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September 4th, 2012
08:07 AM ET

Christians take discrimination cases to Europe's top court

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

Four British Christians urged Europe's top court Tuesday to rule that they faced discrimination because of their religious beliefs.

Two women accuse their employers of refusing to let them wear crosses openly at work.

Alongside them, a woman who declined to register gay civil partnerships and a man who did not want to give sex therapy to same-sex couples say they were unfairly dismissed from their jobs.

Gary McFarlane, the relationship counselor, said he was pleased with the way Tuesday's hearing went.

"Today, for the first time, I heard somebody talking about my rights," he said. "Surely I have some rights. I am a member of society. I have some beliefs."

He called it a "tragedy" that the case had gone all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.

He blamed "overzealous employers" who "would not consider reasonable accommodation" for his religious beliefs.

He never refused to treat a specific couple, raising his religious objections only in the abstract, said Andrea Williams, director of the Christian Legal Centre, which is supporting him.

He and the other three Christians are fighting the British government, saying it failed to protect their rights.

The case could help to draw a clear boundary in cases where religious views contradict laws against discrimination. It will have implications across 47 countries on the continent. The court ruling will not be binding in Britain in the way that a Supreme Court ruling would be, but the country is legally obliged to take it into account.

The four - Nadia Eweida and Shirley Chaplin, who wanted to wear crosses; registrar Lilian Ladele; and McFarlane, the relationship counselor - have lost every round of their battles through the British legal system.

They're now making their claims under European human rights law, focusing on guarantees of freedom of religion and freedom from discrimination at work.

Eweida, who works for British Airways, said she experienced discrimination from 2006 to 2007, when she started wearing the cross visibly and was transferred to another job. The airline has since changed its policy on uniforms to allow employees to wear religious or charity symbols.

But Chaplin, a nurse, ultimately lost her job after her employer changed its uniforms to include V-necks, which made her cross visible. Her manager asked her to remove it for fear it could lead to injury when she was working with patients, according to court papers.

She refused.

Both women lost their cases in British employment tribunals.

Eweida's tribunal ruled that wearing a cross was a personal choice, not a requirement of Christianity, while Chaplin's tribunal found there were legitimate health and safety reasons to bar her from wearing the symbol around her neck.

Chaplin said Tuesday that she didn't believe it.

"The council that runs risk assessment said they have no previous cases of injury from crucifixes," she said after the hearing concluded.

Ladele and McFarlane also lost employment tribunal battles, with the tribunals finding that their employers could require them to perform their jobs.

Their employers were entitled to refuse to accommodate religious views that contradicted British laws banning discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, the tribunals found.

All four Christians were denied hearings further up the British legal chain, pushing their cases to the European Court in Strasbourg.

Its rulings normally take months after a case is argued.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Britain • Christianity • Church and state • Europe • Religious liberty

soundoff (1,277 Responses)
  1. pistoff2

    Jesus warned believers that they would be hated because He was hated. Wearing a symbol of the faith will bring out the haters, just as wearing head gear will bring out the haters of Islam. Believers are commanded by Jesus to love those who do evil to them because of Him. Going to the courts of man is insignificant to the Kingdom of God.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • myweightinwords

      How does enforcing a dress code, or a safety code or requiring someone to do the job they were hired for equal hate?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • Neil

      Here goes the political correct religious beliefs of the atheists.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:09 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Just like wearing a swatiska will bring out the haters of Naziism.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
    • Bob

      pistoff2, speaking of what your god demands, let's take a look at what the Christian book of nasty AKA the bible says about that, in both OT and NT. Pretty horrid stuff:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      September 4, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
  2. ron

    "They're now making their claims under European human rights law, focusing on guarantees of freedom of religion and freedom from discrimination at work."
    The two women are free to practice their religion, privately. Rather than simply expressing their beliefs, as they feel, some could legitmatley feel that they are proselytizing.
    As to the discrimination charge, those two are at work, refusing to offer the services for which they were hired. In point of fact, THEY discriminating against others, a tried and true tenet of religion in general. The "I'm Holier than thou", complex. These two may beat their dog or kids, at home, but they are somehow BETTER than the people that have come to them for help.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Topher

      ... "a tried and true tenet of religion in general. The "I'm Holier than thou", complex."

      You obviously aren't speaking of Christianity.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Simran

      Topher,
      Are the Muslims as holy as you?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • Topher

      Simran

      I don't understand your question.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Simran

      Are you holier than Muslims?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Topher

      I'm not holy at all, so I don't know what you mean.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • Simran

      Good for you,
      Is Christianity the way to God, and not Islam?

      September 4, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Topher

      Technically, no. Jesus Christ is the only way to God.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Simran

      There you go, technically prove the technique now! How is Jesus the only way to God!!!

      You made a claim remember, and everytime you have only verses from the Bible to quote.
      Now that is NOT TECHNICALLY!

      September 4, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Topher

      Well, first, because Jesus said so ... that no man comes to the Father except through Him.

      Second, Islam can't be true because canon was closed with Revelation. So no further "scripture" would have been given (nor was any more needed.)

      September 4, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • Simran

      Why should I believe the words of people who wrote the Bible much after Jesus had died?

      Also, what about the Hindus who claim the Vedas weren't even inspired by God (ie they were not human composition) but were revealed by Gods (SRUTI). Google it.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Simran

      To make it simpler for you to understand – religious texts are of 2 kinds, one of SRUTI (i.e. directly revealed, the Vedas, heard by the rishis who wrote it down) and SMRITI (i.e. what is remembered, as you say your Bible was written years later, or was it centuries later?)

      September 4, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • Topher

      Simran

      "Why should I believe the words of people who wrote the Bible much after Jesus had died?"

      Because the Bible was written by eyewitnesses (who told of the supernatural events) during the lifetimes of other eyewitnesses. So if the author wrote something untrue or if the truth was stretched, the other eyewitnesses would have called them on it and the book would have been thrown out. You can believe the Bible.

      "Also, what about the Hindus who claim the Vedas weren't even inspired by God (ie they were not human composition) but were revealed by Gods (SRUTI). Google it."

