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Internet intensifies Jewish squabbles over Israel, identity
Religious Jews at Jerusalem’s Western Wall earlier this month.
September 25th, 2012
02:30 PM ET

Internet intensifies Jewish squabbles over Israel, identity

By Dave Schechter, CNN

(CNN) - Forgive those who have sinned against you. Seek forgiveness for your sins against others. Forgive yourself.

In a nutshell, that is Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, which begins at sunset Tuesday.

There are many forms of sin, to be sure.

In their sermons some rabbis will no doubt voice concern about the way American Jews talk to each other about Israel, about politics and even what it means to be Jewish, lamenting an often divisive and sometimes caustic tone.

These rabbis may suggest that on Yom Kippur some among their congregants may wish to atone, at least symbolically, for the nasty language and name calling too frequently employed in discussions that turn to argument, whether in-person or online - notably in the comments sections after articles at Israel and on social media platforms such as Twitter.

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Twitter provides abundant examples of caustic exchanges. Without naming the offenders and focusing instead on the type of language used, there was the Jewish organizational leader who suggested that a politically liberal Jewish commentator might be a registered lobbyist on behalf of Nazis, while that same liberal Jewish commentator referred to an organization well-known for its attention to hate crimes and anti-Semitism as “flatulent frauds” and to a well-known Jewish academic as “dementia-struck.”

Old-fashioned, face-to-face discussion also has become problematic. “When it comes to talking about Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian situation, that heat can burn up even the most well meaning friendships, community relationships, family connections,” observed Rachel Eryn Kalish, an organizer of the San Francisco-area Year of Civil Discourse Initiative that was “designed to elevate the level of discourse in the Jewish community when discussing Israel.”

Rabbi David Wolpe of Sinai Temple in Los Angeles was asked by Rob Eshman, publisher and editor-in-chief of the Jewish Journal, why he would deliver a benediction at the Democratic National Convention earlier this month, given the polarized political climate. “I see this not as politics but as prayer,” Wolpe said. “It’s a chance to present Judaism on a national, if not international, stage. It’s a shame some see it otherwise.”

Eshman followed with a comment of his own: “Yes, a shame — but a predictable one. Hyper-partisanship has infected the Jewish community, as it has America. Too many of us have bought into the idea that our side has all the answers. But no party, like no person, is invested with perfect insight and far-seeing wisdom. Fixing Medicare? Boosting unemployment? Defanging Iran?

To quote Woody Allen, most of us don’t even know how a can opener works.”

The idea that argument is central to the Jewish experience is not new. Serious debate over the meaning of phrases within the holy books has existed almost since the beginning – and this is the year 5773 on the Jewish calendar. The old joke about “two Jews, three opinions” did not originate without some measure of truth behind it. But the most modern communications technology has brought a new intensity to disagreements.

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Ron Kampeas, the Washington bureau chief for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, a news service utilized by Jewish newspapers, online services and other media, offered CNN this perspective: “American Jews are eager to attach their Judaism to their broader ways of thinking - political, social mores, even what and how they eat. America's is the first society in which Jews, like other minorities, were encouraged to take pride in their difference from others.”

“It took decades for American Jews to figure it out,” he said. “But when they saw what ethnic pride did for the American Irish, the American German, the American Italian, they embraced it with a vengeance. By the 1960s, cultural refractions of Judaism through literature, movie, pop culture, song became de rigeur. And then, with the ascension of political figures like Bella Abzug, Ed Koch and Jacob Javits this was true of politics. So real differences in outlooks - from what's funny to what role government should play in out life - become enshrouded in Jewish rationales.”

And as these differences in outlook extend into discussions of politics or Israel, there is strain. “Because Jewish identity is so fraught - even as it has evolved into an outright pride, Jews are still acutely aware of the humiliations that once attached to being Jewish - these arguments are more prone to become bitter exchanges over self-definition,” Kampeas said.

That theme of a community tearing itself apart also was evident in a piece written last year in The Jewish Daily Forward by David Hazony, author of “The Ten Commandments: How Our Most Ancient Moral Text Can Renew Modern Life.”

“With so many Jewish ‘umbrella’ groups, Jewish community centers, federations and so on, it’s easy to believe that, at least on the face of things, Jewish peoplehood in America is thriving,” Hazony wrote. “Yet, something does seem to be dying in the American Jewish fire. The infighting among Jewish groups, the polarization on Israel and the willingness to demonize whole communities of fellow Jews have become so extreme that one begins to wonder what, exactly, is left of the Jewish family.”

