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 Commenters were fired up about Bill Nye, creationism and evolution.
August 28th, 2012
10:37 AM ET
Your Take: 5 reactions to Bill Nye's creationism critiqueBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Bill Nye does not think that children should be taught to deny evolution, and a YouTube video of him explaining why has gone viral. The CNN Belief Blog's report on the video has generated around 10,000 comments and thousands of Facebook shares since Monday. There were some broad themes in the comments, reflecting a debate that is largely unique to the United States. While Christianity is booming in Africa, Asia and Latin America, creationism is not, Penn State University religious studies professor Philip Jenkins writes in his book "The New Faces of Christianity: Believing the Bible in the Global South." Here are five schools of reaction that have emerged in comments: 1. Those using this controversy to bash religion Atheists love the Internet, as we've chronicled on the Belief Blog. While they may be a small portion of the population, they seem to make up about half our commenters. It was their chance to join with Nye and cheer him on:
2. Those who say wait a minute, being a creationist isn’t necessarily being anti-evolution Lots of folks from the theistic evolution camp came out to say that believing God was involved doesn't automatically make you anti-evolution.
3. Those who say that science is stupid and that young Earth creationism rules Young Earth creationists, who believe the Earth is about 6,000 years old, appeared to be out in force in the comments.
4. Those who say Nye should stick to his area of expertise This tweet was the most polite remark we could find on this subject. Other comments and tweets, not so much.
[tweet https://twitter.com/watsup1101/status/240168918109523968%5D 5. Those who say CNN is cooking up controversy where none exists Lots of people suggested we were generating a story instead of covering one.
For the record, plenty of other news outlets covered this story, pointing out that Nye's video was posted on YouTube just before the Republican National Convention opened. Turns out that Nye taped the segment awhile back and had no say in when it would be released. Thanks for chiming in. The comments are open here, and you can always hit us up on Twitter @CNNBelief. soundoff (2,811 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Only for the new members of this blog:
Besides the dinosaurs and other fossils in our evolutionary process:
You might be part Neaderthal and for $99 actually find out:
As per National Geographic's Genographic project:
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/
" DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who about 60,000 years ago began a remarkable journey. Follow the journey from them to you as written in your genes”.
"Adam" is the common male ancestor of every living man. He lived in Africa some 60,000 years ago, which means that all humans lived in Africa at least at that time.
Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in his era. Rather, he is unique because his descendents are the only ones to survive.
It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all the genetic diversity."
For your $99 and a DNA swab:
"Included in the markers we will test for is a subset that scientists have recently determined to be from our hominin cousins, Neanderthals and the newly discovered Denisovans, who split from our lineage around 500,000 years ago. As modern humans were first migrating out of Africa more than 60,000 years ago, Neanderthals and Denisovans were still alive and well in Eurasia. It seems that our ancestors met, leaving a small genetic trace of these ancient relatives in our DNA. With Geno 2.0, you will learn if you have any Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA in your genome."
Prayer changes things ,
when captain kangaroo does your thinking for you
creationism is
when you watch the flintstones as if it is a docu-mentary. ROFLMFAO!
no seriously if you believe in creationism, then you are telling your children that the flintstones are real..............hey wait, betty was pretty hot. lmfao
There's a way to prove if creationism is real. Mix cement in a pelican's beak. If it dies evolution is real, but if it makes a wisecrack creationism is real.
becomes atheism
Rational Libertarian: I don't get it...
Have you ever watched The Flinstones?
“when captain kangaroo does your thinking for you“
Wrong! Captain Kangaroo has always made way more sense and been much more reasonable then most theists
JKM,
This blog page has become insane since yday. When you come back in 2 hrs, one can't even find where they were debating earlier. So I am posting this independently.
I dont think it would be appropriate to bring in the god gene, bcoz there is no sufficient evidence for that either. So I dont like to use it in any of my arguments.
However, you still make your argument saying that "Concept of god has helped evolution whether I believe it or not" without providing any substance to support the same, pretty much like saying God exists whether you believe it or not.
