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 A voice vote to change the DNC party platform turned to chaos Wednesday night.
September 6th, 2012
03:24 PM ET
Conventions leave atheists asking: What political party represents me?By Dan Merica, CNN Washington (CNN) – This convention season has not been good for atheists. The word "God" was reinserted in the Democratic platform after it had been removed. A plan to raise atheist billboards in the convention cities was stymied by opponents. And though there were preachers and rabbis and other religious leaders opening and closing each day of each convention, there wasn’t an avowed atheist talking up unbelief on either convention’s speaking list. The political lockout has left many nonbelievers asking, “What political party represents me?” “We are deeply saddened by the exclusion of a large number of Americans by both parties,” said Teresa MacBain, a spokeswoman for the group American Atheists, in an interview on Thursday. “It amazes me that in modern-day America, so much prejudice still exists.” After word spread Wednesday that Democrats left God out of their platform, atheists rejoiced. “Truly amazing news,” wrote Loren Miller on Atheist Nexus, a popular atheist blog. “The Republicans remain in the firm grasp of right-wing Christian religiosity, and I really don't know what it's going to take to free them from it.” But the convention committee immediately received huge pressure get God back in the platform. Even President Obama, according to CNN reporting, said, “Why on earth would that have been taken out?” when he first heard of the omission. In an awkward session that required three voice votes on the convention floor, the Democrats opted to add “God” back to the platform. For atheists, the Democrats were seen to be taking away a hard-fought victory. “We had 24 hours of joy as we felt (that) finally our government values all people,” said MacBain. “But that was short-lived. The vote last night angered many atheists and left them feeling excluded once again.” Online, atheist websites and Facebook pages went from upbeat to downcast as news spread of the platform revision. “Obama was the first president to acknowledge non believers,” Mark Musante wrote on the American Atheists’ Facebook page. “I wish he would stick to his guns.” Musante was referring to Obama’s 2009 inauguration speech, when the president said, “We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers.” Beverly Sitherwood, on the Friendly Atheist blog Facebook page, accused the Democrats of “Pandering for power.” Some atheist leaders used the platform defeat as a rallying call. “I guess a tiny step was too much to ask for,” David Silverman, president of the American Atheists, told CNN. “This was a clear message to the 16% of the voting population - we don’t count. Well, guess what, Dems - we do. And we vote.” Silverman says that 16% of the voting public identify as nonbelievers. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 12% of the electorate in 2008 was made up of people with no religious affiliation, though experts say the number of avowed atheists is much smaller. While acknowledging atheists, Obama has given platforms to high-profile religious leaders, including Rick Warren, a megachurch pastor who prayed at his inauguration, and Catholic Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who is giving the final prayer of the convention on Thursday night. American Atheists’ plans to raise billboards ridiculing the presidential candidates’ faith ended in failure. After the group put up billboards in Charlotte, North Carolina, the site of the Democratic National Convention, last month, it quickly removed them due to “physical threats to not only our staff, but the billboard company as well.” American Atheists had also planned on a billboard in Tampa, Florida, to coincide with the Republican National Convention there. But American Atheists said that all the billboard companies in Tampa rejected a sign taking aim at GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith. Perhaps because of the Republican Party’s ties to conservative Christianity, atheists tend to be Democrats. According to a 2012 Pew study, 71% of Americans who identified as atheist were Democrats. “The Republicans who spoke at the RNC seemed more like televangelists than politicians,” MacBain said. “The message was clear from the RNC: Get God, or get out.” The Republican’s 2012 platform mentions God 12 times, many of which describe the “God-given” rights that the Republican Party says are inherent to the American idea. Though most atheist groups claim that there are closeted atheists serving as representatives and senators, only one has come out as such. In September 2007, Rep. Pete Stark, Democrat of California, affirmed his atheism in a speech at the Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard University. soundoff (3,922 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I don't bother letting people know that I am an athiest because If I say I believe there is no god, they say "so you can't know that." But they know there is a god. So now, I tell them there is a god but I refuse to worship. I also tell them that I am immoral, that pleasure is the measure of all things and I could care less if I am a good person or not. Now they believe me.
