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October 10th, 2012
12:01 PM ET
Congressman draws fire for calling evolution, Big Bang ‘lies from the pit of hell’By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor Washington (CNN) - A U.S. congressman is attracting attention and criticism for an online video that shows him blasting evolution and the Big Bang theory as “lies from the pit of hell” in a recent speech at a church event in his home state of Georgia. “All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, the Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell,” U.S Rep. Paul Broun said in an address last month at a banquet organized by Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell, Georgia. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.” Broun, a medical doctor by training, serves on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. Speaking at Liberty Baptist Church’s Sportsman’s Banquet on September 27, he said that “a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth.” Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter “I don’t believe that the Earth’s but about 9,000 years old,” Broun said in the speech, which Liberty Baptist Church posted on its website via YouTube. “I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says." Scientists say that the Earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old and that the universe dates back 13.7 billion years. In his speech to the church group, Broun called the Bible the “the manufacturer’s handbook. … It teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in our society.” “That’s the reason, as your congressman, I hold the holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that,” he said. A spokeswoman for the congressman, Meredith Griffanti, said that Broun was not available for comment on Wednesday and that the video showed him “speaking off the record to a large church group about his personal beliefs regarding religious issues.” The congressman’s remarks about science have drawn attention online, with critics taking aim at his role on the science committee. Bill Nye, the popular science personality, told the Huffington Post in an e-mail that "Since the economic future of the United States depends on our tradition of technological innovation, Representative Broun's views are not in the national interest." "For example, the Earth is simply not 9,000 years old," said Nye, a mechanical engineer and television personality best known for his program "Bill Nye the Science Guy." Broun "is, by any measure, unqualified to make decisions about science, space, and technology." Talking Points Memo reported on the church video over the weekend after being tipped off by the Bridge Project, a progressive group that tracks conservative activity. Most creationists believe in the account of the origins of the world as told in the Book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories In the creation account, God creates Adam and Eve, the world and everything in it in six days. For Christians who read the Genesis account literally, or authoritatively as they would say, the six days in the account are literal 24-hour periods and leave no room for evolution. Young Earth creationists use this construct and biblical genealogies to determine the age of the Earth and typically come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years. The Gallup Poll has been tracking Americans' views on creation and evolution for 30 years. In June, it released its latest findings, which showed that 46% of Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in evolution guided by God, and 15% believed in atheistic evolution. - CNN's Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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repost!!!!
this congressman – and people who think like him should never be allowed to vote, serve in public office, purchase firearms or be allowed to teach in public schools.
tolerance for religion and all the delusional thinking that goes with it has to end.
these people should be ashamed to be this ignorant in the 21st century.
there's no gods – no tooth fairies and no santa claus.
enough is enough
I'll say it again. Everybody has the right to vote and run for public office. This is a good thing.
and i'll tell YOU again – only differently
yes, anyone can...
but – no – it isn't a good thing – as we've categorically proven, time and time and time again.
delusional thinking is a mental illness... but it's ok to let people who talk to imaginary men in the sky purchase firearms.
evolutionary theory is based on a lot of really keen facts... creation isn't... but it's ok to teach kids in school that the earth is only 9000 years old.
everyone is created equal.. but it's ok to deny people to marry who they choose, because there are some loosely associated words scribbled about it from a book that's 2000 years old.
i'm not the only one who sees the inconsistency and ignorance.
it has to end. enough is enough.
Anvil so what do you believe in? You see everything created on earth that was man made had someone create it. Why wouldn't we as human have a creator? Food for thought.
Well who created our creator? And so on? Or is it turtles all the way down?
>Jeff
>Anvil so what do you believe in? You see everything created on earth that was man made had someone create it. Why >wouldn't we as human have a creator? Food for thought.
i see the things we (mankind) created. i also see the things that were entirely created naturally – without any intelligent design or guiding hands. biophysics is hard, that's why everyone doesn't have a doctorate in it. 😉
as for what i believe – i believe in science, jeff – because it requires no faith in things for which there is no evidence.
by the way – your logic is skewed. your question was food for thought for a very malnourished mind.
There's nothing wrong with tolerating religion, but religions that don't tolerate outsiders, like all fundamentalists don't, really shouldn't be tolerated. 🙂
Yeh I think a car just appeared out of nothing or it evolved from a nut, to think the earth happened by chance how silly you all look lol.
Quantum mechanics says that a car can assemble itself with no need fot creative input.
We know how the Earth happened. The universe's happening is a bit foggier, but that a god did it is one of the most improbable answers.
Rational Libertarian
"Quantum mechanics says that a car can assemble itself with no need fot creative input."
lol – no... it doesn't.
are you trolling?? that's funny stuff!
