home
RSS
August 14th, 2012
04:54 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Tuesday, August 14

By Arielle Hawkins, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

First on CNN: Atheist group targets presidential candidates' faith with billboards
A prominent atheist group is using next month's Democratic National Convention to take aim at the presidential candidates' religion, putting up billboards targeting Mormonism and Christianity in Charlotte, North Carolina.

CNN: Pope's butler leaked papers to shock 'corrupt' Church, prosecutor says
Pope Benedict XVI's butler will be tried on an aggravated theft charge over the leaking of hundreds of secret papers from the pope's personal apartment to an Italian journalist, a Vatican spokesman said Monday.The butler, Paolo Gabriele, acted out of a desire to combat "evil and corruption everywhere in the Church," according to a prosecutor in the case.

Enlightening Reads:

Religion News Service: ‘Catholics for Obama’ aims to draw key voting bloc
The Obama campaign on Monday (Aug. 13) unveiled its "Catholics for Obama" team for 2012 in an effort to burnish its credentials with a key voting bloc whose leaders have increasingly voiced their opposition to the administration over issues like gay marriage and abortion rights. The rollout had been months in the making and long expected, given the importance of the Catholic vote - nearly one quarter of the electorate, concentrated in battleground states.

Reuters: Surge in Tibetan self-immolations challenges Chinese rule-rights group
As many as five Tibetans set themselves ablaze in China in the past week to protest Chinese rule over Tibet, a U.S. broadcaster said, a surge highlighted by a rights group as a sustained campaign against Beijing's grip on religious freedom.

New York Times: Disney Is Sued Over Treatment of Muslim Employee Who Wears a Head Scarf
A federal discrimination lawsuit filed on Monday against the Walt Disney Company by the American Civil Liberties Union contends that a Muslim woman was harassed and unfairly removed from her job after a dispute over her head scarf.

Huffington Post: Taiwan's First Same-Sex Wedding Held At Buddhist Monastery
Global rights advocates are hoping that Taiwan's first same-sex Buddhist wedding sets an international precedent by helping the country become the first in Asia to legalize gay marriage in the future. As the AFP is reporting, Fish Huang and her partner You Ya-ting, both 30 years old, wore traditional white gowns but opted to exchange prayer beads rather than wedding bands as they tied the knot in a monastery in Taoyuan, in northern Taiwan.

Excerpt of the Day:

Article VI of the Constitution makes it perfectly clear that ‘no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office.’ But when the President pledges to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution in his oath of office, he customarily does so with his hand on the Bible and concludes with the words: ‘So help me God.’… Ironically, the curious American integration of piety and the presidency largely stems from our separation of church and state. Without an established religion led by an archbishop, ecumenical patriarch, or grand mufti, the President acts, for better or worse, as the nation's senior religious figure.

Written by Judd Birdsall , contributor to Christianity Today.

Join the conversation…

CNN: Ryan as VP pick continues election year focus on Catholicism
Mitt Romney’s selection of Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan as his vice presidential running mate promises to cast a spotlight on American Catholicism in an election year when the tradition has already been a major focus. Ryan, a Catholic who chairs the House Budget Committee, is better known for his outspoken fiscal conservatism than for leading on conservative Catholic social causes like opposing abortion and gay marriage.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (61 Responses)
  1. A1Skeptic

    Mindless cultish belief is the only thing that can save the children! Trust in Jesus' army of trolls or be damned! The holy ghost is a friendly ghost! Brain damage saves from sin!

    September 3, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
  2. TUVIA

    B"H

    Barack Obama AND THE WORLD vs the People of Israel

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947by3X6_RU&w=640&h=360]

    ------------------------------------------------

    LET MY PEOPLE GO --- FREE JONATHAN POLLARD NOW

    -----------------------------------

    August 21, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
  3. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things

    August 15, 2012 at 5:46 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs! ~

      August 15, 2012 at 11:47 am |
  4. hippypoet

    absurdity is the mindset of the believers mind and so they produce absurd "evidence" to back up their absurd beliefs and then ask you absurd questions in order to show superiority to you for not believing as they do since they believe you could never answer the questions without the requirement of a god type figure. its a p!$s poor stance to take but many do because they lack the ability to discern fact from fiction. its absurd and arrogant!