Hazony went on to say that “the problem may be at its worst when it comes to politics. Here, American Jews are ferociously divided, with each side accusing the other of fraternizing with a perceived enemy. For Jews on the left, conservatives have joined forces with that most fearsome part of America, conservative Christians, to undermine the liberal, secular space that Jews have worked so hard to carve out for themselves as the real solution to the Jewish problem. For Jews on the right, liberals have joined forces with pro-Palestinian activists, universalists and others who threaten the Jewish state that we worked so hard to create and protect as the real solution to the Jewish problem.”

By most estimates, only 20-35% of American Jews have visited Israel, although a survey of more than 1,000 American Jews by the American Jewish Committee found that 41% said they had visited Israel. “That a majority of American Jews have never been to Israel, and that those who have are, for the most part, infrequent visitors, is an old and sad story,” the American Jewish Committee’s media director, Kenneth Bandler, wrote in The Jerusalem Post.

This could be interpreted as meaning that a significant percentage of the American Jewish community is getting hot under the collar and on their keyboards about a place that exists firmly in their hearts, without ever having been there.

Last month, author Daniel Gordis referenced the response he received to adding his name to a petition on an issue related to Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Gordis, who has written that “Fairly or not, I’m seen as slightly right of center on Israel,” did not foresee the response to his signature. What “genuinely shocked me has been the level of vitriol, blatant intellectual dishonesty, and expectations of conformity,” he wrote.

“As the Jewish world prepares to commemorate Tisha B’Av, the date of the destruction of both Temples, the second of which the Talmud claims was destroyed because of baseless hatred among Jews, I find myself despondent about the way we Jews talk to one another and what it means for our future. If the ugliness that the rabbis said led to the destruction of the Temple is now the tone we take for granted, why shouldn’t young Jews just walk away?” Gordis said.

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“Comments sections are, of course, the province of those with too much time on their hands, and our culture of Web anonymity invites terrible excesses,” Gordis wrote, adding “Have we learned nothing at all about the dangers of language run amok from the horrors of Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination? Are we wholly unchastened by where we’ve been in the past as a people? Do we not believe that there should be limits on what we can and cannot say to one another?”

Scientific American recently published an article titled “Why Is Everyone on the Internet So Angry?”  in which Art Markman, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas characterized online comments as "extraordinarily aggressive, without resolving anything.”

"At the end of it you can't possibly feel like anybody heard you. Having a strong emotional experience that doesn't resolve itself in any healthy way can't be a good thing,” Markman wrote.

Among those who, depending on your viewpoint, inspire or provoke online is M.J. Rosenberg, who is active on Twitter, where, as in the writings on his website, he pulls no punches. Rosenberg’s resume ranges from working for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, widely regarded as among the most powerful advocacy organizations in Washington, to a stint as a foreign policy fellow at the Media Matters Action Network, a politically liberal organization.

Asked why American Jews have such difficulties with civil discourse over matters related to Israel, Rosenberg told CNN: “The answer is that both sides take this issue very seriously and, frankly, believe that the other is risking the survival and security of Israel and the Jewish people. I know I feel that way about the right and I know that people on the right feel that way about my side - the left. I think both sides feel that the other is jeopardizing a basic part of our selves, our Judaism and the Jewish state.

“And that produces anger and even fury,” he said. “Those on my side are particularly angry because the right tends to act as if it is speaking for all Jews. It isn't. We need to speak all the more forcefully to be heard. Additionally, they have resources we don’t have. We only have our voices.”

From what might be termed the other side of the political spectrum is this perspective from Noah Pollak, executive director of the Emergency Committee for Israel, who told CNN: “There's a reason for the old adage that one should never discuss politics or religion in polite company. These topics often lead to impoliteness, and it's no less true of Jews discussing Israel and religion as anyone else.

“I spend a lot of time in my job arguing about Israel, and the fact is (as verified by polling) that American Jews are pretty unified on a range of Israel questions – they are firmly on Israel's side in matters of war and diplomacy,” Pollak said. “However, there is a small minority of left-wing American Jews who dissent from this consensus, and they have an unfortunate tendency to invoke their Jewishness in the course of denouncing Israel, as if their religious affiliation lends some higher credibility or insight on the question of what to do about Hamas or Iran or the peace process.”

“Me, I'm fine with heated arguments,” he continued. “Jews have been arguing for thousands of years - we privilege and enjoy debate, and as far as my side is concerned, I'm pretty sure we have the winning case.”

But if everyone believes they have the winning case  ...

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Holidays • Internet • Judaism

soundoff (495 Responses)
  1. Atheism is Great for Kids and Grown-Ups Too!

    It's really best for all people including children to have an agnostic approach to god, and an atheistic approach to all religion. It keeps things simple for kids, and lets them be all that they can be. They just need to be taught that some things, like all religion, were just made up by salesmen and politicians from long ago. (Yes, charlatan folklore and spam started long before the Bible; what would make you think they hadn't?) And they need to be taught that other things, like God, we really don't know a damn thing about.

