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 More than 1,000 couples participate in a Unification Church mass wedding in the Philippines in 1996.
September 3rd, 2012
11:10 AM ET
My Take: Moon’s death marks end of an eraEditor’s note: Eileen Barker is professor emeritus of sociology of religion at the London School of Economics. By Eileen Barker, Special to CNN With the death of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon at 92, we see the end of an era. Moon was the last surviving charismatic leader of the wave of movements that spread throughout California and the rest of the West in the 1970s and ’80s - other examples included L. Ron Hubbard’s Scientology, David Berg’s Children of God and Prabhupada’s Hare Krishna movement. In the case of Moon’s Unification Church, hordes of young, well-educated hippies left college and their comfortable middle-class homes to work up to 18 hours a day on the streets, selling flowers or candy and urging others to follow a Korean who declared that he was the messiah. After they had spent perhaps years in mobile fund-raising teams and had drawn a sufficient number of “spiritual children” into the fold, these young converts would be "matched" with a partner whom they were unlikely to know (and who might not even speak their language) and then blessed in a mass wedding ceremony with thousands of other couples. Perhaps it was not surprising that many of their parents, who had other plans for their (adult) children’s futures, objected strongly when their sons or daughters started referring to Moon and his wife, Hak Ja Han, as their “True Parents,” in some cases cutting themselves off from their families. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter A number of so-called “anti-cult movements” sprang up throughout the United States with the aim of exposing and combating the perceived evils of such “cults.” Large sections of the media joined in the fight, agreeing with the anti-cultists that the only possible explanation for the young people’s behavior was that they had been brainwashed. This theory led to the arrival of “deprogrammers,” who would kidnap converts, holding them against their will until they either renounced their faith or managed to escape back to their movement. In the meantime, Moon’s notoriety in North America was spreading far beyond the concerns of individual families. He and his church were investigated for connections with the South Korean CIA by the U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on International Organizations. At the time of the Watergate affair, Moon came out strongly in support of President Richard Nixon. And in 1984 he was sentenced to prison for tax fraud. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Moon also accumulated impressive wealth through his teams of volunteer members and through a number of businesses in both America and elsewhere, particularly in Japan and South Korea. His businesses included armament factories, boat building and fishing, ginseng products and a number of media outlets, including The Washington Times. Although Moon is likely to be remembered for all these things - mass weddings, accusations of brainwashing, political intrigue and enormous wealth - he should also be remembered as creating what was arguably one of the most comprehensive and innovative theologies embraced by a new religion of the period. The basic beliefs are to be found in the “Divine Principle,” which describes how the Fall took place when, in the Garden of Eden, the Archangel Lucifer - who had been asked to look after Adam and Eve until they were mature enough to marry - had seduced Eve into a spiritual, sexual relationship. According to Moon, Eve later had a sexual relationship with Adam. As a result of this Lucifer-centered (rather than God-centered) union, their children were tainted with “Fallen Nature,” the Unification equivalent of original sin. According to the “Divine Principle,” the whole of history is interpreted as God’s attempt to restore the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Jesus was meant to get married but was killed before that was possible. Moon, with his marriage to his second (or third) wife in 1960, is said to have laid the necessary foundation for restoring the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, with the mass blessings playing a role in purifying the blood lineage of the participants. Moon’s movement has undergone considerable changes since its founding in 1954. Most members no longer live in communities but live and work independently, possibly tithing 10% of their income to the movement. There is now a burgeoning second generation which, to a large extent, is involved in running the movement. Moon’s children have taken up leadership positions, with the youngest son, Hyung Jin Nim, being the heir apparent. But a split has emerged within the “True Family,” with siblings fighting among themselves for the assets and control of the movement. It is unlikely that Unificationism will continue as a single entity. But also unlikely that Moon’s legacy will fade away within the foreseeable future. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Eileen Barker. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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B"H
MEDIA RELEASE: JERUSALEM ISRAEL
Gantz cautions Iran: IDF can hit any place, anytime By YAAKOV LAPPIN09/02/2012 20:18IDF chief of staff responds to threats to "wipe Israel off the map," says IDF ready for any scenario; Barak: Map of Middle East changing before our eyes, Israel must be prepared. PHOTO: REUTERS
The IDF is ready to reach any enemy target at any time, Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz said Sunday, during an awards ceremony for reserve army units.