It doesn't say those words specifically, but it's perfectly possible that the molecules assemble themselves without external input. The only troll here is the one who wants to turn America into an autocracy.
molecules DO arrange themselves without external input. lol – it's not only possible and probable – it's testable and verifiable – and inevitable. lol
>>there's nothing in quantum physics that supports the idea that a car could assemble itself randomly* without input. contrary to normal-human belief – in reality, some things are so improbable as to be entirely impossible.
you must have been asleep in that class.
or you're smoking the pots. are you on the pots, bro??
pseudo-randomness, quantum indeterminacy, and probability aren't toys for feeble minds.
Nobody claims the earth was created by chance. It is part of the process when a star is born. Matter circling the infant star joins up with other pieces of matter because of gravitational attraction and planets form. The same thing seems to have happened to thousands of stars in our galaxy. So it is not an uncommon event.
Maybe you were thinking of how animals evolved on earth – rather than what you wrote. The process of how humans evolved from single cell creatures is well understood. If you think of shuffling a deck of cards almost an infinite number of times, any sequence you can think of will come up eventually. This is not an unlikely event but is certain to happen if you shuffle the cards enough.
You apparently think a human like God created man in a small number of days. Where is your proof? What evidence do you have to support this claim?
Also, how do you explain the conflicts between this theory and science? Carbon dating is just one example.
When Christ was on earth he performed many miracles to convince people he was God. Why is this kind of thing not happening today to convince people to believe in God?
You see miracles do happen today though just check this out. There is proof for ya
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Fw-0wR87okY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFw-0wR87okY
jeff: how do make the logical leap from a creator to a god?
Jeff. Your ignorance of science is just as breathtakingly immense as your pride in that ignorance
jeff your gullibility and ignorance are staggering to behold. If there are any miracles today it is just that in the face of all science has taught mankind, facts that even YOU rely on to live a longer more comfortable life, that such ignorance as yours can thrive.
Why is it so hard for believers to understand that animate objects can self evolve while inanimate objects created by man cannot?
Oh yeh I'm gullible lol, yeh so when I prayed for someone's leg to grow out and saw it grow was fake yeh, people completely healed from cancer people raised from the dead yeh that's by chance. Whether u believe that god is real or not the truth is he is and you will meet him one day. I hope you find him and pray that god will reveal himself to you all.
@Jeff
You got the medical records to prove your "miracles"? If so, why aren't you praying that all the starving children everywhere are able to just find food, or why not pray for god to reveal himself to every non-believer so their souls will be saved?
Jeff, what are you? 14? Go back to school (and really start paying attention during English class, please). Typical fundidiot, making all kinds of wild claims with not a single scrap of evidence to back it up. Jeff, your faith says that liars go to hell. Jeff, you're going to hell. Just sayin'.
God is the cosmic flasher. Simply ask and god will reveal himself, just like this guy! Just be careful, his wanker is enormous.
http://youtu.be/bK7Bh1RMu5Y
Athy- It's not a personal God, I guess. We're told it loves you, though.
Big Bang theory and evolution why believe In that. Oh yeh I think a car just went bang no one created it no, I didn't see anyone make it. Anything a human made was made by someone. Why wouldn't we be created. I can't believe people don't believe in god. In takes more faith not to believe him then it is.
Who created the creator? Did he just fall together by himself? Can't think very clearly, can you Nick?
The Creator is eternal – a slightly more modern alternative to "it's turtles the rest of the way down".
You can have my turtle...
No comment. I await Tom Tom, and I'm hoping she's bringing a ruler and an English book. Maybe if she hits this one over the head with one it'll improve the situation.
Lol. No – I think I need the other Tom Tom for this one. Lol.
turdles for tum tum the pimpled bum.....
she say YUM!
I'm not convinced they actually don't believe in the existence of God. It's pretty intuitive, I agree. It's just that their arrogance leads them to deny God and exalt their collection of teachings.
Yeh u can go all day with that who created god then who created him and so on and so on there has to be someone who started it all and we live for eternity, after death so why can't you believe that he has always been there?
Because that's patently absurd.
Learning disability? I know we are credulity impaired. But then faith is kind of like the appendix or wisdom teeth. Not having it is not a big deal.
At athy well have you ever ask god to reveal himself to you. It says taste and see that god is good. You have to taste to see. Ask him and he will reveal himself to you.
And the non-absurd explanation for the beginning of everything is....?
Why can't we believe that God has always been there, Nick? We've no reason to believe there was ever such a thing as God.
I'm curious. Do you really think we can live eternally? We are finite in so many ways. Imagine yourself 20 trillion years from now. You, everything you are now, would be diluted by the vast experience of that much time. You would have long since ceased to be what you are now.
