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Can Mitt Romney’s evangelical ambassador seal the deal before Election Day?
Mark DeMoss and Mitt Romney at Liberty University, where Romney delivered the commencement address in May.
September 1st, 2012
10:00 PM ET

Can Mitt Romney’s evangelical ambassador seal the deal before Election Day?

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

Tampa, Florida (CNN) – The task of selling a Mormon presidential candidate to evangelical America has fallen to a public relations man who’s not even getting paid for what may be the toughest sales job of his career.

For six years, Mark DeMoss has served as Mitt Romney’s unofficial evangelical ambassador, making the case that born-again Christians should help elect the first Mormon to the White House.

It has often been a lonely job.

During this year’s primaries, DeMoss found himself addressing audiences of evangelical leaders in which nearly everyone was rooting for another candidate: Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry – anybody but Romney.

“It would have been tough for anyone other than Mark,” says Richard Land, the public policy chief for the Southern Baptist Convention, remembering how DeMoss performed in one hostile setting last January. “The audience was stacked for Santorum and Gingrich.

“But he has a lot of street cred with evangelicals,” Land says of DeMoss. “He understands us because he’s one of us. So he did great.”

CNN Explains: What’s Mormonism?

Now that Romney has outlasted the other candidates to become the Republican nominee for president, DeMoss is using that street cred to help the candidate close the deal with evangelical voters in the weeks before Election Day.

It’s unclear whether he will succeed.

Polls show that although most evangelicals have come around to Romney, there’s a sizable chunk who have not. With those voters making up a huge part of the GOP base in swing states like Ohio, Iowa and Virginia, whether DeMoss’ gambit works could mean the difference between an Obama or a Romney White House.

For DeMoss, who is officially a senior adviser to the Romney campaign, the stakes of his work go well beyond electoral politics. He’s trying to open the American evangelical mind.

“I took this on to tackle prejudicial attitudes,” DeMoss says, explaining how he approached Romney about running for president in 2006, convinced that the then-Massachusetts governor was the most qualified man for the presidency that he’d ever seen.

How Mormonism shaped Mitt Romney

“I discussed it with Romney the first time we met,” he continues, sitting in his room at the elegant Vinoy Resort and Golf Club in St. Petersburg, his home during the convention. “It bothered me that some evangelicals said they couldn’t support a Mormon for president. As a public relations guy, I wanted to change that mindset.”

Which is why DeMoss was in front of the North Carolina delegation at the convention Monday morning, arguing that it’s unfair for some Republicans to insist on a presidential nominee with whom they agree about everything.

“My advice to those folks is perhaps you should run yourself the next time,” DeMoss told the evangelical-heavy delegation in a Hilton Hotel ballroom, still abuzz about a powerhouse speech that New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie had delivered a few minutes earlier.

“My wife and I have been married for 24 years,” DeMoss said, “and I don’t agree with her on everything.”

Looking professorial in tortoiseshell glasses, a blue blazer and a white polo shirt tucked into khakis, DeMoss never mentioned religion or Romney’s Mormonism.

But you could tell it was a big part of what he was talking about.

It’s why he told the delegation that he has prayed with Mitt Romney and shared scripture with him and has even sought parenting advice from Romney and his wife, Ann.

After years of traveling and visiting with the Romney, DeMoss told the crowd, “I trust his values - for I’m fully convinced they mirror my own.”

It might not sound like much, but an evangelical Christian vouching for a Mormon’s values in front of ballroom full of fellow believers can be a powerful thing.

At least that’s the hope.

Lessons from the Moral Majority

DeMoss developed an appreciation for Mormons from a somewhat unlikely source: the evangelical giant Jerry Falwell.

He enrolled at Liberty University, Falwell’s school, in 1980, the year after his father died of a heart attack. Falwell, a fundamentalist preacher, would become like a second father.

DeMoss’s dad had been friends with Falwell – DeMoss says it’s unclear if the insurance marketing company his father founded, National Liberty Corp., helped give Liberty University its name – and Mark found work in Falwell’s office after graduation.

