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August 22nd, 2012
06:07 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Wednesday, August 22

By Arielle Hawkins, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: A look into Romney's religion
For many voters, getting to know Mitt Romney as a candidate also means sorting out facts from fiction about Mormonism. CNN's Gary Tuchman reports.

CNN: Ryan faces split among fellow Catholics
Lisa Sylvester reports on the split support for Paul Ryan among his fellow Catholics, including some activist nuns.

Tweet of the Day:

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

Religion News Service: Conservative law firm fights atheists’ suit over cross at 9/11 museum
A lawsuit that was filed by the group American Atheists to keep a revered cross out of the National September 11 Museum is being challenged by a conservative law firm that defends the public display of religious symbols. The American Center for Law and Justice filed a friend-of-the-court brief Monday (Aug. 20) on behalf of the suit’s two defendants, the National September 11 Memorial & Museum Foundation and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site.

Huffington Post: Bryan Fischer Says Todd Akin's Comments About 'Legitimate Rape' Were 'Absolutely Right'
Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association, a conservative Christian group, said that Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) was "absolutely right" to claim that women cannot become pregnant from "legitimate rape." The host of the talk radio show Focal Point said that the trauma from a “real, genuine rape, a case of forcible rape” would make it "difficult" for a woman to conceive a child, Right Wing Watch notes.

JTA: German rabbi criminally charged for performing circumcisions
A rabbi in Bavaria has been slapped with criminal charges of committing bodily harm, in the first known case to arise from an anti-circumcision ruling in May. The charge against Rabbi David Goldberg, who is a mohel, or ritual circumciser , means that the May decision in the state of Hesse has been applied in Bavaria, confirming the fears of Jewish leaders here that the local ruling would have a wider impact.

Bangkok Post: Dhammakaya 'knows' Jobs' afterlife
Wat Phra Dhammakaya in Pathum Thani province on Monday stirred an internet controversy when it released an article on its website referring to the afterlife of Apple co-founder Steve Jobs, claiming the American legend has been reincarnated as a mid-level angel dwelling not far from his Apple office in a parallel world. According to the temple’s website (www.dmc.tv), the article named “Where is Steve Jobs?” was in answer to questions about Jobs’s afterlife that had been asked by a man identified as Tony Tseung, a senior engineer at Apple's headquarters in Cupertino, California.

Excerpt of the Day:

Legitimate questions might be asked, such as ‘If God already knows what we need, and the always-faithful Father has promised to meet our needs, then why bother to pray? Will he not meet our needs anyway?’…The reason is quite simple. The process of prayer is more about changing us than it is about moving God to action. It is an act of worship, whereby our hearts are exercised in faith, not merely a religious ritual or another means to make our personal Christmas wish-list known.

Dr. Paul Tautges, pastor of Immanuel Bible Church in Wisconsin and author of Counsel One Another, Comfort Those Who Grieve and The Discipline of Mercy, blogs for Christian Post Guest Voices.

OPINION OF THE DAY:

CNN: My Take: Romney should take reporters to church more often
Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "The American Bible: How Our Words Unite, Divide, and Define a Nation," explains why "Romney would be well advised to take the initiative – to define his faith in his own terms rather than awkwardly and defensively fielding (or fumbling) questions about it."

Join the conversation…

CNN: Girl held on Pakistan blasphemy charge
An 11-year-old Christian girl has been arrested and detained on charges of blasphemy for allegedly desecrating pages from the Quran in the Pakistan capital Islamabad. According to a statement released by the President's office on Sunday, the girl, identified as Ramsha, was accused by a local resident of burning pages of the Muslim holy text after she gathered paper as fuel for cooking. Local media reports said the girl has Down syndrome.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (152 Responses)
  1. hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

    Islamism is healthy for any other living things, but not for Humans since no other living things give a $H|T to 72 hoors in Jannat.

    August 23, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
  2. Which God?

    @!HeavenSentSpooge. You are one dense old slug. Stuck on this fake jeebus stuff. Get a clue. Jeebus, if there really was such a person, was no miracle worker and was not a son of doG. Your xtian web sites are nothing more than propaganda for the unthinking, braindead fools

    August 22, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

      Isaiah 5:20

      Amen.

      August 23, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • old ben

      @HS: you can't even make a decent Manhattan with that Isaiah crap.

      August 23, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
  3. Doc Vestibule

    "Abortions for all…" (people boo)
    "Ok… Ok, Abortions for none!"(people boo)
    "Fine… Abortions for some… Miniature American flags for others!" (people cheer)
    .- Kodos the Alien, The Simpsons

    A Candid Conversation between Two Species

    The Man: I am the predilect object of Creation, the centre of all that exists…
    The Tapeworm: You are exalting yourself a little. If you consider yourself the lord of Creation, what can I be, who feed upon you and am ruler in your entrails?
    The Man: You lack reason and an immortal soul.
    The Tapeworm: And since it is an established fact that the concentration and complexity of the nervous system appear in the animal scale as an uninterrupted series of graduations, where are we cut off? How many neurons must be possessed in order to have a soul and a little rationality?
    – Santiago Ramon y Cajal, Recollections of My Life

    At what stage does an embryo end and a fetus begin?
    When does the light of consciousness filter through to the womb?
    Do these distinctions really matter when contemplating the sanct.ity of life?
    Personally, I don't think so. Abortion is killing a potential human.
    I don't think that is a particularly negative thing in many circu.mstances.
    In 1900 in some U.S. cities, up to 30% of infants died before reaching their first birthday. Today the rate is .07%!
    Global population has increased from 2 to 7 billion in less than 100 years.
    There are simply too many people!
    Any species left to expand unabated will eventually die off, drowning in it's own waste – and we are well on our way. The species must be culled in order to remain healthy. Normally, this culling would be done by natural processes like disease or predation – but we have largely conquered disease and have no predator save for ourselves (barring statistically insignificant instances like bear attacks and whatnot).
    As unpleasant as it may be to face up to reality, a large portion of the species will die unnatural deaths sooner or later, be it in war or as a result of the pressure we have put on our environment (not just AlGoreMageddon global warming, but the inevitable proliferation of deadly diseases rushing through overcrowded urban centres).
    Think of abortion as a pre-emptive measure.
    So I ask the readers of this blog, which is more moral:
    to condemn a child to a brutish life with an impoverished parent who never wanted them or to abort immediately after conception (a la morning after pill)?

    August 22, 2012 at 1:37 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, put yourself in that unborn child's place. What would your decision be then?

      August 22, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      Moot point.
      A blasocyst has not developed any neurons.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
    • GOD

      +1 for the Simpson quote. Also, I don't exist.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, I can post these same scriptures all day long on this site.

      Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

      Isaiah 5:20

      Amen.

      August 23, 2012 at 10:55 am |
  4. Which God?

    @HeaenSentSpooge; Your jeebus truth is sheer nonsense. Jeebus is a made up myth. Jeebus never, ever did any miracles, then ot now. You are a freak, a diehard, thickheaded moron with a personality diorder. You have a compusive, addictive, behavior that allows you to hold tight to your belief, a belief, btw that is lacking in proof. The babbling book of bullshyte, known to you as the uybull, is mostl myth, not all fact. 99% myth. FAct. Your belief is just that a belief. Nothing more. Jeebus's truth is bullshyte. I don't believe in your jeebus or you fairy-tale book of disgusting gore, incest, genocide and torture.

    August 22, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
    • Which God?