The topic of debate is WHETHER WE SHOULD INCLUDE CREATIONISM as alternative scientific theory. And I am yet to hear any solid argument from your side in its favor'.
Let us review the points you make till now:
1. Belief in god has helped us evolve. I ask – prove that. Pick history, pick politics, pick science, whatever you like.
2. It has been the belief of the majority – My argument – Are we deciding by polling here? Please provide your counter-argument.
3. Creationism has not been proven – you say that yourself. In fact, I didn't even go into the realm of god gene or god particle coz we do not know enough as yet. U bring them up and support my argument.
Science is not threatening religion you see. Religion is just feeling threatened. Give sufficient evidence for creationism and I shall accept it. But if the evidence is – Hey we found a flaw in evolution (refer Cambrian explosion, u have not explained macro-evolution, complexity of DNA etc etc, and of course if you read at their site – THE BIGGEST EVIDENCE IS GOD TOLD US IN THE BIBLE!!!!) – I will call it insanity. I do not challenge religion. I challenge it's interference in science.
Now why is it that no other religion seems to be worried about creationism???? Greek civilization was technologically far advanced than the people who wrote Bible. Hindus have a rich (though partially lost) heritage of the 4 Vedas and the Upanishads. They were so far advanced in every field including surgery and plastic surgery, and metaphysics. Now some divisions of Hinduism do not believe in creation and some believe in multiple gods. The Greeks believed in multiple gods too Why not accept that concept as well and incorporate it.
There are many atheists in other, more secular, countries than the U.S. It is common belief that disbelief in evolution is a U.S. cultural phenomenon.
Exactly. No other developed nation has this problem. In Europe, evolution acceptance is between 80-90% in most countries, with most of the remaining percentage being unsure rather than outright deniers. In the US, acceptance is 40%, while 20% are unsure. That means a whopping 40% of Americans are outright evolution deniers, which makes us only slightly better than Turkey, a country with a 98% Muslim population. To me it's inexplicable. Could somebody please tell me why so much of the population is retarded?
RL: I don't see it as a problem. Belief in God is not holding us back in any way.
Who mentioned god?
3 in 5 Canadian's accept Evolution as a fact. Although I would almost expect that based on a couple of factors: same sex marriage is widely accepted and abortion/contraception are not issues we are fighting over.
@Truth – don't tell that to the current Prime Minister, Steven Harper, who is a George Bush wanna be courting the far right fundamentalists nutbar in Western Canada. He is a very slick politician who is working to undo what Canada is – and that includes undoing Canada where abortion is legal.
Ignorance is not bliss, but judging from many of the comments here, is apparently alive and well.
One has to be seriously in love with himself and brainwashed to believe in creationism/gods and magic.. Hello the year is 2012, not 12; Evolution is a FACT.
It's obvious that Bill is completely correct and we all know it.
Obviously, #5 goes without saying. #4 sounds like projection. #3 are precisely the idiots who choose to pick science when they need medical care and it really matters, but not so much on things such as climate science and evolution.
"Atheists love the Internet, as we've chronicled on the Belief Blog. While they may be a small portion of the population, they seem to make up about half our commenters. It was their chance to join with Nye and cheer him on:"
Ha, maybe that just means there are just alot of closet atheists out there!
I want to meet this SteveHeft guy. I bet he's seen some awesome stuff, because based on his comment he's over 2000 years old, or has mastered time travel. Or he doesn't know what "first-hand" means...
Brilliant! You made my coffee shoot out my nose. Stings a bit, but thanks for the belly chuckle.
Can you read? Being a first-hand witness to the Risen Christ does not mean the same as being a first-hand witness to the Resurrection of Christ. Its like meeting a guy who got out of prison five years ago rather then watching him leave prison.
I wonder, CNN, why Robert Jastrow's thoughts on this matter were not brought into this topic? Jastrow's scientific prowess, I am certain, was far superior to Nye's.
