August 27th, 2012
11:31 AM ET
Bill Nye slams creationism
By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN)–Famed TV scientist Bill Nye is slamming creationism in a new online video for Big Think titled "Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children."
"Denial of evolution is unique to the United States," Nye begins in a YouTube video posted on Thursday. The video quickly picked up steam over the weekend and as of Monday morning had been viewed more than 1,100,000 times.
Nye - a mechanical engineer and television personality best known for his program, "Bill Nye the Science Guy" - said the United States has great capital in scientific knowledge and "when you have a portion of the population that doesn't believe in it, it holds everyone back."
"Your world becomes fantastically complicated if you don't believe in evolution," Nye said in the Web video.
Creationists are a vast and varied group in the United States. Most creationists believe in the account of the origins of the world as told in the Book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible.
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In the creation account, God creates Adam and Eve, the world, and everything in it in six days.
For Christians who read the Genesis account literally, or authoritatively as they would say, the six days in the account are literal 24-hour periods and leave no room for evolution. Young Earth creationists use this construct and biblical genealogies to determine the age of the Earth, and typically come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years.
Your Take: 5 reactions to Bill Nye's creationism critique
The Gallup Poll has been tracking Americans' views on creation and evolution for the past 30 years. In June it released its latest findings, which showed 46% of Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in evolution guided by God, and 15% believed in atheistic evolution.
During the 30 years Gallup has conducted the survey, creationism has remained far and away the most popular answer, with 40% to 47% of Americans surveyed saying they believed that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years.
Survey: Nearly half of Americans subscribe to creationist view of human origins
"The idea of deep time of billions of years explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your worldview becomes crazy, untenable, itself inconsistent," Nye said in the video.
"I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, that's completely inconsistent with the world we observe, that's fine. But don't make your kids do it. Because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need engineers that can build stuff and solve problems," he said.
Creationists' beliefs about the origins of the Earth are often a narrow focus, based in large part on religious beliefs, and while they reject evolution as "just one theory," they often embrace other fields of science and technology.
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In "The Genesis Flood," the 1961 book that in many ways help launch the Young Earth creationism movement in the United States, the authors write: “Our conclusions must unavoidably be colored by our Biblical presuppositions, and this we plainly acknowledge." Their goal for the book was to harmonize the scientific evidence with the accounts in Genesis of creation and the flood.
The idea of creationism has been scorned by the mainstream scientific community since shortly after Darwin introduced "The Origin of Species" in 1859. By 1880, The American Naturalists, a science journal, reported nearly every major university in America was teaching evolution.
"In another couple centuries I'm sure that worldview won't even exist. There's no evidence for it. So..." Nye ends his video.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
evolution is a THEORY! Prove it! BOZO!
Prove that you know what a scientific theory is, CLARABELLE!
My agenda is to make sure that my right to believe what I want is upheld. Junk "science" has an agenda to take away everyone's right to decide for themselves. The day will come when "science" decides that you need to be castrated to save the gene pool from mutants such as yourself.
My aim is to make sure that my right to believe what I want is upheld. The aim of junk "science" is to take away everyone's right to decide for themselves. The day will come when "science" decides that you need to be castrated to save the gene pool from mutants such as yourself.
Why don't you tell us what the scientific definition of "theory" is, as has been suggested? I doubt you can. You obviously don't know what it is. It's not a "guess".
You can believe that Apollo carries the sun across the sky each day in his chariot, or that fairies are beneath your garden, making it grow; but you will not be teaching it, without verified evidence, in science class in publicly-funded schools.
Conniemarie, so basically you're presupposing a lot. I can tell you that, as an atheist, I have no intention of infringing upon your right to believe whatever you want to believe. As long as you keep your beliefs out of the science classroom, politics, and secular workplaces, please enjoy your religious freedom. Think you can do that?
Do not mind the mindless, not everyone here has fully evolved thinking ability.
The question to ask, how did life get here, and WHAT is evolution?
