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Anti-jihad ads make their way to D.C. subways
"Defeat Jihad" ads like the one shown here in New York will now be displayed in Washington.
October 10th, 2012
05:44 AM ET

Anti-jihad ads make their way to D.C. subways

An anti-jihad ad that has caused a stir in other cities now has another destination for its message: the subways of Washington.

The ad by the American Freedom Defense Initiative states, “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad.”

Jihad – Arabic for "struggle" – is considered a religious duty for Muslims, although there are both benign and militant interpretations of what it means.

FULL STORY
- A. Hawkins

Filed under: DC • Islam

soundoff (127 Responses)
  1. GOOD NEWS

    In any war between the WAR and the PEACE,

    support the PEACE!

    Support DAVID, JESUS, and MUHAMMAD,

    defeat the Satan!

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com

    ****UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES****

    October 11, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • Rev. Right

      STOP Obama's jihad against Medical Marijuana cancer patients. Stop this brutality, Stop this insanity.

      October 12, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
  2. Snow

    hate is hate.. no matter who spins it. how can people miss that!

    October 11, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
  3. !

    What's all the stir about? The ads are right on!

    October 11, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • .

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "The Truth" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian;..

      October 11, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • !

      "." is not a Christian either!

      October 11, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
  4. GOOD NEWS

    In any war between the Hate and the Love,

    support the LOVE!

    Support DAVID, JESUS, and MUHAMMAD,

    defeat the Satan!

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com

    ===UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES===

    October 11, 2012 at 11:22 am |
  5. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    October 10, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!~.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Jesus... A pretty convincing proof that prayers work are hundreds of millions of children who DID NOT die from this or another disease and in most cases did not even catch it. Further, the children who DID die because their parents REJECTED God's help in the form of medical care prove that REJECTING God's help can be fatal.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:09 pm |
    • Robert

      "REJECTED God's help in the form of medical care prove that REJECTING God's help can be fatal."

      You're god didn't create medical care and if your god was so powerful you wouldn't need to go to the hospital, the prayer should have healed them. It only further proves your god doesn't exist. .

      October 10, 2012 at 6:12 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Robert... Would you demand a carpenter, for example, to make a cabinet WITHOUT tools, screws, nails, etc. claiming that a "REAL" carpenter is supposed to make cabinets WITHOUT these things? Similarly, it makes no sense to demand God to NOT use the tools and materials he created (including medical care) to achieve the goal (in this case, healing the patients).

      October 10, 2012 at 6:37 pm |
    • Robert

      "Would you demand a carpenter, for example, to make a cabinet WITHOUT tools, screws, nails, etc. claiming that a "REAL" carpenter is supposed to make cabinets WITHOUT these things? Similarly, it makes no sense to demand God to NOT use the tools and materials he created (including medical care) to achieve the goal (in this case, healing the patients)."

      This shows you don't know the bible.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:43 pm |
    • .

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "The Truth" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Thinker23" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian..

      October 10, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • William Demuth

      You're very good at troll-tracking. Now do me. No, not with all the names. I mean get on your knees and do me.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Robert... I've never claimed to be an expert in the Bible and I've said absolutely nothing about the Bible or any other holy book.. I've asked you a pretty simple question "Would you demand a carpenter, for example, to make a cabinet WITHOUT tools, screws, nails, etc...?" It's a pretty simple YES or NO question. It has two possible answers, either a YES or a NO.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Mr. Demuth, I'm glad you're back. I'm still waiting for you to LIST the religious wars started by the ZIONISTS.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • Third Eagle of the Apocalypse

      @Thinker23
      That isn’t proof as you can’t prove it was due to prayer. Fact is prayer has been studied and PROVEN to have ZERO affect you primitive sob. Don’t take my word for it, g00gle the studies.

      October 11, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • !

      "You're very good at troll-tracking. Now do me. No, not with all the names. I mean get on your knees and do me."
      This maggot spreads his stench everywhere. No one would ever "do" a maggot!