Pat that made me laugh. I'm a Christian by hey funny is funny.
Could care less, or couldn't care less?
You guys crack me up – calm down.
It was rather sad watching the Democrats so desperate to appease the liars in the GOP amend their platform. It was even sadder to watch them try to ignore half of the people there when they bullrushed through the amendment on such a pathetic "voice vote". Christians, you can't agree on what a "real" Christian believes. EAch of you have made up your own religion. Soon, those of us who don't believe in your mythical nonsense will be larger than your various sects that hate each other so much that they would make up a "hell" to send them too and larger than those other religions that you revile. Maybe then we can stop having politics based on whose imaginary friend is the "best".
You are a smelly niqqer.
What Athiests should be more concerned about is that they will have no one to represent them when they stand before the bar of God's justice one second after their death, because they trampled the Son of God underfoot. And all of their rhethoric, and all of their political power will not help them before an Almighty God who, according to His word, is furious with the wicked every day. And guess what God puts at the top of His list of wickedness. That's right, unbelief. When they die they will find out who the boss really is, and their eternity is going to be one of misery and torment in a place of fire where there will be constant weaping and knashing of teeth for ever and ever.
Asserting those things don't make it true. Atheists don't believe that nonsense, so why should we give a shit what some moron on a forum, some book of genocide, or some preacher says?
What Christians should be more concerned about is that they will have no one to represent them when they stand before the bar of MY justice one second after their death, because they trampled my Son Hercules name underfoot.
No, What Christians should be more concerned about is that they will have no one to represent them when they stand before the bar of MY justice one second after their death, because they trampled my Son Thor's name underfoot.
One of the earlier presidents of Harvard Law School said that there is more evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ than for any other event in history, even more than the evidence that proves that George Washington actually existed. And that is historical fact. If you deny that you're problem isn't intellectual but moral. In the words of Christ, "men supress the truth in unbelief because their deeds are evil." So you see, Christianity is not nonsense. Rather, your denail of it is nonsense.
No, What Christians should be more concerned about is that they will have no one to represent them when they stand before the bar of MY justice one second after their death, because they trampled my Son Marduk name underfoot.
Hi Robert,
Let me ask you a question. Do you believe what you do because you chose to, or do you believe because of the things you have experienced in your life?
I, for one, wanted to continue to believe, but everything I experienced, everything I witnessed, everything inside of me took the choice from me. I had to accept that I no longer believed what I once did.
Now, if, as you state, your god is most furious for this, for this failure to believe...a thing which was not my choosing, is it not rather like saying that he is furious that I have green eyes or short legs? These things are also beyond my control, not of my choosing.
Don't get me wrong, I am happy with my progress, and I love the person I have become. I'm just curious how exactly you resolve that bit of theology.
"What Athiests should be more concerned about is that they will have no one to represent them when they stand before the bar of God's justice one second after their death" I read your book, sonny, and it says you will die and lie in your grave until the end of time and the death of the last man, and THEN God will wake you up and put you on trial. Where do you get this 'one-second' thing anyway? And why would I be concern about my lack of representation before an imaginary guy anyway? Should I worry that no one will stand up to Mickey Mouse in the afterlife, or a Teletubbie? "Atheism" means a disbelief in God, not intense fear of one.
Your god Robbie, if he exists, is an evil c.unt whose main hobbies seem to be genocide and infanticide. I'll gladly stand against him every day.
Wow, Robert. I'm shaking in my fucking boots. You really got biblewashed, didn't you?
And how many times have you ever heard of anyone rising from the dead. The "Zuse guy" is just a scoffer who is supressing the truth in unbelief and he's taking a nonsensical position to his own peril. I for one, do not want to face the creator of the universe, knowing that I have offended him, without the forgiveness of sin. But as for you (to use the common day vernicular) it's your a_s_s.
Bible Clown
Robbie does what most Christians do, ignore the Old Testament when it suits their needs and then suddenly remember it when they want to oppress gays.