A much better and more factual video:
Athy – As I read your comments, we all get a better picture of who you are. I'm guessing you are 16 years old! I feel for anyone who has to deal with you on a daily basis. Maybe prayers should go out to those people.
Right back at you, Paul.
Aw, gee. Now you made me feel bad, Pauly.
And how does just you reading my comments give everyone else a better feel for who I am? Typical biblebabbler logic, I suppose.
Well educated people seem to take up the evolution banner when they need intellectual legitimacy and a moral framework for the anger they feel towards the supreme being. What was a fringe culture seems to be mutating into an ignoramus mob mentality. This was surely not the social outcome C. Darwin anticipated.
Post by '2357' is an instance of the ad hominem fallacy.
@2357: “Well educated people seem to take up the evolution banner when they need intellectual legitimacy and a moral framework for the anger they feel towards the supreme being.”
You caught us! We admit it. We all support evolution because we are angry at your imaginary “supreme being”. I will tell you the secrete, we are all just as angry at your SB as we are at every other member of the imaginary creature club including Unicorns, Big Foot, UFOs, Ghosts and the Easter Bunny (eye roll).
Holy shiit, 2357. You just don't get it, do you? We have no anger toward a supreme being. How does that make sense when there is no fucking supreme being? Why don't you write this down 50 times until you learn it, like you do at your grade school?
Your later comments about poetry and perfection were far more sound and pretty. Now, you're just floating nonsense. Come on!
Atheists realized the effects the lack of a belief in a god would have on the morals of society and wrote what they believed would be a set of beliefs and goals for a secular society In doing so, they formed the branch of Atheism known as Secular Humanism. While accepting evolution as true, is opposite of what would be expected if they were solely derived from the evolutionary narrative. This is because Humanism also makes the assumption that humans are basically good. The Humanist Manifesto was updated because of the atrocities that humans inflicted upon other humans during the intervening years
Robert, you should've paid closer attention in English class. I couldn't finish reading your comment, painful!
Agreed, Kathy. That's what we call a "rambler". Kinda makes sense in a way, but you just can't be sure. In any event, it's bullshit.
What we see here is the true nature of the atheists and the hate they have for God. They literally hate anything to do with God and those that keep the faith. The idea that this country was founded on Christian ideals drives them crazy. They so hate it that they are the driving force behind the destruction of this countries moral values, secularism and ultimately the destruction of this country as we know it. This forum gives a certain amount of anonymity which is what they hide behind. There are also not as many of them on this board as the names would imply either. They reuse names quote other sources and just are not quality people. So Jesus said if they hate me they will hate you so rejoice for your reward is great. Ultimately its really funny that scientists say that Christians live in the dark ages when they themselves while discovering things limit their own thinking to the point of being exclusionary. Not for any good reason either its just they built their world on science along with all their associates and that is all they see. Keep up the good work Christians keep stating your disappointment with Bill and not the person just the lack of acceptance of anyone else s ideas and the idea that he decided to make a personal feeling public. Creationism and evolution should be taught together.
Nonsense. Simply because not everyone agrees with you does not mean they are bad people. Multiple screen names ? Both sides are guilty of that, only someone reading these posts with an absolute bias can't see that. As to teaching both, good luck with that. Creationism, especially the young-earth variety, has no place in public schools. If you wish to have your brand of eligion taught to your children, then send them to a school that mirrors your values. Just don't ask the American public to fund your child's religious upbringing.
Well said, Robert. Maybe creation should not be taught in schools and should be left for Sunday School, but evolution should certainly NOT be taught as Fact. Because it is not! The evidence is inconclusive and many of the foundations of evolution are based upon assumptions.
2 Corinthians 4
4 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has BLINDED the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
We know what we are dealing with. We will never be able to convince anyone of the Truth. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. We must pray for those who are hostile to the Good News.