      October 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • The Truth

      Here is something for you to chew on Thinker23 – A car is sitting in the driveway, was it assembled by man? From your comments I will assume you would say "Of Course." But what if I told you it was completely built by robots and computers? You would likely say "Yeah, but who built the robot that was needed to build the car?" Okay, I explained how a complex car was built a more complex robot and you have pointed out it would take an even more complex party to have created the very complex robot. Which then leads to "So who built the builder?" and this is where persons like yourself get lazy in your concepts of creation and complexity because you stop at "Well God built the builder of course" without ever discussing the obvious question that raises which is again "Who built the builder?" This means that anyone being intellectually honest must abandon the idea that the existence of complexity means by default more and more complex creators needed to explain them. This does not mean we give up trying (as most religious persons do by just saying "My God did it") but means we cannot expect absolute answers without far more data, otherwise we are just trying to guess the weight of an elephant based on a single hair.

      October 11, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
  6. Sam Yaza (a Devil in a white dress)

    i cant stand this things, on behalf of all indigenous(Pagan) people, remove this horrible insensitive banners.

    October 10, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • DC District Court

      Thanks for weighing in there, Mr.Muslim. We'll consider your demand.

      After due consideration, we think you're demand sucks. Now bugger off.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
  7. Thinker23

    Woody... The vast majority of us agree that the world we all live in (the Universe) objectively exist. Almost all of those educated enough of us agree that the Universe had a beginning commonly referred to as the Big Bang. This leaves us with two possibilities: either the Universe was CREATED by someone having the knowledge and technology to do it or, alternatively, it came into existence all by itself from nothing. It's up to each and every one of us to decide which of these two alternatives is more plausible but it makes little sense to ignore them both.

    October 10, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      So you believe in Santa...more power to you

      October 10, 2012 at 3:09 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "FACT"... The fact that you're unable to produce anything that makes sense proves that you have very little to support your claims.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:12 pm |
    • Robert

      "Universe was CREATED by someone having the knowledge and technology to do it or, alternatively, it came into existence all by itself from nothing. "

      The problem with your logic is then your god was created from nothing too.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Robert... I have to admit that I don't know what God was created from. On the other had, can YOU offer a more convincing alternative explanation? I'm all ears...

      October 10, 2012 at 6:39 pm |
    • Robert

      "I have to admit that I don't know what God was created from. On the other had, can YOU offer a more convincing alternative explanation? I'm all ears..."

      I am just pointing out your failed logic, but you can continue to make excuses if that makes you feel better.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Robert... Can YOU offer a more convincing alternative explanation? Please realize that as long as you're unable to offer a BETTER explanation MY explanation will remain the BEST one you can offer.... With all due respect, of course.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • Third Eagle of the Apocalypse

      @Thinker23
      Actually.. if you were as educated as you claim.. you’d know that is NOT the theory of the big bang. For one.. it doesn’t say it came from nothing. Secondly if you’d been keeping up the theory has been expanded to include the bang as just one in a cycle of contraction and expansion having no true beginning you primitive sob.

      October 11, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • The Truth

      You are a tiny speck of dust floating on a larger speck of dust with limited perspective and understanding trying to explain an event that occured 14.5 billion years ago, but you can conclusively claim there can only be two possible begingings for everything. You are not much of a Thinker are you.

      October 11, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Thinker23

      "Robert... Can YOU offer a more convincing alternative explanation? Please realize that as long as you're unable to offer a BETTER explanation MY explanation will remain the BEST one you can offer.... With all due respect, of course."
      The lack of another explanation does not make an ASSERTION any more valid. You still need evidence to back yourself up. Therein lies the complete failure of your argument right now.

      October 11, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
  8. GOOD NEWS

    In any war between the Hate and the Love,
    support the LOVE;
    support Jesus, David and Muhammad;
    defeat the Satan!

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com

    ==UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES!

    October 10, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Support the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
      Defeat the evil Shredder!

      October 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
    • Sam Yaza (a Devil in a white dress)

      I'm cool with destroying Satan i cant stand that guy,

      but The Shredder. sorry that guys my homie.

      October 10, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
  9. Thinker23

    American Atheist: "Would you be ok if scientology, or some other religion that you consider a cult, had a strong influence in politics and helped shape the policies that govern this nation?"

    I'd like to remind you what happened to Russia, China, North Korea, Albania and some other nations due to the cult known as Atheism that had strong influence in politics and helped shape the policies that governed these nations.

    October 10, 2012 at 1:03 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Thinker, please think!

      The "cult" you refer to was communisim.

      This was not the absence of God, but merely elevating the State and it's leaders to the level of Gods.

      Blind faith KILLS people, and it is clearly YOU who has it, and not the Atheists.

