Shooting sparks controversy over 'hate' designation for conservative group
The scene outside the Family Research Council after Wednesday's shooting.
August 17th, 2012
03:06 PM ET

Shooting sparks controversy over 'hate' designation for conservative group

By Michael Pearson, CNN

(CNN) - It's an online gallery of hate.

Here on the Southern Poverty Law Center website is Blood & Honour, a racist skinhead group with members who killed two homeless people they deemed inferior, according to police. A quick scroll away is the World Church of the Creator, which calls nonwhites "mud races" and preaches "racial holy war" that has, according to authorities, inspired some members to commit violent crimes.

Then there's the Family Research Council.

The SPLC says the conservative Washington policy group is listed as a hate group because "it has knowingly spread false and denigrating propaganda" about lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people.

The designation, in place since 2010, has ignited a fierce debate after an apparently politically motivated shooting Wednesday at the FRC's Washington offices.

Conservatives see FRC attack as part of broader war

A Virginia man who authorities say harbors "strong opinions with respect to those he believes do not treat homosexuals in a fair manner" is accused of shooting the manager of the council headquarters, wounding him in the arm.

The suspect was carrying 15 Chick-fil-A sandwiches, leading investigators to link the attack to recent comments by the restaurant chain's CEO defending traditional marriage and the Family Research Council's staunch defense of traditional marriage.

While the SPLC defended its label Thursday, saying it was about the "demonization" of gays and a long history of anti-gay activism, the FRC and its conservative allies struck back.

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"I believe the Southern Poverty Law Center should be held accountable for their reckless use of terminology," FRC president Tony Perkins said.

In response, SPLC senior fellow Mark Potok said the FRC was looking to make gains from the tragedy.

"Perkins and his allies, seeing an opportunity to score points, are using the attack on their offices to pose a false equivalency between the SPLC's criticisms of the FRC and the FRC's criticisms of LGBT people."

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The FRC, through spokesman P.J. Duffy, declined to comment for this article.

Outside opinions were, predictably, mixed.

Tufts University political science professor Jeffrey Berry said the council is a mainstream, if very conservative, public policy shop - one of a multitude in Washington.

"I'm not comfortable calling them a hate group," he said.

"There's probably some things that have been said by one or two individuals that qualify as hate speech. But overall, it's not seen as a hate group," said Berry, who has written extensively about the influence of ideological and public policy groups in Washington.

Peter Montgomery, a blogger for the liberal think tank People for the American Way, said he backs the SPLC's designation.

"If you ask me, 'Does the FRC promote hatred towards gays and lesbians?' I would say yes it does," he said. "The FRC is not the KKK. But that doesn't also mean they deserve a free ride from being called out on their hateful rhetoric."

The FRC opened its doors in 1983, three years after founder James Dobson, then of Focus on the Family, held a prayer session with eight Christian leaders at a Washington, D.C., hotel, according to the FRC's official history.

"FRC's immediate goal was to counter the credentialed voices arrayed against life and family with equally capable men and women of faith," the group writes in its history.

According to its mission statement, the FRC "champions marriage and family as the foundation of civilization, the seedbed of virtue, and the wellspring of society."

"Properly understood," the mission statement continues, " 'families' are formed only by ties of blood, marriage, or adoption, and 'marriage' is a union of one man and one woman."

According to IRS data, the group received nearly $12 million in revenue in 2009, the latest year for which data is available.

It works on a variety of topics, including anti-abortion policy, traditional marriage, educational choice, religious liberty and family tax policy.

What has raised the SPLC's ire is the Family Research Council's stance on homosexuality. The council calls it "by definition unnatural."

"We oppose the vigorous efforts of homosexual activists to demand that homosexuality be accepted as equivalent to heterosexuality in law, in the media, and in schools," according to the council's website.

"Attempts to join two men or two women in 'marriage' constitute a radical redefinition and falsification of the institution and FRC supports state and federal constitutional amendments to prevent such redefinition by courts or legislatures."

The group says it also supports programs to help people overcome "unwanted" same-sex attractions.

But the SPLC says the group goes further than simply promoting a conservative Christian perspective. It spreads lies in pursuit of its own political agenda restricting the rights of homosexuals, the group argues.

Among other things, the SPLC says the council uses dubious science to convince Americans that gays pose a threat to their way of life, particularly that gays are a threat to children.

In 1999, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an FRC analyst co-wrote a booklet called "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys."