No, What Christians should be more concerned about is that they will have no one to represent them when they stand before the bar of MY justice one second after their death, because they trampled my Son Quetzalcoatl
name underfoot.
Hi Robert,
Why would I want to spend an eternity with a god who created me without an honest belief in its existence and then was so easily and childishly offended as to send me to an eternal punishment for being true to my nature?
What amazes me is how you guys think that you can intimidate and scoff the truth away. Do you know how it is when you're a kid and a bully picks on you with bold courage... until your giant friend sees whats going on and then comes over to save your neck. Well, if you're scoffing and intimidating you are that bully. And when the Lord Christ returns, it will be like that giant friend only multiplied by a few million times. Think about it. Go ahead and scoff... but think about the price that you will in fact pay if you are wrong. I am just a witness telling you of what's been taught for 2,000 years. I am not trying to hurt you or put you under the yoke of some oppressive religion like Islam. You can have forgiveness if you're man enough to admit that you're a sinner and that Jesus Christ is better than you because he never sinned... and you bow your knee to him... or you can have your butt kicked for eternity.
You think God is childishly offended? Boy are you blind to your shortcomings. I would hate to be your wife. And you're not going to have a choice of having to deal with him as you seem to think. Go ahead and scoff. You've been warned. Judgement will come to all of us and you're not ready.
Blah, blah, blah, blah....
Shouldn't you be out feeding the homeless or something?
Oh please, sign me up to worship your whiny, violent, agressive, abusive, rude, and vengeful god. He sounds like a barrel of laughs.
Robert,
You never heard of other dead/resurrected gods?
"A dying god, also known as a dying-and-rising or resurrection deity, is a god who dies and is resurrected or reborn, in either a literal or symbolic sense. Jung proposed that the myths of the pagan gods who symbolically died and resurrected foreshadowed Christ's literal/physical death and resurrection. Male examples include the ancient Near Eastern and Greek deities Baal, Melqart, Adonis,Eshmun, Attis , Tammuz, Asclepius, Orpheus, as well as Ra the Sun god with its fusion with Osiris/Orion, Jesus, Zalmoxis, Dionysus and Odin.
Female examples are Inanna, also known as Ishtar, whose cult dates to 4000 BCE, and Persephone, the central figure of the Eleusinian Mysteries, whose cult may date to 1700 BCE as the unnamed goddess worshiped in Crete." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
Robert: You just don't get it!! You can't prove with any substantial evidence outside of your buybull that your god exists and until we see that evidence, we simply see no reason to believe in it. You have it wrong when you say we are afraid of the truth...the buybull is not the truth and has in fact been debunked numerous times over...there are so many contradictions within it and so much chaos that it makes Grimms Fairy Tales in its original version seem mild.
"I contend we are both Atheists, I just believe in one fewer gods than you do...when you understand why you dismiss all other gods, you'll understand why I dismiss yours."
No-one is born with a belief...it is something that is taught to them. To teach a child that they will go to hell for being disobedient is child abuse.
Seriously, Robert, how do you expect that people would be able to fear retaliation from a being in which they do not believe? Is your bible shoved so far up your rectum that it has cut off blood flow to your brain?
My point is Robert, that you have ZERO evidence supporting your specific God theory, so any God theory with the same amount of proof is just as valid.
"I for one, do not want to face the creator of the universe, knowing that I have offended him"
Good. Get back on your knees like a good little slaveboy
"What amazes me is how you guys think that you can intimidate and scoff the truth away"
What amazes me is the subservient cvnts like you think you possess "the truth"
It's child abuse. Wonderful.
Now you want to outlaw teaching kids about God probably.
Atheists- narcissistic people that cannot stand that others don't think like they do.
"Atheists- narcissistic people that cannot stand that others don't think like they do."
I think you are confusing atheists with Evangelicals
If a non-believing parent were to use the threat of eternal punishment on their child, they'd be accused of being abusive but when christards do it via the threat of hell, it somehow becomes okay. Can't stop you from polluting the innocent minds of children...however why you would choose to be dishonest with a child is beyond any rational thinking.
