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 A billboard criticizing Christianity is going up in Charlotte, North Carolina, host city of the upcoming Democratic National Convention.
August 13th, 2012
10:03 AM ET
First on CNN: Atheist group targets presidential candidates' faith with billboardsBy Dan Merica, CNN Washington (CNN) - A prominent atheist group is using next month's Democratic National Convention to take aim at the presidential candidates' religion, putting up billboards targeting Mormonism and Christianity in Charlotte, North Carolina. “Our political system is rife with religion and it depends too much on religion and not enough on substance," said David Silverman, president of American Atheists, sponsor of the ads. "Religion is silly and religion has components that are inherently divisive. … There is no place for any of that in the political system,” he said. The billboards go up Monday in Charlotte and will stay up for a month at a cost of roughly $15,000. The Democratic convention runs September 3-6. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The billboard targeting Christianity features an image of Jesus Christ on toast and this description of the faith: "Sadistic God; Useless Savior, 30,000+ Versions of ‘Truth,’ Promotes Hates, Calls it ‘Love.’ ”
The billboard targeting Mormonism lambastes - and, Mormons would say, distorts - specific Mormon doctrines: "God is a Space Alien, Baptizes Dead People, Big Money, Big Bigotry.” The Mormon billboard features a man in white underwear, a reference to special Mormon garments. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Both billboards feature the line "Atheism: Simply Reasonable." American Atheists had wanted to put the anti-Mormon billboard in Tampa, Florida, to coincide with the Republican National Convention there later this month. Presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney is a Mormon. When no billboard company in the city would lease the group space for such a sign, Silverman said the organization decided to focus solely on the Democrats in Charlotte. “Presidential conventions are for ideas, not ideology - platforms, not platitudes," Silverman said. "If a person believes stupid things, we have every right to question his or her judgment, and that directly impacts how the nonreligious voter votes.” CNN Belief Blog: Atheist leader hopes to mobilize closeted nonbelievers Some religious leaders said the billboards showed a misunderstanding of how faith works. "That billboard makes the most common high-school error when it comes to atheism," wrote the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author, in an e-mail to CNN. "It's not arguing against the existence of God, but against religion. The American Atheists need to go back to school on this one." Martin also questioned the language used on the billboard: "And as for 'promoting hate' they're doing a bang-up job themselves with that billboard." Terryl Givens, a Mormon professor at the University of Richmond, called American Atheists "petty and vindictive." “If this example of adolescent silliness is what atheists mean by being reasonable, then neither Mormons nor other Christians have much to worry about," he said of the billboards. "When atheists organize to serve the poor and needy of the world, they will be taken more seriously." CNN Belief Blog: Unbelieving preachers 'come out' as atheists It's not the first time the American Atheists group has released in-your-face billboards. Earlier this year, the group put up two billboards in heavily Muslim and Jewish enclaves in New Jersey and New York bearing messages in Arabic and Hebrew. “You know it’s a myth … and you have a choice,” the billboards said. At the time, Silverman said the signs were intended to reach atheists in Muslim and Jewish areas who may feel isolated because they are surrounded by believers. In addition to the billboards, Silverman said his group plans to stage protests at both conventions. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Dude, I got news for you. The vast majority of atheists are atheists to AVOID joining groups which label them as sheep.
The idea of an evangelical atheist is completely illogical. It's like an honest politician or an honorable pimp.
Disorganization and confusion is expected in such filth. Carefully consider what you are doing before you approach it.
I hope that full use is made of the blasphemy laws in states where they are still on the books to prosecute the purpetrators who put up these billboards.
Got a list of those states? Got a definition of "blasphemy" that isn't made moot by freedom of expression? If the billboards are privately owned and do not meet the definition of p0rnography, what laws are being broken?
freedom of speech, highplains....
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Don't you get that YOUR kid is at school asking my kid why he doesn't believe in God, and my kid gives him a rational and straightforward answer? Don't you get that "blasphemy laws" are a way for YOU to gain control over your children who you have fed lies to and brainwashed all their lives, because some kind of sky god might have told some people who told some people who thought they should write something down?
highplainsparson,
Me too because then those laws will be shown to be unconst.itutional and overturned.
@highplainsparson,
Please tell me that you're being sarcastic. Fortunately , I believe all the standing blasphemy laws in the U.S. have been declared unconst.itutional. The last person convicted for blasphemy was atheist activist Charles Lee Smith, in 1928. Thankfully, we've evolved as a nation since then.
I find the incorporation doctrine to be spurious. In other words the 1st amendment does not restrict state law.
Someone asked for a list and definition. Here are some examples:
Massachusetts, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Wyoming, and Pennsylvania have laws that make reference to blasphemy. For example, Chapter 272 of the Massachusetts General Laws states:
Section 36. Whoever willfully blasphemes the holy name of God by denying, cursing or contumeliously reproaching God, His creation, government or final judging of the world, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching or exposing to contempt and ridicule, the holy word of God contained in the holy scriptures shall be punished by imprisonment in jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars, and may also be bound to good behavior.
Maryland statutes prohibit blasphemy:
Art. 72, sec. 189. If any person, by writing or speaking, shall blaspheme or curse God, or shall write or utter any profane words of and concerning our Saviour, Jesus Christ, or of and concerning the Trinity, or any of the persons thereof, he shall, on conviction, be fined not more than one hundred dollars, or imprisoned not more than six months, or both fined and imprisoned as aforesaid, at the discretion of the court.
These are laws that should be enforced. But even if they are not, or are someday changed, these people will one day stand before their Creator Jesus Christ, whose justice is perfect and whose law never changes.
highplains: empty proxy threats (or "warnings" to the pious out there) are laughable.
Ahahhhhhaha! "These are laws that should be enforced." Why? When they mention a "savior" that millions do not worship? These laws aren't enforced because they can't be. They wouldn't stand up in a court off law.
Really, if your puny god is so threatened by a billboard, he must be pretty much like the little man behind the curtain in The Wizard of Oz.
There is one Savior of mankind regardless of what percentage of people believe in him. This law merely recognizes that fact. No, he doesn't need human laws to do his will, but he's given us governments for a reason. It's a good law.
Parson, stow your disgusting blasphemy threats already, and your claims to authority that you do not merit. Since the Christian book of nasty AKA the bible contains instructions to do evil like the following, it is the text that should be soundly rejected, not that of the billboards of the article:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Before you try and criticize the Bible, try to understand it first. These kinds of arguments just make you look ignorant. If I were to criticize a book written by one of you "freethinkers" using the same tactics, that is, without making a real attempt to understand what I am criticizing, I would be scorned as not worthy of a reply.
It is not a good law, and it only appeals to inbred mother mounters
hpp, this is NOT a Christian nation and no one is required to believe in your god. Our laws are not based on your beliefs or on the bible.
You are simply laughable.
I cited some laws that are based on Christianity, and they are still on the books. I do not view America as a Christian nation because too many of these foundations have been undermined and other influences mixed in from secular philosophy. But it should be a Christian nation, just like every other nation ought to be. The good news is that Jesus, the King and Ruler of the Universe, is even now conquering many nations by his word and Spirit. You are powerless to stop him.
highplainsparson
Before you try and criticize the secular laws of this nation, try to understand them. These kinds of arguments just make you look ignorant.
There, I fixed it for you.
Your bible is not law. Never was.
I understand America's secular laws. I just disagree with them because they contradict the King. They need to be changed and replaced with better laws, and the good ones on the books need to be enforced. Note that I have not threatened anyone. I leave all judgment to God. I have no authority and he has all authority. My wish for all of you is that you would be saved by his grace through faith in Jesus Christ. There's an old saying: Don't shoot the messenger!
man needs no savior, no matter how many people think we do. see how easy it is to play that game?