      What about them? We know historically Jesus existed, we know He performed miracles (see above) and that He claimed to be God. He also said He was the only way to Heaven. So if He is God, the Hindus need Him, too. We've all got a sin problem in that all have sinned against God and thus deserve to go to Hell. Christianity is the ONLY "religion" that has an answer for that. The Gospel is good news for Hindus as well as Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and anyone else. Through Jesus Christ you can be forgiven and know for a fact where you are going when you die (something else no other religion offers).

      You can also take every world's religion and break it down into two categories. In the first category you have all religions exept Christianity. In every one of these you can do good things and try to earn your way into Heaven. In the other category, you only have Christianity which says the work has already been done. Jesus Christ died on the cross taking your punishment so that if you repent (not just say you are sorry, but turn from those sins) and trust in the Savior, you will be saved.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:57 am |
    • Simran

      the claim of godness of Jesus Christ is not accepted by a majority of the world. History only proves that a man called Jesus existed. Miracles???? Wow, When Guru Nanak died, Hindus and Muslims fought for burial rights, it is believed that his body disappeared and was replaced by flowers. And he was not god. And that is just a story.

      There were several eyewitnesses, so lies coild be detected. Now there were many rishis (not one) who wrote down the word of god in Vedas, and Vedas also actually exist. And they are the oldest religious scripture of the world!

      Well, there are numerous other stories of miracles in every religion.

      See, we get back to the same point that the original poster was trying to make – the belief of religious that "MY WAY IS BETTER THAN YOURS".

      September 4, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • Simran

      Christianity believes that sinners go to hell. Pretty vindictive God.
      Hindus believe we just get reborn and come back again to learn the lessons we missed in this life. So does Sikhism. Pretty reassuring. God not being vindictive here.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • Neil

      Atheists practice their religious beliefs everywhere and force it on everyone else.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:11 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      "Christianity believes that sinners go to hell. Pretty vindictive God."

      You say vindictive, I say just. Would a good judge just let the guilty walk free? No, they must be punished ... that is, unless someone pays your fine for you.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • Simran

      "You can also take every world's religion and break it down into two categories. In the first category you have all religions exept Christianity. In every one of these you can do good things and try to earn your way into Heaven. In the other category, you only have Christianity which says the work has already been done. Jesus Christ died on the cross taking your punishment so that if you repent (not just say you are sorry, but turn from those sins) and trust in the Savior, you will be saved. "

      So you are saying that people of all other religions and no religions will have to do good work and earn their way into heaven, while Christians can just repent and trust their saviour and go to heaven??? Wow, is that why the pastors were scre.wing those little kids, coz they knew their sins have been paid for, and in the end they can just repent and trust the saviour and go to heaven.

      Wow, a golden pass...... I could so become a Christian!!!! But the problem is I have been wired to work my way towards the goals and not just have someone bring them to me.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:14 pm |
    • Simran

      I say vindictive bcoz you take away the chances of learning by punishment. And eternity in hell! How would the soul ever get closer to god if it is doomed to hell??? Why would god not want his creation to come back closer to him/her/it???

      Like I said, the Hindu faith that you just get reborn to learn the lesson again – makes much more sense.

      Now would you throw someone out of school (to hell) if they fail to learn a lesson? You would make them repeat the lesson.

      Coming to the judgement concept, judges always look for ways to reform the person who committed a crime. Not end their existence. Punishment doesnot make anyone better. Reform does.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:22 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      "the claim of godness of Jesus Christ is not accepted by a majority of the world."

      That doesn't matter. The question is whether He really was God or not. By the way, the Bible predicted that, too, that most of the world would reject Him.

      "Wow, When Guru Nanak died, Hindus and Muslims fought for burial rights, it is believed that his body disappeared and was replaced by flowers. And he was not god. And that is just a story."

      Yeah, but you've got more eyewitnesses, hundreds of them, that saw Jesus after he rose again. Also, have you ever considered the excuses given by the Roman soldiers stationed at the tomb? That's why we have the passage in Matthew 28 where the chief priests pay the soldiers to lie and say they fell asleep and the body was stolen and that if the governor hears about it that the priests would keep them out of trouble. Do you realize what trouble they'd be in? They'd have been killed for falling asleep on the job, especially when that action means they lost what they were guarding. No, the soldiers saw what really happened. That's why they were paid off by the priests.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
    • Simran

      Miracles – not unique to Jesus Christ.

      Sai Baba of Shirdi (a highly reverred Indian saint) – born in 1912 (so dont bother arguing the historical accuracy) has performed many miracles – Sai Baba's millions of disciples and devotees believe that he performed many miracles such as bilocation, levitation, mindreading, materialization, exorcisms, making the river Yamuna, entering a state of Samādhi at will, and lightning lamps with water, removing his limbs or intestines and sticking them back to his body (khandana yoga), curing the incurably sick, appearing beaten when another was beaten, after death rising on third day like Jesus Christ, preventing a mosque from falling down on people, and helping his devotees in a miraculous way. He also gave Darshan (vision) to people in the form of Rama, Krishna, Vithoba and many other Gods depending on the faith of devotees!!!

      Link to some stories of miracles by Sai Baba: http://www.saibabaofindia.com/4_stories.htm

      Biographers of Sai Baba (e.g. Govindrao Raghunath Dabholkar, Acharya Ekkirala Bharadwaja, Smriti Srinivas, Antonio Rigopolous) have based their writing on primary sources. One such source is the Shirdi Diary by Ganesh Shrikrishna Khaparde, which describes every day of the author's stay at Shirdi.

      The most important source about Sai's life is the Shri Sai Satcharita, written in Marathi in 1916 by Govindrao Raghunath Dabholkar, whom Sai Baba nicknamed Hemadpant. Consisting of 53 chapters, it describes Sai Baba's life, teachings, and miracles.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:32 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      "Would a good judge just let the guilty walk free?"

      actually if the crime was not believing in the judge then i would suggest that eternal punishment was harsh wouldnt you? no of course you dont.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Topher

      "So you are saying that people of all other religions and no religions will have to do good work and earn their way into heaven, while Christians can just repent and trust their saviour and go to heaven???"