Please, this is a non-issue. I'm a lifelong athiest and I couldn't care less that that the two main political parties referenced God in their conventions. You can't get elected U.S. President without professing Christianity, so what else is new.
Can we move on to Mittens' tax returns now?
"These are not the taxes you are looking for...move along..."
I agree. We should look at Mitten's tax return... and while we're at it, we need to take a closer look at Obama's so-called birth certification and his college transcripts. We should do a thorough check on all applicants for the Presidency. Woa.. what's that? You want to look at Mitten's records but you don't want to look at Obama? But whhhhyyyy?????? Could that be a Democrat double standard of ignoring the law when it suits their purposes but sticking it to their opponents butt whenever it suits them? That sounds an awful lot to me like the old Soviet morality of "the ends justifies the means."
Shiit, Robert. Get over the birth issue. His birth notice was published in two newspapers in Hawaii when he was born. Are you saying someone broke into the newspapers' archives and somehow forged these notices? It's time to move on. However I do agree about Mitty's tax returns. Sure looks like he's hiding something, doesn't it?
@Robert,
No, it's not a double standard.
The birth docu.ments, both of them, have been verified by the State of Hawaii. It's done.
I don't see how the College transcripts matter.
Romney is within his rights to not produce his Tax returns. I think it will hurt him in the election, but that's his choice.
@Robert
Are you seriously going into the birther issue? The certificates are real, get over it.
We get it, you hate us. Just like the article says. Our freedom alarms you and you want it curtailed by laws; we get that, too. What we don't get is why you think you are getting brownie points with the old sky fairy by hating us, killing us, burning our houses, flying planes into our buildings, and lying about what we believe.
Right now, the last thing on any politicians mind are atheists. They, themselves, may have some misunderstanding to what an atheists really represents. And some will not acknowledge a godless people. Just saying...
Most politicians, no matter what they claim, are realists. A realist is about the same as an atheist in practice; neither expects a miracle to save them.
*--*
---–>
B"H
JERUSALEM: ISRAEL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947by3X6_RU
hinduism, criminality of a hindu Jew, terrorist self centered, expect nothing better from a hindu Jew, terrorist self centered but his hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, secularism, as from a pig, self centered, secular. To learn hinduism, corruption of truth absolute by hindu's, denires of truth absolute, please visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/ and click on word Choice to open file.
....
-----------–
B"H
JERUSALEM: ISRAEL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947by3X6_RU
Ummm. . . .. . Given that there is a majority of folks who believe in God, I think any politician who drops that is committing career suicide. America has become more "progressive," but not that far. It's amazing the wedge issues coming out right now to scare people.
Here are some likely realities: (1) Republicans won't touch Roe V Wade - too touchy and lower priority than economy to them, (2) They aren't changing religious views any time soon - heck, even Obama had to prove himself in the beginning, (3) Things truly have not gotten better - and for what the President really owns - managing the American Peoples' expectations - he's done a poor job. Sure, the problem was huge, but he oversold himself and is not doing a good job getting in front of expectations.
Believer or not, you should be insulted by the pure politics here.
The majority of 'atheists' are actually anti-Christians, not simply atheists.
I'd imagine that most are anti-religion in general, it's just Christianity gets the most attention here for obvious reasons.
I'm an Atheist and i could care less what you believe, I may disagree with you but it's your choice to make. We may find religion is not our cup of tea or just can't believe in it but i do not condemn anyone who does. To each there own. Most atheist i know feel the same. That said the minute you try to push your ideals into law, then we have a problem.
"The majority of 'atheists' are actually anti-Christians, not simply atheists." So YOU say. What some 'baby daddy' believes has no bearing on reality, but we appreciate your spontaneous outpouring of Christian hatred.
Oh, you want that in 'little words?' You hate me six times more than I could ever hate you, because you believe in God.
As an American atheist, my arguments are indeed often directed at Christians, because they are the group trying to influence the government of my country, and tear down the wall of secularism that has made this country so strong, and so free, for so long.
