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September 13th, 2012
11:23 AM ET
My Take: A deadly link between Islamic and anti-Islamic extremists
By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN What should we make of the attacks on the U.S. consulates in Egypt, Libya and Yemen, and the deaths of four Americans, including U.S. ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens? It depends on who you mean by “we.” From the perspective of those who stormed the embassies, taking down the American flag in Egypt and replacing it with a black flag reading, “There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger,” theirs was an act of justice on behalf of the One True Faith. The Americans had it coming, according to this view, because Americans are on the wrong side in the clash of civilizations between the Judeo-Christian West and the Muslim world. And the creation of an anti-Islamic video (ironically entitled "Innocence of Muslims") by a producer thought to be an American provided the catalyst (or excuse) for the protests. Why Muslims are sensitive about portraying the Prophet Mohammed Most Americans operate by a different “we.” From our perspective, the assault was an unjust and cowardly attack on (among other things) the rule of law, the institution of diplomacy and the right of free speech. Libyan Deputy Prime Minister Mustafa Abushagur gave voice to this perspective when he said on Twitter, “I condemn these barbaric attacks in the strongest possible terms. This is an attack on America, Libya and free people everywhere.” “Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet,” Secretary of State Hillary Clinton added. “The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation.” In a commencement speech at Kenyon College in 2005, later published as "This Is Water," novelist David Foster Wallace urged student to scrutinize the “natural, basic self-centeredness” that puts “me” at the center of the world. This unconscious “default setting” fosters the sort of “blind certainty” that manifests as arrogant atheism and fundamentalism alike, Wallace said. And the point of education is to shake us out of that “default setting” - to begin to see things from the perspectives of others. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Wallace focused in his speech on the individual “I.” But his critique can be applied as well to another “default setting” (this one more cultural than natural): our tendency to understand the world from the perspective of “we." According to those who stormed the embassies, "Innocence of Muslims" was not made by an individual (whoever the shadowy "Sam Bacile" may - or may not - be). It was made by an American. Moreover, according to this groupthink, Americans as a group are responsible for the sins of individual Americans, so it makes perfect sense to strike out at embassy personnel who issued a statement before the protests turned deadly, condemning "the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims, as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions." CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Meanwhile, the shadowy figures who produced and distributed "Innocence of Muslims" are imprisoned in some groupthink of their own, which gathers all the world’s Muslims under the category of an evil Islamic empire. Their film doesn’t just depict Mohammed as a con man, philanderer, and pedophile. It portrays his followers as dupes. Unfortunately, the events of recent days have done nothing to jar the alleged producer out of this default setting. When questioned about his film in the aftermath of the Libyan and Egyptian attacks, a man identifying himself as "Sam Bacile" reportedly told the Wall Street Journal that “Islam is a cancer.” You don’t need a Kenyon college degree to see how this vicious cycle of provocation and violence is fueled, and you don’t need to be a moral relativist to see that it takes two sides to keep it running. I am an American who is justly proud of the First Amendment and its protections of freedom of speech and religion. And I believe that killing your opponents in the name of God or nation is a far greater offense than offending them with an ignorant movie. Nonetheless, the root problem on display here is in my view what Wallace denounced as “blind certainty.” Our world is not divided first and foremost along religious or national lines, into Muslims and Christians and Hindus or Israelis and Americans and Egyptians. Neither is it divided into secularists and people of faith - the New Atheists and partisans of old-time religion. The real “red line” in the modern world divides the certain from the uncertain. And in the tragic events of recent days, those who produced and distributed this hateful movie stand on the same side of this line as the killers of innocents in Libya and Egypt. Both groups are possessed by the unholy spirit of “blind certainty,” unacquainted with both the complexity and contradictions of life on Earth and the “cloud of unknowing” that hovers over every major religion. The great religious thinkers in Judaism, Christianity and Islam always knew enough to know that they did not know everything. They knew the difference between the eternal decrees of the God of Abraham and the all-too-flawed thoughts of ordinary people. They knew, in short, that they are not God, who alone is charged with creating and destroying the world and discriminating along the way between the real and the illusory. The killers in Libya have forgotten that. So have the not-so-innocent producers and distributors of "Innocence of Islam." The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of 
Drop dead, sh!thead. You are one sick Mo'fukker.
hindu's, ignorant s hind hurts, take your hindu Judaism, filthy self center ism and shove it in your God devil hind, hindu ignorant from hindered gutter of hinduism, illegality called india. For more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html
Did your girlfriend leave you for a Hindu or something?
