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Creationists hit back at Bill Nye with their own video
"The idea of deep time ... explains so much of the world around us," Bill Nye said in the viral video.
August 31st, 2012
04:34 PM ET

Creationists hit back at Bill Nye with their own video

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - Bill Nye's viral YouTube video pleading with parents not to teach their children to deny evolution has spawned an online life of its own, with prominent creationists hitting back against the popular TV host.

"Time is Nye for a Rebuttal," Ken Ham the CEO of Answers in Genesis writes on his website. Answers in Genesis is the Christian ministry behind the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky.

Nye's criticism of creationism went viral earlier this week, after being posted last Thursday.

"I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, that's completely inconsistent with the world we observe, that's fine. But don't make your kids do it," Nye says in his Big Think video, which has been viewed nearly 3 million times.

Ham writes that Nye is joining in with other evolutionists who say teaching children to deny evolution is a form of "child abuse." That idea comes in part from the atheist scientist Richard Dawkins, who in his book "The God Delusion" argues against exposing children to religion before they are old enough to fully understand it.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

"At AiG and the Creation Museum, we teach children and adults the truth concerning who they are in the Creator’s eyes — and where they came from," Ham writes. "We tell people that they do have purpose and meaning in life and that they were created for a purpose. "No, we are not just evolved animals as Nye believes; we are all made in the image of God."

Ham is the public face of a group that academics call Young Earth Creationists, though they prefer to be called Biblical Creationists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the creation account in the book of Genesis found in the Bible.

The Creation Museum also produced its own rebuttal video on YouTube that features two of their staff scientists, both Ph.Ds, David Menton and Georgia Purdom.

"[Nye] might be interested to know I also teach my young daughter about evolution and I know many Christian parents who do the same," Purdom says in the video. "Children should be exposed to both ideas concerning our past."

For the past 30 years, one popular method for Creationists to advance their cause has been to make an equal-time argument,with Creationism taught alongside evolution. In the late 1980s, some state legislatures passed bills that promoted the idea of a balanced treatment of both ideas in the classroom.

In 1987, the issue made it all the way to the Supreme Court, where a Louisiana "equal-time law" was struck down. The court ruled that teaching creationism in public school class rooms was a violation of the Establishment Cause in the Constitution, which is commonly referred to as the separation of church and state.

A key point between most scientists and many creationists is the timing for the origin of the world.

Your Take: 5 reactions to Bill Nye's creationism critique

Nye's argument falls in line with the vast majority of scientists, who date the age of the earth as 4.5 billion years old and the universe as 14.5 billion years old.

"The idea of deep time of billions of years explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your worldview becomes crazy, untenable, itself inconsistent," Nye says in his viral video.

Young Earth Creationists say the weeklong account of God creating the earth and everything in it represents six 24-hour periods (plus one day of rest) and date the age of the earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years.

"Yes we see fossils and distant stars, but the history on how they got there really depends on our worldview," Purdom says in the museum's rebuttal. "Do we start with man's ideas, who wasn't here during man's supposed billions of years of earth history or do we start with the Bible, the written revelation of the eyewitness account of the eternal God who created it all?"

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Polling from Gallup has shown for the past 30 years that between 40-46% of the survey respondents believe in Creationism, that God created humans and the world in the past 10,000 years.

The most recent poll showed belief in atheistic evolution was on the rise at 16%, nearly double what it had been in previous years. The poll also found 32% of respondents believe in evolution guided by God.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Creationism • Science

soundoff (5,973 Responses)
  1. ScottCA

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzQpeqE_wLg&w=640&h=360]
    The Higgs Boson,
    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKz07k04D70&w=640&h=360]

    Faith means to believe in something for no good reason (otherwise known as insanity). Religion explains and predicts nothing in the natural world. Logic and reason (otherwise known as sanity) applied to deduce reality (otherwise called science) correctly predict reality.

    September 4, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
    • Athy

      Wow, that sums it up very succinctly. Thank you.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:14 am |
  2. Rick James

    I wonder how God thinks. He can rationalize unbelief in him a worse offense than murdering someone else. I mean, you could get Clarence Darrow or Johnie Cochran as lawyers and you would still be screwed if you didn't believe in him and still lived a decent life. It boggles the mind how anyone could believe this stuff in 2012, but I guess that ignorance truly is bliss.

    September 4, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Decent means life with in confine of human limit, limit mean truth absolute and truth is God, if one believed in limit, truth absolute, he is of God, or be in hindrance to truth absolute and be a hindu, in denial of truth absolute in your hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, and can never be of truth absolute, Allah, the limit absolute. Very simple. visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html to learn more

      September 4, 2012 at 11:40 pm |
    • Athy

      Agreed. For religious nitwits ignorance is their only bliss. Don't bother them with truth, it would confuse them and upset their "blisscart".

      September 4, 2012 at 11:46 pm |
  3. lamb of dog

    Normally when someone has a conversation with an invisible person they need mental help.

    September 4, 2012 at 11:20 pm |
    • 2357

      What do you think you are doing when you talk on the phone?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • Athy

      So we can just phone god now? We don't have to grovel in a church any more? Man, isn't technology and science wonderful!