This is not a game, Sam. If man needs no Savior, then where do your guilty feelings come from? Why do you do and think things that you know are wrong? Why do humans die? If death were natural and normal, would it hurt so much? Nature is screaming to you that things are not as they should be. Are you listening?
highplainsparson, try actually responding with some substance for a change. Again, these are direct quotes from your book of nasty AKA the bible. Examine them and then attempt to explain how you think that horrid text is a credible guide to anything. And remember that I'll haul you back to these if you try dodging again:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
These have already been addressed many times before. If you really cared to find the answers, they are readily available. Do a search for a blog called "The Christian Freethinker" and you will find answers to your questions. But you know that they are not really questions, and you're just looking for something with which to lay opprobium on the Holy Bible. You've got to try harder than that. I'm familiar with all of these passages and there is much for us to learn from them, as with all of Scripture.
i am not criticizing the bible. i am just saying it doesn't apply to our secular laws
I didn't even bring up the Bible. I was talking about existing state law. The Bible is a different discussion. And yes, it is the basis for much, but not all, of our state laws.
we are not shooting the messanger. we are ridiculing the message. there is a difference, but i suspect it would be lost on you.
Namecalling is rarely a convincing form of argumentation. Nor is ridicule. But I am used to it. It's part of living in this evil world.
You aren't a "messenger", you arrogant twit. You're a delusional fundie who thinks this country should operate according to your beliefs. That's not what the founders intended and it isn't what the majority of citizens want. Your silly beliefs have nothing to do with reality or law, nor should they. There IS a wall between church and state, and when I read the mumbo-jumbo of crazies like you, I can only hope it is a very high wall.
I don't have to adhere to your silly superst it ions.
There's very little that we "crazy fundies" can do to you, as you know. Nor would I in my current calling. It's not my job to punish anyone for their crimes, in a civil sense. But there is one you should worry about, and you will meet him one day.
"This is not a game, Sam"
Of course it is
"If man needs no Savior, then where do your guilty feelings come from? Why do you do and think things that you know are wrong?"
Because we are human
"Why do humans die?"
Because we are living beings with finite life spans.
"If death were natural and normal, would it hurt so much?"
Yes. Illlness frequently results in pain.
"Nature is screaming to you that things are not as they should be. Are you listening?"
Nature is screaming at you that things ARE as they should be. Are YOU listening?
You can observe some things about our reality as humans. But you can't explain them. If things were OK, it would not be as it is. We would not have guilty consciences. Death would not hurt those who remain. You have no explanation for these things. Nature is sending you a message. It would be well if you listened.
"But there is one you should worry about, and you will meet him one day"
Again, your empty proxy threats are laughable. Get off your knees and try to be a man.
Your threats are no more effective than are you exhortations about laws.
It's your hell. You burn in it.
"It's part of living in this evil world."
The world isn't evil, it's the way you perceive it to be, now ask yourself why. The answer is because of your religion brainwashes you into believing that when in fact most people in this world are good. You are judging the masses by the bad deeds of a few. That is what is so horrible about people like you. The world isn't evil, you are.
At least I have a clear conscience knowing that I've carried the warning message. Someday you will know I'm right, and you will wish I had said more. That's not a threat. It's a prophecy.
Parson,
Your book is immoral, absurd and contradictory.
Your god is immoral and would not deserve worship even if he was real.
The Bill of Rights supercedes all State laws.
"At least I have a clear conscience knowing that I've carried the warning message. Someday you will know I'm right, and you will wish I had said more. That's not a threat. It's a prophecy."
And when you find out you're wrong, you'll realize you have done more harm than good.
It's not possible that I'm wrong about this. Once you turn the lights on in a dark room, you can't go back to imagining the way it looks while sitting in the dark, even if ten blindfolded men in the room are still trying to convince you that the lampshade is pink. You can see that it's brown.
Parson, you know what I have changed my mind.
I am going to take what your are saying and apply God's teaching to my life and the life of my son. He is young enough so I can leave his life and he will not remember me, I will however have my neighbor down the street write a book about me and let my son know I exist. I will return to his life when he is about 40 years old, if at that time he believes I am his father and he loves me I will buy him a car, if he does not I will set him on fire. It all makes sense now, whatever happens he is responsible for the outcome, I will have done everything I can, my conscience will be clean.
We Christians experience God firsthand, and walk with him every day. I'm not expecting you to believe based on my experience, but if God decides to infuse you with a knowledge of the truth, you'll know him too.
It's a proxy threat. You are a delusional twit
You are welcome to believe what you want, but when you start attempting to interfere with my legal right to freedom of expression, you are overstepping your bounds.
"We Christians experience God firsthand, and walk with him every day."
But time after time you fail to prove this claim and then can't understand why people don't believe you. You then threaten people with you gods torture and can't understand why that is an immoral position to take.
The Emperor has no clothes
Those who write laws allowing people to blaspheme their Creator are overstepping their bounds, saying it's OK to do what God has expressly forbidden. There is no middle ground. We are not going to agree on civil law until we agree on the Creator and his purpose for human existence. No one is tolerant of what they believe to be immoral, when it comes down to it. Some of the responses to me on this thread are a case in point.
HPP: "It is not possible that I am wrong about this."
Probably what the hijackers said just before they flew into the WTC.
I don't have to prove God. He speaks for himself. His voice is heard in all of creation, and especially in the Bible, if you would care to hear it.
Probably the highjackers told themselves that, but that doesn't make it true, does it? Any more than my saying that the Bible is true makes it true. It would still be true even if I denied it.
Look, dude. You're a zealot who believes that there is only one right way and that all else is wrong. You see every issue in black and white without ever a shade of grey. You have to do this because to do otherwise would require you to think and reason.
What is it you don't get about this being a secular nation? If you want to live in a nation in which the laws are based on the bible, fine, go there, wherever that is. You don't get to make over this country into your own private church.
No. You believe it's true. That doesn't make it so. Why is it you nuts cannot distinguish between 'belief' and 'fact'?
Your beliefs are no more likely to be true than those of the terrorists. And you have no more proof that they are than they did.
Tom, like it or not, this country is still part of God's kingdom, no matter how hard it protests against him. I'm not very much at all concerned to make American a Christian nation. I am occupied with winning souls one person at a time, and strengthening the faithful. America will one day fade away, but the Kingdom of Jesus Christ lasts forever.
highplainsparson
I don't have to prove God. He speaks for himself. His voice is heard in all of creation, and especially in the Bible, if you would care to hear it.
--
No, it doesn't. And yes, if you want to impose god's laws on others, you will have to prove he exists.
"You're a zealot who believes that there is only one right way and that all else is wrong. You see every issue in black and white without ever a shade of grey."
Pot meet kettle.
Well, you're just doing one heck of a job, Brownie.
People like you do more to drive me further away from religion than anything else.
The assertion that my beliefs have no more proof than that of Islamic terrorists needs to be substantiated, or it is just a bare assertion out of ignorance. The truth is that there is evidence for Christianity, if you would care to look into it. But this is not the forum to present it. Nor would you believe, even if it were convincingly presented, because the unbeliever's problem is not at root an intellectual deficiency, but a moral one. I will leave the proving to God. If and when he wishes to make America a Christian nation, he will impress and infuse the truth into the souls of Americans. And he is doing this every day. My job is simply to carry the message that all who wish to be forgiven and reconciled the the Creator have an open invitation to come to him by trusting in and submitting to King Jesus the Savior of the world. For those who disbelieve, God is able to turn their disbelief into willing faith, if he so wills.
Stick your pot up your fundament.
I do not believe churches should be taxed. I don't think all believers are zealots or crazy. I think public schools should educate students about religious beliefs of all kinds, and that art and music classes should include the study of both sacred and secular works. I know many Christians who practice what they preach and don't spend their time judging others.
So when you remove that log from your eye, get back to me.
The burden of proof is on you, parson, not on me. You make the claim that your god is real. I'm not the one required to substantiate anything since one can't prove a negative.
"The truth is that there is evidence for Christianity, if you would care to look into it. But this is not the forum to present it."
In other words, I have no way of backing my claim and thus I will now whine and scream foul. What an ignorant ass!! There is no evidence for christardation outside of evidence that it makes an otherwise working brain stop and makes one gullible!!
@highplainsparson- Obviously you are quite committed to your beliefs and that is good. You don't seem to want to impose your viewpoints upon anyone in an illegal manner and that is good as well. Don't let the haters get you down. They tend to think that if anyone has a religious belief they must be trying to impose their beliefs upon them. Sort of a persecution complex that some (thankfully not all) atheists have.