      Be it Mao or Muhammed, Hitler or Jesus, idol worship is pathetic, unamerican and PROFOUNDLY dangerous.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Willam... Communism was not A "CULT" but a political and economic SYSTEM. Atheism, however, was the official FAITH of the Communist regimes just like Islam is the official faith in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      Where were the Atheist churches in Russia? Did they hold Atheist meetings once a week in Russia? You really dont think much and have a twisted biased view of what you fear.

      October 10, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "FACT"... Hundreds of Atheist churches were in every city and town of the Soviet Union. They were called "Palaces of Culture". There the Atheist preachers lectured the Soviet citizens (forced to participate in these activities) that God did not exist and that all other religions had to be FOUGHT and eventually eliminated.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • Robert

      "Russia, China, North Korea, Albania and some other nations due to the cult known as Atheism"

      Perhaps the first thing we should note is the automatic and almost unconscious assumption made on the part of such Christians that their religion is somehow equivalent with capitalism. Any observer of America's Christians Right will not be the least bit surprised by this because conservative Christianity and right-wing politics have become almost synonymous.

      Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn't at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism, a combination often found among Objectivists and Libertarians, for example. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:28 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Robert... No one claimed that Communism and atheism were the same thing. As I've explained earlier to Mr. Demuth, Communism is a political and economic SYSTEM while atheism is the official state faith in countries where Communism as a political and economic SYSTEM was established. You're bursting into an open door.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • Robert

      "Communism is a political and economic SYSTEM while atheism is the official state faith in countries where Communism as a political and economic SYSTEM was established. You're bursting into an open door"

      Capitalism is a political and economic SYSTEM while Christianity is the official state faith in countries where Capitalism as a political and economic SYSTEM was established, therefore all of Christianity is built of greed and dishonesty of Capitalism. –

      Oh this type of poor logic is so fun.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:47 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Robert... The ONLY country where Christianity is the official state faith is the Vatican... but feel free to correct me if you believe that this is not the case.

      A friendly advice: GET A CLUE of what you're talking about.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • Third Eagle of the Apocalypse

      @Thinker23
      Atheism by definition is the lack of belief. Therefore it cannot be a cult or religion. What happen in those countries had nothing to do with the lack of belief. Get a dictionary AND a history book you primitive sob.

      October 11, 2012 at 10:27 am |
  10. Atheist Hunter

    Report this CNN. Your pres. is for jihad!
    http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/obamas-ring-there-is-no-god-but-allah/

    October 10, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Barry Soetoro

      Hey, infide... I mean, hey, you – you just shut up. I married Michelle with that ring.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
  11. ME II

    “In any war between the civilized man and the sav[]age, support the civilized man. "

    I guess it all depends on who gets to define "civilized" and "sav.age".

    October 10, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Civilized are those who are able to live in peace with others. Sav.age are those who are not.

      October 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
    • ME II

      Hmm... "live in peace"?
      Didn't the Europeans live "in peace" with their slaves?
      Do not conquerors live "in peace" with the conquered?
      The survivors live "in peace" when their victims are dead.

      I'm not identifying anyone in particular, it's just that the words used are somewhat subjective.

      October 10, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • William Demuth

      What about the Indians living in peace with the Cowboys?

      The Inca's living in peace with the Spaniard?

      Sometimes "talk of peace" is really a smokescreen for genocide

      October 10, 2012 at 1:34 pm |
    • Thinker23

      William... One has to have a very 'original' way of thinking to insist that the conquered lived in peace with their conquerers or that the Inkas lived in peace with the Spanyards. Maybe, you'll enlighten us by saying that the Jews lived in peace with the Nazis?

      October 10, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
  12. Where is your God now?

    Acid throwing, also called an acid attack or vitriolage, is a form of violent assault. It is defined as the act of throwing acid onto the body of a person "with the intention of injuring or disfiguring [them] out of jealousy or revenge". Perpetrators of these attacks throw acid at their victims, usually at their faces, burning them, and damaging skin tissue, often exposing and sometimes dissolving the bones. The long term consequences of these attacks include blindness and permanent scarring of the face and body.

    These attacks are most common in Cambodia, Afghanistan, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and other nearby countries.Globally, at least 1500 people in 20 countries are attacked in this way yearly, 80% of whom are female and somewhere between 40% and 70% under 18 years of age.

    October 10, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • Meatwad

      I tried to deep-fry a cow one time. It was good except for the hair and all.

