September 6th, 2012
03:24 PM ET
Conventions leave atheists asking: What political party represents me?
By Dan Merica, CNN
Washington (CNN) – This convention season has not been good for atheists.
The word "God" was reinserted in the Democratic platform after it had been removed. A plan to raise atheist billboards in the convention cities was stymied by opponents. And though there were preachers and rabbis and other religious leaders opening and closing each day of each convention, there wasn’t an avowed atheist talking up unbelief on either convention’s speaking list.
The political lockout has left many nonbelievers asking, “What political party represents me?”
“We are deeply saddened by the exclusion of a large number of Americans by both parties,” said Teresa MacBain, a spokeswoman for the group American Atheists, in an interview on Thursday. “It amazes me that in modern-day America, so much prejudice still exists.”
After word spread Wednesday that Democrats left God out of their platform, atheists rejoiced. “Truly amazing news,” wrote Loren Miller on Atheist Nexus, a popular atheist blog. “The Republicans remain in the firm grasp of right-wing Christian religiosity, and I really don't know what it's going to take to free them from it.”
But the convention committee immediately received huge pressure get God back in the platform. Even President Obama, according to CNN reporting, said, “Why on earth would that have been taken out?” when he first heard of the omission.
In an awkward session that required three voice votes on the convention floor, the Democrats opted to add “God” back to the platform.
For atheists, the Democrats were seen to be taking away a hard-fought victory. “We had 24 hours of joy as we felt (that) finally our government values all people,” said MacBain. “But that was short-lived. The vote last night angered many atheists and left them feeling excluded once again.”
Online, atheist websites and Facebook pages went from upbeat to downcast as news spread of the platform revision.
“Obama was the first president to acknowledge non believers,” Mark Musante wrote on the American Atheists’ Facebook page. “I wish he would stick to his guns.”
Musante was referring to Obama’s 2009 inauguration speech, when the president said, “We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers.”
Beverly Sitherwood, on the Friendly Atheist blog Facebook page, accused the Democrats of “Pandering for power.”
Some atheist leaders used the platform defeat as a rallying call.
“I guess a tiny step was too much to ask for,” David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, told CNN. “This was a clear message to the 16% of the voting population - we don’t count. Well, guess what, Dems - we do. And we vote.”
Silverman says that 16% of the voting public identify as nonbelievers. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 12% of the electorate in 2008 was made up of people with no religious affiliation, though experts say the number of avowed atheists is much smaller.
While acknowledging atheists, Obama has given platforms to high-profile religious leaders, including Rick Warren, a megachurch pastor who prayed at his inauguration, and Catholic Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who is giving the final prayer of the convention on Thursday night.
American Atheists’ plans to raise billboards ridiculing the presidential candidates’ faith ended in failure. After the group put up billboards in Charlotte, North Carolina, the site of the Democratic National Convention, last month, it quickly removed them due to “physical threats to not only our staff, but the billboard company as well.”
American Atheists had also planned on a billboard in Tampa, Florida, to coincide with the Republican National Convention there. But American Atheists said that all the billboard companies in Tampa rejected a sign taking aim at GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith.
Perhaps because of the Republican Party’s ties to conservative Christianity, atheists tend to be Democrats. According to a 2012 Pew study, 71% of Americans who identified as atheist were Democrats.
“The Republicans who spoke at the RNC seemed more like televangelists than politicians,” MacBain said. “The message was clear from the RNC: Get God, or get out.”
The Republican’s 2012 platform mentions God 12 times, many of which describe the “God-given” rights that the Republican Party says are inherent to the American idea.
Though most atheist groups claim that there are closeted atheists serving as representatives and senators, only one has come out as such.
In September 2007, Rep. Pete Stark, Democrat of California, affirmed his atheism in a speech at the Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard University.
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
I thought about being an atheist once, the pride comes easily for me, but I just couldn't do that whole bigotry thing they do, and they silence free speech, remove crosses and Christmas decorations (you can have Christmas decorations in public in Egypt, so we're not really teh land of the free) and they spend a lot of money on promoting bigotry against religious minorities. However, they are accepted by Democrats (they posted their mocking anti-Christian billboards) The Democratic party will accept anyone who votes for them, even if they are Socialists, racists (gay socialists, etc)
joe – i think you are projecting.
joe – are you truly suggesting that in america we can't have christmas decorations in public? that is rich!