"We Christians experience God firsthand, and walk with him every day. I'm not expecting you to believe based on my experience, but if God decides to infuse you with a knowledge of the truth, you'll know him too."
Actually that is not true, science has proven that it's all in your head. You are actually talking to yourself while accessing a particular part of your brain. We can all have that feeling without having to believe in a god and we can all be good without the need for a god.
Religious people find it very annoying that people don't need God to be good, as science has now incontestably proved.
For millennia, we've been brainwashed into believing that we needed the Almighty to redeem us from an essentially corrupt nature. Left to our own devices, people would quickly devolve into beasts, more violent, tactless, aggressive, and selfish, than we already are.
Today, we know that this isn't true. With the discovery of mirror neurons by Italian neuroscientist Giaccomo Rizzolatti in the 1990s, we now have physiological proof of why - and how - our species became hard-wired for goodness. Mirror neurons are miraculous cells in the brain whose sole purpose is to harmonize us with our environments. By reflecting the outside world inward, we actually become each other - a little bit; neurologically changed by what is happening around us. Mirror neurons are the reason that we have empathy and can feel each other's pain. It is because of mirror neurons that you blush when you see someone else humiliated, flinch when someone else is struck, and can't resist the urge to laugh when seeing a group struck with the giggles. (Indeed, people who test for "contagious yawning" tend to be more empathic.) These tiny mirrors are the key to most things noble and good inside us.
It is through mirror neurons - not God - that we redeem ourselves, achieve salvation, and are "reborn" in virtuous ways once co-opted by religions. Evolution knew what she was doing. A group of successful cooperators has a much higher chance of thriving than a population of selfish liars. In spite of what we read in the headlines, the ratio of bad to good deeds done on any given day across our planet holds at close to zero any day of the year. Although we are ethical works-in-progress, the vast majority of us are naturally positive creatures - meaning not harmful to our environments - most of the time in most of the ways that matter. And God has nothing to do with it.
Spirituality does but God doesn't. Evolutionary psychologists tell us that our brains are hard-wired with a five-toned moral organ that focuses on a quintet of ethical values - one of which is purity, or sacredness. In a world that can sometimes be disgusting, we evolved an upper tier of emotional longing - the aspiration for purity - to keep us balanced in this satyricon of carnal delights (where animality beckons and frequently wins). Our need for sacredness is part of our ancient survival apparatus, and manifests in what we call faith, the need to connect with that sacred dimension. This has been the primary purpose of religion, of course - to congregate people for the Greater Good - but God has been, in fact, the divine carrot. The important part was communion, a context in which to transcend ourselves, if only for an hour on Sundays. Without this ability "to turn off the Me and turn on the We," moral psychologist Jonathan Haidt tells us, our species would still be wandering around as groups of nomads, unable to create a civilization.
Aside from mirror neurons, there's oxytocin, the molecule of connection (also known as the molecule of love). It's fascinating to learn that the vagus nerve produces more oxytocin when we witness virtuous behavior in others that makes us want to be better people ourselves. We are wired by nature to be elevated at the sight of other people's goodness, mirror neurons and oxytocin conspiring to improve the species. Miraculous though it is, this natural human phenomenon has nothing to do with theology.
"So when you remove that log from your eye, get back to me."
Touchy, touchy...perhaps it would do you well to behave on here like you do in the real world. Maybe then your hypocrisy won't seem to blatant.
Tom, I can debunk Islam in about four sentences. Islam claims that the Bible came from God. The Bible states that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam states that Jesus is not the Son of God. Therefore, Islam is inconsistent and cannot be true.
Human existence is more than just the sum of neurons and other physical matter and phenomena.
TruthPrevails
There seems to be an excess of darkness and negative thoughts in your heart since you rejected Christ. Is that who you are without Chirst? Is that the person you want to be?
Proof of Christ is in the power to transform lives. Try it.
"Some of the responses to me on this thread are a case in point."
Parson,
I will fight for your right to believe and express your opinion,
But taking issue with the content of what you believe or express is not intolerant if there is not threat of action or action. Opposition is not hate, no matter how much you want it to be.
Entil'za: Blah blah blah...my poor christard friend is being picked on and I must defend it. Reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours, is it? Steadily throughout this, the dolt is imposing its beliefs on people and not backing its fallacious claims. Maybe you care to point us to the evidence, since your poor christard friend isn't capable of doing so.
fred: Not at all!! Intolerance of intolerance is not a bad thing. Highplainsparson is here speaking of stuff they can't back up. I do not require your imaginary friend to live a good life. Unlike the two of you I'm quite capable of being a good person without a book of fairy tales to tell me how to act!
@YeahRight- "Actually that is not true, science has proven that it's all in your head."
~Really....care to cite the paper that proved this is all in Parson's head? I believe you are incorrect in what science has or has not proven.
"Religious people find it very annoying that people don't need God to be good, as science has now incontestably proved."
~You are saying that science has proven good? I think you mean more along the lines of morality and not "good".
"It is through mirror neurons – not God – that we redeem ourselves, achieve salvation, and are "reborn" in virtuous ways once co-opted by religions."
~Throwing a lot of faith based words there for such a scientific comment.
"Evolution knew what she was doing."
~Evolution knows nothing.
Crap....it's all just copy/paste. If you want to read the original just go here: h t t p://w w w.huffingtonpost.c o m/mark-matousek/you-dont-need-god-to-be-g_b_854870.h t m l
"~Really....care to cite the paper that proved this is all in Parson's head? I believe you are incorrect in what science has or has not proven."
Cite your source that proves it wrong since you only spew your opinions not based on facts.
NoTruthJustClaims
“Opposition is not hate, no matter how much you want it to be”
=>goes both ways so please tell others that the Bible view of ho-mo$exual behavior is not hate speech.
"Human existence is more than just the sum of neurons and other physical matter and phenomena."
Sounds like emergentism.
@TruthPrevails :-)- I don't know Parsons in any way. Odd, I have not noticed your name popping up when atheists support one another. Are you a hypocrite?
How is he imposing his beliefs on anyone? By writing on a comment board? Grow some thicker skin will ya?
Steve- "Cite your source that proves it wrong since you only spew your opinions not based on facts."
Oh Steve...don't you know that one cannot prove a negative?
Enty, what would you know about how I "behave in the real world"? If some azzhole in the real world came up to me and told me that I had no right to speak freely and that I was required to be a Christian, I'd treat that person exactly the same way I'm treating HPP. With scorn.
Now blow it out your ear.
TruthPrevails
You ask for proof that there is a God. 56 out of 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence (formidable men of their day in contrast to your “christard” state of heart) clearly stated we are “endowed by our Creator”, “these truths are self-evident” and the closed our Declaration of Independence with the statement “We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world……
Just how did the Supreme Judge of the world respond? America remains the greatest superpower ever known in the history of the world.. Just what do you not understand about self-evident?
Tom, I can debunk Islam in about four sentences. Islam claims that the Bible came from God. The Bible states that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam states that Jesus is not the Son of God. Therefore, Islam is inconsistent and cannot be true.
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Ahahahhahaha. "Cause the Bible tells me so..."
Not even close. But thanks for playing.
Did you understand that my short argument was not based on the Bible? I merely pointed out a logical inconsistency in Islam, which affirms the Bible while rejecting its teaching. Understand?
Neither Christianity nor Islam is anything but belief, parson. They're both inconsistent, illogical, and based on fear.
You just love those unsubstantiated claims, don't you?
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "what would you know about how I "behave in the real world"?"
Duh...what you said in your previous comments.
"If some azzhole in the real world came up to me and told me that I had no right to speak freely and that I was required to be a Christian, I'd treat that person exactly the same way I'm treating HPP. With scorn."
You behave on here like that when people just make regular comments. Are they not free to speak Dictator Tom?
Whatsamatter, Lycidas?
People can speak on here any way they choose. And so can I. I am not required to be polite. If it bothers you so much, don't read my posts.
@Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "Not even close. But thanks for playing."