So what? What's your point?
@Travis: I am also an atheist, but I find it necessary to be concerned with what others believe. "Let them believe what they want" must apply to those who shout that the world is only 6000 years old, and also those who believe their god wants them to fly planes into buildings. If you accept that any belief without evidencial support is valid, you must accept all beliefs equally.
What Travis said. He hit the nail on its athiestic head.
"The majority of 'atheists' are actually anti-Christians, not simply atheists."
Wrong. Atheists are:
Anti-ignorance
Anti-makesh.itup
Anti-childabuseindoctrination
Anti-theocracy
Anti-ped.oph.ilepriest
Anti-religiousconformist
It just so happens that Christianity embraces most of the things atheists are against...
Atheism= the rejection of belief in deities, nothing else.
daddy: on what basis do you make this claim?
Neither party openly supported the small percentage of atheists in this country? A little confused by the anger at this. Is the point that WHICHEVER side had showed support would have gotten the atheist vote? Really? If the Repubs had played the political gain and acknowledged them – even with everything else that the Repubs stand for – the votes of most atheists would have gone that way? Not likely. In fact, I bet the only thing a Repub acknowledgement would have brought out was screams of "hypocrit" or "liar".
While I can appreciate wanting to have a voice that's heard, it'd be nice if they were honest with their statements. I can't think of one person who defines their political allegiance with one cause. Find other areas of either side you agree with and vote accordingly. OR, pick the party (do we really vote for candidates any more?) you think can get something done in DC.
No doubt, very soon we will have our first professed atheist congressman. Shortly there after we will read about this atheist congressman found on his knees in a men's restroom praying to his god. Really, what will have changed?
We do have an atheist congressman. And, to my knowledge, Pete Stark has not yet been caught praying.
Pete Stark (D-CA 13th District) has been an able & productive U.S. congressman for nearly 20 years, Carlos.
"
No doubt, very soon we will have our first professed atheist congressman. Shortly there after we will read about this atheist congressman found on his knees in a men's restroom praying to his god. Really, what will have changed?"
This makes NO sense at all. Just looking at the statistics, we know that there have been atheists in Congress, perhaps numerous ones. There is NO god, and the argument will eventually die out.
You'd better believe that there are more congressmen than Stark that are atheists, he's just the only one with the balls to be open about it.
How do you separate the ones who don't believe from the ones who just act as if they don't?
@ bill
What possible motivation would someone have to fake being an atheist. Being ostracized for no reason isn't good politics.
@bill: "How do you separate the ones who don't believe from the ones who just act as if they don't?"
here is an even better question; "how do you seperate the ones who DO believe from those that just ACT like they believe?"
i mean seriously; anyone you sit beside in church could be there strictly because they fear eternal torment as opposed to TRULY believeing in your religious BS.
Atheist Steve
There are those who know their sin is offensive to a Holy God so they hide behind atheism. Some of the most vocal atheists on this site live lives that are offensive to a Holy God. They must reject the God of the Bible and the Bible because it condemns their hidden or open sin. It is not that they do not believe in God as even Satan believes in God.
Much better to say I set my own morals than to acknowledge their lives violate the time tested morals set before man by God.
Sorry fred but your reasoning doesn't wash.
Atheists don't believe in God, Satan, sin or the Bible. If someone did actually believe in any of that, even a little bit, and felt that they didn't or couldn't live up to the expectations of that faith, claiming to be an atheist still makes no sense. More likely they would claim to be extremely pious theists to cover up their discressions. They would lie to make themselves look better...not worse.
Your idea of what many atheists believe is grossly uninformed.
" Some of the most vocal atheists on this site live lives that are offensive to a Holy God. "
You are a lying sack of spit, my friend. I work harder than God and probably do more good in a day than He does. I can't imagine a deity who'd find me and my life offensive, unless it was BAAL or the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man.
@fred
I wonder if you would dare say that to people in person? You'd probably get your ass beat for such a stupid and condescending pile of garbage. Then again, the only thing you understand is force, as evidenced by your worship of the ultimate might makes right "god".
