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 A voice vote to change the DNC party platform turned to chaos Wednesday night.
September 6th, 2012
03:24 PM ET
Conventions leave atheists asking: What political party represents me?By Dan Merica, CNN Washington (CNN) – This convention season has not been good for atheists. The word "God" was reinserted in the Democratic platform after it had been removed. A plan to raise atheist billboards in the convention cities was stymied by opponents. And though there were preachers and rabbis and other religious leaders opening and closing each day of each convention, there wasn’t an avowed atheist talking up unbelief on either convention’s speaking list. The political lockout has left many nonbelievers asking, “What political party represents me?” “We are deeply saddened by the exclusion of a large number of Americans by both parties,” said Teresa MacBain, a spokeswoman for the group American Atheists, in an interview on Thursday. “It amazes me that in modern-day America, so much prejudice still exists.” After word spread Wednesday that Democrats left God out of their platform, atheists rejoiced. “Truly amazing news,” wrote Loren Miller on Atheist Nexus, a popular atheist blog. “The Republicans remain in the firm grasp of right-wing Christian religiosity, and I really don't know what it's going to take to free them from it.” But the convention committee immediately received huge pressure get God back in the platform. Even President Obama, according to CNN reporting, said, “Why on earth would that have been taken out?” when he first heard of the omission. In an awkward session that required three voice votes on the convention floor, the Democrats opted to add “God” back to the platform. For atheists, the Democrats were seen to be taking away a hard-fought victory. “We had 24 hours of joy as we felt (that) finally our government values all people,” said MacBain. “But that was short-lived. The vote last night angered many atheists and left them feeling excluded once again.” Online, atheist websites and Facebook pages went from upbeat to downcast as news spread of the platform revision. “Obama was the first president to acknowledge non believers,” Mark Musante wrote on the American Atheists’ Facebook page. “I wish he would stick to his guns.” Musante was referring to Obama’s 2009 inauguration speech, when the president said, “We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers.” Beverly Sitherwood, on the Friendly Atheist blog Facebook page, accused the Democrats of “Pandering for power.” Some atheist leaders used the platform defeat as a rallying call. “I guess a tiny step was too much to ask for,” David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, told CNN. “This was a clear message to the 16% of the voting population - we don’t count. Well, guess what, Dems - we do. And we vote.” Silverman says that 16% of the voting public identify as nonbelievers. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 12% of the electorate in 2008 was made up of people with no religious affiliation, though experts say the number of avowed atheists is much smaller. While acknowledging atheists, Obama has given platforms to high-profile religious leaders, including Rick Warren, a megachurch pastor who prayed at his inauguration, and Catholic Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who is giving the final prayer of the convention on Thursday night. American Atheists’ plans to raise billboards ridiculing the presidential candidates’ faith ended in failure. After the group put up billboards in Charlotte, North Carolina, the site of the Democratic National Convention, last month, it quickly removed them due to “physical threats to not only our staff, but the billboard company as well.” American Atheists had also planned on a billboard in Tampa, Florida, to coincide with the Republican National Convention there. But American Atheists said that all the billboard companies in Tampa rejected a sign taking aim at GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith. Perhaps because of the Republican Party’s ties to conservative Christianity, atheists tend to be Democrats. According to a 2012 Pew study, 71% of Americans who identified as atheist were Democrats. “The Republicans who spoke at the RNC seemed more like televangelists than politicians,” MacBain said. “The message was clear from the RNC: Get God, or get out.” The Republican’s 2012 platform mentions God 12 times, many of which describe the “God-given” rights that the Republican Party says are inherent to the American idea. Though most atheist groups claim that there are closeted atheists serving as representatives and senators, only one has come out as such. In September 2007, Rep. Pete Stark, Democrat of California, affirmed his atheism in a speech at the Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard University. soundoff (3,922 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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מלחמה בלתי נגמרת
If most people believe the bible is true , then we have an answer for most of todays problems around the world. Allow your children to make their own view of the world ( free from religion) and watch progress flower and peace will bloom.
Northvancan if what you're saying is done that way then we're not out of the wood yet. Just check this page about some of the world so called good Atheist people.
http://thriceholy.net/killersf.html
So exactly how to atheists want to be "represented"?
By leaving all references to the God of Abraham out?
atheism and Christianity are mutually exclusive world views.
No God is needed, God is not real.
Maybe but does not mean that both can not work together. My Civil Rights hero is A.Phillip Randolph a Atheist and him and The Rev Martin Luther King worked together in the battle for Civil Rights. So while being polar opposites does not mean that they can not work together.
