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 "The idea of deep time ... explains so much of the world around us," Bill Nye said in the viral video.
August 31st, 2012
04:34 PM ET
Creationists hit back at Bill Nye with their own videoBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Bill Nye's viral YouTube video pleading with parents not to teach their children to deny evolution has spawned an online life of its own, with prominent creationists hitting back against the popular TV host. "Time is Nye for a Rebuttal," Ken Ham the CEO of Answers in Genesis writes on his website. Answers in Genesis is the Christian ministry behind the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky. Nye's criticism of creationism went viral earlier this week, after being posted last Thursday. "I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, that's completely inconsistent with the world we observe, that's fine. But don't make your kids do it," Nye says in his Big Think video, which has been viewed nearly 3 million times.
Ham writes that Nye is joining in with other evolutionists who say teaching children to deny evolution is a form of "child abuse." That idea comes in part from the atheist scientist Richard Dawkins, who in his book "The God Delusion" argues against exposing children to religion before they are old enough to fully understand it. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories "At AiG and the Creation Museum, we teach children and adults the truth concerning who they are in the Creator’s eyes — and where they came from," Ham writes. "We tell people that they do have purpose and meaning in life and that they were created for a purpose. "No, we are not just evolved animals as Nye believes; we are all made in the image of God." Ham is the public face of a group that academics call Young Earth Creationists, though they prefer to be called Biblical Creationists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the creation account in the book of Genesis found in the Bible. The Creation Museum also produced its own rebuttal video on YouTube that features two of their staff scientists, both Ph.Ds, David Menton and Georgia Purdom. "[Nye] might be interested to know I also teach my young daughter about evolution and I know many Christian parents who do the same," Purdom says in the video. "Children should be exposed to both ideas concerning our past." For the past 30 years, one popular method for Creationists to advance their cause has been to make an equal-time argument,with Creationism taught alongside evolution. In the late 1980s, some state legislatures passed bills that promoted the idea of a balanced treatment of both ideas in the classroom. In 1987, the issue made it all the way to the Supreme Court, where a Louisiana "equal-time law" was struck down. The court ruled that teaching creationism in public school class rooms was a violation of the Establishment Cause in the Constitution, which is commonly referred to as the separation of church and state. A key point between most scientists and many creationists is the timing for the origin of the world. Your Take: 5 reactions to Bill Nye's creationism critique Nye's argument falls in line with the vast majority of scientists, who date the age of the earth as 4.5 billion years old and the universe as 14.5 billion years old. "The idea of deep time of billions of years explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your worldview becomes crazy, untenable, itself inconsistent," Nye says in his viral video. Young Earth Creationists say the weeklong account of God creating the earth and everything in it represents six 24-hour periods (plus one day of rest) and date the age of the earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years. "Yes we see fossils and distant stars, but the history on how they got there really depends on our worldview," Purdom says in the museum's rebuttal. "Do we start with man's ideas, who wasn't here during man's supposed billions of years of earth history or do we start with the Bible, the written revelation of the eyewitness account of the eternal God who created it all?" Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Polling from Gallup has shown for the past 30 years that between 40-46% of the survey respondents believe in Creationism, that God created humans and the world in the past 10,000 years. The most recent poll showed belief in atheistic evolution was on the rise at 16%, nearly double what it had been in previous years. The poll also found 32% of respondents believe in evolution guided by God. |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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The Universe is uncaused.
Life arose from non-living matter without involvement of an intelligent agent of any kind.
Yeh, it begs the question "who created the creator".
yep DNA just happened to grow and then increase, oh wait science says that cannot happen hmm now what
No, you can't say that.
The Big Bang theory doesn't necessarily bar the involvement of some sort of organism, but there is zero support for an intelligent design at any level of resolution, and, as we can already see the lack of any outside supernatural influence at all, it becomes clear that all references to the supernatural are disproved thereby, and so any creature that may have been involved or just a bystander before the Big Bang could not have been anything resembling a god or even have the capability to order the movements of every single quark and wavicle in what is clearly a generally random universe rather than one with a plan that involves the squalid lives of a randomly evolved species on a randomly small planet off in some random galaxy in a universe with literally billions of galaxies!