"Recently, we've heard threats from near and far enemies to 'wipe out' the State of Israel from the map of the Middle East. In all these, I can say that the IDF is ready for any scenario. We will reach any place, anytime, and defend this nation," Gantz said, speaking at the residence of President Shimon Peres.
Related:
IAF strikes targets in Gaza in response to rockets
'Decreased US presence in drill not sign of change'
In recent weeks, Iranian leaders, from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khameni to military officials, have stepped up threats to annihilate Israel. Khameni described Israel as a "cancerous tumor" and "the biggest problem confronting Muslim countries today." The threats coincided with a message from Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah, who threatened to kill tens of thousands of Israeli civilians in a future confrontation by striking strategic sites with rockets.
The threats came as tensions rose over Iran's ongoing nuclear program.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak also spoke at Sunday's award, saying, "In the past two years, the map of the region is changing before eyes. Nations went out into the streets and toppled totalitarian states. Reality has given birth to unexpected results, more than once."
Barak added that Israel resides in an unstable Middle East, and is surrounded by a "stormy sea, big parts of which refuse to accept it as a member of the nations with equal rights." He said that the "reality in which we live has presented us with heavy challenges, the need to fully use utilize resources, [and] to prepare for all developments that may come from near or from afar."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947by3X6_RU
LET MY PEOpLE GO
??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBZhTaf1oU
OBAMA
??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBZhTaf1oU
LET JONATHAN POLLARD GO NOW LET MY PEOpLE GO
??
And now Lyndon LaRouche can open and drink that 100 yr old bottle of brandy..
Death of a cult leader.
"@David Crosby
"Has anyone ever seen any God ...? Anyone..? No I didn't think so..."
Sigh, once again, pure ignorance...God is not seen because God, like Love is FELT, Genius. And yes I like many others have felt God so once again you have proven to me that God has never come to YOU.
ANNNDDD before you retort in ignorance about the whole if God is so good why does he allow bad things to happen...
Jesus himself said that he was judging others on whether they helped the lame the blind, the hungry and the poor...
Kind of hard to get others to help the poor, the lame, and the blind if he does not allow poverty, blindness or lameness to exist. People need to learn to love so God allows people to learn to love by allowing bad things to happen.
God already knows how to and is love. PEOPLE are the ones that need to learn how to do this.
So you are saying that god intentionally keeps people in poverty and in suffering so he can teach others how to "love". Your god has a terrible idea of love. Love should alleviate suffering, not cause it.
@jk
First of all you like many make assumptions that you have no verification on and on subjects they know very little about. There are plenty of times that God has come through for me in a number of areas of my life (and yes they are verifiable and not delusion or imagination.And yes, before you retort with the tired notion of other gods, yes Virginia I DO believe they exist) So the only thing that you have proven by your ignorance is that God has not come to YOU. And considering your lack of faith there is little wonder as to why as faith through love is REQUIRED for God to act two things which you seem to have very little understanding of.
Second of all, there are scores of people that have seen Christ's actions in their lives as well, I know of resurrections, healing, myself included that have actually happened and once again are not delusion, imagination or hallucination which once again proves to me that God has never come to YOU. After all, a man with an experience is NEVER at the mercy of a man with an argument.
Third, reason is the reason that you never see God's actions as God never comes to anyone who pulls out of emotion. Emotion TOTALLY VOID OF REASON focused through faith is a REQUIREMENT to see God do anything. The only thing that is assured by rational thought is that God will never come to those who reason without emotion.
So my question to you is this...why would a God based off emotion and faith come to people who have no interest in either? Why would you THINK that you would see ANYTHING from a God that will NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER comes to a person who not only is in doubt but is proud of it?
So all you have managed to prove JK is that God simply never has come to you because of your lack of faith.
But to show you how ignorant most here really are about God...