      Well, I'm saying that's what those religions teach, but that's not how it works. You CANT earn your way into Heaven. And don't just throw away repentance. It's not easy to do. The world loves to sin and this is often a main reason why people refuse to trust Christ. They'd rather look at po.rnography or sleep around or whatever than give their lives to Christ. But when you do, you will be "born again" meaning you will have a new heart with new desires. This means you will no longer want to sin against God and you will desire the things of God instead.

      "Wow, is that why the pastors were scre.wing those little kids, coz they knew their sins have been paid for, and in the end they can just repent and trust the saviour and go to heaven."

      Are talking about a deathbed confession? Sounds like too much risk to me. How many people actually make it to a deathbed? You or I could be hit by a bus this afternoon. We never know when the end is coming. None of us are promised another day, so it's better to repent and trust Him now, not go on sinning and hope you live long enough.

      "Wow, a golden pass...... I could so become a Christian!!!! But the problem is I have been wired to work my way towards the goals and not just have someone bring them to me."

      You can become a Christian. What is holding you back? If you keep working what you are saying is that Christ's work on the cross wasn't good enough. You are going to fail, Simran, and I don't want that for you. The beating, torture and death of Christ was the kindest thing anyone could have ever done for you. Salvation is offered. Why would you reject that?

      September 4, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      "I say vindictive bcoz you take away the chances of learning by punishment. And eternity in hell! How would the soul ever get closer to god if it is doomed to hell??? Why would god not want his creation to come back closer to him/her/it???"

      Oh, He wants us to turn to Him. He loved us so much He died taking the punishment we deserve because in the end none of us deserve to go to Heaven.

      "Now would you throw someone out of school (to hell) if they fail to learn a lesson? You would make them repeat the lesson."

      We're not talking about lessons that need to be learned. The Bible says it is appointed unto man once to die and after this, the judgment. We're talking about eternal reward here. The problem is that we have all sinned and deserve to be punished for breaking His laws. When you die, you either get punished (Hell) or rewarded (Heaven.) Since every single one of us has told a lie, or stolen, or looked with lust, we deserve Hell. But God saw this, knew we deserved punishment, but He didn't want that for us. That's why He came ... to be a ransom for many.

      "Coming to the judgement concept, judges always look for ways to reform the person who committed a crime. Not end their existence. Punishment doesnot make anyone better. Reform does."

      I've probably gave you this analogy before, but I think it is worth repeating. If I lie to a child, nothing will happen. If I lie to my wife, I'll probably be sleeping on the couch. If I lie to my boss, I'll be fired. If I lie to the government, I could be thrown in jail or even killed for it. Notice the crime is the same, but against whom it was committed changed. So how much more so should our punishment be when we commit a crime against a Holy and just God?

      September 4, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • Simran

      "You are going to fail and I dont want that for you" – Hey Topher, are you trying to project your own insecurities towards me here??? Are you scared of failing???

      Well, there is much more evidence of the miracles of Sai Baba than of Jesus. The stories of Bible were written after what (some 100 yrs) after Jesus. Sai's miracles have been recorded in the 20th century as they were happening. And yet, the man never claimed to be god. And his message is full of love, not repentance or punishment or sin or hell.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • Simran

      Topher, now I think you dont even bother to understand the philosophy of other faiths. That is called Blinded by one's own faith. Hindus and Sikhs and other religions which stemmed from Hinduism believe that we will keep getting reborn till we become one with that universal soul we call God, that means till we leave behind all our sins and bad thoughts and deeds. And in each life, our circu.mstances will be affected by our karma. Ever heard about KARMA???
      No one is going to a hell for eternity.
      At any point in time we will see souls that are distinctly more evolved than us (like the saints Guru Nanak, Sai Baba, Jesus, Prophet Mohammad, Rama, Krishna etc...) and then there will be those still struggling (like Hitler). We will all eventually get there. Now, wouldn't that be a loving god, who doesnot punish you to an eternity in hell?

      September 4, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      "Hey Topher, are you trying to project your own insecurities towards me here??? Are you scared of failing???"

      No. I have a guarantee of what will happen to me when I die. I am saved by the grace of God. My destination is Heaven and I hope it will be for you, too.

      "Well, there is much more evidence of the miracles of Sai Baba than of Jesus. The stories of Bible were written after what (some 100 yrs) after Jesus."

      Nope. Much sooner than that. The last book, Revelation, was written between 94-96 AD. That's the year, not years later.

      "And yet, the man never claimed to be god. And his message is full of love, not repentance or punishment or sin or hell."

      So then he offered me nothing relevant in regard to my eternal soul.

      September 4, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • Simran

      I could so become a christian is a PUN topher. Ever heard of that?

      September 4, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
    • Simran

      "My destination is Heaven "

      Topher,do you seriously believe what you write? I would have suggested you see a shrink, but I leave you with your delusions!
      BTW, how does you heaven look like?

      September 4, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      God doesn't say we will get another chance not to mess up. In fact, He gives us one chance. Haven't you ever noticed people who believe in reincarnation were never just a common Joe in their past lives? They were always a king or president or celebrity. I said it before, but God says man dies once, then is judged. You better make sure you've got it right this go-round.

      "We will all eventually get there. Now, wouldn't that be a loving god, who doesnot punish you to an eternity in hell?"

      No. I'd rather die and go to Heaven than keep coming back to this sinful and corrupted place. Wouldn't you rather spend eternity with God in paradise than keep coming back here? How is that a benefit?

      September 4, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • Topher

      Of course I believe it because I believe what God says.

      "BTW, how does you heaven look like?"

      Well, eventually it will be on a "new Earth" without the corruption and curse that sin brought into the world. Likely it will be much like it was before Adam ate the fruit.

      September 4, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • Simran

      You would rather die and go to heaven....

      So, it all bottles down to what you would RATHER WANT TO BELIEVE, than what is actually true!!!
      You have been born into a religion, have grown up with this faith and so you find this to be the most appropriate and relevant. The Hindu has been born into his faith and he finds that most appropriate.
      All about belief Topher, not truth.