      September 4, 2012 at 11:50 pm |
    • ScottCA

      Using predictive power we can be quite sure that the person on the other end of the phone is as visible as the rest of humanity.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:12 am |
    • Cq

      2357
      A lot of the people I speak to on the phone I've also met personally and, of the rest, most of those are telemarketers who nobody can use as an indication that there is a God. I speak on a phone, I know that other people speak on phones, but if someone were to suggest that aliens, or God speaks on phones I'd be disinclined to believe in them.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:47 am |
    • 2357

      You can't see me or even hear me. No evidence that I exist whasoever. How do you know I even exist? Yet are you talking to me?

      September 5, 2012 at 1:01 am |
    • tallulah13

      Well, 2357, no one wanted to tell you, but I figure it's time you heard the truth: You don't exist. You are simply a figment of the collective imagination, a made-up amalgamation of the responses one expects to hear from irrational believers. I'm sorry.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:11 am |
    • where does god go for vacation

      Are you reading this Clint?

      September 5, 2012 at 1:25 am |
    • Cq

      2357
      But I do use a phone, and I've seen others use them too, so I know that phone users exist and am therefore inclined to assume that any natural-sounding voice on a phone comes from a real person.

      Applying that analogy to gods- I'm not one, I've never seen one, I have no knowledge of anyone actually ever encountering a real one, and 99.999% of them have been ruled out by the vast majority of people as always having been myth. So, I'm inclined to assume that they just don't exist, but if you'd like to make an argument that one actually does then I'll gladly look at your evidence, and hear your case.

      September 5, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • Cq

      2357
      Oops! Perhaps I should have kept the whole thing related to voices on phones and say that robocalls haven't gotten sophisticated enough to carry on an actual conversation with people as far as I know, so I will continue to assume that any voice actually conversing with me on the phone is that of a real person.

      One day you may get your wish in having a God when we become technologically advanced enough to create one. Of course, we would have to cover our tracks and convince it that it has always existed in order for it to work, but that's just a simple matter of programming, right?

      September 5, 2012 at 11:22 am |
  4. ScottCA

    Explaining the evolution of the eye to children. This may be at the intellectual level of most religious people and current republicans If not maybe we can ask the children in the audience to explain it to them afterwards.
    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwew5gHoh3E&w=640&h=360]

    September 4, 2012 at 11:09 pm |
  5. Big D

    To Bill Nye-
    What in incredible bunch of ignorant trite you’ve had to endure for speaking the facts. Some people believe their legitimate personal God should manifest into the reality of others with the addition of an ad hominem if they don’t. Please keep your head up as us free thinkers support your discourse and endurance.

    September 4, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • Athy

      Telling it like it is always takes cojones. Especially when you're bucking 2000 years of religious brainwashing. Go, Bill!

      September 4, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
  6. Chad

    The God of Abraham does not want us sinners to perish.

    God wants reconciliation.

    Choose life!

    September 4, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      I choose life by rejecting religious BS

      The god of Abraham wants us to kill our children.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
    • Gadflie

      You mean that fictional omnipotent cosmic playground bully?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      Chad,

      Come on man, it's 2012 not the time when men "KNEW" the world was flat. We no longer need a god of the gaps to fill in the unknown. Have you read the bible? Have you considered what religion you would have if you were born in Saudi Arabia? Open you mind, stop listening to the head games, and THINK....

      September 4, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Oh, it's Chad!

      'Nuff said.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:37 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      college

      The whole idea that people believed the Earth was flat is a myth. Educated men have known since the Greeks that the Earth is a sphere. No Christian church has ever taught otherwise.

      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

      September 4, 2012 at 10:38 pm |
    • Cq

      Chad
      What you're asking people to do is to choose a myth over what we know actually happened.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:49 am |
    • tallulah13

      Superman wants you to stop with your evil doings and turn over a new leaf. You'd better listen to him; he's from the planet Krypton and is much, much stronger than a human being.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:14 am |
    • Ken

      tallulah13
      Is Krypton close to the Mormon planet Kolob?

      September 5, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Ken
      Kolob is the name of the Sun around which God's planet orbits, but Krypton's sun was known as Rao.

      September 5, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Ken

      Chad
      Abraham was going to kill his own son because he heard a "voice" telling him to. Is that really a good example of how people should behave, or just an example of schizophrenia?

      September 5, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • Ken

      Doc Vestibule
      Oh yeah, I forgot that Smith called the planets "stars" too. Just another example of the faithful being led by the scientifically illiterate, I suppose?

      September 5, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • sam stone

      Chad: The God Of Abraham is a vindictive petty punk. Apparetnly, you find that comforting

      September 5, 2012 at 10:23 am |
  7. Rational Libertarian

    What Jesus fails to realize is that it is the meek who are the problem.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      The Greek?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      Nope, the meek. Let's get those meek b.astards!

      September 4, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • 2357

      The meek don't come round scenes like these. They live and die without the world taking notice. They are the undesirables. Churches shun them. Jails reject them. They are the loneliest of humans, and the least of the brethren.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • Athy

      What's a b.astard? A bastard with a period?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      It's not meant to be taken literally.
      It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.

      September 5, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • Ken

      2357
      Yes, the churches do shun them. In any congregation there are dozens of faithful goers who never missed a Sunday service, never got into any serious trouble their entire lives, and basically lived very "Christian" lives. They're a dime a dozen compared to the rock stars of the Christian world, the continual backsliders who have left a series of victims in their wake, lived a hedonistic life, and hit rock bottom several times only to periodically return to the church for forgiveness and be treated as Prodigal Sons. The meek are as boring to Christians as those who have lived healthy lives are to the medical community.