    Atheists have strong minds and don't need a religion. Many religious folk have the best intentions. But too often, religious folk run and hide their misdeeds within their religion (and by doing so, they disserve society). And too often, religious folk are easily offended when someone mocks their make-believe characters – and, as we can see they can get really CRAZY!

    Although there are many religious folk with good intentions – some selflessly helping others, religions and religious organizations are, as a whole, just big old clubs – each trying to out do each other and inspiring hate and division (often disguised as love) along the way. The problem is that people too easily buy into religion and don't realize how unfounded it all is. And when they buy into it, they buy into a lot of really old, really weird tenets that are nothing but harmful for the human species.

    Of course Islam is a crazy religion. But look at Christianity. Just look at all the things that Christians argue about amongst themselves today – abortion, men's and women's roles in the church, celibacy, contraception, acceptance of gays, etc. Most of these issues have their roots in the conflicted, unfounded tenets of early Christianity. Non-Mormons harp on Joseph Smith these days. But we really don't have any more proof at all to believe that Paul, the self-proclaimed "apostle" was anything more than an ordinary man who needed to make up religious "sales literature" to survive and spread his own personal beliefs. And yet a good chunk of the NT is attributed to Paul and accepted by many Christians. And a lot of what he wrote about has to do with many of the issues I mentioned above that have Christians fighting amongst themselves hundreds of years later. I don't buy any of it.

    Get a good cup of tea, and sit down and collect your thoughts. If you find it helpful to pray to a god (something you know nothing about), fine. But it is really healthier for the mind to leave behind all the characters that people over the centuries have invented or given powers to, for which there is little or no foundation. Because with those invented characters and powers – that's where division and hate join the little party in your mind. That's where, in your mind, you are inheriting the division and hate from ordinary politicians, lobbyists and salesmen from long ago.

    mama kindless

    September 17, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • What?

      Why? So, we can fry along with you? No thanks. The burnouts on this site are enough to deal with knowing you are fried in this life as well as the hereafter.

      September 25, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
  2. Ramon F. Herrera

    Which is the party where hatred is most concentrated and distilled?

    The only ones qualified to make a statement are the victims of prejudice, persecution and racism themselves. Let's ask them, shall we?

    Here's their response:

    – Black folks voted for Obama, by a 96% margin.
    – Jewish folks voted for Obama, by a 75% margin.
    – Hispanic folks voted for Obama, by a 66% margin.
    – Asian folks voted for Obama, by a 63% margin.
    – Gay folks voted for Obama, by an unknown margin.

    ps: Oh, I almost forgot the largest minority of all:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-04-01/swing-states-poll/53930684/1

    September 17, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • Ramon F. Herrera

      When it comes to HATRED, Conservatives have an almost monopoly...

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsHi6_l1XzA&w=640&h=360]

      September 17, 2012 at 7:55 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      And jewish people intermarried in all the
      race of people you just talked about

      September 17, 2012 at 8:03 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      By the way here are just a couple famous
      Mixed jewish people lenny kravitz,lisa bonet
      harry connick jr,adam sandler,gweneth pathrow
      Rosanne barr,jeff goldblum,steven steelburg
      walter kronkite,barry goldwater,gene hackman
      Tori spelling aaron spelling

      September 17, 2012 at 8:17 am |
    • Reality

      You missed the largest Obama voting bloc:

      Why the Christian Right no longer matters in presidential elections:

      Once again, all the conservative votes in the country "ain't" going to help a "pro-life" presidential candidate, i.e Mitt Romney, in 2012 as the "Immoral Majority" rules the country and will be doing so for awhile. The "Immoral Majority" you ask?

      The fastest growing USA voting bloc: In 2008, the 70+ million "Roe vs. Wade mothers and fathers" of aborted womb-babies" whose ranks grow by two million per year i.e. 78+ million "IM" voters in 2012.

      2008 Presidential popular vote results:

      69,456,897 for pro-abortion/choice BO, 59,934,814 for "pro-life" JM.

      And the irony:

      And all because many women fail to take the Pill once a day or men fail to use a condom even though in most cases these men have them in their pockets. (maybe they should be called the "Stupid Majority"?)

      The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions ( one million/yr) and S-TDs (19 million/yr) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or condoms properly and/or use other safer birth control methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.

      i.e. IF THE PILL AND MALE CONDOMS WERE USED PROPERLY, ABORTION WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE AND OBAMA WOULD NOT BE PRESIDENT.

      September 17, 2012 at 10:15 am |
  3. inachu

    Of course jews claim to be jewish by the line of the woman instead of a male but in either case todays jews are so watered down that the only redeeming quality they have left to say they are jewish is a big nose and pink skin.