    August 14, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • niknak

      And it changes as science keeps pushing them further and further into a corner.
      The current mono-religioins subplanted the multi god religions as man came to understand fire and water and earth were not gods but natural controllable states of matter.
      In christian mythology they have had to re-write the bible many times, most notably the old testatment as progress made it obsolete.
      And guess what fundies, as science contintues to obliterate the lines in the sand you make (ie intelligent D), your book of fairy tales will get re-written again.
      This is because you have been duped into believing in something that is not based on facts, but based on faith.
      Enjoy your long slide into oblivion.

      August 14, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      2 Timothy 4:3-4

      3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
      4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV)

      Amen.

      August 14, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • hippypoet

      1 timothy 2.12
      do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

      yup, love this stuff being a dude and all. down with womens rights! lets stone one to make sure they know gods law on earth will be enforced by men! – in a matter of years the human race is dead due to stupid people believing in stupid things and therefore acting like morons.

      August 14, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
    • Guy

      psaml 53:1 The fool says in his heart,
      “There is no God.”
      They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
      there is no one who does good.

      August 15, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • Guy

      Psalm 19 1-6
      The heavens declare the glory of God;
      the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
      2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
      night after night they reveal knowledge.
      3 They have no speech, they use no words;
      no sound is heard from them.
      4 Yet their voice[b] goes out into all the earth,
      their words to the ends of the world.
      In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
      5 It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
      like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
      6 It rises at one end of the heavens
      and makes its circuit to the other;
      nothing is deprived of its warmth.

      August 15, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • PRISM 1234

      God has set certain order, giving guidance to human race, and His order is right and good. It is through corruption of human character that evil has overtaken, and abuses of God's order have brought much suffering to those who are meant to be loved, cared for and protected by those to whom authority has been given.
      If men were to take their authority as godly men in the church and in the society, if they were men of honor, integrity, of pure hearts and minds, abstaining from the filth of the world that comes through desire to gratify one's own fleshly lusts, what woman would not be glad to be lead by them, being secure in knowing that God has given her just as important role as to a man, although a different calling, and knowing that she is esteemed highly and held in the place of hinor in her home and in society.. But man has forfeited this blessing, and if the church of modern time has faliled miserably in this aspect, and it has, where does this leave the dark, sin infested godless world?
      Alas, we have the evidence of all around us.... you don't have to go further then your local shopping center... It is truly a sick, perverted world we're living in, and don't blame God fora it. He didn't do it, but godless, renegade, rebellious, pride filled mankind, who will not have God rule them, but they surely don't mid satan leading them by the nose, making fools out of them, telling them if they follow him, they ard being liberated! What a mockery!

      August 15, 2012 at 9:29 am |
    • PRISM 1234

      @niknak
      You keep being lead by your nose by lame science of man, who ever learning will never come to the knowledge of truth, because he has denied the One whose work he is supposed to be studying.. Do you think God of all creation will be allow those who deny to give Him credit due and honor He deserves to find Him and figure Him out. NEVER! That's why they can study and spend the wealth of whole earth searching for answer, but every time they think they got some, God will show them they are amiss! That's the wisdom of our God with whom we all have to do!

      Oh, the depth of the riches both of wisdom and knowledge of God!
      How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out...

      He has hidden them from those who are wise in their own eyes, but revealed them to the humble and to those of broken and contrite hearts... But the proud, arrogant and wise-in their-own-eyes HE will leave empty and leave them to stumble in darkness till they come to the end of their lives, and then they will face the One whom they denied and spurned.
      But consider this, you who mock God: it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of living God! (Hebrews 10:31)

      August 15, 2012 at 9:50 am |
  5. William Demuth

    Heaven

    Do you also hear Napoleons voice in your schizophrenic little mind? Perhaps what your hearing exist only because of your illness?

