Internet intensifies Jewish squabbles over Israel, identity
Religious Jews at Jerusalem’s Western Wall earlier this month.
September 25th, 2012
02:30 PM ET

Internet intensifies Jewish squabbles over Israel, identity

By Dave Schechter, CNN

(CNN) - Forgive those who have sinned against you. Seek forgiveness for your sins against others. Forgive yourself.

In a nutshell, that is Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, which begins at sunset Tuesday.

There are many forms of sin, to be sure.

In their sermons some rabbis will no doubt voice concern about the way American Jews talk to each other about Israel, about politics and even what it means to be Jewish, lamenting an often divisive and sometimes caustic tone.

These rabbis may suggest that on Yom Kippur some among their congregants may wish to atone, at least symbolically, for the nasty language and name calling too frequently employed in discussions that turn to argument, whether in-person or online - notably in the comments sections after articles at Israel and on social media platforms such as Twitter.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Twitter provides abundant examples of caustic exchanges. Without naming the offenders and focusing instead on the type of language used, there was the Jewish organizational leader who suggested that a politically liberal Jewish commentator might be a registered lobbyist on behalf of Nazis, while that same liberal Jewish commentator referred to an organization well-known for its attention to hate crimes and anti-Semitism as “flatulent frauds” and to a well-known Jewish academic as “dementia-struck.”

Old-fashioned, face-to-face discussion also has become problematic. “When it comes to talking about Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian situation, that heat can burn up even the most well meaning friendships, community relationships, family connections,” observed Rachel Eryn Kalish, an organizer of the San Francisco-area Year of Civil Discourse Initiative that was “designed to elevate the level of discourse in the Jewish community when discussing Israel.”

Rabbi David Wolpe of Sinai Temple in Los Angeles was asked by Rob Eshman, publisher and editor-in-chief of the Jewish Journal, why he would deliver a benediction at the Democratic National Convention earlier this month, given the polarized political climate. “I see this not as politics but as prayer,” Wolpe said. “It’s a chance to present Judaism on a national, if not international, stage. It’s a shame some see it otherwise.”

Eshman followed with a comment of his own: “Yes, a shame — but a predictable one. Hyper-partisanship has infected the Jewish community, as it has America. Too many of us have bought into the idea that our side has all the answers. But no party, like no person, is invested with perfect insight and far-seeing wisdom. Fixing Medicare? Boosting unemployment? Defanging Iran?

To quote Woody Allen, most of us don’t even know how a can opener works.”

The idea that argument is central to the Jewish experience is not new. Serious debate over the meaning of phrases within the holy books has existed almost since the beginning – and this is the year 5773 on the Jewish calendar. The old joke about “two Jews, three opinions” did not originate without some measure of truth behind it. But the most modern communications technology has brought a new intensity to disagreements.

Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

Ron Kampeas, the Washington bureau chief for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, a news service utilized by Jewish newspapers, online services and other media, offered CNN this perspective: “American Jews are eager to attach their Judaism to their broader ways of thinking - political, social mores, even what and how they eat. America's is the first society in which Jews, like other minorities, were encouraged to take pride in their difference from others.”

“It took decades for American Jews to figure it out,” he said. “But when they saw what ethnic pride did for the American Irish, the American German, the American Italian, they embraced it with a vengeance. By the 1960s, cultural refractions of Judaism through literature, movie, pop culture, song became de rigeur. And then, with the ascension of political figures like Bella Abzug, Ed Koch and Jacob Javits this was true of politics. So real differences in outlooks - from what's funny to what role government should play in out life - become enshrouded in Jewish rationales.”

And as these differences in outlook extend into discussions of politics or Israel, there is strain. “Because Jewish identity is so fraught - even as it has evolved into an outright pride, Jews are still acutely aware of the humiliations that once attached to being Jewish - these arguments are more prone to become bitter exchanges over self-definition,” Kampeas said.

That theme of a community tearing itself apart also was evident in a piece written last year in The Jewish Daily Forward by David Hazony, author of “The Ten Commandments: How Our Most Ancient Moral Text Can Renew Modern Life.”

“With so many Jewish ‘umbrella’ groups, Jewish community centers, federations and so on, it’s easy to believe that, at least on the face of things, Jewish peoplehood in America is thriving,” Hazony wrote. “Yet, something does seem to be dying in the American Jewish fire. The infighting among Jewish groups, the polarization on Israel and the willingness to demonize whole communities of fellow Jews have become so extreme that one begins to wonder what, exactly, is left of the Jewish family.”

