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My Take: The five biggest misconceptions about secularism
Misunderstandings about secularists and secularism do a disservice to America, says Jacques Berlinerblau.
October 6th, 2012
10:00 PM ET

My Take: The five biggest misconceptions about secularism

By Jacques Berlinerblau, Special to CNN

Editor’s note: Jacques Berlinerblau is associate professor of Jewish Civilization at Georgetown University. His book, How to Be Secular: A Call to Arms for Religious Freedom has just been released.

As far as the Republicans are concerned, President Barack Obama is secularism’s go-to guy in Washington. Newt Gingrich refers to him as a “secular-socialist.” Mitt Romney charges that his opponent advocates a “secular agenda.” And Rick Santorum frets that Obama is imposing “secular values” on “people of faith.”

The president, however, seems not to have received the whole him-being-a-secularist memo. American secularists have thrown up their hands in frustration over his supersizing of George W. Bush’s Office of Faith-based and Community Initiatives. They roll their eyes at his God talk. As for his recent call for days of “prayer and remembrance” to commemorate 9/11, well, would the late Rev. Jerry Falwell have done it any differently?

After spending years trying to sequence the genome of American secularism, I have arrived at a sobering conclusion: no -ism is as misunderstood as this one. All of which is bad for secularists, secularism and America. Let’s look at some of the biggest misconceptions out there:

1. Secularist: Just another word for atheist: Not true! But that doesn’t mean there is any thing wrong with nonbelievers. Nor does it mean that secularists and atheists don’t share scads of objectives in common (e.g., opposing religious establishment, securing freedom from religion, defending free expression).

American secularism’s roots can be traced to Christian political philosophy (yes, you read that correctly). Its main architects were Protestant thinkers like Martin Luther, Roger Williams, John Locke and Thomas Jefferson.

What evolved was a political worldview deeply suspicious of entanglements between what these gentlemen called “the civil and ecclesiastical authorities.” They asked: “How can we configure our government so that citizens of different religious groups may all live in equality, peace and order?”

Atheists, by contrast, posit the nonexistence of God(s) and proceed to explore the implications of that intriguing premise. Let’s put it this way: While nearly all atheists in America are secularists, not all secularists are atheists. In fact most secularists are not atheists — but we are getting ahead of ourselves.

2. Secularism simply means total separation of church and state: Separationism is, undeniably, a form of secularism. But not the only form. Secularists need to accept this, if only because more and more state and federal governments are giving separationism the old heave-ho.

As conservative Christians like to point out, the Constitution never mentions separationism. That idea surfaces in Thomas Jefferson’s 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists in which he lauded “a wall of separation between Church & State.” It was not, however, until about a century and a half later that the wall was actually built. This occurred in a series of stunning Supreme Court decisions that briskly evicted religion from public schools and spaces.

The separationist worldview crested in the 1960s and 1970s. When John F. Kennedy talked about a country where the “separation of church and state is absolute,” he articulated post-World War II liberalism’s dream. Or delusion. Even Supreme Court justices whose decisions helped erect  Jefferson’s Wall conceded that total separation is impossible to attain.

That is because the United States is historically and culturally Christian. We rest on Sundays. We close federal offices on Christmas. We put the word “God” on our coinage. Most citizens are believers. The state cannot logically “separate” from them. As Justice William Douglas - no foe of secularism - once remarked, total separation would mandate that, “Municipalities would not be permitted to render police or fire protection to religious groups.”

Government and religious citizenry are entangled. This doesn’t mean we should endorse those entanglements. Rather, we must recognize separationist secularism as something extraordinarily difficult to achieve.

3. Secularism is for Democrats: This was increasingly true with each passing decade from the 1960s forward. But after John Kerry’s debilitating loss to George W. Bush in 2004, all of that changed. Party strategists now recognized the power of the so-called “values voters” — the conservative Christians whose energy and activism propelled the incumbent to his second term.

A few months before Kerry’s defeat, an obscure state senator named Barack Obama blew the roof off the 2004 Democratic National Convention with a speech in which he intoned: “We worship an awesome God in the Blue States.” It was a harbinger of things to come. By the 2006 midterms, stories leaked about Democratic consultants who advised candidates never to say “separation of church and state” on the stump.