In the document, which is not available on the FRC website, the authors reportedly argued that "the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the "prophets" of a new sexual order," according to the SPLC.

The group also was heavily involved in the effort to prevent the repeal of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy prohibiting military service by openly gay men and women. Among other things, Perkins said, the change would force the military to pay for sex-change operations.

In 2010, the FRC was widely denounced after blogger Joe My God published documents that appeared to show the FRC provided $25,000 for lobbying efforts to defeat a congressional resolution expressing opposition to a proposed law in Uganda, which called for the imprisonment of gays and lesbians and the death penalty for those accused of spreading disease and other acts of "aggravated homosexuality."

The story was picked up by several news organizations and still appears in Internet denunciations of the group. In a 2010 statement, the FRC said that it did not support the Uganda bill or the death penalty for gays and lesbians.

In a statement published at the time, the group said it only wanted lawmakers to "remove sweeping and inaccurate assertions that homosexual conduct is internationally recognized as a fundamental human right."

Not long after that controversy, the SPLC added the FRC to its list of hate groups.

The FRC has been a "font of anti-gay propaganda throughout its history," the SPLC wrote.

However, unlike many of the groups listed in its "intelligence files," it does not accuse the group of any violent or illegal acts.

At the time of its designation as a hate group by the SPLC, the FRC called the label "slanderous" and "character assassination" in an open letter published in Washington newspapers.

"This is intolerance pure and simple," the ad read. "Elements of the radical Left are trying to shut down informed discussion of policy issues that are being considered by Congress, legislatures and the courts."

After Perkins' comments Thursday, the debate began to take off.

In The Washington Post, columnist Dana Milbank noted the controversy.

"I disagree with the Family Research Council's views on gays and lesbians," he wrote Thursday. "But it's absurd to put the group, as the law center does, in the same category as Aryan Nations, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Stormfront and the Westboro Baptist Church."

On the conservative website Newsbusters, a commenter posting as "Blonde Gator" said calling an organization a hate group doesn't make it true.

"Just because the FRC has a mission statement which doesn't align with your own agenda, does NOT make them a hate group," Blonde Gator wrote.

Elsewhere, a blogger going by the name of "Senator Blutarsky" said the designation lowered the bar for what constitutes hate.

"The Great Chicken War showed that in 2012, all one need do is subscribe to a conventional understanding of Christian teaching, and boom! You're a bigot," the commenter wrote, referring to the Chick-fil-A controversy.

On the website for "Truth Wins Out," which describes itself as a nonprofit "fighting anti-gay lies and the ex-gay myth," blogger Wayne Bessen wrote that the SPLC was "100% correct" in labeling the council as a hate group.

"As someone who reads Perkins' anti-gay fundraising letters - make no mistake about it - this group loathes LGBT people with a special passion," he wrote.

One commenter on the site said the shooting "was Lady Karma finally come a-calling on the FRC."

"GLBT people have put up with their hatred, beatings, burning, rapes, murder ... for centuries now," said the poster, writing as "Merlyn." "But the second something like this happen we are blamed and groups like the FRC ramp up the volume of their calls to incarcerate us. I'm not saying I approve of what the shooter did, but all things considered, the FRC got off very lightly."

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Politics

soundoff (911 Responses)
  1. DaveusEricuUK

    So if we are going to talk about hateful rhetoric then fine. I will allow the Family Research Council speak for itself. – in their own words:

    ” Gays are like a gun to the head of America. That’s what we’re talking about whenever you’re talking about gay rights. You’re talking about giving somebody a gun to put at the head of anybody who disagrees with them, whether it’s the Boy Scouts, whether it’s a local dry-cleaning establishment or a giant corporation like Shell Oil.” – Robert Knight, FRC http://www.frc.org/net/st96d2.html

    Let's be very clear here. If Gay Rights advocates ever used the same language when talking about Conservative Christians, Tony Perkins and those like him would be screaming for marshal law and suspension of the First Amendment. No LGBT rights group has EVER used language remotely CLOSE when talking about conservative Christians like the FRC has been doing REGULARY for the last twenty years,

    As much as Michael Pearson and the FRC want to create an equivalency here , There is none. Find me a single Christian teen who has committed suicide as a result of a blog posting by gay activists and you might have a point. Instead Mr. Pearson just looks incredibly stupid

    August 18, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • TheVocalAtheist

      Back in June of 2010, FRC president Tony Perkins praised the infamous “kill the gays” bill in Uganda, referring to it as an effort to “uphold moral conduct that protects others and in particular the most vulnerable.” The bill that Perkins defended called for life in prison for having se*x, even once, with a member of the same se*x, or touching someone of the same se*x with the intention of having se*x.