    The jews of today more or less are trying to take over Israel politics for whom those who look mostly russian jewish.
    Even most jews think askenazi jews are a dead blood line and almost extinct.

    IIf I had any control in the matter I would only allow Sheperdic jews to live in Israel.

    The Russian jews and european jews kick out black jews and deny them entry or chemically castrate them if they want to be allowed to live in israel. All reports on Israel on youtube can back up what I say.
    Shame on the self hating jew who only wants similar likness of jews to live in Israel

    September 17, 2012 at 7:29 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Urim and thumim fact check that

      September 17, 2012 at 7:43 am |
    • What?

      The only question they need to get right is if they love and follow Jesus.

      September 25, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
  4. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things.

    September 17, 2012 at 7:27 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent correct statements is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent correct statements, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent correct statements is: "TOTAL FAIL, DUDE".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
      by the Alzheimer's Disease Society

      September 17, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • What?

      hat, we already know that atheists are zero. Why, keep repeating yourself?

      September 25, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
  5. 200 TON HAMMER

    it just that you have a guilty heart wisdom can fix it

    September 17, 2012 at 7:14 am |
  6. Olala

    I don't understand why Public Schools are closed for Jewish holidays in NJ/NY when they are minority!!

    September 17, 2012 at 7:12 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      King David and jesus celebrated the jewish high holidays that you talk about

      September 17, 2012 at 7:17 am |
  7. Who invited me?
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    September 17, 2012 at 6:37 am |
    • What?

      Typical atheist wasting oxygen.

      September 25, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
  8. Paul Houston, Tx

    People claim "oh there is no God because iof the theory of evolution" how sad that a theory , I say again, a theory, is labeled fact, yet no one has looked a what life all around us says. It says DNA could never evolve out of plain old dirt. They never try to explain what came first DNA or life, yet the fossil record screams life from earliest examples was DNA based. These sudo science people never answer why life has stopped evolving from one life form to another all over the world. Because evolution says we came from reptiles. So why dont we see life in quasi states? What science does say is you cant have just one anomoly life form replicate into thousands or millions. In plain baby talk, if a lizard spontaneously changed into a cat that cat could not replicate itself and even if two or three changed exactly at the same time without a wider pool of dna you would have species collapse.Zoologists see this all the time when only a hand say lions keep breeding together, certain genetic defects become fixed and you get more malformed or deformed offspring. They also never touch how complex life developed sybiotic relationships from the very beginning of the fossil record. Jelly fish some of the first complex lifeforms used microbial sybiosis to live and thrive, trilobites, exoskeletal sea creatures needed bacteria to digest food but not one scientist will touch that. Also no one will say how DNA can be automatically fixed by enzymes. Because when a cell is about to divide the DNA IS CHECKED and as it is checked any damaged or missing bits detected by enzymes are automatically fixed. No one can explain how enzymes can tell which parts of the DNA strand is damaged when it isnt alive. Also as we all know when life is exposed to high doses of radiation their DNA GETS SEVERELY DAMAGED yet supposedly that is how life evovled. There are so many millions of questions that scientist cant answer about life, and yet these questions have to be answered first to prove evolution. Yet instead of answering all these questions by duplicative facts, sudo scientist and those who follow them bash those who rightly attribute all things to God. Their goto answer is then "life fell to earth" that way they dont have to prove their assumptions because no one can travel to other planets or solar systems. For my sudo science critic: you prove my point about not being truly happy, thats why you turn to hate because it is the only thing that makes you feel alive. So you thrive and seek more ways to vent, including on yourself and others. My guess is you never tried to come to know God, you personally never tried to honestly pray for God to help you understand the Bible, and why we die and what is about to take place earth wide. So I will pray for you tonight. I will ask God to help you come to know him.

    September 17, 2012 at 4:41 am |
    • Thugvon

      So, who created god? You will say, nobody...but how can something come from nothing?

      September 17, 2012 at 5:03 am |
    • Damocles

      @Paul

      What in the blue hell is 'sudo'?

      September 17, 2012 at 5:17 am |
    • Mickey

      pseudo ... might be the word you meant.

      September 17, 2012 at 5:26 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      People say that jewish are evil but they love
      Superman who was created by two jewish men
      and jewish people have intermarried into
      hundreds of race of people even those that say they hate jewish people might have jewish
      Blood line in their family just saying DNA dont lie

      September 17, 2012 at 6:23 am |
  9. Gareeth

    Not typing the name is not about fear but respect. Something it seems 99 percent of the posters here could use some lessons on. Not sure why there were so few comments on the actual article rather than the same religious bashing comments you can see everywhere else. If you don't believe in G-d that's fine. I do believe however if you were as secure in that lack of belief as your words say you wouldn't feel the need to ridicule those that do. It's possible to be rational and educated and have a deep faith. Of course I am not seeing much here that is rational or demonstrates any education on the relevant issues.