By 2008, John Edwards and Hillary Clinton were Bible-thumpin’ with aplomb. Presidential candidate Obama, for his part, was promising to renovate George W. Bush’s faith-based Office. Separationist secularism, long in decline, was about to be rolled. What replaced it? Read on.

4. Secularists don’t make accommodations: Although few have noticed it, the Democrats have pivoted from “separation” to “accommodation.” This means the government can fund or assist religion; it just can’t play favorites. Thus, all religions are equal in the eyes of the faith-friendly state.

Is this approach secular? The jury is still out. Accommodation does respect the First Amendment principle of refraining from federal establishment of religion.

Consider the White House faith-based office. In theory, it funds all religious groups who provide social services (hence no establishment). In practice, however, things have not worked out so well (see complaints against both the Bush and Obama offices). Further, accommodation doesn’t really accommodate or take into account nonbelieving citizens.

5. Secularists are anti-religious: In recent years some have made secularism into a synonym for godlessness, possibly because a few extreme atheist groups have taken to calling themselves “secular.” Yet the idea that believers cannot be secular is incorrect and politically disastrous.

Secularism, as noted above, was born of Christian thought. Historically, its greatest champions have been those opposed to state support of one church or religious institution, such as Baptists, Protestant dissenters, and minorities including Jews, Catholics, Sikhs and others.

Secularism’s mission is to maximize freedom of and freedom from religion. But unless we start speaking of it in precise terms, and bringing secular believers and nonbelievers into coalition, it won’t be able to render this service to America.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jacques Berlinerblau.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Atheism • Church and state • Courts • Politics

soundoff (1,517 Responses)
  1. Phillip Neff

    Gregg, Yes if religion rules it will enforce a morality on its citizens, history bears that out, however communism, the full embodiment of secular atheism killed more in 50 years then the whole of religious history is responsible for. As well as enforced sever and progressive moralities on more then two thirds of the worlds population. Oh, and that can be found in the history books...

    October 7, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • Anon

      Atheist ≠ Communist.
      Get that through your thick-headed religious skull.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Gregg

      Hitler thought he was doing gods work. nice try

      October 7, 2012 at 5:06 pm |
    • mama kindless

      OK this appears to be a reply. I think Phillip's original post is not far before this.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:06 pm |
    • drbob66

      Religion does not force moralism on the people, it forces their own moralism on the people regardless of what the people believe. This is oppression, the opposite of values and the opposite of freedom.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:34 pm |
    • Phillip Neff

      Anon, History bears out all to clearly that Communist were atheist. While not all atheist are communist that is not the context of my point. When atheist run the government they have proven capable of mass killings on a scale of unmatched horror unequaled to anything blamed on religion. Why? No bases for morality!

      October 7, 2012 at 5:53 pm |
    • Anon

      What a bunch of bollocks.

      October 7, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • Damocles

      @Phillip

      Forced morality? Is that what you really want? What happens when the morals change?

      October 7, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • End Religion

      Morality: Using empathy as a guide for human interaction. AKA, "treat others the way you want to be treated" and "put yourself in my shoes".

      Karen Wynn of Yale has a study showing even babies have an idea of wrong versus right. Neuroscientist Christian Keysers has done research to show that the brain of those who see others receiving pain themselves have similar neurological responses. There is a curve to empathy; some feel it more than others. But it certainly doesn't come from a hateful book about imaginary people.

      October 7, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • Bear

      @Phillip: "Anon, History bears out all to clearly that Communist were atheist."

      That would be really interesting if it were true, but it is not. Yes, a lot of Communist regimes were atheistic, but being an atheist is not a prerequisite for Communism and there are religious Communists. In fact, there is a whole branch of the philosophy called "religious communism," which is a form of communism centered on religious principles.

