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Vatican newspaper calls fragment referring to Jesus' wife 'a fake'
The fragment is written in Coptic, a language used by some early Christians.
September 28th, 2012
02:30 PM ET

Vatican newspaper calls fragment referring to Jesus' wife 'a fake'

By Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editors

(CNN) - The Vatican on Friday appeared to push back on a recently publicized piece of papyrus that appears to show an early Christian referring to Jesus' wife, with its newspaper calling the fragment “a fake.”

“Substantial reasons would lead us to conclude that the papyrus is actually a clumsy counterfeit,” the Vatican’s  newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, said in a Friday editorial by the newspaper’s editor.

“In other words, in any case it is a fake,” wrote L'Osservatore Romano editor-in-chief Gian Maria Vian.

The fragment referring to Jesus wife was written in Coptic, a language used by Egyptian Christians, and says in part, "Jesus said to them, 'My wife ..."

The paper is generally thought to reflect the views of Vatican officials.

5 Questions and answers about Jesus’ “wife”

Harvard Divinity School professor Karen King announced the findings of the 1.5- by 3-inch honey-colored fragment earlier this month in Rome at the International Association for Coptic Studies.

King was quick to add this discovered text "does not, however, provide evidence that the historical Jesus was married," she wrote in a draft of her analysis of the fragment set to appear in the January edition of Harvard Theological Review.

"This fragment, this new piece of papyrus evidence, does not prove that (Jesus) was married, nor does it prove that he was not married,” King said in a conference call with reporters earlier in the month. “The earliest reliable historical tradition is completely silent on that.

“So we're in the same position we were before it was found,” she continued. “We don't know if he was married or not."

In the accounts of Jesus' life in the Bible, there is no mention of his marital status, while the accounts do mention Jesus' mother, father and siblings.

Opinion: What fascination with Jesus’ “wife” tells us

The four Gospels – Matthew, Mark, Luke and John – tell the story of Jesus' birth and early childhood then skip to his short, three-year ministry before detailing his death and resurrection.

In its Friday editorial, the Vatican newspaper took aim at what it said was a media campaign to spread word of the papyrus despite questions about its authenticity.

“American media outlets had been alerted, a preventive press conference by Karen L. King held to prepare a global scoop which was immediately put into question by the experts,” the paper said.

- CNN"s Hada Messia contributed reporting from Rome

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Christianity • Vatican

soundoff (2,552 Responses)
  1. Michael

    And this, more than anything, tells me it is not a fake. =)

    September 30, 2012 at 12:28 pm |
  2. Life Eternal

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    -John 14:6

    September 30, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Reality

      All of John's Gospel is of questionable historic value.

      To wit:

      From Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, Rabbi Jesus,

      "Conventionally, scholarship has accorded priority to the first three gospels in historical work on Jesus, putting progressively less credence in works of late date. John's Gospel for example is routinely dismissed as a source......

      From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John#Authorship

      "Since "the higher criticism" of the 19th century, some historians have largely rejected the gospel of John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus.[3][4] "[M]ost commentators regard the work as anonymous,"[5] and date it to 90-100."

      "The authorship has been disputed since at least the second century, with mainstream Christianity believing that the author is John the Apostle, son of Zebedee. Modern experts usually consider the author to be an unknown non-eyewitness, though many apologetic Christian scholars still hold to the conservative Johannine view that ascribes authorship to John the Apostle."

      And from Professor Gerd Ludemann, in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416,

      "Anyone looking for the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John. "

      See also http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html

      September 30, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • End Religion

      "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit Not a nasty, dirty wet hole, filled with the ends of earth worms and an ozzy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole, with nothing to sit down on or to eat; it was a hobbit hole, and that means comfort."

      From the book of Bilbo, 1:1

      September 30, 2012 at 12:40 pm |
  3. Last Day

    Vatican,

    Will you be such enemies of Jesus (Matthew 7/21-23)

    or thus true followers of the Son of Man (John 6/27, 40-45)

    in this most critical Third and Last Day (=Millennium) now? (John 6/40)

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com

    UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES

    September 30, 2012 at 11:43 am |
  4. Rod McCorley

    Hmmmm. While we're at it, has anyone seen a comprehensive translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls? I wonder why not? Who controls them anyway? And how long ago were they discovered that we don't have an adequate interpretation of what they say?

