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September 4th, 2012
08:07 AM ET

Christians take discrimination cases to Europe's top court

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

Four British Christians urged Europe's top court Tuesday to rule that they faced discrimination because of their religious beliefs.

Two women accuse their employers of refusing to let them wear crosses openly at work.

Alongside them, a woman who declined to register gay civil partnerships and a man who did not want to give sex therapy to same-sex couples say they were unfairly dismissed from their jobs.

Gary McFarlane, the relationship counselor, said he was pleased with the way Tuesday's hearing went.

"Today, for the first time, I heard somebody talking about my rights," he said. "Surely I have some rights. I am a member of society. I have some beliefs."

He called it a "tragedy" that the case had gone all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.

He blamed "overzealous employers" who "would not consider reasonable accommodation" for his religious beliefs.

He never refused to treat a specific couple, raising his religious objections only in the abstract, said Andrea Williams, director of the Christian Legal Centre, which is supporting him.

He and the other three Christians are fighting the British government, saying it failed to protect their rights.

The case could help to draw a clear boundary in cases where religious views contradict laws against discrimination. It will have implications across 47 countries on the continent. The court ruling will not be binding in Britain in the way that a Supreme Court ruling would be, but the country is legally obliged to take it into account.

The four - Nadia Eweida and Shirley Chaplin, who wanted to wear crosses; registrar Lilian Ladele; and McFarlane, the relationship counselor - have lost every round of their battles through the British legal system.

They're now making their claims under European human rights law, focusing on guarantees of freedom of religion and freedom from discrimination at work.

Eweida, who works for British Airways, said she experienced discrimination from 2006 to 2007, when she started wearing the cross visibly and was transferred to another job. The airline has since changed its policy on uniforms to allow employees to wear religious or charity symbols.

But Chaplin, a nurse, ultimately lost her job after her employer changed its uniforms to include V-necks, which made her cross visible. Her manager asked her to remove it for fear it could lead to injury when she was working with patients, according to court papers.

She refused.

Both women lost their cases in British employment tribunals.

Eweida's tribunal ruled that wearing a cross was a personal choice, not a requirement of Christianity, while Chaplin's tribunal found there were legitimate health and safety reasons to bar her from wearing the symbol around her neck.

Chaplin said Tuesday that she didn't believe it.

"The council that runs risk assessment said they have no previous cases of injury from crucifixes," she said after the hearing concluded.

Ladele and McFarlane also lost employment tribunal battles, with the tribunals finding that their employers could require them to perform their jobs.

Their employers were entitled to refuse to accommodate religious views that contradicted British laws banning discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, the tribunals found.

All four Christians were denied hearings further up the British legal chain, pushing their cases to the European Court in Strasbourg.

Its rulings normally take months after a case is argued.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Britain • Christianity • Church and state • Europe • Religious liberty

soundoff (1,277 Responses)
  1. Sam W

    Trust me,

    If I saw a doctor or nurse wearing a jewelery on work, for whatever reason or have long nails for whatever reason, they deserve to be fired.

    A crucifix in the airline case is for herself, she can pretty well hide it when she is performing duty so that she doesnt cause injury to a passenger while on work or to herself while at work.

    This is not a case where she cannot practice here religion.

    Finally, where in the Bible it says, one has to wear Crucifix to show Love of Christ?

    September 4, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Atheus

      It makes me wonder – if the supposed Christ were killed by being thrown against a wall by a catapult, would Christians wear siege machinery around their necks?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • Topher

      You have no idea WHY we wear the cross, do you? Or even why the cross is significant.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • Atheus

      I probably know better than you, my friend. In general, atheists know religions better than adherents. When was the last time you truly read the Bible?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Iknowhowtothink

      Blah, blah, blah. If you saw a doctor or nurse when you were seriously inured, you wouldn't care what they were wearing, but, that they knew how to do their jobs.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Topher

      Atheus

      "I probably know better than you, my friend. In general, atheists know religions better than adherents. When was the last time you truly read the Bible?"

      Oh, yeah. I keep forgetting that's a typical atheist claim.