    August 14, 2012 at 9:16 am |
    • Topher

      Do you believe Napoleon existed? What about Julius Caesar?

      August 14, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      Why do you ask questions you already know the answer to?

      August 14, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Topher

      The question is WHY do you believe they existed?

      August 14, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • K-switch

      Well Topher, obviously because I read I that Napolean existed in a book and believe it, that means only YOUR religous book is 100% true. That about right?

      August 14, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • Huebert

      That is not the question you asked but ok.

      I believe that they existed because they are well doc.umented in numerous sources. I also believe that Jesus, the man, may have existed. I say "may" because he isn't doc.umented in nearly as many sources as the others.

      August 14, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Topher

      "I believe that they existed because they are well doc.umented in numerous sources. I also believe that Jesus, the man, may have existed. I say "may" because he isn't doc.umented in nearly as many sources as the others."

      This is exactly what I'm getting at. Here's a look at the time gap between the original and first surviving copies of some very important books that give us information on important historical figures ...

      Bible: 25 years
      Homer: 500
      Demosthenes: 1400
      Herodotus: 1400
      Plato: 1200
      Tacitus: 1000
      Caesar: 1000
      Pliny: 750

      Now, here's a look at how many of those manuscript copies we have ....
      New Testament: 5686
      Homer: 643
      Demosthenes: 200
      Herodotus: 8
      Plato:7
      Tacitus: 20
      Caesar:10
      Pliny: 7

      Yet we put more faith we know what happened in the Gallic Wars than what happened in the NT.

      August 14, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      What was your source Topher?

      August 14, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      I can very easily accept the bibles accounts of Jesus until he is called divine or is said to preform miracles. None of these other historical figures are said to have supernatural powers. Outside of the bible their has never been a doc.umented case of a man walking on water, never even one. In order for me to believe that a miracle happened I will need more evidence than a 2000 year old book.

      August 14, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Topher

      Huebert

      "I can very easily accept the bibles accounts of Jesus until he is called divine or is said to preform miracles."

      Actually, I get what you are saying. It takes a certain amount of faith to believe these things happened. But here's the problem with nitpicking ... the Bible is a reliable collection of historical docu.ments that were written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses that record supernatural events. Do you understand what that means? If an author wrote something that wasn't true, the other eyewitnesses would have called him on it. The gospels aren't very kind to the apostles. Don't you think they would have been barking about untruths about themselves?

      "None of these other historical figures are said to have supernatural powers. Outside of the bible their has never been a doc.umented case of a man walking on water, never even one."

      Exactly. If there HAD BEEN others doing these things, they wouldn't be so special. Jesus was performing miracles to prove He was who He claimed to be.

      "In order for me to believe that a miracle happened I will need more evidence than a 2000 year old book."

      There are plenty of non-Christian sources that talked about Jesus. Would those help you?

      August 14, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Are they 2000 years old?

      August 14, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      Sorry, Walking on water is an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A human being walking on water defies the laws of physics. If I saw it in person i might be able to believe it, though honestly Occam's razor would most likely lead me to the conclusion that i was hallucinating.

      August 14, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • Topher

      Huebert

      Well, Jesus is coming back, but by then it would be too late for you. Don't let the "laws of physics" get in the way when you are talking about someone who claimed to be God. That wouldn't be a problem for Him. So honestly, what kind of evidence would it take for you to believe now? Don't you find the eyewitnesses evidence compelling? There's plenty of other stuff that I think is pretty good evidence the Bible is true, and I'd love to talk about those things with you, but I'm curious what you think it would take for you to change your mind.

      August 14, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      I find the "eyewitness" accounts in the bible to be as compelling as the UFO eyewitnesses in the National Enquirer.

      If god wanted me to change my mind he could preform some supernatural feat and allow me to witness and examine it. preferably with an additional observer and a hi-definition video camera.