      October 10, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • Towelie

      Towelie says, "If you are gonna throw acid on an a girl under 18-years-old for going to school, don't forget to bring a towel!"

      October 10, 2012 at 11:48 am |
  13. sheetiron

    The problem with an anti bl@sphemy law is that it would violate the first amendment but not because of free speech. It's because of the establishment clause. Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. An anti bl@sphemy law would require US citizens to respect the establishment of the religion of Islam. It also prohibits religions that are exclusive in their beliefs from expressing that. It also prohibits the press from reporting on Islam in a negative light. It violates the first amendment all around.

    October 10, 2012 at 10:54 am |
  14. Reality

    The Better Ad:

    THERE NEVER WERE AND NEVER WILL BE ANY ANGELS I.E. NO GABRIEL, NO ISLAM AND THEREFORE NO MORE KORANIC-DRIVEN ACTS OF HORROR AND TERROR LIKE 9/11.

    SAVING 2 BILLION LOST CHRISTIANS:

    THERE WERE NEVER ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS AND THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS I.E. NO EASTER, NO CHRISTIANITY.

    SAVING 15.5 MILLION FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM:

    ABRAHAM AND MOSES AS FAR AS ONE KNOWS NEVER EXISTED.

    Added details upon request.

    October 10, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • Thinker23

      Is it a "better" ad because it's all in CAPITALS or because you say so?

      October 10, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • Reality

      The CAPITALS in the better ad match the CAPITALS in the topic ad.

      As requested some added details:

      From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      The First Five of the 77 Branches:

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
      be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

      Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

      October 10, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
    • Reality

      More details:

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

      The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • Reality

      And still more details:

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

      The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

      October 10, 2012 at 1:07 pm |
    • Paul II

      I suggest moving to North Korea. There is no theistic religion there.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • Thinker23

      REALITY... So WHAT makes you believe that Abraham and Moses never existed?

      October 10, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • Reality

      The non-existance of Abraham and Moses:

      The New Torah for Modern Minds

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      From amazon.com

      "Etz Hayim: Torah and Commentary (Hardcover) $58.00

      ~ David L. Lieber (Editor), Jules Harlow (Editor), United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism (Corporate Author), The Rabbinical Assembly (Corporate Author)
      4.7 out of 5 stars (15 customer reviews)

      "The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism (USCJ) is the primary organization of synagogues practicing Conservative Judaism in North America. It closely works with the Rabbinical Assembly, the international body of Conservative rabbis, the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, and the Ziegler School of Rabbinic Studies.[1]"

      October 10, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "Reality"... And WHAT makes you believe that "David L. Lieber (Editor), Jules Harlow (Editor)" know MORE than tens of thousands of learned Rabbis who were telling us (for thousands of years) that Abraham and Moses DID exist?

      October 10, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • Reality

      One more time:

      "The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument. "

      i.e. modern scholars doing work uninhibited by Jewish orthodoxy.

      October 11, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • Thinker23

      Reality... One more time: What makes you believe that the "United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States" knows MORE than thousands of Synagogues all over the world that represented hundreds of millions of Jews over more than 2,000 years?

      October 11, 2012 at 6:02 am |
    • Reality

      "Scholarship for more than two centuries have agreed that the Torah, in which the Patriarchal stories are found, was drawn together from different literary sources. However, any particular identification or dating of the textual sources have been strongly debated.[22]

      It is widely held by modern biblical scholarship that the Patriarchs, including Abraham, are not clearly and unambiguously attested in the Hebrew Bible earlier than the Babylonian exile. This has led modern scholars to propose that the entire Torah, which include the stories of Abraham, all originated from literary circles either during the Babylonian period of the late 6th century BCE, to the 5th century Persian rule,[23] or as late as Hellenistic times.[22] Under these dominions, the Patriarchal stories are seen as hope for the Jewish people when Jerusalem, the Temple, and the Davidic kingship were all but destroyed. YHWH's dealings with their ancestors provided hope for a future in which an ancestral foundation could be built.[24] Thus, Abraham served as a model for those who would return to Judah.[23]

      There are however, modern supporters for an earlier dating. Robert Alter interjects that the Hebrew language evolved over nine centuries of biblical literary activity, from the First Commonwealth (1000 BCE to 586 BCE) to the late Persian/Hellenistic periods.[22] Both Alter and Ronald Hendel argue that there is very little Hebrew in the Torah that could bear a late dating to the 6th-4th century BCE eras, due to their linguistic differences."