      I read the Bible just a few hours ago. You?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • Atheus

      Honestly, I haven't read it recently, but I have READ it. The majority of Christians (and this has been proven by study) just take it for granted. I would venture to say that most never read the whole thing. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/28/nation/la-na-religion-survey-20100928

      September 4, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • Topher

      Atheus

      "The majority of Christians (and this has been proven by study) just take it for granted. I would venture to say that most never read the whole thing. "

      That I agree with. I know there's a huge population in this country claiming to be Christians, but most likely aren't saved.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • Neil

      Topher, the atheists read the web sites designed by other atheists that haven't a clue to what Jesus teaches. It's the blind leading the blind to hell.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • sarah

      I understand why the cross is significant. But I also know that it's not a requirement of Christianity to wear one around one's neck.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • neoritter

      The fact that it is not a requirement shouldn't matter. Freedom of religion is the free expression and practice of a religion of your choosing. Wearing a cross is a well established form of expression. In the case of a rosary (which is basicall the same thing) it's not a requirement but a common belief that wearing it is like wearing a lucky charm or extra blessings. You can consider wearing a crucifix easily as one expressing their religion (in a very bengn manner I might add) and potentially even as an accepted form of practice.

      It's by far not unreasonable for a person to be allowed to wear a crufix.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • Damocles

      @topher, neil, mary

      I really think the nurse should not wear the cross based on safety issues. Even if the cross is close to her neck, there is a chance it could cause problems, get hung on something or whatever. Her claim that no accidents have happened is irrelevant because if it happens just once, it's too often. I wonder if she would try to sue the company if her necklace DID cause a serious problem, sort of like suing because someone was shocked to discover coffee is hot?

      September 4, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
  2. Balow Me

    I don't like Christians, so why should I not be able to refuse servicing them the way they refuse to serve others? Screw these hypocrites...be a professional AND DO YOUR JOB. Non christians do it everyday, tolerating invasive BS from people of faith, time for people of faith to deal with the exact same reality.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Bob

      As a Christian, I agree with you 100%. These people have clearly missed some of the basic tenets of Christianity.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Neil

      I worked with atheists. They showed up and caused the trouble in the workplace then collected a paycheck. None had work ethics.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, so you are basing your claims on personal anecdotes. Well, if that's all you have, then you don't have much.

      What sort of "trouble" did they cause?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • Fred Evil

      Sure you did Neil. I TOTALLY believe you.

      September 5, 2012 at 4:42 am |
  3. prophet

    just to let you know i am not in a religion, i belong to God

    September 4, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • snowboarder

      which god?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • Fred Evil

      Whose god?

      September 5, 2012 at 4:42 am |
  4. AvdBerg

    Are those that call themselves Christians followers of the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Word of God, or do they follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ (Matthew 24:24: 2 Cor. 11:13-15: Gal. 4:8)?

    For a better understanding of the history of Christianity and its spread throughout the world, we invite you to read the articles ‘Can Christianity or Any Other Religion Save You?’ and ‘The Mystery Babylon’ listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

    All of the other pages and articles listed on our website explain how and by whom this whole world has been deceived as confirmed in Revelation 12:9.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • midwest rail

      Still stealing free advertising.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Iknowhowtothink

      Satan deceives the entire world. That's why Christians get insulted on this blog.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      They get insulted because a good many of them, like you, are ignorant.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • Mary

      Ignorance belongs to the atheists.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sure, Mary. Look at the posts here. Show evidence that the atheists are uneducated and stupid.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Fred Evil

      Oddly enough Mary, most atheists know more about more religions than the followers of those religions themselves. That's NOT ignorance. You're upset because they are better critical thinkers, and more readily expose the flaws in religious 'logic.' You can do it too, just stop believing everything you are told, and ask questions. If it doesn't make sense (and almost no religion does), ASK QUESTIONS!

      September 5, 2012 at 4:45 am |
  5. prophet

    its bizarre really but atheism is a religion also, just read the dictionary

    September 4, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Atheus

      Saying atheism is a religion is like saying "off" is a TV channel.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • midwest rail

      Choose any secondary definition you like, but don't pretend that it's the primary definition listed.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Topher

      It's def. a worldview.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • Iknowhowtothink

      Prophet is correct. You atheists lie when you say that the Supreme Court of the US didn't declare you a religion. Therefore, all our cases can be won when we show the courts how the religion of atheism is being shoved at us.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The SCOTUS recognized that atheists have the same rights as a members of any religious group and for the purposes of law should be treated equally.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • Mary

      You atheists are forcing you religion onto everyone. That's why when we tell the judges that the religion of atheism is being forced on us. We win.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh? Do you have a case in mind, Mary?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, do you?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • cedar rapids

      "Iknowhowtothink – Prophet is correct. You atheists lie when you say that the Supreme Court of the US didn't declare you a religion."