      The bill went further, calling for the death penalty for “aggravated ho*mose*xuality.” To be clear, Perkins defended a bill that called for people to be put to death for the following (among other things):

      having se*x with someone of the same se*x multiple times (a “serial” offender)
      having se*x with someone of the same se*x who is your employee, student, or otherwise under your authority
      having se*x with someone of the same se*x who is under the age of 18 (regardless of the age difference, e.g. a 19-year-old and a 17-year-old)
      having se*x with someone of the same se*x that you got drunk
      having se*x with someone of the same se*x who’s blind or deaf
      having se*x with someone of the same se*x if you’re HIV+, even if you use protection and the virus is not transmitted

      August 18, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • Chad

      FYI, what was actually said..

      "Does civility require the acceptance of all behavior? Hello, I am Tony Perkins with the Family Research Council. At the recent National Prayer Breakfast, President Obama took the podium calling for greater civility in Washington, which in my opinion is a laudable goal. However, his comments quickly turned to his preoccupation with defending ho mos exuality. The President criticized Ugandan leaders for considering enhance penalties for crimes related to hom ose xuality. The press has widely mischaracterized the law which calls for the death penalty, not for hom ose xual behavior which is already a crime, but for acts such as intentionally spreading HIV/AIDS, or preying upon vulnerable individuals such as children, which has been a problem in Uganda for years because the large number of orphans. The President said that "We may disagree about gay marriage, "but surely we can agree that it is unconscionable to target gays and lesbians for who they are." Mr. President as long as you characterize efforts to uphold moral conduct that protects others and in particular the most vulnerable, as attacking people, civility will continue to evade us.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • TheVocalAtheist

      When President Obama criticized the bill, Perkins devoted his weekly radio alert to attacking him over it, citing Obama’s “preoccupation with defending hom*ose*xuality.” He went on to mischaracterize the bill, claiming that it only called for the death penalty in instances like “intentionally spreading HIV/AIDS,” and was notably silent on life imprisonment for a single ho*mos*exual “act.”

      FRC was eventually caught lobbying Congress on a resolution to denounce the “kill the gays” bill. They took pains to say they did not support the bill or the death penalty and were merely lobbying Congress to make the resolution “more factually accurate regarding the content of the Uganda bill, and to remove sweeping and inaccurate assertions that ho*mose*xual conduct is internationally recognized as a fundamental human right.”

      Ok, so FRC didn’t support the “kill the gays” bill. Instead, FRC’s president devoted his weekly commentary to defending and praising the “kill the gays” bill and attacking President Obama for criticizing it. And FRC lobbied Congress to make sure that the “kill the gays” bill wouldn’t be mischaracterized.

      August 18, 2012 at 12:20 pm |
    • Mark From Middle River

      >>>" No LGBT rights group has EVER used language remotely CLOSE when talking about conservative Christians like the FRC has been doing REGULARY for the last twenty years,"

      Well, we have moved a bit pat those days. And with this attack you can no longer say that no one familiar with LGBT groups have ever done a violent act. As soon as the guard was shot, sadly now LGBTs now have lost a bit of moral high ground in the lack of violence department. Now do they claim this shooter proudly as one of their own.

      Sadly, there will always be those in society where talk is cheap and they feel violence is the last resort. That it would reach society's LGBT community should be no surprise. Maybe its a good thing but I fear that in the end the it is still open cowardice to go armed into a civilian place to make your protest.

      August 18, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • !

      Gays are used as the soldiers on the front lines for the communists that are taking over this country.

      August 18, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
  2. Flinders the Butler

    If I walked up to a Black person, and said "You should not have the right to marry whom you wish", or said that at work, it would be "hate speech", and I could be fired. They are saying an entire class of people do not have the right the marry, while maintaining the right for themselves. That is hateful.

    August 18, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • toad

      It's a slippery slope. People of mismatched skin tone were allowed to marry and now buggers want to get married.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • Moby Schtick

      No, it's not a slippery slope. It's stupid to say, "I get to marry who I wish and who wishes to marry me, but not you guys. Yeah, you guys can't marry each other even though you both want to, and even though you don't have a problem with me making a different choice for my marriage." Forget about hate, that's just fvcking stupid.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • Topher

      They are not a "class" of people and thus this isn't civil rights issue.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • !

      Blacks, gays, white bashing ... all communist bs taking over this country.

      August 18, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • tallulah13

      This is absolutely a civil rights issue. Science indicates that hom.os.exuality is no more a choice than skin color.

      August 18, 2012 at 6:47 pm |
    • pervert alert

      Heart felt consideration of your post causes me to reflect and reply
      BULL SH IT
      Qu eers the people who gave the world AIDS

      August 18, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • Really-O?


      While I agree with tallulah13 regarding hom'ose'xuality not being a choice, that is really irrelevant. Discrimination based on se'xual orientation is already prohibited by federal law. The fact that marriage rights have, to date, been under-the-radar is an oversight that the Supreme court is bound to rectify in the not too distant future. Prepare yourself. In ten years you'll have forgotten that you were on the wrong side.

      August 18, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • midwest rail

      It's always a good day when we get to be entertained by the inane ramblings of the pervert.

      August 18, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
  3. 2012marandalaw

    Reblogged this on Marinchek-Marn and commented:
    What's the Point?No One has done anything about the Skin Heads,The KKK,White Supremacist groups...For Years and Years..

    August 18, 2012 at 11:10 am |
  4. Ramon F. Herrera

    @bannister: "Ramon – Please give us example of how"

    Let's say that Sarah Palin hires me as an image consultant and I tell her "Our research clearly indicates that when you say 'Lamestream Media', far right types (Anti-Semites, KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc.) always make the association of media ownership and control by Jews. This is worrisome, Sarah: you are supposed to be a strong supporter of Israel".

    Note: It matters NOT whether my "research" is true!!

    What do you think she will do?

    Furthermore: Why haven't her advisers told her about this glaringly OBVIOUS fact?

    Big Question: Is Mrs. Palin saying "Lamestream Media" by design or by accident???

    Another example: The "Restoring Honor Rally" took place at the location AND date of the historic Martin Luther King speech. Glenn Beck innocently said: "I didn't even realize the date".

    Black leaders said that this was a slap in the face of African Americans and disrespect to the memory of MLK.

    Is this a case of incompetence (by ALL the Plain and Beck staff)? or glaring hypocrisy, a wink to the racists in the back row?

    Such is the insidious nature of far conservative strategy. They always leave room for plausible deniability.

    August 18, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • toad

      Palin and Beck are filth. Eventually they will drown in their own bile.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera

      @toad: "Palin and Beck are filth. Eventually they will drown in their own bile."

      @HerodotusJr: "Has anyone seen Scalia on TV today? Overweight, angry, flabby, full-of-bile Republicans have a tendency to have heart attacks when something upsets them. Just ask Andrew Breitbart."

      Andrew Breitbart's Autopsy has been released, the cause of death was...

      ... he ruptured a brain artery. You can see it in the video:


      Subdural hematoma. After 3-5 minutes of a severe headache, you'll go into decorticate posturing for 2-3 minutes then into decerebrate posturing, then you sheet all over yourself, gasp for breath for a couple of minutes, then it's all over.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:11 am |
  5. Ramon F. Herrera

    "The US Department of Homeland Security defines RIGHT-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities. The phrase is also used to describe support for ethnic nationalism. (ie: anti-immigrants)"


    August 18, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera

      Let's hear it from the horse's mouth, as it were:

      Interviewer: "Why do you hate Mexicans?"
      Tea Party Member: "Because they are filthy, stinky ANIMALS!!!"


      August 18, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera


      August 18, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera

      "Tea Party movement full of racists and conspiracists according to FOX poll"


      August 18, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera

      [Video]: New AZ Immigration Law Ties to White Supremacists

      http://www.economicrefugee.net/new-az-immigration-law-ties-to-white-supremacists/ (2 videos)

      August 18, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • bannister

      But wait a minute – the SPLC are ethnic nationalists too! They are ethnic nationalists for Israel!

      And wait again! The Dali Lama is an ethnic nationalist for Tibet and the Tibetan PEOPLE (who he doesn't want to see mixed with the Chinese people)

      And wait once more! The MEXICAN government (that would be your people Ramon) are ethnic nationalists as well who DEFEND THEIR BORDERS and throw illegal immigrants into JAIL!

      You see Ramon? Ethnic nationalism is just basic human nature. It's only WHITE nations who have been tolerant enough to allow millions of "others" into their countries and now they are paying the price for their kind hearted nature...