Paul, while you are quote dumping from the Christian book of horrors AKA the bible, let's take a look at some of the other fine guidance that's in that horrid book. Certainly not stuff that we should be having taught to our children:
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
You pray for us, and we'll think for you, but don't ever try pushing your sick, evil religion at my children.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
Paul: Look up the word "theory" in its scientific usage. Evolution will be taught in schools. It is science. Creationism is not and should not be taught as such. Get over it.
Do you know the reason why the thought that the "idea that this country was founded on Christian ideals" drives us crazy? Because it's false. If you bothered to learn the true and honest history, you would discover that the United States was created by men who were far more influenced by the Enlightenment and it's principal of reason, and the understanding of science, than by any religion.
You can believe in anything you want, even a god for which there is no proof, but anyone who respects the truth will be offended when you attempt to rewrite history to make it suit your religious agenda.
Amen, Robert! It never ceases to amaze me the degree of hate these atheists have for God whom they claim they don't believe exists. I think they hate God because when you admit God, you also have to live up to moral standards. They don't want to be responsible for their sins.
@ Evangelical – Robert's premise is still nonsense.
I find it ironic when a christian claims that atheists don't believe in god because they don't want to be responsible for their own sins. Didn't Jesus die for your sins? If you wanted to be responsible for your own sins you would have refused that monstrous "sacrifice", but Instead, you let an innocent man be tortured to death in your place.
I don't believe in your god because there is no evidence to support the existence of your god. Because I don't believe in your god (or any god) I don't hate god. That would be silly and irrational. I am absolutely responsible for my own behavior, therefore if I do something that damages another person, I make amends to that person. I don't pray to a nonexistent god and call it good.
Don't let anyone ever hear you rant against "Allah" then. You hate "Allah", don't you?
Face it, you are too lazy and proud to lie down on the ground and stick your butt in the air 5 times a day; too cheap to pay for a trip to Mecca; and too forgetful to remember to enter the bathroom right foot first. And you hate "Allah".
When will you fucking vangies get it through your concrete heads that we don't hate god. There is no god to hate! Why is that simple concept so difficult for you to grasp? Say it 50 times every day until you understand. We don't believe there is a god to hate. There is no god to hate. There is no god to hate. There is no god to hate. Getting anything into your heads is like teaching a turtle to jump through a hoop. But I gotta give it shot anyway, even though I know it's a losing effort.
"Fantactically complicated" – sounds like Ney's view of the world to me. He seems to forget that his models require impossible levels of improbabilities occurring millions of times to work. He seems to forget, that unlike the operational science (the type that you need to be a good engineer), these so-called scientific facts are unprovable and untestable, as we cannot go back in time. He seems to forget how new evidence continue to place supposed "descendants" at ages millions of years before their "ancestors". He seems to forget the thousands of creationist scientists, architechts and engineers that built many of the enduring masterpieces of our world and continue to do so. In short, his sweeping statements about the supposed dangers of creationism are without foundation.
Very well put!!
TC, you don't know anything about evolution, obviously. Not only is it proved in hundreds of labs across the planet thousands of times a day, but it is proven EVERY SINGLE TIME we grown in our knowledge of genetics. Evolution is probably the most proven fact in existence. Do some research and actually learn something, because you sound as stupid as someone saying, "I don't believe in math because everyone knows 4+banana=swingset is just plain wrong."
TC, that's very misleading. Most of those scientists and engineers that you refer to historically were under extreme social pressure to be in the Christian religion. Now that situation is a bit better, and only a tiny minority of scientists and engineers fall for your pathetic Christian fables.
The same argument about not being able to go back in time also applies to creationism, but in the case of evolution, there are mountains of evidence to support evolution and evolution can be observed in real time in the laboratory in fast breeding species. In the case of creationism, there is simply no scientific evidence to support it that anyone can produce.
So how does it feel to be on the wrong side of history, as your religious delusion fades and its flock of stupid sheeple declines, eventually into obscurity like all the other supersti-tions that preceded it and that much of it is merely stolen from?