I thought about being an atheist once
This is slightly dishonest, don't you think? If you believe, how would you "think" about becoming an atheist? Do you believe because you choose to, or because of your life experience?
the pride comes easily for me,
Pride is not necessarily a bad thing. Pride becomes a stumbling block when it is over blown or blinding.
but I just couldn't do that whole bigotry thing they do,
I'm seeing some of that pride thing you think you do so well. It is easy to point a finger and call someone a name. And the word "bigot" seems to be a favorite these days. It's bandied about on all sides, and seldom in a way that rings true.
and they silence free speech,
What atheist has impinged your free speech? Is it silencing free speech to speak themselves? Is it silencing free speech to request that the government uphold the constitution?
remove crosses and Christmas decorations (you can have Christmas decorations in public in Egypt, so we're not really teh land of the free)
You can place any and all crosses and Christmas decorations on public display on your private property. The government (local, state or federal) can not display ANY religious symbol, unless they wish to display ALL religious symbols. To do otherwise would violate the constitution.
and they spend a lot of money on promoting bigotry against religious minorities.
I'm going to need you to cite this with some references please. The only people I see spending money on promoting bigotry are firmly on the faith side of the equation.
However, they are accepted by Democrats (they posted their mocking anti-Christian billboards) The Democratic party will accept anyone who votes for them, even if they are Socialists, racists (gay socialists, etc)
The democratic party upholds a great American value. Equality. Possibly the most American value. Ranks right up there with Freedom.
I thought about being an atheist once – B S
I just couldn't do that whole bigotry thing they do, and they silence free speech – B S anyone and everyone are welcome into the undefined group of free thinkers.
remove crosses and Christmas decorations – B S , just does not happen here in US, unless you count most stores three weeks into January, but then they have them ready to go the day after Holloween so they can be up in everyone face for almost 3 months out of the year.
they spend a lot of money on promoting bigotry against religious minorities – B S, very little money is spent by the few organized atheists compared to the millions spent by organized religion. The fact is that by 2007 the Catholic Church alone spent $650,000,000 on settlements from priest abuse cases, last atheist billboards cost just over $1 million. And at over 70% of the populace it's hard to claim Christians are a "religious minority".
"even if they are Socialists, racists (gay socialists, etc)" So Joe here calls atheists "bigots" then refers to the "gay socialists" showing how bigoted he really is.
Joe, you are a dishonest, disgusting bigot who doesn't deserve the freedoms and security you are currently enjoying that were meant for everyone in this country, not just the smug ignorant white male protestant bigots who gained power and control during the darkest periods of American history, establishing their "old money" power structure on the backs of the slaves and that money and property still survives to this day. Just take a look at the history of property rights in almost every southern state and you can see the clear line drawn between the old bigots and the generations that followed inherriting all the wealth while trying to abandon any fault or guilt for how they got it.
@Joe, Thinking about being an atheist is not the same thing as DOING THE THINKING that leads you to atheism. It's like saying, "I thought about getting a job once..." This very different than thinking about HOW to get a job. Really, your expression is just exposing a level of intellectual laziness. Rather than do the work required to critically come to conclusion, you sit back and only think about what thinking would be like if you thought—which, is not really thinking.
As to the Christmas remark, I doubt you have read many of the posts here but a lot of atheists have come out in support of the cross being at the memorial. Most atheists I know recognize that xmas trees are actually pagan symbols celebrating the winter solstice, and having them is actually condemned in the bible. Why would we be against that? So, can you see the difference here in the power of thinking versus, thinking about thinking?
Believe or don't believe...its all the same to me. But I am sooo tired of all the bickering and descrimination. Best way to end anger in the name of religion is not to create more of it. The only people's behavior we are in control of is our own.
And beliefs show themselves on the level of behavior. It matters what people believe. In many cases it matters gravely.
adam – very true. take the westboro baptists for instance or the radical islamists. their beliefs are broadcast in their daily lives.
on the other hand, the average person of mild belief or none at all, go about their lives in a more contented society.
Yes @ Adam and @ snowboarder. I definately agree it does matter what people believe, particularly when it comes to extremists. If I had my choice I'd soften extremist behavior and extremist beliefs (all sides) but of course theres always...how.?!?
Putting the kibosh/”google” on all religions in less than a minute: Tis amazing how easy this is --
• There was probably no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• There was probably no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "
Another fvcking novel by Reality.