Hazony went on to say that “the problem may be at its worst when it comes to politics. Here, American Jews are ferociously divided, with each side accusing the other of fraternizing with a perceived enemy. For Jews on the left, conservatives have joined forces with that most fearsome part of America, conservative Christians, to undermine the liberal, secular space that Jews have worked so hard to carve out for themselves as the real solution to the Jewish problem. For Jews on the right, liberals have joined forces with pro-Palestinian activists, universalists and others who threaten the Jewish state that we worked so hard to create and protect as the real solution to the Jewish problem.”

By most estimates, only 20-35% of American Jews have visited Israel, although a survey of more than 1,000 American Jews by the American Jewish Committee found that 41% said they had visited Israel. “That a majority of American Jews have never been to Israel, and that those who have are, for the most part, infrequent visitors, is an old and sad story,” the American Jewish Committee’s media director, Kenneth Bandler, wrote in The Jerusalem Post.

This could be interpreted as meaning that a significant percentage of the American Jewish community is getting hot under the collar and on their keyboards about a place that exists firmly in their hearts, without ever having been there.

Last month, author Daniel Gordis referenced the response he received to adding his name to a petition on an issue related to Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Gordis, who has written that “Fairly or not, I’m seen as slightly right of center on Israel,” did not foresee the response to his signature. What “genuinely shocked me has been the level of vitriol, blatant intellectual dishonesty, and expectations of conformity,” he wrote.

“As the Jewish world prepares to commemorate Tisha B’Av, the date of the destruction of both Temples, the second of which the Talmud claims was destroyed because of baseless hatred among Jews, I find myself despondent about the way we Jews talk to one another and what it means for our future. If the ugliness that the rabbis said led to the destruction of the Temple is now the tone we take for granted, why shouldn’t young Jews just walk away?” Gordis said.

Ambassador's killing shines light on Muslim sensitivities around Prophet Mohammed

“Comments sections are, of course, the province of those with too much time on their hands, and our culture of Web anonymity invites terrible excesses,” Gordis wrote, adding “Have we learned nothing at all about the dangers of language run amok from the horrors of Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination? Are we wholly unchastened by where we’ve been in the past as a people? Do we not believe that there should be limits on what we can and cannot say to one another?”

Scientific American recently published an article titled “Why Is Everyone on the Internet So Angry?”  in which Art Markman, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas characterized online comments as "extraordinarily aggressive, without resolving anything.”

"At the end of it you can't possibly feel like anybody heard you. Having a strong emotional experience that doesn't resolve itself in any healthy way can't be a good thing,” Markman wrote.

Among those who, depending on your viewpoint, inspire or provoke online is M.J. Rosenberg, who is active on Twitter, where, as in the writings on his website, he pulls no punches. Rosenberg’s resume ranges from working for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, widely regarded as among the most powerful advocacy organizations in Washington, to a stint as a foreign policy fellow at the Media Matters Action Network, a politically liberal organization.

Asked why American Jews have such difficulties with civil discourse over matters related to Israel, Rosenberg told CNN: “The answer is that both sides take this issue very seriously and, frankly, believe that the other is risking the survival and security of Israel and the Jewish people. I know I feel that way about the right and I know that people on the right feel that way about my side - the left. I think both sides feel that the other is jeopardizing a basic part of our selves, our Judaism and the Jewish state.

“And that produces anger and even fury,” he said. “Those on my side are particularly angry because the right tends to act as if it is speaking for all Jews. It isn't. We need to speak all the more forcefully to be heard. Additionally, they have resources we don’t have. We only have our voices.”

From what might be termed the other side of the political spectrum is this perspective from Noah Pollak, executive director of the Emergency Committee for Israel, who told CNN: “There's a reason for the old adage that one should never discuss politics or religion in polite company. These topics often lead to impoliteness, and it's no less true of Jews discussing Israel and religion as anyone else.

“I spend a lot of time in my job arguing about Israel, and the fact is (as verified by polling) that American Jews are pretty unified on a range of Israel questions – they are firmly on Israel's side in matters of war and diplomacy,” Pollak said. “However, there is a small minority of left-wing American Jews who dissent from this consensus, and they have an unfortunate tendency to invoke their Jewishness in the course of denouncing Israel, as if their religious affiliation lends some higher credibility or insight on the question of what to do about Hamas or Iran or the peace process.”