      September 5, 2012 at 10:16 am |
  8. God Is Creator

    Hey, you can knock me all you want and call me names if you like. Do I care? Heck no, because it will never change my experiences with Him. The great thing is that you don't have to be someone special to experience Him.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Gadflie

      Nope, you just have to be willing to delude yourself.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      No, I think special is the correct P.C word for someone who has 'experienced' god. Retarded for those of us not constricted by the P.C agenda.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:10 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      And if you'd been born and raised in Saudi Arabia, which god would you be proclaiming is the one, holy, and true?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • Athy

      Yeah, right. You're the type of moron that can't use common sense. But, what the hell. We need common laborers in the work force too. Keep up the "good" work. You can always wait tables for a living. Or mow lawns.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • God Is Creator

      That's a good one Cathy, except I don't need to...

      September 4, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
    • Athy

      It's "Athy", as in "atheist". Your attention span, like other parts of your anatomy, seems to be a little short.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:18 pm |
    • FYI

      Athy,

      @G I C is a female.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
    • God Is Creator

      FYI Cathy, my anatomy is in great shape thanks. I suspect yours may be a little overweight though ! I can tell because your words are HEAVY.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
    • Athy

      I wasn't referring to your penis, darlin'. I was talking about your mental capacity.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
    • God Is Creator

      ...and I was talking about your anatomy because there's no mental capacity to speak of. Bring me something better will ya.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • Athy

      But didn't you just say my mental capacity was overweight? Now you're deliberately (or more likely, unwittingly) trying to confuse me.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:25 am |
    • God Is Creator

      No Cathy, here is the thread, read it again dear – "FYI Cathy, my anatomy is in great shape thanks. I suspect yours may be a little overweight though ! I can tell because your words are HEAVY . " I hope you get it this time around, it's not that difficult to understand.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:34 am |
    • Athy

      But you still can't get my name right. How fucking simple can that be? Are you really that slow?

      September 5, 2012 at 12:39 am |
    • God Is Creator

      The name Cathy suits you better so that's what I'll call you.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:56 am |
    • Athy

      But shit, GIC, I made my name as simple as I could for you retarded bible babblers. Only four letters! Maybe I should have cut it down to two, or maybe even one letter. Four letters is over your head apparently. Oh, well, stick to your guns, sweetie. That's all you've got.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:08 am |
    • God Is Creator

      I don't mind Cathy....simple name for a simple person. I don't want to make my sentences too long....you may have trouble understanding ....again!

      September 5, 2012 at 1:23 am |
    • Athy

      But wouldn't Athy be even simpler for you? It's one fewer letter, after all. And we wouldn't want to stress your obviously limited mental capacity.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:30 am |
    • God Is Creator

      I can handle it....Athy seems to be missing something though. I think you are.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:41 am |
    • Athy

      And don't worry about using your long sentences. My dog can decipher those for me. I trained him on first grade Dick and Jane stories, so he's well equipped for the task.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:43 am |
    • God Is Creator

      You realize this is getting monotonous now. Head slap vs head slap. Ass kick vs ass kick. I believe deep down you're a good person so I will not abuse you anymore. I apologize to you Athy.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:51 am |
    • Athy

      And I to you. It looks like San Diego is about to beat the Dodgers in the 11th inning, so it's my beddy time. Good night, sleep tight, it was fun.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:55 am |
    • God Is Creator

      see ya

      September 5, 2012 at 1:58 am |
    • sam stone

      Nope, all it takes is a few handfuls of magic mushrooms

      September 5, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • God Is Creator

      To escape, right ?

      September 5, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
  9. Rational Libertarian

    This video if for creationists mainly, although it's also aimed at everybody who believes in a god who takes a special interest in human affairs. What makes us so special?

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY&w=640&h=360]

    September 4, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • Bob

      Love me some Python. Thanks, Rational.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
  10. God Is Creator

    The God of the Universe cannot be explained by scientific theory or doctrine. He is beyond the realm of science and can only be known through personal experience. The most difficult part for atheists to understand is that God has to be seen to be real. How shallow is that reasoning? We all operate by some measure of faith everyday and yet we take it for granted. You step into your car, turn the ignition and you expect the car to start. You drive, you press the brake and you expect it to stop. You experienced it and now you have faith that it will work when you use it. It's the same with God. You must experience Him first and then you'll know He's real.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Gadflie

      Yep, same for Leprechauns.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Which god? What are this god's characteristics? How do you know this? Why do you believe this? What do you base your statement on?

      September 4, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      @ God is Creator: i think what you're describing, in "experiencing" god, is commonly referred to as schizophrenia

      September 4, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      I don't know what is more absurd, your argument comparing belief in god to belief in a car starting or that you think it is such a good point you should share it.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      hinduism, Non sense, god is truth absolute and known in scientific community as LA, TRUTH ABSOLUTE CONSTANT, No one is more pro truth absolute than science and proven by quantum physics. truth absolute God is not some thing to be seen physically, but presence of "HIM" can be realized in way of of truth absolute, commanded to be successful in this world and hereafter. To knw more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/

      September 4, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • Bob

      hindushit: then why call it god?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Hey, hinduism, ya great geometry leaking bag of waste, why is it that Muslims are promised – what is it – 73 virgins in paradise if they die in jihad? Did you read the small print? The 73 virgins are likely to be hor-ny 30 year old guys who have been raised to hate women, who have never seen a naked bre-ast in their lives, and who are likely to blow up at the slightest provocation. You're done well in uniting the atheists and the Christians – against your extremist views.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:10 pm |
    • God Is Creator