      August 18, 2012 at 11:14 am |
  6. KansasMatt

    "I believe the Southern Poverty Law Center should be held accountable for their reckless use of terminology," FRC president Tony Perkins said.

    The FRC should be held accountable for all the thousands of gays every year who are killed by the reckless use of anti-gay terminology in their propaganda. Gay people are dying every day because of anti-gay bigotry.

    August 18, 2012 at 10:59 am |
  7. Ramon F. Herrera

    "The Left hates ideas (which is fine!!!)...
    ... the Right, people"

    August 18, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Let's be fair to the Right, Ramon. Disdain and disregard do not sum up to hatred, though they do hate some.

      August 18, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • bannister

      Ramon, you paint a cartoon picture of the "Right".

      Conservatism does not "hate" people, conservatism simply means the limitation of government. If Christians want to exclude gays, that's their right to do so.

      I find that the Left is extremely intolerant and often HATES people like Sarah Palin with a passion and often talk of violence against conservatives. The Occupy protests had thousands of arrests – the Tea Party protests had ZERO.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera

      I never claimed that ALL those on the right are hateful individuals. Racists and haters are a (powerful) minority. See Michelle Bachmann, Limbaugh, Palin...

      August 18, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • bannister

      The Left is full of hatred.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera

      @bannister: "The Left is full of hatred."

      Not toward people. That kind of hatred is almost exclusively on YOUR side.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • bannister

      Ramon – Please give us example of how Bachman, Palin and Limbaugh are anymore "hateful" than other partisan commentators such as say, Bill Maher or Keith Olbermann. Please Ramon, give us some specific examples...

      August 18, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Palin, Limbaugh, etc use their belief to hate people...Maher, etc hate the belief not the people.

      August 18, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
  8. Ramon F. Herrera

    One wonders: Which is the party where hatred is most concentrated and distilled?

    The only ones qualified to make a statement are the victims of prejudice, persecution and racism themselves. Let's ask them, shall we?

    Here's their response:

    – Black folks voted for Obama, by a 96% margin.
    – Jewish folks voted for Obama, by a 75% margin.
    – Hispanic folks voted for Obama, by a 66% margin.
    – Asian folks voted for Obama, by a 63% margin.
    – Gay folks voted for Obama, by an unknown margin.

    ps: Oh, I almost forgot the largest minority of all:


    August 18, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • bannister

      MILLIONS of women hate Obama. I know many of them...

      August 18, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
  9. Hypatia

    they reap what they have sown

    August 18, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Fellow Ozians

      Yes, Goodness knows
      The Wicked's lives are lonely
      Goodness knows
      The Wicked cry alone
      Nothing grows for the Wicked
      They reap only
      What they sow

      August 18, 2012 at 10:46 am |
  10. bannister

    Here's the short version –

    The FRC is Christian. The SPLC is Jewish.

    And THAT is the real conflict. The secular Jews who run the SPLC absolutely despise traditional Christianity and label the FRC a "hate group" to marginalize them. This is a religious, cultural war that is centuries old – and the Christians don't even realize it's going on.

    August 18, 2012 at 10:12 am |
  11. Rudedog

    using religion as an excuse for hate is not natural.

    August 18, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Ronald Regonzo

      Claiming hate every time someone utters a Truth is not an excuse either.

      August 18, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • Manda

      Unfortunately, using religion as an excuse for hate is as natural as the day is long. It seems to be one of the primary functions of religion around the world.

      August 18, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • Moby Schtick

      Eternal torture isn't natural. What kind of fvckwad deity makes math and chemistry so obvious that everyone MUST use the same rules but won't clear up the billions of points of confusion over his own nature and desires–but then punishes you eternally if you get it "wrong?"

      August 18, 2012 at 10:52 am |
  12. captain america

    I'm an as.shole. It's my sign.

    August 18, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • captain america

      You can say ass hole on theses blogs you ass hole. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • toad

      That's asshole as in you are an unwiped but not virginal asshole captain america.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:16 am |
  13. TruthPrevails :-)

    Just to hopefully shut CA up and prove how delusional 'it' is...that it really is clueless and has no idea as to what it speaks:
    The U.S. and Canada enjoy an economic part nership uniq ue in the world. The two nations share the world's largest and most comprehensive trading relationship, which su pports millions of jobs in each country. The relationship between the United States and Canada is the closest and most exte nsive in the world. It is reflected in the sta ggering volume of bila teral trade–the equi valent of $1.5 billion a day in goods–as well as in people-to-people contact. About 300,000 people cross the shared border every day.