God loves everyone
There is no fucking god. Everything happened naturally. Science eventually will explain it all. Much has already been explained and accepted by those intelligent enough to understand it. There is no need to invoke some superstitious nonsense just because you're incapable of rational thought.
The non absurd explanation is that the universe is cyclical, and the cycles have been happening for an infinite amount of time. The absurd explanation is Jebus did it.
But Nick needs to feel loved, Athy.
Yes when we die we live for eternity for sure, the choice is yours where you end up. But god loves all and wants all people to live with him in eternity. To look at the earth and see that it happened by all by chance or Big Bang is very hard to believe.
How can u say there is no god when you have asked him to reveal himself?
Nevertheless, it's true.
Nick, the root reason of why more people don't believe in God is Lucifer at work. They don't believe because Lucifer in this age is deceiving more and more people and is blinding their minds to prevent them from believing. But don't be alarmed by this, and just be glad that you believe, for these things must happen in order for the end to come. The much more you see people turning away from God, the faster the end shall come…
Also note, the bible has long prophesied about people who are "scoffers", people who scoff that the bible is real, who scoff that there's a God, who make fun of religious people and say "where is this Jesus, show us your God"… But don't be alarmed by this. For these things must happen that the scriptures be fulfilled. But rest assured, God will deal with such people on Judgment Day. And none shall escape…
2 Corinthians 4:4 – In whom the god of this world (Lucifer) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not…
2 Peter 3:3 – Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation…
Yeh I think a car just appeared from nothing or evolved from a nut. Happened by chance the world lol how silly you all look.
To believe in a Designer and Creator on the basis of faith alone would be difficult for some of us.
Rational Libertarian: "The non absurd explanation is that the universe is cyclical, and the cycles have been happening for an infinite amount of time. The absurd explanation is Jebus did it."
And how did the cycles begin?
And if you say they've always been, then your answer may be absurd.
I just now asked him to reveal himself. All I got was a blank wall.
b4
They didn't begin, they're infinite.
Oh , shit! Now the bible babblers are coming out.
Oh and btw, you're right re "Jebus" – that is absurd.
Never heard of a "Jebus" – what is it?
Now listen nick, I am imagining that you want to do well and go to heaven, right? Now you might be able to take over the current St. Nick's job if you learn to write better. If you do, when you get to heaven, the old St. Nick can retire and you can become the new St Nick. But your writing has to improve, dear. They won't let you take over that job with that current set of writing skills you have, because if they didn't let you do it, they know you'll probably make a lot of typos and confuse kids when you respond to their Christmas letters. So you have to work on the writing, dear.
Nice athy he will reveal himself to you maybe not straight away but he will.
Yeah, right. Meanwhile I'm not holding my breath,
Athy- It's not a personal God, I guess. We're told it loves you, though.
As i expected, baseless absurdity from the athies.
g'nite...
God loves everyone of you on here I will pray for you all
I don't know why but I've convinced myself recently that if there is a god, or anything that comes even just a little close to having some of the powers that people traditionally associate with their God, that this god is like an energy that is something mostly biological, but like nothing that exists anymore–something that only existed prior to the last big bang. Lol. I'm almost 80, but for some reason I just really started thinking about this the past few days. So obviously my "god" does not have human attributes at all. And because it only existed before the big bang, that throws out the whole conscious god thing.
Frankly I find it all absurd. Whether the multiverse was popped into existence by a creator of from nothing and cycles endlessly, seems equally absurd. There is no evidence for a creator, and there certainly was no abrahamic god or jesus, but whatever the origin/catalyst/god, its bound to be a good punchline if folks ever figure it out.
Because the origin of the Universe is beyond the ken of some people, those same people imagine up a being, also beyond their ken, to do the uncanny work. Presumably it understands it all when they cannot.
Isn't a multiverse like parallel universes? I just keep pondering sequential big bangs, but maybe that's not a popular notion.
End Religion… There always has been evidence of a creator, just not evidence you're willing to accept...
mama k,
Good on ya'! You've got me beat age-wise, but I do have quite a few years under my belt - over 40 of them as a believer. I think that Nick and Jeff are around 14 years old. Of course, there is hope that realism will 'reveal' itself to them if they are honest.
mama k
The cyclical universe theory does have some adherents, but the multiverse theory is certainly the most popular in physics today. I'm not a physicist though, are they mutually exclusive?
You guys get upset because deep down you know there is a God, you have either been hurt in life and blame God or you blame someone that was a believer who might have hurt you, don't you think that's what the enemy wants you to do. Taste and see that God is good. give him a chance and see that he will not lavish his love on you.