@because: cause of big bang; inbalance in internal pressures pushing out and external (gravity) pushing in, equalibrium was shifted ever so slightly leading to eventual expansion of sigularity thus creating our current state of exsistance.
see no outside force needed (aka god)
As far as teaching creationism in schools as science, well, have the people who want this REALLY thought this through? Are they willing to have the creation story of EVERY religion added as a possible theory? You want your children to learn creationism then teach them yourselves! Find a church that corresponds with your beliefs and GO-make sure your kid go to Sunday school. Send your children to a parochial school. There is NOTHING stopping YOU from teaching your child your beliefs, and do you really, truly want the schools teaching your children religion?
amen
Interesting point, though I definitely am a young earth creationist it wouldn't be fair to just teach Christianity faith in the schools as science. we would have to bring all other schools of faith in also.
but on the flip side of your comment. children spend in average of 7-8 hours at school. what is that compared to a half hour of Sunday school? those thoughts constantly around you will be much more reinforced over the years. Also a very small number of people can afford to pay for christian schools.
Waggoner: Not everyone wants their children growing up believing in the same fairy tales you have been brainwashed to accept as truth when there is no truth behind them and if you're going to have one taught, you must teach about every other belief...not enough time in a day to do this. Public schools are government funded...separation of church and state/freedom of and from religion. Sunday school and the home is where this garbage is best left to.
@sparko and truth: i think you both hit it on the head, so to speak. if we allow creationism to be taught in school, and i mean ALL creation stories then children would see just how much ALL religion has in common thus making it easier for them to make the next logical step to it is all make believe.
i say let's teach it just like that, as a world view and teach each creation story............i could be wrong because i'm coming back from an 18 hour shift and sitting at work again after only 3 hours of sleep. lmao
How about this: science reveals God's magnificent creation-his master engineering if you will. God could have done it in 6 days if He'd wanted to, but all evidence points that He took his time. I do not believe God left all this evidence only to trick us. I find it bizarre that there are so many willing to reap the benefits of modern science only to reject what they perceive does not follow a literal interpretation of Genesis. I believe in God. I do think evolution in a reality. The two are not mutually exclusive. Of course none of this is truly important. What is important is the sacrifice that Jesus made to save us from our sins, so why this eternal, useless debate over this I have no idea. I truly believe that it turns a lot of people "off" from the message of Jesus because Christians deny science. Please know not all of us do.
Oh, the "Jesus Sacrifice" thingie again! Think about it: God, an eternal, all knowing and all-powerful deity, sent a piece of himself (Jesus) to Earth in the form of a human, knowing beforehand (All-knowing, right?) that this piece of God would live in the form of a human for about 30 Earth years (No time at all for something eternal) and then die, and be dead for 3 Earth days, then come back to life, and then return that little piece of itself to God. So where's the sacrifice???? That's less a sacrifice than me breathing out a carbon atom, and a second later breathing it back in. If it was true, it's not a sacrifice. The Easter Bunny leaving one of his painted eggs at a kid's house is more of a sacrifice!
Creationism . .. the dumbing down of America continues. Faith, huh. Just because you believe something not only doesn't make it true, it doesn't make it even viable . . . or worthy. The Bible is NOT the word of any god; it was written by men with an agenda . . .and I hate to tell some of you this, Christianity is NOT the last word on much of anything. Faith is fine for comfort . . . but it is NOT Truth. Some of you folks are standing still, mired in the 19th century (or worse), while the Real World passes you by like a speeding train. rhb
heres the problem.... YOU CANT BELIEVE IN BOTH and make sense .... they counter one another at every point and only ONE makes sense.. People who say they believe both really, deep down or in the back of their mind know religion is alot of BS....but like it in their lives.... which is totally fine
You do know that when it was put forward the earth was round that was "anti God. Also when it was discovered that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the other way around. These once heritical scientific findings (and so many more) are now known to be be the reality yet have diminished God. The difference is now we don't burn the scientist at the stake. God is not diminished by what human science discovers. Science reveals God magnificent creation. Science and history, more people need to study and understand these subjects......