There are no signs whatsoever of any intelligent being designing anything anywhere that wants anything but a random mess. We find no messages with an electron microscope, we see none anywhere we look.
The stars do not have any pattern. Matter clumps randomly according to certain laws. It forms no words, no pictures, on its own except randomly throughout the universe. Jesus is dead. He died a long time ago, executed for being a heretic and for opposing the Temple priests. He knew ZERO about the future. He knew NOTHING about modern science.
He was a primitive con-man and got the powerful con-men mad at him. That's it. End of story.
edweir69
God has always been without beginning or end. Part of the character that makes God God and you you.
@Jeem so the precise position of the Earth for life just happened, of the precise movements of the stars so precise that we cannot make a clock to keep time better then they do, that just happened also
The article states that creationists believe the earth is 6000 to 10000 years old. The bible also says Adam lived to be about 400. I guess there is a lot to be said for eating apples 🙂
Adam=930 years. The longest lived man mentioned in the bible was Methuselah at 969 years.
And there are people who actually BELIEVE that Adam and Methuselah lived over 900 years. That should end the debate right there. One can't debate with people who have no connection to reality.
ooops .. I spelled "eludes" wrong... I need more coffee
Actually ed, unless you are talking about scripture that is evading or escaping, allude was correct. Not a spelling error since both forms are real words with totally different meanings.
"No, we are not just evolved animals as Nye believes; we are all made in the image of God."...So let me get this straight. The architect of a universe stretching billions of light years and containing billions of galaxies each with billions of stars is a bi-pedal hominid that shares 98% of it's DNA with a chimpanzee? I might have heard of a more self centered and delusional notion but I can't remember when.
we came from mars ....a past civilization collected all the DNA samples of all the life forms on their dying planet and sent it here by a space vehicle (noahs ark)..we on earth will have to do the same one day
Intersting comment...
Actually, we all probably started with self-replicating RNA.
@Myquestion2you – I think there's some scripture that alludes to the roundness (I don't remember seeing the word sphere). But they thought the earth was round alright, round, flat, and sat on pillars.
depends on translation need to look at the original greek to see the word sphere
I think you mean the original Hebrew, and the original Hebrew uses the word for "circle" NOT "sphere."
try the orginal translation of Psalm 77
I'm with Bill. He has whatcha call "evidence." If creationists have ANYTHING except faith, then they are falling into the domain of science, where they fail. We are a non-competative country because we raise our children with silly stories from the Bible that are parables, not facts.
care to share your "evidence"
Evidence? You not being a clone copy of one of your parents, is evidence for starters. And why would I waste more time, telling you things, you should have learned in 3rd grade. Alas, Bill was right!
@my question to you
there were giants in the land in those days, giant lizards like T rex that ate people. T rex and its kind had to go or there would have been continual "Godzilla" moments throughout a short human history
#christopher first thing to know most dinos where not that big, second wonder how the temples in Thialand have perfect drawings of dinos, same in China, Korea, cave drawing in US
Read the account and think. Are you familiar with the process of thinking?
There was no room on the ark for T. Rex and the Platypus is simply a "parts bin" creation.
hmm every here of babies? or TRex was born from eggs how about just take them? please use something my 6 year old would have to at least think for a minute on
It was sarcasm. Happy weekend 😉
I like the Far Side version, where the mammal ark sank the dinosaur ark 🙂
"every here of babies"?
sheesh. And you have a kid?
By teaching a plagiary ridden bronze age fairy tale,instead of modern science,the US will surely have its future generations in great shape in the modern world.
Very well said.
They should have got Shakespeare to do one of the many re-writes, at least it would have had some class.
Religious people will ignore facts and reality when it threatens their faith.
It doesn't make them right.
Ignorance is bliss.
really how about one of your facts lets see what you know
"my question to you", stop asking us for evidence, that lies everywhere around you.