SUCK MUHAMMED'S 8==> OR HAVE AISH'S (__!!__) but stay away from my SCREEN NAME YOU ALL KAFEERS!!!!!!!
YO ALL KAFEERS – SUCK MUHAMMED'S 8==> OR HAVE AISH'S (__!!__) but stay away from my SCREEN NAME !!!!
8=>(_|_)
Picture of "MyPictureOfMuhammad" 8=> <=8
Buttsecks?
that's my Muhammed, attaboy!!!!
The comparison & moral equivalence of filmmakers to murderers has got to stop.
The suggestion that those who produced the movie (no matter how hateful, ignorant, disgusting, etc.) are somehow comparable to murderers is offensive and must stop!!! Movie making and murder don't exist in the same stratosphere and should never be compared. You're making excuses for murderers.
Way of hindu's criminals to support one of their own hindu criminal kind, consti tution does not allow some one to provoke other's to violence and first amendment has no reference to protection of deliberate hinduism, criminality of hinduism, provocation in any form, hinduism, absurdity of protection of first amendment has no value in support of hinduism, terrorism against Muslim's and Islam. IT DOES NOT.
One of the beliefs in Islam is that no one is accountable for the mistakes or sins of another. Muslims have to live by the entire Quran not just certain ones. Yes we are to protest and protect our faith, but that doesn't translate into breaking laws and destroying an embassy or attacking embassy employees (or anyone for that matter). Protection of the faith can be accomplished by simply protesting the slanderous lies of the film and providing the truh to counter such lies and deciept. Attacking and murdering people and breaking laws is not justified in Islam, and actually works against protection of the faith because others in the world will hate you and despise you for reacting that way. You don't gain respect by acting like an animal. It is long overdue for muslims to discuss all the issues in their society, rioting and attacks may have been the only means that someone felt they can do in response to things in the past (due to dictatorships, occupation etc), but the means exist today to vent out disapproval of something in more constructive ways. I like the idea of interfaith dialogue but prior to this muslims need to have a dialogue within themselves to get back to the true essence and teachings of Islam.
One cannot, of course, live by the entire Qur'an just as one cannot live by the entire bible – it's completely contradictory. Both books simultaneously condemn murder while compelling its adherents to kill anyone who believes differently.
facepalm, thats not true. The Quran doesn't direct muslims to kill non-muslims. References in the Quran to attacking non-muslims were referring to ordering the Prophet to fight back against the attacks and persecution by the pagan arabs whom had the stated intent to kill all muslims. The Quran was reveald to the prophet in stages, when muslims were being attacked then the direction to fight the non-believers was stated to him. There is also direction that muslims should not be an aggressor and that if the other side stops fighting you, you are to stop fighting them. The Quran is meant to be taken as a reference to how life was dealt with at that time and try to apply it to what ever time the reader is in. Individual muslims or groups that attack others, in their minds, believe that they are responding to an attack or ongoing attack, i.e. occupation of palestine, iraq, etc. Are there instances in history where the initial aggressor was clearly muslim, I would'nt be surprised, but that's because they're human beings, not because they're muslim.
Wow, this is so ridiculous. If you get this worked up over ANYTHING then you need to take a chill pill and get a life. This goes to xtian fundies too.
Coptics being decieptful? What a surprise. Sounds like their conspiracy theories of Muslims kidnapping girls and making them convert and marry a Muslim. Yea its impossible that your daughter converted, ran away because she knew you wouldn't accept it, and married a Muslim. A Copt once told a coworker that most of the population in Egypt is Christian...? We googled it and what do you know, it was a lie.
It is a favorite excuse of hindu's, deniers of truth absolute to hide failure of their hindu absurd, faith. For more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html
Would all you folks on both sides of the fence quit blaming religions for the evil acts of the followers. As the writer points out, blaming an entire group for the actions of a few of its members is senseless. For athiests to blame religion is just as foolish as Christians blaming Muslims or Hindus blaming Buddhists. Any time we think our personal belief is the only way to see / do anything we miss the boat.
You have to admit that most violence is religion based.