@sparko: ofcourse science doesn't diminish "god".......................because the followers just keep moving him around like in a game of chess.
before god was on a mountain.........we went looking......no god.
then god was above the clouds...........we went looking.....no god
then god was in space........yup you guessed it.........we went looking and found no god again
now god lives in a different space/time as we do.........eventually we will find a way to look there as well.....and find NO GOD.
i wonder then where will his followers move him?
you know the problem with the castle move in chess.........eventually you end up trapped in a corner with no escape.......checkmate is only a few moves away. 🙂
Sparko
It was widely accepted that the Earth was round before Christianity even existed. The idea that people thought the Earth was flat before the Renaissance is a myth.
I never write on these sites, but I find myself intruiged by this topic. I am a doctor at Harvard Medical School and a researcher. I believe that God exists, and I believe that He created all living creatures, including humans. I have spent my lifetime thinking about this, and am still open minded, but I am not sure that I believe the theory of evolution, for several reasons. First, as a researcher, even the simplest experiment can be ruined by one small variable being incorrectly set. More complex experiments make the likelihood of failing to follow a hypothesis even more likely. To state that a process as complex as cellular division, DNA encoding, protein folding, enzyme reacting is a process which can refine itself through random chance and lots and lots and lots of time seems, to me, to be at best suspect. Second, even if I could stretch my mind and perhaps imagine that DNA could randomly mutate to form a functional protein, which could then provide a selective advantage to an organism, it still makes little sense to me that we would 'evolve' to become as complex as we are. As an aside, it also makes no sense to me that there are phenomenally few 'missing links,' i.e. fossil evidence of creatures which evolved a less beneficial characteristic. If evolution were true, we should see abundant evidence of 'tried and failed' species – it is possible that a large number of these creatures never make it to a full grown fetus, but the point remains. The burden of evidence to me lies on evolutionists and proponents of that theory to convince me that it is even a viable theory- I just don't see it. Third, every living creature should have to follow the laws of thermodynamics, which states that every reaction tends towards a lower energy state. The fact that every living cell has to 'fight' to prevent its own destruction, and still does so, is to me what defines the breath of life. No matter what you believe, one has to account for the fact that every living creature is alive for a reason that cannot be explained by science. Science and medicine may be able to partially explain HOW it is that we live, but it cannot explain (to my knowledge) WHY we are alive, why we bother to exist when the lowest energy state would be to remain dead. To me, this is the greatest evidence that God not only exists, but is the giver of life to each of us. All of this to say that believing in God is a rational perspective, and contrary to many others, you do not have to set aside reason to believe in God. Each person should examine the world around them, the evidence they see, and make a decision based on evidence. After many years of searching, I believe in the God of the Bible.
If you believe in God of the Bible, how much of the Bible do you believe?
Wow. I am speechless that a 'doctor' at Harvard would make so many mistakes regarding BASIC science in just a few sentences. Sounds like you need to go retake intro bio, chem, and physics, the 'arguments' you make are more or less all settled science. You should know better as a 'doctor' from Harvard. I hope you are more literate in medicine than you are in basic biology, chemistry, physics and paleontology.
See? Even "educated" people prefer to suckle at the teat of a god rather than face the truth.
hahaha of course he is not actually a doctor at Harvard Medical School. He just prefaced his nonsense with that to lend it some sort or credibility. HOOK, LINE, SINKER.
Look harder it is worth the effort. Evolution Is an Amazing thing. If you Believe in God, you too can be amazed by God's work in the field of Evolution.
Creationism is bunk. It is a theory perpetrated by liars for personal gain.