Hi Chad, I see you forgot to put on your thinking cap again today.
When you eat cereal for breakfast, does the box have to have some reference to Christ for you to be able to eat them? When you go to the park with your family do you require a giant cross or statue of Jesus to enable you to have fun? When you pay your taxes, do you only pay if the tax form says "In God We Trust" somewhere on it? Does injecting your faith into any and every secular sector of society make your faith stronger? Atheists don't want to inject their "brand" of ideolgy into secular life either, they just don't appreciate you dumping yours on everyone else claiming it's whats best for us. Not having your religion out in the public view constantly should not have ANY effect on your faith if your faith is true, only if your faith is weak and crumbling do you resort to having to remind yourself and everyone else of it day in and day out.
"God is not real" – that focuses on God, perhaps the God of Abraham giving it special status. Perhaps TheVocalAtheist means "no god is real".
Yes, Chad, we want the god of Abraham left out. We want to be represented by leaders, not believers; by government which is religion-neutral; by representatives that care about what is best for our country, not what is best for the Christian church.
We're not the first people to want this. The founding fathers wanted the same thing. That's why it's in the constitution.
@Mass Debater,
so, but "working together" you mean "not referencing the God of Abraham"?
🙂
sounds like you feel "working together" means Christians dont get to say anything in public about their faith..?
@Chad
So have you figured out how non-belief in god is not a worldview yet? You seemed to have run away from the thread the last time you made the mistake that it is.
"sounds like you feel "working together" means Christians dont get to say anything in public about their faith..?"
I said, and I quote "they just don't appreciate you dumping yours on everyone else claiming it's whats best for us." I don't mind you mentioning your faith, you can say "Hi, i'm Chad and i'm a Christian" to me every morning if you wish. But when you and your brethren say "Hi, i'm Chad and i'm a Christian and you are going to burn in heII if you arent one too" and "We're a Christian Nation" when I am part of the nation but definately not Christian, and when you push your ideology so farin my face as to have it stamped on every coin, printed on every dollar and engraved on every courthouse, this does not feel like a nation of inclusivity as intended by our founders, but one of exclusivity which is the one they fought against. It tells our poor and huddled masses that it's not enough to be an upright law abiding tax paying citizen to be valued in our nation, but you must ascibe belief in somes brand of invisible deity to be recognized. And the fact that you and so many other Christians are so completely blind to this is whats most shocking and frustrating.
I was enjoying the day with my three year old at the park the other day and I noticed several signs that said "No Dog's Allowed" along with a few others that read "No Bicycles". Now dog's and bicycles are not bad and I have no problem with them, but at this small center of town park that is owned by everyone and is for everyone, not just dog owners and cyclists, allowing both would have lessend others enjoyment of the park for their just wasn't enough room for the people to enjoy a relaxing lawn break when they have to watch out for cyclists or end up stepping in dog feces. So what i'm saying Chad, is to keep your dog & bicycle at home where they are appropriate and let eveyone else enjoy their day without the nuisance of you trying to ride over my rights and place your religious feces on my money.
"sounds like you feel "working together" means Christians dont get to say anything in public about their faith..?"
Christians can, and will, say anything they want in public. It's Christian politicians who need to keep their mouths shut.
It's one thing to hear from Chad about his beliefs. It's quite another to have a government representative using his power and influence, to promote one religion over another (or over none whatsoever), in public.
@Mass Debater
right, that's what I said, by "working together" you mean, "Christians arent allowed to discuss their faith in public"
@EnjaySea "Christians can, and will, say anything they want in public. It's Christian politicians who need to keep their mouths shut."
=>wow, so OK you REALLY object to the founding fathers referencing God.. ok.
"Christians arent allowed to discuss their faith in public"
Are you purposely not fvcking listening Chad? You can "discuss" as in "I am Christian" all you want, but when the "discussion" ends and the attempted conversion and indoctrination begins, thats where I draw the fvcking line so no you cannot "discuss" your faith if that includes injecting it in public schools, injecting it in monetary policy or in the judicial system. You are either stupid or blatantly dishonest, my guess is a lot of both.
@Chad
Awww why are you ignoring me Chad? Is it because you knew that you were wrong yesterday, and that you are wrong with your original post?
"=>wow, so OK you REALLY object to the founding fathers referencing God.. ok."
Yes, Chad. I really do object to any politician referencing god. You completely understand my point. And our constitution backs me up. Thanks for summarizing.