    September 30, 2012 at 11:35 am |
  5. Cjs

    Of course the Vatican calls it a fake. They should know since they decided which books would be the bible 300 plus years after Jesus supposedly existed. Plus a married Jesus contradicts their stance, so they stand to lose their sheeple.

    September 30, 2012 at 11:09 am |
  6. KeninTexas

    A comment from the Vatican’s newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano "unlike so many other items presented at the conference, the papyrus was not discovered in the process of excavation but came from an antiquarian market. Such an object demands that numerous precautions be taken to establish its reliability and exclude the possibility of forgery".
    If this was found in a antique market, there is good reason to be wary of it's authenticity. Put it to tests and find out for sure if it's really authentic before jumping on the bandwagon one way or the other.

    September 30, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • Realist

      I believe we need to look at the entire bible as a forgery.. Remember how the new testament was concocted – cut/paste/add. Agenda's destroy valuable history.

      September 30, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • KeninTexas

      Realist said "I believe we need to look at the entire bible as a forgery.. Remember how the new testament was concocted – cut/paste/add. Agenda's destroy valuable history." You should research what went into the process of putting together the Bible. It's not just a cut and paste as you think. It took a lot of time and effort. It's pretty interesting, look at it yourself.

      September 30, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • Reality

      Taking a hard look at the bible and the followers of – a summary:

      1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

      “New Torah For Modern Minds

      Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.)

      The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “

      2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

      The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

      earlychristianwritings.com/

      For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

      Current RCC problems:

      Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

      2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

      Current problems:
      Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

      September 30, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
  7. myway

    They used to call it heresy. I guess the current term is "fake".

    September 30, 2012 at 10:57 am |
  8. Progress!

    So, a church that begs money for the poor (trapped in that condition due to birth control prohibitions) while the pope is surrounded by trappings of wealth that Trump would find ostentatious is crying 'fake!'. Seems legit.

    September 30, 2012 at 10:23 am |
    • Reality

      The reality of se-x, contraception and STD/HIV control: – from a guy who enjoys intelligent se-x-

      Note: Some words hyphenated to defeat an obvious word filter. ...

      The Brutal Effects of Stupidity:

      : The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill (8.7% actual failure rate) and male con-dom (17.4% actual failure rate) have led to the large rate of abortions and S-TDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or co-ndoms properly and/or use safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.- Failure rate statistics provided by the Gut-tmacher Inst-itute. Unfortunately they do not give the statistics for doubling up i.e. using a combination of the Pill and a condom.

      Added information before making your next move:

      from the CDC-2006

      "Se-xually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain S-TDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psy-ch-ological consequences of S-TDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs as-sociated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."

      And from:

      Consumer Reports, January, 2012

      "Yes, or-al se-x is se-x, and it can boost cancer risk-

      Here's a crucial message for teens (and all se-xually active "post-teeners": Or-al se-x carries many of the same risks as va-ginal se-x, including human papilloma virus, or HPV. And HPV may now be overtaking tobacco as the leading cause of or-al cancers in America in people under age 50.

      "Adolescents don’t think or-al se-x is something to worry about," said Bonnie Halpern-Felsher professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. "They view it as a way to have intimacy without having 's-ex.'" (It should be called the Bill Clinton Syndrome !!)

      Obviously, political leaders in both parties, Planned Parenthood, parents, the "stupid part of the USA" and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts.

      The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by "Perfect use":

      – (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)- RCC approved
      – (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)

      Followed by:

      One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
      Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
      The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
      Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
      IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
      Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)- RCC approved
      Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)- RCC approved
      Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)- RCC approved

      Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

      September 30, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
  9. lbpaulina

    This post is very badly organized. Are we a country of high advanced technology? Where the hxck do our comments go?
    Why CNN doesn't resume, why, etc? They are too lazy. I won't write anymore.

    September 30, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Reality

      The moderators of this blog have set up a secret forbidden word filter which unfortunately not only will delete or put your comment in the dreaded "waiting for moderation" category but also will do the same to words having fragments of these words. For example, "t-it" is in the set but the filter will also pick up words like Hitt-ite, t-itle, beati-tude, practi-tioner and const-tution. Then there are words like "an-al" thereby flagging words like an-alysis and "c-um" flagging acc-umulate or doc-ument. And there is also "r-a-pe", “a-pe” and “gra-pe”, "s-ex", and "hom-ose-xual". You would think that the moderators would have corrected this by now considering the number of times this has been commented on but they have not. To be safe, I typically add hyphens in any word that said filter might judge "of-fensive".

