a background for the New Testament, which talks of a loving and forgiving God. You're picking and choosing your bible verses; there's a whole lot more to say the opposite.

      And why is God to blame for the violence of people? A good father doesn't press himself on his son–he picks him up when he falls, which is what he tries to do. But if the Son just hits him in the face, then what's he more to do?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Observer

      Reason In Religion

      "Old Testament! Old! Christianity focusses on what Christ said"

      False. Christians assure us that that world is going to pieces because we don't put the Ten Commandments in school and we must pick on gays because of what the OLD Testament said.

      Get serious.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
    • save the world and slap some sense into a christard today!

      LtMacGowan wrote amongst other things:

      .."That still doesnt come close to what Christians, Muslims, and so on have killed in the last 2,000 or so . . ."

      Absolutely, and it is much more important that we focus on systematic attrocities attributable to religion (such as the various inquisitions) rather than the effects, even if horribly large, from a few nutjob rulers. This is because the ideas that led to the validation of things like the inquisitions still exist in catholicism and other religions.

      August 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
  15. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    August 13, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Observer

      Keep hiding.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • just sayin

      Like God, hiding in plain sight and yet hidden from idiots that think they are atheists. God bless

      August 13, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Observer

      @just sayiin,

      If Atheism REALLY believed their own spam, they'd answer questions. Does any Christian think God is impressed by anyone afraid to answer questions about their faith. Get real.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • just sayin

      You have no question. God bless

      August 13, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • Observer

      @just sayin,

      Does any Christian think God is impressed by anyone afraid to answer questions about their faith? Yes or no?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
    • just sayin

      You still have no question. God bless

      August 13, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You still have no answer, justsayin.

      There. I fixed it for you.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • just sayin

      Jesus is the answer, fix just got tossed in the toilet. God bless

      August 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You would certainly be quite familiar with what is in your toilet, just sh!ttin.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • Observer

      @just sayin,

      Does any Christian think God is impressed by anyone afraid to answer questions about their faith? Yes or no?

      Are you still completely STUMPED?

      August 13, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • kindless

      Oh my, dear, prayer is just a time-sucker-upper. You just need some chamomile tea and some peaceful meditation without any make-believe characters and you'll be fine. If the thought of becoming an atheist makes you want to go p00py, just try Atheism Lite™ (agnosticism) for a while so you can easy into a more responsible, productive, and happy life.

      heavenSnot RIF

      August 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm |
    • adopted USA

      Your birth was unhealthy for the humanity!

      August 13, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
  16. Rebecca

    I stated what I believed...read a little farther back LILITH
    No not angry at all-just disappointed

    I asked a question. I got a one decent answer that wasn't "completely" dripping with contempt.
    Didn't really want to "debate" anyone, just maybe have a discussion.

    Good Evening

    August 13, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Helpful Hints

      Rebecca, "...read a little farther back LILITH"

      That's what happens when you don't use the "reply" button. Nobody is going to go "back" (somewhere?) and search for your previous posts.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • sam

      ? Well, you came in hostile and expected friendliness. Not very reasonable. Now you're leaving hostile...not surprised.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
  17. Moby Schtick

    Well that's more like it, USA. It's about da/mn time!

    August 13, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
  18. GOD PARTICLE UK Dave

    THERE'S NOT A HINT OF COOPERATION FROM SOME PEOPLE !!!! 😦

    LOCK THESE SLOBS UP & MAKE THEM SUFFER ETERNALLY !!!! 🙂

    August 13, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • David

      What, you mean send me to eternity with your sadistic, evil god?

      August 13, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
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  20. LtMacGowan

    As I said before if the religious fundamentalists would stop trying to hijack america and turn it into a christian state or if they stopped trying to jam their morality down our throats through legislation you wouldn't hear a peep out of us. I seriously do believe that our rights to not be religious are under threat as is the Separation of Church and State! You all should read about Dominionism its scary as can be. Talks about how christians should take over the government and turn it into a christian version of Iran.

    August 13, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • LtMacGowan

      Also people saying there are no Atheists in foxholes enrages me. There are plenty there is even a newsletter called exactly that but we're not as vocal because of the subtle discrimination. I was told to can the atheism stuff because it would effect unit cohesiveness because soldiers under my command couldn't bond with me and off the record that it would ruin my chances for promotion.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Beware the Christian/American Taliban

      @LtMacGowan: I'm with you on this one. I see Christian or Muslim fundamentalism as a huge threat to the future of America. Why otherwise rational people want to subject themselves to draconian rules is beyond me sometimes. And worse – they want to impose it on those of us that don't have their beliefs.

      August 13, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • raforrester

      Lt Mac, I agree with you 100% about the danger of the Dominion and the danger of fundamentalists pushing religious laws through the government. You may be surprised to hear that many other religions are just as concerned about that as you are. After all, freedom of religion is lost as soon as one religion seizes control.

      However, that has nothing to do with the existence of God, only with the extremism of those who claim to believe in God.

      August 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.