      I'm off to lunch see you in an hour or so.

      August 14, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I have to laugh when I see this nonsense about being "too late". Why would an omnipotent being who exists outside time and space have any need to put some sort of deadline (so to speak) on when one of his own creation began to believe? For that matter, what purpose does it serve to give us a choice? Why allow free will? To what end?

      Why create a world, populate it with fallible beings, threaten them with eternal punishment for behaving as the god made them to behave, and telling them they can only be forgiven for these supposed failings if the beg for mercy "in time"? Why demand worship for allowing sin to exist?

      It always looks like a giant video game and your god resembles a 10-year-old bully.

      August 14, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • Topher

      Huebert

      "If god wanted me to change my mind he could preform some supernatural feat and allow me to witness and examine it. preferably with an additional observer and a hi-definition video camera."

      Look all around you. You are living in a miracle called Creation. When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker. A watch is too complex to “happen” by chance. Yet the human genetic code is almost infinitely more complex than a watch. It had to be designed and created. How can you look at life and say it was all an accident? And you have scientific laws that point to a Creator. Now, granted, that doesn't prove Jesus, but it is a starting point. Look at the vastness of space, how we can't even comprehend how big it is. And yet the Bible says to look to the heavens, that they proclaim the glory of God. And this is back when all we could do is look up.

      Look at Psalm 22, how this is blatantly about Jesus but was written 1,000 years before He came to save us. There are hundreds of prophecies in the OT fulfilled by Christ with more to come.

      Is your disbelief really on the fact you weren't there to see Him personally?

      August 14, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      " It had to be designed and created. "

      Why? How do you know?

      You are saying that something "had to have created" the universe, just as someone "created" a watch. You cannot summon up enough imagination to conceive of any other explanation and have to use a tangible object to illustrate your point. Yet you can suspend your disbelief easily when it comes to the idea that a person can walk on water.

      Why is your ability to imagine limited by the bible's restrictions?

      Why is it you as sume that something far more complex than watch "must" have had some creator? Why is that the only possible conclusion?

      It's not. It's just the one you choose to accept.

      August 14, 2012 at 12:20 pm |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      "You are living in a miracle called Creation"
      Creation can be explained without god, so calling it a miracle is begging the question.

      "When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker. A watch is too complex to “happen” by chance."
      Two things 1) Comparing creation to a watch is a false an.alogy. We both know that watches are created objects.
      2) Happening due to natural processes is not the same as happening by chance. If hydrogen atoms coalesce to the appropriate density WILL ignite and form a star 100% of the time. If present, asteroids, and comets will come together and form planets, Super massive black holes will, over billions of years, form galaxies. These are incredibly complex structures that are formed entirely through natural processes.

      "you have scientific laws that point to a Creator"
      Which ones?

      "Look at the vastness of space, how we can't even comprehend how big it is. And yet the Bible says to look to the heavens, that they proclaim the glory of God."
      It is far simpler to as.sume that the writers of the bible were simply referring to the night sky which, without all the light pollution of the modern world, is one of the most wonderful sights in all of nature. But in noway is that beauty evidence for god.

      "Look at Psalm 22, how this is blatantly about Jesus but was written 1,000 years before He came to save us."
      It's far simpler to believe that the authors of the bible knew about this prophecy and tailored the legend of Jesus to fill it.

      "Is your disbelief really on the fact you weren't there to see Him personally?"
      No, My disbelief is based on the fact that the Jesus legend claims that magic, the ability to violate the laws of physics/causality, is real. Until someone provides evidence for the existence of magic, or miracles if you prefer, The Jesus story will remain a story in my mind.

      August 14, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
    • Topher

      Huebert

      "Two things 1) Comparing creation to a watch is a false an.alogy. We both know that watches are created objects."

      Yes, but again, we know the simple watch is too complex to just happen. But we're supposed to believe life, with its vast complexities, was just an accident. How is that logical?