“Me, I'm fine with heated arguments,” he continued. “Jews have been arguing for thousands of years - we privilege and enjoy debate, and as far as my side is concerned, I'm pretty sure we have the winning case.”

But if everyone believes they have the winning case  ...

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Holidays • Internet • Judaism

soundoff (495 Responses)
  1. ScottCA

    The Jewish people need to disentangle their culture from their religion, having these things so intimately mixed and confused is complicating their lives.
    Religion is clearly illogical nonsense based in no evidence, but Jewish culture is far from nonsense. They should work towards an Israeli culture and abandoning the concept of Jewish. Religion and state should never be mixed or confused as being the same.

    September 17, 2012 at 12:19 am |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      Now that I can agree with... the same, for the most part, should be said about Christianity....

      September 17, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Unfortunately, if they disentangle their culture too far from their religion they may (will?) lose their claim to Israel.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:29 am |
    • ScottCA

      Their claim extends to it being given to them after WWII. That land was given to them. Those who lost the land may not like it, but that is unfortunate for them. It is Israel now and recognized as such by the global community. I don't think they need their religion to maintain their claim.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:32 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      I agree with you that Isreal is what it is now, and should continue to exist in peace, but I think the land was given to them, to a great extent, because of the myth that a nonexistent god said it was theirs. Moving away from that stance could be yet another reason for believer extremists to think they have a right to eliminate Istael. But, those that want to get rid of Istael probably don't need another reason.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:38 am |
    • ScottCA

      No gods, In that much we agree.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:01 am |
  2. Prometheus

    Abraham was the Father of the prophet Muhammad, which means any hate directed at Christianity is directed at themselves. Without Abraham....Muhammad would have never been born.

    September 16, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Islam is just like baal religion man made just remember God of Isreal does not forget

      September 16, 2012 at 11:55 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Evem could not by themselves without of Allah, they had no power of their own, but every thing by the will of truth absolute, neither they claimed any thing of their own, nor they claimed to be above any one else, rest of it is hinduism, racism to make some thing they never claimed to be, but OBEDIENT TO TRUTH ABSOLUTE, ALLAH. VISIT http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html TO LEARN MORE.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • hacham14

      Abraham was Ishmael's father, not Muhammad. Muhammad is widely believed among Muslims to be a descendant of Ishmael.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      Truthfully, IF you read the bible the way you should, without all the religious mumbo jumbo, one would come to realize that MOST of what is written there isn't possible. The times are all wrong, the science is all wrong, the HISTORY is ALL wrong. Most of the bible doesn't even sync with written history of other nations. There is no mention of Jesus, outside of the bible. NO mention of a great king David, and the idiot who wrote the Noah story was just plain, well ignorant.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:21 am |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      There have been NO writings in Egypt unearthed about a Moses, or that there were ever any Jewish people in Egypt. The pyramids were built using paid labor, NOT slaves, as once thought. The LAWS of Physics can not be broken, bent, or put on hold, and therefor, MOST of the bible's claims are nothing but "magic" claimed by men who were uneducated and simple.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:24 am |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      One final thing. IF the bible is the inerrant word of God, and you can find one error in the bible, then what do you hold on to that ALL of the bible could be, and most is, in error. Think about it... because if you say that there are no errors in the bible, we need to talk.. and YOU need to READ...

      September 17, 2012 at 12:28 am |
  3. Reality

    Judaism continues to evolve.

    To wit:

    Only for the newcomers:

    origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

    New Torah For Modern Minds

    “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses.
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

    The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

    The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

    September 16, 2012 at 11:48 pm |
  4. postedbygeo

    Jewish people were originally unemployed Egyptian workers. The Egyptian economy tanked, construction stopped and the rulers devised a story to send the unemployed to the "promised land". From that story 3 middle-eastern religions evolved.

    September 16, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER


      September 16, 2012 at 11:34 pm |
    • Jon Logic

      Unemployed workers?
      A. If you're a worker how can you be unemployed.
      B. Regardless of whether you believe in religion or not, I'm an atheist myself, archeology shows the jews were slaves in Egypt. Any economist will tell you, free labor does great things for any economy. It doesn't seem very plausible that the egyptians gave up their slaves by choice...