      October 7, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
  2. Anon

    If Christians actually read their bibles with reading comprehension and critical thinking, there would be more non-believers.
    David Fitzgerald, Ten Christian Myths That Shows Jesus Never Existed At All
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80BeyRYlMSQ

    October 7, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
    • End Religion

      thx for posting

      October 7, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
  3. therealpeace2all

    Reblogged this on peace2alldotme.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
  4. Dan

    If secularists and atheists weren't arrogant jerks they'd get more support.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • MDAT

      If you weren't hate filled about them.What about compassion?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Athy

      Support from who exactly?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Dan

      I'm not hate filled about anyone. Hate != acknowledging they are an arrogant jerk. A is A.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • Anon

      Likewise, go take a good look at yourself in the mirror.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • MDAT

      And how do you know we are?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • Dan

      Read the posts on this blog

      October 7, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • truth be trolled

      "I'm not hate filled about anyone. Hate != acknowledging they are an arrogant jerk. A is A."

      I think I smell a disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. "writer".

      October 7, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • NoTheism

      @Dan, please explain to me how it is that you think that atheists are the arrogant ones when it's religious people that are the ones that believe they have a god on their side; they know what happens after death; they tell us that we're sinners (whatever that means); and so on... and you say that atheists are arrogant.
      Yes, I am an arrogant atheist because I can prove to you that you have no good argument that can properly justify belief in a deity. I am an arrogant atheist because I believe that doing good is done for its own sake, and not for an eternal reward in an afterlife. I am an arrogant atheist because I am tired of religious bigotry.
      I am an arrogant atheist because you say that I am.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
    • Gregg

      Religious people become arrogant with their way life since they actually beleive they are working for a god, however– a false one.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
    • End Religion

      there is no higher arrogance than prayer to a god. This makes atheists less arrogant than any person in the history of the planet who has prayed.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:02 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I always find it ironic when christians call atheists "arrogant," as if there's nothing arrogant about thinking that a being capable of creating the universe is reading their every thought and has made a special paradise where they can live forever if they just say they like him best and that they're sorry for being bad.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
    • Jimmy Joe Jim Bob

      Hey, Dan, Sorry to bother you while you're reveling in your private Idaho, or matrix, or what have you...Dan? Hello?

      Here's a note from one of your buddies (look below):

      "I wish USA was like Iran killin those who insult their state religion – that way atheists would have been executed = DREAM"

      October 7, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Dan

      NoTheism – you correctly point out a problem I have with many Christians. They believe they can do what they want, so long as they ask for forgiveness afterwards, all the while condemning the lifestyle of others. They think they know for certain what lies beyond, and that they are no doubt going to heaven while those that hold different beliefs are undoubtedly going to hell. I vehemently disagree with this kind of Christian. I do not know for certain that there is a God, but I have faith. I do not know what will become of me after death, as a sinner I can only hope for God's mercy. I do not condemn the sins of others because I am a sinner myself. I go to Church to exercise my own personal religious beliefs, not for some kind of political purpose.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:07 pm |
    • Kevin

      We atheists have every right to be arrogant, since we're the only ones correct on the subject.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      And thinking you have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe is not arrogant?

      October 7, 2012 at 5:15 pm |
    • Kevin

      Better listen up there might be a bit about 'blessed are the big-nosed'.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Listen! I said one more time...mate and I'll take you to the f*king cleaners.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:33 pm |
  5. shawbrooke

    It's true that protestant dissenters believe in the separation of church and state, meaning that the government should be separately organized from the church and treat all faiths equally. But today, secularism usually means virulent, evangelistic anti faith and anti people of faith. Our schools made the switch in definition. Those who want a more moderate definition of secular must start with the schools first, because schools are the venue where the definition got changed.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • no

      So...in other words, you read the headline, skipped the article and went straight to the comments section.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Apparently you equate not pushing your faith in schools as virulently anti-faith. Frankly, I find the schools quite lax in allowing various teachers to freely express their faith preferences. Practicing/expressing faith in schools should be strictly personal or among students. Any teacher involvement implies administrative level support of that faith.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
  6. Phillip Neff