Sorry, fred. Your argument fails. We don't believe there is a god to begin with. So we're not hiding or covering up anything. This simple concept seems to totally escape you.
Atheist Steve
Looking simply at Christians there are Christians that openly judge others yet the Bible condemns that. They hide behind the delusion that their sin is not as offensive to God as the one they condemn. How is it that atheist are not subject to the same delusions? Denial effects both Christians and atheists in the same way such that neither is aware of what their actual position is verses their perceived position.
Unless we define an atheist as a person not subject to self delusion that does not believe in gods then both atheist and believers can fall into the trap of denial.
I have counseled some gay believers that gave up on God because God would not make them gay and then call it sin. Who am I to say they really are or are not atheist as all I know they rejected God and gods because of their lifestyle (beliefs) could not be reconciled with what was written.
hawaiiguest
“Then again, the only thing you understand is force, as evidenced by your worship of the ultimate might makes right "god".”
=>no, God does not use ultimate might as Jesus said my Kingdom is not of this world otherwise my Father would send an army of angels against you. Based on the what we observe belief is a free choice. God has chosen not to string you up on a rack until you believe and to the contrary Christ was crucified to free your soul.
@fred
zzzZZZzzz
Oh are you done already? Usually you go on a bigger tangent. I don't really care how you want to do your spin this time fred. The fact remains that your own Big Book of Multiple Choice can support either position, so it's fairly useless.
Athy
I did not wish to imply atheists were immoral or anything of the like. No two people Christian or atheists have the same disposition. Based on various factors some people are predisposed to believe or not believe. Perhaps I was projecting from my own experience where I did not know there was sin in my life until I experience God. Prior to that I did not know there was a God. I was not an atheist simply oblivious to God or the thought of God.
I think you confuse atheists with "family-values" republicans, cholo
fred: on what basis do you purport to speak for god?
sam stone
I doubt I am worthy enough to speak for God so I would say I have no basis to speak for God. Looking at my above post they align with the word of God so I stand by them based on my understanding.
@fred
You seem to have a skewed and terribly limited view of what atheists are. I didn't become an atheist because I wanted to break whatever rules are laid out in the Bible. I'm an atheist because the entire idea of a personal God is unbelievable. In exactly the same way that I used to believe that Santa Claus was real and then figured out that the things he is supposed to do are impossible. Flying reindeer, fat man entering and exiting by the chimney, covering very household in just one night, endless capacity gift bag...etc. all complete fantasy.
So too are the stories told in the Bible.
Adam created before womankind(did he have nipples..or sex organs before
Eve was created? That would require some explaining and if not why wasn't that mentioned? Would seem to be an important development from Adam's point of view doncha think?)
Cain and Abel are easy enough to explain but who would they marry to propagate the species?
A global flood...really?
Noah builds a boat to collect, house, feed and dispose of the wastes of 2 of every species of critter for 40 days and magically deposit them all back into their indigenous lands across the globe.
Moses musters up a series of plagues under the power given by God but somehow the Egyptian magicians also deal out some equally impressive feats without such help.
A virgin gives birth.
Water into wine, loaves and fishes, walking on water and finally tortured and crucified until dead. But wait...3 days later a corpse comes back to life. Zombie Jesus lives.
But still there is more...a soul...an afterlife...heaven...hell....spirits...angels...and even a token evil genius Satan.
All unmitigated utterly impossible fantasy.
These and many other things in the Bible are simply not possible. Thus the remainder is equally suspect. Of course you will say that your God is entirely capable of doing all these things but that's just saying that the magic doer is magic. Not a compelling argument and completely circular. Since absolutely nothing like those awesome and spectacular miracles have ever been documented outside the ancient stories in the Bible they can only be explained as just that. Mere stories....nothing more. I personally get more substance out of a good Larry Niven, Arthur C. Clarke or Julian May novel myself when I want fiction.
Which is very different from what we find ultra-conservative congressmen doing on their knees in a men's restroom...