For those who are reading-challenged, a PowerPoint slide:
SAVING 1.5 BILLION LOST MUSLIMS:
THERE NEVER WERE AND NEVER WILL BE ANY ANGELS I.E. NO GABRIEL, NO ISLAM AND THEREFORE NO MORE KORANIC-DRIVEN ACTS OF HORROR AND TERROR LIKE 9/11.
SAVING 2 BILLION LOST CHRISTIANS:
THERE WERE NEVER ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS AND THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS I.E. NO EASTER, NO CHRISTIANITY.
SAVING 15.5 MILLION FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM:
ABRAHAM AND MOSES PROBABLY NEVER EXISTED.
Added details upon request.
I am an atheist and I believe it is our duty as Free Thinkers to spread the word, to teach the world the truth. So long as men worship beings that do not exist, society is doomed.
If you disagree, just look at this Presidential election and how much religion has divided this country. Without religion we could move forward with things like stem cell research, with religion we can't even agree on women's right to reproductive health, ie planned parenthood, abortion, etc.
So you are sort of an evangelical free thinker?
Bill, I don't get it. Are you trying to be funny?
rational thought does occasionally need an advocate.
If you had the power would you force us to believe as you believe?
Atheism is hinduism, absurdity of hindu's pagans, Atheism is domain of hindu ignorant animals not of huam in their hindu Judaism filthy self center ism, every hindu Atheist or Jew's filthy self centered, deniers of truth absolute do not belong to humanity but with their own kind in a PIG, self centered farm, for more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/
Wow, go back to bed, you must be tired after spewing so much hate
HEY – HEY GUESS WHAT? YOUR MOM'S GONNA NEED SOME HELP AROUND THE HOUSE AFTER THE NIGHT WE HAD. I THINK YOU SHOULD GET OFF THE COMPUTER AND DO SOME CHORES
Tesll your God He can kma.
@HINDU – MY MAMA CAN TAKE CARE OF HER OWN BUSINESS. I HOPE YOU ENJOYED THE NIGHT!
This Jonathan Pollard is a traitor to the U.S. And a highly unstable lout to boot. Keep him locked up.
And just google Richman and "red cow" to read more about this nutball.
Please fvck off. No one is going to support freeing a convicted traitor.
waaa waaa waaa
Politics means pandering to the majority, the majority of Americans claim they believe in a higher being, let the politicians court the religious as long as when it comes to making policy separation of church and state are the rule.
You reminded me the early times of Christianity when the head of the state and the head of the church was same... like constentinople added trinity concept to the bibile on early third century... at that time there was no technologies like we have these days... these days if someone firts in this part of the world and the other part of the world know it right away.... but at that time it was not possible.... also if someone stood against the head of the state/church will be crucified...
Constentinople? Doesn't he always stay in Turkey?
at that time it was part of the roman emperor...
or byzentene 🙂 whatever...
Religion is one small step for mankind, one big leap to futility.
Do you know what I find amusing?
The whole 'tacked on' take of this addition to the Democratic platform. Yet, the religious people will point and say ""Lookee, they're all mostly religious types, aren't they!!'
Of course, the whole constant barrage of invocation to God in the Republican platform comes across as bogus, too.
But it woke up all the prophecy types, Those fairy tales tell tales of the world doing as its doing. That little incident of Saying no to God three times tripped them all out. You got to believe it. But its all foolishness to non believers, But the fairy tales even said that too!
Makes me glad i'm agnostic.
I herd a great quote, I think it is form Dawkins but I'm not sure. "Agnostic is atheist writ nice. Atheist is agnostic writ aggressive."
If that's the case, I prefer atheist. Nobody is going to hand your rights to you. You need to fight for them.
Sivick, to calrify, you do believe there is a god, just that that god is unknowable?
What are you if you don't care if there's a god?
Shat out of luck when you die, hehe
religion = ancient myth. Atheism is myth understood. Religions have become dangerous. Too much science is denied because of religion.
Maybe because science does such a great job doing things..... chemical weapons, biological weapons.... heck, yall did such a great job with Nuclear weapons. And the work with drones and other new and better ways to kill folks.... maybe something needs to hold a bit of science in "check"
Or , maybe science is just like everything in society, including Religion. In the wrong hands, can kill, hobble and subjugate millions of people or help millions.
....just depends on how us as humans use either.