      My point is that I will never convince you He's real by telling you about Him. You must decide for yourself that you want to find out by personal experience.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:27 pm |
    • Gadflie

      Just like all the believers of all the thousands of other gods we humans have imagined over the years. Our capacity for self delusion is truly amazing.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
    • God Is Creator

      Hey Gad, you seem like a smart guy. Do you believe in aliens? Have you ever seen one? How do you know they're real ?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      It is your hinduism, propaganda, Islam has nothing to do with your hinduism absurdity,What you hind, absurd about Islam is not 1n Quran and just hinduism, absurdity of hindu's, lairs to lay some thing on Muslim's and Islam.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:52 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      BOB, Word God is hinduism, absurdity of hindu's, pagan's They believed in GOWD, the belly as their deity, very simple, they deleted letter W and called it God, the deity, Way of hindu's criminals to hind, fool humanity. Reason Muslim to call, what has to be called Allah, The limit absolute.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:58 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying
      Truth unites, hinduism denial of truth absolute divides, miracle of truth absolute, You and your hindu pagan Christians can go to hind, hell united, rest assured, you will never be united, because their is no unity in hinduism, denial of truth absolute, just like hindu filthy marriage of a man with a man, can not produce a baby. Live with hind, filth of your hinduism, denial of truth absolute by your hindu Judaism, filthy secularism.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
    • Athy

      Wow! Delusional beyond repair. Let's move on folks, no hope here.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I think that GIC actually worships that canned meat byproduct called "Spam".

      September 5, 2012 at 1:01 am |
    • God Is Creator

      Is that what it is Tall, spam vs you virus?

      September 5, 2012 at 1:17 am |
  11. HAVE MUD WILL TRAVEL

    Are there any in the scientific community that are embarrassed by the evolutionists? Looks to me they clawed their way to the top of the popularity heap and assumed the role of spokesmen. Oh well, it might bring in more funding by 'inspiring' the masses. Just a necessary evil of finance.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • Gadflie

      Since they are on the top of the heap because the data actually supports them, naah, we're good.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Oh, MUD. MUDDIE. MUDDERAMA! That was a really disappointing post, man! You can do better than that, can't you? Look, you're here defending your faith, right? And it's under attack by the evil atheists, right? Your god wants you to do a better job. But please – this isn't grade school. C'mon, man – give us atheists your BEST shot. You know there are thousands of religious sects, thousands of gods out there. What is your A game argument for why YOUR sect of YOUR religion is the one TRUE religion with the one true god. But don't stop there – remember that you not only have to defeat the other religions, you must make the case that ANY god exists.

      Are you up to it? Think of this as a holy battle. What do you have? Bring it!

      September 4, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • HAVE MUD WILL TRAVEL

      WOW Ethel, I throw a wiffle ball and you go nookie.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • HAVE MUD WILL TRAVEL

      The financing should be disclosed though. The JOKER in CO was on the public dole.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      MUD, it was less than a whiffle ball. It was something an 8 year old would say. Very disappointing, man. I'm trying to get you riled up, with the righteous fires of Christ lifting you in a wave of eloquence that will leave us lesser mortals awestruck, quaking, and generally peeing our pants. if this god and jesus guy are so great, it should be a piece of cake, right?

      So let's hear it – convince me, and save my soul!

      September 4, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      OK – finance? So many churches are just about money – and fleecing their flocks. Disgusting.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • 2357

      I have met Christian researchers and engineers who avoid evolution chatter, mostly from physics, chemistry and CS backgrounds. They seemed too focused on their projects to follow culture wars, too pragmatic to pick up banners. They conveyed quiet humility, which hinted at the immense scale of things. In conversation, their faith seemed to be reinforced by small and obscure nuances in mathematical principles or natural phenomena. They were actually more in the spirit of Darwin than the typical controversialist. Machers are quiet. Schleppers are loud.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:16 am |
    • where does god go for vacation

      2357. Are you trying to imply that scientists really believe your creationist bs but for some reason avoid confrontation? Not true. Scientists believe in evolution not creationism. Some scientists do believe in a god but that is a different issue.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:35 am |
  12. Science?

    If the universe started from a single object with almost infinite mass. What happened to cause it to do anything other than be what it was? When this point existed did our current laws of physics exist also? or did they come after?

    September 4, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
    • Athy

      Some laws of physics existed, but probably quite different than our current laws. Cosmologists and particle physicists are making progress on this, but it's not ready for prime time yet.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
  13. A reason to believe

    I've read here several times that science does not use faith but instead reason and logic. But I have noticed that to argue against faith you use neither. Reason and logic do not in themselves argue against the existance of God. In fact they cannot do it. I could easily ask that you prove God does not exist but you would not be able to do that. That in itself does not prove that he does exist however. Scientific discovery up to this point has not conclusively ruled out the possible existance of a creator (even if it is not necessarily a Christian/Jewish one), but many seem to believe that to yell out science! is all that is necessary to prove it. Yes it is necessary to either Believe in God or to Believe he does not exist. In other words it requires faith. Don't get too upset though, according to Websters faith is defined as "Something that is believed especially with strong convinction" – though some of you have made up your own definitions (People who define their own words are difficult to understand)