The argument that there is nothing new in Christianity and some of the things that are borrowed from Egypt and other mythologies are true. God borrowed them. If you people had truly understood God as you claimed and were not in ignorance then how come you did not realize that God borrowed those things at the time in order to get the people at the time to believe? God is love and love never looks for its own interests. So God in love borrowed those mythologies in order to gain the faith of the people at the time. He became what they needed Him to be in order to gain their faith and their faith was based off of those mythologies. God like love is not about self and so adapts with whatever the person needs regardless of the physical cost. If love needs to become something in order to gain love from others love will become that thing regardless of how irrational it is.
Indeed the only mystery is the mystery of how come you so called learned individuals could not figure this out?
Has anyone ever seen any God ...? Anyone..? No I didn't think so...
Good riddance.
I am amazed at what this person has accomplished in life. His legacy will leave a deep impact in this world.
Another person with a genius for manipulating others and the clear sight to see that people hate freedom and always want to be slaves to something. Another person who died and will be forgotten, probably sooner, and if later, then after being mis-remembered. Like everybody else.
Even though there are good things through this, u christians got to understand that there will be people that will look good from the outside but can be wolves from the inside. God is the only that we can trust on now and days, because the world is coming to an end. I'm not saying that this man is not from God, I'm just saying that there is a lot of not true so called "Christians" that will try (speaking of the Devil) to change our way of beliefs and our way of following God. The Devil will try to use anyone to get the way he wants. The Devil knows that Jesus, Our God, will be coming soon and he will try to do anything in his power not only get his way but have all the people he can get to, to take them with him in hell. But those lost souls I tell you there is still a chance for you to get saved and be forgiven by God.
In John 3:16 says "For God so love the world, that he gave his only son. that those that believe in him should not perish but have eternal life." God wants you (the lost souls) to have that great forgiveness and to follow him. He send his only son to die for us and to give us that privilege to have an ETERNAL LIFE. It won't be the same when you go to Heaven and have that wonderful gift he has given to every single one of us "humans". But all we got to do is obey and follow him. He is the way, the truth, and the life it says in John 14:6. If we follow him that blindness that is covering those lost souls will see (im speaking spiritualy here and even physically).
Last thing i will like to say is Follow God cuz he is the one we are suppose to believe in and suppose to follow. He is our way to that gift he is trying to give every single human in this world. Don't let that gift not be yours and be taken by another person. God Bless You guys and have a wonderful day :):):)
How exactly do you obey someone who is invisible, inaudible and inactive, and who you know only through selectively edited manuscripts in languages you probably do not know, written decades or centuries after the incidents they purport to report accurately? The answer, of course, is that you don't. You actually obey a living human right now and their warmed-over interpretation of all of the above. Try obeying the brain you were born with and you would quickly learn that the equivalence of God and Jesus that you put forth as self-evident was only generally agreed upon a thousand years into Christianity.
you are right many people will fall away in the last days and be decieved they fail to see the truth and the truth is that we are in the last days the bible is realy happening the middle east you can see it happening all the time right where the bible took place was in the middle east and everything the bibles ever said is happening there and people say theres no proof ha wake up its happening i guess for most people it just comes down to they either believe it or they dont but no matter what they believe that dont change the truth that the bible is taking place over there ive seen the afterlife so i dont need no proof theres a saying it goes like this for those who have proof no proof is neccary for those who dont have proof no proof is possible because there mind is always closed time dont exist thats just a man made thing to i know ive been there time is nothing in the eternal place the government just creates things like that in this world to keep peoples mind closed and confused and thats how the devil works he dont want no body to see the truth i know more then most people in the world and nobody knows bevause there to busy walking around with there mind closed and the things of technology and the government technology aint bad its just the way the government tries to make people keep their mind closed on it most people in the world today know nothing at all and sadly most never will until they go into the afterlife god bless all
Religion is a delusion...
Religion can be a delusion, if your faith is based on something that is not rooted in the historical truth. But if you've experienced Jesus, and had miracles and other amazing things happen to you and through you, you would be a believer too. Why don't you try it?
Karl: Spewing a lot of nonsense this morning. Faith is belief without evidence (in basic terms-you really don't care that what you believe is true). This is the 21st century, not the 1st...try catching up!