Centuries ago, many scientists and engineers were Muslim. How do you like them apples, TC and Robert? Sort of blows your pathetic "argument" out of the water. Bend over, grease up, and take it. You're on the wrong end of the evidence stick.
TC and Robert are beyond reach. TC can't even spell Bill's name right. Shit, man, it"s only three letters! All we can do is look on in abject amusement as they continue to make asses of themselves. Concentrate instead on members of the younger generation who haven't yet been totally biblewashed.
Due to a night of insomnia, I somehow came across this lovely.. Honestly I do not know what you would call it... But for lack of a better word.. Garbage. I will post once, and probably never come back, because the "actual" intelligent and successful people do not have time to waste on making sure they have the last word, and Definitely do not spend their time "correcting" and berating other's comments.. Whether you believe in creationism, evolution, or whatever else, I think we can all agree that (stated to those who live in the USA) we live in a country where we can all believe or not believe in whatever we chose. We are not forced to "have to" believe in anything.. So why do the majority of you feel the need to push your beliefs on others, who so clearly, do not believe in what you do? You do not have to be a "bible-blabber" (as the self-proclaimed Athy stated) to know the difference between right and wrong, and to persecute one based upon their beliefs is wrong... It's wrong to judge, it's wrong to mock, it's wrong to do anything that hurts another human being... It's sad that our world has come down to "intelligent" people using their knowledge to hurt and cut down others.. Not one person involved the conversation above is someone I would call respectful or commendable... Instead of waiting for the next response, so that you can bash that person for their grammar, why don't you go make a difference in the world? If you believe so strongly against creationism, become educated on subject and begin teaching it. Do not use your knowledge to cut others down, use it in a positive way that you can actually affect one's life. "you get more bees with honey than with vinegar"
Part of that freedom that we are granted by living in the USA is the freedom of speech. If you find this blog to be offensive, please feel free to ignore it. We are all here by choice.
While your point is well taken and others have stated the same set of complaints, I think it's important to recognize that this is an open forum where ideas are expressed and discussed. Despite what you personally feel about the tone or method employed, open and honest dialogue is an important part of the education process. "Some of us" actually believe that we ARE doing good and also trying to teach others by correcting them when they speak factual inaccuracies.
In fact, there is no country on this planet where you are not free to believe what you want to believe. Technology has not advanced to the point where we can actually control what others believe.
"It's wrong to judge, it's wrong to mock, it's wrong to do anything that hurts another human being..." Irony notwithstanding as the statement is a judgment in itself, judging is an important human process for decision making. Mockery is sometimes valuable. Blanket statements are usually factually inaccurate.
I hope you're able to get some sleep. Insomnia can be miserable.
Bill Nye, I just know you are reading this. When my kids were younger they enjoyed watching you. So did I. And I appreciate your passion, I do. I think that's what really sells you.
However, you simply cannot quantify your statements here. You must base a measurement upon some known, agreed upon system of weights and measures. And with regard to the measuring of time, we do not have an agreed upon standard. That is, for as long as we have recorded history, with the exception of Adam and Eve's family, there has been dispute regarding the measurement of time. Each civilization has a different one, and that is one of the key factors that sets nation apart from nation.
That said, and with regard to your United States comment, we are not really a nation by the definition of the word, "nation". Rather we are a country. That is, we are not all slowly beginihg to look like Abraham Lincoln. However, I would venture that most people would claim that that are Iraelites, through Jesus' bloodline. Otherwise, you must track you bloodline to some other god.