      Pardon my spelling, never learned to type. Posted fast with out proofing.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:43 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Which, it's impossible to take a nonbelievers position about Jesus truth seriously since you haven't a clue to what He teaches, nor, do you care to learn.

      If you should ever change your mind, here's a great site to learn from biblical scholars what Jesus' truth says and not what fake preachers want it to say.

      http://biblestudysite.com/indepth.htm

      August 22, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
    • Answer

      Bible study = retards in the making.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • GOD

      Do I look like I shit in the woods?
      I don't exist. I can't even use toilet paper.
      Yeah, worship me. I fart ghost dust.

      August 23, 2012 at 12:01 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Same post ...

      Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

      Isaiah 5:20

      Amen.

      August 23, 2012 at 10:56 am |
  5. Huebert

    Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association, a conservative Christian group, said that Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) was "absolutely right" to claim that women cannot become pregnant from "legitimate r@pe."

    It terrifies me that some people actually think like this.

    August 22, 2012 at 9:30 am |
    • BRC

      I wish I was more surprised that not 1 but 2 people were that incredibly ignorant. I wish I was even more surprised that one of them was an elected official. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised at all, just very very dissapointed.

      August 22, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      I think the fact that this is even a topic needing discussion is frightening. Rape is rape and regardless of the outcome, the emotional impact is what needs to be kept in mind. Try explaining that one to a child...it's simply not fair to ask of a mother. I don't think any rational minded person would agree with this persons stance or at least I would hope not.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Oh, so you are saying that a child produced due to r-ape, doesn't have the right to live? I detest election time and all the bs that gets passed.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • Huebert

      No I'm saying that the comments by Akin and Fischer are factually incorrect. And thus any belief based on those comments is unfounded.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      Personaly I'm saying that the victim of ra-pe should not be forced to carry the embryo all the way through the process until it actually becomes a child. That while some people do have the strength adn support structure to make that difficult life and decision possible, in many cases it sets both the woman and future child up for unnecessarily painful and difficult lives, and it should be the woman's choice if she wants to go through with it. Children have rights, zygotes, embrios, and non-viable fetus's don't.

      And this has nothing to do with election year politics. 2 people made statements that were stunningly ignorant about woman, pregnancy, and the effects of ra-pe. Their statements would always be ignorant, and always be wrong, regardless of what day, month, or year it is.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • tallulah13

      I've always thought the whole "christian taliban" thing was a bit exaggerated, but apparently, it is right on target. These are dangerous, evil people. They will be the death of this country.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Huebert

      @Tallulah

      I believe that our country is stronger than these zealots. They are an ageing group hopefully they will be gone soon.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • Topher

      "Children have rights, zygotes, embrios, and non-viable fetus's don't."

      Why not?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Blastocysticide is not the same thing as infanticide.
      Do you feel like you're chopping down an apple tree when you don't plant the seeds of the fruit you ate?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Topher, for that matter, how about masterbatory emissions?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, why is abortion an option? Rather, support the mom who was r-aped and allow her to have her precious child. Then, after birth, if she's out of shock due to her horrific ordeal, she can decide with the help of responsible adults, whether to keep and raise her child or give her child to loving adoptive parents.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tallulah, you should really LEARN what the 13 means in your handle.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Topher

      "Blastocysticide is not the same thing as infanticide."

      I don't even know what that is. Help me?

      "Topher, for that matter, how about masterbatory emissions?"

      What about it? I'm guessing you want to know if that is killing a baby. No. There is no baby here. No conception.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, the stigma attached to r-ape is to the person who conducts the controlling act. The woman shouldn't be ashamed or stigmatized by some control freaks actions and either should her PRECIOUS child. The child as well as the woman are the innocents.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:24 am |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      Because there is (and should be) a distinction between life and potential life. There is absolutely no guarantee that a potential life will successfully be born, in fact in the earliest stages it's not even the most statistically likely outcome. I do not believe that that potential life should be given even equal consideration of the EXISTING life of the mother, that depending on the situation could face serious challenges or difficulties by going through the process.

      @HeavenSent,
      I hate that argument. "Why don't they just have the child, then they can put it up for adoption." It is dismissive of the difficulty of pregnancy, and I'm a guy that can appreciate how hard that is. Pregnancy can have permanent effects on a woman, not just physicaaly (which it deffinitely will), but also physical and emotional. And the situation that the woman is in can directly affect how difficult that pregancy can be. Abortion MUST remain an option because soem women are not at a point in their lives where they are ready to go through those incredibly challenging 9 months. Now, if we develope the ability to perform womb to womb transfers, and a fertilized embryo/early stage fetus can be pulled out of one woman ans successfully implanted in another, with no long term negative effects on either woman, then we will have a viable alternative to abortion. Until that exists "just have the baby and put it up for adoption" is NOT an answer.

      Also, not every child is precious. Sounds cold but it's true; our population is not at the point where we desperately need every possible child to be born. Every child that is born should be prtotected, loved, and treated as precious, but before they are born, they really are not all critical to our survival.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • Topher

      No one has answered my question. Why don't the "unborn" have rights?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • Topher

      BRC

      Wait a minute. Are you saying a child in the womb isn't alive?

      So you don't want to give it rights because the mother might have a painful childbirth? I'm pretty sure they are all painful.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      Because they're not people. It's not that they don't have rights, it's that their rights aren't as important as the lives that already exist. Although, I do not put the distinction where you do. I don't see it as born or unborn. There is a point before a fetus is delivered when it is completely viable and capable of surviving outside of the mother on its own. At that point I would consider that a life, deserving of all the rights that entails. You could also go from the point went the fetus develops the ability to feel pain. If something can feel pain an action that would cause it pain must be weighed for value, though that still wouldn't put it on equal footing with a fully formed life (for me).

      August 22, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      They do not have equal or special rights. Rights are limited to those born. The Const itution does not guarantee rights to fetuses and embryos. Were rights guaranteed to them, then the woman carrying them would lose hers.

      We've already had this discussion, Topher. The rights of the woman trump those of the dependent fetus. Once the fetus is viable outside the uterus, the state may restrict the rights of the woman to terminate the pregnancy. Before that, the fetus isn't yours or anyone else's to 'defend'; it is up to the woman upon whom it's dependent. Not you.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You're "pretty sure"? But you'll never know, will you, Topher? You'll never know what being ra-ped and left pregnant feels like, will you? You'll never be a young girl who's the victim of in-cest, will you? You'll never know what it's like to be an abused spouse who's been forcibly r-aped by her husband, will you? No, you won't. You'll never be told you're carrying a fetus that has no brain and that will die within moments of birth in pain, will you? No, that won't happen to you, either. You think pregnancy and childbirth are no big deal because you won't ever have to go through them and you know less than nothing about them. Furthermore, you don't KNOW what anyone else's situation is like for them. You cannot. That's why this is not your decision to make.

      Your ability to wrap your little head around this issue is wanting.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • Topher

      BRC

      "Because they're not people."

      Of course they are, just very young ones. If you let them develop, they will 100 percent of the time become a person.

      "There is a point before a fetus is delivered when it is completely viable and capable of surviving outside of the mother on its own."

      Babies aren't capable of surviving on their own even after a full-term pregnancy. We don't just birth them and send them on their way. We must care for them, hold them, feed them, change them. Even small children are not capable of survival on their own. You see how your argument leads people to saying that even after birth it is OK to kill them? Countries in Europe are already arguing this (Sweden?). That's how the argument goes, they can't live without us and if the woman decides she doesn't want to deal with the child, she can kill it up to a month after birth. Big slippery slope here. How long until it is argued parents can kill their children up until adulthood?