Yes, teaching your kids to be meek little Creationists IS a form of child abuse, UNLESS you plan to keep your kids locked away at home for the rest of their lives, isolated from reality. Otherwise they are going to be ridiculed at college for claiming that all of Creation took place only 6,000 years ago, that humans walked with dinosaurs, and that seedbearing plants were actually created before the Sun, Moon, and stars. Creationism is simply incompatible with science. It causes everything we know about physics, astronomy, and higher mathematics to simply fall apart. The Bible DOES provide us with a moral and ethical framework within which we might better conduct our lives with decency and humility. But the Bible is NOT a science textbook.
and evolution is compatible with science? then why is yet to be stated as fact but is still a theory? When we find things that don't fit we just make up a new group of things like living fossils
My concern is not that people are teaching creationism to their children; people teach kids nonfactual things all the time, like Santa, the tooth fairy, etc. In those cases the children learn the lack of truth through interaction in society. Many of us who have been around a few years can remember different geological hypotheses being taught. That changed as newer information was obtained through scientific research. We were not permanently damaged by the incorrect information we learned earlier; we simply grew beyond it.
The failure of parents who teach creationism comes when they teach intolerance to any other alternatives to their rigid beliefs. I learned creationism from church, but no one in my church ever condemned me for my acceptance of scientific models of creation instead. Friends who grew up in religious communities with less tolerance were told they could not love God & accept scientific theory at the same time. They were told they were bound for hades post-death and had to repent. They were given a choice – God/Christ or science, salvation at the sacrifice of logic. In contrast, my study of science strengthens my faith. The amazingly complex & intricate structure of the universe and its evolution through time compliment my beliefs instead of conflicting with them. Faith & science do not conflict because they are not about the same things. Faith is about one's relationship to the divine. Our human relationships are not defined by or based entirely on science, although pheromones do play a role. Why should a faith relationship be any different?
My question to you: Evolution is a scientific fact. The "theory" of evolution explains how evolution works – it doesn't speculate on whether evolution is real, any more than the Theory of Gravity speculates on the existence of gravity, or the Theory of Electricity speculates on the reality of lightening. Saying "just a theory" is simply a gross misunderstanding of what that word means. Virtually every field of science supports, re-confirms and extents the Darwinian explanation of how evolution works. I'm sorry to say that every comment I have read of yours reveals that you don't really know enough about these subjects to even have a superficial understanding, much less be qualified to debate. If creationists want to have a real debate, they might want to start by learning facts rather than repeating lies. Of course, if they actually learn the facts, they aren't likely to be creationists anymore. Your lies and ignorance are hardly evidence that you have any connection to the truth about the almighty.
You all can fight over this for the next 6000 years, and neither of you will be closer to being right. To waste time trying to convince the other side, is your own self ig norance.
I guess at some point it requires a certain level of intellectual capacity to admit that you lack enough intellectual capacity to understand some basic scientific fact like Darwinian evolution. Like so much of what people on the right believe, it's not so much that they don't "get it", it's that they don't *get* that they don't "get it". They're clueless about how clueless they are. People who, in 2012, insist on believing that "god" created the earth exactly as it is today, exactly 5629 years ago (or whatever) are doing nothing but advertising to the entire world what ignoramuses they are. Apparently they've never known someone who died of an infection caused by an antibiotic resistant bacterium like MRSA or VRE. If they had, then they'd believe in evolution. Antibiotic resistance is a *classic* example of Darwinian evolution in action right in front of your face. Ignorance can be fixed, but stupid is forever. Remember that.
so whatt fact would you like to try?
that whole statement, you are questionning "my question to you" is about you. You don't get what you don't get.
The article has a typo: the universe is estimated to be 13.7 billion years old.
You are right. So is the article, kind of. The earth is about 4.5B and obviously the universe is a bit more.