      September 16, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • Sheila

      Hate to tell you, but you got the timeline wrong here. Abraham had his children before the enslavement occurred at Egypt. God did free the Hebrews from the cruel taskmasters of Egypt. Egypt lost it's leader, army and a large labor force for sure. Before the cruel Egyptian leaders emerged the Hebrews were beneficial to the Egyptian economy. Oppressing and tormenting people is bad for any nation. However, this scene plays out again for all the Nations of the world, when the "man of perdition" deceives and forces people to follow him and to take the "Mark of the Beast". The only way to be free from his oppression and tyranny will be through the salvation that comes from the Lord Jesus Christ. Christians are to "Abide in the Lord Jesus Christ until he comes". This calls for patience and endurance on the part of the saints. Those who remain faithful will be called up into the air to join the Lord and will be safely placed in his sanctuary. The dead will rise first, then those who remain alive on the earth will join them. Those remaining...will see the Lord's wrath. Your gold and silver will not save you in those days from the wrath of the Lord. No man created army or weapon can defeat the Lord. Why would anyone want to any way ? Had Egypt bowed their knees to God and became a loving nation, they would have been blessed beyond measure. God is a good God and he will give love, blessings, the peace that transcends all understanding and eternal life to all who are willing to call on him and follow him.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:11 am |
    • hacham14

      Jews technically originate from Iraq as that is where Abraham is from. However, his wife and descendants are mostly from Canaanite tribes.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:11 am |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      Shelia, hate to tell YOU, but there never was an enslavement of Jews in Egypt.. NO WAY... all a myth... made up by the Jews who wrote the lovely fiction that is the Bible, same as the Noah Flood, Adam and Eve, and all the rest.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:15 am |
  5. Pnm9pnm

    Pride can be a calstly asset of that type.pnm.

    September 16, 2012 at 11:29 pm |
  6. Mennoknight

    I love Jews.
    One of the greatest tragedies in Christian history has been that many of killed Jews in the name of Jesus.

    Jesus was a Jew!

    And don't forget that the spirit of men like Haman is still alive in the land of Persia today.

    September 16, 2012 at 11:20 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      You understand the messianic kingdom,the same kingdom jesus is from

      September 16, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • Topher

      Hey, Mennoknight. How's it going?

      September 16, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Fuck! I thought Topher had his ass handed to him so many times he wisely decided to shut up...

      September 16, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • Topher

      I can't shut up yet. You haven't repented and trusted in the Savior.

      September 16, 2012 at 11:44 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Topher, you haven't been paying attention – there is no saviour, at least there is no evidence for such a character or any other god. There is deprogramming though to help people such a yourself extricate themselves from their cult.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:03 am |
    • Topher

      No evidence by your standard, maybe.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:08 am |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      @OG.. Makes your A S S Twitch doesn't he?

      September 17, 2012 at 12:17 am |
    • ScottCA

      tropher I know what you mean, Everyone should kneel down and accept Zues into their lives. Zues is all powerful and merciful when worshiped appropriately.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:21 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Sorry, he, and all believers, just makes me shake my head – the one on top pf my neck (anticipating your next retort).

      September 17, 2012 at 12:32 am |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      No son of blessed Mary was A Hebrew, dedicated to truth absolute, unlike hindu Jew's, criminal self centered, HOBO"S, secular's, deniers of truth absolute.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:35 am |
  7. jungleboo

    Dreadful line of posts here. People who cling to Race.Creed.Color are living in a false world of belief that their Race.Creed.Color gives them status. It does no such thing. You need not cling to your blood line to have a thoughtful and meaningful life, and absolutely nothing is lost if you drop the bloodline traditions like so much trash. Parading your color as if it is something special about you is just plain vapid. Forcing your creed or beliefs on others in an effort to convert them or have power over them is the height of ignorance. Look about you. Notice that most of the heartache in the world is about these three pursuits. Race.Creed.Color. Are you doing this? Really? For shame!

    September 16, 2012 at 11:04 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      What was king david and king solomon and jesus customs???????

      September 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.


      September 16, 2012 at 11:10 pm |

      You can also thank the Darwinists. Darwin married his niece to keep it in the family, just like ancient Egyptian royalty and the European royalty who were known to be bleeders. Breed, Greed, Bleed: BGBs, Good for evolution, alright.