    One of the many goals of classic liberalism was an idea that the state ran totally separate from the church, a separatist goal I favor most clearly. But that was when one of the other stated goals of liberalism was the freedom of an intrusive government. The two goals were congruent, even symbiotic. However; when social engineering became the new goal of modern liberalism, intrusive action on freeman's lives ensued, those two goals have now become toxic. ie. FDA, Public Schools, Social Security, Welfare, Subsidized "fill in the blank", Medical Care, & Obama Care all of which are now the battlegrounds of religion & state fights. If you removed the social engineering you restore the balance that was once had, but as we all know "we are all socialist now." As a man of religion I must hold the precarious balance of not favoring a Church controlled State nor a State controlled Church. A unattainable balance in this highly intrusive socialist state that makes laws that clearly rob me of my religious beliefs, places me in compromising situations against my government, fellow free citizens, family and even myself. This leads me to the conclusion that the original goals and ideas of our founding fathers have been lost and the new progressive voices of social engineering have conquered the day. The whole notion that their is an existing separation between state & religion is totally contrived, the state does tell in many instances the religion what it must do or not do. So in essence, separatism has failed, the state has crossed the line and religion is on the ropes.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:32 pm |
    • Jimmy Joe Jim Bob

      You started with a delusion: your belief in fairy tales. You elevated that belief into a machine that tries to enforce morality through social engineering. You are a blind hypocrite. What you believe is irrelevant. You are free to believe what you like, just don't try shoving you delusional morality upon the rest of us. It's really quite simple. Even a simpleton should be able to grasp that, but apparently you failed.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • Phillip Neff

      No, religion has not failed, it will be here long after the "Great experiment" is just history, what has failed is our idealistic dreams of true freedom, that you can be an atheist and I can be an "disillusionary" religious person and live without either governing each others beliefs.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • Phillip Neff

      In a free society, I can create my own relevance...

      October 7, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • Gregg

      So what you are saying is belonging to a religion has pretty much confused you, glad I don't belong to a silly religion. Yea. and they used to burn witches too.Religion is a barboric group. If you are in control you will soon exterminate women who have an abortion. Sounds more like a discriminative evil cult.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • Phillip Neff

      Jimmy Joe Jim Bob, Did you even understand what I wrote? Your reply shows you did not even began to.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • Jimmy Joe Jim Bob

      Phillip, your diatribe is so chock full of bad grammar and spelling, not to mention obtuse reasoning, that it's unlikely that anyone not wearing a tinfoil chapeau would grasp your non sequitur chaining together of random, incoherent statements.

      Paying tribute to my four fathers; Jimmy, Joe, Jim and Bob with every post.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • mama kindless

      Phillip Neff wrote: ". . .the new goal of modern liberalism, intrusive action on freeman's lives ensued . . ."

      I did find your post very interesting, Phillip. But with regard to what I copied from your post above, how would you relate that to the ongoing battle on a woman's right to govern her own body?

      October 7, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • Phillip Neff

      Hey Jimmy Joe Jim Bob, When is anyone's post grammatical??? Yes I tend to ramble but I do have a logical conclusion, simple stated... Freedom is lost when Secularism embraced the progressive beliefs of Social Engineering!

      October 7, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • mama kindless

      You need to expand more, Phillip on "Social Engineering" so we understand the context in which you are using that term.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I found Phillip's comment to be rather difficult to grasp, but the basic meaning I gathered was that he is angry that his beliefs don't get precedence over the beliefs of others. I also suspect that he has no real idea about the actual foundation of this nation, or the meaning of socialism. I suspect Phillip simply wishes that he had the right to force his beliefs on others and to not pay taxes. Pretty basic Tea Party stuff, though couched in flowery, obtuse language.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Phillip, your diatribe is so chock full of bad grammar and spelling, not to mention obtuse reasoning, that it's unlikely that anyone not wearing a tinfoil chapeau would grasp your non sequitur chaining together of random, incoherent statements. Paying tribute to my four fathers; Jimmy, Joe, Jim and Bob with every post."

      jjjb: that was the funniest thing i've read in weeks! Thanks for choosing "chapeau", i think it made all the difference.