@EnjaySea
how can the consti tution back you up, when the founding fathers wrote it, and you have already acknowledged that THEY used God "inappropriately"?
I'll tell you how Chad. Men can write a law, and still say whatever they want. I know it's in the constitution, because I saw it, in DC, with my own eyes. The fact that they mentioned god, doesn't change what's written down with pen and ink. As much as you Christians would love that clause to go away, you can't argue it away.
Well, you could. By changing the constitution, I guess. Knock yourself out.
***********************>>>>>>>
B"H
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947by3X6_RU
DOES HE AND THE REST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
WANT THE TORAH?
DO THEY WANT THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM AND DOES THE WORLD AND WILL YOU PLEASE
ASK MR. ROMNEY, AND HIS CONVENTION THE FOLLOWING QUESTION.
WE THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM
WE WANT TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE WORLD TO
BUILD THE 3RD TEMPLE.
WE WANT TO ADVANCE THE EDUCATION TO THE WORLD
THROUGH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
THE TEMPLE INSITUTE IN JERSUSALEM WILL HELP THE
MINISTRY OF EDUCATION IN THE UNITED STATES WITH
PERMISSION.
MR. ROMNEY THE FOLLOWING QUESTION IS DIRECTED TO YOU.
DO YOU MOURN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SECOND TEMPLE AND WILL YOU ALLOW THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM TO SERVE HASHEM IN THE LAND
PLEASE ASK THE CANDIDATE THE FOLLOWING QUESTION.
JONATHAN POLLARD HAS SPENT ENOUGH TIME IN PRISON.
IT IS TIME THAT HE IS PARDONED.
WILL THE PRESIDENT PARDON JONTATHAN POLLARD ON
THE PLATFORM OF HUMANITARIANISM
WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE TO LET
JONATHAN POLLARD GO BACK TO ISRAEL
WITH HIS WIFE ESTER AND LIVE THEIR LIVES IN
ISRAEL ONCE IF POSSIBLE THE PRESIDENT
AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE TO THIS.
LET MY PEOPLE GO. PLEASE PARDON JONATHAN POLLARD
MR. PRESIDENT.
THANK YOU,
TUVIA
see my post about JP and this Richman dude below video below. What a nutball.
NO!!!! HE IS A TRAITOR AND DESERVES TO ROT.
Ya, hindu Jew, filthy self centered can build his temple in his ancestral home land Egypt, Do not mess with truth absolute hindu Jew's filthy secular s, desire's of truth absolute, or Muslim'swill bury hindu Jew's filthy secular s with their hindu filthy family of Pharaoh's. Nothing but hindu's racist of Egypt and Persia pretending to be what they never were Israelite to hind, fool humanity. For more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html
B"H
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947by3X6_RU
DOES HE AND THE REST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
WANT THE TORAH?
DO THEY WANT THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM AND DOES THE WORLD AND WILL YOU PLEASE
ASK MR. ROMNEY, AND HIS CONVENTION THE FOLLOWING QUESTION.
WE THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM
WE WANT TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE WORLD TO
BUILD THE 3RD TEMPLE.
WE WANT TO ADVANCE THE EDUCATION TO THE WORLD
THROUGH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
THE TEMPLE INSITUTE IN JERSUSALEM WILL HELP THE
MINISTRY OF EDUCATION IN THE UNITED STATES WITH
PERMISSION.
MR. ROMNEY THE FOLLOWING QUESTION IS DIRECTED TO YOU.
DO YOU MOURN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SECOND TEMPLE AND WILL YOU ALLOW THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM TO SERVE HASHEM IN THE LAND
PLEASE ASK THE CANDIDATE THE FOLLOWING QUESTION.
JONATHAN POLLARD HAS SPENT ENOUGH TIME IN PRISON.
IT IS TIME THAT HE IS PARDONED.
WILL THE PRESIDENT PARDON JONTATHAN POLLARD ON
THE PLATFORM OF HUMANITARIANISM
WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE TO LET
JONATHAN POLLARD GO BACK TO ISRAEL
WITH HIS WIFE ESTER AND LIVE THEIR LIVES IN
ISRAEL ONCE IF POSSIBLE THE PRESIDENT
AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE TO THIS.
LET MY PEOPLE GO. PLEASE PARDON JONATHAN POLLARD
MR. PRESIDENT.
THANK YOU,
TUVIA
This Jonathan Pollard is a highly unstable traitor to the U.S. He would be a danger to society anywhere, though. Keep him locked up!