    September 17, 2012 at 4:11 am |
  10. kh

    "Two jews, three opinions". What a lucky people!

    I , not a jew, have more than a handfull of different views, and am unable to decide which is the better."

    September 17, 2012 at 3:02 am |
    • J Smith

      Uncertainty is characteristic of wisdom. Anyone who claims to know everything knows little, and what he knows least is his ignorance.

      September 17, 2012 at 6:29 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Man cant create wisdom man dont have
      the wisdom too physical go into space
      and not need a space suit too breath in
      a vacuum with their lungs fact check me
      on that

      September 17, 2012 at 7:25 am |
  11. Paul Houston, Tx

    I find it sad for those who say God is not real, they dilude themselves with sudo science claiming all living things arouse from a pile of irradiated rocks. They refuse to even try to come to know him because if they really did then they would realize their actions are immoral, and that they will be held accountable for their ungodliness. They reject the notion of loving thy neighbor and they to their error and doom place faith in noble men only to be dissatisfied time and again. They thus live each day feeling miserable with themselves and others, never ever knowing why we are here and why their is so much suffering in the world. Thats why they abuse their bodies and abuse the hearts and minds and bodies of those around them. And even if God did perform a sign for them to prove He is real, they would instantly reject it because they do not want to feel guilt for their ungodly actions. So they embrace that a monkey is their uncle, that life is a cosmic accident, yet lament when they see people murder, lie, cheat, and steal, the very laws that God gave man long ago. Its easier to continue rejecting God than having to change. How really sad it is that to each and everyone of us God has extended His loving Hand to comfort us and inform us that very soon He will make all things new, how sad it is that most reject Him and either bash God or pervert His Words in the Bible for their own gain, or to justify the waging of war or acts of violence upon their neighbor both here and abroad. How sad it is that all of us can feel truly happy and content with life if we all came to know who God is and what he expects of us. So continue down the same road that leads nowhere. My only wish is that each of you stop for just a moment and try to know God, pray to Him and honestly ask for understanding and help. God promises He will help us when we honestly ask.

    September 17, 2012 at 2:32 am |
    • Yet another reason not to live in Texas

      "Sudo science."

      It's really wonderful when a poster lets you know he is a total moron right in the first sentence with three comically bad spelling errors. You then know what's going to follow, and Paul didn't disappoint.

      Please, Paul, go right out and tell your "wisdom" to everyone you see. You will convert far more to atheism than I ever will, so keep up the good work!

      September 17, 2012 at 2:57 am |
    • End Religion

      @PaulTexAss: "I find it sad for those who say God is not real, they dilude themselves with sudo science claiming all living things arouse from a pile of irradiated rocks."

      Paul, dictionaries don't by osmosis. You have to open them and read.

      ***
      "They refuse to even try to come to know him because if they really did then they would realize their actions are immoral, and that they will be held accountable for their ungodliness."

      Many atheists arive there *because* they were a part of a religion and through critical thinking managed to step out of the delusion. They got to "know him" and realized it was all a lie.

      If "morality" or "godliness" is defined by the example of your god, then I don't want any part of it. Your god is the most brutal, hateful and jealous being I've ever heard of. Thankfully, he's fiction, and won't be holding anyone accountable for his warped views on how we should treat one another.

      ***
      "They reject the notion of loving thy neighbor and they to their error and doom place faith in noble men only to be dissatisfied time and again."

      How do you have any idea how atheists treat our neighbors? You're not omniscient. You're just some brain damaged human. Just this morning I invited my neighbor over for tea and strumpets.

      ***
      "They thus live each day feeling miserable with themselves and others,"

      I'm happy, and your delusion makes me laugh. That's not misery.

      ***
      "never ever knowing why we are here and why their is so much suffering in the world."

      We're here for no reason. We're a chance creation, compelled to survive. There is suffering because the majority of the world is living under the delusion of a collection of divisive religions which are generally fascinated with violence and death.

      ***
      "Thats why they abuse their bodies and abuse the hearts and minds and bodies of those around them."

      There are no overweight Christians? No Christian smokers? For goodness sake, a part of your religious ritual is to drink wine, which is a dilute poison. We free the hearts and minds of those around us, hoping to free them from the abuse of religion.

      ***
      "And even if God did perform a sign for them to prove He is real, they would instantly reject it because they do not want to feel guilt for their ungodly actions."

      Wrong answer. We'd love to see something we could test to prove existence of a god. We're looking for facts.

      ***
      "So they embrace that a monkey is their uncle, that life is a cosmic accident, yet lament when they see people murder, lie, cheat, and steal, the very laws that God gave man long ago."

      Well, a monkey-like creature was one ancestor, yes, but the evolution has been all the way from elements. It didn't start with a monkey. You're right about the cosmic accident.