      "You could also go from the point went the fetus develops the ability to feel pain. If something can feel pain an action that would cause it pain must be weighed for value, though that still wouldn't put it on equal footing with a fully formed life (for me)."

      What does pain have to do with it? It's still a human life and person.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      No, I'm saying that a zygote, embryo, or non-viable fetus is not an INDEPENDENT life. It is still dependent entirely on the life of the mother. I consider that a distinction.

      And I am not just talking about the brief period of delivery when I mention hardship. Pregnancy changes the physiology of a woman's body. Some women manage to recover almost completely to the pre-pregnancy state. Some never do. The hormones also affect their emotions, their personalities, and in some cases their minds (my wife's memory absolutely went to hell during/after the baby); and all of these can be worse in a high stress pregnancy (say, if a woman wasn't married, isn't financially ready to support a pregnancy, and is pregnant becuase of ra-pe). All happy mothers admit that it's hard, many will tell you that the delivery isn't that bad, but in the end it was absolutely worth it. Some mothers DO NOT have that experience, can go into crushing depressions (not just post-pardem conditions), and if they do keep the child it faces the brunt of this sadness and can be stuck in a life where the child feels that its mother doesn't love it. The only person who should be allowed to make the decision whether or not to go through with all of it is the woman who is pregnant. Everyone else can stay out of it.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Topher, why do you make the argument about babies being dependent? It is just about the dumbest thing you could say to defend your position. Yes, babies are dependent, but they're NOT dependent on another body without which they'll be unable to live,you dolt. Fetuses cannot be sustained by anyone but the woman; a baby can be fed, clothed, and otherwise cared for by a third party.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • BRC

      "Of course they are, just very young ones. If you let them develop, they will 100 percent of the time become a person."

      That is absolutely, completely, and 100% false. Not all blastocysts (hoping you've looked that up by now), develope into fetuses, and not all fetuses survive through delivery. In fact, the plurality (meaning more often then not), of conceptions do not result in babies being born- even when you look at completely natural processes.

      To make your statement you are either just as ignorant as the men making the initial comments, or you are being intentionally deceitful.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      You're assuming that the woman in question has some kind of support system in place, which certainly is not always the case. Many women will never get over the trauma and will see the child as a constant reminder of when they were violated. As much as they might wish to love the child unconditionally, there can always be a subconscious animosity.
      And is is really fair to a child to give it up for adoption?
      Kids who have gone through the orphanage system are statistically far more likely to wind up with psychological problems, severe addictions, limited educations, criminal records etc.
      Before condeming all women who choose abortion, ask yourself if you'd be willing to knowingly put a child into a life of hardship.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      "Children have rights, zygotes, embrios, and non-viable fetus's don't." Why not?

      Rights only people have rights. A child is a person. A zygote is a collection of about 150 undifferentiated cells cells, it looks kind of like a snowflake, or dandelion seed. An embryo does not have organs or a nervous system. It's bodily tissues are still largely undifferentiated. A nonviable fetus does still does not have a developed nervous system or organs. Their for it cannot experience anything, or exist for that matter, outside of the mother, so if their is a conflict the mother's rights trump those of a nonviable fetus.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • Topher

      BRC

      Life is life. And just because that life is extremely young doesn't mean it has less of a right to that life than you or I do.

      And I'm not arguing with you on how hard pregnancy can be on a woman. All those things can happen. But you can't justify taking an innocent life because it MIGHT happen. And even if you knew for a fact (which you wouldn't) that a certain woman is going to have a hard time, that's when it is up to the rest of us to help her and love on her. Whether it is financial or emotional or needing a place to stay ... You can't be allowed to murder just because life is going to be hard. Life is hard for everyone.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • Topher

      BRC

      Ah, so because there MIGHT be a medical problem murder is justifiable?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Life is life. And just because that life is extremely young doesn't mean it has less of a right to that life than you or I do."

      Yes, Topher, the fact is that it does mean exactly that. Your approval isn't required. The law is relevant; your opinion of what someone else does with her body and its contents is not.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Topher: The usual deadline for an abortion is the end of the first trimester, unless deemed medically necessary (ie; the unborn child will not survive or the mother will not). If a woman is denied that right and she wants an abortion bad enough, she will get it via a backyard abortion this in turn can lead to a great many other issues, not the least of which is a botched abortion resulting in potential harm to the unborn or the potential death of the Mother. If your daughter were to get pregnant by a rapist, would you seriously wish the torment on her? It goes beyond birth...it goes through life. My cousin was the victim of an incestual pregnancy and she can't look at her son without being angry...he grew up seeing this and knowing this and as a result is not a pleasant person. Would you wish something like that on a person?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:57 am |
    • Topher

      "Their for it cannot experience anything, or exist for that matter, outside of the mother, so if their is a conflict the mother's rights trump those of a nonviable fetus."

      Hey, Huebert. Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that if there's a problem with the mother you can kill the baby to save her? In this situation, we should do everything to save the mother short of actually killing the baby. If the baby dies in that process, we mourn for it. But we try to save the mother without going straight to abortion.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      So at the cellular level, what is the difference between a sperm just outside an egg, and a sperm just inside the egg?

      August 22, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Murder is justifiable." Are you another iteration of Chad? You're just as dishonest and ignorant. Abortion is not murder. "Murder" is a legal term. Abortion wasn't even "murder" when it was illegal.

      You've made these same bogus arguments before, Topher, and they're no more valid now than they were then.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      cant respond now. be back in a few hours.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "But we try to save the mother without going straight to abortion."

      Who's "we", Topher? Are you a doctor? A woman? Are you a judge? YOU don't get to decide what is the right course of action.

      Under your scenario, a woman could be left permanently disabled because you are trying to 'save' a fetus. Think that's a good outcome?

      August 22, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Don't waste your time, Huebert. The Gopher will, like Chad, just repeat the same arguments he's already made. Like Chad, he'll twist words and restate what others write to suit his own agenda.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • Karen

      HeavenSent, a blastocyst is not a "child" and many of us are tired of the bs that you post here. As Bernie Sanders succinctly said, we are not going back to the awful times for women that your comments hearken back to. There are enough empowered women and enlightened men to ensure that. Time for you to get with the times.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:07 pm |
    • Topher

      TruthPrevails 🙂

      So because someone MIGHT break the law we should OK murder? And of course the botched abortion will harm the unborn. If were not botched the unborn will be dead.

      If my daughter were rap.ed and got pregnant we would love on her and support her through the entire pregnancy. She would know not only was it not her fault she was ra.ped but it is also not the fault of the child. If she decides at any point she isn't willing or unable to love the child there's adoption. Murder is just not an option.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Bryan Fischer and people of his stripe aren't big on evidence-based claims. Or are they? Perhaps they will define legitimate rape. Then they might expose some women to legitimate rape and others to rape that is not legitimate. Report on the pregnancy rate ... do you feel ill yet?

      August 22, 2012 at 12:27 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      Abortion isn't murder, your opinion does not determine law. Murderinvolves taking a human life, not developing lives.

      You still haven't adressed your COMPLETELY false statement that ALL pregnancies become people.

      As to your question- "Are you saying that if there's a problem with the mother you can kill the baby to save her? ". Yes. Absolutely. Try this scenario. Mother and Father have two children, the second pregnancy is difficult and doctors warn there could be greater complications with any further children. They take precautions, but nothing is 100% effective, and she becomes pregnant again. At the beginning of the second tri-mester the doctors discover a condition that will almost certainly result in the baby not surviving, and that will put the mother's life in significant jeapordy. You believe that the mother should take the risk of losing her life, and taking away two exisitng children's mother, so taht a life that isn't likely to make it can have a "fair chance"? Or would you allow for medical abortion in this scenario?