      • Make sure the web address does not have any forbidden word or fragment.

      Sum Dude routinely updates the list of forbidden words/fragments.

      Two of the most filtered words are those containing the fragments "t-it" and "c-um". To quickly check your comments for these fragments, click on "Edit" on the Tool Bar and then "Find" on the menu. Add a fragment (without hyphens) one at a time in the "Find" slot and the offending fragment will be highlighted in your comments before you hit the Post button. Hyphenate the fragment(s) and then hit Post. And remember more than one full web address will also gain a "Waiting for Moderation".
      Zeb’s alphabetical listing

      o “bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN "awaiting moderation" filter:
      Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
      You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
      --–
      ar-se.....as in Car-se, etc.
      ba-stard
      co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, lubco-ck, etc.
      co-on.....as in rac-oon, coc-oon, etc.
      cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
      cu-nt.....as in Scu-ntthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
      do-uche
      ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
      ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, etc.
      fu-ck......!
      ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
      ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
      jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
      ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
      ji-sm
      koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
      nip-ple
      pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
      pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
      ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
      se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
      sh-@t.....but shat is okay – don't use the @ symbol there.
      sh-it
      sl-ut
      sn-atch
      sp-ic.....as in disp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
      ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
      tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
      va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
      who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
      wt-f....also!!!!!!!

      There are more, some of them considered "racist", so do not assume that this list is complete.
      -–
      Allowed words / not blocked at all:
      anal
      anus
      ass
      boob
      crap
      damn
      execute
      hell
      kill
      masturbation
      murder
      penis
      pubic
      raping (ra-pe is not ok)
      shat (sh-@t is not ok)
      sphincter
      testes
      testicles

      The CNN / WordPress filter also filters your EMAIL address and NAME as well – so you might want to check those.

      September 30, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • End Religion

      u can take "pis" off your list

      September 30, 2012 at 1:34 pm |
  10. Romans 6 23

    For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    September 30, 2012 at 9:26 am |
    • Realist

      how cute. Do you have school tomorrow?

      September 30, 2012 at 9:29 am |
    • End Religion

      proof of eternal life in jesus christ our lord: http://goo.gl/UxPi

      September 30, 2012 at 1:03 pm |
  11. Dash

    The early Christians aka the Gnostic Christians believe Jesus was indeed married to Mary Madgalene. It wasn't pure coincidence that Jesus's first miracle was turning water into wine at his own wedding.

    September 30, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • Realist

      hey, jesus had a d-ck.

      September 30, 2012 at 9:30 am |
    • KeninTexas

      You say Jesus was at his own wedding at Cana? Would you list the source of your proof so we can all see it?

      September 30, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • Realist

      problem is that the bible as a whole, is not a reliable source.

      September 30, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • End Religion

      All religion is a fraud. If you suffer from a brand of this delusion, it is no less crazy than any other. There was no jesus, son of the imaginary god. There was no jesus wedding. There was no wife of jesus. The various brands of religion are simply arguing over the minutiae of their delusion. Your time could be better spent.

      September 30, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
  12. Realist

    It's a piece of paper written in primitive times, just as the bible was. What we really need to do is to tax all religions, end all grants (tax money we give them) and to start charging them property tax. Make them pay their fair share instead of stealing from us.

    Religions are old and primitive in their believes that modern religionist have to make excuses for their many errors.Tell religions to grow up and to stop pretending they are a bunch of kids making up fantastic stories and tree house rules.

    September 30, 2012 at 9:23 am |
    • Reality

      There are different opinions as to what a religion really is or what a non-profit is and therefore all non-profits should file Form 990's. At the moment, religious groups are exempt. To be fair therefore, there should be no tax-exemptions for any group and that includes the Democratic and Republican Parties. Faith and community initiative grant monies should also be cancelled and there should also be no tax deductions for contributions made to charities and/or non-profits.

      September 30, 2012 at 12:21 pm |
  13. saggyroy

    They are probably nostalgic for the good old days when they could just put the person on the rack, iron maiden, or the wheel to prove it was a fake.