    August 18, 2012 at 9:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I'd be surprised if anyone has ever taken that troll seriously. Maybe we should think of him as a sort of rodeo clown.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Tom Tom: True enough. I don't pick on your country per say just the belief of some of its citizens but I do that here also. I happen to respect people until given reason not to.

      August 18, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • captain america

      You being an ass hole does not rise to the level of international politics. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • Ronald Regonzo

      @tom tom
      I take national security and Americanism very seriously as well as Truth, Justice and the American way . Captain America exposes foreign adventurism against our country as foreign atheist/ ho mo se xuals try to undermine US. God bless America for Americans by Americans !

      August 18, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Was that my sign, Ronald?

      August 18, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Ronald: What threat are we to you?? We're not your worry idiot!!! In case you failed to comprehend the article, we are your largest ally!! Now the fact that you have stood up for Captain America speaks to your lack of intellect.

      August 18, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
  14. Chad

    So apparently anyone that disagrees with you is a "hate group"?

    that's how it works?

    Sort of like, if a law is passed that you disagree with, just label it a violation of civil rights (after all, since all morality is subjective, there is no such thing as "right" and "wrong", just opinions, EVERY law you dont like is an imposition of someone elses morality and therefor a violation of a civil right).

    And, try not to think about the inconsistency(illustrated here with the criminal acts of the SPLC) of your position when you're the one imposing your morality on other people. After all, the detestability of their viewpoint makes it absolutely fine, right?

    August 18, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      You hate sin don't you Chad? Don't all Christians hate sin? Your definition of sin could make you a member of a hate group.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:03 am |
    • Hank Biddle

      "So apparently anyone that disagrees with you is a "hate group"? that's how it works?"

      No, any group that seeks to remove natural and civil rights from another group, while also seeking to dehumanize them is a hate group. It never fails to amaze me how people of certain race and religious groups that where once so wrongfully oppressed feel the need to jump on the bandwagon and oppress others.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Chad: Anyone who denies equal rights to all based strictly on belief in an unproven deity/2000 year old outdated book is hateful. If you didn't have your buybull, what would be your personal reason for hating gays and denying them rights? Do not use your buybull or resort to it for an answer...I'm guessing you're not capable of coming up with one reason outside of the fact that apparently your imaginary friend told these sheep herding uneducated men to write some horrific stories. It's all mind control and only the weak minded are victim to it.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:29 am |
    • captain america

      liar prevails spouts foreign bull sh it as if it had a voice in America – news flash it doesn't. it doesn't even have a voice in its own country. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      CA: I was not speaking to you!! You are a rude little child and need to learn some manners!!! Go away now little one, the adults are speaking!

      August 18, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • captain america

      You shouldn't be speaking to anyone unless you identify yourself as an agent of a foreign power here to undermine the values America is based upon. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Chad

      @Hank Biddle, TruthPrevails 🙂 " any group that seeks to remove natural and civil rights from another group"

      @Chad "that nonsense approach was addressed in root post.. "[any position you disagree with] just label it a violation of civil rights (after all, since all morality is subjective, there is no such thing as "right" and "wrong", just opinions, EVERY law you dont like is an imposition of someone elses morality and therefor a violation of a civil right).

      funny that you appeal to a "natural" "law"

      as a moral relativist.. why in the world are you appealing to a natural law??? you DONT BELIEVE IN THAT..

      Natural law, or the law of nature, is a system of law that is purportedly determined by nature, and thus universal.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • Crash Bang Wallop

      Ronald Regonzo

      @tom tom
      I take national security and Americanism very seriously as well as Truth, Justice and the American way . Captain America exposes foreign adventurism against our country as foreign atheist/ ho mo se xuals try to undermine US. God bless America for Americans by Americans !
      So my gay cousin who has had two tours of Afganistan is not American because he is gay ?
      You are one twisted little jerk.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      CA: So American values include hate-filled losers like you and your boyfriend Ronald??

      August 18, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      If a group spreads lies in order to foster feelings of fear, anger and hatred about another group, they must be considered to have hate as their primary mission, thus they can be called a hate group.

      If a group seeks to deny basic civil and human rights to another group, based solely on something that they dislike about that group, they are attempting to legislate their dislike, thus they can be called a hate group.

      No gay person is going to try to force you to be gay. No atheist is going to attempt to pass laws to force you to abandon your faith. None of us are demanding that your marriage be denied or your family torn apart.

      Therein lies the difference.