Religion is the the guidance to follow to live this earthly life and the guidance has few DON"T and most of DO... like federal laws of the country and then state laws and then county and so on... the question that everyone should ask himself is how do i choose the correct one as there thousands out there... this is where human need to spend time and brain to think of and study different faiths and by using the brain chose the true one, because 2 can not be true... true should always be ONE... here individual should use their brain like whom should i believe and submit myself? to a creator or a creation? and so on... and then go thru all the faiths around the earth and then pick the one matches with your answer of the output of your study...
Now the science is part of the religion and it is not other way around... because the one who discover things is being well taken care of by his Creator... and also The Creator would chose one among the entire earth to send a message to the mankind... that should not confuse us that the science or scientist is above The Creator... also if you pay attention that the scientist or no one can make anything or little tiny thing out of nothing, can they? we all make something out of something and these something comes from where? comes from the earth and who is the owner of the earth? i guess if you are intellectual enough to find the answer....
So I would follow my religion as it is THE ONLY guidance for me to live this earthly life and at the same time I would be thankful to The Creator that someone among us been blessed to discover something with the help of the Creator of the earth and heavens and anything between them...
Also if you think about yourself... you do not own your own body even... cos you are made from clay and given the soul and after ending of this earthly life the soul goes where it comes from and the box (human body) goes back to where it came from meaning to the ground.... and on that day every single human will be raised from this ground and soul will be emerged to be judged... and then... decision will be made... either will be on the right or left.... and then there will be no ending... now if some wants to see the proof... you can't see the proof... its like you use your gifted brain and gather all the knowledge from the books and combine them and accept it.... thats all....
Ok, so you seem like you went on a journey and studied all the religions mankind has to offer and came up with a deity that suits your needs and desires, probably dislikes the same things you do and all that jazz. Tell me, if someone else goes on some kind of spiritual journey and discovers a deity completey unlike yours, does that make them wrong?
At least Doc Vestibule is the only one who makes sense here.
I'm calling poe. Y'all have fun with it.
You mean Edgar Allan Poe? ha ha ha
No as in Poe's Law. Poe's Law is an axiom suggesting that it's difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between parodies of religious or other fundamentalism and its genuine proponents, since they both seem equally insane.
@huebert: right, because asserting we should live by the facts of our shared reality is equally as insane as proposing we live by belief in magic. If you don't think religion is a form of insanity, fine, just give up medicine and ipods and planes, since religion fought against the facts that brought us those things.
Religion fought against iPods?
I believe it was Nathan Poe if i'm not mistaken.
That is correct.
I'm an Atheist, but I don't subscribe to the "American Atheists" need to ridicule the faiths of others via billboard. There is no need to proselytize Atheism, people come to it on their own or not at all. The word God in the Dem platform doesn't abridge my rights. It doesn't mean the POTUS doesn't include me in his policies and decisions – it just represents the majority, which is what believers are. These American Atheists are picking all the wrong fights. When someone's rights are affected because of their Atheism, then fight. This is just sound and fury, signifying nothing.
I think the main point of the signs is to let people who aren't openly atheist know that they're not alone. For many people revealing that they are atheist is akin to coming out of the closet as gay. Much of the time they face anger, backlash, intolerance and misunderstanding from their own families, not to mention the majority of society in America. It's nice to know that somebody stands with you even though it feels like the whole world hates you.
it's OK. We'll be vocal for you.
First off, I don't believe you're an Atheist, secondly you said ". When someone's rights are affected because of their Atheism, then fight. " So, we should disregard everyone else that is affected by decisions made by others, women, children, gays? Atheists are not selfish, in fact we are for humanity, this is why I call you out as a liar.
"Atheists are not selfish, in fact we are for humanity..."
Again, atheism is single negative statement, not a philosophy. While it's not against humanity or particular humans, it's not for them either.
And, some atheists are selfish.
Its 2012 if you think your the only atheist in America your not only an Atheist your a stupid Atheist. These Bill Boards are to attack religion nothing more nothing less,
I Never met a compassionate Atheist, They love themselves to much to give a hoot about other lovers of self!
An Atheist will jump over 3 Muslims to attack a Christian yet its the Three Muslims that will cut off you head for apostasy someday. While the Christian could care less.
@TheVocalAtheist – I don't know what to tell you. I don't exactly have an Atheist card to give you. I'm 46 and have been an Atheist since 19. If my word isn't enough for you, then I guess I'll bid you good day.
@greg – I'm going to fix this for you, because i'm not only an Atheist, I'm a grammarian.