True that
I had the opportunity to meet Rev. Moon several times, although he communicated in Korean only (so I could understand through translation). I'm not a dignitary or anything like that. Just a regular college grad, working in Boston, who's parents joined this movement in the 1970s and who was born as a result of that. When I met him, he just shared with me and the other people I was with about the value and importance of knowing God and understanding God's love as a parent. He always framed God's love as real and something you have to bring into your family, society, nation, world, etc. But it's so difficult to do that because of the Fall and original sin. He spoke of how to restore True Love. It's all in the Divine Principle and the words that he left behind (in sermons, books, speeches, etc). You read those, and you get a sense of who this man is. His essence and heart live on through those words, and I'll keep them close to me forever. His wife and children are all 100% invested in the movement's mission, which is a testimony to it's resonance. I know this because they are very transparent and public as well, the senior pastors at our churches, and leaders in our movement's businesses. If you are curious, you can go hear them speak. They care about this world, about peace and have taught me to also live the same way. In that way, I'm eternally grateful and honored to have known Rev. Moon and lived while he was alive.
hey inachan i am a bc just like you but i have never met true father but i have met true met true mother. i was born in the church and i am glad that my parents were matched by true parents. you and i would have never existed if it wasn't for him. i am currently attending 11 grade and i lead a regular life based on purity for those who criticize him u need to shut your traps completely because
1. you don't go to the church.
2.you base your truths on media news
3.you have never met him
so do us a favor and please be respectful because he just died. and to you mama kindless please shut it cause atheism is so not helpful to kids or grown ups. so please for all you critics out there come back when you have visited the churches ad explain to the public how we so called "brain wash our members"
In short, you were born into it rather than testing and accepting it. That only tells us that people can be nostalgic about anything. If you were born into some other religion, you'd quite likely be here rationalizing to us how great and perfect it is, too. People like to pretend religion is about philosophy and truth, when really it's mostly about indoctrinating impressionable children and socializing.
Let your kids be all that they can be. Just teach them that there are:
1. Things we know that are unfounded and most likely political sales literature from the beginning of mankind (all religions); and
2. Things that we don't know a damn thing about (god/deities).
An agnostic approach regarding deities keeps us honest about what we don't know anything about, but also prevents unfounded junk from #2 above (religion) from dirtying up our rational thinking on the matter.
So instead of praying to make-believe characters and trying to get others to follow the political garbage from long ago, just sit down, put on some good jazz, and collect you damn thoughts. My goodness.
I am mama kindless and I approve this message.
You're right, of course, but you must see the downside. The kids may eventually realize that they only reason they exist is to satisfy our lusts and egos and give us the illusion of being powerful and immortal. And we might have to admit that we have children only so they, like everyone else, can suffer and die, not live forever in the puffy heaven we invented to assuage our fears and guilt. Having children is itself a bad religion, and that's the taboo that virtually no one wants to delve into.
Most people are atheists because 1)they are mad at God for not answering their prayers, or 2) they have a lot of trash in their hearts and know they can't face God like that. I wonder which one you are?
Karl Schulz: Oh how wrong you really are. Atheists do not believe in your god or any other god any more than you believe in other gods (guess that makes you an Atheist also). Most Atheists are decent human's only wanting the best for this world without seeing the need for religion to be a part of it. Your statement proves a lack of comprehension skills...try using something called a dictionary-a wonderful big book of words with definitions instead of making assumptions...you won't look so foolish next time.
Sorry Karl, many of us can indeed get through the bad times and dissapointments of life without crying to Jesus.
Mentioning David Berg really didn't help your case.
Prayer changes things.
Hi Prayer-Bot
I'm sorry "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but you assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
Yes, it does not help.
Chad has often cited the "empty tomb" story as proof of the existence of the Judeo-Christian god. In other words, he believes the Bible story. So, I thought I would check it. I did a quick comparison of the 4 gospel accounts to see if they were even consistent. They are woefully inconsistent. Here they are.
Who went to the tomb?
Mark (written about 35 years after Jesus died) – 3 women – Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome.