      Bibliography

      Alter, Robert; a translation with commentary (2008). The five books of Moses (Paperback ed. ed.). New York: W. W. Norton. ISBN 9780393333930.

      Andrews, Stephen J. (1990). "Abraham". In Mills, Watson E.; Bullard, Roger A.. Mercer Dictionary of the Bible. Mercer University Press.

      McNutt, Paula (1999). Reconstructing the Society of Ancient Israel. Westminster John Knox Press.

      Moore, Megan Bishop; Kelle, Brad E. (2011). Biblical History and Israel's Past. Eerdmans.

      Alexander, David; Pat Alexander (1973). Eerdmans' Handbook to the Bible. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans. ISBN 0-8028-3436-1.

      Blenkinsopp, Joseph (2009). Judaism, the First Phase: The Place of Ezra and Nehemiah in the Origins of Judaism. Eerdmans.

      Boadt, Lawrence (1984). Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction. New York: Paulist Press. ISBN 0-8091-2631-1.

      Ginzberg, Louis (2003). Harriet Szold tr. ed. Legends of the Jews, Volume 1. Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society. ISBN 0-8276-0709-1.

      Harrison, R. K. (1969). An Introduction to the Old Testament. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans. ISBN 0-87784-881-5. Kidner, Derek (1967). Genesis. Downers Grover, IL: Inter-Varsity Press. Kitchen, K.A. (1966). Ancient Orient and Old Testament. Chicago: Inter-Varsity Press. Levenson, Jon D. (2004). "The Conversion of Abraham to Judaism, Christianity and Islam". In Hindy Najman, Judith Newman (eds). The Idea of Biblical Interpretation: Essays in Honor of James L. Kugel. Leiden: Koningklijke Brill. ISBN 90-04-13630-4. Rosenberg, David M. (2006). Abraham: the first historical biography. New York: Basic Books. ISBN 0-465-07094-9. Schultz, Samuel J. (1990). The Old Testament Speaks (4th ed.). San Francisco: Harper. ISBN 0-06-250767-2. Silberman, Neil Asher; Finkelstein, Israel (2001). The Bible unearthed: archaeology's new vision of ancient Israel and the origin of its sacred texts. New York: Free Press. ISBN 0-684-86912-8. Thompson, J.A. (1986). Handbook to Life in Bible Times. Downers Grove, IL: Inter-Varsity Press. ISBN 0-87784-949-8. Thompson, Thomas (2002). The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives: The Quest for the Historical Abraham. Valley Forge, Pa: Trinity Press International. ISBN 1-56338-389-6. Van Seters, John (1975). Abraham in history and tradition. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. ISBN 0-300-01792-8. Vermes, Geza (1973). Scripture and tradition in Judaism. Haggadic studies. Leiden: Brill. ISBN 90-04-07096-6. Whybray, Roger Norman (1987). The making of the Pentateuch: a methodological study. Sheffield: JSOT Press. ISBN 1-85075-063-7.

      October 11, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
  15. Truth

    Blacks vs. Human Beings would be a more accurate description on what America is facing today.
    Let us not rest, for if we do, we will most certainly have a real life "Planet of the Apes" on our hands.

    October 10, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • William Demuth

      Ah, so the superior white Christian speaks.

      Son, I am whiter than you, brighter than you, and bettter looking.

      You on the other hand, shame my race.

      Is that what they REALLY teach in Hill Billy sunday school?

      October 10, 2012 at 9:31 am |
    • Al

      Rush? Shouldn't you be getting ready for your radio program?

      October 10, 2012 at 9:31 am |
    • Huebert

      Truth

      I'm going to as'sume that you are trolling. If you were actually that dumb I don't believe you would have been able to turn on the computer you are using.

      October 10, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • Tara

      FAKE ALERT.

      You atheists are disgusting PIGS. No true Christian would care about this subject never mind posting this garbage.

      October 10, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • ME II

      @Tara,
      I agree that the OP is probably a fake, but who said anything about Christians?

      October 10, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      Tara

      FAKE ALERT.

      You atheists are disgusting PIGS. No true Christian would care about this subject never mind posting this garbage.
      .
      There is no such thing as a "true Christian".

      October 10, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
  16. Portland tony

    It appears to me that most so-called atheists are just just trolling the religious blogs. How can anyone be opposed to and argue against something they don't believe exists.