      August 22, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, when people focus on hardships then that is what occurs. Instead, allow the r-ape victim time to have her baby, time to heal, have responsible adults in whatever profession care for the baby with or without her assistance. Then, when the victim is getting to survivor mode, she makes the decision to raise or give her precious child up for adoption.

      Karen, ignorance is bliss and you were blessed with to much of it. You're acting the control freak for not allowing others to speak our mind which happens, thank God to be opposite of yours.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      And why wouldn't it be easier to allow the women to chemically abort the pregancy at a very early stage, and move on with her life from there, having her own child with the person she chooses when she's ready? Or, are her rights not as important as the life that might one day exist?

      August 22, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, abortion is murder. As far as if it's a choice between the mother's life or the child's life, it was always the child's life that was spared. The mother was sacrificed for the child's life. Any mother will tell you that is what is the right answer. The mother has lived her life, the child's life is just beginning. Read King Solomon's determining which mother was the child's biological parent.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Gee, Gopher, because something "might" happen, we shouldn't conclude it will? How come that argument doesn't wash with thumpers like you when it comes to gay marriage? There, you argue that if gays are allowed to marry, we "might" have polygamy or brothers and sisters marrying. Or child marriage.

      Guess that shoe only fits on other people's feet.

      You're as dishonest as they come.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Topher: Did you totally fail to comprehend what I wrote? The law says it is legal up to the end of the first trimester but not after unless it is deemed medically necessary. That is the only thing that matters here. This is not murder in any way. I highly recommend you look up Holocaust of The Children by Gregory Paul.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC

      "Murderinvolves taking a human life, not developing lives."

      Developing or not, it is a human life.

      "You still haven't adressed your COMPLETELY false statement that ALL pregnancies become people."

      Short of something medically going wrong, (i.e. the baby dies at some point) it will be born a person.

      I would do everything possible to make sure the mother won't die, but I will not intentionally kill the baby. Your scenario says the baby MIGHT die and MIGHT harm the mother. Nothing is sure. For instance, if the doctor says to ensure the mother won't die, she must take this medication but the child might die because of it. I'd give her the medication, but I would not set out to intentionally kill the baby.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      HS: Here lies one of the issues-you tell people to look up those stories but those stories are not valid in any court and thus have no bearing on the issue at hand. I disagree with you. I wouldn't have an abortion myself but if I was told that my unborn child would nor live or I wouldn't, I might rethink my position. A woman can always go on to have more children but her life can't be replaced. Now if this were a newly born child, I would gladly give my life for said child but it is not the issue at hand.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
    • Topher

      TruthPrevails 🙂

      "Topher: Did you totally fail to comprehend what I wrote?"

      That's entirely possible.

      "The law says it is legal up to the end of the first trimester but not after unless it is deemed medically necessary. That is the only thing that matters here. This is not murder in any way."

      If your point is that it is legal up to a point, I don't care. The law is wrong here and can be changed. How is the taking of an innocent human life not murder?

      To those who think I'm wrong and have had an abortion yourself, there's good news. Jesus Christ is willing to forgive that, too. There's nothing you have done He is not willing to forgive. You aren't too dirty to receive salvation. If you want this, what you have to do is repent (not just apologize for your sins, but turn away from them) and trust in the Savior. He is mighty to save and offers it to you, too.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:49 pm |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      That mentality is spawned out of overly sentimental ignorance. Same example I gave to Topher works against yours. Do you think that they childs possible life should be chosen over the mothers, even if that mother has other children? Sure, she has lived part of her life, but that doesn't mean she's lived all of it, or that her life should just be cast aside. Simple fact, you can have more children, you can't replace a mother (wife, daughter, etc.).

      @Topher,
      "Short of something medically going wrong, (i.e. the baby dies at some point) it will be born a person"
      No kidding, that's the only option. But you can't ignore or set aside the fact that there is no guarantee that "baby" will naturally survive to be born. And your response completely avoids the question. I didn't ask what you would do, I asked if you think that the mother should risk her life for the sake of the unborn child, when she has children she cares for already. I know it's a very difficult question, and everyone's answer may be different, and that is why abortion MUST remain legal (within limits).

      August 22, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC

      How many times have we heard parents say "I'd die for my children," or "I'd take a bullet for my children." Whatever happened to that? That's an incredible statement of love. Why should that be any less if the child isn't born yet? If anything, if we're going to be consistant, we should be willing to fight that much harder for someone who might have a more difficult time surviving or is just more dependant on you.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      I will return to my normal rational discourse in a moment, but first I have to address your little spat of evangelizing to women who have already had an abortion:

      F-ck you. Your comment was insensitive, crude, self serving, and proof that you morons who deeply follow religion don't know the first thing about valuing life, no matter what you claim. Despite the fact that I believe it should be legal, I know that my wife could NEVER have an abortion. I know that the overwhelming majority of women who have had them probably felt horrible, made worse by the fact that they probably also felt relieved; that it had to be an amazingly hard decision that they may second guess for the rest of their lives, even if they know it was the right thing to do. And then, someone like you, who has no idea what their situation was, can't even possibly put yourself in their shoes, and can't seem to understand anything that doesn't come out of a book that's outdated and proven wrong disagrees with their actions, but you know that an imaginary being will forgive them if they go ahead and feel bad about what they did.

      And yet, you, and others like you, believe that these women should go through 9 months of pregnancy so the can go through the painful process of birth so they can have a living reminder of what they were put through, because people like you will be there to help them recover. I'd hope the plan is to have someone else there too, because people with your mentality will do a miserable job of it.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:03 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      My wife and I had that discussion when she was pregnant. IF it was a choice between her life and the baby, I was going to pick her, because she is irreplaceble, and there was no guarantee the baby would survive. Now that he is born, of course I would give my life for my child, but there is a distinction between the two scenarios.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      The entire point is MOOT.
      Any one of the mothers 400 eggs have the potential to become a living born person. The intrinic value or worth of any individual one of those eggs is entirely determined by the mothers(or parents..but primarily the mothers) desire to nuture or care for it. Fertilized or not. Conception isn't miraculous and Life isn't sacrosanct...that's just your religious dogmatic opinion.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Topher: BRC has said pretty much everything I would with one major exception. The reason the 12 week point is in effect is that it was meant to put an end to this controversial subject or at least that it my opinion on the matter. It does not matter whether or not you agree with it, it will remain intact. The GOP will never win on this one! I suppose you advocate the bombings of the abortion clinics also. How about you get your god down here so we can make it pay for all the innocent zygotes that die before having had a chance to be born? Did you even go and look up that article by Gregory Paul to maybe see a different side of things?
      In the end, it is a woman's body to do with as she wishes and it is not up to you or the church to dictate in any way to her. Your belief can't be used in the making of laws and thus it has no pertinence in this issue.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • Fast Pass

      Heaven Sent – " The mother has lived her life, the child's life is just beginning"

      A 12 year-old r'ape/incest victim has "lived her life"?! Fine, well then, so has that 12 week-old fetus "lived its life"... and gee, it even gets a fast pass straight back to "heaven"! What more could you want?

      August 22, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Topher 2

      Topher
      "Life is life. And just because that life is extremely young doesn't mean it has less of a right to that life than you or I do."