I admit no such thing
consti tution does not allow some one to provoke other's to violence and first amendment has no reference to protection of deliberate hinduism, criminality of hinduism, provocation in any form, hinduism, absurdity of protection first amendment has no value in support of hinduism, terrorism against Muslim's and Islam. IT DOES NOT. Article speaks for it self, Judeo-Christian verses Islam, to be exact, hindu Judaism and it's off shoot Christianity, or hinduism, denial of truth absolute, pagan self center ism, secular ism, and it's off Shoot, hindu Mithra ism, denial of truth absolute savior ism, based on hinduism, racism labeled as Christianity, infidelity to truth absolute God,Allah, verses Islam truth absolute 360, Allah, foundation of existence proven by Quantum Physics and foundation of teachings of Messengers of Allah, truth absolute, Moses, Easu, (Jesus) and Mohammad peace be upon them. Or to say, hindu, denial of truth absolute Judeo-Christianity verses Truth absolute Allah, foundation of Islam or darkness verses light, hindu sanatans, pagan goons verses messengers of truth ab solute, devil verses God, truth absolute.
it is hinduism ignorance to mix water with oil, darkness with light, or devil, denier of truth absolute, make part of truth absolute. Hindu Judaism, filthy self center ism was and is never part of truth absolute, and never will be, even though hindu's ignorant s may try to make it look like by their hindu Judaism, filthy secular ism, way of denier of truth absolute to hind, fool humanity.
hinduism, criminality labeled as freedom of speech has no justification, because speech is expression of soul, desire of a person to be negative or positive. hinduism, negativity of soul, desire of a person is denial of truth absolute and intended hinduism, terrorism, invitation to just retribution in kind, To claim immunity from persecution is just an excuse to justify hinduism, criminality by soul desire pleasing hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, subject to rightful retribution in kind. Rendered by Muslim's to hindu criminals of Judeo-Christian faith. For more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html
Seriously, can anyone translate this out of crazy gibbersih, and end to English? All I can gather from it is that this guy really likes Hinduism and its followers.
You under stand it well. hindu, ignorant, your post is nothing but your hinduism, denial of truth absolute about hinduism, ignorance. For more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html
Hiduism is da bomb.
You don't speak for me so please stop it right now.
Huh?
We don't get many ignorant fundiot Hindu nutters here. I'm still waiting for an ignorant fundiot Buddhist nutter, or an ignorant fundiot Sikh nutter.
The (Western) world has progressed in the last 400 years due to a focus on individual liberty, including individual expression. That liberty has led to vastly longer lifespans, life-saving medical technologies, better standards of living, etc. The backwards countries of the world (old Soviet Union, theocratic Muslim countries), who are stuck in "groupthink", don't have the benefit of the concept of liberty. A famous Western homespun saying is "Don't get mad, don't get even, get ahead", i..e, focus any anger you have as motivation to improve your life. In many of these Muslim countries today, all they know is getting mad and getting even. How sad for them, and the world.
Women got the vote in the 50s in a western nation.
murdering and bombing in reaction to a thought or idea is murder and uncivilized. How can you even compare the making of a movie or writing of a book/screenplay/cartoon equal to murder?...muslims are wrong, you are wrong and if I was faced with a mob like those poor americans killed by these filthy animals, I would try to kill as many as possible...this barbarism on behalf of islam must be stopped....
Thought's and ideas are one to keep for himself, not to attack other's, hinduism, hog wash in favor of hinduism, criminality by design show's hinduism, absurdity of your thought. Does consti tution allow some to provoke other's to violence or does first amendment has any reference to protection of deliberate hinduism, criminality of hinduism, provocation in any form, your hinduism, absurdity has no value in support of hinduism, terrorism against Muslim's and Islam. IT DOES NOT. For more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html
The mob didn't murder or bomb, it was a group of 20.
I think that Muslims just don't want to know some facts about their so called Prohet Mohammed.
Mohammed was the only prophet that organized an army and conquered other places by force. According to historical facts he had a total of 63 war campaigns.This alone makes Mohammed a war monger. He did have several wife's according to historical facts that number is between 10 and 13. This lustful tendency is more inline with conquerers and mad man than prophets. Buddha, Jesus, never created armies and conquered other places, where not womanizers.
Muslims portray Mohammed as a peacefull man which he trult was not.
Jesus was gay.
He had ZERO woman, and much of the Gnostic writings about him imply he was into dudes.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...........