Why? Because Tom says so? That's an epic fail.
Now Tom, to show that you were correct, what you should have done was to say if all the statements were true. Are they or are they not?
1)Islam claims that the Bible came from God.
2)The Bible states that Jesus is the Son of God.
3)Islam states that Jesus is not the Son of God.
4)Therefore, Islam is inconsistent and cannot be true.
Entil'za: Apparently you're not on here often then! It is imposing its beliefs by its initial comment, by failing to comprehend that the USA is a Secular nation based on Secular beliefs. It would rather see people who do not share the same imaginary friend be punished...not exactly a good loving christian!
Fred: The Declaration of Independence was not only signed by christians but by Deists also. The separation of church state amendment exists for a reason. The USA does not have a state religion and thus is a Secular nation.
@Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "People can speak on here any way they choose."
You are a fine example of that.
"I am not required to be polite. If it bothers you so much, don't read my posts"
Odd...why don't you take your own advice? Seems that many religious oriented posts on here bother you. Why read them?
Why don't you go back and look at the sequence of comments, bozo? Enty told me I was a hypocrite because I behave differently (he claims) in the real world than I do here, based on my comments about my beliefs. Now read my response.
I choose to read them and comment on them. You're free to do the same or not. Get it?
TruthPrevails 🙂 "Apparently you're not on here often then! It is imposing its beliefs by its initial comment,"
It is a "belief board"..what do you think the comments would be like? Go co mplain to CNN for not having a Secular Board becuase there is nothing wrong with making religious statements on a belief board.
Entil'za won't get it Tom Tom.
You're a hoot, Enty. You apparently aren't too clear on what a comment board is for.
2)The Bible states that Jesus is the Son of God.
----
What the bible states is not fact.
Entil'za: Wow, you're quite the ignorant little troll. I understand that the dolt who started this has the right to its opinion and I have the right to tell the dolt it is wrong and to request that it back its claims.
Go back to your bridge now...
"I choose to read them and comment on them. You're free to do the same or not. Get it?"
I've always got it...it's just funny when certain people get upset because of people (mostly those of faith) comments back. Those people tend to get bent out of shape by being challenged by the religious ones.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "What the bible states is not fact."
Whether it is fact or not is irrelevant to the purpose of the comment. Those in Islam believe the Bible is accurate yes? That is the point of the comment, not saying it is or is not fact.
Enty, I do want to thank you EVER so much for your concern about my feelings, though. I know you think that I'm "upset", and you're just trying to be a friend, right?
If someone says that a billboard should be removed because it's blasphemous and that laws concerning blasphemy should be enforced, I'm going to speak up and object.
Suppose I tell you that you're not allowed to erect a billboard on your property that expresses your beliefs? Would you sit still for that?
I'm not upset about HPP. I am disagreeing with his as sertions and his insistence that what he believes is fact rather than a faith. I am disagreeing with him that his faith and belief are the only valid ones in the entire universe.
If that bothers you, too bad.
TruthPrevails
Point was that it was unanimous by 56 men of greatness that a creator is self-evident and appealed to that Supreme Judge when making a declaration that affected the entire world. America’s superpower status to date is the result of a people that have their foundation in the fear of God.
A secular government has nothing to do with the foundation of the heart of its people that drives the nature of any country. These truths are self-evident and require no proof. How is it the creator was self-evident to these 56 but not to you these days as it once was. That is the point. You are grasping as false reasons to reject what is and was self-evident.
@. : Blah blah blah...my poor athiestard friend is being picked on and I must defend it. Reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours, is it? Steadily throughout this, the dolt is imposing its beliefs on people and not backing its fallacious claims.
Enty, you don't get it: neither is factual. Both are equally inconsistent. Both are equally silly. Basing your 'debunking' of one on what it says about the other is useless.
Again, if it upsets you to read posts I write, the solution is simple: don't.
I didn't request, nor do I require, your advice.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "If someone says that a billboard should be removed because it's blasphemous and that laws concerning blasphemy should be enforced, I'm going to speak up and object."
I don't blame you...I would as well.
"I'm not upset about HPP. I am disagreeing with his as sertions and his insistence that what he believes is fact rather than a faith. I am disagreeing with him that his faith and belief are the only valid ones in the entire universe."
And if that was the manner you would voice your disagreement....nothing at all wrong with that.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "Both are equally inconsistent."
So..you are saying that the statement, "The Bible states that Jesus is the Son of God." is not accurate, the Bible does not state that Jesus is the Son of God. That was all that was required.
Tom tom
In the Harry Potter series it is a fact that Harry had special powers as in the Bible it is a fact that Jesus was the full representation of God. You have a higher authority that all can accept that Harry Potter was fictional. You do not have a higher authority that all can accept that the Bible is fictional.
fred, that is the stupidest comment that you've made... in at least an hour.
No one needs a "higher authority" to say that the bible is not factual. The burden is on you to prove it is. You can't.
No one needs a "higher authority" to say that Harry Potter is not factual, either.
The Bible is distinguished from all other books by its unique marks of divine authorship. Check out my blog post on the subject by clicking on my name above. (It's on the 2nd or 3rd page.)
You really are thick, Enty. I am saying that the bible might claim something; that doesn't make it true.
What part of that are you unable to understand?
All religions claim to be "the one true path", including Christianity. There's no reason to believe that one is correct and that the others are not.
Makes sense, until you examine the unique evidence for Christianity.
Enty, if you don't like the manner in which I voice my objections, tough. I don't care if you do or not. This isn't a co cktail party. If you don't like my posts, there's a simple solution: DON'T READ THEM. I'm not going to change my comments just because you're such a delicate little flower you can't handle them or ignore them.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "I am saying that the bible might claim something; that doesn't make it true."
It's like talking to a wall. Young lady, for the purpose of why the statement was made..it doesn't matter at all if it's true or not. You are trying to win an argument that no one has made.
The statement basically said that those of the Islamic religion believe in the Bible. The Bible states that Jesus is God. Those in Islam do not believe that Jesus is God. Therefor they do not believe in the Bible....thus the contradiction. That was all he was trying to say but you just didn't get it.
Tom tom
“All religions claim to be "the one true path", including Christianity. There's no reason to believe that one is correct and that the others are not.”
1)You cannot make that argument without also including your belief i.e. atheism is not the one true path anymore than any other belief or non belief is the way the truth or the light.
2)There is reason to believe only one is correct in that the teachings themselves eliminate the other consideration. If the teachings are wrong they cannot be the true path.
3)Goodness is truth perfected thus the question boils down to what is good. Jesus claimed to be the full representation of God. Find what is not good in Jesus and you will find a reason to discredit Christ. Otherwise Christ represented the way the truth and the light. This eliminates all others.
So, tell me Tom what fault do find in Christ ?
fred, the day you can prove he existed, I'll be happy to discuss him with you.
Don't even bother attempting to pretend that the Bible proves a thing; it doesn't. If it did, every single being would know it.
That's a non-sequitur. There are a number of reasons why not every single being knows that the Bible is entirely truthful. The first is that not everyone has been exposed to it. That's an understatement. The second is that many of those who have rejected it because it was not in their own self-interest to acknowledge it, since they are enemies of God.
7 And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever. (Book of Mormon, Moroni, Chapter 10)
Not capable of thinking for yourself??
God told me, to tell you all, to stop looking for him. He also wants me to tell you all that all the stories are wrong, they took notes a few thousand years to late to be accurate. Oh YEAH.... he said stop disrespecting the brain he gave you, and use that sh_it. Ask questions, he said, lots and lots of questions........
Have faith that I'm telling the truth. Please pass this on in church.
Amen-Ra
"Ask questions, he said, lots and lots of questions"
So how did he reveal himself to you?
What did he tell you about himself and the meaning of life?
I mean you only focus on what not to do, but not what to do
@Mike from CT –
He revealed himself to me, within the me-ness, of myself. It's called Me-town.
I can give you more details, but it will only work if donantions are given to my PayPal account.
Me and God are only accepting donantions in denominations of $20. Please give, God wants you to know!