      September 4, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      "So, it all bottles down to what you would RATHER WANT TO BELIEVE, than what is actually true!!!"

      Nope. I have the truth straight from God. It just so happens I prefer how God handles it.

      "You have been born into a religion, have grown up with this faith and so you find this to be the most appropriate and relevant. The Hindu has been born into his faith and he finds that most appropriate."

      Also wrong. I didn't grow up in any religion. Didn't go to church. I was a raging atheist in my teens. Became agnostic, then a Christian false convert until my late 20s before I was saved. I looked into a bunch of religions before I became a Christian, including actually slapping down the cash to purchase a Bhagavad Gita in college. Only the Bible made any sense and could back up its claims.
      All about belief Topher, not truth.

      September 4, 2012 at 1:34 pm |
    • Simran

      So, the Bible made sense to you in troubled times. And gave you comfort. You believe it to be truth... fair enough. The problem arises when you believe it is everyone's truth.

      That reminds me, Rhonda Byrnes Secret made sense to me in troubled times!

      Bhagvad Gita is a philosophical text, a part of the epic Mahabharta. Many people find it inspiring, but it is not religious scripture.

      September 4, 2012 at 1:42 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Lots of people get The Truth straight from God.
      In 2008, He told Boyce Singleton Jr. to shoot and stab his pregnant girlfriend.
      Deanna Laney heard God direct her to bludgeon her three sons, aged 9, 6 and 15 months. Only the youngest survived.
      Blair Donnelly received instructions to stab to death his 16 year old daughter, Stephanie.
      Christopher Varian was slaughtered with a cheese knife after God spoke with one of his employees.
      God told Jennifer Cisowski to dash her infant's head on the rocks, so ""Just like Jesus raised Lazarus, I threw the baby on the stones by the pool."
      Khandi Busby got a direct message from God advising her that the only way to save her 6 and 8 year old boys was to toss them off a bridge in Dallas. Fortunately, they survived.
      Angel Rico says he received a divine command to strangle his 4 year old son, so he did just that and left him at the side of the highway.
      Lashaun Harris threw her 3 kids – aged 6, 2 and 16 months, into the San Francisco Bay after God let her know that He wanted a human sacrifice.
      of Sun Myung Moon, Emanuel Swedenborg, Baha u llah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, David Koresh, Hailie Selassie, John Thom, Arnold Potter, William Davies, George roux, Ernest Norman, Krishna Venta, Ahn Sahng-Hong, Jim Jones, Mashall Applewhite, Hulon Mitchell, Wayne Bent, Ariffin Mohammed, Mitsuo Matayoshi, Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda, Inri Cristo, Thomas Provenzano, David Icke, Shoko Asahara, Hogan Fukinaga, Marina Tsvigun and Sergei Troop all head God's Truth too.

      September 4, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      "So, the Bible made sense to you in troubled times. And gave you comfort. You believe it to be truth... fair enough. The problem arises when you believe it is everyone's truth."

      Well, it's either true or it isn't. You can't have a truth for me and a truth for you.

      Let me ask you this. Since you don't believe the Bible, how do you explain all the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? How do you write off something like Psalm 22, written 1000 years before Christ, but detailing Him so intricately?

      September 4, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      God did not speak to any of those people nor did He tell any of them to hurt anyone.

      September 4, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • Simran

      Prophecies busted at the following site:
      http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bible/prophecy.shtml

      Do read.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • Topher

      No thanks.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Do you have a Psychic Decoder capable of interception Cosmic, Divine messages?
      The experiences those people had with God are no more or less credible than your own, or Moses' or Abraham's or Joseph Smith's.
      Because God is unwilling to address the whole of Creation in an undeniable, unambiguous way we have only the word of His prophets to go on (I am including the authors of the Bible in the list of prophets).
      Becuase magical psychic communication is undisprovable, all purported instances must be given the same level of credibility.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • Simran

      Scared to read the truth Topher?

      Psalm 22 is another favorite passage that apologists will often point to as a fulfillment of prophecy. This is a little curious, however, because nowhere in this psalm does the poet give any indication at all that he is predicting the future. On the face of it, this psalm is another prayer for deliverance, like psalm 28, 30, 35 etc. As with most of David's deliverance psalms, this song follows the same structure. First, the poet recounts his present distress, and pleads for divine help (1-21). The psalm then ends with a song of rejoicing and praise to God (22-31).

      What can we say about the Christian interpretation of this psalm as a prophecy of Jesus' crucifixion? First, we should note that the psalm nowhere actually mentions the act of crucifixion. This is not too surprising, since this form of execution was probably unknown in David's time (assuming he was the author – this point is disputed by some scholars). The closest that we can come is verse 16, which states that they "..pierced my hands and feet...". This phrase actually still does not necessarily refer to crucifixion. There is no mention, for example, of nails or a cross. Since the poet mentioned dogs in this same verse, he may have been referring to animal bites. Some commentators speculate that this verse is a reference to demonic creatures of pagan mythology who brought disease to men, such as the Seven Udugs of Sumerian literature (probably the same myth that is reflected in Psalm 91:5-6). This explanation is bolstered by the fact that verses 14 and 15 obviously refer to a fever.

      The interpretation of verse 16 is further complicated by the fact that the Hebrew text appears to be corrupt at this point. Most Hebrew manuscripts have the word "lion" in place of "pierced", which does not seem to make any sense in the context. The New Jerusalem Bible translates verse 16 as "...a gang of villains closing in on me, as if to hack off my hands and feet...". The footnote reads "Hebr. ka'ari 'as a lion', unintelligible; Gk 'they have dug into'; Syr. 'they have wounded'." The NIV note at this verse reads "Some Hebrew manuscripts, Septuagint and Syriac; most Hebrew manuscripts like the lion...".