And this Richman dude is a real nutball. Just google his name along with "red cow".
JEW'S ARE HINDU'S, DENIERS OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE
Ya, hindu Jew, filthy self centered can build his temple in his ancestral home land Egypt, Do not mess with truth absolute hindu Jew's filthy secular s, desire's of truth absolute, or Muslim'swill bury hindu Jew's filthy secular s with their hindu filthy family of Pharaoh's. Nothing but hindu's racist of Egypt and Persia pretending to be what they never were Israelite to hind, fool humanity. For more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html
Religion is not an argument of ignorance but one of conclusion. I conclude that the Universe and God are one and the same that people are Gods children therefor one d ay we will all be Gods or more to the point one with God (its all the same as far as I can tell) I would ask you what is or should be societies main goal if not godliness...does not it appear that thats what societies goal is.
Okay, david, since you reposted, I'll repost my re-reply
"Godliness" according to whose definition of godliness, David? Who decides? Because there are an infinite number of definitions of godliness, because people have come up with an infinite number of gods. The actions of the 9/11 hijackers were a prime example of what they believed to be "godliness". No doubt they were praying to their god that their mission would be a success, and their god answered their prayers, apparently because – from their perspective – the mission was far more successful than they could have ever hoped for.
When I say that religion is an argument from ignorance what i mean is that religion offers no evidence for its conclusions. Religion simply offers "We don't know how it happened, therefore god did it."
@david o
" I conclude that the Universe and God are one and the same that people are Gods children therefor one d ay we will all be Gods or more to the point one with God **(its all the same as far as I can tell)** "
Well, if you put it in more quantum physics like framework for discussions sake, then in a sense, we *are* all 'one.' In that 'model' then, we are *already* 'one' with everything, as we 'are' everything, only distinctions in vibrations and energy fluctuations, etc...
Peace...
Godliness is a concept so big it cant be written. But the closest shortest answer I can come up with is infinite power and infinate restraint. To those who say humans dont need god I would say does a child need its parents?
which god(s)
And what is your evidence for your conclusion?
From what I can tell it comes down to you can't think of a better explanation.....therefore.....god.
@david o
Where's the love, dude ? And here I was trying to help you out by wrapping a big ol' frame around your argument, that would help you create at least a modic um of possibility.
Peace...
"Godliness is a concept so big it cant be written."
Then it is meaningless, if you can't communicate the concept why should anyone accept what you say is true?
Now you are saying "I can't explain it....you just have to believe me".
Because you wont humble yourself to a higher power like an obstinant child. If you would you would see the answers very clearly. The evidence of god is all around us. Even the goals of humanity are godlike, peace, knowledge, empowerment, universal love, creation. It seems clear to me.
David, you said: "To those who say humans dont need god I would say does a child need its parents?" Ignoring for the moment the fact that whether or not someone needs something is proof if that something's existence, I think you've actually hit on something: in the childhood of civilization, people probably needed a god or gods. As a child grows and matures and learns to think, so to has the human race matured, and become much more knowledgeable. We know now that lightning doesn't come from angry gods, and that an eclipse is an entirely natural event, not a god threatening to snuff out the sun forever. We are no longer children – we no longer need the gods of yesterday. Come on, David – I know it's scary, stepping away from the comfort of home for the first time, but you have to take that first step toward intellectual maturity.
david,
In one post you claim that godliness is such a big concept it can't be explained.
Then in the next post you say god is all around us and the universe, human emotions and knowledge are all proof and therefore it seems "clear" to you because apparently it is so simple.
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and I reject your fallacious aguments out of hand.
Ethal I have to laugh at that argument because it seems so short sighted to me. Any alien race that was say a million years older would seem as gods to us primitives. Nevermind to him that created space time. The concept of a superior being seems so easy for me to conceptualize but not visualize. He is to us as we are to the ants only infinitely more so.
@david o
Because you wont humble yourself to a higher power...
You are so freaking brainwashed with nonsense and unproven philosophy that you are blind to giving your critical thinking skills an opportunity to explore, weigh the facts and then come to a logical conclusion. Your stunting the most powerful part of your existence to a point of absurdity and worthlessness. I know you cannot see it but take some advice and rethink your position with an open mind, you just may find that your time here is very, very short and there is so much to learn and enjoy. Don't miss out on it thinking you will go somewhere when you die. This is it, there's no God, no Heaven, no Hell, no Soul, no Spirit, absolutely nothing supernatural in our existence and reality.