"Its 2012 if you think your (you're) the only atheist (Atheist) in America your (you're) not only an Atheist(,) your (you're) a stupid Atheist. These Bill Boards are to attack religion(,) nothing more nothing less,
I Never (never) met a compassionate Atheist,(.) They love themselves to (too) much to give a hoot about other lovers of self!
An Atheist will jump over 3 Muslims to attack a Christian(,) yet its (it's) the Three (three) Muslims that will cut off you (your) head for apostasy someday. While the Christian could (couldn't) care less.
You're welcome. 🙂
I'll detract my post in order to try and clarify. I should have clearly stated I was speaking for myself and no one else.
I never said it was a philosophy. I probably worded the sentence improperly for my point. As an Atheist I think I am more in favor in getting involved with disarming injustice against "humans" and all living creatures rather than the statement made by Kellie for not fighting unless it was for Atheism. In essence, at least what I got out of it, she was saying live and let live which is fine but not very practical when we have a sea of intolerance for diversity and truth in our country. Someone needs to point it out and I feel I have an obligation to others to do so.
i think it was really compassionate for the atheist Kellie to help the religious nutter Greg with his grammar. She gave willingly of her time to help a poor uneducated man improve himself. Thanks Kellie
For all of those of you who keep saying "how could the entire universe possibly form out of nothing? Common sense tells me that can't happen" Well then, where did God come from?
Cue special pleading arguments.
Chaos, Hitler's beliefs were completely in keeping with the society and christianity in Germany in his lifetime. The belief that the Jews killed Christ was a common one in the early 20th century. And in Germany, anti-jewish sentiment within Christianity can be traced back to Martin Luther.
All you are doing is showing your total lack of historical knowledge.
The Universe is in the physical realm God is in the Spiritual realm, Two diffrent places, Diffrent rules apply But your gonna have to ask God where he came from because all a believer can do is speculate same as the scientist who speculate on the beginning of the universe.
To all Atheist read this since you all want facts all the time, here is some for you.
And Hitler was a Christian. What is your point?
Wow what a moronic article. Misrepresentation, misinformation, equivocation fallacies, and outright lies. Chaos, I hope your proud of yourself, you have ascribed to this pile of crap, and firmly planted your flag into the camp of lies and demonization.
He was born and raised in a Catholic family, but his view change about God, he became a non believer and after he did look what he has done.
This old crap agan? Nice try.
The difference is that those leaders, despite what the article claims, did not kill BECAUSE they were atheist. There was no rounding up of everyone who believes in god and killing them. However, religions have done the opposite of that for a long time, rounding up and killing non believers.
Hawaiiguest, what make you so mad? The truth makes you atheist mad and yet you proclaim that you hate lies. It's not lies that you hate, it's the truth that you cannot stand.
Exactly. No one rounds people up and kills them in the name of atheism.
Your version of the 'truth' is your own, chaos. Again, nice try. Done before, still lame.
Sorry, Chaos, but the tired argument of citing murders by non-Christians is rather absurd coming from a Christian - the religion that has sponsored the massacre of non-believers all through its history.
Sort of like throwing the proverbial stone in a glass house.
Irony is fun, yuk yuk!! Let's play again!
In his book Mein Kampf Hitler made numerous religious pronouncements. In its pages, historian Richard Steigmann-Gall notes, "Hitler gave no indication of being an atheist or agnostic or of believing in only a remote, rationalist divinity. Indeed, he referred continually to a providential, active deity."
Time and again we see leaders and members of religions incite aggression, fanaticism, hate, and xenophobia – even inspire and legitimate violent and bloody conflicts. – Hans Kung
In morals what begins in fear usually ends in wickedness; in religion what begins in fear usually ends in fanaticism. Fear, either as a principle or a motive, is the beginning of all evil.
Your ability, Chaos, to cite not one but two links to the same bad argument, doesn't magically cause the argument to make sense.
And atheist is good? Look at how many of you are attacking me while i am alone against you, that shows your personality real well. And you want us to believe you're good people?
Do you know anything about humanism? Do you know what survival of the fittest means in evolution? That article you linked to was full of lies and misinformation. The only truth in there was that Communist regimes killed a lot of people. Unfortunately, the article likes to equate secular and communist, just like the McCarthy era fear mongers that changed our pledge and put their god on our money. Bring something more than just "you don't like the truth", that just shows the vapid nature of your posts.
Thank goodness you weren't attacking atheists. Phew!
For a minute there I thought you were. My bad.
“It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creeds into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.”