      A further point is that it seems strange that none of the Evangelists quoted this verse as being fulfilled by Jesus. John quoted verse 18 in reference to Jesus' clothes, and quoted Zechariah 12:10 in reference to Jesus' side being pierced by a sword, but never quoted Psalm 22:16 with regard to Jesus' crucifixion. Nor do any of the other gospels quote this verse. It seems likely that the Old Testament version that the Evangelists used did not have this particular rendering.

      What about the parting of the clothes (verse 18)? In fact, this was actually standard practice for an executed criminal. The psalmist is no doubt telling us that his enemies already considered him dead. That Jesus was executed as a criminal is also stated in the gospels. We should not therefore be too surprised that his executioners divided his clothes among themselves. They probably did the same with the other two thieves that were crucified with him.

      If the Christian interpretation is to hold, one wonders how verse 10 is to be resolved. The psalmist here states that God was with him from the moment of his birth. This makes sense for a purely human protagonist, but it is hard to reconcile with the notion of a pre-existent, divine Messiah.

      To sum up, then, we have several problems: first, there is no indication that this psalm was intended to be prophetic. It follows the theme and structure of a number of David's other Songs of Deliverance. Second, the psalm does not unambiguously refer to crucifixion. There are other interpretations, which better fit the context of the poem. Finally, there are elements of the psalm that cannot easily be applied to Jesus. The bottom line is that this is simply one more Old Testament passage that was abused by the New Testament writers.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      No. First, the canon is closed. God will not be "speaking" to anyone else. Second, John 16:2-3 : “The time is coming that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service.And these things will they do to you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.” So even if these people did hear an audible voice telling them to commit these crimes, you have to ask where it came from because it could not have been from God.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
    • Topher

      Simran

      C'mon. How can you not see that is simply excuse making by some atheist who wrote that. Instead of running to the atheist handbook, how about you read the Psalm. The NT makes 15 messianic quotations of or allusions to this psalm alone. Even some in the ealry church called it "the fifth gospel." Here, let me point out a few passages from it ...

      "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" ... This is exactly what Jesus said on the cross.
      "All who see me mock me; they make mouths at me; they wag their heads; He trusts in the Lord; let him deliver him; let him resuce him, for he delights in him!" ... Remember the people saying to Jesus that if He were God, why didn't He save himself?
      "I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint;: ... Not a single bone in his body was broken, but they would have been out of joint because of the nails in his hands and feet and how they stretched out your arms to nail you.
      "my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws;" ... Jesus said He was thristy
      "For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me;" ... the Romans and priests who were doing this to Him.
      "they have pierced my hands and feet —" ... enough said
      "I can count all my bones — they stare and gloat over me, they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots." ... all of this happened exactly like it says.

      This are just a few of the lines, and I'm no scholar. It's blatently about Christ, written 1000 years before He came. Amazing.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      If God doesn't speak to anyone anymore, how is it that you claim to have The Truth direct from God?

      September 4, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      And when exactly did The Canon close?
      In 325 at the Council of Nicea?

      September 4, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      I have the truth in the Bible. That's how I know about God and how to be saved.

      The canon closed with the book Revelation, written around 94-96 AD. It explicitly says in the final chapter not to add anything else (or take away anything) from the scriptures.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Which copy of the Bible are you using?
      Constantine had many versions of the Bible erased from history, including scripture held as Truth by Arians, Novatians, Valentinians, and Marcionites. Possession of their writings was punishable by death.
      And what of the deuterocanonical books, some of which were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls?
      Are they God's Word?

      Once again, the problem is that God likes to pick people to be conduits for His word, engaging in what is tantamount to cosmic game of chinese telephone.

      September 4, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      "Which copy of the Bible are you using?"

      I have several, but the two I use the most are the King James and the English standard because they are considered to be the most accurate translations to the originals in the original languages. And before you tell me we don't have the originals, I know. But what we do have is copies from within about 25 years of the originals so we know our current translations are the same that the early church had. You might have seen this chart before, but I find it fascinating...

      Here's a look at the time gap between the original and first surviving copies of some very important books that give us information on important historical figures ...
      Bible: 25 years
      Homer: 500
      Demosthenes: 1400
      Herodotus: 1400
      Plato: 1200
      Tacitus: 1000
      Caesar: 1000
      Pliny: 750
      Now, here's a look at how many of those manuscript copies we have ....
      New Testament: 5686
      Homer: 643
      Demosthenes: 200
      Herodotus: 8
      Plato:7
      Tacitus: 20
      Caesar:10
      Pliny: 7
      Yet we put more faith we know what happened in the Gallic Wars than what happened in the NT.

      "And what of the deuterocanonical books, some of which were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls? Are they God's Word?"

      I've never heard of them, so I'll have to look them up, but my GUESS would be 'no.' Otherwise they would have been included with the rest of the scriptures.

      September 4, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      Did you know there is a Gospel of Thomas that was excluded from the Canon?
      It contains over 100 quotes from Jesus.
      Manuscripts discovered in 1945 have been dated to around the year 300 (give or take a few decades).
      Discovery of that parchment helped shed light on previously discovered fragments of manuscripts written in Greek were part of the Thomas gospel. Those papyrus fragments, found in Egypt, have been dated to around the year 150.
      Scholars are still arguing as to the exact date of the writings – but a lot of them are saying it was an early text, written at the same time as the 4 main gospels.

      Here's an example of Christ's words from that Gospel:
      "...the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty."

      September 4, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Topher

      Doc Vestibule

      "Did you know there is a Gospel of Thomas that was excluded from the Canon?"

      I do know about it, yes. But the problem is it doesn't pass the scripture tests that the other books of the NT had to pass to be included in the Bible.

      "Manuscripts discovered in 1945 have been dated to around the year 300 (give or take a few decades)."

      Yes, that's part of the problem. First, it would be too too new to be written by Thomas and thus also too new to have been written during the lives of the other eyewitnesses. It would also have been written after Revelation which closes the canon.

      "Discovery of that parchment helped shed light on previously discovered fragments of manuscripts written in Greek were part of the Thomas gospel. Those papyrus fragments, found in Egypt, have been dated to around the year 150."

      That's still too new.

      "Scholars are still arguing as to the exact date of the writings – but a lot of them are saying it was an early text, written at the same time as the 4 main gospels."