Aren't there other banned gospels that suggest he was married to Mary Magdelene
Pete
I believe that is more like "bad movies and History Channel bozomentaries"
Adam, what about the jews being told by God to fight the different tribes living in what is now Israel to establish a homeland? The US is alway claiming its wars are righteous, so did crusaders. Early muslims were being attacked by the pagans who had the stated purpose to kill all muslims, so God told the prophet to fight back. Being religious doesn't mean you have to sit there and take it. Islam recognizes the truths about the world and humanity, one of which is war happens, so instead it regulates it. It states that people shouldn't be the aggressor, but its ok to defend yourself. It also says that if the other side stops fighting you you must also stop fighting them.
Stand up for western civilization or lose it
YEEHAW!
Western civlization:
– Millions upon millions of soldiers and civlians dead through two World Wars
– Creation of the first atomic bomb
– Use of two atomic bombs on civilians
– Development of thousands upon thousands upon thousands of more nuclear weapons that make the atomic blast look like a single corn kernel being popped
– The occupation and plunder of almost the entire planet's nations during the colonial era
– The mass distribution and use of killer drugs
– Segregation and lynch mobs against an entire race
-Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton
– Largest exporters of weapons
– Overthrow of elected/popular leaders and installation of dictators
– Corporations and goverments which strong arm, bribe, and corrupt developing nations in order to steal their resources
– McDonalds
– Hypocritcal ideals of freedom and justice, which are only acted upon when it benefits them, i.e. Iraq war, but turn a blind eye when it doesn't benefit them, i.e. Rwandan genocide
– Arrogance of thinking their better than everyone else when women were only given the vote in the 50s (not long ago) and somehow now they view themselves as always having been for rights, and hate on developing nations for not having the same rights
– Degradation of women to the point of having an epidemic of teenage mothers, uncommitted fathers, and 5th graders that do it
I wonder how many demonstrators could a well-equipped squad or two of Marines manage to kill before they were over run?
Or do you think once a few go down the mob loses its motivation?
It’s been a few years since I wore a uniform, but I suspect at close range I could get several dozen myself, with just an assault rifle.
Throw in a few claymores, a burst or two from a Browning 30 cal, plus a hail of 40mm grenades and I suspect the crowd would high tail it back to Mecca after a few seconds
These facilities are sovereign US land. We have the legal right to mow them down if we like.
Perhaps repulsing them might cause them to hesitate the next time?
or perhaps a less 'deathly' approach would be if we just leave them alone, get out of there, pull off all of our army bases from around the world, stop messing with other peoples business, and then, maybe we would be better off...just a thought...
where have you been , we've been mowing people down with weapons for 60 years,in the mideast.Time for a new tactic,such as packing up our troops and suitcases of money and come home.The saying is "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and guaranteed they'll miss our money a whole lot when were gone,then TRUE PEACE TALKS will take place in this new venue.
mpouxesas
Appeasment? Isolationisim? The last time the US took that route, about 70 million died, all of Europe fell, one religion gasssed 12 million from another religion, and two nuclear weapons were used to end the war.
Jump that up to todays technology and we have a billion dead and 10 percent of the Earths surface uninhabitable for 25,000 years.
Do you have ANY idea how bad a billion middle eastern corpses will stink?
Thank God you were not in a position of responsibility
Your method of thinking is flawed. You shoot them or use claymores as you suggested and the angry masses return with their RPGs to take the whole wall down, killing the Marines from a distance. That was the reason behind the condemnation of the film ahead of time and it probably went a long way to save some lives.
The Libyan matter was a different story...it was not a response to the film but an attack that turned deadly by an al-queda (sp?) based group who saw this whole thing as an opportunity for bloodshed.
Cooler heads must prevail on the part and actions of the US. Otherwise extensive use of violence will result in the Embassy's total destruction in multiple lands.
I agree William, I too know for a fact that 4 man fire team could easily overpower a number of embassy attacker 10 times its size...even better tho is to leave, take with us or detsroy all we have built and improved in these places and seal our borders as well as our ears to their pleas for assistance when their water turns and the simply sick turn into foregone fatalities.... let them fester in their own hatred and either the world will be rid of them or the civilized will rise among their ashes ...
roger
I believe we need martyrs of our own rather than peace.
Joe800
Of course, but it gets COLD over here.
The got the oil. We ain't going anywhere 🙁
Play more with Claymores!