One day Jesus was walking by the pearly gates when St Peter asked him to watch the gates for a few minutes. Jesus agreed and in a few minutes he saw an old old man approach. This man was OLD. He walked very slowly, had a halting gait, long white hair and a great long white beard. When Jesus asked if he could help, the old man said that he was looking for his son. Jesus wanted to help but didn't think he could because there were millions of people there.
“I know I can identify him," said the old man, "because he has holes in his hands and feet!"
Jesus looks at him in shock and says, "Father? Is that you?"
The old man looks at Jesus and says, "Pinocchio?"
Now whos the one arguing ingnorantly.
Ummm – david? Here's a hint, okay? That wasn't an argument! That is what is referred to as a "joke".
@david: in case you're wondering, that laughter you hear may not just be for the joke.
The world needs to shake this fairy tail stuff quickly , before we destroy each other and the planate. How can people believe the world is flat when looking at the moon and sun? How stupid is humanity? Only God knows.
The Three Wise Men are gathered around the newly born child, talking to Mary and Joseph about what they are going to name the baby. Wise Men #1 and #2 suggest a number of names, but these are all rejected. Wise Man#3 says, “Hmm – let me have a closer look at the child – sometimes that helps with the name. “ He goes to stand up but, forgetting that he’s in a manger, bashes his head on the low rafters. “Jesus Christ!!” he exclaims, to which Joseph replies, “Hey, great name! We were going to call him Bob.””
and nothing more than.
I'm sorry "AtheismIsCrap", but you assertion regarding atheism is unfounded. I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
AtheismIsCrap – and nothing more than.
I smell a disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. writer!
You guys think people are the highest power there is...god I hope thats not true.
The highest power on this planet, yes. Out in the universe their are probably more advanced and powerful civilizations, but as of now they are unknown to us. But even if we turn out to be the highest power would that be a bad thing?
Well your idea of 'god' is scarier than what any human is capible of. Remember it is HE who judges us and sends us to burn for all eternity if we upset him. Yeah. Real nice.
david,
So it scares you to think there is no god? Your god punishes people for eternity just because he gets mad that people don't believe he exists when he hasn't given any good evidence for his existence. And no, the natural world in no way proves an intelligent personal god.
i have a feeling bacteria may win the day when its all said and done.
You would think Obama would have a little more sypathy for us atheists considering he always talks about standing up for the little guy. Atheists have been persecuted since the beginning of religeon, it is about time we got our due respect and fair treatment! Atheists united, we'll never be defeated!
Obama's too brainwashed by religion... The principal reason I didn't vote for him last time, and won't this time...
@PraisetheLard
Hmmm... So, who will you vote for then... or will you not vote at all ?
Peace....
"David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, told CNN. “This was a clear message to the 16% of the voting population – we don’t count."
Nope, it's only 2%. Mr. Silverman must learn to get his fact straight.
And
"According to a 2012 Pew study, 71% of Americans who identified as atheist were Democrats."
Okay, let's do a lil math:
314,317,000 (US population) x 2% or .2 (atheist's population)= 62,863,400
=62,863,400 x .71 = 44,633,014
I just don't what percentage of which (44,633,014) are allowed to vote.
Are they enough to win a county sheriff?
where did you get the 2 percent statistic from? Sounds like BS to me.
.2 is 20%
According to the U.S. Census of 2008 15% of Americans DO NOT HAVE A RELIGION. Refer to this link http://goddoesnotexist1.blogspot.com/2012/07/how-many-atheists-are-there-in-united.html
"Okay, let's do a lil math:" this would be funny if it weren't so sad. Not only do these Christards have trouble with reallity, they have trouble counting as well.
2% of 314 million is 6.2 million, not 62 million you moron. I'm sure we could win nearly every sheriff seat in US with your kind of math...
lol... excellent example of how facts get in the way of a religious world view. If you're life is based on magic, numbers pose a problem.
The '.' function of my calculator did suck-up and has done a great favor to atheists.
@God Does Not Exist
Actually it's 16%, where make the at least 12% from which. While atheists and agnostics are sharing the remaining 4%.
But Gretzky picks up the rebound and tucks in the top corner!
Jesus saves, the rest of you take twelve points of damage.
What's this???? The referee is disallowing the goal!! Apparently either Gretzky was in the crease, or else the rules forbid fictional characters from playing goal.
I quickly dodge!
@Amni
Is your reflex defense over 21?