      Even if you could somehow prove it was written even earlier during the time of the other writings, it still doesn't stand up to the standards of the other scriptures. Early church leaders call the Gospel of Thomas heretical.

      It is still interesting, though it's clearly not from God.

      September 4, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Damocles

      @topher

      I'm a little confused about something you said a little earlier about truth. If I have 6 fingers on my left hand and it is true, then does that mean you also have 6 fingers on your left hand?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Topher

      Damocles

      No. The question is whether YOU have six fingers. If that is true, then it is also true for me that YOU have 6 fingers. It doesn't matter how many I have.

      September 4, 2012 at 4:18 pm |
    • Simran

      Cryig foul Topher! When did I bring atheists into the picture? I just gave you some arguments to refute your prophecies, now you do not give counter-argument, but just blame the atheists!

      Bones not broken you say! There you go:

      Psalm 34:20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

      John 19:33,36 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs...For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

      The first point to note about this particular prophecy is that it does not actually fit the quotation of Psalm 34:20. At best, it can be said to be a paraphrase of this verse. The possibility exists that John was appealing to a prophecy that is not preserved in the Hebrew Bible. As strange as it sounds, this is not the first time that John did such a thing. In John 7:38, we find Jesus quoting a scripture which has no counterpart in the Old Testament.

      Nevertheless, for the purposes of this analysis, we will assume that John was indeed referring to Psalm 34:20. If this is the case, a quick look at the context will be enough to dispel any illusions of a Messianic prophecy.

      Psalm 34 contrasts two groups of people – the righteous (34:7) and the wicked (34:16). It is in this context that verse 20 appears, as one of the benefits of being righteous.

      Psalm 34:17-20 The righteous cry, and the Lord heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles. The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all. He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

      It should therefore be obvious that verse 20 is not directed to one individual, but is in fact directed to a group of people – the righteous. There is no indication at all in this Psalm that the author is talking about the Messiah, who was to come many centuries hence. If Christians insist that verse 20 is a Messianic prophecy, they must also concede that there must be many Messiahs, according to the context of this psalm.

      In summary then, we find no reason to believe that Psalm 34 is intended to be a Messianic prophecy. In contrast, we find that the Psalm talks about the righteous in general terms – it does not single out one particular individual.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:47 am |
    • Simran

      Apologists and believers have made Psalm 22 out to be a miraculously convincing prophecy, when there's really little of substance in it. Jesus' cry of "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" may be easily chalked up to the gospel authors having read Psalm 22. The mention of being scorned and despised by men can apply to David just as well as to Jesus. The dividing of garments and casting of lots can also be a metaphor for David's feeling of loss and loneliness, while incorporated literally by the gospel authors into their narratives. The piercing of the hands and feet referenced in verse 16 is one further example of the overblown attention to this passage, as AllAboutTheTruth.org once again illustrates:

      "...skeptics emphasize the fact that this psalm does not actually mention the act of crucifixion. This isn't surprising since execution of this type was not known in David's time, yet the Scripture tells of a time when this will take place."
      Is this really evidence? Claiming that it doesn't come out and say crucifixion, but still means it anyway? Depending on what translation or bible you read, Psalm 22:16 may be translated as "they have pierced my hands and feet", "like a lion they are at my hands and feet", "my hands and feet are shriveled", etc. A very thorough examination of the verse is available at Rejection of Pascal's Wager, suffice it to say that the reference to pierced hands and feet is quite disputable. And with that goes the only vestige of resemblance to crucifixion, which was not a very good one to begin with. If prophecy is inspired by God, couldn't God just have said crucifixion when he meant it?

      Nonetheless, the argument over what Hebrew word is used in Psalm 22:16 is making much ado about nothing. As we've seen, there is no reason to think Psalm 22 is prophecy at all, let alone that it speaks of Jesus. The passage has a very obvious original meaning, and apologists consistently fail to provide substantial evidence for their suggested secondary meaning. Admittedly, Psalm 22 does have striking similarities to the gospels, at face value, but it also has inconsistencies that are glossed over or dismissed as heavy metaphor whenever convenient to the apologist. It's always important to dig a little deeper than the surface, to make sure appearances are not deceiving. In the case of Psalm 22, it seems we have a mixed bag of misunderstanding and foul play.

      September 5, 2012 at 1:55 am |
  3. Norbert

    May the blood of Christ be upon you!

    September 4, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • MarkinFL

      who?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • snowboarder

      EWWWW!

      September 4, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Neil

      These are the modern day Pharisees that crucified Jesus Christ.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
  4. crappygovernment

    Britain lost WW2 to international bankers and international Communists.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:31 am |
  5. 2tor

    The only thing science has been consistent on, since the "dark ages", is you can't get something from nothing. So, in the beginning....?

    September 4, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Neil

      Is that why scientists refuse to explain where it all came from?

      September 4, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
  6. prophet

    even the athiests who comment on here about jesus ets are ignorant because Our Saviours Name was never this, first get your facts right as even the athiests have been misled about christinaity. An atheist has an advantage that they can be objective but they need to see past religion and Believe in God.

    chrsitianity has almost completely misrepresented Our Salvation, but who are the idiots, those that follow them or the religion, they rely on each other, they are the same as each other.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I wouldn't take much you have to say without a huge grain of salt. Your posts are gibberish.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • AJD13

      Why would I wish to believe in something that there is absolutely no proof for whatsoever and which the preponderance of observational evidence points very strongly to it NOT existing....or at least not existing in the form that any man made religion or personal belief about shaped by those religions no matter how you want to say "look past them" believes that it does?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      "chrsitianity has almost completely misrepresented Our Salvation"

      What are you babbling about? Your posts are not very well communicated, and the apostle Paul advised people who "spoke in tongues" to refrain from talking unless there was someone to translate the words so that they can be of use to the congregation. You need a translator

      September 4, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Neil

      AJD13, I wonder if you'll be denying Jesus when you are standing in hell?