      "2) Happening due to natural processes is not the same as happening by chance. If hydrogen atoms coalesce to the appropriate density WILL ignite and form a star 100% of the time."

      How do you know that? We've never witnessed a single star forming.

      "If present, asteroids, and comets will come together and form planets, Super massive black holes will, over billions of years, form galaxies. These are incredibly complex structures that are formed entirely through natural processes."

      Again, this isn't something we have or even can observe. We haven't been on this planet for billions of years nor have we been able to look into space for that long.

      "Which ones?"

      Einstien's Relativity, First and Second laws of Thermodynamics (entropy), there's more ...

      It is far simpler ..."

      Is it also far simpler to think that nothing became something, blew up and created everything with impeccable precision? Sorry, but nothing is nothing. I don't have enough faith to believe that.

      August 14, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      Topher, just a quick bit of info on the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It only applies to a closed system(the universe), not to an open system (the earth) recieving an influx of energy (the sun).

      August 14, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • Topher

      lunchbreaker

      Entropy is seen in everything on Earth, animate or inanimate. So what am I missing? Not being snarky, just trying to understand your point.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      Let's take your watchmaker analogy. A watchmaker takes materials in a particular state of entropy. By assembling the materials into a watch he has decreased the entropy of the materials. Of course the energy expended by the watchmaker causes a net increase in total entropy of the universe. But the point is entropy can decrease (things moving to a state of higher order) on a local scale.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      "But we're supposed to believe life, with its vast complexities, was just an accident."
      No we are supposed to believe that it arose in an incredibly simple form and, over the course of billions of years, changed, through natural processes, in to the myriad of forms we see to day. Stop saying accidentally, you're mischaracterizing my post in an effort to create a straw man.

      "How do you know that? We've never witnessed a single star forming."
      Yes we have. We have witnessed millions of stars forming all at various stages of the process. Through multipule observations, as well as computer modeling, we are able to create a model that can accurately predict where new stars will form and how they will die, same goes with planets.

      "Einstien's Relativity, First and Second laws of Thermodynamics (entropy), there's more ..."
      I know all of those laws and i don't see how any point to the existence of god. You're going to have to explain that better before I can really comment. If you do, would you be so kind as to focus on the laws of thermodynamics? I know those better.

      "Is it also far simpler to think that nothing became something, blew up and created everything with impeccable precision?"
      Another mischaracterizion. However, the concept that nothing exploded is one of the most mind boggling concepts in all of physics so i can understand your reticence to accept it. But it is still simpler than believing that their is an eternal, talk about an impossible concept, omnipotent, another one, being created everything through his magic power.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Topher

      Did you just throw out random scientific theories and hope it worked, because that was just pathetic.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • eye I rand

      @huebert walking on water was meant for only Person that is Jesus..Peter tried but. 🙂
      he, Jesus also is risen from the dead and provided only one source of evidence outside the bible to confirm his resurrection..
      That is His Spirit..receive his spirit you have your proof... 🙂

      August 14, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • Topher

      lunchbreaker

      Still not sure I understand you. When a watchmaker takes gears, hands, wristband, etc. and puts them together to form a watch, the entropy isn't decreased. Those parts are still in decay, right?

      August 14, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • Huebert

      "That is His Spirit..receive his spirit you have your proof.."

      In other words: Believe and you will believe. No thanks, I require evidence BEFORE believing in something.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • eye I rand

      @ Topher ; your argument is asking people to believe with reasoning's... there are arguments both ways which lead to confusion ...rather than argue , invite persons to seek God himself that is Jesus Christ..for themselves.. He is not crippled but alive...that's the whole claim of Christianity.. that Jesus is Lord and alive ... if he is then he is the very best to demonstrate to the individual his own prowess ... Therefore those who are in denial of knowledge of Christ are left alone to their own ideas.. but those who want to know for sure then they have the opportunity to find Christ as he promises. 🙂
      debate... No Jesus is not about debate but power and demonstration in the Holy Spirit..