– Robert Heinlein
Yeah yeah Hawaiiguest we all know that you all believe that we come down from monkeys and fish that came out of the waters and then walk on earth. Next you will be saying that we're coming down from crickets, good cause i will put up a band and i will cal lit Chaos and the Crickets.
Chaos: "To all Atheist read this since you all want facts all the time, here is some for you."
This sentence sounds funny. Wait a minute . . . . .
I think I smell a disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. writer!
Wow Chaos, you feel attacked? Simply wow?
This, my dear, is a public forum for debate. Now, if you raise a topic, are you not aware you will get counter-arguments??? And the only defense you give is YOU ARE BEING ATTACKED!!!
Hmmm, so instead of actually addressing any of the points I made, you build an anti-evolution straw man. Why am I not surprised by that?
All i see is a bunch of atheist people babbling their mouth as usual. Big mouth is all what atheism is all about.
There are a number of conflicting religions in the world whose beliefs are largely closed, immutable, and frozen. Their teachings are embedded in Scriptures, which are books that religious communities accept as holy and authoritative: The Christian Bible; the Jewish Torah and the Talmud; the Book of Mormon; the Muslim Qur’an and the Mathnawi of Jalaluddin Rumi (mysticism); the Bahá’í Kitáb-i-Aqdas; the Sikh Adi Granth; the Zoroastrian Avesta; the Hindu Upanishads, the Bhagavad-Gita and the Yoga-sutras of Patanjali; the Buddhist Pali canon; the Taoist Tao-te-Ching; the Confucian I Ching and the Lun-yü (Analects of Confucius); the Shinto Kojiki or Furukotofumi; etc. Revelations from these religions disagree with each other. The truth or falsity of these religions' incompatible teachings is unverifiable.
While the authority of a particular Scripture is considered total within the respective community of faith, it is largely disregarded outside that community. One exception is Islam: Muslims accept the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures as holy texts. However, they believe that those texts have been seriously altered over time so that the original message has been seriously distorted.
A text that is sacred for one religion may well be offensive to members of other religions, and even become a cause of intolerance. If somebody believes his particular religion to be the only true one, she/he blinds himself to the truth found in the others and also commits an act of spiritual chauvinism.
Only religion can justify the destruction of human life sanctimoniously. It is a serious mistake to downplay the problem of religious violence in 'sacred' texts. The violence-of-God tradition in the Hebrew Scriptures, the Christian New Testament, and the Qur’an must be understood and challenged if we are to have any realistic hope of building a peaceful and tolerant world. Change, of course, is profoundly difficult for those who believe in God's inspiration of the authors, and the inerrancy of the entire text.
Go away with your atheism view, we don't need you.
So now generalizations and ad hominems. Just wondering, but are you going to get to a point where you'll actually address points brought against your articles?
Chaos/Brony dude still lacks any form of creativity.
This is Atheism in all it's Glory lol.
Samuel 15:3: "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "
Moses's call to kill witches, in Exodus 22:18: "Do not allow a sorceress to live."
Psalm 137, which celebrates this terrible revenge: "Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
"All i see is a bunch of atheist people babbling their mouth as usual. Big mouth is all what atheism is all about."
Luckily televangelists, the Pope, evangelical preachers, evangelical politicians, and Christian believers are all quiet as a mouse. Or are they allowed to continue spewing their beliefs 24/7, but atheists must sit quietly, and listen politely to their drivel?
That used to be the case, but not any longer. Now we're allowed to speak as well. Believe me, we're just getting started, so fasten your seat belt.
Do all Atheist believe that we all created ourselves? Is that why we're all here?
Chaos: "All i see is a bunch of atheist people babbling their mouth as usual. Big mouth is all what atheism is all about."
Confirmation received – it must in fact be the
disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. writer.
Poor Chaos has no substance to his posts.
Who or what created the universe, you will say it's the Big Bang, then who or what created the Big Bang, you will say it's something or someone, then i must ask you who or what created that something or that someone?
@Huebert Hitler was a Christian, you say? He didn't exterminate people as a Christian. He was Social Darwinist. He busied himself disposing of human "mongrels" that were "unfit" to survive. You atheists love to do body counts. Please read something about the twentieth century. It was the bloodiest and most godless century of all time. It showed what man will do with science when man himself becomes his only god.
My question was simple,, why aren't any of you atheist answer my question?
"Do all Atheist believe that we all created ourselves? Is that why we're all here?"