      September 16, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
    • I wonder

      "Darwin married his niece to keep it in the family,"

      She was his cousin, but so what? Cain, Abel & Seth had to have bred either with their mother or their sisters... and Noah's kids would have no other choice either. (As the story goes, anyway).

      September 16, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
    • I wonder

      p.s. Besides, everyone knows that proper breeding techniques involve staring at certain objects to achieve the desired characteristics (like those striped goats of Jacob's and Laban's)

      September 16, 2012 at 11:40 pm |

      I Wonder, you are correct on the cousin thing. There is an observation to be made about the breeding thing, though.Toward the beginning there wasn't as much corrupted or mutated DNA floating around in the gene pool.

      September 17, 2012 at 10:56 pm |
  8. Critical Thinker

    I'm having trouble deciphering the difference between righ-wing Jews and Nazis. Both believe might makes right. Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the German Jews, trying to exterminate them. Just look at the shelling of Palestinian apartments filled with innocent Palestinian women and children.

    September 16, 2012 at 11:03 pm |
    • slapshotbob

      What are you on drugs? Israel treats the palestinians better than the palestinians treat the jews. The palestinians suicide bomb entire crowds of civilians on purpose. They also fire rockets indescriminately at towns. Israel at least trys to avoid killing civilians when reasonable. If the palestinians were stronger than the Israelis, they would wipe them all out in a day. And for your information, the Israelis treat the Israeli-Arabs who are citizens of the country quite well. By comparison, Saudi Arabia does not even allow jews to enter the country!

      Additionally, the only reason Israel even controls "palestinian" territory is that the arabs tried multiple times to wipe Israel out, but lost the war and therefore lost territory. When the arabs really agree to live in peace with Israel and recognize it as a valid country, the Israelis will talk peace.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:03 am |
    • Jon Logic

      I don't find this thinking to be very critical. Additionally, the arguments are false. Tens of thousands of rockets have been fired by the palestinian's into populated areas of Israel with no particular target. They are just fired towards populated cities. Israel, on the other hand, attempts to attack those firing the rockets or causing violence and accidentally/possibly unavoidably kills the innocent that Hamas hides behind.
      Additionally, the Nazis were actively engaged in rounding up Jews and killing them via firing squads and gas chambers with absolutely zero violence or attacks of any kind by the Jews. I'm not trying to take sides here and there is an argument to be made on both sides, for the safety of the Israeli's and their rights versus the palestinian rights and welfare. However, to call yourself a critical thinker and spout nonsense that can be disproven by a two minute search of google and wikipedia about the nazis, the rocket attacks, and the actions of Israel is disgraceful.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:05 am |
  9. U3

    I have climbed highest mountains
    I have run through the deserts
    Only to be with you Mohammad
    Only to be with you Mohammad

    I have run
    I have crawled
    I have scaled these Mecca rocks
    These city walls
    Only to be with you Mohammad

    But I still haven't found what I'm looking for
    But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

    September 16, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Mitra ism, absurdity of some hindu Jew' criminal self centered pretending to be Muslim. visit http://www.lotsoflimitisthetruth.com/blog.html and click on DavidWho to open file.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:51 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      use your own ID to post, hindu, absurd.

      September 16, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      stay away from my ID, your hind hurts skunk, absurdity of pagan God, thief denier of truth absolute Al, the La, limited, H, high Mohammad the Limited truth, essence of existence proven by Quran. for more for more visit limitisthetruth.com/blog.html and click on word "Innocence-of-Mohammad" to open file, but turn off virus protection first.

      September 16, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
  10. Ariel

    So... yadda, yadda, yadda...
    What is the point of the article besides yadda yadda?

    September 16, 2012 at 10:45 pm |

    johnnyc, Peter was the apostle to the circu mcision. You saying the believers at Rome were 95% Jewish?

    September 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
  12. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Recovering a thread that started a few days ago:

    Chad: you see, here's the thing so many athiests dont know

    Jesus IS the JEWISH messiah
    God, is His FATHER
    The Holy Spirit comes from the Father

    these are all old testament, and new testament, foundational truths.
    the only difference between Christians and Jews is that Christians believe that the Messiah has come, and Jews are still waiting for that return.

    really, if you are going to attempt to discuss biblical concepts, dont you think you should read it?"