Well I'm not sure about Nick and Jeff, but I don't remember people being so close-minded when I was growing up and even when I started working. Even people who were fairly religious would at least listen to ideas and discuss them and, more importantly, consider them with you.
Bullshit. Pure bullshit.
I don't know, RL. It is way out of my level of education. But is multiverse supposed to be co-existing universes?
Athy – who are you pooping on? lol
Co existing, yes. Not sure about pre existing.
Anyway all I must go to bed. I will pray for you all that you will experience the love of God like I have and that he might reveal his presence to you.
Nick, of course, with his blind faith in the absurd notion of a god.
"You guys get upset because deep down you know there is a God, you have either been hurt in life and blame God or you blame someone that was a believer who might have hurt you..."
No, Nick, that is not at all my reason(s) for not believing in a god. Perhaps it would be YOUR shallow reason, but it is not mine.
I will have to read up on the parallel thing, then. I have heard of it recently. I love hearing new ideas, but I just don't think I can begin to think about something like that without a lot more info. I do hope Nick studies his English, even if he does wind up having his head in Gullible's Travels for the next umpteen years.
True Fray – that's an easy one to turn the other way around. Say Nick doesn't believe the tooth fairy is real. And a bunch of his friends try to tell him otherwise. Well, he may be annoyed with their persistence, but I doubt very seriously he would say that he is upset because deep down he really does believe in the tooth fairy.
Mama k, you went on about nick being rude and so on, yet aren't you doing the same to him now?
He has a point though everyone is getting upset about what he is saying. Just curious why? Why get upset if you know it isn't true? Maybe there is truth in what he is saying.
@Mama. Plus had a go at his English. Not nice. We don't have a go at you for posting a reply as a new topic, do we? We could say that is dumb.
I wasn't upset at all with this Nick, I just urged him to improve his writing skills. There one thing that people do here, aside from posting a video – and that is write. I suppose some might think of this as a place to practice writing, but if everyone here were using it that way, it would not be a very enlightening forum. I do counter regarding religion and that is knee-jerk I admit when, in a conversation, the other person is not listening nor learning, but only preaching.
I do see that I was too rude with Nick, especially about the writing. But Kate, I didn't say Nick was being rude.
Kate,
"He has a point though everyone is getting upset about what he is saying. Just curious why? Why get upset if you know it isn't true?"
No, he does not have a valid point. Imputing motives to people whom he doesn't even know is not acceptable. I don't believe that your "God" (or any god) has any basis in fact. Believers, however, DO exist, and we have every right to dispute their contentions.
Do/did people who argued against the ideas of geocentrism, or slavery, or the repression of women, really, in their heart of hearts know that those were valid concepts and just felt like getting "upset" about them for the heck of it?
Check this out then guys there is proof enough you just got to find it
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Fw-0wR87okY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFw-0wR87okY
nick: how do you make the logical leap from a creator to a god?
you know the first person to suggest a big bang was a catholic priest right?
@DavidvsGoliath: “there always has been evidence of a creator, just not evidence you're willing to accept...”
There has always been evidence of UFOs, just not evidence you’re willing to accept and it’s every bit as good as the evidence for a creator
Tr6 try telling people that have been completely healed from cancer and other diseases that there isn't a God, see how you go with that. Just cause you don't believe there isn't God doesn't change the fact that God is real.
Well if America wants to stay behind and ignore the benefits that Science has brought us in the bast 400 years, go ahead. the fewer people accept scientific facts in this country. The faster China and Europe will leave the USA behind. But who cares. As long as we have a football game to watch and a prayer show to attend to we're cool.
Poor Alec Baldwin, what'd he do to have CNN drag him into this?
Seems like Baldwin is in the news every 30 days or so for being a bastard to somebody. He must have pissed off the wrong person.
(btw, i said 'every 30 days' so maybe someone could follow up with a 30 Rock joke. Have at it.)
In addition to being an azzhole, Alec is also a believer – perhaps those are the same thing.
End Religion: "They've moderated their religions to survive in this social context. They've watered down their religions, and will continue to do so."
Chad: "The Old Testament (with it's behavioral and dietary restrictions) was brought to an end when Jesus was crucified on the cross."
Holy crap! End Religion is psychic.
if i can just scrape together the money for a compound in Nevada I will be all set to start my new religion. Easy way to make the big bucks.
I'm one of the priviledged few that End has enlightened as to the nature of his End, final religion.
It is in fact – the American Legion.
Go Big Legionairre GO!
Jesus said to follow the law of the old testament ALL OF IT. He also said the most difficult path is the one that leads to heaven. Pretending that you are no longer bound by the law of the Old Testament is the easy path to hell
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."Matthew 5:17-19
"Heaven and earth will disappear before the smallest letter of the Law does." Luke 16:17 (CEV)
What part of “UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH DISAPPEAR” don’t you understand?