    September 4, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • Spencer

      And what you don't seem to realize is that Science does not care if there is a god, gods or not. Philosophy is not a realm that science covers.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Reason – it does not take "faith" for someone to question the existence of a supposed god because of a lack of evidence. Does it take "faith" to not believe in the tooth fairy? Of course not. Science doesn't say that there is no god. In fact, "science" doesn't "say" anything – it is simply a method of attempting to come to a greater understanding of things. But when someone religious makes a positive, affirmative statement – ie there is a god, it exists, and here are it's characteristics, and what it thinks,and what it wants, etc, etc, etc, then someone wishing to look at that assertion from a scientific point of view will take the default position of, okay, you're alleging something – prove it, with evidence. Saying that faith is required is simply an attempt to put religion and science on the same footing. Guess what/ They're not even in the same ball park.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Athy

      Total lack of any proof whatsoever that there is a god is proof enough for me that there is no god of any kind. Proving a negative is nearly impossible (and generally unnecessary if there is no proof for the positive). Take as an example "prove there Is life elsewhere in the universe". All one would have to do is find just one extraterrestrial planet somewhere to prove this. But to prove the negative (no extraterrestrial life) one would have to inspect every planet in the universe, clearly a far more difficult task. So far there has been no proof of a god (and don't come back using the bible, that doesn't stand up in this court).

      September 4, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • One one

      Science has not yet conclusively ruled out the possibility that Elvis rose from the dead and now rules over a civilization of robot aliens on a distant planet that worship jail house rock. Does that mean that science is invalid and all the stories in the bible are true?

      September 4, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      To say truth absolute does not exist is hinduism, denial of truth absolute, to exist, fundamental requirement is true value and true process, otherwise thing can not form in their intended form, science is a witness and a way dependent on truth absolute, and being a medium to learn truth of a matter, every thing is dependent on truth absolute, and truth absolute is the God, one has to be mentally hindu, blinded to deny fact of truth absolute in whole universe. Please visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/ to learn more.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      Here's one of those things that Helpful Hints should copy and paste on every page:

      1) Most atheists do not ague that with 100% certainty that god does not exist. In fact, the ones who make this claim are quite rare. Rather, these atheists await verifiable evidence of a god. None has been presented. Even the satanist Richard Dawkins falls into this category.

      "In fact they cannot do it. I could easily ask that you prove God does not exist but you would not be able to do that. That in itself does not prove that he does exist however."

      this brings me to #2...
      Actually, this one is to protect you, more than it is us. Because if this is your reasoning then you must also be saying that if you can't prove, Zeus, leprechauns, fairies or magical bunnies with fluffy rainbow tails don't exist, then they must exist too. Believe it or not, some of these "logics" and "science-y" stuffs are there to help you not expose your ignorance. Apply generously. Repeat.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I was told recently that people do not choose to believe. Apparently they just do. That hasn't been my experience, but it may be so for a lot of people. If, as you say, one either Believes in God or Believes he does not exist, do you think that is by choice?

      September 4, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Elvis?? Robots???? Cool!

      September 4, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • A reason to believe

      At least some of you are thinking clearly on the topic and came to the same conclusions. Science cannot prove the non-existance of God. But you also cannot prove that vast majority of science. That is because it is not proven science, it is theoretical science. That is something creationists have on you. They believe God is a fact. You believe the universe started one way and one day you hope someone might prove it. Until then lets keep stacking our theories like playing cards and hoping a soft breeze doesn't blow it all away.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @A reason to believe,

      "But you also cannot prove that vast majority of science. That is because it is not proven science, it is theoretical science."

      Factually inaccurate. But, why let a thing like facts get in the way of personal conjecture.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • A reason to believe

      Stating that something if factually inaccurate does not prove your argument.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      You set up a false dicotomy,

      A person does not either have to believe in god or believes there is no god. The time to positively believe something is when the claim has met the burden of proof,.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @A reason to believe,

      "But you also cannot prove that vast majority of science. That is because it is not proven science, it is theoretical science."

      For starters...
      1) " you also cannot prove that vast majority of science." This assumes that you know with 100% certainty that one cannot possibly prove the vast majority of science. How do you know this? How do you know that the things that are mysteries today can't be solved tomorrow? Magical time machine? Prophet? Enlighten us. History has shown us, that what once was referred to as god, by people like Newton, and Galileo, has been later explained by using the scientific method, math and scientific reasoning.

      2) Most science is not theoretical science. Think about it for a minute... without the foundation of physical science you would it would not be possible to even build theoretical science. It's silly to think otherwise. For a personal experiment, look around you. All of what you see that isn't alive is a product of science and math. Actually what you are describing is "religion". There is zero foundation in the "proven" and 100% existence in the "theoretical".