By the time he was 23, DeMoss was serving as Falwell’s chief of staff and spokesman, helping his boss run a growing evangelical empire that included the Lynchburg, Virginia, university and a new organization Falwell had helped found: the Moral Majority.

The organization aimed to bring evangelicals back into the political fold, after millions of them had spent decades sitting out elections, convinced that politics were a dirty, ungodly business.

“We traveled the country, challenging pastors to get involved. He outworked staff  that were half his age” DeMoss says of Falwell, who died at 73 in 2007.

Mark DeMoss with Jerry Falwell at 1992 Republican Convention in San Diego, California.

Falwell taught him how political organizing works, from the grassroots to the very top. He took him to meetings with President Ronald Reagan, whom the Moral Majority had helped elect, and President George H.W. Bush.

Among the most important lessons Falwell taught, DeMoss says, is that politics is the art of the possible.

“You’d be hard-pressed to find someone who was more politically conservative than Falwell, but he became increasingly pragmatic,” DeMoss says, eating blueberries from a plastic cup in his hotel room. “He was more practical and open-minded than a lot of people saw.”

As he waged crusades against abortion and for prayer in schools, Falwell proudly linked arms with non-evangelicals. While others in the burgeoning Christian Right wanted to organize only among their own flocks, the Moral Majority chief pushed an idea called co-belligerency: people of different religious backgrounds setting aside theological differences to pursue common political goals.

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“A lot of people forget this or didn’t know it to begin with, but the Moral Majority was a coalition of evangelicals, Catholics, Jews and Mormons,” DeMoss says. “It was not an evangelical organization.”

Mormons consider themselves to be Christians, but some evangelicals and other traditional Christians disagree. While Mormons treat the Bible as Scripture, they also consider the Book of Mormon to be a holy book

There are other big differences between Mormonism and traditional Christianity, including the Mormon belief that the modern prophets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can receive revelations from God. Traditional Christians believe that the period for such revelations is over.

But Falwell’s insistence on coalition building with Mormons and others stuck with DeMoss long after he left the Lynchburg in 1991 to start his own Christian PR firm in Atlanta.

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The firm, called the DeMoss Group, took Falwell as its first client and quickly added business from big Christian groups like Chuck Colson’s Prison Ministries, Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse and Christian Crusade for Christ.

More than 20 years later, those groups are still with DeMoss.

“What makes Mark different than a lot other guys in this business is that he’s independently wealthy,” says Graham, who notes that DeMoss’ wife, April, is also from a family that started an insurance company.

“I find him to shoot straight because he’s not trying to keep my business,” Graham says. “I think he’s more concerned with trying to be honest. He will bill you and then at the same time he’ll make a big contribution back to you.”

Mark DeMoss with the Rev. Franklin Graham, a client since 1991.

Though DeMoss has kept his work for Romney, which is unpaid, separate from the DeMoss Group, the relationships he built over decades through his PR work are key to selling Romney to evangelical leaders.

Graham had never met Romney before DeMoss arranged for 15 conservative Christian leaders to visit Romney’s Massachusetts home in 2007, when he was preparing to make his first run for president.

As the leaders took turns introducing themselves, many volunteered that they had traveled to Romney’s home mostly because DeMoss had asked them.

By the end of the meeting, Romney had made some new friends.

“Sometimes on TV someone can appear one way but when you meet them face to face you see the personal side of him,” says Graham, recalling the meeting. “After I met Governor Romney I liked him very much and even more l liked his wife and his marriage and his commitment to family.”

As for theological issues that interested some of the evangelicals, Graham says Romney “answered those questions extremely well.”

Since then, DeMoss has helped evangelical leaders not only become more comfortable with the idea of a Mormon in the White House but also with Romney’s evolving position on issues like gay marriage and abortion.

“He’s absolutely trusted as a pro-life person,” Land says of DeMoss. “When he says Governor Romney is pro-life, that means something. That helps.”

Land is among the many evangelical leaders who use DeMoss to relay concerns or advice to the governor.