God probably revealed himself in a less crazy way than he supposedly did to Joseph Smith. Doesn't anyone think it odd that he saw Golden Tablets, given that gold is usually one sure sign, in the rest of the bible, of idolatry?
These radical atheists are nothing but Saudi stooges, witting or unwitting. What has ultra-secularism accomplished in Europe, esp. France, except to create a void for Islamist ideology to rush in and fill? In many “French” neighbourhoods, Shariah law is brutally enforced and women are afraid to walk the streets without Islamic head cover. Do we want the same thing to happen here? That’s what we’ll get from undermining all the Judeo-Christian foundations of our society. The Saudis have loads of money to promote their brand of Islam in the West and it’s not restricted to funding various radical mosques and Imams. They also have money to influence politicians into supporting mass immigration and they certainly have money to promote the ultra-secularist ideology, knowing it’s a dead end that will facilitate an Islamist takeover in the long run.
Our country relies on the Saudis for how much of our gasoline? Who is really the stooge here?
What are you? Nuts? We challenge delusional thinking whatever flavor. Do you seriously believe we would stand by once Christian beliefs are dismantled or made irrelevant only to allow some other whacko beliefs to replace them? What part of secular don't you get? All superstition is nonsense. No ghosts, spirits, angels, demons or gods have any place in secular society.
@FastFrankie,
Your fear mongering seems reminiscent of worry about putting a Papist in the White House with JFK, the Red Scare of the 50s, and Salem witch trials of the 1600s.
Good luck with that.
Uh huh. We need to continue supporting the absurd prominence of Christianity in the US, in order to prevent the absurd prominence of Islam. Did I get that right?
I'll have what you're smoking.
Good God, your conspiracy theory is silly.
The people involved are highly educated ones who simply see no place for a bronze age book. Or any other myth.
One wonders that you feel there simply has to be some connection or pattern with regards to everyting you dislike, so you can lump it all together.
1 And the people began to forget those signs and wonders which they had heard, and began to be less and less astonished at a sign or a wonder from heaven, insomuch that they began to be hard in their hearts, and blind in their minds, and began to disbelieve all which they had heard and seen—
2 Imagining up some vain thing in their hearts, that it was wrought by men and by the power of the devil, to lead away and deceive the hearts of the people; and thus did Satan get possession of the hearts of the people again, insomuch that he did blind their eyes and lead them away to believe that the doctrine of Christ was a foolish and a vain thing.
3 And it came to pass that the people began to wax strong in wickedness and abominations; and they did not believe that there should be any more signs or wonders given; and Satan did go about, leading away the hearts of the people, tempting them and causing them that they should do great wickedness in the land. (Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi, Chapter 2)
Once upon a time, in a land far, far away...
And then Satan send his son Galileo to mislead the people into believing that the Earth that God had made flat was actually round!!!
Copy and paste passages all day. They have no effect.
You do realize that quoting a religious book to nonbelievers is about as effective as quoting a comic book.
@Slmran:
That is excellent. I will use that.
“And the people began to forget those signs and wonders which they had heard”
That’s the problem. All I ever get is stories from christians about signs and wonders. When you ask to see some or see evidence of even just one, all the Christians come across with is excuses.
>>>”When you ask to see some or see evidence of even just one, all the Christians come across with is excuses.”
The question is what are you looking for in evidence of a sign. I have heard people testify to what they feel was a sign that made them turn left and then something happened on the right. The possibilities are many and at the conclusion of many of those testimonies what has strengthened the Faith of these is the common theme that folks can not explain why or what happened. It comes down to the unexplained and there have been such throughout history that science can still not explain. Which is why, I feel the fishing and offering of excuses tends to be the mantra of some Atheist. When a person of Faith attributes it to a act of God or Gods that is where they stand but it is many times the Atheist who, will attempt to offer any excuse except that of God's intervention. All the while declaring that the Faithful should be open too all possibilities but themselves not being open to all possibilities.
Shedding some light on the Galileo issue. The problem was not completely with his science, which it turns out, was flawed. But, his people skills. He publicly humiliated a Cardinal which, is probably not good politics. Rather than proof his point, Galileo earned a powerful enemy. Thus he was basically relegated to house arrest.
It is a good thing that the Church did not rush to embrace Galileo’s views, because it turned out that his ideas were not entirely correct, either. Galileo believed that the sun was not just the fixed center of the solar system but the fixed center of the universe. We now know that the sun is not the center of the universe and that it does move—it simply orbits the center of the galaxy rather than the earth.
As more recent science has shown, both Galileo and his opponents were partly right and partly wrong. Galileo was right in asserting the mobility of the earth and wrong in asserting the immobility of the sun. His opponents were right in asserting the mobility of the sun and wrong in asserting the immobility of the earth.
Had the Catholic Church rushed to endorse Galileo’s views—and there were many in the Church who were quite favorable to them—the Church would have embraced what modern science has disproved.
Mark, you are actually making progress in your thinking. Congratulations. Now consider what proof you have of the divinity of Jesus, and describe it. Then explain how sacrifice by an omnipotent being could possibly be required to remove sin, and how such a sacrifice is even meaningful or possible.
Keep it up, little one. One step at a time.
Bill D: go look up "apologist".
So how are you feeling today, Mr. Chamberlain?
"but it is many times the Atheist who, will attempt to offer any excuse except that of God's intervention."
Mark,
This is because out of all the millions of times god's intervention has been claimed exactly zero have been proven to be true. Simpler answers should be looked for. If an answer can't be found "I don't know" is more reasonable than "god did it".
@Bill
“As more recent science has shown, both Galileo and his opponents were partly right and partly wrong. Galileo was right in asserting the mobility of the earth and wrong in asserting the immobility of the sun. His opponents were right in asserting the mobility of the sun and wrong in asserting the immobility of the earth.”
So this is a wash in your view?
>>>”This is because out of all the millions of times God's intervention has been claimed exactly zero have been proven to be true.”
In the millions of times we have come to points where things can not or could not be explained. It is mostly the Atheist that declares that the Faithful should be open to all possibilities but find themselves not open to all possibilities. It is not saying that they should automatically accept it but there is this almost fear to open up a closed mind of some Atheist of all possibilities.
In many ways the cries saying “It could only be God !!!” are the same ironclad statements as those saying “It could be anything but God!!!”.
Mark,
Try the answer "I don't know" instead of pretending you do.
I need a TV show where we can argue about God all day, then get targeted for terrorist attacks because of what we say on TV, then I get shot in the chest, and I'll come back from the dead with powers that clung to me because I passed through a different dimension called 'Death-Realm' and continue with my TV show, but this time, when I get shot again, because we'll continue to argue about God on the show, any bullets that enter my body will come out of my butt, and that's when they'll cancel my show.
Because bullets came out my butt.
Not because I kept getting shot. Because that is what entertained people the most. Me getting shot.
There has been an atheist TV show call The Atheist Experience on for over 12 years in Austin Texas. None of the hosts has ever been attacked (threatened yes...but never physically attacked). Turns out the typical theists' bark is worse than their bite.
And then we will say you have redeemed atheists of their sins. People, we have a God amongst us!
Then the theists can surely claim atheism is a religion
Go Austin! 🙂
Atheism is a religion. They worship the devil.
. is a period-worshipper.
Nah...we don't believe in that guy either. And while I can't speak for all of us we generally don't worship anything.
Who's "deeeeev.... deeeee.... " no wait. "devil". Who's that?
Idiot!!! If I don't believe in your imaginary friend god, then I certainly don't believe in your imaginary friend's arch enemy 'the devil'.
I bet "." also believes in Superman and Lex Luthor.
OH yes, I worship Tom Cruise!
Have you ever got it wrong @. Doesn't matter what name I go by satan, beelzebub, bile, leviathan, hades, pluto, etc. it just hasn't worked out all that well. I don't have a congregation of any size, there are no temples or places of worship being built in my many names and if I pass the plate amongst the atheists I am lucky to come up with the price of a cup of coffee. The only people that actually belive I exist in this day and age are some mentally unbalanced christian fanatics. Thanks . and HS for keeping up my profile.