      Now you are the one lying, and thats a no-no. The supreme court said that in freedom of religion cases atheism should be classed as having the same rights as a religion for purposes of detemining freedoms. Thats it, they never said it was a religion.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • cedar rapids

      "You atheists are forcing you religion onto everyone"

      and where are we doing that mary? that seems to be the claim of people that get annoyed that they cannot push their religion on others because atheists stand up to stop it, such as prayer in schools.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Neil

      Mary's correct. Not practicing any religion is practicing the religion of atheism.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:26 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Neil, I do believe you ARE Mary, just posting under a new name.

      You're both making silly statements that have no basis in fact at all.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • cedar rapids

      'Not practicing any religion is practicing the religion of atheism."

      that passes for logic in a christian mind does it? explains a lot.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • Civil law in civil society

      @prophet, only a single minded prophet could say such a stupid thing. Any reasonable atheist will tell you that he / she will do the utmost so that his personal worldview does NOT become another religion. The point of atheism is a very personal thing: there might or might not be a god. We do NOT care. We don't try to disprove religion, neither does science. Tolerance! Ever heard of it?? And don't give me the 'all atheists insult religion, blah blah". When you hear from atheists it's in response to the overbearing bullying from socalled religious people, who want to impose their views and morals on the rest of society. That is when atheists, fed up by now by all those self righteous folk, will speak up and point out how thin and fragile your one god religion really is. Why don't you fight it out with the other one-god religions. They'll tell you that you're an atheist or pagan, because you don't believe in THEIR god. God, this is hilarious.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • Fred Evil

      "Not practicing any religion is practicing the religion of atheism."
      LOL!! I bet you had to think long and hard to come up with a statement this utterly ludicrous.
      I will grant you there are MILITANT atheists who proselytize that there is no god, but they are a minority, although a vocal one, as they get tired of the litany of unopposed gibberish like what I have quoted above.
      I don't know if there is a god, I strongly doubt it, but IF there IS one, it has NOTHING to do with the silly religions on the planet today. NONE of them make a lick of sense past 30 seconds of serious examination.

      September 5, 2012 at 4:49 am |
  6. Harry Potter

    Actually religious nut, modern legal systems do not stem from the ten commandments they stem from the twelve tables which predate christianity and have nothing to do with any religion

    September 4, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Iknowhowtothink

      Harry, don't you have an evil sorcerer to go after?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • Mary

      Keep your lies to yourself Potter. You atheists do nothing, but complain.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Atheus

      That's because we have a lot to complain about.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Neil

      Yes, just waking up in the morning, you atheists complain about everything God created. Same when you go to sleep at night, you complain about the day God provided.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Neil=Mary=Troll.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:30 am |
  7. prophet

    so it seems from most of the comments on here that people are doing immoral occupations. Sad really but its actually how it is these days most are doing immoral things. Even these nice people who send their children to private schools seem to well behaved but their company takes ordinary people to court for their debts and most of you who comment here are employed by these people so your in cahoots with them. Most of you want to take a look at your own behaviours before criticising others who are trying to uphold the moral lawa regardless of religion. What they are doing is just common sense so this shows that most of you hae some real problems and we are praying for you all.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:02 am |
    • Atheus

      Speaking of school – you should go back so you can learn to write coherently. The above comment was untranslatable gibberish.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • cedar rapids

      'so it seems from most of the comments on here that people are doing immoral occupations."

      has anyone here posted their professions? seems you are making a false claim there.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • Fred Evil

      Please, DON'T pray for us, you obviously need the help far more than we do. Thanks!

      September 5, 2012 at 4:51 am |
  8. asdf

    organized religion is a cult.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • Mary

      The religion of atheism is the plague on every society.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Mary, your posts bear an uncanny similarity to those of TBT, HeavenSent, and justsayin.

      I wonder why.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Neil

      I'm with you Mary, the atheists are a miserable bunch.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Neil, you ARE Mary.