      Well then, in the same breath, how is it okay that you take so many lives every day and literally live on the lives of others?
      Surprised? You dont just kill a life, you eat it too!!!
      Remember the egg you had for breakfast, the chicken/ lamb/ tuna you eat for dinner. Even the salads and fruits you consume ARE LIFE THAT GOD CREATED!!!

      How is it any one's business whether or not I want to bring a child into this world, especially if I am not prepared to take responsibility of the new life? To me, your God's word just seems another stone age way of repressing the women so that men can control her! A FAIR GOD??? Who says???

      August 22, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      To the pro-abortionists on this site. You want your actions to be thrown away instead of taking responsibility for what you do. You never put yourself in that unborn child's place. What if that were you? Would you want some mature adults fighting for your rights to be born? Or, would you rather have the selfish, throw away citizens get their way so they can conveniently move on? I wonder what would have happened if your parents felt this way?

      August 22, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      The term "Pro-Abortion" is disingenuous. Nobody is out there actively encouraging pregnant women to get abortions.
      As Obama said, it should be safe, legal and rare.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      Not pro-abortion, pro-choice, there's a difference. And if I was the "baby" I wouldn't think anything of it, I wouldn't have a brain at this point in the discussion. And my parents beliefs are very similar to mine, but they never needed ot get an abortion either. If I had been aborted, I wouldn't know, wouldn't care, and never would have existed, so moot point.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      Further I can show that everyone of you who believes life is special or precious is merely on an ego trip. Life on this planet is abundant and varied. The microbial world comprises 90% of the Earths biosmass. Millions of species of plants, insects and animals sit at the top of the food chain. As members of the pinacle of the food chain we indiscriminately consume and eradicate vast quatities of life. We thrive at the expence of other life and the balance is we kill much more than we nurture. You don't value "life" at all. To think that the "spark" of human life is somehow vastly more significant than any other is pure ego. I'm not saying human life is worthless, just the opposite. But the value and quality of the life of bringing a fertilized egg to term depends entirely on the circumstances of the one bearing it. The decision to bring a life into this world necessarily requires a mother that wholeheartedly wishes to do so. Anything less is a disparaging beginning. You have overstepped the bounds of measuring a fertilized human eggs cosmic significance if you believe otherwise.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • Karen

      HeavenSent, you actually dared to say "You want your actions to be thrown away instead of taking responsibility for what you do":

      Well, that statement is actually your religion in a nutshell. You slough off your responsibility to your non-existent big man in the sky and he just lets you go on anything you did wrong. No thanks. I'll take responsibility for my actions. I wish that you would do the same for yours.

      And I say again, as Bernie Sanders succinctly said, we are not going back to the awful times for women that your comments hearken back to. There are enough empowered women and enlightened men to ensure that. Get used to it. There never was a right time for your wrong viewpoint.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Topher

      Topher 2

      "Remember the egg you had for breakfast, the chicken/ lamb/ tuna you eat for dinner. Even the salads and fruits you consume ARE LIFE THAT GOD CREATED!!!"

      That's right. God created those lives and He said we can eat them. He even gave us dominion over other living creatures in Genesis chapter 1. But by your argument you are saying that a chicken's life is on the same level as a human. And a piece of lettuce the same as a chicken's. Not only would atheists disagree with this but so would the Bible.

      "How is it any one's business whether or not I want to bring a child into this world, especially if I am not prepared to take responsibility of the new life?"

      So the child should be killed because you aren't responsible enough? It becomes my business because you are willing to kill your own child.

      "To me, your God's word just seems another stone age way of repressing the women so that men can control her!"

      Women are to be treated the same way as men. The only "controlling" you want to argue is the woman's right to murder an innocent child. Why aren't you concerned about the child's right to live? Perhaps it's so you can be OK with sleeping around without consequences. After all, it's nothing more than tissue, so it's OK to kill it, right?

      "A FAIR GOD??? Who says???"

      What isn't fair about Him?

      August 22, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by 'Topher' contains an instance of a Slippery Slope fallacy plus multiple instances of the Begging the Question fallacy.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      August 22, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Fallacy Spotting 101, you really mean because you can't condition his mind into thinking your nonsense, you are going to trash him.

      August 23, 2012 at 11:00 am |
  6. HeavenScent

    My trailer needs a plumber. My toilet overflowed.

    August 22, 2012 at 7:56 am |
    • HeavenSent

      It must be from not flushing all that weed down the toilet.

      August 22, 2012 at 8:08 am |
  7. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    "A rabbi in Bavaria has been slapped with criminal charges of committing bodily harm, in the first known case to arise from an anti-circumcision ruling in May." It's a pity that Americans have only limited laws to prevent religious people from harming people – and yes slicing off part of a child is harm. What harms by religious people should we forbid by law?

    August 22, 2012 at 7:38 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Raising their kids to become stoned out atheists.

      August 22, 2012 at 8:09 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      HS: You mean raising their children to think for themselves without the use of 2000 year old fiction??? Most Atheists I know have jobs and good educations. Your education comes from the church, thus it has no pertinence in this world and to your little little buddy below...you both need to get off the crack pipe of religion and live in this century...your imaginary friend is dangerous to you and everyone around you!!

      August 22, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • HeavenSent

      TruthPrevailsNot, I haven't the foggiest idea how you atheists don't comprehend how brainwashed you are due to your egos flowing like water. Stroke, stroke, stroke, along with a toke, toke toke, gets you atheists like clockwork.

      Fact, Christians learn and know wisdom to produce righteous outcomes. That's one more subject under their belts than you atheists can ever hope for ... while you are still scratching and stumbling to your parents couch, to do what again. Oh, yes, nothing but talk, talk, talk. When an atheist opens their mouth a lie spews out.

      August 22, 2012 at 8:37 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      "What harms by religious people should we forbid by law?"

      How about the same harms we forbid non-religious people to do?

      August 22, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      HS: Well considering I do not live with my parents, you'd be wrong. I raised a child without a belief and she is doing quite well in this world. In fact she is starting college in a week and she accepts everyone for who they are. She does not judge them on anything because she was not raised to do so. Since you constantly bring up the 'pot' smoking fact, here are some facts for you about the thing you know nothing about:

      1. Cancer
      There is a lot of unfounded rhetoric that states smoking pot can cause lung cancer because your inhaling smoke, like cigarettes. This simply isn’t true. Cigarette smoke causes cancer because the tobacco is radiated whereas marijuana isn’t. In fact, the American Association for Cancer Research has found the marijuana actually works to slow down tumor growth in the lungs, breasts, and brain considerably.

      2. Seizures
      Marijuana is a muscle relaxant and has “antispasmodic” qualities which have proven to be a very effective treament of seizures. There are actually countless cases of people suffering from seizures that have only been able to function better through the use of marijuana.

      3. Migraines
      Since medicinal marijuana was legalized in California, doctors have reported that they have been able to treat more than 300,000 cases of migraines that conventional medicine couldn’t through marijuana.

      4. Glaucoma
      Marijuana’s treatment of glaucoma has been one of the best documented. There isn’t a single valid study that exists that disproves marijuana’s very powerful and popular effects on glaucoma patients.

      5. Multiple Sclerosis
      Marijuana’s effects on multiple sclerosis patients became better documented when former talk-show host, Montel Williams began to use pot to treat his MS. Marijuana works to stop the neurological effects and muscle spasms that come from the fatal disease.

      6. Tourette’s and OCD
      Just like marijuana can treat seizures and multiple sclerosis, marijuana’s effects slow down the tics in those suffering from Tourette’s, and the obsessive neurological symptoms in people with OCD.