      September 4, 2012 at 12:16 pm |
  7. JD

    Bull @#$%! I am so sick of this major religion whining about being put down when pretty much they run everything.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      This story is in Britain, not the U.S. Britain is almost entirely secularist

      September 4, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • JD

      I perfectly understand that the story takes place in Great Britain. My statement is true nonetheless.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • Neil

      The Queen is keeper of Jesus Christs truth. Who cares how many fools go to hell?

      September 4, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • Bob

      Colin is right on. Mary, atheism is no more a religion than bald is a hair color. Atheism is no more a religion than not collecting stamps is a hobby. Get over your delusions already.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
  8. prophet

    i actually ask all of you not to belong to a religion, but just turn To God and He will help you

    September 4, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • snowboarder

      which god are you referring?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • Jesus freaker

      I'm sure prophet is referring to the Raven God of Kamchatka and Chukotka.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      How do you define religion?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Simran

      Why is the God HE???? Why not she, it, they (plural)???

      September 4, 2012 at 11:08 am |
  9. Jeb

    While I admire their desire to stand up for their rights, based on His teachings Jesus would be happier if they shared the gospel with their co-workers and displayed the grace of God every day rather than wear a cross. Everyone that knows them should know they are a Christian based on their behavior and their love and compassion for others without needing a cross. Its likely the same employers would have fired them for sharing their faith or praying with others as well, unfortunately.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      The lady who wore the cross at work said the company changed the clothing so that the v-neck exposed her otherwise covered up cross. She shouldn't have to take it off simply because the clothing changed, right?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:46 am |
  10. prophet

    christians are very misled people as they have been lied to by the greeks that took over the belief system in approx 135 AD and this is why greece has its problems today, and then italy and then spain, all these countries and more have misled people in christianity who wanted to believe in God and this is why they are suffering now for lying to people. They are suffering for their misleading of people and no one can stop it, its just going to get worse, its Biblical

    September 4, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Mary

      You believe that Christians don't read the Bible. You're wrong. We do.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      Your posts remind me of the demon possessed girl who kept annoying the apostles with her sarcastic rants until they turned around and cast the demons out. Ready?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • Cheese Wonton

      Catholics ( I was one) don't read the Bible. In fact, if you are Catholic and bother to read the actual Bible and not their catechism, you quickly discover that Catholic dogma is so far from Christianity it is essentially a separate religion. Much of Catholic dogma is in direct conflict with the teachings of the Christian Bible. Worshiping saints and Mary are all against the Bible, yet the Catholics make a fine art of worshiping all and sundry just because some men in white robes wearing funny looking hats told them too. Complete crap.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:51 am |
  11. AJD13

    The people complaining about not being able to wear crosses I think have a legitimate complaint except perhaps it is true that it could be an occupational safety hazard in certain jobs to wear any kind of jewelry....but the relationship counselor....that one's rich...someone complaining that they're being discriminated against because they weren't allowed to discriminate against someone else. Wow. If you don't like it, go into practice privately instead of working for someone else. Otherwise, you are bound by the assignments that your employer gives you. I feel the same way about pharmacists here in the U.S. that don't want to dispense birth control. Unless you own your own pharmacy, if you're working for someone else and asked to distribute a legal product, you have a responsibility to do your job. No one, especially the woman buying it, gives a flying you-know-what what you think about it or what your religious beliefs are. You knew when you became a pharmacist that those products were sold by pharmacists just like the relationship counselor should have been aware that if employed by someone else, they may come across people they are assigned to counsel that are of various backgrounds, some that the counselor may not personally agree with.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      So if euthanasia drugs became legal, pharmacists should have to either distribute them or find work elsewhere? You propose a silly slippery slope

      September 4, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • cedar rapids

      "So if euthanasia drugs became legal, pharmacists should have to either distribute them or find work elsewhere?"

      if they refused on religious grounds, yes.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • JD

      VoiceofTruth:You said, "So if euthanasia drugs became legal, pharmacists should have to either distribute them or find work elsewhere? You propose a silly slippery slope"

      The answer is yes they should distribute them because it's not their job evaluate the ethics of a drug. That is a personal, yes personal, CHOICE of the individual taking the drug. Look at all the drugs on the market they have absolutely no qualms about that cause birth defects, cancer, death and other horrible side effects that hand out like candy completely oblivious. It is up to the patient and doctors to evaluate the safety of a drug. If they have a problem with it, yes they should leave as their CHOICE as a distributor.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:23 pm |
  12. Cheese Wonton

    The nurse doesn't have a case. There is too much case history of neclaces and other loose jewelry becoming entangled in equipment leading to death or injury of the wearer for a court to rule in her favor. The court might also wish to ask the hospitals insurer their opinion of such jewelry in the work place.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • Cutedog2

      Please site your source for nurses being hanged by their necklace in the work place.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • AJD13

      Lots of workplaces that involve machinery with moving parts like that which can be found in hospitals ban wearing jewelry. My daughter is not even allowed to wear jewelry in her gym class at school because of the risk of injury.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Cheese Wonton

      Cutedog, any form of metal is banned from the room where an MRI is conducted. Metal will be attracted to the MRI manchine when it is activated. There have been instances of large objects up to the size of fire extinguishers being pulled across the room and into an MRI. Last week in a Riverside hospital my cousin's MRI had to be postponed because an IV stand was pulled into the MRI machine, damaging the machine. You have no idea of the forces involved.
      Likewise jewelry is banned during surgery.
      In another setting, at FedEx we banned all jewelry in the warehouse. Period. No exceptions. It was simply too dangerous to have jewelry on around moving conveyor belts. Such rules are common industry practice.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      You're forgetting that the nurse said the company changed the clothing to v-necks, which exposed and otherwise covered up cross. Why can't she be allowed to wear the previous clothes?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:50 am |
  13. beairdboy

    Britain was founded on Christianity and religious freedom, this is a case where freedoms were violated.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Kyle

      I hope that is sarcasm, because britian was NOT founded on religious freedom.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Cheese Wonton