Have we changed the subject now? We're in this thread because you posted a claim that atheists are murderers. I'm not a murderer, even though I don't believe in god. Do I get to stop defending my honor now? Are you done?
I guest there is none of you atheist people who can directly answer my question about the universe.
My argument is that neither theism nor atheism determine a person's morality. Their are moral and amoral atheist, just like their are moral and amoral theist.
We don't know if the universe was "created" or not (since the word created automatically implies a creator, which I'm sure was completely unintentional on your part, and not at all a dishonest presuppositional argument).
We don't know who or what created the universe, or whether a "who or what" created the universe, or why.
The only difference between creationists and atheists, on that point, is that creationists have made up an answer, and have stopped looking, whereas atheists are perfectly okay with waiting until we actually have an answer that can be supported by evidence.
Every atheist that i've know wouldn't answer this question. You atheist always says that you hate living a lie and yet you are afraid of the truth.
Every atheist that i've know wouldn't answer this question. You atheist always says that you hate living a lie and yet you are afraid of the truth.
*yawning at troll*
No, we are here bcoz a super-confused God created us!
BTW, your magic book is evidence enough of his confusion.
1. God is satisfied with his works
God is dissatisfied with his works.
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
3. God dwells in light
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
God is never tired and never rests
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
20. God cannot lie
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
27. Killing commanded
28. The blood-shedder must die
The blood-shedder must not die
29. The making of images forbidden
The making of images commanded
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
32. Anger approved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
33. Good works to be seen of men
Good works not to be seen of men
34. Judging of others forbidden
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
38. Importunity in prayer commended
Importunity in prayer condemned
39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14
40. Circu.mcision insti.tuted
41. The Sabbath insti.tuted
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
42. The Sabbath inst.ituted because God rested on the seventh day
The Sabbath inst.ituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
44. Baptism commanded
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
49. Adul.tery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
51. A man may marry his brother's widow
A man may not marry his brother's widow
52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
57. There is an unpardonable s.in
There is not unpardonable s.in
Presupposing creation is an unjustified position. Perhaps if you weren't a dishonest douche, you'd actually get answers from more people.
"are perfectly okay with waiting until we actually have an answer that can be supported by evidence."
BINGO...and agnostics as well. Life is too short to sweat such questions for some.
When every single atheist found the answer to this question it will be like a brick hitting you in the face. Until then have a great atheist weekend lol
Not bothering to discuss this with you because any disagreeing with your script is considered an "attack".
("Look at how many of you are attacking me")
Not bothering to discuss this with you because any disagreeing with your script is considered by you to be an "attack".
("Look at how many of you are attacking me")
"Who or what created the universe, you will say it's the Big Bang, then who or what created the Big Bang, you will say it's something or someone, then i must ask you who or what created that something or that someone?"
We don't know the answer to that question, Chaos, and neither do you. However, you might note that your fabricated notion about a deity being responsible, suffers from the same problem you just raised. Who created him, and who created his creator, and so forth?
If your answer is, that he has always existed, then I'm sure you're okay with the notion that universe has always existted? Same thing. in either case, you seem happy with there being no "ultimate" creator, just as we are.
Ok, have a nice trolling weekend. Try not to lose sight of your bridge.
Until next time, i suggest that you take your pencils and papers and spend the weekend applying your science and math and try to find the right answer to my question. Again i wish you a great atheist weekend. Don't work too hard it might bust your brain if you try too hard. lol
Until next time,I suggest you take a pencil and paper and note down the points I wrote above (confused god). But that would not be enough, do open your mind too and ponder over these issues. Happy weekend.
You derisively suggest that science cannot determine the origin of the universe, without recognizing the fact that your religion has fabricated an answer, using no evidence whatsoever. You sneer at evidence. And I do not.
You have a nice weekend too. "lol"
So Chaos, do you believe in every other religion around at the moment, and all those that have passed? If not you're an atheist to those religions.
There's loads and loads of proof of evolution, no one alive (or dead) has ever seen or heard from God.
Even some of the names in the bible weren't created for 500 years after Jesus "lived" such as: Gaspar, Melchior, and Balthasar.
I guess in 1,500 years Harry Potter or Star Wars maybe religions.
Oooo thanks, Simran. I can add that conflict list to the others that I have – good to know.
Chaos: "When every single atheist found the answer to this question it will be like a brick hitting you in the face."