      August 18, 2012 at 12:41 pm |
  15. cruciallink

    All the SLPC needs to succeed in this world is for good men and women to be silent and do nothing.

    August 18, 2012 at 8:52 am |
  16. Groo22

    They are a hate group and need to go on the FBI watch list for terrorists. Also CNN you need to check your censorship, it keeps telling me I already posted this and it never posted.

    August 18, 2012 at 8:01 am |
    • .

      All propaganda associating Nazis with Christians. Hey, bring it to Jerry Springer, he loves all the actors he has on his show.

      August 18, 2012 at 8:48 am |
    • joemygod

      I hate to break it to you, but the FBI works hand-in-hand with the SPLC, who has provided the federal government with crucial intelligence on dangerous hate groups for decades.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:28 am |
    • Crash Bang Wallop

      Got to love these Christian Nazi's.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:54 am |
  17. Groo22

    They are a hate group and need to go on the FBI watch list for terrorists.

    August 18, 2012 at 8:00 am |
    • .

      You should be on their watch list with the propaganda your spreading.

      August 18, 2012 at 8:49 am |
  18. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    August 18, 2012 at 7:00 am |
    • truth be told

      It is good to know that the reprobates will wake up log on and be confronted with wonderful truths.

      August 18, 2012 at 7:19 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Still sounding like the poster child for the crazy house...prayer is a placebo, only good for making the person say the prayer feel good and letting them be lazy. You pray while we think for you!

      August 18, 2012 at 7:47 am |
    • captain america

      Try what you call thinking in your own country we do not need your qu eer/ atheist bull sh it here. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 8:19 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      CA: Get the fuck off of the internet...an Atheist is responsible for it not a christard. As for my opinion-freedom of speech loser...deal with it and stop thinking you have a clue when your brain is composed of one cell! Your country has a double 'A' credit rating, we have a triple 'A' credit rating; our country is your countries largest ally. Now run along back to the dungeon before your Mommy/Sister wakes up and beats you senseless for being the little heathen you are.

      August 18, 2012 at 8:52 am |
    • captain america

      Americans have freedom of speech not third world flunkies, you do not have freedom of speech in your own country, we have the freedom here to tell you off, we do not need qu eers or atheists so keep it to yourself. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      CA: Where the fuck do you get off thinking we're a 3rd world country?
      Once again, we are far more secular than your country (a country that doesn't even like you...I understand that Islam is looking for you to be a suicide bomber). We are your countries largest ally and at this point one of your countries largest importer/exporter.
      Freedom of speech means just that...get over yourself and get an education. You are a waste of human flesh!

      August 18, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • captain america

      You have been a third world country since we kicked your ass in 1812. Besides which the problem is with you, not your third world nation status.There's your sign.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:28 am |
    • captain america

      We have freedom of speech – you don't. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 9:29 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      CA: You're a fucking idiot!!! This is 2012, not 1812...try living in the present!! We will continue to voice your opinion, so if you don't like it you are free to leave the site and bring peace to us all!! Once again your own country hates you...time for you to fly and locate one that supports your idiocy!! There's your sign! Now be a good little troll and run back to the asylum, they have your meds ready for you loser!!

      August 18, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • captain america

      Only those who hate Truth voice an opinion against captain america and we know how respected the 1% of America that is qu eer /atheist is. Foreign bull sh it rates way lower than our own and are own are totally worthless. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Celery Stalks At Midnight

      Truth Prevails,

      I know that it's hard to ignore "captain america" (etc., etc.). You do a good job at parrying with him once in a while. Please do not take the exudate of that bitter root vegetable with any kind of seriousness. He certainly does not speak for normal, rational U.S. citizens.

      August 18, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Celery Stalks At Midnight: I know it is not all of you. It just seems that CA will never comprehend the basics. I don't attack your country as a whole, just the absurd beliefs but I attack those same beliefs in Canada.

      August 18, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
  19. Kalashnikova

    Nobody in the Westboro Baptist Church has committed murder, either, and they've got absolutely no clout. Perkins' little gig is less outre, but more damaging in the long run.

    August 18, 2012 at 6:48 am |
    • truth be told

      Truth hurts no one but the transgressors. In the long run America would be a better country without atheists/ho mo se xuals.