      I think you will find, upon more careful examination, that England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland considerably predate the arrival of Christianity to the British Isles. In fact, British common law predates the arrival of Christianity by two centuries.
      I think that if you studied the subject more carefully you will find that the practice of Christianity in the British Isles was anything but free. England suffered centuries of bloodshed as one version or another of Christianity tried to predominate and force it's dogmas on the British. You might remember that the US was in part settled by members of a Christian sect that was outlawed in England. So much for you fairy tales about the supposed freedoms of the British under Christianity.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • Jason

      NO country was "founded" on religion. The laws were based on religious beliefs as churches dominated society. What is happening today is simple. Separation of Church and State. People are no longer allowing the church to dominate. I have no issues with people practicing their respective faith, but keep it to yourself.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      Jason, the concept of 'separation of church and state' is actually a sham, just like freedom of speech. These expressions sound good, but are hollow and not really practical. If you truly want to separate church from state, then get rid of all laws governing behavior. Why not be able to kill and steal? And with freedom of speech, you don't have free speech if you have not been taught to think freely. Most citizens are conditioned to believe half-truths about government and history, so when they speak their words are hollow and they don't know it because they have been conditioned to think they are free.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nonsense. Stealing and murdering are infringements on the rights we have under our Const itution. They're not illegal because the Bible says they're wrong. They're illegal because they harm others who have rights. The same is true of limits on free expression–one can express one's thoughts freely as long as such expressions do not endanger others or infringe on their rights.

      No bible needed.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:57 am |
  14. Major

    If they make accommodations for the worshipers of the mass-murdering prophet, then they have to make the same accommodations for the worshipers of the foremost champion for peace and love in all of human history.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • thatsmypawn

      I'm just not sure which is which. Your description fits a lot of religious figures.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:36 am |
  15. prophet

    nowhere in the bible does it say that a christian has to wear a cross, this is personal choice just as some people have made swiss watches their gods, ah but i here you say a swiss watch has a finction, it tells us the time, and then i say but how do you know that the cross hasn't got a finction and ignorance and arrogance won't allow you to see this.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:14 am |
  16. Sam

    Well Colin, I hope the same goes for Muslims and Jews. I mean why should we focus on one religion when they are ALL full of it?

    September 4, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      Ready to be full of the love of Jesus?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:56 am |
  17. veep

    Put on your big girl pants, take off the crosses and go back to work.

    We'll see you in Church on Sunday.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:14 am |
  18. JanetMermaid

    Give me a break. The LEAST persecuted, discriminated religious people on the planet are Christians. They consider it discrimination when they don't get their way 100% of the time or when someone calls them out for their own discrimination. Wah wah wah....

    They should try being part of a REAL minority religion and having to live with all those Christians. THEN they'll understand what discrimination means.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • HenryO

      You ma'am, are an uninformed idiot if you don't Christians are the most persecuted people on Earth. It ain't even close.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • seth

      You are right Henry. They are really good at persecuting each other.......

      September 4, 2012 at 10:23 am |
    • browcarey

      JanetMermaid is correct. Modern Christians in the west don't know what persecution is. Prone to whining and discriminating against others, when someone calls them on it, they cry persecution. None of the "persecuted" people in this story has a case. Wearing jewelry is not a requirement of any form of Christianity; it's a personal choice. And if someone in an official capacity has a problem serving certain types of people, then that person needs to find a new line of work. Not being allowed to discriminate against other citizens is NOT persecution. I am a Christian, an ordained minister since 1981, and I can tell you that if any of these weak Christians crying persecution should ever encounter REAL persecution, they would not stand the test. Time to grow up, church.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • Mary

      Only atheists cry and complain all the time.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Doesn't appear that you're correct, Mary, since the folks complaining about unfair treatment are people like you.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Simran

      @Mary,
      Well, in this case it seems the Christians are crying and complaining!

      September 4, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • VoiceOf Truth

      Silly people. There is no such thing as relative persecution, or different degrees of persecution. Persecution is persecution. It is the same Satan triggering all persecution. It is a good thing that Christians in Britain are standing against it now before it accelerates even further there. It's better to stop the flood before it becomes a lake. But in any event, Christians will continue to face persecution all over the world, whether it be denial of rights, imprisonment or even death.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • cedar rapids

      "You ma'am, are an uninformed idiot if you don't Christians are the most persecuted people on Earth. It ain't even close."

      you have to be kidding me. too funny.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Amanda

      Janet, go take a peek at how many Christians live in the Middle East, or Indonesia, or places where there are a Muslim majority. Go see how many Jews live there for that matter. And then go do some research and see what happens to those who try to practice their faith openly. You must live in the U.S. or Europe to make such a statement but sadly you are very, very wrong.

      September 4, 2012 at 11:27 am |
  19. prophet

    the person is correct people who belong to christianity ahve been and are being misled but not as written in the comment.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Mary

      Can you elaborate on what you are trying to say?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:30 am |
  20. Colin

    I love it when Christian lose cases like this. It is a sign we are emerging from the last of our Dark Ages superst.itions as a society. Hopefully it will drag them, kicking and squeeling, out of the Dark Ages and into this century.

    When are you Sonworshippers going to get it? Nobody gives a damn about your silly Iron Age supersti.tions about men rising from the dead etc. You can practivce your zombie faith all you want unless/until it impacts the rights of others. Then it must be subordinated.

    September 4, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Iknowhowtothink

      It's because of atheists like you that we are in end of days.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Gosh, we must not be very effective, since kooks like you have been saying that for about 2000 years.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • John

      I'm not a Christian, but you do realize you can be sued in Europe for saying the same thing about Muslims?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Carl

      Colin, you sound like one of those fair-weather atheists who love to bash Christianity, but when it comes to Islam, you suddenly STFU and get REALLY polite. Zzz boring.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Colin

      I feel the same way about Islam. Deduct the zombie and insert a seventh century pedophile and you have Islam.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • Mary

      Colin, you're saying that you love when your religion of atheism triumphs?

      September 4, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Bob

      Colin is right.

      Mary, atheism is no more a religion than bald is a hair color. Atheism is no more a religion than not collecting stamps is a hobby. Get over your delusions already. You are pathetic.

      September 4, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.