I slowly Ford
Darnit, it matches 🙁
@Amni
Well in D&D 3.5 ties went to the defender, but we are playing 4.0 so ties go to the attacker now. Take your damage.
jesus save??? Saves what? Green stamps? He has a butterfly collection? Saves old newspapers? Doesn't save humans, they are dying from all the diseases he created, and malfunctioning internal organs, or born deformed.
Well, 1+1=2, thank you for demonstrating empirically that lack of mental acuity knows no boundaries between believers and non-believers
@amn and hue
Wow! You two make me want to break out my dice and books and have some good ol hack and slash fun! 🙂
@Damocles
Then my work here is done. Go forth my son and roll thy D20.
@hue
Ahhh the memories.... I still have the 1st set of dice I bought so many years ago. No D&D books though, but I have a few milk crates stuffed with RIFTS books.
Religion is nothing but D&D on a grand and foolish scale.
They can relax. The Democrat Party's inclusion of God is about as sincere as their rejection of gay marriage in the 2008 platform. Everyone knew that Obama was lying about "believing" that marriage was between one man and one woman. Athiests can take solace in the old saying that "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". God was clearly forced into the platform against the will of the delagates...there is no sincerity there. Athiests have their representatives.
Yep.
Peace...
So basically you are saying that the Democratic platform is a lie.
it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone beyond the age of 9 or so that every politician does nothing but lie. It is required to get elected.
The universe is too complex and wonderous to have created itself how can one dispute it. Yet one humbled by the size scope and wonders of the universe can not be humlbed by its creator...childish stubborness.
David, that's referred to as an argument from ignorance. You don't know the answer, so the answer must be god. No, the proper answer simply is, we don't know.
David, what am I holding in my hand right now? Since you don't know, and there's no way for you to know, is it god? Of course not.
So because you can't think of any other explanation....god did it.
This is an "Argument from Ignorance"
Not an argument of ignorance one of conclusion. I conclude that the Universe and God are one and the same that people are Gods children therefor one d ay we will all be Gods or more to the point one with God (its all the same as far as I can tell) I would ask you what is or should be societies main goal if not godliness...does not it appear that thats what societies goal is.
"Godliness" according to whose definition of godliness, David? Who decides? Because there are an infinite number of definitions of godliness, because people have come up with an infinite number of gods. The actions of the 9/11 hijackers were a prime example of what they believed to be "godliness". No doubt they were praying to their god that their mission would be a success, and their god answered their prayers, apparently because – from their perspective – the mission was far more successful than they could have ever hoped for.
David O, if the universe is so complex, that a "god" must've made it....well that "god" must be extremely complex as well...what created "god"?
If you can believe "god" was always just there, then I'll choose to believe the universe was "always just there" too....don't you see the fundamental flaw in your way of thinking?
"Not an argument of ignorance one of conclusion."
David,
You conclude there is a god because you can't come up with (you are ignorant of) a better explanation. It is a logical fallacy.
@david: humans don't need god, we need to understand where we are going. knowing where we come from is a nice thought but achieves little, accomplishing goals in medicine and space science will help humans a lot further than waiting on some "nanny god" to return and clean up our mess.
religion blocks scienctific achievements when it doesn't agree with either the means or the information we gather, thus it slows human progression forward.
religion divides instead of unifying; we are only human.
@david: humble.... The great philosopher Inego Montaya once said, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." All day today I've been reading religious people's posts about how humble they are and then they launch into some other arrogant statement about how atheists just don't get it or how glorious your god is. Please get to a dictionary. Check out the word "humble" and then pray god forgives you. You've disobeyed him. He commands you be humble and you disobeyed him. If you have a cat-o-nine tails this is the part where you should be flogging yourself.
Religion is so 200 years ago.
you forget a 0.
Chris, you're correct... Religion is a big "Zero"... unfortunately, there are too many that have been brainwashed...
All you god botheras should no we all have to live by the smae Laws,and they are the Laws of nature.
We are the real people from the Mormon chuch, not their billboards, not their paid commercials claiming tax exemption!
http://youtu.be/XFQmLGXt0Wc
nice man good for you
this is were the love is
peace
Yahweh will never no love he is stuck on jealousy
http://www.seesharppress.com/jealousy.gif
what a wonderful feeling to see folks released from the shackles of religion. i think i will try to keep that phrase and use it - "pull out the wall that separates the 2 bins of knowledge"
Find out the truth about Mitt and his religion!!!!!
http://youtu.be/D3lvKgN_htA
Emily Pearson is hot...