These are facts. If you are going to say, "millions of years ago", then you must have a starting point for that measurement. And if your starting point was today, there would be about 14 days left in the year 5772, since the beginning, as I see it. But science tells us that time is relative. As such, it you can count back time millions if years to a beginning where humans did not exist, then relative to who? Sincerely. And which of us does not have parents? So, as such, I would appreciate if you would take these statements back, and until you can answer what day the counting starts on, apologize to those whom you claim are "holding you back". Because what ever moment you start the counting from is in relation to your calendar, then your watch, then your atom, or whatever you use to count time. When you can do this without a calendar, then you will be basing it off of something other than the very beliefs of the group that you claim are holding you back.
tob, it is sooooooo sad to witness someone as ignorant of scientific fact as you prove you are. I have no desire to debate you on your many errors but I do pity you greatly.
Rob, Exactly what is the calender you would like to use so that Bill can explain it to you in thsoe terms? Are you still living in the Dark Ages (as u say time is relative, it might be just dark ages for some people still?)
Do tell about the controversy of time measurements in various civilizations. I have heard about a few civilizations – Greek, Roman, Indian.... Do we still practice their science today? nay....
You proved my point exactly. I see you post came in at 1:26am on September 3, in the good year of our Lord, 2012. Now, why don't you let me hear you whine like a baby about how you post would exist without that moment in time that we BOTH agree upon, and CNN as well. You scientists seek to saw off the very branch that you are sitting on.
Wow, Rob! How do you get to your junior high classes on time? Your concept of time is inscrutable to say the least.
I say you use the Aztec calendar. It has that crowned face with the tongue hanging out in the middle. A clear foretelling of the beginning of the zombie apocalypse being slightly eclipsed by the diamond jubilee. OK. carry on.
Relative to whom?
An Earth year is the amount of time it takes for the Earth to orbit the Sun.
You are a loon. I'll bet that your kids know it. I just hope that, for their sakes, you have other characteristics to make up for it.
My mother was a loon. My siblings and I figured that out by about age 10. She did have some redeeming traits, but it was quite difficult dealing with her.
Please get a grip on reality.
Sincerely, what do you think a calendar is a chart of? Moron. Your mother was probably right.
Yes, the basis of today's science is Greek. That is why the "so-called" planets are named after Greek gods.
What a moron? Are you blind to not see this?
Yes, dear. There, there, dear. Everyone will figure it out soon, dear.
How 'bout them Dodgers?
The book of Genesis and the Bible are not scientific facts. These are stories compiled by authors,and were decide by person or persons to publish .
Creationists are just lazy. They don't want to understand how things work so they say "Yeah, God just did it." Fortunately for them, scientists didn't buy that despite the best efforts of the church to ridicule and jail people who dared to ask "why?'. If a doctor seeing that certain groups of kids didn't get small pox while other did simply said "God must want to punish them" instead of "what do these kids have in common and what is different" millions of children would have died before reaching adulthood. It's funny they try use a Youtube video to try to debunk evolution when Youtube, the internet, computers, telecommunication are all things the Bible says are impossible because it gets simple things like light propagation and planetary orbits wrong. If you can find flaws in evolution (although doesn't show any legitimate flaws), that wouldn't make creationism correct by default. That's not how science (or basic logic works). You have to show the creationism explains all the observable data better than evolution. Creationism explains nothing that messes with any observable data (no more than I could say "Flying Spaghetti Monster makes everything with its magic- prove me wrong!"). Nothing about Creationism stands up to any sort of scrutiny so it must be rejected outright. Your faith that God waved his hands and made Adam and Eve is no more valid than suicide bomber who believes he will get dozens of virgins in the after life if he dies a martyr. They're equally crazy and without merit.
Bob: You are without doubt, the most intelligent person who has ever posted on this blog, myself included. It is refreshing to see someone with such clarity of thought. Kudos. I wish I had your gift. Bravo!
"For Christians who read the Genesis account literally, or authoritatively as they would say, the six days in the account are literal 24-hour periods and leave no room for evolution. Young Earth creationists use this construct and biblical genealogies to determine the age of the Earth, and typically come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years."
The FACT that The Sun was NOT Created til the Third "day" Boggles the Mind of how any Thinking Christian would Determine The Creation period to be "literal 24-hour periods"; Also, The Evidences of Civilized and Ancient Man's Existence and Civilizations having existed for 10's of Thousands of Years is Compelling and Overwhelmingly Evidential.!!!