    Tom, Tom, the Other One: I think you approach the world with studied ignorance, Chad. The New Testament is useless to most Jews, Chad. The whole concept of a divine Messiah, much less the Trinity, is not recognized by them at all. The only people who do believe in your God, Chad, are people who have believed the New Testament and the teachings of the Christian church fathers. Your God of Abraham is simply not what they believe in, Chad. Do some reading Chad. Start with what the Jews are actually looking for in their Messiah. Then do some thinking on what Jews mean when they say "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one". Really, Chad, they don't and won't believe in your triune God.

    I'm curious. Do you believe that Jews must accept the "foundational truths" of your New Testament?

    September 16, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      actually the holy spirit is a t!tl3 for Metatron

      i call him the greatest jack off of them all
      or was that Mastema

      what does it matter their all @ss hats

      September 16, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Chad may think he *knows* those things but in reality he believes unsupported myths. In other words, he is delusional.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
    • Chad

      @Tom, Tom, the Other “ The New Testament is useless to most Jews, Chad. The whole concept of a divine Messiah, much less the Trinity, is not recognized by them at all… Your God of Abraham is simply not what they believe in,”

      @Chad “Jews don’t have a concept of a Messiah????
      They don’t believe in the God of Abraham??

      Have you told them this ???
      Look, if you want to discuss the bible… here’s the thing.. you have to read it..

      also: Jews dont believe in the New Testament.. they are still waiting for the Messiah to come.

      that's the difference between Chriistians and Jews..

      you will probably be VERY surprised to know that the Christian Old Testament IS the Jewish Torah, the books of the law and prophets.. Christians and Jews recognize the same exact OT text as being divine..

      didnt know that did you
      well.. never reading it, I"m not surprised..

      what DOES surprise me, is that never having read it, hasnt stopped you from being an "authority" on it .

      September 16, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • Jack

      You REALLY should check out the renown talmud scholar, Berkeley Professor Daniel Boyarin's book, "The Jewish Gospels" (2012). He makes a very strong case for how Jewish the gospels are, and how reasonable it was for first century Jews to accept Yeshua as the promised Messiah.
      Just because the modern day Jews you know do not accept the jewishness of the gospels does not make that universally true.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:24 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Ah, there's Chad.

      Your God of Abraham, being triune in nature, is not the same as the God of Abraham worshiped by Jews.

      The Messiah Jews are looking for is not a divine being, and will not be "one person" with God.

      The Torah is not thought to be the "Old Testament" because there is no New Testament that Jews would accept as a valid addition to the word of God.

      I know you're struggling with this, Chad. Chin up! We'll get you through this. Remember we're all in this together. AMDG

      September 17, 2012 at 9:21 am |
    • Chad

      @Tom, Tom, the Other One "Your God of Abraham, being triune in nature, is not the same as the God of Abraham worshiped by Jews."
      @Chad "Please explain how the "Christian God" is it "triune" (and, you MUST do this ONLY by citing the New Testament. Citing theological constructions by later(post first century) Christians is of course invalid.. You must stick with the biblical text.

      now, you wont attempt to do this. because you are completely unfamiliar with the bible, and have demonstrated time and again that you have no desire to ground your criticisms in actual biblical context.. (IOW, you dont know what you are talking about, and you are very comfortable with that situation)

      @Tom, Tom, the Other One "The Messiah Jews are looking for is not a divine being, and will not be "one person" with God."
      @Chad "The Messianic Jews are looking for a Messiah that will fulfill OT prophecy such as:
      “‘I declare to you that the Lord will build a house for you: 11 When your days are over and you go to be with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He is the one who will build a house for me, and I will establish his throne forever. 13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. 14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’” 1 Chron 17

      “‘The Lord declares to you that the Lord himself will establish a house for you: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands. 15 But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me[b]; your throne will be established forever.’” 2 Samuel 7

      @Tom, Tom, the Other One "The Torah is not thought to be the "Old Testament" because there is no New Testament that Jews would accept as a valid addition to the word of God."
      @Chad "LOL
      I never said the Jews consider the Torah to OT did I 🙂

      what I said was the OT and the Torah-Law-Prophets contain the same exact text.

      September 17, 2012 at 11:38 am |
  13. joe

    religion, any religion = mental disorder.