    October 10, 2012 at 9:26 am |
    • ME II

      Once again, atheists are arguing with the believers not with the god that they don't think exists. It is the believers and their actions that do exist and can affect the lives of atheists.

      October 10, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • AFI

      Really, ME II? How would that be? Can you give me some examples?

      October 10, 2012 at 5:33 pm |
  17. William Demuth

    This is right up there with other paranoid slogans like "Germans Beware! Don't Buy From Jews."

    I have always been amused that Zionists insist that we "never forget" what the Nazi's did, while at the same time emulating so many of their behaviors.

    Dehumanizing your opponents?

    Haven't we learned the lesson of where this type of rhetoric can lead?

    October 10, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • Yaakov

      William,
      You accuse "Zionists" of emulating the Nazi's but based on your comments it's clear you have no concept of what Zionism is. Zionism is Judaism and Judaism is Zionism, the two are inseprable. Zionism is the belief that the Jews should have their own land and government which is no different than any other nation. The Muslims have dozens of Islamic controlled nations but you seem to have a problem with a tiny state full of Jews. As far as atheistic intelligence is concerned, 2 of the 6 Nobel Prize winners in science this year alone were Jews and over 1/3rd of all are as well. I haven't really seen any evidence to suggest that Atheists are more intelligent than those in the religious community and certainly when you accuse Jews of murdering innocent people in a land grab. I guess physical proof that Jews have lived in the land of Israel for centuries doesn't mean anything to you. I mean who ever heard of Jewdea, Jewrusalem, and Zion having Jews in them right? Those sure sound like ancient Islamic names to me. Yeah, right.

      October 10, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • William Demuth

      Yaakov

      You are a simpleton at best, and a criminal at worst.

      As I sit and write this I have three Jews within arm’s length of me calling you a fool.

      Hassidic, Orthodox and even a conservative, and they ALL agree that to be Jewish does NOT require allegiance to Israel and its right wing lunatics

      Zionism is religious bigotry hiding behind nationalism. Your subhuman treatment of the Palestinians is a crime against humanity, and rest assure, you WILL be held accountable.

      Basing a society on nonexistent sky fairies, be they Christ, Yahweh, Jehovah, Buddha, Allah or Barney the Purple Dinosaur is deprived and deplorable.

      Your claims are a lie, as are the Muslim and Christian claims, because ALL of your Gods are lies, fabrications designed to poison the minds of the simple, and you are living proof it is working.

      You are genetic brothers (with the exception of the European outcast you move in) and you are ALL crazy as loons, yet you continue to slaughter your own brothers in call it piety.

      Your scourge can’t fade from this world fast enough.

      October 10, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Thinker23

      William... If I were you I would be ashamed to make such harsh statements without having a clue of what you're talking about. You may start your education from reading something about Zionism. You would be amazed to discover that Zionism is a SECULAR movement declaring that the Jews (just like any other ethnic group of people) have the right for self-determination.

      October 10, 2012 at 12:52 pm |
    • Nii

      William
      where did you gather 3 Jews to help you insult people's religion like this. A religious man of any religion including Atheism behave just like you do. As you point a finger at Jews etc observe the four pointing back at you. Let us treat those we do not agree with with a decorum and lots of respect. Then dehumanization will abate and maybe eventually stop.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
    • Paul II

      Willy, free your mind. The ads are not attacks on people, but on an ideology. There is a big difference. As for Israelis emulating Nazis, that is ridiculous, and shows either a lack of understanding or a willful effort at propaganda. 1 in 5 Israelis are actually Palestinian. They work, shop, pray, marry, and travel pretty much as they please within Israel. There is no comparison.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Thinker23

      You are some crack smoking dude!

      I have buried family members in the religious wars the so called secular Zionists started.

      Zionism is bigotry. There is ZERO biological difference between Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims.

      They are the same. The ONLY difference is the AQUIRED trait of which imaginary God they worship

      These beliefs are used to create classes of people, determine ownership of land and even to decide who gets to cross a damn street.

      Zionisim is Theocracy pure and simple.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Paul, what you are attacking is a RELIGION, just as I am.

      The only difference between you and I, is that I attack them all.

      Thes people are the same gene pool. All the other stuff is gibberish.

      They have slaughtered each other for centuries, and soon shall nuke each other in homage to their imaginary saviors.