      Phil, religion is on the ropes, and rightly so. The world has suffered it long enough.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:16 pm |
    • Phillip Neff

      tallulah13, Posting can be fun, especially when you cloak things... I'm More then just a tea partier, I'm a Freedom Loving American who is not upset but rather accepting the reality of the way things are, their are many paradox's to be had in our past and current systems of government. Seeing clearly through them is the aim, so as to hopefully steer this country to what is best for all, then what is best for a minority.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • Phillip Neff

      Momma,
      Social Engineering is things like FDA, Public Schools, Social Security, Welfare, Subsidized "fill in the blank", Medical Care, & Obama Care. Not to say that these have not good or even great intentions or results, but that these in practice tend to rob man of his freedom.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Phillip, it is not your place to decide what is "best for everybody". You have no idea what is "best for everybody"; like a spoiled child you have only your own list of personal wants.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
  7. Peaceful Muslim

    Allah is the only god.
    All evil christians should be stoned to death.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • calvinkleinism source of filthymormonundergarmentism.

      Absurdity of pagan foot-long Ron Jeremy dog. NO DOGS. Path of triple abdullah absolute truth.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Gregg

      LOL – how peacefull of you , can I join in - The world will evolve when ALL religious people exterminate each other.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
  8. Peaceful Christian

    America was bankrupted by these corrupted christians and pedo pastors.
    Let's vote for the Holy Mormon and see what happens.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • old ben

      Clearly you are joking.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • David

      If I have to have more than one wife, I'm not voting for him.

      One is too many!

      October 7, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
  9. Gregg

    People who grasp to a religion are the true non believers

    October 7, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
  10. Theen Allah Fat Mullah (the Original Hinduism Source.......)

    s k y -l -r z m is a movement toward modernization of Fat Mullahs, goons.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
  11. Spirit

    ***Religion is nothing more than a lifestyle, it has nothing to do with the true creator and everything to do with belonging to a group of people who discriminate. When people pray, each one of them has a depiction of what god looks like and each one of these gods looks different and mostly referred to as him. Praying to an idol you created in your head is just that, If I tell you god looks like a rock, you will see a rock when you pray, If I tell you Jesus is standing next to god you will picture a man named Jesus standing next to a rock, the rock you create in your head is just in your head – no 2 rocks look the same because you cannot see what's in another persons mind, god is an idol in your own mind that you talk to, now that is just plain silly. I was just kidding that god looks like a rock, god actually looks like ? see what I mean !

    October 7, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
  12. I hate Atheists ForEver

    I wish USA was like Iran killin those who insult their state religion – that way atheists would have been executed = DREAM

    October 7, 2012 at 4:18 pm |
    • old ben

      Well too bad for you – it wasn't set up like that.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • MDAT

      Well you don't even have grammar.This is not a christian nation.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • Vinnie Vegas

      Nice try, troll.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • Peaceful Christian

      You are the reason why we should stay away from the freaking church.
      You guys are gullible, violent, and pedos.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
    • Lucky

      I read somewhere if you feed trolls,it's supposed to bring you good luck!

      October 7, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
    • Jimmy Joe Jim Bob

      Wow.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Ed

      Attaboy. Keep spreading the love of Christ. We feel your compassion.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • End Religion

      crisis center, what are up to, like 12 sock puppets now, all arguing against each other?

      October 7, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
  13. MDAT

    Christians need to hold it.We try and tell you That this nation is not Christian.We want freedom.We cannot deal with nutjobs.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:16 pm |
    • Evangelical Christian

      Christmas is a Federal/State Holiday
      Good Friday is a holiday in several states
      New Year's Day is a Federal/State holiday (First day of Pope Gregory's calendar)
      St. Valentine's Day (Christian)
      Halloween (All Saint's Eve)
      Sunday is a day of rest + blue laws in many parts of the nation
      God in our motto and money

      Now SHUT UP

      October 7, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • Calvin

      move to Russia

      October 7, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • MDAT

      It may be but You don't have to believe in it.Your intolerance is funny.We are not a Cristian nation

      October 7, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • mama kindless

      James Madison: ""During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superst!tion, bigotry, and persecution."—-A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the Virginia General Assembly, 1785"

      And we have the first amendment, of course.