      August 14, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • eye I rand

      I believe you are afraid .. that is to believe is to receive not the example of those who struggle to believe.... you either receive or you don't... 🙂 that's it...

      afraid?

      August 14, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • Huebert

      @eye I

      I believe that you need to practice your English more.

      Though I am glad you accept that your religion cannot be defended with reason.

      August 14, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • Topher

      Huebert

      "Stop saying accidentally, you're mischaracterizing my post in an effort to create a straw man."

      Sorry. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but the "accident" is the basic way evolutionists explain the beginning.

      "Yes we have. We have witnessed millions of stars forming all at various stages of the process."

      Name one.

      "Through multipule observations, as well as computer modeling, we are able to create a model that can accurately predict where new stars will form and how they will die, same goes with planets."

      Computer modeling is not witnessing.

      "I know all of those laws and i don't see how any point to the existence of god. You're going to have to explain that better before I can really comment. If you do, would you be so kind as to focus on the laws of thermodynamics? I know those better."

      I'll do my best real quick, but I've got to go soon. First law says the total amount of energy in the universe is constant. So there's only a finite amount of energy. If the universe were billions of years old (or even 'always there') it would have run out of energy by now. It's kind of like gas in your car. If you have a finite amount of gas (first law) and it's running (second law), would it still be running if you started it billions of years ago? Same with the universe. It would be "out of gas" if it had been running from all of eternity.

      Second, entropy (second law) says nature brings things to disorder. Meaning with time, things fall apart. So if the universe we see now is disordered, where did the original order come from? Again, we get back to an explosion creating order, which never happens. This also proves there had to be a beginning to the universe, because we still have usable energy left.

      Do you see how this points to a Creator? There was nothing, then something, but not likely the way the Big Bang explains it. There must have been a creator to keep the order we see and this also points to the young earth position of the Bible. Probably not a good enough explanation, but like I said I'm short on time.

      August 14, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • Huebert

      "but the "accident" is the basic way evolutionists explain the beginning."
      Wrong, Most biologist say that they don't know what the abiogenesis was, not that it was an accident. Stop mischaracterizing what you don't understand.

      "Computer modeling is not witnessing."
      I am aware of that. That is why I said through multiple OBSERVATIONS AS WELL AS computer modelling. Honestly you are just being obtuse with that one.

      "If the universe were billions of years old (or even 'always there') it would have run out of energy by now."
      And what evidence do you have for this? Do you know how many gigajules were released by the big bang? Also remember that matter and energy are interchangeable. As long as their is matter in the universe their is potential energy.

      "There was nothing, then something, but not likely the way the Big Bang explains it."
      Why not?

      "There must have been a creator to keep the order we see"
      Again why?

      August 14, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Topher

      You contradict yourself with the thermodynamics. First, you state, correctly, that the amount of energy is fixed, then you make the claim that it would "run out" after billions of years! So which are you proposing? That the amount of energy is constant or depleting? The second law deals with the current state of matter decaying at the atomic level. You also mischaracterize the big bang as a literal explosion, when it is merely a fancy name given to expansion. Perhaps you should actually learn what you're talking about.

      August 14, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      Topher, it was an oversimplified example. It is more of a function of the energy in the watch. And actually the law itself is about thermodymic equilibrium as opposed to the physical state of any material. But the main point is that entropy can decrease for the earth, because the earth is receiving a constant stream of energy from the sun.

      August 14, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      Topher, I have another question for you. If God can bend/break the laws of physics, then anytime we do a scientific study there is a chance that the results were contaminated by supernatural influence. For any process there is the outcome that would come out of the laws of physics and any other outcome that God chooses. In an intial expirement, how would we know the difference? So how can you use science based on the laws of physics to support your thiest view if the same laws can't be trusted to give the consistent results. By invoking "goddit it" in any situation that could not otherwise be explained, you basically nullify the reliability of any science. I'm not claiming this as an argument for or against a deity, just that "god did it" and science don't mix.