Is There a God in Heaven a Literal Heavenly Father of Our Spirits? Absolutely.!!!
Does / Do The EVIDENTIAL Facts of Creationism align with the Apostate beliefs of the general Fundamentalist Christian Communities/"Young Earth creationists"? Absolutely NOT.!!!
Does Bill Nye Have an Explanation of How the First Ever Matter "Evolved" other Than by Creationism? Absolutely NOT.!!!
You are confusing evolution with abiogenesis.
Why the hell do you capitalize about every third word? My third-grade grandson knows better than that. You fucking biblebabblers are, for all practical puposes, functionally illiterate. This seems to be a common connection throughout this blog; bible babbling, stone-age mentality and childish writing skills in one pitiful package. Please, oh please try to show me I'm wrong. Please?
Nye is unable, like all zealots, to see that his view is anything but 100% correct. When he implies that we can't have great engineers or scientists if they aren't hardy believers in evolution, he ignores the fact that thousands of great scientists and engineers have believed in God and the Genesis story. Some of these men walked on the moon. Without realizing it his all or nothing fanaticism is what prevents growth. What he condemns, he practices himself, which proves that he is, like all of us, human.
Newton, unable to solve the complexities of planetary motion attributed it to god as well. That was, until Laplace came along and solved it. Smart people who reach the end of their knowledge often attribute the gap to god. History has shown us that what one scientist attributes to god, another comes along and explains using the laws of physics. The lesson here is not that there must be a god, but rather to not to jump to conclusions when we don't know the answer.
I am with bill nye.
SHHHHH dont tell them evolution isnt real.......
As a child I was taught evolutionary theory. Later in life I had the chance to review creationism. It seems as though it, in itself isn't harmful persay. To my eyes its a very useful metaphor for how mankind tends to damage our natural surroundings. But it wasn't something that was ever presented to me as literal information.
Nor should it be. Creationism is simply an attempt by certain christians to insert their faith into a system where it is not necessary.
Nye lumps Old earth Creationists with Young Earth Creationists which is unfair. OE creationists accept evident aspects of evolution but not claims that go beyond the material evidence of fossils and molecular genetics. The main point of contention is human origins. Dawkins wants to side step evidence of 3.8 million human fossils. He absurdly claims, "we don't need fossils in order to demonstrate that evolution is a fact." (Greatest Show, p. 145)
Seriously? Dawkins actually said that? God, he's a lot dumber than I imagined.
Dawkins means that evolution is directly observable right now, and there is plenty of evidence for it. We don't need the fossil record to know that it happens. And he is absolutely correct.
That's so funny...
In 19th century, Darwin based on no observations, only plagiarized work and his grandfather ocultist book, said speciation occur with gradual changes and the fossil record discovered in future excavations would prove him right. A hundred years later, the fossil record was pretty much the same, no gradual changes discovered, and instead of trashing the theory, Gould and other quacks had so much irrational faith in it despite is lack of evidence that they came up with the nonsensical idea of punctuated equilibrium, basically contradicting the whole thing, saying that new species enter and leave the fossil record with no significant changes, because they split instantly into new species, not by gradual changes. That doesn't solved the problem of sudden appearances and disappearances in fossil records, that could always be saved by the same old fallacy: we will find fossils, because the theory is true.
It's funny how militant evolutionists don't accept the exact same argument applied against evolution. For instance, when apparently random trash DNA was found in genome, they attributed that to evolution, despite counter-arguments that they could have some function yet unknown. Now, as their functions is discovered, I'm curious to where they will run to.
Evolutionism reminds me of a Dilbert strip: management is the art of exchanging hypothetical future things for real things now! Keep pushing the need for substantial evidence to the future. What really matters now is that evolution is true. Amen.
To have Dawkins say that nonsense as an argument is very, very funny.