Matthew (written about 50 years after Jesus died) – 2 women – Mary Magdalene and “the other Mary.”
Luke (written about 50 years after Jesus died) – at least 5 women – Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna and other, unnamed women. At least five women.
John (written about 60 years after Jesus died) – Only 1 woman – Mary Magdalene.
What did they find there?
Mark (written about 35 years after Jesus died) – the stone has been rolled back from the entrance to the tomb. There is no mention of any guards. A young man in a long, white robe is inside. His identi.ty is not revealed. He tells the two Marys and Salome to go tell the disciples that Jesus has risen and has gone to Galilee, where Jesus will appear to them.
Matthew (written about 50 years after Jesus died) – the stone has NOT been rolled back from the tomb. There is a great earthquake and an angel from heaven appears, rolls back the stone, sits on it and stares at them a face like lightning. There are guards posted, who freeze with fear. The angel takes the two women and shows them that the tomb is empty and tells them Jesus has risen and will meet the disciples in Galilee.
Luke (written about 50 years after Jesus died) – the stone IS rolled back. No earthquake, no angels, no young man in robe, no guards. Instead, two men are there in shining garments. They tell the group of (at least five) women that Jesus has risen as he foretold. No direction is given for the disciples to go to Galilee.
John (written about 60 years after Jesus died) – the stone IS rolled back. Mary Magdalene, who is alone, simply finds an empty tomb and flees. No angels, earthquakes, men in shining uniforms or guards are mentioned. She gets Peter and one other, unnamed disciple and they return. They find Jesus’ robes discarded on the floor, but the garment from his head neatly folded. Peter and the other disciple leave, but Mary Magdalene stays, weeping. She looks back in to the tomb and sees two angels and Jesus appears. She thinks he is the gardener until he reveals himself. He gives no direction about Galilee but simply tells her to tell the others he is ascending to the Father.
What happens next?
Mark (written about 35 years after Jesus died) – Nothing. The original Gospel according to Mark ends with the women leaving the tomb frightened and saying nothing to anybody about what they saw.
However, in the forged last 12 verses that were added to the end of the Gospel according to Mark a couple of hundred years later, Christ appears first to Mary Magdalene “out of whom he had cast seven demons.” She tells the others who do not believe her, but Jesus then appears to two (unnamed) disciples as they are walking in the countryside. They tell the others, who still don’t believe, but Jesus later appears to all 11 apostles (Judas is persona non grata at this point and/or dead) and rebukes them for not believing Mary Magdalene and the first two apostles who saw him earlier.
He then famously tells them to go out and preach the gospel to every creature and that he who believes and is baptized will be saved and he who does not will be condemned. Those who believe will speak in tongues and be unaffected by poisons and will be able to handle snakes and heal the sick by the mere laying of their hands.
This forged passage above is, by the way, where the evangelical tradition of “speaking in tongues,” the Appalachian tradition of snake handling and the Christian Science tradition of healing through “laying of hands” all come from – and it’s a complete forgery. Oh, the irony is rich!
Having told them this, Jesus zaps up to heaven and sits at the right hand of God.
Matthew (written about 50 years after Jesus died) – The two women meet Jesus and worship at his feet. He tells them to tell his disciples to meet him in Galilee. Meanwhile, the guards relate their story to the elders and the chief priests who bribe them to lie and say that the disciples took Jesus’ body away. Eventually the 11 apostles see Jesus in Galilee, some still doubting. Jesus tells them to go out and baptize people of all nations and that he will always be with them.
Luke (written about 50 years after Jesus died) – Peter runs to the tomb and finds it empty with Jesus’ clothes discarded. Jesus does not appear to him, but does to two disciples who are walking in the countryside. They do not recognize him and he feigns ignorance as they recount the story of his death and of women encountering angels in the tomb. Jesus walks with them some more, rebuking them and then spends the night with them, breaking bread at which point they realize who he is and he vanishes.
They tell the 11 apostles what happens and then Jesus appears to them. He explains the scriptures to them and that it was necessary that he die and be resurrected. He then leads them to Bethany and is carried up to heaven.