    September 30, 2012 at 9:08 am |
    • An Inquistor

      Ah! The good old days!

      September 30, 2012 at 9:19 am |
  14. MalcomR

    Typical. It's fake for "substantial reasons". I.e. no real evidence, but it's counter to our doctrine. Not that it matters. It's like arguing over whether a Bigfoot hair sample is fake or not. Ha!

    September 30, 2012 at 7:58 am |
    • Bigfoot

      If you think my feet are big, you should see the size of my balls.

      September 30, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
  15. jasrhatz

    I think the church is afraid of what may be the truth. the church has spent a millinum subjugating our very soul. the church needs to be purged soon there will be such a roar from the inside that tru reform will follow,

    September 30, 2012 at 7:51 am |
    • MalcomR

      Yes. Let the blood-letting begin.

      Idiots.

      September 30, 2012 at 7:59 am |
    • Realist

      It wouldn't look good for the pope and bishops knowing their jesus wasn't gay like them.

      September 30, 2012 at 9:25 am |
  16. AvdBerg

    Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6) and neither is there salvation in any other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12).

    The Jesus figure portrayed in the above article is not the true and living God that came into this world in the name of Jesus Christ to deliver people from the spirit of this world (John 17:16; 1 John 5:4)..

    Please read the article ‘Repent’, listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca and learn what it means. It signifies a lot more than what by nature you have been made to believe.

    Are those that are referred to as ‘Christians’ by the media really the followers of Jesus Christ or do they follow after a false Christ (Matthew 24:24; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; GaL.4:8) and why is there so much division amongst religions? Please read on.

    The above mentioned article by Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi is a good example how distorted things have become in society with the media industry as the main culprit.

    They are spiritually blind and separated from the true and living God and the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:15).

    In order for anyone to be able to understand the Word of God they must repent and turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God (Acts 26:18). Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi do not know what spirit they are of (Luke 9:55).

    The Word of God is not to be interpreted (2 Peter 1:20) and it is the discerner of every thought and intent of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

    The local media, including CNN, Fox and your local TV stations and newspapers are a very important element of social and political behavior, as society is shaped by what it sees, hears and reads and it is conditioned by the events that influence the mind of every person. You reap what you sow.

    To allow anyone to be directed by public opinion is dangerous because most public opinion is the view of the media. If the media does not like something, their bias taints information getting to the public, and this forms public opinion. Public opinion is never based on research and facts. The public uses the media for its sole source of information and for this reason social behavior will continue to deteriorate and wax worse and worse (2 Timothy 3:13).

    For a better understanding of the role of the media we invite you to read the articles ‘Influence of the Media’ and ‘CNN Belief Blog – Sign of the Times’, listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

    The media does not provide accurate information on ‘Religion’ as it continues to ignore the truth and the history of deceptions (John 14:17). They only report how they want you to hear things. They have created the big chasm that now exists without offering any solutions.

    Consider the truth about Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, Judaism, Evangelicals and Christianity and all other religions and ask yourself the following question.

    Are so-called Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, Israelites and Evangelicals and all those that call themselves ‘Christians’ followers of the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Word of God, or do they follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ (Matthew 24:24; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8)?

    For a better understanding of the history of Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, Christianity, and Judaism and its spread throughout the world, we invite you to read the articles ‘The Mystery Babylon’, ‘Can Christianity or Any Other Religion Save You?’, ‘World History and Developments in the Middle East’ and ‘Clash of Civilizations’, listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

    Mitt Romney’s and Barack Obama’s faith does not stand in the teachings of Christ but rather in an image of the spirit and the god of this world and a false Christ (Matthew 24:24; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8).

    For a better understanding of the history of the Mormon Church and Mitt Romney’s quest for the Presidency of the USA, we invite you to read the articles ‘Mormon Church – Cult and Spiritual Harlot’ and ‘Barack Obama – President of the United States of America’, listed on our website.

    All of the other pages and articles listed on our website explain how and by whom this whole world has been deceived as confirmed in Revelation 12:9.

    But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man (1 Cor 2:15).

    Seek, and ye shall find (Matthew 7:7).

    September 30, 2012 at 6:04 am |
    • John

      Why are you quoting the Bible? Quoting the Bible to affirm the truth of what is in the Bible is completely illogical.

      September 30, 2012 at 7:20 am |
    • Barbara Young

      You have much to learn grass hopper.