      August 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Saying, "We don't know how the process began... " is NOT the same as saying, "One day just by random chance, all accident-like..." Creationists, stop translating poorly. It's stupid.

      August 14, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Wow. What an incredibly long thread. Since I took the time to read it, I felt that I'd invested enough to add my comments. Something I keep coming back to lately is that no matter how christians or religious people want to frame the conversation, what they state as fact exists only in their own heads. Basically, it's true, because I believe it's true. This probably seems like a really obvious and simplistic point, but I think this is a distinction that we put too little emphasis on in our discussions.

      When you read comments like @Topher's "It had to be designed and created. How can you look at life and say it was all an accident? And you have scientific laws that point to a Creator." There really is nothing outside of personal opinion that makes this true. We tend to focus on little facts like, watches are not alive therefore are not subject to the same principles as genetic code. Or that over 90% of the human body's cells are from bacteria and not gears and cogwheels like you'd find in a watch. But these facts, while educational are only valuable to people that are interested in finding truth beyond their own convictions. They are for people who try to make the story fit the facts and not try to make the facts fit the story.

      And that's really what it's about in the end: Story. Both sides have a story to tell. One side is telling a story based on information outside of themselves called evidence. The other side is trying to find ways to make the evidence fit the story inside their head.

      No matter how they try to wiggle from that, they can never escape the simple truth that what they are saying is only the expression of a story that only exists in their heads. I think it's also valuable for us to remember it as well. For me, it helps me avoid reacting with anger or other emotions because it's impossible to take someone's opinion as a threat when the only basis it has in reality is what they feed to it in their own consciousness.

      August 20, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
  6. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    August 14, 2012 at 5:40 am |
    • William Demuth

      Good Morning Troll

      Another rough morning spent looking for your savior? He seems to be running a bit late you say?

      It must be tough admitting you have been duped, but you are starting to look like Linus in that Great Pumpkin fiasco he started!

      I am curious, just how much longer can you wait before you admit it's a scam? Another thousand? Ten thousand? Perhaps a million years might pass before you finally laugh and admit you were foolish?

      It has been written everybody plays the fool sometimes, but I am really curious about why you seem to want to play it all the time?

      August 14, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Another one that can't figure out why they don't know Jesus' voice.

      And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

      John 10:4

      August 14, 2012 at 8:50 am |
    • Mirosal

      And doesn't THAT say it all? After all, only sheep need a shepherd, because they are too stupid to do things on their own. How does it feel being called a stupid animal by none other than your own "savior"?

      August 14, 2012 at 8:55 am |
    • PRISM 1234

      Yeah, sheep is a stupid, helpless animal. But there is something tender and loving about a sheep, and watching one awakes compassion in a person's heart. But regardless what you may think about yourself, you're one of them. You are needy, you are pitiful, and you follow.... But those who have rebellion in their hearts toward God, He calls them goats. It's far better to be God's sheep then satan's follower, a goat which does not belong in flock of God'\s sheep. You can not evaluate your state of being by yourself. It is God who created you who set the standard, and by this standard you are measured! And regardless of you acknowledge it or not, it forever the truth that does not change!

      August 14, 2012 at 9:09 am |
    • William Demuth

      PRISM 1234

      Sheep taste good. Grill em on a stick, with maybe some garlic marinade!

      I wonder how Christians taste?

      If only the Romans had lit the crucifix on fire, we might have a very different use for todays Christian sheep.

      August 14, 2012 at 9:14 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs! `

      August 14, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • JA

      Well said prism 1234!

      August 14, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Prayer changed my oil. Alleluia, amen.

      Just ask all the buggered boys about what religion does with the sheeps. Why do sheep engender pity and compassion in the religious, and children do not ?

      August 14, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Topher

      What is that supposed to mean?

      August 14, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • eye I rand

      perhaps William, it is because the bible says that God has chosen the foolish to confound the wise and prudent.. 🙂

      August 14, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things
      Proven

      August 14, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.