John (written about 60 years after Jesus died) – This is the longest post mortem account of the four. Mary Magdalene recounts her story to the apostles. He appears to them that night when they are assembled, hiding from the Jews. He shows his wounds to them. Thomas was not there and when they tell him, there is the famous “doubting Thomas” scene. This scene does not appear in any other gospel.
Jesus later appears to some apostles while they are fishing. They do not recognize him at first. They catch nothing, but Jesus tells them throw the nets out of the other side of the boat and they catch many fish. Then they know it is Jesus. Jesus eats a breakfast of fish with them and has a strange conversation with Peter. The Gospel ends with the comment that Jesus did many other things that the author did not mention as doing so would be too great a task. No mention is made of Jesus’ ultimate departure.
And if you think that sounds unfounded, wait till you get to that nutball Paul.
Let us not forget....1800 ish years later...Con man Joe Smith's account of Jesus coming over here
To know truth about Christianity, visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/ and fid out Magi ism trickery of hindu's deniers of truth absolute to hind fool humanity.
I pray to a god I don't even believe in that you will shut the fvck up.
The vestiges of pagan religion in Christian symbolism are undeniable. Egyptian sun disks became the halos of Catholic saints. Pictograms of Isis nursing her miraculously conceived son Horus became the blueprint for our modern images of the Virgin Mary nursing Baby Jesus. And virtually all the elements of the Catholic ritual – the miter, the altar, the doxology, and communion, the act of "God-eating" – were taken directly from earlier pagan mystery religions.
Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras – was called the Son of God and the Light of the World, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans.
please visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/ to find out origin of hindu Mithra ism, pagan savior ism, religion of hindu pagan Romans, labeled as Christianity and birth of hinduism, denial of truth absolute by pot head hindu sanatan's, pagan goons to spread hinduism, racism among humanity to make them their gentile, slave.
Please visit my a.s.s to see the correlation between human feces and religion. Truly remarkable.
Chad, hate to embarrass you but;
"Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin."
Chad, Osiris was killed. Therefore Isis was exactly like Mary. It is the same metaphorical excuse for being a s.l.u.t. You are an idiot.
"Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph."
I never argued this. You are an idiot.
"Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent."
Who said they were? Did you read my post?? You are an idiot.
"Claim #4 and Claim #5-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds and both were heralded by stars and angels."
It's the star that we call Sirius (I believe). It heralded the beginning of the New Year. It would disappear for about 70 days, and when it rose over the horizon again, that's when the Egyptians would have their new year. Horus' birthday (along with Osiris, Isis, Set, and Nepthys) would occur in the last 5 days of the preceding year. For us, this happens around the beginning of August. You are an idiot.
"Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wise men.) "
Not true according to legend. Of course we are discussing fictional characters so who cares. You are an idiot.
"Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them."
This is accurate. Prove otherwise. Idiot.
"Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed. "
12 year olds are chronic masturbators and come all the time. This is true. You are an idiot.
"Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples. "
Hi did have disciples, perhaps they could not count? Idiot.
"Claim #10-Both walked on water."
Don’t misunderstand what this means. It simply means they are righteous. Wow, you are an idiot.
"Claim #11-Both performed miracles. This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.”
So??? You are an idiot.
"Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus. "
Christian, you are blinded by the lies of satan. Idiot.
"Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount;"
They both preached their nonsense. End of story. You are an idiot.
"DO NO ATHEIST ACTUALLY EVER LOOK ANYTHING UP??"
Do Christians ever bother to pay attention to facts?
By the way idiot, what about:
Dionysus: Greek, 1500 BC
Attis: Greek, 1200 BC
Mithra: Zoroastrian, 600 BC
Krishna: Hindu, 400 BC
Idiot Christian.
Isn't it a pain in the A S S when they just make up stuff and not listen to facts? Your narrative was clear and concise, it was the Jesus in her brain that kept her from understanding. Peace.
Quite frankly, your disrespect for others beliefs and views leads me to believe that it is you who is the idiot. People of depth and intelligence are not so calloused to the thoughts of others. You obviously have a very shallow historical perspective.
So is this dude supposed to have bonus power when he comes back?