Luke 16:17+
hahahah i use that
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Luke 16:17+Deuteronomy 17:2-5+hand a christian a rock and tell them you worship the sun in a crowed street x getting on your knees saying stone me or go to hell= the most awkward moment ever.
use this to when over the crowed, the Christians walk away in shame.
oh the christian might say let he with out sin blah blah, if he does counter with, i though Jesus died for your sins, so aren't you with out sin
For God's will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time [ Hebrews 10:10].
note at this point it is very dangerous, do not attempt Christians are irrational, make sure you have good medical insurance, and a large enough crowd.
This guy should not be on a science committee any more than a taliban member should be on a committee for the well being of women.
Paul Ryan agrees with evolution and even proved it during the debate. He said his daughter was born from a bean.
Courtney Love's daughter is named "Bean".
That's Francis Bean, and she's Kurt Cobain's daughter, too.
For sure.
Wonder if she's done any music; I bet she's got talent.
tallulah13,
Yeah - a Co-Bean!
Good one.
Unfortunately with that combination of parents Francis Bean likely has more genetic markers for substance abuse than for talent.
Do seek help, before it's too late.
An inability to learn how to turn off their bullshlt detectors.
Good one, Manda. Bet it flies far over Atheism's foggy little brain pan.
I know some of you christians believe you can do anything because you think Jesus is going to take the rap for you, but I'm pretty sure that what the bible meant by "accepting christ" was to follow his example. And when I find myself reading this forum and asking "What WOULD Jesus do?" making hostile and insulting comments about people who don't believe in God doesn't come to mind. In fact I think of non-believers who can't be converted, the bible instruct you to walk away. But of me, I'm not christian. And I didn't insult you anyway. Imagine that. You better practice your christianity a little more because you don't seem to be very good at it. In fact I think you missed the message completely.
The fool says in his heart 'there is no God' -Psalms 14:1
For the fool speaks folly, and his heart is busy with iniquity, to practice ungodliness, to utter error concerning the Lord. -Isaiah 32:6
@Atheism is...
A quite old and sometimes effective tactic – declaring that those who do not believe your story are 'fools'. Nobody wants to be considered 'dumb' for not seeing the Emperor's new clothes, or a 'bas.tard' for not seeing the Sultan's new turban, or a 'cuckold' for not being able to see the Miller's gold thumb.
Even Joseph Smith used it when he gathered his 'witnesses' to his golden plates. He told them that only those with 'true faith' would be able to 'see' them.
The ancient, primitive Hebrews who originated those Bible stories were quite adept at manipulative mind-games.
"Just look, Your Majesty, what colors! What a design!" They pointed to the empty looms, each supposing that the others could see the stuff.
"What's this?" thought the Emperor. "I can't see anything. This is terrible!
Am I a fool? Am I unfit to be the Emperor? What a thing to happen to me of all people! – Oh! It's very pretty," he said. "It has my highest approval." And he nodded approbation at the empty loom. Nothing could make him say that he couldn't see anything." – The Emperor's New Clothes
Of old time there was a great king. One day a man came before him and said, "My king, I shall weave a turban such that one born in wedlock will see it, while the ba'stard will see it not." The king marveled and ordered that that weaver should weave that turban; and the weaver received an allowance from the king and tarried a long while. One day he folded up this side and that side of a paper and brought it and laid it before the king and said, "Oh king, I have woven that turban." So the king opened the paper and saw that there was nothing; and all the viziers and nobles who stood there looked on the paper and saw nothing. Then the king said in his heart, "Do you see? I am then a ba'stard"; and he was sad. And he thought, "Now, the remedy is this, that I say it is a goodly turban and admire it, else will I be put to shame before the folk." And he said, "Blessed by God! Oh master, it is a goodly turban, I like it much."
A merchant that thought to deride a miller sitting among company said to him, "Sir, I have heard that every honest miller that tells the truth has a golden thumb."
The miller answered and said it was true.
Then the merchant said, "I pray, let me see your thumb." And when the miller showed his thumb, the merchant said, "I cannot perceive that your thumb is gold. It is the same as other men's thumbs."
The miller answered, and said, "Sir, the truth is that my thumb is gold, but you have no power to see it, for it has the property that he who is a cuckold shall never have power to see it.
Yeah good one Manda.
Btw, how's it been goin for ya since the fall of the Mu Empire?
Last time I saw ya you'd been frozen by Atragon's zero canon.
If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.
Proverbs 29:9
@hawaiiguest
I understand.