Julia: It's "per se" not "persay".
Alice: 3.8 million human fossils is an awful lot of fossils, isn't it?
oxcarbaz seems to understand little about evolution and even less about the fascinating field of genetics.
The poster oxkarbaz's description of the physiological relationship of DNA is quite accurate. One area of study that signifies this importance is disease.
Will evidence continually be suppressed due to a personal view on religion? Will anyone then trust the process used to attain the evidence?
In keeping with my observations of the world in which I live I must say there are more things I do not understand fully than those I do. It really helps to be content with that. I suspect my brain isn't wired to comprehend the true dimension of the universe. And, I suspect that line of thinking has been the case through the ages reflected in the words of true thinkers.
The mystery of how we came to be could have been revealed at once to us all perhaps, but we wouldn't have understood it because the gift of intellect has been metered out slowly as we become more complete beings. If the force that allows that needs a name, OK, give it one. In the interim, being impatient beings, we write books, essays, treatises and manifestos about the way the world is unfolding, the way things surely must be. Maybe not just like that…
Everybody needs a job or a reason to be and so we have many views from Pope Benedict to Bill Nye, good people, mean well. We're all riding the transition that will never end, at least I hope it won't. Because when we only defend an interim view to the exclusion of what we can discover as time goes by, we're dead in the water.
Yours is a very mature position, Charles, but it fails in assuming our understanding moves slowly but always forward. Unfortunately, that's not the case. The last centuries have seen an amazing progress in technical achievements, and western men has been able to do things it never done before, but on the other hand, it never had such a naive view of reality.
FAITH. That is what it is all about. You need to have faith. You can not see it, touch it or buy it. Faith is the way to the Lord.
Muslims have faith...Jews have faith...Mormons have faith...Scientologists have faith...so by your reasoning they're all right, right?
Faith is just an excuse for not having a valid reason for believing in something...it's gullibility...nothing more.
So Steve, you're saying that's fine to believe if you have a valid reason, but when people believe without a valid reason, that's what you call faith?
Tell me then, who or what defines what's a valid reason?
Based on your posts, ox, apparently you are the font of all truth and knowledge. All hail ox, the one true god.
I'm open to debate, Tom. When you come with this kind of rhetorical nonsense, you're simply proving you are unable to do it.
I'm unable to do it because I'm laughing too hard.
Faith is used as a replacement for intelligence when you have too many neurons short to think straight.
Faith is pretending to know things you don't know.
This is God, I do not endorse any dating site over another. In case you were wondering – or wandering, for that matter.
Wow. I had no idea you existed. I will abandon my atheist ways!
Still waiting for an atheist to explain to me how that elementary particle key to the Big Bang Theory got there in the first place?
Atheist here. We are still waiting for you to pick up a science textbook.
As an atheist myself, I can assure you that God did it.
Im not the same paul from below.
The Big Bang is just a total nonsense that emerged in order to counter the empirical evidence that Earth is not moving and is placed at the center of the universe.
The nonsense just gets piled up to the point they give birth to more and more nonsense, like dark matter and string theory.
Because you can not see faith, touch it or buy it is the reason atheist do not believe. What about the devil worshipers..... you never see atheist going after them. Maybe they believe in that. Look long and hard. The lord is there and cares about everyone. Have faith. There is life after death.
Real atheists are incredibly rare, because it's a very, very difficult position to maintain. Most of the so-called atheists are merely people with the wrong idea of what God is. Most of the time, their idea of God borders that of an uneducated barbarian, and being such a naive product of their own minds, it obviously doesn't exist.
I never personally met a real atheist, and among the intellectuals I could find only a handful. George Santayana and Jean François Revel, for instance, although I still have my doubts on the second. Most of the well regarded atheist intellectuals are complete nut cases, like Bertrand Russel.