I hope this is a wake up call for the president. He's supporting gay rights and they dont think he's doing enough and now the athiest are trying to remove God from platform Geez. That would mean he shoulnd't make reference to God in his speeches wow
What does atheism have to do with gay rights?
@rational libertarian-thats easy,both parties are against religion and the word of God
@ 55 – Why should religion matter at all here? We are not a theocracy. And the pesky Article VI, Section 3, of the constîtution says that no religious test can be used for any office. Additionally, Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli states that the US is in no sense, a Christian nation.
Why is there this bizare need to see who can "out Jesus" each other?
Being against the word of god is akin to being against the word of Lex Luther.
Kind of difficult to believe an atheist when atheists don't believe in anything themselves.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Kind of difficult to believe a believer, since they believe in fairy tales and a bearded man in the sky...
Wrong, my bed-wetting friend. We believe in ourselves and our ability to think and act fairly, justly, and without malice while not being burdened by religion and its false teachings.
Peteyroo, you speak a little broadly using the imperial "we". My understanding from many atheists is that there is no central philosophy that "we" adhere to. For as many tolerant, discerning and fair-minded atheists as there are, there are just as many who are simply ignorant bigots intent on the crude hatred of religion and ignore anything of value coming from people who live in faith.
I have to agree with Bill there on the use of 'we', as I'm a spiteful, selfish and hateful person myself.
Kind of difficult to believe an atheist when atheists don't believe in anything themselves.
Believing in yourself is a powerful thing. It can enable you to overcome incredible odds and change your life.
Beyond that, unless you have met every single atheist on the planet and asked them the appropriate questions, your statement is not based on reality, but on your perception of reality.
The label "atheist" simply means a lack of belief in one thing, god. It does not confer an inability to believe anything else.
Aw, that's like saying you can't trust a believer, because they believe ANYTHING. Considering your dumb post, maybe that's not too far-fetched.
Just the rsponse I WAS LOOKING FOR,proof that atheists believe atheism is its own religion,just devoid of spiritualism.
Just the rsponse I WAS LOOKING FOR,proof that atheists believe atheism is its own religion,just devoid of spiritualism.
You do seem to jump to conclusions. How did you get from anything said in these comments to this statement?
You should give up, you are losing and badly, I might add.
"proof that atheists believe atheism is its own religion" But nobody said anything remotely like that! Are you insane or just lying?
This athiest agrees with Peteyroo.
" there are just as many who are simply ignorant bigots intent on the crude hatred of religion and ignore anything of value coming from people who live in faith" Find me an example of that outside this website or I'll show up and call you a liar in church. Outside of people who have been wronged, cheated, let down, or actually boogered by religion, very few atheists feel that way. My mom goes to church, and so what? She's old and she thinks she's going to die and go live in a heaven-house with my dad, and why would I argue with her? It's nice that she looks forward to something; my pa-in-law was a believer but he did NOT want to go when his time came.
Well I do have to admit that most of my exposure to atheists has been on this blog. I can't say I'm attracted to the philosophy based on the adherents. I think there is a representative amount of hatred portrayed here that accurately reflects what one would find in any decent sized sampling.
Here's a novel idea for all politicians regardless of party. Let your gods speak for themselves. Hold your breath until they do. After about 30 to 45 seconds the truly brain washed will be dead and the realiss will make some personal changes.
Kepp your psychoses to yourself. Base your actions on what is best for all of us.
"Let your gods speak for themselves. "
Hear! Hear!
I'd prefer setting a bunch of racehorses and let each god sponsor a horse; the one whose horse runs fastest is declared "God of the Year." Keep doing this every year until we have a big database to query, and then we'll see which one's real, or can afford the best horse . . .
Oh boooo fricking hooo!!!! The Athiests have won their war on removing God from our Schools, prayer in schools, religious artifacts from Government buildings, etc. This Country was built on Christianity!!!! You have gotten YOUR way for far too long! It's about time, we the Christians, stood up and reclaimed our God!! Like they say......MAJORITY RULES!! God bless one and all!!!!