LOL – I see the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. writer is still at it.
lol... "we want facts all the time". that does get in the way of living a life based on magic.
The moment Jediism becomes a religion I'm joining. I REALLY want a light saber.
"Big mouth is all what atheism is all about."
You are a delusional cvnt
Sam, Stalin did it in the name of Communism, An Atheist govt who killed more people then Hitler did.
Chaos "Hitler was an Atheist, duh huh!"
Anyone with a Brain "According to Hitler, he was a God fearing Catholic."
Chaos "Yeah but his actions prove he was an atheist, no one could be that evil if they weren't"
With Brains "Sooo, what about the inquisition? Crusades? Hitler was just a modern Crusader claiming defense of Christian views and attacking the supposed murderers of his Christ.
Chaos "Nuh Uh!!"
With Brains "You are making us all more stupid for having wasted time reading your moronic post."
Chaos "Nuh Uh!! Yer stoopid! I'm rubber, your glue, anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you, nanny nanny boo boo"
With Brains "You have got to be kidding me."
Chaos "Youve got to be kidding me"
With Brains "Stop copying me"
Chaos "Stop copying me.."
"Never argue with a fool – they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."
You Chaos, are one experienced fool.
It would be nice if non-belief could at least be acknowledged instead of swept under the carpet like a dirty secret. I grew up in a non-believing family, but have heard so many horror stories about people "coming out" as atheists and the terrible ways they have been treated by family and friends. We KNOW that the Republicans hold us in contempt, but if the Dems want to really be the big tent party, then they could at least acknowledge us as equals. It doesn't mean removing God necessarily, just remembering that we don't all share in faith.
it does require removing god. First not everyone in this country who is religious subscribes to God, Second there's plenty who subscribe to no god. If we're requiring government to separate church from state, and knowing there are many who don't subscribe to said God, why in the world would you continue to push God into government situations unless you're thinking your God is #1 and want to rub it in everyone else's face? end religion now!
Thank you for pointing out how many Athiests feel. It's sad many atheists feel the need to hide from expressing their views because of threats and mistreatment from "believers". It's easier to just lie and claim to belong to a religion than to tell the truth. I'm sure there are many other Athiests out there such as our family who are hiding in plain sight and who are also good people.
Signed an Athiest in Suburban America
Threats and Mistreatment, dang Cry me a river!
If atheism is so good why is this then?
Atheism does not make a person moral. Their moral and amoral atheist, just like their are moral and amoral Christians.
If theism is so good, why are the Christians and Muslims still fighting?
If christianity is so good why are there so many more christians in prison than atheists?
OOOOH! LOGIC PWN'D!
99.8% of those in US prisons are Religious and only 85% of the population believes in a God or spirit.
Meaning that those that don't believe in a God or spirit, who make up 15% of US population, only make up 0.2% of the jail population. Says a lot for the fact that atheists are generally more moral people!
So many errors on the website, it's hard to know where to start.
'religion is the source of all evil in the world' – no, no self respecting atheist not seeking to get a rise out of people would make this claim.
Agnostic != atheist, unless you think that Mother Theresa was an atheist.
Pol Pot was an atheist? Really? Proof anyone?
Lies lies lies, topped with a healthy dose of total ignorance for good measure. I thought most religions frowned on lying?
Christians are no different then Atheists there just forgiven, its the only difference.
I was reading comments on here, and i noticed atheist people says they don't feel left out, why is the 31+ pages full of atheist people commenting then?
What exactly is your point?
oh sweet, sweet irony. combining your name with your question is sublime.
Atheism is hinduism, absurdity of hindu's pagans, Atheism is domain of hindu ignorant animals not of huam in their hindu Judaism filthy self center ism, every hindu Atheist filthy self centered belong not among humanity but with their own kind in a PIG, self centered farm, for more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/
Take two Valiums and call me in the morning. You may want to consider staying away from sharp objects as well.
HEY HOW IS YOUR MOM? SHE COULDN'T WALK YET WHEN I LEFT LAST NIGHT...SORRY ABOUT THAT I HOPE SHE COULD STILL MAKE YOU BREAKFAST
@HINDU, THANKS FOR ASKING. I SAW A BLOOD SOAKED TOWEL IN BATHROOM THIS MORNING. SHE MUST HAVE ROUGH NIGHT. FOR MY MAMA'S SAKE PUT VASELINE ON YOUR LIBI.DO NEXT TIME, DON'T GET TOO CHEAP, YOU BAS.TARD.