      I would venture to say that you have very little understanding of the sciences and that probably have a very limited understanding of the word "theory". I have no evidence to support this as of yet, but I'm sure you'll provide it for us shortly.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:27 pm |
    • 2357

      Tomtom
      It is true that one cannot believe by choosing to believe. Willful faith is blind faith.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      But that is exactly what many here are insisting all "must" do.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @Tom, tom

      Belief is NOT a choice, but a compulsion. A person can be compelled to believe almost anything, but a person cannot choose to believe. When a person is asking you to believe, they are asking you to find the reasons to believe compelling. But an intelligent person who weighs arguments and evidence critically cannot choose to believe something stupid or for stupid reasons.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • 2357

      The only control we have, for us to exercise, is to hear. Thank God we can hear.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Hey Moby,

      Someone tried to recruit me into a multi-level marketing scheme years ago when I was on a project addressing what kind of information systems might be subject to viral attack. The project related to Turing machines and was pretty abstract, but I saw a really down-to-earth example in this fellow. He really had something running on him! It occurred to me then that skepticism is something machines lack and we should always have. We can ask how plausible things are before we take them on as beliefs. Off and on I've wondered how to make a skeptical machine.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • Athy

      Yeah, Alan Turing was many years ahead of his time. He was also instrumental in cracking some of the German encryption codes during WW2.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
  14. Truth

    "[Nye] might be interested to know I also teach my young daughter about evolution and I know many Christian parents who do the same," Purdom says in the video. "Children should be exposed to both ideas concerning our past."

    This sounds a lot like...

    "[Nye] might be interested to know I also teach my young daughter about h.o.mo.se.xuals and I know many Christian parents who do the same," Purdom says in the video. "Children should be exposed to both ideas and told how horrible gay's are."

    There are NO Christians that present evolution as a stand alone theory or as anything close to the reallity. Much like they "teach" their kid's about gay's, they indoctrinate their children to hate atheists and anyone who does not accept their God as fact, even when they have absolutely zero evidence to support their God theory.

    September 4, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Bruce naylor

      Oh, cute, an eye witness account from god. Gee, a monotheistic god didn't show up until the Jews invented him except for one try in Egypt by Amenhotep? Before 6,000 years ago; we had animism, paganism, pantheism, and polytheism long before monotheism! The Hindus had their gods, Egyptians their gods, Romans their gods, and the Norse had another set altogether. Yet a monotheistic god saw creation as he invented it. A the bible's oldest book is from about 2,600 BCE. Bad math here!!!!

      September 4, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Jew's, self centered did not invent "HIM" but denied "HIM" truth absolute God in their hindu Judaism, filthy self center ism, truth absolute, God existed way before human or hindu Jew's,, criminal secular's ever existed to spew their hindu Judaism filthy secularism, nothing can exist without truth absolute, God. Visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/ to learn more.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Hey, hinduism – trying to be generous here. Is it fair for me to assume that English is not your first language? Cause you're not making a lot of sense, grammatically speaking

      September 4, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Hey, hinduism – I actually went to your website. Let's see if i can sum it up for the rest of the board:

      1. Hindus are racists; and

      2. You are a raving lunatic religious nutbar (who is also really into geometry).

      September 4, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Every one has right to have an opinion, including hindu's ignorant s like you, as it is said, See, see they not, hear, hear they not they just do not understand, truth absolute is way too much for a hindu, ignorant to comprehend. Thanks for the visit instead of speaking from your hindu soul, ignorant desire, cross examine my web site with facts,

      September 4, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Hey, hindu – do you pray to the same Allah that the 9/11 hijackers prayed to just before they incinerated almost 3000 innocent people?

      September 4, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Word Allah is of Latin language, Al, The La, limit H, most high or absolute, nothing can exist without truth absolute, proven by Quantum physics, yes I prey to Allah, truth absolute, 9/11 was an unfortunate incident but not any more than commuted by Americans around the globe, if one does not like hinduism, terrorism, he must not commit hinduism, terrorism against other's, or victims have a right to do the same to hindu's, terrorist. If one wants to ply he does not need to cry to pay, What goes around comes around, live with it hindu's, denires of truth absolute.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      @ hindu – 9/11 was an "unfortunate incident"? No – it was religious – inspired mass murder of almost 3000 people, many of whom were not from the United States. There may have been political motivations, but religion was the fuel that drove this mass murder forward. And while I have you on the phone, what the hell is it with Muslims going nutso if someone shows a picture, or a cartoon, of Mohammed? Grow up! And wasn't he a child molester? 9 year old wife and all that?

      September 4, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Isalm is not hinduism corruption of truth absolute, religion but Theen Allah, Consti tution of truth absolute, foundation of justice system based on La, the limit absolute, it is hinduism, absurdity to call Islam a religion, hinduism, fabrication of hindu Jew's criminal secular of Egypt and Persia, Word constant in Hebrew, Aramaic is Theen Ellah, Theen Ellohim and Theen Allah, consti tution of truth absolute. It is you without any knowledge spewing your hinduism, ignorance to call some thing, Islam never is or never was or never will be , hinduism, religion corruption of truth absolute. Islam is about rights, limits and duties, responsibilities. Check it on my web site http://www.limitisthetruth.com/, if I have used this hindu corrupted word religion in context of Islam.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      To take action is in your hand but reaction is in other's hand, one who does not respect others, does not deserve any respect, disrespect others in your hindu Judaism, filthy secularism, get ready to pay for your hinduism, criminality, nothing you can do about it, a hindu criminal deserve's what he asked for, same in kind, if a hindu criminal want to play, be ready to pay, specially with Muslims.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • Truth

      w. t. f. How did my post get so hija.cked? There is not a single response out of 10 replys that has anything to do with my post. To filthy hindu poster, Islam is just like hinduism and Christianity and every other religion on the planet, absolutely cho.ck full of grade A horse s .h .i .t mixed with racism, hate, lies and violence. Fvck you Hindufilthymuslimchristian.d.b.a.g and the three legged camel you limped in on.

      September 5, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
  15. GodFreeNow

    Question: Which Troll is worse, @hinduism source of hindufilthyracism, or @Atheism is not healthy for children or all living things?