      August 18, 2012 at 7:21 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      truth (actual lies): Neither of the two groups you mentioned do harm. Homosexuality is normal regardless of what your one celled brain allows you to think. Atheists are not harming you with anything more than reality and if you hate us so much, turn off your computer and disconnect all power or bow down and thank us-without Atheists you'd have none of it!! Your hypocrisy and hate filled heart will get you a ticket straight to your imaginary friends imaginary arch enemies home (at least that is what you believe happens to people who are hate filled).

      August 18, 2012 at 7:51 am |
    • captain america

      You once again admit your handle is lies. No one wants your opinion in your own country and it is worth less than dog sh it here. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 8:21 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      This country looks like pisshole Murica whenever captain america comes along. There's your sign.

      August 18, 2012 at 8:34 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Tom Tom: CA never has anything of use to add to these boards. 'It' is an xenophobic freak of nature who is scared easily by reality. Hasn't frightened us off yet, now will it ever. Although I think it is in seriously need of some heavy meds and a dictionary....the word 'international' is not within this idiots vocabulary. The more it posts the hate filled it proves itself to be. Some day it will realize the importance of our countries to each other. Until then you can't change stupid.

      August 18, 2012 at 8:48 am |
    • captain america

      It appears that Truth cuts deep when you expose qu eer atheist type for the frauds they are. Truth hurts you liar prevails. Read two verses and call someone who gives a sh it. There's your sign.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:07 am |
    • captain america

      Lets not forget when canada hung the American freedom fighters. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 10:25 am |
  20. lastofall

    Continued from last comment: And although they have no intention to repent of defending sin, yet we which do believe shall hope and wish with god that none [who are in the state of unbelief] should perish, but would rather come to repentance. It is a matter of our prayer to God, that if He will, give to them the knowledge of the truth, that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil. Nevertheless repentance is voluntary, therefore shall each of us receive exactly what we deserve, and if we repent not, shall be without excuse.

    August 18, 2012 at 4:03 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      You're just another one not capable of thinking for yourself.

      August 18, 2012 at 7:53 am |
    • Mirosal

      lastofall just doesn't get it. According to its own doctrine, this "god" of his (or hers) already knows what everyone is going to do, so almost begging us to repent or suffer makes no dofference. Imagine.. a 28 BILLION light-year across universe, and this paultry deity is so concerned about our little rock in space. Gee aren't we just so special!!! Like it wouldn't have better things to do in running a universe other than worrying about who beds whom on this one small world out of thousands just in our ssector ofthe galaxy lol. Sounds kinda insignificant now doesn't it? So if your "god" isn't too worried about it, why are you fundies so worked up about it?

      August 18, 2012 at 8:12 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I would give this God more credit. If it is actually the creator of the Universe then it may not be too much to expect that it can address every detail of the Universe and know and require things of everyone in it. What's lacking is evidence that there is a creator or any sort of god that interacts with anything in the Universe (including paltry us).

      August 18, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • Mirosal

      if it is a "god" or a "creator", and it created this Universe, WHAT could it possibly require from us? If "it" could create a universe, wouldn't it be able to take care of its own needs as well? (Sorry for misspelling 'paultry' I don't have a spell-check on this work computer)

      August 18, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I don't know, Mirosal. If it winds us up it may want us to do something. To be entertaining?

      August 18, 2012 at 8:38 am |
    • Mirosal

      if that's the case, then this "god" is by far the most petty and arrogant being of all time lol Let's look at it this way .. the believers are the actors in a vaudeville comedy show, the Atheists are the audeince. But the believers are like any other Hollywood actor and high on something, and they start to think that "Hey, maybe it's all real, man!!", while us in the audience can see it for the farce it really is.

      August 18, 2012 at 8:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      That is an interesting thing about the God of the Bible. There is a strong implication that it needs an audience. Why does it do what it does? So that its glory can be seen by ... who, exactly? Not by us. We're the players, not the audience.

      August 18, 2012 at 8:58 am |
    • captain america

      Bull sh it and bullies just go together, mirisap liar prevails and tom tom the drum beater all in one place. Trifecta of crap with apologies extended to crap for putting it with those three. There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 9:04 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Crap is important to captain america. I think he really really needs to take one. Poor guy.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:14 am |
    • captain america

      Bite me. captain america calls it as it is.There's your sign

      August 18, 2012 at 9:25 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      CA hasn't made it past 2nd grade...its opinion is no more worthy to society than that of its imaginary friend god.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Does captain america ever mention religion? He seems kind of fixated and monotone.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Tom Tom: No Ca never mentions religion, just the same old bs and the war of 1812.

      August 18, 2012 at 9:55 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.