Overcoming this so-called atheism is mostly a matter of intellectual and spiritual maturity. Most of them become atheists not after a real quest for knowledge of the transcendent, but to serve much lesser purposes, like peer-pressure, independence, self-steem, etc.
I'd like to see you explain why not yet understanding some phenomena in the universe somehow invalidates the concept of there being no god. If you use this logical fallacy to invalidate atheism, then your god is just an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.
I have nothing against your belief and am not trying to change them. I'm only pointing out that the logic you use in you arguments is flawed.
"Most of the time, their idea of God borders that of an uneducated barbarian, and being such a naive product of their own minds, it obviously doesn't exist."
And of course, you know this. What a pompous windbag you are.
"Most of the time, their idea of God borders that of an uneducated barbarian, and being such a naive product of their own minds, it obviously doesn't exist."
And of course, you know all about what the "correct" idea of god is, don't you, ox? What a pompous windbag you are.
I'll be glad to explain, and glad to know where my logic is flawed if that's the case, but I honestly don't understand what you are asking. If I got it right, you're suggesting that science can provide real truth, therefore what I call god is just a temporary explanation based on my personal belief for phenomena beyond those limits?
If that's the case, you think it's a flaw because you think I'm talking about phenomena, and you think science can give you real knowledge regarding them. Both assumptions are flawed. Science can't possibly give you metaphysical answers, which is what I'm talking about, and science, or more appropriately, modern science, can only give you answers based on the model of reality you chose, not on reality itself. This choice is as faith based as any other religious dogma.
Just as clarification, I do not invalidate atheism. Atheism is a perfectly valid position. What I said is that real atheists are incredibly rare. A genuine atheist has to be either a radical solipsist, or someone who disregards any possibility of symbolic knowledge and transcendence in reality. Most of the so called atheists simply disbelief their own conception of what God is, and never ventured seriously into the subject.
What you said about god being an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance is a perfect example, since that is precisely the view many of the so called atheists have. I find it funny how many of them don't realize how many of the modern scientific conclusions are merely chosen because they allow to push god further and further away the field of immediate research, not because they attend the criteria of scienticity.
Since you seems so desperate for attention, I'll answer that. No, I don't know what the correct definition is, but I do know for sure what it isn't.
It's a mystery. Science admits that. We say, "We don't know where the singularity came from." It seems a heck of a lot more rational to admit that we don't know then to say that ""Big invisible sky wizard did it by chanting magic spellz" What about the honest answer, "We don't know" is unacceptable to you?
By placing an "a" in front of the word "typical" we get "atypical" which means "not" typical. By placing an "a" in front of "theism" we get "not" a believer in god(s). An atheist is one who does not believe in any gods. Anyone who does not believe in Thor is an atheist in regards to Thor. Anyone who does not believe in the existence of any gods proposed to exist by humanity is an atheist. There are plenty of atheists out there. Open your fvcking eyes.
The best that these looney tunes and coockoos have created is R2D2 - and our God did not even have computers then to create Adam and Eve-!
The more they probed the funnierand more confused they get - 1/2% of one billlion of the universe they discovered ? And so arrogant to change our beliefs.... they could not even see a living star since it is millions of light years away and admitted by the time the image reaches them it is gone...now where is Carl Sagan now? .... God must be amused of the arrogance of man - some men - many other scientist are just curious building the modern tower of Babel –doing exactly what they are suppose to do - - others in their confused state - want you to follow everything they say which is coocoo coocoo.
True arrogance is to believe that the entire universe, which you spent a paragraph describing how vast it is, exists only for humans. And not all humans, only a subset of humans, His "chosen people." And that some omnipotent being has nothing better to do than spy on us all day.
You are the definition of a confused state.
This paragraph is a distillation of the arrogant ignorance that pervades America right now. Science is the truth. The vastness of the universe, evolution, infinite new particles and discoveries is more amazing than a story about "everything was created in 6 days."
These people close their eyes to real truth. We live in an amazing universe, read some books, take some university classes...go buy a telescope or microscope.