These religious people are delusional. Bronze age bedtime stories being taught in 2012 . . . ridiculous.
sure and you believe that blood vessels could last tens of millions of years? How about bone marrow that does not just turn back to dust does it? Yet both have been found in these "million" year old bones. Just go play with your hundreds of living fossils, you know the things that have been extinct for "millions" of years but yet somehow we find them alive.
I'd love to discuss this, but you don't even make sense.
Go read more than one book.
Seriously?!!!? You don't understand what a fossil is?!?!?
@manbearpig
I don't understand what fossils have to do with people reading bronze-age stories and thinking they are real. Makes as much sense as bringing up fossils in a discussion on whether harry potter is real.
Also, I think your ! and ? key are stuck.
@Bob I have read many and yes they have found soft bone marrow in fossils so my question is how
"my question to you", your reference manual is the Flintstones?
@manbearpig
Any links to these studies or should I just take your word for it?
Still waiting for that bible verse on how the earth was a ball... I notice you skipped that one.
@Manits you ever hear of Switzer (sp) she accidently dropped a TREX bone and suprise what she found. But you need to read to know any of this
@Bob Psalm 77
Bill Nye the Science Guy.
Many people thought that the World was flat even after Columbus discovered America...Creationists simply need a few more hundreds of years to get it right and see the light.
the funny part of your post is that the Bible stated the Earth was round (a sphere in fact) long before science did. But yu don't read for yourself so you would not know that
@my question to you
The bible said it was a CIRCLE (2 dimensional shape), which not the same thing as a SPHERE (3 dimensional shape). Try reading it sometime.
It was the church who championed the flat earth stuff to begin with.
You fail at geometry, history, science, reading and religion all at once. Well done.
@Bob try again so sorry the Bible calls the world a sphere, 3D next time you come to please try to bring the truth
@my question to you
Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the CIRCLE of the earth
Please quote the verse you are referring to.
my question.... you have it wrong. I know I won't convince you, but you need to go to a place where knowledge is actually discovered. The church is about faith, not knowledge. You have to know that these are different.
Isaiah 40:22 in the Old Testament of the Bible says:
It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in.
Now, even if you mean circle = sphere:
The shape of the earth may already have been known in Isaiah's time. Ancient astronomers could determine that the earth was round by observing its circular shadow move across the moon during lunar eclipses. There is some suggestion that the Egyptians knew of the earth's spherical size and shape around 2550 B.C.E. (more than a thousand years before Moses). The Greek philosopher Pythagoras, who was born in 532 B.C.E., defended the spherical theory on the basis of observations he had made of the shape of the sun and moon (Uotila 1984). If this information was known by educated Greeks and Egyptians during biblical times, its use by Isaiah is nothing special.
No one has it right today. When it comes to the how and when. Throughout history science and theiest have said this is how it all is... Both groups have revised or completely changed their entire position multiple times. Many things that science claims as truths today in the not to distant future will be different. And on the flip side The creationist will also change their views or the how and hwen as more information is available.
Personally I believe God created the universe and everything in it. This does not take anything away from science or discovery, We can only test, study, understand the observable universe. In the future we will be able to observe more as technoligy progress.
I understand when people think creationist are a bit off. Some of the issue is in the delivery. for example if I ask different people where the universe came from I could get completely answers from the eternal universe...big bang....God did it... And in my opinion all thoes answers are partially correct.
We are all people we all have our issues. Just because someone has a firmer grasp of currently excepted scientific theaory then someone else does not imply being superior to them. All people should be treated with respect this is more important then anything else. And their is a flip side also just because someone goes to church, does community service also does not make you superior, we are all people.
@simran
May... suggested... if...
Sounds like a lot of assumptions in there. They 'may' have had green hair and 3 arms, since no-one has said they didn't. It has been suggested you are an idiot. Must be true.
@Bob try Psalm 77
As for the discovery of the earth being a sphere the first know measurement I have heard of was around 200Bc by Eratosthenes a greek from alexandria. there is evidence that people know the earth was round much earlier.
@i have a question
Ok, which verse because I have it here and there's nothing about earth being a sphere.