Don't you just love to pull the devil's beard and then watch him jump up and down and holler? I know I sure do, but tsk tsk I was hoping for a real stir and everyone but truthprevails was only mediocre. Come on atheists, let's show some team spirit here!
Maybe if you posted something that was even mildly interesting, you'd get a reaction other than a yawn.
Oh, I should have mentioned my name is legion. You did well too.
OH NO! It's the evil, invisible, red lizard again, pitching non-believers into hot lava! RUN!
Atheism is a religion just like not riding playing football is a sport.
Well... I do not believe that they worship the Devil but slowly Atheism is sounding more and more like a Religion. It even has its radical wing and its more tolerance wing. It's kinda at the same phase of one of those new three wheel motorbikes. It is not a full blown bike but is very close to it.
@Mark,
Nope. The only variance you see among most Atheists is how vocal they are about theists impacting their freedom FROM religion. Nearly all are content that you believe whatever you want as long as you keep it out of politics, schools, laws, work, and government. Some are simply more aggressive than others about voicing their displeasure towards Wallbuilders and other belief-centered groups and people that work to influence us.
>>>”The only variance you see among most Atheists is how vocal they are about theists impacting their freedom FROM religion.”
Hey longhorn. A year or so ago a Atheist posted that there was a major difference between saying “I do not believe that there is a God and from saying that another is stupid or bad for believing that there is a God”. Even in this thread and ones similar, you have some Atheist stating that these signs do more to hurt Atheism than to help it. The divisions of Atheism are starting to become clearer everyday.
>>>”. Nearly all are content that you believe whatever you want as long as you keep it out of politics, schools, laws, work, and government.”
That is the same argument that folks have made about Gays, Minorities and any other special interest group. All are pushing their agenda on society and all have their opponents that make the same request that you made. You have your 700 club types that whine about the Gay agenda and how it is in our politics, forced on their children at school, laws at work, and with Gay and Lesbian politicians. All the same intolerance as spoken by you as your hope.
>>>”Some are simply more aggressive than others about voicing their displeasure towards.... “
So, then that just proves my point that Atheist as they find their voice are becoming more and more like a Religion every year. They have their Westburo Baptist and I give it a few years until that “aggressive” side you mention will push some in the Atheist community into Taliban'ish types of acts.
Its evolution Longhorn and yall are late to the party but right on track.
>>>”Wallbuilders and other belief-centered groups and people that work to influence us.”
Yeah.... to influence us. Question, you ever notice that to one person it is called as you said or the term “push” or “force” is used. The other side is always stating that it is trying to educate you. I heard a New York City Health department spokeswoman speak of how they want to raise taxes on foods that they feel are unhealthy and to get rid of logos on cigarette packs. Her entire reasoning was that they need to “educate” the general public to make the choices in their lives that they feel are the right ones. Even the First Lady was on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno and was upset that the first African American girl to win all around gymnastics gold ..one of only three Americans to do so, ...stated that the first thing she did the next morning was to eat a huge McDonalds breakfast. She declared that Gabby's comments made her job ..or agenda of dieting.. that much harder.
My question to you LongHorn, since you are on a crusade to fight any group that desires to “influence” society.... does that include all groups or just the Faithful?
Peace dude.
"When atheists organize to serve the poor and needy of the world, they will be taken more seriously." – Wow. Dude must be off his meds again. What X-tian organization actually helps non-X-tians without trying to convert them?
And that staement says nothing about the contention that his beliefs are absurd. It is a Red Herring.
There are many secular organizations that provide these sorts of services. It goes without saying that you can do any of this without the need for belief in a sky fairy.
If you want to reduce religion to social work, many non-religious organizations perform the work more efficiently without all of the prosthelytizing and baggage that comes with the scourge of religion.
The hundreds/thousands of Catholic Charities organizations nationwide, for one, offer the poor and needy charity without (in general) proselytization. Of course, if one were poor and needy, one would think a little preaching, were it to occur, would be a small price to pay. But since you are, and know, so much better than everyone else, good thing you'll never need any charity.
Furthermore, has he never heard of any secular charities? Any at all? Amnesty International? UNICEF? Doctors Without Borders? Any of these ring a bell? No?
The largest charitable foundation (ever!) in the world is the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (with Warren Buffet), founded by agnostics.
The Red Cross and St. Jude's Childrens Hospital = totally secular.
Here is a list of the top charitable foundations in the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_charitable_foundations
I don't have time to look them all up, but, for one, The David & Lucile Packard Foundation is wholly secular and gives no support for religious purposes.
Terryl Givens, a Mormon professor at the University of Richmond, called American Atheists "petty and vindictive."
“If this example of adolescent silliness is what atheists mean by being reasonable, then neither Mormons nor other Christians have much to worry about," he said of the billboards. "When atheists organize to serve the poor and needy of the world, they will be taken more seriously."
Well if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I dont know what is.
So your response is: "I know you are but what am I"? Brilliant.
You must not know anything about Mormons if you think the pot is calling the kettle black. You have no idea, do you?
Churches generally give 10% or less of their donations to social welfare. just saying.
You know, for the first years of my life, where I was raised as a catholic, I constantly battled the doubts of the faith and religion.
Now that I've accepted the FACTS and did my "soul" searching ending up at the conclusion there is no god, I don't seem to have that constant battle within or that never ending "it's ok, there HAS to be something."
And it just feels so much more open now, and free.
So I agree with the person who said that deep down inside, most people feel there is no god. They just force themselfs to stay the path, ignoring reason and facts. Oh well.
Well said, it works for me in the same way. The constant pressure put on by society to visit my temple, perform my prayers, be good bcoz God is watching, always pray before you do something important – it always seemed irrational. I just saw people following rituals and practices in a meaningless way. And the most religious always appeared to be the most viscious. Yes, I also have seen some people who are true to their faith, very few though – only they did not judge. The rest of the crowd just was as they call a crowd.
Stepping out of religion made me free. I could choose my own path, using my own mind and do what appealed to my conscience. I could explore the beauty of nature, of fellow humans and other creatures and marvel at how each creature must have shaped up during evolution. It made so much sense. And I felt at peace with my self.
Does religion save you from doing evil – I think probably not, bcoz those who want to do evil will always come up with a rationalization for doing so, and worse still, the rationalization would be in the name of religion.
Even questioning the existence of God is a step in the right direction, but most won't even vocalize it. I'm agnostic. Funny part is, I was agnostic before I knew the definition. I felt like "why does God demand these impossible things from us?" It just never made sense. At this point, the details are not iomportant to me. "Is there a God?" -- That question is too big for man to answer. Because it can only be answered by 'GOd'. And I haven't seen him. So......
Yet there is nothing wrong at poking fun at the absurb jewish, xtian, islamic concepts of "god". There is no more evidence to support the existence of the toothfairy, santa claus, or batman than there is to support the existence of any gods or goddesses. If an adult told people that he believed in the toothfairy and that everyone must believe and went around preaching about the existence of the toothfairy we all would know he is irrational, yet when someone states that it is irrational to believe in the sadist god of jews, xtians, and muslims that person is the one all theists unite against.
Mr. James Martin is wrong. It makes more sense to go after the problem, which is religion, instead of the stupid mythical deity at the core of some religions. The mythical god does not protect pedophiles, the catholic church does. The mythical god does not corrupt politicians, religion does. The mythical god does not corrupt and degrade science classes, many religious people do by forcing religious nonsense into the science classrooms.
@Mike,
Happily, I use neither Twitter nor Facebook. I like interacting with people the old fashioned way, and I feel no great compulsion to tell everyone what I'm doing at every waking moment of the day. This is quite different from Islam, which has rather distinct prayer schedules, protocols, and instructions. I also don't use Pinterest. Tried it...didn't see the point. Try that with your Sunday worship...it's not really optional in most folks minds. Again, the Internet is not a church. It just IS.
The Web is not biased for exactly the reason you mention...everyone gets to see all sides, IF they choose to look. Why is an Atheist on a belief blog, for example? Because I want to know how theists think, and why they believe what they do. In church, you're TOLD what to believe...you're not encouraged to make up your own mind about which commandments seem silly (hint: there are 4 of them), or whether or not a talking snake seems rational.