“Mark’s a trusted negotiator,” says Land, who had dinner with Romney and DeMoss last year.

Though Romney’s 2008 campaign was unsuccessful, DeMoss counted it as a victory that no major evangelical figure came out against him over his faith, even if few publicly endorsed his campaign.

Four years later, there still aren’t many prominent evangelicals who’ve come out publicly for Romney.

And there are questions about where Romney stands with rank-and-file evangelicals. A recent Pew poll found that, while most white evangelicals support Romney, a quarter are uncomfortable with his religion. Just one in five in that group are strongly pro-Romney.

Ten weeks before Election Day, it’s not where a Republican nominee wants a key part of his base to be.

Visiting Salt Lake

DeMoss’ case for why evangelicals can enthusiastically support a Mormon candidate echo Falwell’s arguments about why evangelicals and Mormons should be political allies.

It goes like this: If evangelicals are OK with seeing a Mormon doctor or flying with a Mormon pilot, DeMoss reasons, shouldn’t they be OK with a Mormon president? We’re electing a commander-in-chief, not a pastor-in-chief, right?

Plus, fixing the national economy – the No.1 issue in this election – doesn’t really have anything to do with religion.

In fact, DeMoss was drawn to Romney because of the candidate’s unusual breadth of experience as a businessman, governor and Olympics Committee chief with dual degrees from Harvard.

“On a personal level and a spiritual level, I might care a great deal about what somebody believes doctrinally,” he tells NPR during a phone interview from his room at the Vinroy. “In the case of presidential election, I don’t care.”

After hanging up, DeMoss stays on that point: “I hope I’ve shifted a conversation about the religion of a candidate to one about the values of a candidate.”

DeMoss says that voting on the basis of a candidate’s faith is dangerous and inane. He notes that three of the most successful politicians from his own denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention, are all Democrats whom many evangelical loathe: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Al Gore.

Since January, DeMoss has spent about half his time making such arguments, stressing to clients that the work is not official firm business. Still, he suspects that some potential clients have skipped signing up with the DeMoss Group because its founder and president is pushing a Mormon candidate.

April, his wife, who’s checking her iPhone on the bed of DeMoss’ hotel room, says they’ve lost a few friends over Romney, too. But they’ve also made new Mormons friends, and have developed a deep appreciation for the Mormon faith.

On the van to the hotel to address the North Carolina delegation, Mark and April trade stories with their Mormon driver, a convention staffer, about their respective visits to Salt Lake City, where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is headquartered.

Later, DeMoss talks about being turned off by the evangelical street preachers he’d seen on the street corners there, preaching to Mormons in town for the church’s annual general assembly. How could such evangelizers hope to convert anybody in the 30 or so seconds it takes to wait for the light to change?

For DeMoss, the episode represents a civility deficit when it comes to the evangelical treatment of Mormons. He sees his work with Romney partly as a corrective.

Whether DeMoss can help soften the evangelical line toward Mormons is an open question. So is whether he can get enough of his brethren to go a giant step further and vote for a Mormon for president.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: 2012 Election • Christianity • Mitt Romney • Mormonism • Politics

soundoff (1,426 Responses)
  1. tony

    Some wonderful golden scrolls appeared in my living room that say I am the one chosen to be gods current representative on Earth and that he has re-assigned Mitt Romney's entire wealth to me to fund my mission and ministry. Then they flew into the fireplace and vanished in a puff of smoke, so I know they were real.

    Anyone got Mitt's phone and bank account numbers so I can followup?

    September 2, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • G. Zeus Kreiszchte

      No, but what is your religion called? I want to join now and send you lots of money!

      September 2, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
  2. Goober

    Brian Mouland:
    You don't appear to be a rank and file religious freak since you claim to snooZZZZZZZZZe at all sermons, and yet you also appear to despise atheists? Your "god" hates you and you're going to your "hell" for sure! Better turn or burn, son!

    September 2, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
  3. Smeagel4T

    Ah yes... throw away your entire belief system and support Mitt because the power brokers want you to. The devil is in the process of buying up a lot of Christian souls - all being delivered by hypocrites and pharasees who worship at the devil's alter of political power.