    September 16, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Religion is mans ideal.but God wants a relationship and love with people
      when a man loves his wife he dont say I religion you he says I love you too his wife the queen of his dreams
      when a dad say children are hungry he is not going too feed them religion
      he is going too feed them with real food not man made religion you cant eat religion

      September 16, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • derf

      But you can eat God, right? I mean the body and the blood thing.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Derf whats more real the supernatural invisible world or man made religion

      September 16, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • cosmicc

      So, where in this article does it really discuss religious beliefs. The discussion is about Jews as an ethnic group. I consider myself culturally Jewish, but I'm an atheist.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:41 pm |
  14. Bibi Netanyahu

    "Let's you and him have a fight!"

    Really, if Israel wants someone to take on Iran on their behalf then let them turn to China. Iran is fairly close to China and the prospect of yet another nuclear armed mini-state in their neighborhood must make them nervous.

    September 16, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Again man made is no match for the messianic kingdom,you people will never beat the God of Isreal

      September 16, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • cosmicc

      China has a strong bias against intervention. Even if they disagree with Iran, they won't violate Iran's sovereignity until their own is threatened.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • Richard

      Not to diverge too much off topic, but 10 years ago, Israel said that if the Iranian nuclear situation wasn't dealt with, in a year (9 years ago) it would be too late. My question then is; they bombed the Osirak reactor in Iraq in 1980 to stop the same kind of program. Why didn't they do the same to Iran, why try to drag the U.S. into it?

      September 16, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
  15. Bribarian

    does anyone ever stop to wonder why jews get 100% more articles than anyone else on these sites?

    September 16, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Jewish people are mixed with just about every race on the earth,name any country you find jewish mixed people fact check me on that

      September 16, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Tony

      oh comeon another conspiracy monger? Suggesting that a few jews secretely paid CNN to write an article (none to flattering) about them? Moron.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:06 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Hey tony you are thinking that isreal is a lost cause,you people have no ideal what you are fighting the same God who was with moshe,and king david and jesus

      September 16, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
  16. hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

    Crucifixion is fiction, and Islam is hinduism, religion of Theen or Thin Allah. for more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html to learn ism, criminality of frog people, criminals.

    September 16, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Crucifixion was a european death device came from the romans who where italians

      September 16, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      hinduism absurdity of a hindu ID thief.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      you are fvck ism ID thief. Stay out of my way or your Hind hurts. You are filthy Garbage writer, incoherent to the core, denier of truth absolute 180*. Education is not a bad thing. Lear to read and write is important too, filthy skunk. Get yourself a new ID, you fat belly pig. visit my link truthislimitedoncnn.com/blog.html and click on Alibaba-40thiefs to open file.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      You sound like a cry baby I have six deployments and never cryed as much as I hear you cry I am a gulf war 1 vet of 1991

      September 16, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      I am an original gulf war vet of 700 AD, filthy your Hind hurts, I had se x deployments under Mohammad too skunk.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Your man made religion is no diffrent then the klu klux klan,you are in whats called dead works

      September 16, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
  17. Sam Yaza

    i'm telling you its just real scary to read some of these Christians post while playing SMT

    September 16, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      whats more scary zechariah 14 or
      man made name religions

      September 16, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      that's already happened remember Jerusalem fell to Babylon,.. but were was i a oh yeah

      death to Israel, freedom to Palestine

      September 16, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      the mount of olives has not split in two from east to west

      September 16, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      its not meant literally, its meant as a border and well

      the mount is were the Palestinian nation and the Israeli i split

      September 16, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      both Palestinians and Israeli are Jews and thus a divided nation

      September 16, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      You are fighting a loseing battle with the GOD OF ISREAL,He is and will keep his Word too Abraham and king david

      September 16, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      "He" IS a tyrannical narcissist

      September 16, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      You have religion but no wisdom

      September 16, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      actually i'm spiritual not religious,.. ... but never the less do you have any idea who i am her is a hint שמיחזה
      Google it

      you God and me go way back

      September 16, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Sam been spiritual and religion is dead works,if you dont understand the Wisdom of the Messianic kingdom
      you will never understand True Wisdom

      September 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Here is some Wisdom sam you go look at a new home it cost 50000 us dallors
      you have too make or have five times that in the bank or 250,0000 us dallors,you go look at a car it cost 10,000 usd you need too make or have 50,000 thousand usd 20% for car 20%
      for house thats the very basic of understanding Messianic kingdom Wisdom

      September 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      no that's just smart business

      September 16, 2012 at 10:52 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Ok if its smart buisness show me where king david king solomon Abraham put a down payment on things they paid for up front with fact check me on that sam

      September 16, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      they were all powerful they did no pay for anything they took it by force

      September 17, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
  18. hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

    Who was the first man on Jupiter?