      Laws are manmade. Any 12 year old could write more appropriate commandments than the 10 supposedly supplied by your god.

      ***
      "God has extended His loving Hand to comfort us and inform us that very soon He will make all things new"

      His loving hand:
      And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. - Gen. 38:7

      For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.– Ex. 12:12

      The LORD is a man of war.– Ex. 15:3

      For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death.– Lev. 20:9

      ...it just goes on and on. God says he's about love but actually takes very little action in that direction. His violent actions speak louder.

      Very soon.... very soon. We've been hearing that for 2000 years. Keep waiting.

      ***
      ", how sad it is that most reject Him and either bash God or pervert His Words in the Bible for their own gain"

      We're taking the words right from the bible, which is supposed to be the inerrant word of your infallible god.

      September 17, 2012 at 4:00 am |
    • What?

      End Religion, come clean now. Atheists are stunted individuals that never grow. I do believe the science community refers to you as Peter or Patricia Pans.

      September 25, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
  12. Hindu

    @ScottCA

    God was famous before you were born and God will remain famous after you did. Your existence is insignificant on cosmic scale of time. God's fame is eternal. You will lose at the end of this battle you have picked.

    September 17, 2012 at 1:18 am |
    • ScottCA

      The same can be said for fairies and magic dust but none of these things exist outside our imaginations. Harry potter and his magic goblet will out live us both in the same manner.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:21 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Yeah and people think jesus was blue eye blond hair born in norway on december 25th
      keeping it real urim thumim

      September 17, 2012 at 1:23 am |
    • ScottCA

      Ignorance is doomed to die in time as truth is exposed.

      Arguing on the side of religion is a fools endeavor, you doom yourself to be proven wrong in time; a little thing called reality keeps getting in the way.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:27 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      yeah for reality too be real too religion people
      is too want too make a lie into a false truth
      Of dead works

      September 17, 2012 at 1:31 am |
    • fred

      ScottCA
      Not actually as God is matter, simply not the physical matter which man prides himself on being able to measure and study. Based on all recorded history since Neanderthal man has senses that go beyond the standard 5 which is why man looks up when worshiping God. It is also why God is viewed with awe and respect. Spirituality is a good way to sum up that which exists outside the physical. Just as we first learned to track “invisible” particles by observing their effect we can track the effect of that which we have yet to measure. Take the authority of the Bible for instance. Regardless if there is or is not a God the Bible has the authority attributed from God. In the past 1.600 years man has yielded to that authority. That being the case the authority stands even if God at some later date should prove to be non-existent. That force also has the power to transform lives which can be doc-umented consistently from empirical observation and transformation repeated when the same force is applied.
      Faith allows believers to see this force and understand it. The understanding is consistent and proportional to the level of faith. There is no doubt something is there and just as the unknown behind the boundaries of scientific knowledge man subjectively has a view of what that is. Hawking would call it one thing because of his opposition to a personal God and bias that no God is necessary while a believer would call it God or some spiritual reference.
      Something is there and it is very powerful and vast we have no clue as science comes up with theory while faith gives knowledge and sight into ways of God. One day we all know.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:47 am |
    • lostisland

      To which 'god' are you referring?

      September 17, 2012 at 1:54 am |
    • GodFreeNow

      @fred, I guess we all missed the science class where they explained the chemical makeup of god. Could you share which book you're getting you details from?

      September 17, 2012 at 2:00 am |
    • fred

      lotisland
      There is but one God to which many faiths attempt to understand or the knowledge of which has been passed on from generation to generation. The best revelation I can grasp is the Hebrew God of Abraham as expressed through the eyes of those cultures. Then we have greater clarity from Jesus who was the full radiance of God. The Muslims see God through some old lens going back to Ishmael 4,400 some years ago that was clouded by the religion of Islam and desires of those who lust for the power of old priests.

      September 17, 2012 at 2:07 am |
    • tallulah13

      Fred, it's no mystery how gods are made. Humanity has a history of creating gods to explain the unknown. How many gods of thunder alone have been worshiped, or ocean gods, or gods of the sun or moon? You will find that the number of gods has decreased as human knowledge of natural phenomenon has grown. I suspect your god remains successful because death is one of the last great mysteries, and the christian mythology gives people a loophole to avoid a permanent case of it.

      September 17, 2012 at 2:15 am |
    • fred

      Godfreenow
      Chemicals have at their base physical properties of subatomic particles. All the chemistry we know has its roots in our known dimensions of time, space, length and width. There is a consensus that what exists outside our know dimensions (7 others ) must have matter different than what is known. Science does not have a clue simply theory upon theory (M theory for example) known religion does not have a clue either. Science and religion are in the same darkness when it comes to a description of the chemical nature of God.
      What we know for sure is men seek after science and a majority also seek after God for the answers.