    September 2, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • John

      Christians can reconcile anything. Anyone who can continue to go to and support a church (RCC) that systematically rapes children and is infested with pedophiles are the most vile, disgusting human beings on Earth.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
  4. toad

    Are Mormons known for being a bit thick? Here's a thread from this morning. Kolob-job!

    Sorry. Wrong handle: "There's a secret Mormon practice known as the Kolob-job. Ask for it next time they show up on your doorstep."

    karenjay: "Don't be gullible, there is no such thing as the 'kolob-job'."

    Something really seedy: "It's a guy thing – like most things Mormon. You wouldn't know."

    SudCanada: "I've been a mormon male for most of my adult life and have never heard of "kolob-job". Completely unfounded and really don't know what you are talking about. I am also a High Priest, so don't tell me about not being in the right authority."

    September 2, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
  5. G. Zeus Kreiszchte

    I have never (a) written a book, whether on my own or as dictated by an alleged "angel" or "god", or (b) found a book buried in the woods. The book that I have neither written nor found is the only TRUE word of GOD!

    ....since "god" doesn't exist, that is!

    September 2, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
  6. Gomer

    It's a job. Do you care if your doctor is Mormon? I'm honestly not sure if Romney is what the country needs or not, but I'm all for the better man for the job.

    September 2, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • Goober

      What do you think about a man whose family moved to Mexico....to evade taxes or polygamy laws or whatever?

      September 2, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
  7. G. Zeus Kreiszchte

    When will we be able to vote for something other than a FVKKIN Republikkkan or Democrat?
    When will we be able to vote for someone who is openly atheist or even agnostic?

    September 2, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • notea4me

      Never and never.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
  8. G. Zeus Kreiszchte

    Obviously the Republikkkan party is just trying to outdo the Dems on appearing to be "unorthodox" in its selection of candidates, since the Dems have put a "black" president in power (though he is 50% white) and one whose father used to be Muslim though the president was never a Muslim. So now the Republikkkans have to put in a freakin' Mor(m)on!

    If this one-upping trend continues should we be able to expect a presidential candidate who is g@y, transvesti-te, and 100% Muslim or even Scientologist by what? the year 2016 or 2020?

    September 2, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
  9. notea4me

    Mormons are gaining a disproportionate amount of power in Washington. What will happen to this Christian nation if we go with Romney. Their will be no turning back from a Romney presidency.

    September 2, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
  10. spockmonster

    Religion is a mental disease; it's victims seek to spread the disease to everyone around them. Religion abhors free will, and the religious will never stop in their attempt to defeat freedom.

    September 2, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Brian Mouland

      Why is it on every forum we have more boring Atheist preachers than Christian and Muslims

      September 2, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
  11. One one

    I shall now pray. Dear heavenly Father, I pray for you to bring harmony between Christians and atheists. Help me understand why godless trash, who deserve to burn in hell, are offended by those of us who are holy, pious, and obviously god’s favorite people.

    Help the unsaved filth understand that by judging and condemning them I am trying to save them from your vengeful & vicious wrath, of which they deserve, AND I APPROVE, as long as they refuse to believe what I believe. Amen.

    September 2, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • 21k

      don't forget to thank him for stopping hitler's massacre of his truly most favorite people. oh, never mind...

      September 2, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Brian Mouland

      Same reaction I have to most sermons ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

      September 2, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
  12. 21k

    wait, what planet does god live on again? and the planet jesus lives on is different? mormons are so confusing.