      Are you trying to get in touch with your feminine side?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:34 am |
  9. prophet

    someone wrote religious bigotry, this person has no morality and this are the type that are the majority, immoral and disgusting.Moral behaviour is normal in healthy people with or without religion and i can see that most on here are not morally healthy.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:54 am |
  10. Atheus

    Cry me a river. If you let religious bigotry prevent you from performing your job, you deserve to be fired.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Iknowhowtothink

      So you're saying that only the religion of atheism is OK to shove down everyone's throat?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How is it being "shoved down your throat"? How can someone force you to have a lack of belief?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Atheus

      1.) Atheism is not in any way, shape or form a religion.
      2.) You don't see atheists proselytizing or refusing people service because of an outdated code of (questionable) moral values.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • Topher

      Which moral values are questionable or outdated?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      The entire Old Testament, especially Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Topher

      What specifically?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Mary

      Topher, the atheists are the modern day Pharisees as they continue to be jealous of Jesus. That's why the crucify Jesus teachings today, along with the Apostle Paul's. They are the reason why you need to pay attention to the parable of the figs. They are bad figs that will be cut off.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Topher

      Mary

      I agree, but I used to be one of them. I keep being told by them they know the Bible better than me, but they clearly don't know what the Bible teaches. I'm trying to help them. I figure if you're going to reject something, you should know what you are rejecting.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Neil

      Then all the atheists need to get fired for practicing their religion of atheism in the workplace.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Neil=Mary=Troll

      September 4, 2012 at 11:33 am |
  11. anon

    What a waste of time. Sorry but you are hired to do a specific job and not to get paid deciding what you will and wont do at work. I am grateful I work and live in a right to work state where you can be fired without reason. It is all well and good that people don't believe in specific things but your beliefs aren't important to the job at hand. The only two I agree with here in part are the two women being fired for wearing crosses. Now if it turns out they worked in some field where the wearing of jewelry could be hazardous then I will disagree totally on this suit.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:50 am |
  12. prophet

    this isn't a religious issue its a moral issue. God came to save us from religion but every healthy person knows what is right and wrong and these people are merely standing up for what is right.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Atheus

      It is a religious issue because you're referring to morals based on religious belief. My personal moral codebook says nothing about whether it's right or wrong for any two people who love each other to be together. Frankly it's none of our business.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:53 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Prophet
      They are standing up for their personal interpretations of what is right.
      The KKK know that what they espouse is right and proper.
      Nobody is a villain in their own eyes.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:57 am |
  13. gliese 42

    Christians are discriminated everywhere but perhaps they prefer Sharia law so its their choice.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:34 am |
    • Primewonk

      I guess I'm confused. Christians claim that 90% of the country is Christian. They own the White House, the Senate, the House, and the Supreme Court. They own the governorships of all 50 states, along with all 50 state legislatures and all 50 state Supreme Courts.

      Where exactly is this discrimination you speak of?

      September 4, 2012 at 9:54 am |
  14. God is a man made delusion

    Some Christians can be such hypocrites. They rant about the threat of Sharia law then insist they have the right to ignore civil law when it prevents them from using their religion to support their personal bigotry. Two sides of the same coin. As for the wearing of crucifix's, many jobs don't allow one to wear rings or necklaces as there have been incidents of injury. Let them wear the crosses and let them obtain their own liability and disability insurance.

    September 4, 2012 at 9:17 am |
  15. WASP

    the only issue i see here is people forget in careers like relationship counciling, you have to be strictly professional meaning no personal information can be involved in your advice to help the couple. so yes the guy should have been fired for refusing to not do his job. let's take it another direction a female that has survived an abusive relationship has to council a couple that i seeking help for an abusive relationship; should she have the right to mix her feelings, which that is what religion is a feeling, in with her counciling advice? if the answer is anything other than no, then we shall agree to disagree. 🙂

    September 4, 2012 at 9:16 am |
    • Neil

      A survivor of domestic abuse, just like alcohol or drugs counselors is a must before you get your degree.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:37 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Where is that idiot translator ring?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:38 am |
  16. Portland tony

    Much to do about nothing. However I would feel a little uneasy if the nurse's crucifix went missing during my open heart surgery!

    September 4, 2012 at 9:01 am |
    • WASP

      @tony: LMAO

      September 4, 2012 at 9:08 am |
  17. Doc Vestibule

    Allowing employees to refuse to do their jobs for religious reasons sets a dangerous precedent.
    What if an employee's religion dictates that women can only be outside when accompanied by a male relative and therefore refuses to help single women?
    Or perhaps one of Pastor Pete Peters' congregants stands up for their religious beliefs and refuses to offer service to inter-racial couples?
    Regardless of the rationalizations, prejudice cannot be allowed to flourish in the professional sphere.

    September 4, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • William Demuth

      I half agree.

      The crucufix points are absurd, but the career responsibility issues have some merit.

      I am mainly concerend about changes. Asking a counselor to concil means he must use his own moral belief and charachter to assist others. It is dangerous to expect men to counsel people in favor of behaviors they object to.

      Using the standard of societal norm is a dangerous one. It's how they get young men to gas little old ladies.