This is a lie. School sanctioned prayer is illegal. Your little brainwashed brat can pray to your make-believe god whenever he/she wants. Stop the lies. According to your religion, you are sinning when you say such things. Hypocrite!
Also, majority rules? Go read some writings from founding fathers on how they felt about that. If majority ruled, we'd be in big trouble. You dumb people would still have African Americans drinking out of separate water fountains.
FecklessFaith, wrong! We atheists have very little sway in a fanatical religious society, such as the one we live in. Religious zealots have poisoned our society for years, making clear-headed thinking unwelcome.
I believe religion should be taught at home or in church funded schools but when atheists start whining about Christmas displays or Christmas concerts they are practicing the same intolerance and narrow mindlessness they are always accuing believers of having
Oh boooo fricking hooo!!!! The Athiests have won their war on removing God from our Schools, prayer in schools, religious artifacts from Government buildings, etc.
Actually, atheists are only partially responsible for the barrage of lawsuits, etc that have resulted in Christian monuments/plaques/etc being removed from government property. Do a little research and you will find that people of faiths other than Christianity, and even Christians of different denominations have been involved as well.
And, prayer has NOT been removed from schools. Prayer led BY the school has been declared unconsti<btuitonal, as teachers and school administrators are employees of the state, and therefor can not dictate religion of any variety. Any student at any time can pray silently or in small groups of like minded folks, provided that said prayer does not disrupt the main function of the school, nor impede the same freedom of other students of other faiths or no faith at all.
This Country was built on Christianity!!!!
No. It wasn't. This country was built on the rather radical idea that all men are created equal, with equal rights, freedoms and responsibilities, including the freedom to believe or not, to worship or not, without interference from the government.
You have gotten YOUR way for far too long!
What way is that? It has been a struggle to uphold the constitution, a struggle that will continue because we are a nation of many faiths, and we are guaranteed that freedom. The government sometimes needs reminding of that.
It's about time, we the Christians, stood up and reclaimed our God!! Like they say......MAJORITY RULES!!
Perhaps you should invest in a bit of a history course. Here in the US, our system of government is built to protect the rights of the individual so that, while the "majority" may often win the day, if the majority chooses to impinge the rights and/or freedoms of the individual, the majority is overruled.
God bless one and all!!!!
By which you appear to mean one and all who believe as you do.
May Lugh brighten your day!
@Brian Mouland
I believe religion should be taught at home or in church funded schools but when atheists start whining about Christmas displays or Christmas concerts they are practicing the same intolerance and narrow mindlessness they are always accuing believers of having
How so? Christmas is, ostensibly, a Christian holiday. When a public school or government entity endorses that holiday they are, in effect, endorsing the religion. There is nothing about intolerance or narrow mindedness there.
Of course, Christmas has become a secular holiday as well, and if you want a secular display on government property or in our schools, I have no issue with that. I expect that might get some resistance from Christians however.
You know, Faith, you reclaim your God whenever you want. He's in the Pulaski Highway Impound Facilityin Baltimore MD. Bring about $300 with you.
Oh, and about that other thing, "MAJORITY RULES". Not so. Money rules.
"when atheists start whining about Christmas displays or Christmas concerts" The same way you would if your taxes were paying for a giant lighted display of Islamic heroes or a series of anti-god billboards. Spend your own money for the religious stuff, and save my tax money for reality.
This country was NOT built on Christianity! That's been discussed many times on this blog. How in hell could have escaped it? Go ahead and "reclaim" your imaginary god if you need a crutch.
Professor Crossan must be an idoit if he thinks the deciples, Jesus's mother Mary, and his borther would let that happen. Maybe he should go back and read the story again. There are no bones on Earth.
"Professor Crossan must be an idoit " It certainly appears that SOMEONE is an idiot here.
Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/------–>>>>>>>>>>
From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.
To wit;
From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:
"Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.
Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.
Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.
The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.
Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.
The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "
"In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM
The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.
With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:
An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,
p.4
"Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."
p.168. by Ted Peters:
Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "
So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.
So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.
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