    September 2, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
  13. Johnny L

    The author of this article, while bringing out some good points, doesn't seem to have a clue about the difference between orthodox Christianity and Mormonism. Yes, the difference in Scripture is a key difference. But the one about revelation is misleading. Revelations which would change major doctrines don't occur, but most Christians believe God leads them in many different ways. But the main difference concerns Jesus. Unlike Christianity, Mormonism does not believe that faith alone in Jesus brings salvation, and most obviously, they, like Jehovah Witnesses and other religions, do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, the Trinity, the most "are you in or are you out" question of all. And the Mormon doctrine about how we are all "gods" and will someday be a big God and rule our own planet, and that the one we call God now used to be a god who evolved into a big God, like we will, is way out of line with Christianity and most other regions understanding of God. But despite all this, the Mormons are known as people of high moral standards, and when you have to choose between Romney and a president who is the biggest cheerleader of them all for Planned Parenthood and abortion as well as so many other anti-Biblical stands, I think Romney is the best option by far.

    September 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • 21k

      so will he send his sons off to any war he starts? or do they get a pass because of their religion?

      September 2, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • notea4me

      I'll take a liberal Christian anytime. Your going down a slippery slope turning our country over to a non Christian. Never thought I would see it happen. Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water just because of your hatred of Obama.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      What about a totalitarian Christian over a liberal atheist?

      September 2, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • peter

      johnny–the big difference between christendom and mormonism and islam is that they believe in the book of mormon and the koran-Mormons believe that the book of mormon is the word of God which is blasphemy as is their christ–the quran nor the book of mormon is the word of God-I never have nor will vote for obumo but neither will i be voting for that mormon.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • Rational Libertarian

      But the Bible is the word of god so? Any proof for that? Why dismiss the Quran and Book of Mormon but not the Bible?

      September 2, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • spockmonster

      @peter – what a dork, i mean really. your bible is the one true word of god because you believe it is. christians are pathetic.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • austin

      Very true, brother. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is very different that the gospel the LDS church preaches! Jesus is God almighty in Flesh, the Son of God and our ONLY hope of salvation.

      God bless

      September 2, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
  14. lisa

    Only UNAMERICA COWARD BRING FAITH TO POLITICAL DISCUSSION, LIBERAL MEDIA TRYING BRING UP coz part obama DIRTY SMEAR CHCAIGO THUGS STYLE.wake UP , OBAMA ON THE WAY SPIT DESTROY CHRISTIAN

    September 2, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I imagined a really hot saxophone behind this rant.

      September 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • notea4me

      What did you say?

      September 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • G. Zeus Kreiszchte

      lE@rN 2w0 dR|nk m0r& ReSpOn$|bly, please!

      September 2, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hahhhahhaa! I hear an E-flat clarinet, myself.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
  15. lulu

    Obama NO VALUE WORSE FOR THE COUNTRY WHAT HE Got chicago value, CHEAT LIER BLACK MAIL SMEAR DIRTY CAMPAIGN BRIBE ALL SINS, LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS BRING MORMON COZ THAT OBAMA DIRTY POLITICS TELL THEM WHAT TO DO

    September 2, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • notea4me

      Wow. You and Lisa speak the same language.

      September 2, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
  16. HeavenSent

    The lord thy God And his son Jesus do not approve of weird se*x, but do not seem to mind of well, being born that way. The gospels seem to point to Simon having a crush on Jesus. probably, not fufilled. but who knows . Sometimes when my dog gets frisky and tries to hump my leg, well you know. The thing is that you atheist slime balls let the dogs have their will, rot in hell with Satan and the fire and worms

    Amen.
    PS: The golf is over. I am back. Fake HS *28.

    September 2, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
  17. One one

    How many gods are there to believe in?
    God has angels, Satan has demons.
    My god and religion are real and true.
    YOUR religion is just a pile of bull poo.
    They say there’s only ONE god to believe in.
    If you don’t believe, it’s the ultimate sin.
    No more Zeus, Odin, or Thor, MY hero.
    We’re just one god away from the true number…. ZERO.

    September 2, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
  18. notea4me

    Yes, I agree. He needs to denounce the Mormon faith before any evangelical can vote for him.

    September 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
  19. I takes courage and conviction to stand up against religion

    Religious people are like alcoholics, they're in denial and need believing buddies.