The problem is John that all of your points are self defeating. Any – I say again- Any doctor who denies evolution denies their own craft. Viruses mutate/evolve- and our cures are based on those minute evolutions. Sometimes they evolve in less harmful forms to humans. The human body having an appendix and tonsils is clear evidence of currently unnecessary evolved characteristics. Also the idea that we have to have been placed here for a reason is a by product of ego and self awareness. Unfortunately we do not have the capacity to grasp time/space or numbers that is necessary to realize how insignificant we truly are. Does a human being have more importance than a plant or a star? Is your life more important than then entire planet earth? The God belief exists because of fear of death and our own arrogance. To think a god would create us in his image is the ultimate form of arrogance. To think it would care about everything we do would be even more arrogant. To think human written, translated works by people in power thousands of years ago is the inspirational word of our divine creator is horribly disturbing- only because it is held by so many. Morals and Ethics are by definition subjective. Man is flawed therefor religion is flawed.
Wow... First, this comment is embarrassing to come from someone claiming to be a medical doctor. Second, just because you don't possess the ability to imagine something doesn't it isn't possible. You just need better scope.
How can a doctor say that can't believe in functional mutation when we see it all the time in the simplest examples? Disease bacteria and viruses mutate to adapt and become resistant to environmental influences all the time. Given time and enough trials, life develops to overcome obstacles. That IS evolution. It happens on the smallest and larger scales.
You say that evolutionists have gaps in their data so therefore it's all not true...So instead you proclaim it makes more since to see that there are unanswered questions (like where life started) and make up a creator?? At least there IS evidence for evolution and while not ideal it's arguable. When new evidence is present, the theory changes. Saying it's all magic can't be proven. We might as well say aliens created life or mutli dimensional monsters... Careful when you throw around terms like "burden of proof" because it implies you have proof yourself for your claim...ANY proof...
Lastly, you are clearly not an engineer. Don't try to use thermodynamics in your argument. You clearly don't understand how thermo works. A system (organic or not) can grow, develop and overcome the burdens of entropy. The birth and life of stars... the development of a tropical storm or hurricane. Complex, feeding and energy giving systems born from basic elements, in much the same way as life. The fact they come into existence and eventually die isn't automatically proof of a biblical god. Why did life come into being? Why did Hurricane Issac form? Because all the right tiny elements were there at the right time to make it so.
Cheers from MIT (The other community college in Cambridge)
"The burden of evidence to me lies on evolutionists and proponents of that theory to convince me that it is even a viable theory- I just don't see it."
From a bunch of apes, ya dumb ape.
Awesome man, great thoughts!
To be clear, medical doctors are not life scientists and their training rarely makes them competent to speak on the details of evolutionary theory.They are specialists in the human body – that's it, like body mechanics – even if they occasionally partake in 'clinical' studies. It's a big, difficult, time consuming, and heroic job being a 'doctor', and I'll be the first to recognize their hard work and applaud them for their efforts, but I've met too many 'doctors' who don't know the first thing about evolutionary biology. Case in point.
Sounds like you meant Harvard County Community College.
JT: I'm waiting for the part where you actually explain how John's reasoning is ignorant of basic science. Or is name-calling the best you can do? Atheists seem to take great joy in pointing out how bigoted Christians are, and here Mr. Nye makes one of the most bigoted comments I've ever heard concerning Christians / creationists: "Don't teach your kids creationism, because we need problem-solvers and innovators." In other words, the two are mutually exclusive. Well, this view is not only bigoted itself; it flies in the face of centuries of scientific progress – all made when the entire western world (including the scientific community) held an essentially creationist viewpoint (and yet invented virtually all the fields of modern scientific study). Bill Nye may be the "science guy" but he apparently isn't the history guy. Whether you're a creationist, theistic evolutionist or atheist, this kind of "right-think" mentality that tells us we should not be allowed explore alternatives to the current prevailing viewpoint should bother you.
Doctor at Harvard and yet unable to spell or write at a fifth grade level? Right.......
You don't believe in mutation? I guess you don't believe that there is a thing called cancer then....makes sense coming from a doctor....
" After many years of searching, I believe in the God of the Bible."
So you believe in words that a bunch of men wrote over a long period of time, then other men edited to fit their agenda of money, power and control.