      September 30, 2012 at 7:26 am |
    • Realist

      quoting the bible proves nothing..

      September 30, 2012 at 9:26 am |
    • mama kindless

      The bible is political sales literature at best. And revelation?? Please. That St John the dopehead was high as a kite when he wrote that mess. My goodness.

      September 30, 2012 at 11:28 am |
  17. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    September 30, 2012 at 6:02 am |
    • MalcomR

      Hi there! How's it going?

      September 30, 2012 at 8:02 am |
    • Tax Damned Churches NOW

      Yeah – it changed you from perplexed to delusional

      September 30, 2012 at 8:30 am |
    • Realist

      I prayed you'd go away, proof prayers don't work.

      September 30, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent truths is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent truths, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
      by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
      .

      September 30, 2012 at 11:28 am |
  18. Last Day

    Vatican,

    Will you be such enemies of Jesus (Matthew 7/21-23)
    or thus true followers of Son of Man (John 6/27, 40-45)
    in this most critical Third and Last Day (=Millennium) now? (John 6/40)

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com
    UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES

    September 30, 2012 at 3:17 am |
    • Tax Damned Churches NOW

      ... or will you live in the real world where you can have personal responsibility, ethics, and charity without ANY misogynistic, bigoted, anti-science religion?

      September 30, 2012 at 8:33 am |
    • Realist

      I agree, make these leaches pay their fair share of taxes.

      September 30, 2012 at 9:27 am |
  19. AngelMoroni

    The only PROphet who has not taken a wife is Joe Smith .... but his followers sure made up for it 😉

    September 30, 2012 at 1:56 am |
    • Huh?

      Huh? 27!!!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

      September 30, 2012 at 2:19 am |
    • Wrenn_NYC

      Joe was married. He had over 40 'wives' but one – Emma Hale – his first wife was the one he was legally married to – before he founded the religion.

      Do at least SOME research. Otherwise you just look foolish.

      September 30, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • Wrenn_NYC

      Joseph Smith was married. He had over 40 'wives' but one – Emma Hale – his first wife was the one he was legally married to – before he founded the religion.

      Do at least SOME research. Otherwise you just look foolish.

      September 30, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • Joseph Smith

      I was married but in the closet...

      homosexuality is not mentioned in the three uniquely Mormon religious texts which are considered inspired by God and authoritative: the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants (D&C), or the Pearl of Great Price . 1

      D. Michael Quinn is gay, an ex-member of the church, and ex-professor of history at Brigham Young University. He was excommunicated in 1993. Now an independent researcher, he has suggested that Joseph Smith, founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), was relatively accepting of gay and lesbian relationships. 2 He published a book titled: "Same-sex Dynamics among Nineteenth-Century Americans – a Mormon Example." in 1996. In 2001, it was popular enough to be printed in paperback. 3

      According to Quinn, early Mormons endorsed physical and emotional intimacy between gays and lesbians. Two examples were:
      - Evan Stephens (1854-1930), director of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and author of many church hymns never married. However, he maintained intense friendships with several young men who lived with him and were his traveling companions at different times.

      - Joseph F. Smith (1899-1964) was a Church Patriarch and allegedly a homosexual. While an instructor at the University of Utah, he allegedly had a homosexual relationship with a student. He later allegedly became sexually involved with another young Mormon male.

      Quinn concluded that the church tolerated homoeroticism until the mid-1950s. 3

      1 – Cindy LeFevre, "homophobia as a Weapon of Patriarchy", 1993 Affirmation Conference. Online at: affirmation.org/
      3 – D. Michael Quinn, "Same-sex Dynamics among Nineteenth-Century Americans: A Mormon Example," University of Illinois Press, (1996) A book review is available at: press.uillinois.edu/s The book can be ordered from: press.uillinois.edu/

      September 30, 2012 at 1:37 pm |
  20. f4xtrafn

    What else can the Vatican be expected to say. They are the biggest stakeholders and have the most to lose if that fragment is real. The silliness of celibacy for priests would be based on a lie. Although with so many priests' predisposition to pedophylia and/or the "gay" way, it's quite a stretch to call them celibate. Although if true, it may also draw into question the "rising" from the dead. But then, crusifixion was not always meant as a death penalty, many others survived.

    September 30, 2012 at 12:44 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.