    September 4, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • Truth

      Is this like "Which wieghs more? A pound of feathers or a pound of bricks?..."

      September 4, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • One one

      Well "atheism is not healthy" by his/her screen name opens with an attack at atheists. I have not seen that from "Hinduism" yet. Also, I believe " atheism is not healthy" uses multiple screen names to give an impression of different responders supporting his/her message. If that is the case, it's unethical. Therefore, my vote goes to "atheism is not healthy"

      September 4, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      So . . . . if hinduism weighs as much as a duck . . . he's made of wood?

      And therefore?

      He's a witch! Burn him! Burn him!

      September 4, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • Athy

      What if they are one and the same?

      September 4, 2012 at 8:47 pm |
  16. ScottCA

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyID7E1SjjY&w=640&h=360]
    Atheists and Agnostics should be doing more to confront the dangers of islam.

    September 4, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/ to find truth of Islam.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quanti-ty Surveying

      Overheard at the Fundamentalist Islamic Suicide Bomber's Class:

      Instructor: Okay, class – I'm only going to show you this once

      September 4, 2012 at 8:06 pm |
    • Bob

      Thanks, ScottCA.

      And RIP Christopher Hitchens; thanks for a life well, fully, and brilliantly lived.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:06 pm |
  17. ScottCA

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYiCizcm9wA&w=640&h=360]

    September 4, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
  18. Tommy

    I finally figured out who Nye reminds me of.
    He looks just like Eb on Green Acres.

    September 4, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • ScottCA

      That's a bit of a stretch for me. The eye brows are quite different. When Nye was younger? or when the actor who played Eb got older?

      September 4, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
    • Tommy

      Well, he's got that skinny aerodynamic head and the bow tie
      and he's got that inbred look about him.
      He's not Eb's twin brother, sure.
      But he looks enough like him to be Eb's older brother.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      I think Nye looks like 'Howdy Doodie'.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
  19. ScottCA

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7tQIB4UdiY&w=640&h=360]
    Information worth knowing.

    September 4, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      A good video:
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUFUujSNpEU&w=640&h=360]

      September 4, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • ScottCA

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM5n8jESUEk&w=640&h=360]

      September 4, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • ScottCA

      B4bigbang cute name and helps to remind us that science has a fairly good idea what was there before the big bang now.

      how the universe was created, A working theory that predicts everything in existence.
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjBIsp8mS-c&w=640&h=360]
      "We think we have solved the mystery of creation. Maybe we Should patent the universe and charge everyone royalties for their existence" – Steven Hawking.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:05 pm |
  20. ScottCA

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdBJL1c7xUI&w=640&h=360]
    Faith means to believe in something for no good reason, thus it can not tell us what we should do or ought to do, for these require reasons.

    September 4, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Faith means trust, and having faith in book of hindu Mithra ism pagan savior ism, labeled as bible hinduism corruption of truth absolute by hindu Jew's, criminal self centered or science, not being the source of things or destination of things, but just a medium to understand truth of a matter, is nothing more than having faith in forged droller bill. One has to be a hindu, ignorant to have faith in both of them, but truth absolute. GOD. Visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/ to learn more.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      When you were an infant, did you yourself require an intellectual reason to take nourishment, or did you simply partake?

      September 4, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      Btw, my last post was in response to ScottCA's:

      "Faith means to believe in something for no good reason, thus it can not tell us what we should do or ought to do, for these require reasons."

      September 4, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @b4bigbang, So you're comparing religious people using faith to infants? Nice one.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      @Godfreenow: I ask you the question I asked ScottCA:

      When you were an infant, did you yourself require an intellectual reason to take nourishment, or did you simply partake?

      September 4, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @b4bigbang, To answer the question, I believe that the body has its own form of intellectual reasoning. That it, decisions are made on a genetic level very similar to the process of intellectual reasoning or logic which comes from 400 million years of trial and error. I do not distinguish what happens on the level of what we refer to as mind-intellect from that of gene-intellect.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      Ok, godfree, so I think that i can assume from your answer that it is perfectly within 'reason' for an infant to take nourishment without having to reason it out the way an older person would.

      How is it then, in your opinion, that the atheist is unable to take spiritual nourishment?
      How is it that the atheist mindset appears to be one of a lack of desire to search for the incorporeal/non-material, and the common atheist reason posted is because detectors designed to detect corporeal/material things are not detecting the incorporeal/non-material?

      September 4, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @b4bigbang, I can only guess why it appears that way to you. My guess would be that we usually see what we wish or expect to see. It's a basic human flaw.

      Personally, I consider myself to be a very spiritual person. I know Sam Harris does too and recently wrote an article t.itled, "in defense of 'spiritual'". I meditate. I find a great deal of peace, joy and solace in the 'non-being' state. To me this is very much outside of a scientific mind driven experience. I don't however jump to conclusions to say that if I'm experiencing enlightenment (satori) that there is some magical enti.ty behind this experience controlling the strings. Those who have had similar experiences will be the first to tell you that such belief is a trap which separates you from what some call, "the truth of your being".

      Maybe you don't hear about this from atheists because many of us don't feel the need to muddy the waters of the physical world with states of consciousness that may transcend many of the physical levels. After all, in the real world, these experiences have very little practical value.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      Wow, GFN. Knock me over with a feather.
      No, I certainly don't wish to see unbelief, and as for "expecting" it, given the evidence posted here, what *should* I expect?
      You yourself just said that "Maybe you don't hear about this from atheists because many of us don't feel the need to muddy the waters of the physical world with states of consciousness that may transcend many of the physical levels."