And yes, I'm well aware that the Internet is hardware. Pointless comment, but thanks for sharing.
Finally, EVERYONE ON EARTH has an agenda of some sort. So what? The critical issue is that groups like Wallbuilders and other belief-based organizations want to impose their agenda on me and my family at school, at work, in the law books, and in politics. Not only is this logically and morally repugnant, but it really does violate my freedom FROM religion. And that, Mike, is my point. The Internet is a nice embodiment of freedom, and as such it's a pretty good proxy for an Atheist church. I just prefer that folks not use the term "church".
The commentary on this blog is proof once again that the Internet is the church for Atheists.
Can I get a God Damn!
No, it is just a blog
And it's the steak house for vegetarians, the abortion clinic for prolifers...
Unlike the church, atheists don't look down on other atheists if they stop coming to the blog. No one will fill you with false hope that good things will happen to you if you do visit the blog . Unlike the church, no one is going to ask you to give money to the blog. No one will tell you that your health will improve by simply making a request with the web master.
Actually, I find this notion quite fitting and very positive. The internet doesn't ask me for Money. It doesn't expect me to go through certain rituals on a daily basis. It doesn't judge or say one belief is more right than another. The Internet is simply information, from which we make decisions and share info with friends. The Internet is inherently Atheist...it is just THERE. It doesn't promote a particular agenda, etc. It evolves. It develops. In many ways, it gets better with time. Thanks for making this observation...while I don't like the idea of calling it a church, which is fundamentally at odds with Atheist views, the analogy is reasonable.
@exlonghorn
The Internet doesn't ask for money, but it sells your personal information without your permission to pay for the gobs of money it costs to actually keep the Internet up and running. It doesn't expect you to go through certain rituals on a daily basis except checking your e-mail, the latest Twitter feeds, your Facebook status, somebody's blog or Pinterest post, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't say one belief is more right or wrong than another, yet so much of the information is biased in one direction or another (your very post is a prime example). The Internet actually isn't information, it's network hardware (the World Wide Web is the information). Practically everything on the WWW is promoting some agenda (politcal, advertising, someone's personal view, etc.). It does evolve and develop, I'll give you that.
@Mike,
Dude, what's your point?
Happily, I use neither Twitter nor Facebook. I like interacting with people the old fashioned way, and I feel no great compulsion to tell everyone what I'm doing at every waking moment of the day. This is quite different from Islam, which has rather distinct prayer schedules, protocols, and instructions. I also don't use Pinterest. Tried it...didn't see the point. Try that with your Sunday worship...it's not really optional in most folks minds. Again, the Internet is not a church. It just IS.
The Web is not biased for exactly the reason you mention...everyone gets to see all sides, IF they choose to look. Why is an Atheist on a belief blog, for example? Because I want to know how theists think, and why they believe what they do. In church, you're TOLD what to believe...you're not encouraged to make up your own mind about which commandments seem silly (hint: there are 4 of them), or whether or not a talking snake seems rational.
And yes, I'm well aware that the Internet is hardware. Pointless comment, but thanks for sharing.
Finally, EVERYONE ON EARTH has an agenda of some sort. So what? The critical issue is that groups like Wallbuilders and other belief-based organizations want to impose their agenda on me and my family at school, at work, in the law books, and in politics. Not only is this logically and morally repugnant, but it really does violate my freedom FROM religion. And that, Mike, is my point. The Internet is a nice embodiment of freedom, and as such it's a pretty good proxy for an Atheist church. I just prefer that folks not use the term "church".
Deep down inside, most people know there isn't a God. They pretend that they believe because it's a comfortable lie they like to hold so they don't have to face their own death and can pretend that "when things become tough, someone is looking out for me." If anyone was truly religious, they would do the following.
A) Not go to receive medial treatment and rely on God to cure them. I mean, it's win win right? Either God cures you or you go to heaven. God can hardly blame you for following his divine plan now can he?
B) Spend all your time in church and giving away your money to the poor. This life is meaningless right? What's 80 years compared to eternity?
C) You would be actually engage your religion, rather then simply being comfortable in it. Most people who are religious simply go to church and go through the motions.
What I'd like to know is this. What is the difference between praying for your cancer to go away and saying "ooga booga, zoma shrooga". To me, they both sound like magical incantations. Except one is a little more involved.
John 10 should give you a hint why you are clueless.
Referencing a collection of edited, trasnlsated iron age hearsay should indicate that you are clueless, Heaven Sent
@HS: i just love your logic. you're telling people that don't believe in the bible or any god(s) to read the bible as proof that we are wrong. i can't help but laugh at you and/or feel sorry for you. at one time you had meaningful discussions with us non-believers, have we wittled you down so far as to cause your mind to hit the "refer to bible" button? were are the points you would once make? where is the humour? all well, another one bites the dust in the face of logic and reason.
Deep down inside, most people know there is a God. They pretend He doesn’t exist because it’s a comfortable lie they like to hold so they don’t have to feel responsible for any wrong-doing or respect any authority over their own lives. If anyone was truly an atheist, they would do as follows:
A) Proclaim that we only one life to live, to stop believing in fairy tales and make something of your life, while sitting on the belief blog most of their eventful day showing their own hypocrisy.
B) Constantly conform to a modern society where it’s now acceptable for two members of the same gender to mate and get married. Where soon other sexual practices which we now call disgusting and inhuman will be the norm.
C) Rinse and repeat
The more we push the Jesus Christ out of our society, the sooner it will fall. If you can’t see it happening now, then it’s time to open your eyes.
More lies and hyperbole, Ned.
But keep on hyperventilating; I'm sure it's great for the atmosphere.
Post by Ned is an instance of a Non Causa Pro Causa fallacy with additional non sequitur elements, Suppressed Evidence, and Willful Ignorance.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org
@ned: "The more we push the Jesus Christ out of our society, the sooner it will fall. If you can’t see it happening now, then it’s time to open your eyes."
see i was just going to ignore your ignorance until i read this little tidbit of idiocrasy. now if memory serves me correctly, the roman empire did fine until they created catholism based off of jewish teachings in the torah. so i would say it worked out great for those guys accepting your god.
how about the british empire, they created the protestants based off of the catholic teachings, they weren't only beaten by the americans but lost two huge land masses and had the crap bombed out of them by germany, so that went well for them accepting your god as well.
so i would say america can contribute it's success to being designed secular from the start and as long as the conti-tution, declaration of independence and bill of rights stand; it will stay that way.
I am just wondering ants and bees are amongst the most social of all creatures (especially considering how humans fight over petty things). What binds them and prevents them in doing harm? Do they worship too? Oh yes,someone just said they have queens! Only if you can compare queens to gods. Food for thought. I will now spend sometime to see if someone worked on this.
Once again, rinse and repeat. Need i say more.
"Need I say more." Gotta add that one to the list.
Any post that contains the phrase(s) "Nuff said", "Fact", "End of story", "Period, end of sentence", "Come on, people", "Wake up, people", or "Need I say more" is invariably complete drivel.
Deep down, most people think that THEIR beliefs should be what others believe.
Whether you are an atheist or a believer in a religion, you want others to agree with you. All we want is to have others agree with us.
The problem is, NO ONE needs to agree with each other. We don't need to have the same view of God (or not God, in our case). We can get along WITHOUT resorting to "well, because I'm an atheist x, y, and z" or "well, because I'm a Christian, a, b, and c".
We all should be civil. We all should be honorable. We all should be honest. We all should uphold basic moral tenets. I do all of that, and educate my kids to be so, and I'm an atheist as is my spouse and our kids. Until people realize that atheists and believers are more alike than different, that it DOESN'T matter if you wish someone well or go home and pray for them, we will continue a meaningless fight.
Your religion should be like your s3xuality – your own business and no one else's. You should not mock someone's religion or lack of it. You should not be boastful "JESUS LOVES ME!" or bragging "I AM SAVED!" – there is only ONE who would care about that, and that is your God. Why waste time with us humans?
A one fits all billboard:
• There was probably no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• There was probably no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
Added details available upon written request.