      7. ADD and ADHD
      A well documented USC study done about a year ago showed that marijuana is not only a perfect alternative for Ritalin but treats the disorder without any of the negative side effects of the pharmaceutical.

      8. IBS and Crohn’s
      Marijuana has shown that it can help with symptoms of the chronic diseases as it stops nausea, abdominal pain, and diarrhea.

      9. Alzheimer’s
      Despite what you may have heard about marijuana’s effects on the brain, the Scripps Institute, in 2006, proved that the THC found in marijuana works to prevent Alzheimer’s by blocking the deposits in the brain that cause the disease.

      10. Premenstrual Syndrome
      Just like marijuana is used to treat IBS, it can be used to treat the cramps and discomfort. Using marijuana for PMS actually goes all the way back to Queen Victoria.

      (http://coedmagazine.com/2010/09/02/10-major-health-benefits-of-marijuana/)

      There is also the factor that if legalized the drug could bring in $45 to $100 billion per year.

      August 22, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Well TruthPrevailsNot, enjoy your daughter now, for if she doesn't accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior on her own because obviously she got sidetracked by a father who hasn't a clue to what is truth and what is lies. she'll be joining you as you both go the eternal flames. Don't attack me and come back with a smart remark that this is a fairy tale, that's not a threat, that is Jesus' truth.

      As for medical situations pertaining to hemp. List why YOU need it besides being a crutch for your lies tilting your life?

      As for you lack of comprehension to Jesus' truth. Here's an excellent site of biblical scholars who will teach you His truth so you can throw the lies of satan away.

      http://biblestudysite.com/indepth.htm

      August 22, 2012 at 9:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      lunchbreaker-

      Psychological harm caused by routine use of terroristic threats: the threat of punishment by God, ultimately hell, to force a belief system on children and change their behavior such that they will use the same terroristic threats to influence (harm?) others. Is this a form of child abuse?

      August 22, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      HS: I do not need to explain to you why I need it because quite simply it is none of your business. As for my daughter, what she believes or doesn't believe is her choice to make, she is an adult and will make those decisions for herself.
      You have no way of proving that heaven or hell exists because no-one, not even your jesus, has returned from the dead to prove it. I'm not overly worried about burning in any fiery pit...hard to worry about something that does not exist outside of the theist belief.
      I will believe when there is evidence to prove your side right, until then it is strongly held as being fallacious.

      August 22, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Heaventsent
      What's with the "stoner" comments today?
      Years ago, I was diagnosed with an H. Pylori negative duodenal ulcer.
      I was in a great deal of pain, was throwing up blood and bile and lost 25 lbs off of my 160 lb frame in a month.
      The doctor prescribed me a drug that cost $80 a week and had little effect on my condition after 6 weeks of use.
      An infantry medic pal of mine suggested I try smoking shake, basically the leaves and trimming of marijuana plants.
      I spent $10 for a bag that lasted three months of twice daily use.
      It stimulated my appeti/te and dulled the pain, allowing me to eat.
      After 3 months, I was back to normal and quit smoking with no adverse effects or withdrawal symptoms.
      The prescription drugs left me with a vitamin B12 deficiency, for which I still have to take daily supplements.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Ah, I see your point Tom. I was refering to our tendency to allow special accomodations for harm because it was religious.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Thank you Doc! If I must explain it and my reasons for smoking, it is two-fold...a) It helps with the symptoms of PTSD and b) Due to having waited 11 months for a test to find out what is making me sick, it does allow me to eat without being nauseated and suffering major pain.
      After trying the prescription meds and suffering through nasty side effects, pot has given me the lessor of the evils (so-to-speak).

      August 22, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • HeavenSent

      If you don't believe that atheists lying, cheating, twisting and contorting His truth while sucking up oxygen on earth, are not hell on earth for the rest of us that have to pick up the pieces of the damage you do as you scoot down the road to play your next victim through life, then you, Tommie Tom and the rest of you atheists are battier than anyone cared to think about your nonsense beliefs, which are no beliefs. You stand for nothing except the lies of satan you eagerly follow.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, so now you are throwing doctors under the bus? Which is it. Science or God's natural plant. Mmmmhhhh.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • WASP

      @HS:"Christians learn and know wisdom to produce righteous outcomes."

      i love the term "righteous outcome" i think the taliban, alqeda along with other "faith" based militant groups observed by the governement preach those very words. atheists have no ground work based faith, to discriminate against others, we only have science and science only discriminates against ignorance by showing people the truths of the world...........not cuddling them with lies of "eternal life" or the sick comfort religious folks get from the whole " i'm going to heaven and you're going to he11 because you don't ___fill in blank_____ like me."

      the only lies i've ever heard and a lot of them were usually behind the cover of a book called the bible/koran/torah.

      education is optional, training is mandatory and the church has trained you well HS.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • HeavenSent

      WASP, your scientists didn't create pot. God created all.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • HeavenSent

      TruthPrevailsNot, what caused your PTSD? If true, say the Lords prayer to forgive those that trespassed against you, so it leads you not into temptation.

      Amen.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      I'm not "throwing doctors under the bus".
      I'm saying that the medicine prescribed to me by my doctor did not work as well as the natural alternative.
      It doesn't invalidate pharmaceutical biochemistry as a whole, and certainly not the Scientific Method as the most powerful tool we've ever devised for the advancement of the human race.
      If I say that the Edsel was a terrible car, would you interpret that as me condeming everything with wheels?
      Your hyperbolic extrapolations are an ineffective means of obfuscation – they jsut make it seem that you're grasping at any straw you can to try and discredit those who don't agree with your God-tinted view of the world.

      If you see pot as "god's natural plant", why are you belittling those who use it?

      August 22, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • HeavenSent

      WASP, which is it? Weeks ago you were spewing nonsense that Christians are as the KKK, then it was NAZIS, today you are saying Christians are as the taliban. All negative labels you put on us because you never learned Jesus' truth correctly. Whoever preached to you told you the fairy tales, not Jesus' truth.

      Here's biblical scholars teaching Jesus' truth and nothing but the truth. Jesus' scriptures have never changed.

      http://biblestudysite.com/indepth.htm

      August 22, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, I'm just giving you a taste of what you dish out to us. I'm glad you don't enjoy it. Neither do we.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, God created all for a use. Some creations are to clean the earth and the seas, other creations were for our use ... in moderation.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Heavensent
      The KKK call themselves Christian.
      The overwheling majority of Nazis were Catholic.
      "Taliban" has become a colloquialism for all sorts of religious extremists.
      The contents of the Bible may not have changed much, but the existence of tens of thousands of sects of Christianity shows that there are endless interpretations of those contents.
      If the One True Deity, shaper of The Universe, wishes their words to be transmitted and adhered to, they should have been a bit less ambiguous.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • TheVocalAtheist

      @HeavenSent

      The Lord Jesus came to me in a dream last night. I could barely understand what he was saying. He told me to come closer but as I tried to get closer he got further away. I tried running as hard as I could but to no avail. As I was about to give up the Lord Jesus appeared right in front of me, he offered his hand. As I reached-out to grasp his hand it transformed into a claw, a claw with nails of fire, dripping boiling blood. I looked into his eyes and he spoke: "These hands I offer unto you are nothing more than the hands of evil, forever remember this name as I will speak only once, HeavenSent, HeavenSent is Satan, listen with your eyes for what HeavenSent writes was born from the demon souls of all that is evil and my Father's enemies. Listen with your eyes, do not be fooled and harvest the swollen and rotted pulp of vile, close thy eyes and thy ears and you will forever remain in my glory."