      September 17, 2012 at 2:20 am |
    • GodFreeNow

      @fred, So you're saying you're just using more conjecture to form your idea of god. Just making sure.

      September 17, 2012 at 2:23 am |
    • fred

      Tallulah13
      No doubt man has made up gods over time and no doubt science has theories that change over time. Why speculate that social evolution and animal evolution are so different than the evolution of our intellect that allows greater understanding of the spiritual? The earth was once flat and we could not identify its location in the Milky Way.... perhaps when Jesus said things are not as they appear he knew something.
      We actually know more about God which is why we can discount other gods. Current science shows a power in dark energy that dwarfs gravity rendering the probability of intelligent life improbable. In fact it is impossible without the assuming a multiverse theory is possible. The unknown is now bigger than we thought and more powerful than we can imagine. It is beyond the comprehension of man, unknowable………………..it is also speculated to have always existed. But, that’s science not religion

      September 17, 2012 at 2:33 am |
    • fred

      Godfreenow
      No, faith pretty well dictates the image of God one comes up with and it is a bit different for everyone. I really do not have much new to add onto what the Bible reflects. I find what Jesus said as the easiest image to hold onto. I have yet to find any wrong with what Jesus said while I have found problems with other representations of God. Conjecture is probably a good summation based on available proofs.

      September 17, 2012 at 2:38 am |
    • GodFreeNow

      @fred, You can call it "faith", but you cannot deny this image only exists in your mind and in the mind of those who agree with you. That is the nature of conjecture.

      September 17, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • What?

      Amazing! Atheist insists on posting their ignorance on the internet.

      September 25, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
  13. Brian

    Israel did 911. For the evidence do a Google search Mossad 911 Mathaba and go to the Mathaba website.

    WHY IS THE US GOVERNMENT COVERING UP THE LATEST ISRAELI SPY RING? WHAT WAS THE ISRAELI SPY RING DOING THAT IS SUCH A THREAT TO THE US GOVERNMENT THAT THEY WOULD RATHER HAVE OVER A HUNDRED SPIES ESCAPE THAN RISK A PUBLIC TRIAL?

    "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
    - US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11.

    September 17, 2012 at 1:14 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Urim thumim

      September 17, 2012 at 1:17 am |
    • easyrhino

      "Investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying ... is considered career suicide." - Carl Cameron ...

      September 17, 2012 at 1:53 am |
    • lostisland

      @ easyrhino – the minute you mention something was cited on fox instantly means more half of americans won't pay attention, and with good reason.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:57 am |
    • andwheredidugetyourinfo?

      and who pray tell owns part of Fox news? hmmmmmm??? give you a hint Muslum

      September 17, 2012 at 1:58 am |
    • lostisland

      And easyrhino, the sad part about fox news being so toxic is that they're like kids crying wolf. Even if the wolf is there nobody believes it is....

      September 17, 2012 at 1:58 am |
    • lostisland

      @andwheredidugetyourinfo?
      "and who pray tell owns part of Fox news? hmmmmmm??? give you a hint Muslum" – given your moniker and juxtaposed with your statement says to me that your just trolling...cite your source, what (lol) 'Muslum' (it's Muslim btw) owns part of fox – consider it a dare...

      September 17, 2012 at 2:01 am |
    • easyrhino

      Lets try Haaretz for the skeptics:

      Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement.

      Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

      "I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right.

      http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579

      September 17, 2012 at 2:15 am |
  14. AvdBerg

    The local media, including CNN, Fox and your local TV stations and newspapers are a very important element of social and political behavior, as society is shaped by what it sees, hears and reads and it is conditioned by the events that influence the mind of every person. You reap what you sow.

    To allow anyone to be directed by public opinion is dangerous because most public opinion is the view of the media. If the media does not like something, their bias taints information getting to the public, and this forms public opinion. Public opinion is never based on research and facts. The public uses the media for its sole source of information and for this reason social behavior will continue to deteriorate and wax worse and worse (2 Timothy 3:13).

    For a better understanding of the role of the media we invite you to read the articles ‘Influence of the Media’ and ‘CNN Belief Blog – Sign of the Times’, listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

    The media does not provide accurate information on ‘Religion’ as it continues to ignore the truth and its history of deceptions (John 14:17). They have created the big chasm that now exists, without offering any solutions.

    Consider the truth about Evangelicals, Christianity and Islam and all other religions and ask yourself the following question.

    Are so-called Israelites, Evangelicals and Muslims and all those that call themselves ‘Christians’ followers of the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Word of God, or do they follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ (Matthew 24:24; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8)?