I think this stems from the fact that I know and love people who embrace what they see as gift of faith – like my parents. They don't proselytize and it gives them meaning.
I have zero patience for the "believe or burn" crowd and am with you 100% there.
With people who are willing to honestly state their opinions without judgment, I'll debate them – even if the result is circular and inconclusive. They will then at least see, if not digest or choose to comprehend; as cogent a rebuttal as I can muster.
Ooops again – Posted in the wrong spot – reposted on p70.
GOPer "I think this stems from the fact that I know and love people who embrace what they see as gift of faith – like my parents. They don't proselytize and it gives them meaning."
@Chad "do your parents really believe that Jesus Christ is the Son or God?
Now, and view this dispassionately (seriously, I'm not trying to provoke):
– If they do believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and dont proselytize, how much do they really love you if they are willing to let you remain permanently estranged?
– If they dont believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, what kind of faith is it?
so before you judge people, is there such a thing as a person of faith, who doesnt proselytize?
Hilarious. An azzwipe who can't figure out what @ stands for.
Chard, to call you a vegetable would be an insult to broccoli.
I'm personally torn on this. Socially I prefer folks who don't proselytize. They're obviously more tolerable.
However, I feel religious people should feel a duty to uphold what they consider the word of their god. To me this means buying the entire bible as fact. It is a duty in most religions to proselytize, so I kinda have more respect for the nutters who do ramble off scripture, as annoying as it is.
Of course, taking that further, I also think those people should be killing others who work on Sundays, selling their own children into slavery, and all the other wonderful things the books tell believers to do. This is of course would lead them into jail or death pretty quickly, and would make for some instability. But from a logical standpoint, which granted religion doesn't have much of, this makes more sense to me, as horrible as it would be have the faithful causing such mayhem.
They've moderated their religions to survive in this social context. They've watered down their religions, and will continue to do so. All the while they shake enraged fists that they believe to the high heavens in Jeebus even as they ignore or do the opposite of the book of rules. I have no respect for that at all.
"Is there a person of faith who doesn't proselytize?" (comma omitted because the writer of the quote is a dumbazz)
Yes, you twit. You think the only "true Christians" are those who have to smack everyone around with their threats and nonsense. The real deal is the folks who live their faith and let their lives serve as an example instead of letting their fat mouths do the talking. You could learn from them, Chard, except you're too stupid to breathe.
I really have to wonder, Chard, how you came to be so friggin' stupid. Were your parents idiots? Were you deprived of a decent education? Or are you just an anomaly who was born without a brain?
@End Religion "Of course, taking that further, I also think those people should be killing others who work on Sundays, selling their own children into slavery, and all the other wonderful things the books tell believers to do."
@Chad "The Old Testament (with it's behavioral and dietary restrictions) was brought to an end when Jesus was crucified on the cross.
Chad,
I guess that they are just not as holy as you are... and that you will get a much bigger and better golden mansion in the Great Bye-and-Bye.
Chad, "it's" is a contraction for "it is."
"Its" is what's called for in your post. "Its" is a possessive.
Try to wrap your brain around that.
The only thing Chard will "get" is dead and buried, just like everyone and everything else.
"Is there such a thing as a person of faith, who doesn't proselytize?" Just as there are attenuated viruses, probably so. You have to recognize your faith for what it is, Chad. It is a set of ideas that have come together and evolved to be mutually reinforcing and with the ability, as an ensemble, to replicate. You've got something running on you, Chad. Some of us empathize and would like to see you get better.
TTTOO, you are an optimist. The only way the Chard will get better is if he gets silenced.
@OTOH "I guess that they are just not as holy as you are."
@Chad "Its (got it right that time 🙂 ) not an issue of being "holy" or not.
Ask yourself, if you really believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, come to sacrifice for your sins, and if you don't accept that sacrifice, you will remain permanently estranged.. What kind of person are you if you dont tell the people you love?
If you are driving down a highway, and you see some other driver across the median going the wrong way.. Dont you tell them?
"Got it right that time." No, you fvckwit, you fvcked it up yet again. The day you post like anything other than a drop-out from community college, hell will freeze over.
You're beyond stupid, Chard. You're ignorant and proud of it.
Silenced? Come now, all that noise Chad is making is Jesus trying to leave his body. Four-point restraints and something to gnaw on are what's in order.
If your god exists, Chard, why does he allow you to look like such a fvcking idiot that nobody with a brain would take seriously? If your god existed and wanted YOU to campaign for him, why wouldn't he endow you with at least as much intelligence as a sloth so you wouldn't present an example of what to avoid?
@TTTOO, only if the substance presented for the purpose of gnawing is laced with a fast-acting poison.
Cyanide! That's the ticket!