      No cult is better than another, they ALL are pathetic.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:17 pm |
    • Thinker23

      William... Can you NAME one religious (or even NON-religious) war that was STARTED BY ZIONISTS? Be my guest...

      October 10, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Heywood

      If they took the "Support Israel" off of the sign would you agree? it is factualy correct, isent it?

      Billy, im going to go out on a limb and say that the only "Zionist" that you like is the dead one hanging on the wall of your church that you kneel and pray to.

      October 10, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • AFI

      I do believe that Mr. Demuth is either a Muslim or a liberal Jew who's afraid to be seen in the sunlight.

      Probably a Muslim with that acerbic comment about the treatment of Palestinians.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
  18. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    "Science has only one truth" Maybe, but you may never know what it is. Stephen Hawking's model based realism is interesting in this regard.

    "Science and religion are not mutually exclusive" Religion is what people fall back on when they are tired of trying to work things out. Religion offers certitude: truth when none may actually exist.

    October 10, 2012 at 8:26 am |
  19. Thinker23

    Every religion is a FAITH based on a set of unprovable beliefs. So it atheism...

    Traditional religions tell us that the world around us (the Universe) was created by someone knowing how to do it. Atheism tells us that the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing. It's up to each and every one of us to decide which hypothesis is more plausible.

    October 10, 2012 at 8:11 am |
    • American Atheist

      Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief. There is a difference.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:22 am |
    • William Demuth

      Silly boy!

      Faith? I have none what so ever.

      If anything is demonstrably better at explaining things than science is, I would abandon it in a heartbeat.

      Alas, the system of belief that says a transgendered Palestinian Super Hero from the Bronze Age is the creator of time space and dimension fails in that test.

      Do you have any other delusional beliefs you might want to have considered?

      October 10, 2012 at 8:44 am |
    • saggyroy

      If not believing is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:44 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      If atheism is a belief, then sitting on the couch is an Olympic discipline. Is is NOT a belief.
      A-symptomatic is absence of symptoms, not a further assertion about the heath of the organism.
      A-symmetrical is absence of symmetry.
      A-theism is absence of theism.
      If absence is a positive assertion, then language has no content.
      A-theism dismisses claims of theists, and makes no claim of it's own.
      Saying "atheism is a belief system" is perverse. It comes from the inability of theists to understand that agnostics and theists REQUIRE explanation mythologies for everything, right now, today.
      Atheists care content to say "we don't know, we may never know", about things for which there are no complete explanations. The clear pattern is, that things we don't understand, eventually get explained by totally natural mechanisms. Intelligent Design, Creationism, and "faith", are ALL "god of the gaps" arguments, by people who need more education.

      October 10, 2012 at 9:14 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Many who say they are "a-theists" really are Apatheists and/or Igtheists. Before one can discuss the subject, one must define the terms of the debate. Until, or unless one can provide a coherent, and logically consistent definition for what the word "god" actually even means, not only is a-theism not a belief system, it's also not even an accurate term.

      October 10, 2012 at 9:18 am |
    • Which God?

      Well it just goes to show you, thinker 23, that your handle is a misnomer. You don't think very deeply, but rather superficially. If you think at all.

      October 10, 2012 at 9:19 am |
    • Woody

      Students usually learns, at some point before graduating high school, the fact that you can't prove a negative. I could take you to an empty room and insist that there's an invisible elephant running around in it. I'd have absolutely no proof, mind you, but I would insist it was there. You'd probably, and rightfully so, tell me I was delusional. The belief in a supernatural being is similar to the invisible elephant. You're making the claim. I, as a non-believer, am simply asking you to prove what you insist is NOT a negative. Atheism in not a religion. It's simply an absence of belief in supernatural beings, no matter what name they go by.

      October 10, 2012 at 9:47 am |
    • Thinker23

      @American Atheist... Every human with a functioning braing believes in SOMETHING. Declaring that Atheism is LACK of beliefee is equivalent to declaring that atheists do not have functioning brains.

      @Which God... Insulting your opponent is a clear sign of inability to produce anything better than insults. If you WERE able to produce something better than insults you would certainly do it, would not you, genius?

      October 10, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      Thinker...your thinking is unsound.

      October 10, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "FACT"... Did you disagree with something I've said? If so

      October 10, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "FACT"... Did you disagree with something I've said? If so WHAT WAS IT?

      October 10, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
  20. American Atheist

    I'd like to see this sign go up right next to it.