King James Version, for reference.
@eric
I'm not disputing that, I'm just saying it's not in the bible. Because it's not.
Nowhere does it say the earth is a ball or a sphere.
Bob this is about all I can find
http://bible.cc/psalms/77-18.htm
Bob I am on your side we need to be careful though As I am studying more and looking into the origional language some of the things I thought have grown or changed.
@Bob,
My as.supmtions are just like your as.sumptions that the circle in the Bible may have been meant to be a sphere.
Sounds like you may be a fool too!
@eric
Thanks for illustrating how much of the bible is just made up. Just keep rewriting it until it says what you want it to I guess...
@simran
I said it WASN'T a sphere in the bible. I said it was a CIRCLE.
@Bob,
References available on request:
The concept of a spherical Earth dates back to ancient Greek philosophy from around the 6th century BC, but remained a matter of philosophical speculation until the 3rd century BC when Hellenistic astronomy established the spherical shape of the earth as a physical given. The Hellenistic paradigm was gradually adopted throughout the Old World during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages.
Early Greek philosophers alluded to a spherical Earth, though with some ambiguity. Pythagoras (6th century BC) was among those said to have originated the idea, but this may reflect the ancient Greek practice of ascribing every discovery to one or another of their ancient wise men.
After the 5th century BC, no Greek writer of repute thought the world was anything but round.
Plato (427–347 BC) travelled to southern Italy to study Pythagorean mathematics. When he returned to Athens and established his school, Plato also taught his students that Earth was a sphere though he offered no justifications. If man could soar high above the clouds, Earth would resemble "one of those balls which have leather coverings in twelve pieces, and is decked with various colours, of which the colours used by painters on earth are in a manner samples."
Aristotle observed "there are stars seen in Egypt and [...] Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions." Since this could only happen on a curved surface, he too believed Earth was a sphere "of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent." (De caelo, 298a2–10)
Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth:
Every portion of the Earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere. (De caelo, 297a9–21)
Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and
The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round. (De caelo, 297b31–298a10).
NOW I SINCERELY HOPE YOU DO KNOW THAT EARTH ACTUALLY IS NOT EVEN A SPHERE ! IT IS ELLIPSOIDAL!!!
@Bob,
Thanks for provoking me to read more on the subject. 🙂
Peace!
Whats up with the word police today ate 2 posts now.
Short short version translation differes slightly depending on when in history it was done on the style of translation done... litteral verse context of a hybrid.
next piece
If you were to translate to modern languages say ja paneese to english litteraly you would have a pretty wierd sentenance
it is much greater as the languages age.
there is contextual translation which puts it in modern vernacular
some ancient words do not have a modern day equilelent
@Eric,
Simple suggestion – copy the post before you hit post. If it does not show, paste and proof read for the words.
Thanks just started that.
speaking of proof reading wow I am suffering from too much coffee typing. Language was never my strength though.
Hey, CNN! The universe is NOT 4.5B years old. I think you may have a serious typo in the 'graf which starts with "Nye's argument..."
This article would have been more balanced if it mentioned old earth creationism.
No, because that's just as much of a fairy tale as any other kind of creationism. Evolution is not a theory, it is scientific fact. It is backed up by *massively* overwhelming, irrefutable scientific evidence.
Creationists would argue that blue is red and night is day.
@ItSo are you kidding me you don't know that evolution is still just a theory? really did your teachers even graduate school?
@my question to you
That's not what theory means. Gravity is a theory... do you think if I don't believe it I can fly?
Oops.. theory of flight... guess airplanes aren't real.
In science, a theory is something that explains a set of facts. Things fall down = fact. Gravity explains it = theory.
Seriously, take a few minutes to learn what you are talking about.
creationism is severely outdated and just plain wrong, creationists have zero arguement against evolution since evolution isnt exactly a theory anymore its fact
Have you read any recent creationist literature? How do you know it is wrong if you haven't? Might I suggest http://shop.reasons.org/Creation-Evolution-101-p/b0502.htm