      If you believe something is wrong, you should not be required to engage in it.

      For exzmple compelling a doctor to abort a child, or compelling a prison guard to execute someone are going to far.

      The devil alas is in the details. Can a relationship counselor say the rerason the relationship isn't working is because it wasn't intended to? For me, that one is right on the fringe.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      "Or perhaps one of Pastor Pete Peters' congregants stands up for their religious beliefs and refuses to offer service to inter-racial couples?"

      What religion doesn't allow interracial couples?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Member of the "Christian Identi/ty" movement in the United States.
      White Supremacists using the Bible to rationalize their bigotry.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:15 am |
  18. Jake-413451

    I can understand their position on the relationship therapy, from both sides actually.

    If a person refused to give relationship advice to 80 year-old who was having se.x with a 16 year-old would they fire them?

    What if their advice consisted solely of "This is an unhealthy relationship, you should end it." before they even questioned them to determine if it was or not?

    I don't think they would have been fired. So from the perspective that they are refusing to give advice based on a moral view I get it.

    I also understand the employer's position, which says no discrimination based on orientation. But the referenced relationship would be legal under English law. Would they force the person to give advice on how that geriatric and the teen could have a long lasting (relatively speaking) relationship?

    I'm not sure they would, but should they force it if it came up?

    September 4, 2012 at 8:38 am |
    • William Demuth

      It occurs to me that having Roman Catholic preachers advise gay couples would be a skit worthy of Monty Python

      September 4, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • cedar rapids

      "If a person refused to give relationship advice to 80 year-old who was having se.x with a 16 year-old would they fire them?"

      if the person refused on religious grounds then yes.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:13 am |
  19. William Demuth

    Tough one with the couseling.

    How can you tell a man he is fishing in the wrong well, and I could easily see myself telling the ladies that a little closer inspection might go a long way in helping.

    September 4, 2012 at 8:38 am |
  20. Your religion is a stench

    Hear that, all you bloated sacks of religious idiocy? You cannot refuse to follow orders if you work in the UK.

    Religious freedom in the UK does not mean you are allowed to violate the law. YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW.
    It's like that here, too, but there are too many religious people who hate having to follow the law when they can just use their religion as an excuse.
    Honor killing? No, that's actually MURDER.
    Doing something vicious in the name of your religion should get you prison time. You must follow the law or be removed.

    September 4, 2012 at 8:37 am |
    • Relgious Nut

      The Law is a regilion you Nut.... Set of rules.... you follow it..... 😉

      So your just as religious as them... :p

      September 4, 2012 at 9:19 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Secular law is not predicated on anything supernatural and therefore is not a religion.

      September 4, 2012 at 9:21 am |
    • Relgious Nut

      That my friend is your belief.... which I might add if grossly flawed in many cases...

      1.) ....the modern legal system stems from the ancient 10 commandments.... which comes from ... religion.. dadaaahh

      2.) ....If I "created" a religion, say pay money to say... get enlightened, like Sci$@#%34gy... :)... this stems from a set of laws defined by a belief. Its still a religion.... even if it .. made up..got very little to do with supernatural

      .... So a legal system effectively governs a religion you can't have one without the other. If you believe "There is no God", doesn't make it any less supernateral than the belief there is a God... the only difference is your the king of your universe.. essentially you worship yourself :).. where other worship someone else.

      In modern society, the belief is that of democracy (which is pretty good I might add.. comes from the .. do unto others ... commandment.. see bible for ref).. We believe in democracy... believe => faith => lifestyle changes => laws => religion.....

      September 4, 2012 at 9:44 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Modern law comes from the Ten Commandments?
      1) No other Gods – not a law
      2) No idolatry – not a law
      3) No blasphemy – not a law
      4) Keep the sabbath holy – not a law
      5) Honour your parents – not a law
      6) No stealing – a univseral law in human societies, including all modern and ancient non-christian ones.
      7) No lying – same as 6
      8) No murder – same as 6
      9) No adultery – not a law (though grounds for divorce, you can't be jailed for cheating)
      10) No coveting – not a law.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Simran

      Well, actually the Code of Hammurabi is considered as a model for the modern laws. Sorry, dates back to 1772 BC.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • cedar rapids

      "If you believe "There is no God", doesn't make it any less supernateral than the belief there is a God"

      er, yes, yes it does. To believe there is a deity is supernatural, to think there isnt is hardly supernatural.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Neil

      Doctor, don't operate on me since you prove you have no eyes to see.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:42 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.