      You mention "satori". Isn't that from the Hindi? Is this the state that Zen Buddhists seek to acheive?
      You say "muddy the waters of the physical world with states of consciousness that may transcend many of the physical levels". I believe the average person might interpret that statement as you meaning that "hey, meditation with it's resulting satori, although real, is just something i do that's far less important or relevant than detectable/measurable existance".

      So you don't want to muddy the waters of a "Belief" section with it?

      Also, how is it that you take issue with those who practice theism? I have a friend at work who's a Zen Buddhist. He has no problem with my Christianity, but he thinks atheists are a bit wacked-out. He's not into any gods, he's a modern-thinking Anglo who practices the meditation stripped of its Eastern god mythos.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      Also, GFN, would you please elaborate on these statements?

      "To me this is very much outside of a scientific mind driven experience."

      "enlightenment"

      "...states of consciousness that may transcend many of the physical levels."

      September 4, 2012 at 10:27 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @b4bigbang, I think there are many resources out there that will help satisfy a lot of your questions. I honestly don't feel it's my place to explain it, nor is this forum appropriate for such a discussion. I only wanted to explain, that atheists are not as shallow and devoid of meaning as many think.

      "No, I certainly don't wish to see unbelief, and as for "expecting" it, given the evidence posted here, what *should* I expect?"

      Again, this isn't for me to answer, but making unfounded assumptions will inevitably lead to factual errors. Which is why many of us rely on reason and tests as opposed to our own personal opinions.

      As to why I don't like to muddy the waters in a belief section, if the subject were relevant, then I would address my comments in kind. Most of the belief blogs though have to do with evolution, god and islam.

      "Also, how is it that you take issue with those who practice theism?" I'm not a buddhist. I don't practice any form of religion for the record. However, I don't "take issue" with religions in the sense that I think you mean it. My family members are all highly religious. I am just concerned with the suspension of reality for the sake of the emotionally expedient. I feel the same way about them as I would feel toward any other addict who is lost in illusion. Sadness, empathy, sympathy and compassion. My goal in speaking out to theists is 1) to serve as a necessary resistance to that illusion, 2) to attempt to educate and 3) to serve as an example that there is life after god. It is a beautiful, meaningful, peaceful existence that doesn't require constant feeding or faith to keep it alive. It is in short, freedom. I feel a deep level of grati.tude and humility for all of the experiences that brought me to this place (whether through suffering, being mocked, being educated or even being smacked down by people). So it is not so much that I have issues with theists but that I wish to share this experience with them.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:58 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      GodFreeNow: "@b4bigbang, I think there are many resources out there that will help satisfy a lot of your questions. I honestly don't feel it's my place to explain it, nor is this forum appropriate for such a discussion."

      So your meditation is a highly personal thing that you don't feel it's appropriate to discuss here? I understand – I've had to say the same thing to people on this site too.

      "I only wanted to explain, that atheists are not as shallow and devoid of meaning as many think."

      I'm surprised that no other atheists here besides yourself have spilled the 'spiritual atheist' beans [to my knowledge of course]. Maybe you're the only regular on here that meditates. Are you aware of any other atheists here that meditate?

      "I'm not a buddhist. I don't practice any form of religion for the record."
      If not a Buddhist and practicing no form of religion, then do you have *any sort of idea whatsoever what might be involved in "this...experiencing enlightenment...very much outside of a scientific mind driven experience"?*

      I'm getting interrupted, more on what you posted below in a few minutes...

      I am just concerned with the suspension of reality for the sake of the emotionally expedient. I feel the same way about them as I would feel toward any other addict who is lost in illusion. Sadness, empathy, sympathy and compassion. My goal in speaking out to theists is 1) to serve as a necessary resistance to that illusion, 2) to attempt to educate and 3) to serve as an example that there is life after god. It is a beautiful, meaningful, peaceful existence that doesn't require constant feeding or faith to keep it alive. It is in short, freedom. I feel a deep level of grati.tude and humility for all of the experiences that brought me to this place (whether through suffering, being mocked, being educated or even being smacked down by people). So it is not so much that I have issues with theists but that I wish to share this experience with them.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:40 pm |
    • GodFreeNow

      @b4bigbang, I can answer some of these.

      I am aware of many atheists who meditate. Without making assumptions, I can tell you that most people I know who have had an experience similar in nature to mine are atheists now. It was not until after I had that initial experience that I myself became an "official" atheist.

      If not a Buddhist and practicing no form of religion, then do you have *any sort of idea whatsoever what might be involved in "this...experiencing enlightenment...very much outside of a scientific mind driven experience"?*

      I was always very interested in buddhism, taoism and even theism. I read, studied, meditated, wore magical beads, looked for hidden meanings and secret messages... you get the point. All this did was sustain the dream (illusion) I was living in and served as little more than an anesthetic to the pain of existence. It was in a moment of great depression and loss as well as physical pain that something inside of me "cracked" for lack of a better word, and I was able to see myself clearer than I had before. This probably sounds pretty mystical coming from an atheist, but I've since learned that this is really easy to find with a good teacher and some meditation. For me it was dramatic, but I don't think it must be that for everyone.

      September 5, 2012 at 12:42 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.