    In a war between critical thinking and delusional fantasy, support critical thinking.
    Support science
    Defeat religion.

    October 10, 2012 at 6:39 am |
    • saggyroy

      I think I would change it to "Support Science and Reason". Ya know, how much would it cost to print some up and put them up around town? hmmmm.....

      October 10, 2012 at 7:14 am |
    • Milan

      Faith in God and science are not mutually exclusive

      October 10, 2012 at 7:16 am |
    • American Atheist

      @saggyroy
      I like it.

      @MIlan
      I disagree.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:28 am |
    • saggyroy

      @Milan You can make up as many religions as you want. Science only has one truth.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:58 am |
    • Thinker23

      Science and religion are not mutually exclusive. On the other hand, suppressing those thinking differently reminds the darkest days of the Inquisition... Something those calling to "defeat religion" should remember.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:07 am |
    • American Atheist

      @Thinker23

      I welcome those who think differently. Without free thinking people we would be a much different society. I do however take issue with people who ignore solid science because it contradicts their faith. I also take issue when those same people use their fairy tale beliefs to influence national policies.

      Would you be ok if scientology, or some other religion that you consider a cult, had a strong influence in politics and helped shape the policies that govern this nation?

      October 10, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      End racism.
      Become a misanthrope.

      October 10, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • ME II

      @Milan,
      That depends on the god...

      October 10, 2012 at 12:52 pm |
    • Thinker23

      @American Atheist... "I do however take issue with people who ignore solid science because it contradicts their faith."

      In this case, you should take an issue with Atheists ignoring all scientific evidence of the Creator because it contradicts their faith that the Creator does not exist.

      October 10, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • ME II

      @Thinker23,
      What evidence of "the Creator"?

      October 10, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • Thinker23

      MEII: "What evidence of "the Creator"?

      YOU. Unless, of course, you insistg that you've came int existence all by yourself from some dirt and water.

      October 10, 2012 at 2:25 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      Thinker.... leave out as sumption..please provide the evidence to your specific Santa. Believe it or not, there are some who have simply found no reason to believe that your Santa exists. If you are not talking about Santa, please identify which mythical being you are talking about.

      October 10, 2012 at 2:25 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      Thinker23

      MEII: "What evidence of "the Creator"?

      YOU. Unless, of course, you insistg that you've came int existence all by yourself from some dirt and water.
      ........

      FAIL

      As sumption on your part. Please identify if you are talking about Santa or some other mythical being. Then present the evidence specific to the mythical being.

      October 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      Thinker... you need to remember there are many mythical beings out there that people believe in so it would be helpful if you would at least identify which one you are talking about.

      October 10, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "FACT"... I have to apologize that my statement, apparently, was not clear enough so I'll try to clarify it further. You see, for me an automobile, for example, is a sufficient evidence that those who design, develop, test and build automobiles EXIST. Similarly, the existence of a human being (in this case, YOU) is a sufficient evidence that someone who designed, developed, tested and built YOU (among other humans) EXIST.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • Maestro

      My parents made me...what is you point, Thinker23?
      Where did YOU come from? The cabbage patch? Sheesh.

      October 11, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • Thinker23

      Maestro... Of course, your parents made you. Just like drills, lathes, presses, glue dispensers and paint sprayers made the automobile you or your parents drive. I, however, came from the world of educated adults KNOWING that the scientists, engineers, designers, technicians and other workers made that automobile. I came from the world where educated adults KNOW that TOOLS ARE BEING USED in the process of making things but IT'S NOT THE TOOLS that make them.

      October 11, 2012 at 6:07 am |
    • Truth

      "I came from the world where educated adults KNOW that TOOLS ARE BEING USED in the process of making things but IT'S NOT THE TOOLS that make them."

      The same lame logic could be used to question what made your maker? Circular logic is so fun as you go round and round in a circle. Weeeee!

      October 11, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • Not of Them

      "I came from the world where educated adults KNOW that TOOLS ARE BEING USED in the process of making things but IT'S NOT THE TOOLS that make them."

      But, if you did not possess such knowlege of mechanics and tools, and you found such a car, and perhaps also saw such vehicles being 'grown' from other cars instead(slightly more complex each time), would you not question whether such things needed a maker? Further more, would you not question whether the existance of the 'original yet unaccounted for manufacturer' is relevant today as anything other than trivial interest?

      October 12, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.