Chad, dealing with a driver going the wrong way is to deal with a physical reality. Trying to convert people to your cult is pushing a load of crap not based on any reality.
@Tom, Tom. the Other One "You once attempted to advance the idea that the Universe was created in the sense that a tropical depression creates a cyclone. You wanted to move on from that seamlessly, you thought, to the Universe was created in the sense that an artist creates a painting."
@Chad "Blatantly not true, never said any such thing.. If you post where I said that, I will mail you $50."
@Tom, Tom, the Other One " Regarding the statement on how you argue for a created Universe. I stand by it."
=======
@Chad "what's this?????
you are trying to twist "You once attempted to advance the idea that the Universe was created in the sense that a tropical depression creates a cyclone"
into
" Regarding the statement on how you argue for a created Universe. I stand by it."
you are one breathtakingly dishonest, disingenuous person (see example above).
I"m done with you.
Chad,
"If you are driving down a highway, and you see some other driver across the median going the wrong way.. Dont you tell them?"
Yes, but that would be a verifiable fact. There is nothing verified or even verifiable about your god or your fantasy afterlife.
(I love the story about the highway electronic sign makers, who put out a flashing one saying, "Zombies Ahead... RUN!!!!)
@OTOH "Yes, but that would be a verifiable fact. There is nothing verified or even verifiable about your god or your fantasy afterlife."
@Chad "hmm.. except for: the origin of the universe, the origin of life, the fine tuning of the universe for the building blocks of life, the fossil record and the empty tomb.
WHAT???!!! The CHARD says he's "done with you"?
Oh, please, let the "you" represent this entire blog! If only!
If there's a god, he'll make Chard disappear instantly from our sight.
If there isn't one, Chard will be back here, yapping away like a Pomeranian on stimulants.
Chard, not a single thing you've listed is proof your sky-daddy exists. You're an idiot.
Oh Chad, so sad. Matt 10:33
Dealing with a driver going the wrong way on a one-way street... goodness, that surely would be an apt description of the Vegetable!
TTTPS-
Apparently Chad isn't proud of all of the positions he's taken. He's, well, sensitive.
Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger.
I truly never suspected that you were afraid, Chad. Is that the hold this thing has over you?
The relationship between anger and fear
Whenever you find yourself angry just ask yourself one question, what am I afraid of?
If you found yourself shouting at another driver then you might find that you were afraid of the damage that was going to happen to your car.
If you found that you are angry at a lazy employee then most probably you will find that you were afraid that your company performs bad or that your own manager evaluates you poorly.
If you were angry at someone who made fun of you then you might find that you were afraid of what people might say about you if you didn't take strong actions.
If you were angry at a Christian who merely related to you his beliefs, then you might find that you were afraid that those beliefs might be true.
"the empty tomb"
of course jesus' tomb would be empty. He never existed!
@Chad,
my parents. Really? I'm not sure how to respond here.
Wouldn't you consider it borderline contemptous for someone here to question the beliefs of non-public people who are:
1. Not here to defend themselves
2. Whose beliefs are none of your damned business.
This: " (seriously, I'm not trying to provoke)"
indicates prima facie evidence that you recognize the moral questionability of even starting this conversation and that you have crossed a line here.
If you want to have a discussion in the abstract, I'd be happy to do so, but don't make it about family – that's pretty damn rude. You are a better man than that.
@Chad,
"Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger."
I too am familiar with the way of the Jedi.
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you.” – From the Gospel according to Yoda (Episode I)
@Chad,
so in the abstract you ask "so before you judge people, is there such a thing as a person of faith, who doesnt proselytize?"
First of all who the hell am I judging with the comments I made? Why do you need to be so friggin snarky all the time?
Second. Yes of course there are people of faith who don't proselytize. They live by example. Their actions speak louder than pious plat'tudes on internet forums or holy rollers that harangue everybody they encounter to "hear Jesus' word" or at least their interpretation of it.
The internet is a wonderful thing. Anyone with a web-browser can read Jesus' words anytime they want to. We don't need the Gideons anymore.
Oh and by the way, I personally think any missionary work for the purpose of conversion is unconsionably wrong. It would be interesting to see if a societal consensus on that notion is growing.
But don't give up, help is on the way!
Yup. It certainly is. Idiots like you will become extinct in the future.
And next week's winning lotto numbers are?
Still waiting Tom....
Extinction lends validation to Natural Selection, a principal tenet of Evolution.
Sucka.
@Rufus,
and still used by dopey Rick Santorum as recently as the Value Voters' Summit. He apparently ignored the recent (fake) RNC memo:
REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
TALKING POINTS MEMORANDUM
--------------------–
Subject: Elitist East Coast intellectualism is no longer to be discussed as a talking point.