    For a better understanding of the history of Christianity, Judaism and Islam and its spread throughout the world, we invite you to read the articles ‘Can Christianity or Any Other Religion Save You?’, ‘World History and Developments in the Middle East’ and ‘Clash of Civilizations’, listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

    For there is none other name (Jesus Christ) under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:10-12).

    All of the other pages and articles listed on our website explain how and by whom this whole world has been deceived as confirmed in Revelation 12:9.

    September 17, 2012 at 1:11 am |
    • TROLL ALERT

      This poster is a well known lying TROLL on this site. Don't bother checking out their site which is full of lies so can sell their book to support their cult. Click the report abuse link to get rid of this troll.

      September 17, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
  15. End Religion

    Wow this place is chock full o'crazy!

    September 17, 2012 at 1:04 am |
    • ScottCA

      Yes and it frightens me deeply that the comments here are likely an accurate portrayal of American beliefs.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:08 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      You know whats crazy is that people seeing
      false visions in potato chips of jesus or a man
      Made stone statues of crying blood

      September 17, 2012 at 1:08 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      People people please know that the time is comeing that false man made religion be exposed the urim and Thumim shall flush out
      The turth

      September 17, 2012 at 1:14 am |
    • End Religion

      lol, yes 200, we know what's crazy. Sad that you don't know it's you. You're in deep.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:50 am |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      Crucifixion is fiction, and Islam is Mormonism, religion of Thin Allah, a good friend of Joseph the pig shepherd. for more visit http://www.limitisthetruth.com/blog.html to learn ism, criminality of Romney, criminals.

      September 17, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
  16. ScottCA

    Fantastic Video something every human being should know.
    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUe0_4rdj0U&w=640&h=360]

    September 17, 2012 at 1:00 am |
  17. Sheila

    thecollegeadmissionsguru

    Can you provide some factual evidence that the Hebrews were not slaves in Egypt ? No you cannot.

    September 17, 2012 at 12:29 am |
    • CD

      You can't prove a negative – provide evidence that they were.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:33 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Egypt will never be a super power again

      September 17, 2012 at 12:35 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Sheila, please provide factual evidence that the alledged virgin Mary was not a promiscuous slut.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:43 am |
    • Jon

      Lol find some evidence God has ever existed and that all religions aren't all crap. I'll wait.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:45 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      urim thumim get ready jerusalem too rebuild
      the miskan

      September 17, 2012 at 12:49 am |
    • Nah

      " get ready jerusalem too rebuild
      the miskan"

      Nah... it'll be overrun by kangaroos.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:53 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      To nah you are lost and dont understand wisdom is the teacher knowledge is the student,understanding is a pathway

      September 17, 2012 at 12:58 am |
  18. Reality

    Judaism continues to evolve. –>>>>

    To wit:

    Only for the newcomers:

    origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

    New Torah For Modern Minds

    “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses.
    (prob•a•bly
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

    The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

    The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel – not one shard of pottery."

    September 17, 2012 at 12:28 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      The mishkan shall be rebuilt up on mount moriah in the walled city of jerusalem,the man made religion Golden dome of the rock
      is a man made islam pagan dead works shall be torned down

      September 17, 2012 at 12:40 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      Urim Thumim with epod 12 stone chest plate
      islam cant say that G~d shall Get the last laugh at man made religions

      September 17, 2012 at 12:45 am |
    • I wonder

      "man made religions"

      INCLUDING Judaism. There is not a shred of verified evidence for the supernatural beings and events told about in your book.

      September 17, 2012 at 12:49 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      I wonder read first kings chapter 8:41~43

      September 17, 2012 at 12:55 am |
    • I wonder

      200,

      Sorry, you cannot use your book to prove your book. Again, there is not a shred of VERIFIED EVIDENCE for the supernatural beings and events told about in your book.

      September 17, 2012 at 1:07 am |
  19. hacham14

    I agree with the comment in the article that this squabble is created by a difference in views of how to protect Judaism and Israel. The divide can be broken into roughly two sides. Those you have an idealists and those who are realists. It can be divided again by those who feel there is a religious purpose to be in Israel vs a cultural reason to be there. Of course these are rough divisions, and the reality is that there are many gray areas between these divisions, where people's opinions lie.

    While some people view argument as a negative, in someways, it's not so bad. It allows the group to keep check of itself, and not get lost in its actions.

    September 17, 2012 at 12:22 am |
    • 200 TON HAMMER

      King david would pray before the Ark of G~d
      for wisdom on fighting the surrounding nations that hated the jewish people

      September 17, 2012 at 12:31 am |
    • End Religion

      so afraid of your "loving" god you dare not even type his name. How twisted is that?

      September 17, 2012 at 1:52 am |
  20. JUGGERNAUT

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH8O5NIyit4&w=640&h=360]

    September 17, 2012 at 12:21 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.