The United States will not be leaving the middle east any time soon.
There are still WWII era army bases in Germany (I used to be the only Canadian at the Headquarters for the United States European Command in Stuttgart) and Ja/pan.
Once the US establishes an outpost, they do not relinquish it.
Embassies are a different story – they are supposed to be houses of diplomacy.
It's a sticky situation to defend them with overwhelming force....
I dunno how familiar Americans are with the story of 2 Commando in Somalia – but the short version is this:
2 Commando were Canada's elite shock troops – Airborne Troopers trained to drop in as the tip of the spear, cause as much damage as possible in as little time as possible, reccy the lay of the land and GTFO.
The Canadian government saw fit, for some reason, the put them in a static, peace keeping role in Somalia.
Time after time, the locals tries to infiltrate the Canadian encampment and the soldiers were ordered to be nice to the folk trying to kill them and raze their base to the ground until eventually, they snapped.
One particular fellow was captured trying to get over the fence and was killed by the Commandos.
This got out to the press and the civilians at home had a fit. As a result of the media onslaught, the Canadian government disbanded the entire regiment.
All the former commandos retired or remustered to other trades – until our country found that *surprise* we needed those types of soldiers again.
2 Commando was effectively re-created as JTF2 (Joint Task Force).
" Do you have ANY idea how bad a billion middle eastern corpses will stink?"
I'm thinking a lot like Cleveland on a hot humid August night?
I really took exception to the statement "we are not divided by religious or national lines".What world does this author live in ?The world is settled into nations that the people are comfortable with while politicians and businessmen use personal greed to try and exploit nations and places not quite as business saavy .The arrogance of trying to make us a one world economy has been tried,quite unsuccessfully ,in the past by far smarter men than we have today.
I think what Dr. Prothero is saying is, "kumbaya". That usually works.
has this loon even watched the innocence of islam yet? you'd think that would be required background reading for this ridiculous article.
RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS, NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION THEY ESPOUSE, ARE THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL ON THIS PLANET!!!! THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM ONE OTHER!! THEY ALL INCITE HATRED, INTOLERANCE, SUPERIORITY OVER OTHERS, AND EVERYTHING HORRIBLE WE SUFFER AS HUMAN BEINGS!!! HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE WILL BE KILLED IN THE NAME OF A "GOD"??????? I THINK THE MAKERS OF THIS ANTI-ISLAMIC FILM SHOULD BE DROPPED INTO LIBYA AND LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEFENSES!!
Maybe we should just be concerned with America and let the entire mideast be concerned with the mideast.I still wait to hear just excactly what good we have done over there in the last 60 years.
55, Al Gore invented the internet in America and now they use it good over there.
Prothero–there is no equating these actions. While you rightfully identify the violence as worse than the movie, your suggestion that the produces are "not so innocent" belies your true feelings about the first amendment. Why not simply say what most right thinking people already know–there is NO justification for the violence. The producers are guilty of bad taste and political incorrectness–but that's it. They are not guilty of any charge that would substantiate the violence (period).
Does consti tution allow some to provoke other's to violence or does first amendment has any reference to protection of deliberate hinduism, criminality of hinduism, provocation in any form, your hinduism, absurdity has no value in support of hinduism, terrorism against Muslim's and Islam. IT DOES NOT. for more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html nd click on word Choice to open file.
Hindus can speak better English than Muslims apparently.
@Hindu...what? If you can restate your question in, let's say, English, I'd be happy to respond.
Maybe the reason they associate the US with the film maker is because the idea of government to them is different the idea of government in the US. In the US government is something that is satirized and criticized all the time, we know that government has its limitations. To them, living under dictatorial rule for all their lives makes them think that government is all powerful and all knowing. Another reason could be that they are just as human as we are and associate the actions of a few to the whole group.
Prothero up to his usual left-wing antics. Islam's critics didn't kill anyone. He forgets that fundamental difference. (Strangely, so does this Administration).
The worst thing about all of this is that the same people who think exactly like the filmmaker in this country are all Romney supporters. That should scare anyone into not voting for him!
So the worst thing is not that innocent people died, but that Romney supporters mistrust Islam. O.k., you run with that. I 'm sure it brings comfort to the families of the fallen to learn that their deaths weren't the worst thing.
Please, peddle your fear/hate mongering elsewhere.