      So I'll take the Const!tution, with its 1st amendment (showing that the founders clearly agreed upon separation of church and state), and you can keep you silly little holidays, OK, 'Evangelical Christian'?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:27 pm |
    • mama kindless

      A lot of good your silly list of holidays is going to do in a court of law, Evan. My goodness.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • Shelley

      This nation was founded on Judeo/Christian values, not religion. The founding fathers took great care to separate religion from politics.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Evangelical Christian:

      Christmas is a Federal/State Holiday – Christmas is now effectively a secular holiday
      Good Friday is a holiday in several states – Used to be a holiday in all or most states. Major retreat
      New Year's Day is a Federal/State holiday (First day of Pope Gregory's calendar) – Big deal, not religious, just reflects what happens when religion has too much power. Calendar needed corrections not really his anymore.
      St. Valentine's Day (Christian) – Not generally a holiday
      Halloween (All Saint's Eve) – Not a holiday. Right wing Christians loathe it
      Sunday is a day of rest + blue laws in many parts of the nation – Almost no blue laws left – used to be about universal. What a joke.

      God in our motto and money. Added to pledge and made motto Only because of McCarthy era politics. Was only on some money before than due to civil war politics.

      No mention God at all in our Consti.tution except in the first amendment to limit state involvement in religion.

      Now SHUT UP

      October 7, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @MarkFL

      You beat me to it. Well said.

      Peace...

      October 7, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
  14. NJ

    John 4:15

    October 7, 2012 at 4:16 pm |
    • I wonder

      NJ,

      So, is this explaining that you were in the John at 4:15, thus your post didn't appear until 4:16?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
  15. us_1776

    There is no god !

    Get over it.

    .

    October 7, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • Evangelical Christian

      Prove it. Nopp, you cannot; therefore God do exist.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • MDAT

      If god existed,how was he born?Also why has the Big bang been accepted?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • Evangelical Christian

      Jesus Christ is God.

      Millions of evidence that he existed besides the Bible.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • MDAT

      ?You don't have any scientific proof of god.And if you say the bible that is not evidence either.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • nope

      "Millions of evidence that he existed besides the Bible."

      Nope.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Millions of evidence? That doesn't even make sense.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • ...

      Prove your deity exists while all the other ones don't then. Oh, and don't quote a man-made book. Writing something in a book doesn't make it real. If someone duplicated the Bible today and just changed the names, you would be placing it in the Fiction section.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • Jimmy Joe Jim Bob

      Evangelical Imbecile: Prove that Batman doesn't exist, or Superman.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • Anon

      David Fitzgerald, Ten Christian Myths That Shows Jesus Never Existed At All
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80BeyRYlMSQ

      October 7, 2012 at 5:02 pm |
  16. Reality

    Only for the new members of this blog:->>>>>>

    Putting the final kibosh on religion and therefore putting an end to the word "secularism" .

    • There was probably no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • There was probably no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    A quick Google, Bing or Yahoo search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

    See p. 4 of the commentaries for definitions of secularism, Buddhism and Taoism.

    ===================================================================================

    October 7, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
  17. CS

    @therealpeace2all

    There are even more posts since then. I think she is back!!

    Je me tiendrai sur mon Heavensent faux et messages de blog Heavensent et voir si elle colle autour. Elle est une légende! Je ne veux pas lui faire peur. Regarde pour moi que 24 heures et Centre de crise Où est votre Dieu maintenant. Merci ami. CS.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @CS

      Ce sera un bon test. Et, soit dit en passant ... Je pense que " 'hs' est une femelle? Ou bien, ai-je été endoctrinés par tout l'ensemble de votre camel-toe, et de pièces de dame commentaires? LOL! 😀

      Peace ...

      October 7, 2012 at 4:16 pm |
  18. Evangelical Christian

    See, we're historically and culturally a Christian nation.
    Finally all non-Christians will keep their mouth shut now.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Snow

      “It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”

      October 7, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • Josie

      Sorry but I will not keep my mouth shut. If a Christian wants to pray in school, my children should be. If they are allowed religious holidays off from work, I should be allowed my own without questions, harrassment, or just plan not being allowed. If you want a church and able to meet in small groups outside of the church, again I have that right as well. Though we worship differently I have every right to practice, worship, and honor my Gods as you do as long as it is not illegal, etc. Now funny Catholics can give minors alcohol before they are of age...yet in my own faith you have to be 18 to join and 21 to use wine in a ceremony.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • tallulah13

      We have always been a secular nation. It was deliberately created as such by founding fathers who understood that religion had no place in government. Because religion is a separate ent!ty, people of all faiths, including no faith at all, are protected. If you don't wish to live in a secular nation, I suggest you move to one of the middle eastern theocracies, or perhaps Vatican City, where you can learn first hand about the freedoms enjoyed by those who live in nations ruled by "god."