      August 22, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • TR6

      @HeavenSent: “Fact, Christians learn and know wisdom to produce righteous outcomes”

      Righteous outcomes like murdering doctors? Righteous outcomes like letting their children die of a curable disease because they were wanted to follow god’s will? Righteous outcomes like how Christians slaughtered thousands of unarmed museums at Srebrenica in 1995?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      HS: Big pharma would go broke. There is no denying that there are drugs out there that benefit people but you initially came on here condemning pot smokers and now you're calling it god's invention...make up your mind. I can tell you that any plant I know of has started from a seed and with due care has grown from there, no god needed.
      As for my PTSD, forgiving doesn't alleviate the nightmares or flashbacks. I forgave a very long time ago but that only goes so far.

      Marijuana doesn't resolve all medical issues by any means but as has been shown here there are numerous benefits to it.
      It should be legalized. Your countries debt would be cleared in a matter of a few short years if they legalized it and taxed it.
      The U.S. federal government spent over $15 billion dollars in 2010 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $500 per second. An American is arrested for violating cannabis laws every 30 seconds. Drug legalization would reduce government expenditure by about $41.3 billion annually. Legalization would generate
      tax revenue of roughly $46.7 billion annually.
      Be it that you believe it is 'gods' invention or not, it makes more sense to legalize it. The only reason people call it a gate-way drug is that if you have to go to an illegal source, chances are that illegal source has access to a tremendous amount more than just this.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:24 am |
    • ME II

      @TruthPrevails :-),

      "1. Cancer
      There is a lot of unfounded rhetoric that states smoking pot can cause lung cancer because your inhaling smoke, like cigarettes. This simply isn’t true. Cigarette smoke causes cancer because the tobacco is radiated whereas marijuana isn’t. In fact, the American Association for Cancer Research has found the marijuana actually works to slow down tumor growth in the lungs, breasts, and brain considerably."

      "Marijuana smoke contains a similar range of harmful chemicals to that of tobacco smoke (including bronchial irritants, tumour promoters and carcinogens)."
      http://adai.uw.edu/marijuana/factsheets/respiratoryeffects.htm

      "Many researchers agree that marijuana smoke contains known carcinogens, or chemicals that can cause cancer much like those in tobacco smoke. "http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/HerbsVitaminsandMinerals/marijuana

      "More recently, scientists reported that THC and other cannabinoids such as CBD (cannabidiol) slow growth and/or cause death in certain types of cancer cells growing in laboratory dishes. Some animal studies also suggest certain cannabinoids may slow growth and reduce spread of some forms of cancer. However, these substances have not been tested in humans to find out if they can lower cancer risk. There is no available scientific evidence from controlled studies in humans that cannabinoids can cure or treat cancer."
      http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/HerbsVitaminsandMinerals/marijuana

      Also, whether or not tobacco is [ir]radiated would have no impact on it's carcinogenic effect. Now if it was radioactive or contained more radioactive material than normal, that would be increase it's cancer causing effect, however, most plants in nature contain some level of radioactive material.

      I'm not saying that there aren't benefits in marijuana (THC / CBD), but inhaling burning plant matter generally is not great for the body.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, turn off Jerry Springer and his paid actors out of your mind.

      Nazis were psychopaths and do not represent the German people.

      Jesus Christ is truth about life and the hereafter. All the phony religions were devised by satan's offsprings who live on earth with God's children. That's what you weren't taught in the church you attended. Look up Kenites and tares. Jesus told us about them in His love letter to all of us, the Bible.

      For your post about "If the One True Deity, shaper of The Universe, wishes their words to be transmitted and adhered to, they should have been a bit less ambiguous."

      Answer: He told us that if we knock, he will sup with us. Which means, you need to seek Him out. He's been there all along ... for those that have eyes to see Him and ears to hear Him.

      God Bless and read that site I listed and get all the propaganda out of your mind. You have better things to do that to listen and get twisted by lies.

      http://biblestudysite.com/indepth.htm

      August 22, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • HeavenSent

      TruthPrevailsNot, I just gave you a taste of your own medicine as I stated before that you are conveniently ignoring. Do you know how to use and not abuse?

      August 22, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • HeavenSent

      TruthPrevailsNot, it does not make sense to legalize any drugs, alcohol included. Most people abuse drugs as a crutch and don't know how to use without abusing. If everyone knew Jesus' truth, we'd be having another conversation. Since, everyone doesn't know Jesus' truth, we have a problem in this world. Now, I don't want to hear all the sarcastic comments on Jesus' truth from nonbelievers who haven't the foggiest what Jesus teaches because, none of you have walked with Him yet.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @heavensent
      At the height of it's power, the Nazi party had around 8.5 million members from a population of around 40 million.
      Bearing in mind that various segments of the population were automatically excluded from the party (ie: Jews, gays, the handicapped etc), that is a significant portion of the population.
      I lived on the outskirts of Stuttgart in the early nineties and even then, there were "Auslanders Raus" rallies that sometimes became violent.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      ME II: I can't disagree. There are other ways to use THC without smoking it. I have a friend who quit smoking it when she quit smoking cigarettes and now makes a tea of it. I think more research is required overall.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      It sounds like you would like to make illegal anythiang that has a potential for abuse.
      Curtailing the rights of the majority becuase a minority abuse their rights is a dangrous argument.
      How do you feel about the 2nd amendment?

      August 22, 2012 at 12:10 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      HS: I hold a job and do not use during the day, that is best left for home. I do not go out anywhere while stoned, nor does AtheistSteve.
      How do you not see the benefits of legalizing this if it means billions of dollars in tax revenue and your country coming out of debt? If it was legalized, it wouldn't be abused in the same way you see it abused now because it would be regulated. You can't just walk in to a store selling alcohol and buy alcohol with being of age-right? They would instill similar regulations for pot. Now I know that those regulations do not stop kids from getting the stuff but it certainly makes it more difficult.
      Do you also think that tobacco products should be illegal? (a single cigarette carries approx 4500 carcinogens)
      We may never agree on this but I feel that the stats speak for themselves and outside of "ME's" statement, which I can't disagree with, I see no reason not to advocate for the legalization.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
    • old ben

      TheVocalAtheist told @HeavenSent – "The Lord Jesus came to me in a dream last night. . . ."

      Wow – how is that possible – I had the same damn dream last night.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:39 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      TR6, when I write about Christians, I'm writing about Christians who actually read, comprehend and abide in Jesus' truth.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:40 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, do you believe that the victors write history?

      August 22, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      TruthPrevailsNot, that's easy. Any woman knows (makes no difference if that woman is your mother, sister, grandmother, aunt, next door neighbor, wife or lover) if she asks a stoner to take the garbage out, mow the lawn, clean the garage, help with the laundry, the dishes, bringing in the groceries ... and the list goes on and on because a woman's work is never done. The answer she will get from a stoner is yup, then wait, wait, wait ....... still waiting ....

      August 22, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      Typical HS...
      I see little point in arguing with someone who is soooo high on Jesus that they've totally disconnected with reality. The only one here with a serious debilitating addiction is you. Get help.

      August 22, 2012 at 12:58 pm |
    • save the world and slap some sense into a christard today!

      TR6 replied . . "Righteous outcomes like murdering doctors? Righteous outcomes like letting their children die of a curable disease because they were wanted to follow god’s will? Righteous outcomes like how Christians slaughtered . . ."

      HeavenSent replied: "TR6, when I write about Christians, I'm writing about Christians who actually read, comprehend and abide in Jesus' truth."