    September 16, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      to find out visit http://www.truthaboutjupiterandthinallah.com/blog.html and click om WALI to open file.

      September 16, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Religion is man made wisdom is GOD made there is no sickness or poverty in wisdom

      September 16, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Wisdom is the rabbi or master,knowledge is the student,understanding is a pathway on a road map of life

      September 16, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      and your Mother is your best friend you filthy Hindu Jew Self centered denier of truth 180* ALLAH, AL, THE , LA, LIMIT, H, MOST HIGH OR ABSOLUTE 180*. CHRISTIANS, IGNORANT TRINITY, DIVIDE OF FAKE ABSOLUTE STAR. visit my link thetruthhurts.com/blog.html and click on melgibson to open file.

      September 16, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      hindism ABSURDITYof a hinfu IGNORANT from hundred gutter of hinduism, illegality called india.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:12 pm |
  19. Sheila

    Keith, Jesus is the Chief cornerstone of the True church which is the body of Christ, made up of all the believers in Christ. It is not a building it is not man created doctrine but the word of God unified through Spirit in everyone that believes. But there will be a New Temple that will descent down out of the Clouds that only those in Christ can enter in. But that is sometime later. It is not a man made temple.

    September 16, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Jesus wants christains too bring jewish people back too isreal

      September 16, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Yes the messianic mishkan or temple shall come as a bride,but the third miskan has too be rebuilt first

      September 16, 2012 at 9:21 pm |

      hammer, Australia has a big peaceful desert and it worked once for the hapless.

      September 16, 2012 at 9:44 pm |

      We could flip a coin. heads Islam, tails Jews

      September 16, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • JohnnyC

      Sheila, the "Church" is that referred to in Matthew 16:18 and it consists of those who visibly belong to the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. There is only one Church, and it is not merely a collection of all "who believe." Believe in what, exactly?

      September 16, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      By the way have mud will travel,too answer your question,Austraila will
      go through more drought and famine and wild animals attacking people

      September 16, 2012 at 10:30 pm |

      Semites can handle it just fine.

      September 16, 2012 at 10:51 pm |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Have mud you have no ideal whats about too take place on the earth from the messianic kingdom you just dont get it???????

      September 16, 2012 at 11:13 pm |

      Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.

      September 16, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • End Religion

      You're wallowing in delusion. You're a grown woman. Use your head. I understand religion makes you feel special. It's just a delusion. How about dumping it and get on with making this world a better place for those around you, and quit worrying so much about what'll happen in some non-existent afterlife?

      September 17, 2012 at 12:56 am |
  20. nestor

    what the land of milk and honey ? for sure some day will be the land of milk and honey, but not now today is the land of apartheid and segregate people who is not considered jew, even if has a jew father, these jew change everything from top to the bottom, to our father is the the promise not to his wife sara, and Ruth the moabites was the mother of Obed and Obed begot Jesse and Jesse Begot David , how was that change occur is one man or one woman don't come from a jew woman he or she is not jewish.

    September 16, 2012 at 9:11 pm |
    • Sheila

      Actually Nestor, the Moabites were descendants of Lot who was a blood relative of Abraham so of the same bloodline and nationality on the paternal side. Boaz was Jewish and by accepting the Jewish teachings she became Jewish. Just like you are not born a "Christian" but by accepting Jesus Christ and walking in his teachings you can become a member of the body of Christ a true Christian. There are those who claim to be Christians not walking in the teachings of Christ. So like in the old days a true Jew were those who followed the word of God, the same is true of the Christian. A true Christian is someone who follows...lives their life according to the teachings of God. This woman you say is a Moabite, was an ancester of Jesus Christ, for it is through the line of David he was born.

      September 16, 2012 at 9:27 pm |
    • End Religion

      You're focusing a magnifying glass on a delusion. All religion is false.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:53 am |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.