      October 7, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Evangelical Christian

      I don't know if you are a 'troll' or 'poe' or both, but assuming you aren't:

      Nowhere in our U.S. Const itution does it say, nor even suggest anywhere the following: **

      *God
      *Lord God
      *God of the Bible
      *God of Abraham
      *God of the Christians
      *Christian
      *Christianity is the Official Religion of the U.S.
      *Only Christians are allowed to be in the U.S.
      *You must 'believe' in God to be in the U.S.(Christian God)
      *Jesus
      *Jesus Christ
      *Jesus Christ -our Lord and Savior
      *You must 'believe' in Jesus Christ as your Savior to be in the U.S.
      *Bible
      *Bible is the 'literal' Word of God
      *The U.S. Consti tution is based on the Bible, Jesus, God's Words, etc...
      *Christian Bible is 'the' Truth
      ***Christian Nation***
      ***The U.S. 'is' a Christian Nation***
      ***The U.S. 'Consti tution' is -Founded- on "Christian Principle's"
      *Atheists and Non-Christians aren't 'real' Americans and should be denied access to live in the U.S.
      *If you don't accept Jesus Christ as the living God and one true Savior, you will burn in hell, and... you are probably possessed by Satan, etc... etc... etc... etc...

      I could go on, but I hope you get the point. If... we are a "Christian Nation" etc... and our founders/framers were Christians, then to not have our Consti tution say any of the above, nor even hint at it, seems to be a huge mistake on their part, if you and other Christians are going to try to claim that we are somehow 'clearly' a Christian Nation.

      Peace...

      October 7, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @CS

      Are you Evan Christian ?

      Peace...

      October 7, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • tallulah13

      EC sounds like the same old troll(s) that haunts this blog.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:32 pm |
    • kamanakapu

      If everyone kept their mouths shut there would not and could not be any religion. Religion is a product of language and cannot exist without language. Only humans use language so only humans have religion. All the trillions of other living things on this planet do not use language and, thus, do not practice religion. The world would have been better off had we humans never learned to use language.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Evangelical Christian

      I believe in these things mostly because I'm really stupid. I go to hang out with people at my church, because they accept stupid as special. They say we're all special. Wheee!

      October 7, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • David

      Pig-dog!

      October 7, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
  19. Dad

    Atheists confuse all evil religions like Orthodox Judaism and Islam with Christianity.
    Christianity is nothing but love and peaceful.

    We don't have any sharia law, any modesty law, any dietary law, etc. like Muslims and Jews do.

    October 7, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • MDAT

      "Christianity is nothing but love and peace"Oh please.

      We want to have a free nation not a Christian nation.Cristians won't accept others.Some Christians Are good.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      the bible says to kill all g.ays, non-virgin brides, disobedient children and anyone working the weekend. christianity is about love and compassion? you obviously haven't read the bible. god drowns babies in his great flood, along with the physically handicapped, the mentally challenged, the elderly, the infirm... how can you say a god that fills children's lungs with water is about love and kindness?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • Evangelical Christian

      Would it bother you if we had Jesus statue in federal building? Big deal. You see cross/Jesus images everywhere anyway

      October 7, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • Evangelical Christian

      Christians follow NEW TESTAMENT.

      Jews follow Old Testament. Why not attack the Jews?

      October 7, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • Evangelical Christian

      I don't want to see comic book hero statues anywhere, be they Batman®, Superman®, Spiderman® or Jesus (standard creative commons license). Okay, if I go to Disneyland®, I might want to see one of those statues, but it would be better if it was a person dressed in acostume.

      October 7, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • drbob66

      But Christians, like every organized religion, try to force their beliefs onto others. this is called oppression and it is the opposite of freedom. Government + Religion = Oppression. Government – Religion = Freedom.

      October 7, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
  20. Keith

    Thank "God" we live in a secular nation. LOL

    October 7, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • Athy

      .nemA

      October 7, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.