Doctors....nothing but legal drug dealers.
Evolution is not random. That's only part of the equation. The process of natural selection involves the environment selecting mutations that facilitate survival over those that don't. This is a pretty basic tenant of evolution and you should know that if you really are a Harvard Dr.
John,
Sorry you got bashed around by the above comments. I dont usually go about proudly affirming I am a doctor from so and so place. It just shows that you consider yourself superior enough to make a comment that matters. But as a practising doctor, I dont think I will refute the work done by so many scientists far better equipped than me and make a as.sumption that since I dont get it, it ain't true.
I can refer you to a site on evolutionary study though:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2Importantevents.shtml
Now if you want to raise issues, wouldn't it be better that you review the topic first and then attempt to find faults with it? What you and I probably read when were in med school was probably not enough.
This FAUX doctor simply regurgitated every leading DEBUNKED creationist argument. Yeah, he clearly put a LOT of thought into it. Even fell for the thermodynamics fallacy. As if 2 minutes of online research wouldn't reveal to such an advanced intellect why this creationist argument is hokum.
And no, it would be pointless to refute every point he made one by one, because they are typical Creationist fictions.
We don't see any "tried and failed" fossils? EVERY SINGLE DINOSAUR fossil is a "tried and failed." Any animal now extinct became extinct because of natural selection. Even if there WAS a meteor causing mass extinction, the reason dinosaurs died as a result is because they weren't genetically equipped to survive. Natural selection favored other animals in THAT particular post meteor environment.
CNN is actually encouraging discrimination based on beliefs.
I'd like them to right a story trying to say Muslims are wrong about there bible...
Anyway I believe In a GOD I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY BIBLE FROM ANY CULTURE ITS ALL MADE TO CONTROL THE MASSES. But I do believe in God... Not to say I believe God is a big fan of this planet.
*write a story even...
I think the story that humans were genetically engineered by a race of aliens as found in the Summerian tablets has more evidence behind it then the theory of evolution. (they needed a race to mine gold for there planets atmosphere, so they invented a slave race by taking the most developed thing on earth and combining it with there own D.N.A.
What is this country coming to ?????
I think Bill should be investigating the water supply....
– – for America
Saying you have "faith" is a HUGE cop-out.
I have faith I will one day win the mega-millions. That doesnt make it fact.
EVERYONE is atheistic towards something else. Atheist just take it one god further than most. I just dont know how to hammer that truth harder into peoples heads to make them understand where Atheist are coming from. In my thinking, if your dead set on faith in a supreme being, why do you not believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy or santa claus? Nevermind the THOUSANDS of gods believed to be in existance throughout human history.... What makes YOUR god so special?
Seriously..... I am depressed at the percentages of how many people believe in an omnipotent being, in any form, regardless of reality. Perception is just something alot of stupid people cant grasp and that makes me sad, They would rather lay blame/praise on a fictional being to make thenselves feel better than to REALLY look at the reason for a situation.
Really? You get depressed over such trivial and esoteric issues? That's all it takes? Maybe you should seek counseling. Science bless you, I guess?
I did like your statement about hammering your beliefs harder into peoples' heads – makes you sound like an evangelist.
Most people never take it far enough. At first Glance Atheism makes since. Religions often contradict themselves and simply can not be taken literally. Atheism makes since until you realize that it too requires faith. Faith that you know the unknowable.
Agnostics seem to be the most faithless when it comes to religion. They don't pretend to know either way. As for me I have accepted that I will never understand the full complexity of the Universe, The Multiverse or Existence. Call it what ever you want, but God almost seems fitting.
@kenny: atheism doesn't require faith........we just don't know, thus we state WE DON'T KNOW.....but we are trying to find out.
i find it to be mentally lazy to say "god did it" that means ok we know everything now because god did it, then why should we bother making new medicines to cure disease, god allowed/knew that person would get ill and die, so who are we to interfear with "god's plan?"
see how that mental weakness is harmful?