    September 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • Brian Mouland

      Okay man we get it youre a Atheist,have a nice life

      September 2, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
  20. peter

    The book of mormon,another testament of jesus christ published in 1830 is not the word of God–It is blasphemy as is their prophet joeseph smith who wrote it. These people are in darkness and chains. However, if romney gets on his knees and rejects the religion of his fathers on t.v i will be more than happy to vote for him. If not i will be sitting out the gen election as i suspect many others will.

    September 2, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
    • MikeAlbany

      I'm sorry, Peter, but are you saying that there is only one true religion? If so, can I safely assume that you think it is yours and that all other religions in the world, past and present, are completely false?

      The fact is that ALL religions are based on fairy tales. In fact, I think it takes incredible hubris for ANYONE to think that their beliefs are the correct ones and that anyone who does not share them is wrong and a blasphemer. Each religion might contain a shred of truth and have some value if they preach good morals, and in this light, we should respect everyone's religion. But to hold the viewpoint that mormonism (or hinduism or judaism or islam) is blasphemous, or even just misguided, strikes me as unjustifiably arrogant.

      September 2, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • G. Zeus Kreiszchte

      peter: Sorry, but your religion, presumably christianity, is also a forgery since the jewish faith that christianity is ripped off from was itself ripped off from pre-existing religions from neighboring regions thousands of years ago (like Zoroastrianism from Persia, for example).

      September 2, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • Chad

      The argument that Judaism/Christianity borrowed from Zoroastrianism is, as yet, unproven. In fact, if any borrowing was done, it was quite possibly the other way around (i.e. Zoroastrianism borrowed from Judaism/Christianity).

      In the first place, the evidence actually indicates that Zoroaster wasn't even born until about the time of the Babylonian Captivity. Kenneth Boa states that his dates are sometimes given as 628-551 B.C. (Cults, World Religions and the Occult [Illinois: Victor Books, 1990], 45). Other scholars give similar, though not identical, dates (e.g. Herzfeld, 570-500 B.C.; Jackson, 660-583 B.C – see W.S. Lasor, "Zoroastrianism," in Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, ed. Walter Elwell [Michigan: Baker Book House, 1984], 1202). If these dates are even relatively accurate then it is quite possible that Judaism did not borrow from Zoroastrianism. Rather, it may actually have been Zoroaster who borrowed from the religion of the Jewish captives in Babylon.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • Goober

      Chad: The very concept of a "hell" where "souls" would be eternally punished did not appear in the OT until MUCH LATER in the timeline. Its first so-called appearance was merely in the form of a Hades-like underworld that the Jews called Sheol. Read. Learn.

      September 2, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Chad

      @Goober "Chad: The very concept of a "hell" where "souls" would be eternally punished did not appear in the OT until MUCH LATER in the timeline. Its first so-called appearance was merely in the form of a Hades-like underworld that the Jews called Sheol. Read. Learn."

      =>you mean, that before Jesus died and was resurrected, that the dead were held in a place awaiting judgement, a place that Jesus went to and preached.
      And that following that, people were then (if they rejected Christ, the atoning sacrifice), and ONLY then, eternally separated from God (hell).

      you mean, like that?

      1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
      ...4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

      thanks for bringing that up!

      September 2, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • G. Zeus Kreiszchte

      Chad: NO RETARD! You can't just keep filling in the blanks with future data....that is, you must regard Sheol in the context in which it was presented at the time (the time it was first written in what would become the "OT"), which is merely an underworld in which nothing happened except that the dead appeared to "exist" in a state of "purgatory" (which is probably where the catholic cult got its ideas). There is never any mention or punishment or fire or damnation.....just void. Quit making $h|+ up as you go just to satisfy what was made up at a later time in your cult's dogma!

      September 2, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Chad

      You have learned a good theological lesson today Zeus.

      God is not willing that any should perish, that is precisely why those that hadnt had the opportunity to accept Jesus were given that chance.

      Jesus was the plan from the start and a "holding pen" so to speak is exactly what you would expect if Jesus was the plan from the start.

      September 2, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I'm glad you're onto theology, Chad. You seem more relaxed and comfortable.

      September 2, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
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