Now that Mr. Willard (Mitt) Romney is the presumptive nominees, it has come to our attention that critizing Ivy League educations like Harvard Law degrees has become a liability to Mr. Romney's campaign.
Mr. Romney has a Harvard Law degree, graduating cum laude from the law school, in the top third of his class. Criticism of Barack Obama's magna cum laude graduation from Harvard Law and election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review now seems a risky strategy.
While this may have pleased our Tea Party Caucus constituents during the 2010 mid-term election cycle, use of elitist east coast education as a talking point is now STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.
(reposted back in context from above)
Ooops – Posted in the wrong spot – reposted on p70.
@Rufus,
and still used by dopey Rick Santorum as recently as the Value Voters' Summit. He apparently ignored the recent (fake) RNC memo:
REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
TALKING POINTS MEMORANDUM
--------–
Subject: Elitist East Coast intellectualism is no longer to be discussed as a talking point.
Now that Mr. Willard (Mitt) Romney is the presumptive nominees, it has come to our attention that critizing Ivy League educations like Harvard Law degrees has become a liability to Mr. Romney's campaign.
Mr. Romney has a Harvard Law degree, graduating cum laude from the law school, in the top third of his class. Criticism of Barack Obama's magna cum laude graduation from Harvard Law and election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review now seems a risky strategy.
While this may have pleased our Tea Party Caucus constituents during the 2010 mid-term election cycle, use of elitist east coast education as a talking point is now STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”― Isaac Asimov
It is truly saddening to see people revel in their ignorance and taut it around with pride as a virtue, while they scoff at knowledge. Sheer waste of their limited time they have on this rock and they can not even realize it
Dumb and proud of it. Or as dad used to say, "Fat, dumb, and happy."
@Rufus,
the post above belongs here.
I apparently can't manage the "Reply" button – what with all the cvm laudes in the post.
“All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, the Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell,” – What a moron, Its a scientific fact.
From the Diblert comic strip, "since when did ignorance become a value?"
Since a C student became a president and "decider" who got us into two wars that cost us billions in dollars and thousands in lives.
krhodes .. you're kidding right?!
Sadly, no. He's dead serious. And completely idiotic.
Interesting you would move to the front of the queue instead of the previous location. Am i serious about what?
@kh... you see, special cases of stupidities need to be pointed above others so people can have good laugh at it.. you are it today!
Bingo! Krhodes is pwned.
umm..
"@kh... you see, special cases of stupidities need to be pointed above others so people can have good laugh at it.. you are it today!"
Thats it...that is all you got? I thought atheist were supposed to be smart?
You mean smart enough to figure out that the plural of "atheist" is "atheists"? Guess they have you beat, Krody.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
"You mean smart enough to figure out that the plural of "atheist" is "atheists"? Guess they have you beat, Krody."
What are you...the midget that runs around behind the big guy and says hit'em again? Why don't you run along and play.
Oooh, hit a nerve, huh?
You poor little boy. Did the other kids beat the crap out of you and take your lunch money?
Prayer changes things .
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent truths is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent truths, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
........
Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things stated once again and again and again, over and over, Ad Nauseum,
"Prayer changes things"
Earlier I challenged you to do something positive for humanity by praying to stop the international forced sëx trafficking of an estimatated 800,000 people.
To wit,
I see your prayers to stop the estimated 800,000 people who are forced into sëx traficking across international borders have not worked.
Wait since prayer changes things (your claim) and this horrific practice is still going on, that means you have not been praying to stop this scourge on humanity.
Why won't you pray to stop this repulsive human abuse?
Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
_______________________________________________________________________
[A true believer can ask a mountain to throw itself into the sea, and it will be done. LOL!]
_______________________________________________________________________
Mark 9:23
All things are possible to him who believes.
Luke 1:37:
For with God nothing will be impossible.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it.
Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible.
So there you have it, straight from Jesus in the New Testament in clear, simple, and unequivocal terms.
You are a sincere believer are you not?
So go ahead and pray to stop all the international sëx trade, child abuse, bacterial disease, viral disease, genetic disorders, famine, and wars. Jesus stated, "nothing will be impossible"; So do it!
Or perhaps you do not pray to end these maladies is because your believe is not adequate?
_________________
So pray for some imagination.
Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!~..
As a medical doctor, it is so embarassing to read Dr. Broun's comments. It is people like him that are making us the laughing stock of the developed word. Shame on you Dr. Broun!
@fred
I am happy that you have had a personal epiphany , with god/ jesus, if it works for you, salute. If I choose to take my moral code, a bit here a bit there and obey the laws of the land that is my epiphany without the need of a god. Peace.