Here goes the headache maker.
I agree with you there Heaven Sent. His spam is just annoying and divisive. And extremely unlikely to work.
'Here goes the headache maker.'
That shouldn't be a problem for you since prayer changes things.
As someone who seems to purport in believing in logical and reason, your post flies in the face of a well-established historical record and scientific proof that Abraham and Moses most certainly did exist. No serious historian disputes these facts.
What are the primary sources that establish the historicity of these figures?
Only for the those interested in a religious update:
1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482
“New Torah For Modern Minds
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.
The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html
For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".
Current RCC problems:
Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!
2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Current problems:
Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.
And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
Current crises:
The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.
4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."
Current problems:
The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.
5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"
Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.
Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.
Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!
AND THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD
Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney)
"Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."
Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;
Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).
Jesus and his family had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented. (As does BO and his family and P. Ryan and his family as does J. Biden and his family)
The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.
Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.
Some added references to "tink-erbells".
newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm
"The belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and As-syrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an As-syrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."
Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallu-cinating:
"TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."
And tin-ker- bells go way, way back:
"In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel called Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."
"The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hitti-tes and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "
"The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "
For added information see the review at:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel
Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/
From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.
To wit;
From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:
"Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.
Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.
Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.
The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.
Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.
The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "
"In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM
The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.
With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:
An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,
p.4
"Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."
p.168. by Ted Peters:
Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "
So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.
So we know Cain murdered his brother and was banging his sister and getting her pregnant. We also know that god who created the whole mess was thourghly pis*sed off with Cain and forced him to wander the world. What they (the bible editors) left out was as the population grew, Cain had an idea of how to make a living without working up a sweat, lazy guy. Cain trapped the talking snake and some other snakes and boiled them up to create snake oil and sold same to his fellows as an elixir of life and good for the labido.
Man it is fun making up this BS, I wonder if the original authors of genesis were laughing their heads off when they wrote this crap.
You're having fun telling your father's (Satan's lies). That's the reason you can't hear Jesus' voice.
Now, now HS you know your doctor told you when you start hearing voices in your head, jesus or not, you are supposed to take your medication, please do.
It's rather amusing to see religious leaders like Terryl Givens, a Mormon professor at the University of Richmond, call American Atheists "petty and vindictive." when that is exactly what religion is. Good one, Givens.
Religion isn't a person, it can't vindictive.
Oh ok. Religion isn't vindictive. Ha!
Religion absolutely is people – without people, religion doesn't exist. Further, religion teaches vindictiveness, hate and pettiness; people absorb those teachings and act in that manner to support their religion. So saying "religion is vindictive" is quite accurate.
Maybe he'll finally tell you that you're the tares of this world.
"religion teaches vindictiveness, hate and pettiness; people absorb those teachings and act in that manner to support their religion"
As exhibit A, we present Heaven Sent
Oh Heaven Sent – you a silly thing! my oh my. Hon, people can't be weeds. You need to get a good cup of tea and start reading some better things than you've been reading. Now people can be retarded – they can be born that way, but they can also make themselves that way by bringing too many make-believe characters into their little minds. You know religious people could almost be as strong and clear minded as atheists if they would just clear some of their made-up "friends" out of their little minds. And of course try not to add any new ones in there. The mind is powerful, but it doesn't you know perform well when it tries to confuse and trick itself. My oh my,
Simple Solution.
If there is a God and he listens to everyones prayers.... why don't all the believers on this discussion simply pray to God (altogether now) and ask to convert all the non-believers. That way we wouldn't need to have this discussion at all.
If God does not convert us all, is it because...
1) She doesn't exist?
2) praying is useless – 'cos she doesn't actually listen to prayers?
3) The believers are not deserving of her favours ?
4) She doesn't work that way ? (moves in mysterious ways etc.).
Love to hear from you. Let's have a poll.
@Fish
Blasphemer. You waht to know why, I'll tell you why. Something is blocking prayers from getting to the Lord my God and our Saviour, JJEESSUUSS CCHHRRIISSTT and the culprit seems to be the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who being a latter day GOD is up on the latest technology and screw over the whole prayer system at HIS whim, thats why. Satisfied?
Peters pence: The Flying Spaghetti Monster is not something any Atheist takes seriously. It is used to show you dolts how ridiculous your claim in your imaginary friend god looks. Grow up child, get an education, study some science and attempt to live in the 21st century. Everything about that computer you're using is done by an Atheist, not a christard. Now run along and let the adults talk!
LOL. Not so fast. It doesn't work that way. It's very simple. Let me explain. You need to seek Jesus. Knock on His door and He will answer. As long as you refuse, He'll oblige you.
Sorry guys – but I don't think you are taking my idea seriously. I'm outraged and offended. My bizzare view of the.world is just as valid as yours.
Now start praying.
BTW – my shrink tells me the Spaghettie Monster doesn't really exist. But Santa does.
@Fish
Your shrink maybe wrong, I have a copy of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster by the prophet Bobby Henderson and why would his modern day view of religion be any less true/ridiculous than a 2000 year old book full of unbelievable stories?
PS: @Truth, sarcasim, sorry if it went over your head.
HeavenSent wrote: "LOL. Not so fast. It doesn't work that way. It's very simple. Let me explain. You need to seek Jesus. Knock on His door and He will answer. As long as you refuse, He'll oblige you."
Oh my HeavenSent – I hope people with half a brain don't pay attention to your posts that have so little sense. my oh my. Everytime you say "let me explain" I know you are using this damaged part of your head that is going in circles but not going anywhere. You say "You need to seek Jesus. Knock on His door and He will answer. As long as you refuse, He'll oblige you.""
Well that's just silly and more explanations running in a circle. You are looking for this character in your mind, hon, then you want him to answer and so your mind let's you make up an answer from him, hon. then, you think just because of this make believe stuff that other people with healthy minds don't have, they are missing out on play dates with your imaginary friend. my oh my, girl you have it bad. you might want to tell us which kinds of pills you are taking and what they are supposed to be for, and be sure to tell us if you've been missing any doses. cause sometimes those medications can make a person's head explode with make-believe stuff. my goodness.
"Knock on His door and He will answer"
Can you post his address?
CNN, GREAT! And, you played right into their Atheist hands.
CNN, between your unconditional/un-objective support for Mr. Obamboozzler and promoting the Atheists cause, I am saddened to inform you that pretty soon you will be even more irrelevant.
Irrelevant, just like religion.
i am sure they are stinging from your insightful rebuke, jerry. post it a few more times so you can give CNN more revenue
What exactly is the 'cause'? Considering we don't share a book of multiple choice fairy tales, there is no exact way to say what the 'Atheist Cause' is.
Jerry doesn't know any better, He thinks Atheism has doctrines lol. He thinks, it's a religion!! Yeah, it's a religion in the exact same way that "off" is a T.V. channel. It's a religion just like abstinence is a se'xual position. Atheism is so simplistic, why do people feel the need to over-think and/or complicate it?
Mirosal, we know you atheists are simple. That's the problem.
You still haven't answered a quiestion posed to you before. Why do you dismiss ALL the other "gods" worshiped throughout human history, yet think that YOURS is any more real? There is as much evidence to prove Zeus is real as there is to show yours is as well. Your god is as easy to brush aside for the EXACT same reasons you ignore Zeus.
Mirosal: Don't respond to HS, no matter how tempting it is to put the old wench in her place, it's no different than speaking to a 5 year old child...no reasoning with them. She is too mentally unstable to have a normal conversation with.
@HS: the simplest answer is usually the correct answer. case in point; you look out your window at a bird and wonder "why can it fly?" easy answer it's built that way. lots of people die in a horrible attack,you ask yourself " why didn't any god stop the gunman" easy answer because there isn't a single god anywhere in our universe, or he just doesn't care.
I love how you capitalize "Atheist" as if it were a religion.
But it is "atheist" because it is a belief system that is NOT put forth by others for ME to believe, it is a LACK of belief in made-up stories. I don't believe in Santa Claus, fairy tales, Sasquatch, God, life after death, and the right to persecute others based on their beliefs.
Go home and pray and it'll make all things better, right?