      HeavenSent here more than adequately displays the "duck, try to confuse and run" tactic that is so typical of many christians. History and present att'itudes show us that Christians constantly redefine themselves, often on an individual basis, to explain or excuse their actions and words or to explain away atrocities from the past. One often hears things like "if that person did that, they are not really a Christian" from someone who claims they are the real Christian. It is Christinsanity© – lol. But is it important that others recognize this because if you don't, then you may someday be the victim of that insanity.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:17 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      My partner smokes daily and manages to work out every morning, hold down a job at a major financial insti/tution, be an exemplary parent to our child, keep up with housework etc.
      Richard Branson smokes, as did Steve Jobs, Bruce Lee, Victor Hugo, Stephen King etc etc.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      It's pure concentrated sin Doc Vestibule, but I'm redeemed by my savior. At least I, maybe not you, can get naked and smoke. Where shall we meet?

      August 22, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Oh, Christians play games? As if the atheist that steals my handle and wrote the post above this one isn't playing sick twisted games, not to mention violating my rights to freedom of speech.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      save the world and slap some sense into a christard today! Just because my posts don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm ducking anything. There's a big difference of actually reading, comprehending and applying Jesus' truth to our lives than someone who attends church with their Bible tucked under their armpit, never opened it in their lives to read His truth, but, dutifully listens to a preacher speak man made lies.

      What part of what I just wrote do you not comprehend?

      August 22, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      AtheistSteve, I have never disconnected to life. Just because I call a selfish person selfish, does not mean my handle should be hijacked or insulted by the selfish, self absorbed, throw away playing games to get your way people on this site. Just thank God that your parents didn't believe in abortion when they were pregnant with you.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • save the world and slap some sense into a christard today!

      HeavenSent wrote: "What part of what I just wrote do you not comprehend?"

      Again, you avoid what was referenced. I am not the one with the comprehension problem. If you'll notice, you dimwit, I was addressing how you replied to a reply and I included both parts and provided insight into the obvious traits of christian logic that would explain that ridiculous reply, which you continue to display.

      August 22, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
  8. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    August 22, 2012 at 6:08 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Pray that atheists have their brain cells regrown .. and that they flush the weed down the toilet.

      Amen.

      August 22, 2012 at 6:21 am |
    • EVERY1 HATES HEAVENSENT

      Pray for HEAVENSENT TO DRINK THE MAGIC KOOLAID AND DIE!

      August 22, 2012 at 7:36 am |
    • Ned

      Not everyone hates HS. She may be very blunt, but very truthful. There goes the old saying that honesty is the best policy 🙂

      August 22, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • I prayed you would stop posting this crap

      And see...nothing happened. 😦

      August 22, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Everyone, your parents are fed up. Stop smoking that pot and sitting on your butt all day. Get a job and move out.

      August 22, 2012 at 8:11 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Ned: What truth would she be speaking of???? She speaks about biblical crap that has no pertinence in this world, stuff that was written 2000 years ago and has been proven false. You both need to get off the crack pipe of religion and live in the 21st century.

      August 22, 2012 at 8:20 am |
    • HeavenSent

      TruthPrevailsNot, there are so many scriptures pertaining to man's vanity. I don't believe I could list them all here. None the less. Vanity of man falls while ... now pay attention to line 31.

      Mark 13:30-32
      30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
      31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
      32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

      Amen.

      August 22, 2012 at 8:41 am |
    • Ned

      TP, if it was proven false, I would be an atheist today and so many others too. But it is not and never will be. I thought your kind always said "ohmagherd, you can't prove a nerghative". Now, your're just being bipolar. To much THC and not enough cannabinoids?

      August 22, 2012 at 8:49 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Ned: It has been proven false idiot!!! There was no grand flood; there was no Adam and Eve; there was no resurrection; there was no virgin birth. Most people are Atheists because they have read the buybull!! The fact that you fail to comprehend these basic facts does not make them false. The simple fact is that you are lazy and gullible. Read a science book and stop smoking the religious crack pipe idiot!!!

      August 22, 2012 at 9:03 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Ned: Since you fail to comprehend how google works, try reading the following: http://www.greenwych.ca/bible-a.htm

      August 22, 2012 at 9:05 am |
    • Huebert

      @Ned

      Most of the bible is demonstrably false. take all of genesis for instance. The world was not created/formed (pick your favorite verb) in 6 days, their was no light before the sun ignited, snakes never talked, and their was never a world wide flood. or we can take the story of Jesus. No human male could ever be born from a virgin woman, where would he get a Y-chromosome? Walking on water is impossible, the laws of physics and density say so. I could continue but you get the idea.

      You have no more support for your favorite flavor of myth than Muslims do for Allah or the Greeks did for Zeus. You believe because you want to, not because you have any good reasons.

      August 22, 2012 at 9:17 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Huebert, learn Jesus' truth for once in your young life. You're too young to go through life as a fool.

      Here's true biblical scholars site that will teach you Jesus Christ's truth.

      http://biblestudysite.com/indepth.htm

      August 22, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Huebert, learn this ...

      Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

      Hebrews 1:3

      Amen.

      August 22, 2012 at 9:55 am |
    • HeavenSent

      How google works? You're a joke. No true Christian searches the net on google big brother. They're discarded as soon as we turn our computers on.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • Huebert

      @HS

      I'm not going to read your bible study site, I've read enough of them. Jesus has no unique truth or moral wisdom. Their isn't a single bit of wisdom in the bible that can't be found in Jainism, an Indian religion that began to spread over 300 years before Jesus was born. You need to realize I, along with most other atheist, view your religion in the same way you view Islam, as something that is obviously and unequivocally false.

      August 22, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • WASP

      @NED: i do enjoy going back and forth with HS, when she has points to make that are valid other than what i've been seeing lately; that being said.

      @HS: stop picking fights, you're quite old enough to be able to chat as an adult even if the truth of our lack of religious belief is bothersome to you.

      @ned: "the truth hurts" i love that saying, truly. the number one place you will not ever get a single shread of truth is in religion; religion provides nice fantasies of heaven or other promises of reward when you die, however none have ever been proven true, thus it's not truth.......reason it's called faith; no truth nor proof required.
      if you search through history the number one organization that has the most to gain from keeping people "in the dark" is the religious leaders of the world, they gain prestige, money, favors and the ability to influence governments by their mere presence in that country.........if you don't believe me, how many people took off work or had someone watch their children when the pope showed up before? thousands?

      August 22, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • HeavenSent

      WASP, as I wrote to Doc Vestibule, I'm just giving you a taste of what you dish out to us. I'm glad you don't enjoy it. Neither do we (meaning Christians).

      August 22, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • HeavenSent

      WASP, turn off the TV, the Net, and the radio. Then you won't have to hear any of the man made lies.

      However, Jesus is one on one with you as well as all of us. It's your personal walk with Him and not to walk away from Him because He never forsakes us. He's always there for us.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • Elwood P. Dowd

      HeavenSent:
      "He never forsakes us. He's always there for us."

      Yeah... I know the feeling. That's just like it is with my 6'2" invisible rabbit friend, Harvey!

      August 22, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • J.W

      I keep on praying that people will respond to these posts. My prayer seems to work. I think the only way to prove me wrong is if people stopped responding to it.

      August 22, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • ....

      BULL SH IT ALERT

      August 22, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Elwood P. Dowd, I'm glad you appreciated Jimmy Stewarts talents.

      August 22, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      August 22, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs .

      August 23, 2012 at 10:32 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.